Is range the only issue in gas vs. electric?

[rodie40]

The thing I see most discussed is the range of gas vs. electric. What about reliability? I see lots of posts about electric carts losing their charge, new batteries having to be replaced for unknown reasons, batteries "boiling over", problems filling batteries, etc. Are there similar or other issues with gas besides the smell?

[Ooper]

I had a battery problem last year. Batteries were less than a year old and one of them had a problem. The terminals overheated, and melted thru an underseat tray that had some golfing vests and blankets. Burnt holes right thru 2 rarely used pullovers. Nice little 1" round holes directly above the terminals. Batteries were covered under warranty but my outfits weren't!:cus: Lucky the cart didn't catch on fire!

[jchase]

I have had a Club cart electric since 2003. It' s been a great cart except for battery problems. The biggest problem is that I had renters. Some know how to maintain them, some don't. Some think they do and overfill them and boil them over and shorten their life. Two sets in three years. I think it depends on how they are maintained. If you maintain them correctly you should get about five years of life. The new gas carts don't smell as bad as the old ones. I bought a new Yamaha gas in October and love it. All you do is put gas in it every couple of weeks (depending how much you use it). We haven't noticed any smell. I think gas is the way to go since TV is getting so big.

[nkrifats]

I have had a Club cart electric since 2003. It' s been a great cart except for battery problems. The biggest problem is that I had renters. Some know how to maintain them, some don't. Some think they do and overfill them and boil them over and shorten their life. Two sets in three years. I think it depends on how they are maintained. If you maintain them correctly you should get about five years of life. The new gas carts don't smell as bad as the old ones. I bought a new Yamaha gas in October and love it. All you do is put gas in it every couple of weeks (depending how much you use it). We haven't noticed any smell. I think gas is the way to go since TV is getting so big.

I bought a rebuild Yamaha Gas Cart because of the distance and just Gas and Go.

[Barefoot]

The thing I see most discussed is the range of gas vs. electric. What about reliability? I see lots of posts about electric carts losing their charge, new batteries having to be replaced for unknown reasons, batteries "boiling over", problems filling batteries, etc. Are there similar or other issues with gas besides the smell?

I love my electric golf cart! :gc:
It doesn't smell and it is quiet. I can go sixty miles on a charge. I haven't replaced the batteries in four years.

[nitakk]

I, too, have electric and love it. Can't stand the stink of gas carts when you get behind them in the tunnels and it's hard to have a conversation over the noise without yelling. I live in the Marion County end and can get anywere and play 18 no problem. Mother Earth appreciates electric carts!

[nkrifats]

I love my electric golf cart! :gc:
It doesn't smell and it is quiet. I can go sixty miles on a charge. I haven't replaced the batteries in four years.

Would you share what electric cart you have?

[Bill-n-Brillo]

The thing I see most discussed is the range of gas vs. electric. What about reliability? I see lots of posts about electric carts losing their charge, new batteries having to be replaced for unknown reasons, batteries "boiling over", problems filling batteries, etc. Are there similar or other issues with gas besides the smell?

Keep in mind you'll have a single battery on a gas cart. It's the same set-up that you have with a car battery - used for starting and the electrical (headlights, brake lights, turn signals, etc.). It requires the same maintenance you'd give your car battery.

Bill

[redwitch]

One real minus to gas (besides the noise and smell) is that they don't do well on the ethanol in gas today. I was talking to one mechanic who says with the increase in ethanol percentages going up, you can plan on getting a new carb about every 3 years (about $85 for a rebuilt one).

[EdV]

Keep in mind you'll have a single battery on a gas cart. It's the same set-up that you have with a car battery - used for starting and the electrical (headlights, brake lights, turn signals, etc.). It requires the same maintenance you'd give your car battery.

True, but the battery in a gas cart is sealed and requires very little attention other than keeping the terminals clean of corrosion. The batteries in an electric cart are deep discharge heavy duty and because they are not sealed, require careful attention to maintain proper water levels.

[Shimpy]

One real minus to gas (besides the noise and smell) is that they don't do well on the ethanol in gas today. I was talking to one mechanic who says with the increase in ethanol percentages going up, you can plan on getting a new carb about every 3 years (about $85 for a rebuilt one).

Thats a hell of a trade off compared to new batteries @ about $800. The increase in ethanol that was approved was from 10% to 15%, but those pumps that have 15% have to be labeled as there are many vehicles that cannot run on 15%.

[HawkeyeBarb]

You know you're on TOTV when the topic is "Is Range the only issue in gas vs. electric" and the subject is golf carts....not stoves! :icon_wink:

[katezbox]

Thats a hell of a trade off compared to new batteries @ about $800. The increase in ethanol that was approved was from 10% to 15%, but those pumps that have 15% have to be labeled as there are many vehicles that cannot run on 15%.

Shimpy - I believe there are pluses and minuses to both, but consider this...

If you buy an electric, you will have the cost of electricity - to us this seems to be an undetectable blip - plus about $200 per year, escrowed toward a battery replacement (less if you consider the time value of $$).

With gas, you have the cost of the gas itself... usually premium to cut down on the smell... Not sure about mpg, etc. - but it isn't free....

For us - with my allergies/asthma - gas was not an option...

[jchase]

Once you go gas you'll never go back!

:coolsmiley:

[chuckinca]

You know you're on TOTV when the topic is "Is Range the only issue in gas vs. electric" and the subject is golf carts....not stoves! :icon_wink:


:agree: :agree: :agree:

I also thought it was going to be about cooking ranges.



.

[Pturner]

:agree: :agree: :agree:

I also thought it was going to be about cooking ranges.



.

Great minds think alike. I was going to post that, no, in addition to ranges, you can buy washers and dryers in gas. :ohdear:

[Barefoot]

Would you share what electric cart you have?

I have a Columbia Par Car. Quiet, very comfortable, no smell, and 60 miles on a charge. Also, it has an inboard charger so I could recharge at a friend's house, although I've never needed to do that.

I'm sure this must be my imagination, but it seems to recharge itself while I'm driving it!

[nkrifats]

I have a Columbia Par Car. Quiet, very comfortable, no smell, and 60 miles on a charge. Also, it has an inboard charger so I could recharge at a friend's house, although I've never needed to do that.

I'm sure this must be my imagination, but it seems to recharge itself while I'm driving it!

Thanks

[getdul981]

You know you're on TOTV when the topic is "Is Range the only issue in gas vs. electric" and the subject is golf carts....not stoves! :icon_wink:

Great minds think alike. I was going to post that, no, in addition to ranges, you can buy washers and dryers in gas. :ohdear:

Washers???

[redwitch]

Washers???

Well, I have seen a tank that you place over the washer to heat its water separately, so a gas line for that might make sense (but the one I saw was solar powered).

[bluedog103]

With gas, you have the cost of the gas itself... usually premium to cut down on the smell... Not sure about mpg, etc. - but it isn't free....


There really is no reason to use premium fuel in a golf cart. Yamaha, in fact, states "regular gasoline only" in the owner's manual and on a sticker under the seat.
Premium fuel is simply gasoline with additives which increase the octane rating of the fuel in order to reduce pinging, or pre-ignition on higher compression engines.
Save your money and use regular gas in the cart. It'll be just as happy and your wallet will be a little fatter.

[Shimpy]

There really is no reason to use premium fuel in a golf cart. Yamaha, in fact, states "regular gasoline only" in the owner's manual and on a sticker under the seat.
Premium fuel is simply gasoline with additives which increase the octane rating of the fuel in order to reduce pinging, or pre-ignition on higher compression engines.
Save your money and use regular gas in the cart. It'll be just as happy and your wallet will be a little fatter.

Also, most people think "premium" is better and has more power or energy. It is actully the same as far as energy or power is concerned. The only difference between "regular" and "premium" is "premium" has additives to make it slower burning. I've heard of many engines that actually didn't perform as well with "premium". Like bluedog said, save your money.

[jebartle]

Gel batteries....More expensive $1200 BUT and an important BUT they last 8 to 9 years....Friend has a 2002 Gem with original Gel Batteries....Amazing!

[uujudy]

Once you go gas you'll never go back!

:coolsmiley:

And the other way to read this is...
Once you go gas, you'll never go back!

I went gas, and hated it. I'll never go back.
It was like riding a lawnmower, and we had to shout to have any kind of conversation. Nope. I'll never go back.

[Ooper]

Yep... both have good points. If you want nice quiet and odor free cruising but limited distance, then electric is for you. On the other hand, gas will get you where you want all day long without worrying about if your battery is going to get you home or not. I have both... best of both worlds.

[JohnM]

Friend has a 2002 Gem with original Gel Batteries....Amazing!
I have a 2008 GEM with Gel Batteries ... I have noticed a slight (small) decrease in range already ... I hope that I get the battery life your friend did ... replacement is EXPENSIVE ($2000 or for 9 8V about $3,000) ... has your friend seen decreased range?

John

[bill50]

The biggest deciding factor for me was the issue of storing batteries in the hot garage. As snowbirds we are away from the Villages during the hot summer months and the heat kills the batteries when they are stored in the garage. We remove the single battery from our gas cart and store it in a container in the laundry room, add some stabilizer, pump up the tires to the max pressure allowed on the tire sidewall and when we return in the fall the cart is good to go.

[Lynn222]

Love my electric cart because it is quiet and doesn't smell. It has never let me down. I have had no problems...except for a flat tire!

[gary42651]

I have a 2008 reconditioned Yamaha gas cart with a new yesturyear body, with an extended exhaust pipe, I have no oders, and its almost as quiet as an electric when cruising. We use it all the time for everything, I use 5 gals of gas every two weeks. I bought it from The Villages, and it came with a 2 year warranty. We love it and are looking to buy another, now that we sold our 2nd car. Since Dec. we have put about 3000 miles on it with out any problems.

For the record, I have towed 4 electric carts back to their home...

[simpilot]

Leaks, oil and gas are a possibility with a gas cart. I have a Club Car electric and range anxiety was an issue until I added a charge indicator and began making 30+ mile trips around the villages without a problem. I do have a newer set of 48V batteries so range might become a concern in the future.

[DDoug]

Seen some posts about high test gas in carts. Actually your cart will run cooler with high test, lawn mower to.

[rubicon]

I am waiting to buy a hybrid golf cart:D

[Jim Straz]

Leaks, oil and gas are a possibility with a gas cart. I have a Club Car electric and range anxiety was an issue until I added a charge indicator and began making 30+ mile trips around the villages without a problem. I do have a newer set of 48V batteries so range might become a concern in the future.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_battery

[tomkat]

the following is taken from a fact sheet that's available at The Villages golf cart store...believe it or not! :undecided:

Electric

quieter than gas
low emissions
requires no gas to operate
up to 60 miles range per charge


Gas

lighter than an electric cart
no hydrogen fumes from batteries
does not require daily charging
up to 250 miles range on a full tank
less user maintenance
higher resale value


Electric - average monthly operating cost

based on 10 miles per day average
2.5 KWH to charge (new) = 0.29
10 KWH to charge (at end of life) = 1.13
battery replacement (3 years = 816.00) = 22.67
difference in resale value = 1.39
annual maintenance = 4.17
TOTAL MONTHLY OPERATING COST = 49.53


Gas - average monthly operating cost

based on 10 miles per day average
40 mpg @ 4.00 per gallon = 30.00
battery (6 years = 80.00) = 0.11
annual maintenance = 5.39
TOTAL MONTHLY OPERATING COST = 35.50

[Jim Straz]

the following is taken from a fact sheet that's available at The Villages golf cart store...believe it or not! :undecided:

Electric

quieter than gas
low emissions
requires no gas to operate
up to 60 miles range per charge


Gas

lighter than an electric cart
no hydrogen fumes from batteries
does not require daily charging
up to 250 miles range on a full tank
less user maintenance
higher resale value


Electric - average monthly operating cost

based on 10 miles per day average
2.5 KWH to charge (new) = 0.29
10 KWH to charge (at end of life) = 1.13
battery replacement (3 years = 816.00) = 22.67
difference in resale value = 1.39
annual maintenance = 4.17
TOTAL MONTHLY OPERATING COST = 49.53


Gas - average monthly operating cost

based on 10 miles per day average
40 mpg @ 4.00 per gallon = 30.00
battery (6 years = 80.00) = 0.11
annual maintenance = 5.39
TOTAL MONTHLY OPERATING COST = 35.50

Respectfully disagree with the sign they have up. Check out number 3

http://www.ehow.com/how_4818084_between-gas-electric-golf-cart.html

[Larry Wilson]

Agree with Jim. Been in this conversation many times! People who only own gas will say gas. People who own both and keep records have found the electric is cheaper.

[l2ridehd]

Respectfully disagree Larry. I own both and they both have there pro's and con's. However hands down, no guessing, tracked the data, and electric is more expensive by almost 40%. My figures are a little different (both slightly less) then TV, but the difference is about the same.

[tomkat]

I agree...I own both electric and gas and have found that the electric is more expensive.

[Larry Wilson]

You guys might be right. I just know what I hear. Maybe it depends on the amount of miles driven a day.
Had the conversation again tonight with a large group of guys. They average about 100-120 miles a week.( Run all over playing sports) They pay 12-15 dollars a week. About 600 dollars a year. Over 4 years, about 2,400 dollars. Batteries last about 4 years and they cost about 800 dollars. So there is their math. Plus they love that electric is quiet and no smell and no running to gas stations or storing gas.
I think it comes down to how many miles you drive a day and what you like.

[collie1228]

I have to question to the statement: "Electric golf carts are emission free, and therefore better for the environment, which is also one of their biggest selling points". Emissions free? Where does all that electricity come from? Fact (from the U.S. Dept of Energy): "The nation's fleet of over 100 coal plants is responsible for 57 percent of the electricity generated in the U.S., more than any other single electricity fuel source." The statement that electric carts are "emissions free" is simply not accurate, and the facts are more complicated than the simplistic statement that an electric cart is "better for the environment".

[l2ridehd]

Larry, if everyone thinks the cost of gas at $12 to $15 a week and batteries every 4 years at $600 is the cost of electric, I now understand the confusion. Ask them to track ALL the cost. Don't let them ignore the cost of plugging the cart in every night. Everyone says "I don't notice any increase in my electric bill" is the biggest bunch of BS you will ever hear.

There are many added costs to running a cart and you need to consider them all to get an accurate picture. I have 3 years worth of data with carts in rental units. Electric is more expensive. Anyone who says different I want to meet and sell them stocks. I will make a killing.

I really like my electric cart. But not because it costs less. It does not.

[chuckinca]

I have to question to the statement: "Electric golf carts are emission free, and therefore better for the environment, which is also one of their biggest selling points". Emissions free? Where does all that electricity come from? Fact (from the U.S. Dept of Energy): "The nation's fleet of over 100 coal plants is responsible for 57 percent of the electricity generated in the U.S., more than any other single electricity fuel source." The statement that electric carts are "emissions free" is simply not accurate, and the facts are more complicated than the simplistic statement that an electric cart is "better for the environment".


Coal Plant emissions are much much cleaner than then were 40 years ago.


.

[collie1228]

The statement was made that electric carts are "emissions free". Maybe the cart itself is, but the source of its energy is not. I love electric carts, but they may not be more environmentally friendly.

[Jim Straz]

Larry, if everyone thinks the cost of gas at $12 to $15 a week and batteries every 4 years at $600 is the cost of electric, I now understand the confusion. Ask them to track ALL the cost. Don't let them ignore the cost of plugging the cart in every night. Everyone says "I don't notice any increase in my electric bill" is the biggest bunch of BS you will ever hear.

There are many added costs to running a cart and you need to consider them all to get an accurate picture. I have 3 years worth of data with carts in rental units. Electric is more expensive. Anyone who says different I want to meet and sell them stocks. I will make a killing.

I really like my electric cart. But not because it costs less. It does not.
This data is for a Prius car.

Electric .03 per mile-vs-Gas .09-.13 per mile

How much will the electricity cost? The Prius conversion requires around 300 watt hours per mile driven. To determine how much you will spend on electricity, check your electric bill and see how much you pay per kilowatt hour. Multiply that amount by .3 (that's "point three") to determine your electric cost per mile. In 2006, the U.S. the average cost of electricity was $.0986 (that's 9.86 cents) per kilowatt hour so the cost per mile based on this average would be three cents per mile.

How does this compare to the cost of gasoline? Toyota states the combined (city/highway average) MPG for the Prius is 46 miles per gallon. As of October 2007, gasoline was between $2.37 (lowest) and $3.69 (highest) per gallon. This means the Prius gasoline cost per mile is between $.05 and $.08 per mile. If you drive the U.S. "average" car (based on 2007 CAFE fuel economy average of 27.5 miles per gallon) your gasoline cost per mile is between $.09 and $.13.

[Trish Crocker]

Great minds think alike. I was going to post that, no, in addition to ranges, you can buy washers and dryers in gas. :ohdear:

I thought it was about the buffalo "Home, home on the range":rolleyes:

[Bill-n-Brillo]

This data is for a Prius car.

Electric .03 per mile-vs-Gas .09-.13 per mile

How much will the electricity cost? The Prius conversion requires around 300 watt hours per mile driven. To determine how much you will spend on electricity, check your electric bill and see how much you pay per kilowatt hour. Multiply that amount by .3 (that's "point three") to determine your electric cost per mile. In 2006, the U.S. the average cost of electricity was $.0986 (that's 9.86 cents) per kilowatt hour so the cost per mile based on this average would be three cents per mile.

How does this compare to the cost of gasoline? Toyota states the combined (city/highway average) MPG for the Prius is 46 miles per gallon. As of October 2007, gasoline was between $2.37 (lowest) and $3.69 (highest) per gallon. This means the Prius gasoline cost per mile is between $.05 and $.08 per mile. If you drive the U.S. "average" car (based on 2007 CAFE fuel economy average of 27.5 miles per gallon) your gasoline cost per mile is between $.09 and $.13.

Jim, would it be fair to also factor in the life expectancy/cost of a replacement battery pack on the Prius - - - as well as the same for the battery on a conventional car (to help keep things equal)?

Bill :)

[CMANN]

Larry, if everyone thinks the cost of gas at $12 to $15 a week and batteries every 4 years at $600 is the cost of electric, I now understand the confusion. Ask them to track ALL the cost. Don't let them ignore the cost of plugging the cart in every night. Everyone says "I don't notice any increase in my electric bill" is the biggest bunch of BS you will ever hear.

There are many added costs to running a cart and you need to consider them all to get an accurate picture. I have 3 years worth of data with carts in rental units. Electric is more expensive. Anyone who says different I want to meet and sell them stocks. I will make a killing.

I really like my electric cart. But not because it costs less. It does not.

I have been tracking my gas cart since we got it. On avg, 5-6 rounds of golf per week. We use it any time that we do not need to use the car. It is very active. It uses 1.25 gallons per week.

Opinion: Unless you have a personal preferance, buy a gas cart. Less maint. Mor reliable.

[Jim Straz]

Jim, would it be fair to also factor in the life expectancy/cost of a replacement battery pack on the Prius - - - as well as the same for the battery on a conventional car (to help keep things equal)?

Bill :)
The quotes I've got from two sellers is the same; $800 for eight six volt Trojan T105's.
I have a lawn tractor here in the mountains and I regularly fill my 5 gallon gas can up and fuel the mower.

There's an occasional spill, the odor, the noise, the fumes. If I could just plug it into the wall outlet I'd be thrilled. There's always the chance the gas may be outlawed one day. I'm going electric for the convenience, and even if it does cost more I feel safer not handling the gas anymore.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I am waiting to buy a hybrid golf cart:D

Rubicon, here's your next golf cart!!

http://www.ezgo.com/Exceed.html

Interesting - you can also retrofit the kit onto existing carts of the same models noted.

Bill :)

[Jim Straz]

Rubicon, here's your next golf cart!!

http://www.ezgo.com/Exceed.html

Interesting - you can also retrofit the kit onto existing carts of the same models noted.

Bill :)
How about Solar and Wind?

http://www.articleclick.com/Article/Wind-Powered-Cars-are-the-Future-Green-Vehichle/1029244

[ajbrown]

This data is for a Prius car.

Electric .03 per mile-vs-Gas .09-.13 per mile

How much will the electricity cost? The Prius conversion requires around 300 watt hours per mile driven. To determine how much you will spend on electricity, check your electric bill and see how much you pay per kilowatt hour. Multiply that amount by .3 (that's "point three") to determine your electric cost per mile. In 2006, the U.S. the average cost of electricity was $.0986 (that's 9.86 cents) per kilowatt hour so the cost per mile based on this average would be three cents per mile.

How does this compare to the cost of gasoline? Toyota states the combined (city/highway average) MPG for the Prius is 46 miles per gallon. As of October 2007, gasoline was between $2.37 (lowest) and $3.69 (highest) per gallon. This means the Prius gasoline cost per mile is between $.05 and $.08 per mile. If you drive the U.S. "average" car (based on 2007 CAFE fuel economy average of 27.5 miles per gallon) your gasoline cost per mile is between $.09 and $.13.

Check this post out as it relates to cost for electric "fuel". Maybe elevatorman has done more testing since that post.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showpost.php?p=355979&postcount=26

Assuming the numbers from the above post are accurate, it costs $1.74 to charge the cart after 70 miles of usage (10 miles/day) which is 2.5 cents per mile. Seems to match up with everything else I have read. Now factor in $200 - $250 per year for batteries and it starts to become a wash IMO. In fact, take care of the battery pack and make them last 4+ years I think electric starts to move ahead.

I live on the edge of wrong, but not sure what I am missing here?

PS. When I return, I will borrow a kilowatt meter and measure my packs exact charge requirements. One pack is 4 years old (6-8v) and one pack is 2 years old (8-6v).