Residents Parking on Street

[jkomoros]

I thought that we were restricted from parking cars on the street. I just called CDD Compliance, and they said they had no jurisdiction over street parking. I thought I remembered when we bought here that the realtor mentioned that residents should not be routinely parking on the street. Since few people do it, is it a rule and I called the wrong department, or is it just something most neighbors try not to do?

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I believe 'no street parking' was something that used to be the norm.....until it was found to be unenforceable as the streets are all public. I asked the question of a gentleman who works for the VCDD - that's the response I got.

Bill

[skip0358]

That's not the only one that's being overlooked. Trust me. Seems it depends who answers the phone or how they read the rules.

[pqrstar]

Check on this website - District Gov. - Deed Compliance
http://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/deedrestrict.aspx

"Parking: Vehicles are to be kept in owners’ garages or concrete driveways"

[joannej]

Vehicles cannot park for any length of time on the streets of courtyard villas. This is a fact.

[paulandjean]

Yes you can park your car on the street,except courtyard villa.

[redwitch]

Or patio villas, from what I understand.

[Kaybee1]

Parking: Vehicles are to be kept in owners’ garages or concrete driveways. When visiting The Villages facilities and commercial areas golf cart parking is available in designated areas.
This is in the deed restrictions. Our villages look some much nicer when residents abide by the restrictions. I also wish residents would close their garage doors-looks so ugly when they are open.:sigh:

[JohnN]

redwitch, you're mistaken.

Item 12 of the CDD restrictions states: owners shall park in garages or driveways.

when a local neighbor started parking in guest spots (since he has two vehicles and a golf cart and doesn't want to tie up his driveway), we contacted CDD last year.

That gentleman, Nick, contacted the neighbor (twice!) and had him move the vehicles since it was against CDD restrictions.

Now it's happened again, the new guy (Jim) says he only checks to make sure vehicles are parked on asphalt, no matter where.
He doesn't enforce any street parking.

So, the restriction itself hasn't changed, it's against the rules,
but the rules are not enforced now. It's basically a joke.

[redwitch]

So, the question then becomes what can be done if someone does does park in the street in violation of the restrictions? Does TV have the authority to tow the car, fine the homeowner, what? Sounds like someone needs to make sure that TV employees know what the rules actually are and have them enforce them.

Not quite sure how I'm mistaken, since I know you can't park on the street in patio villas and, at least in my area, that rule is strictly enforced -- you park on the street, you are told to move the vehicle or else (of course, we have no clue what the "or else" is).

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I re-checked the deed restrictions for our patio villa in Duval. The document states that "No owner of a Homesite shall park, store, or keep any vehicle except wholly within his driveway or garage". It goes on to mention things about working on a vehicle, no boats/trailers/campers/etc. allowed to park in parking spaces, and so on. But there is nothing specific mentioned - at least in our set of deed restrictions - about street parking.

To me, it seems to be a bit like the satellite antenna debacle of years past. There used to be a set of restrictions about how and where you could/couldn't mount a dish antenna. That all went by the wayside when the VCDD realized it wasn't within their domain to be able to restrict such things.

Regardless, I've sent an e-mail off to our friends at the VCDD to get their feedback on the street parking dealie-do. I'll post their response when I receive it.

Bill :)

[Bogie Shooter]

As most streets are narrow.....why would you want leave your car parked out where some idiot could run into it??

[Barefoot]

The streets are not owned by The Villages, so how could T V ban street parking? Village Watch has confirmed this.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

As most streets are narrow.....why would you want leave your car parked out where some idiot could run into it??

Visitors, guests, and the like. Nothing on a permanent basis.

Bill

[paulandjean]

You can park on the street. except when it is a courtyard villa or patio. They do not give tickets.Our street is wide with ranch homes.Been parking for two years on the street,no problem.

[runnermi]

You could always flatten one of their tires until they get the hint. Kidding!

The condo I live in has the same issue. In the by-laws, it states that there is no overnight parking on the streets. They couldn't enforce it and since our streets are narrow, changed it to one side of the street only. I cannot tell you how many cars have been backed into when parked on the street.

One of my neighbors complained to me that her car had been backed into multiple times. Really? It would take just one time for me and I sure wouldn't park there again.

[Tbugs]

There is nothing illegal about parking your car on the public street. The guest spaces in the villas are 100% different.

Your house has a double driveway. Why park in the street? Only cars are allowed in your driveway or street. No motorhomes, trailers, boats, etc.

Seems kind of silly to park in the street when the car could be in the garage or driveway. Also seems kind of silly to let it bother you so much you call Community Watch.

[Bogie Shooter]

There is nothing illegal about parking your car on the public street. The guest spaces in the villas are 100% different.

Your house has a double driveway. Why park in the street? Only cars are allowed in your driveway or street. No motorhomes, trailers, boats, etc.

Seems kind of silly to park in the street when the car could be in the garage or driveway. Also seems kind of silly to let it bother you so much you call Community Watch.

Your common sense is showing. :)

[batman911]

Are the streets in the Villa neighborhoods public?

[skip0358]

I for one think the community looks so much nicer with the streets empty from vehicles. I think to many it was a selling point. Just my opinion. It's in the Deed Restrictions, why publish it if you can't enforce it. Car leads to truck, to motor home etc. Whats the next thing. One big problem with it is I park in the street the the guy accross the street parks opposite then what. BOOM accident. Just my opinion. I'm sure some won't agree.:spoken:

[JohnN]

you guys can say all you want about what the written rules are,
and perhaps what common sense would be, but.. but..

but Deed Restrictions doesn't enforce the rules on parking on any street, that's a fact. been there done that and given up, park anywhere except on the lawn.

The prior CDD guy (Nick) said most of his calls were for parking.
I think the new administration just figures it's too much ado about too little and gives up on that one.

[bluedog103]

I think the new administration just figures it's too much ado about too little and gives up on that one.
The administration gave up because the streets are publicly owned. They have no authority to regulate parking, except in the villa neighborhoods.
This argument isn't isolated to TV. Up north I've seen this battle many times in suburban neighborhoods. When one neighbor has company the visitors grab a spot wherever they can find one. It gets comical when people come out of their houses hollering and yelling. Sometimes visitors are intimidated and move their cars. Usually they just ignore the screams and threats to call the cops and go on about their business.
These things make life entertaining. They can't be taken seriously.

[jkomoros]

I have neighbors who park on the street just on a rise of a small hill, so when I'm coming down the street, I can't see if another car is coming toward me or not. Now the neighbor on the other side of the street is starting to park THEIR car on the other side of the street. With narrow streets, I think it's a safety problem, let alone the fact that it doesn't look as nice as when all the streets are kept clear. The one car parked on the street usually is parked heading the wrong way, which REALLY ticks me off. It's frustrating when it's in the deed restrictions and yet these aren't being enforced. I have another neighbor who parked a big truck they used for hauling a small trailer in their own driveway. CDD told them that wasn't allowed, and they had to find another place to store their truck. I'm not advocating having big trucks in your driveway, but if CDD can tell you what the heck you can park in your OWN driveway, I don't know why they can't enforce their own restrictions on streets. In my neighborhood in Virginia, it says in our neighborhood covenants that we can't have fences in our front yards. No one does, and it's been that way for the 35 years we've had a house there. I guess I don't understand why street restrictions in the deed in a planned community can't/won't be enforced. The CDD cars cruise through my neighborhood on a regular basis, so it's not as if they have to go out of their way to ask the owners to put their car in their driveway. I live south of 466 and I was told that we had restrictions on what we can put in our yard - yard statues, etc. So far no one I see has done that, but if our private yards are regulated, how is it that public streets can't be regulated in the same way, especially when it's a safety issue?

[Tbugs]

Komoros, Why not just talk with your neighbors about your safety concerns? It is very possible they do not realize it is an issue with you. Face to face communication (in a civil manner, of course) sure works better than siccing the Community Watch on them.

Of course, they are doing nothing illegal.

It does seem strange to me that so, so many Villagers are against policies set forth by the Morse family but when public streets in The Villages have neighbor's cars, it is terrible that nothing is done by the Developer to punish offenders.

[ajbrown]

I am very happy that at this time none of my neighbors park on the street unless they are having company, I agree it takes away from the ambiance in the hood.

I did find some interesting (IMO) reading on the subject. It is in AZ and a case in MO, but makes the point.... In summary it talks about the fact that residents cannot park on the streets even though the streets are public.

Check out paragraphs three and four in the article below.

http://www.carpenterhazlewood.com/resources/enews/2010/deed-restrictions-versus-city-and-county-ordinances-which-one-controls

I am sure there are others documents in the Internet on the subject if you are interested....

[downeaster]

We are trying to apply different rules to different situations.

Parking on public streets is a county issue. If it is a safety issue bring it to the attention of the county.

Parking on your own property is a deed restriction issue.
Basically, deed restrictions prevent you from parking on your lawn, parking RV's for extended periods, etc. It's all there in the deed restrictions document. Some might not agree with some terms of the restrictions but we all signed on at closing.

Someone mentioned open garage doors. Some sub divisions have restrictions preventing open garage doors. As far as I know The Villages has no such restriction. I agree with the poster who thinks they are an eyesore. Although there is no restriction here it is up to us to to practice common sense and common courtesy.

[Bryan]

Downeaster hit the nail on the head. Deed Restrictions are part of your deed and apply to your land, your lot, whatever. They would not apply to a non-resident on public property and oven a resident on public property. Public roads, like most of our streets, come under the county. There are a few (very few) parking restrictions in Lake, Marion and Sumter Counties on the books today, usually concerning how near fire hydrants you can park, etc.

[ajbrown]

I am no lawyer, but sure seems that there is precedent for deed restrictions being used to prevent parking on public streets by residents if TV wished to enforce that.

This paragraph comes directly from the article at http://www.carpenterhazlewood.com/resources/enews/2010/deed-restrictions-versus-city-and-county-ordinances-which-one-controls

While there are no published cases in Arizona about the enforceability of association restrictions against parking on public streets, there is an appellate case on the subject from Missouri.1 The Missouri Court held that the association could control street parking on a publicly dedicated street because owners contractually gave up their right to park on the street. This is consistent with the general view that private covenants, such as deed restrictions, can be more restrictive than ordinances, and that such covenants are enforceable as contracts. Arizona law clearly holds that recorded CC&Rs are contracts. CC&Rs govern and restrict the use of land within a given community and constitute “a contract between the subdivision’s property owners as a whole and the individual lot owners.”2


Some snippets by a Florida attorney from an article here http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=6969

The case went to court and the homeowner argued that the municipality controlled the streets: not the association. The court disagreed. The court found that the association’s parking regulations promoted a neighborhood scheme which was created by the deed restrictions. Furthermore, the homeowner as a matter of contract agreed to additional regulations restricting parking.
and another case from the same article.....

The second case in support of the association’s right to restrict parking is Maryland Estates Homeowner’s Association v. Karen Puckett and Chris Schallert. The case essentially held that a homeowner must abide by all restrictions including restrictions against parking in the street. The homeowner cannot pick and choose which rules he will obey.

PS. :mornincoffee: is better today with TOTV. thanks

[graciegirl]

I am no lawyer, but sure seems that there is precedent for deed restrictions being used to prevent parking on public streets by residents if TV wished to enforce that.

This paragraph comes directly from the article at http://www.carpenterhazlewood.com/resources/enews/2010/deed-restrictions-versus-city-and-county-ordinances-which-one-controls

While there are no published cases in Arizona about the enforceability of association restrictions against parking on public streets, there is an appellate case on the subject from Missouri.1 The Missouri Court held that the association could control street parking on a publicly dedicated street because owners contractually gave up their right to park on the street. This is consistent with the general view that private covenants, such as deed restrictions, can be more restrictive than ordinances, and that such covenants are enforceable as contracts. Arizona law clearly holds that recorded CC&Rs are contracts. CC&Rs govern and restrict the use of land within a given community and constitute “a contract between the subdivision’s property owners as a whole and the individual lot owners.”2


Some snippets from an article here http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=6969

The court found that the association’s parking regulations promoted a neighborhood scheme which was created by the deed restrictions. Furthermore, the homeowner as a matter of contract agreed to additional regulations restricting parking.
and.....

The second case in support of the association’s right to restrict parking is Maryland Estates Homeowner’s Association v. Karen Puckett and Chris Schallert. The case essentially held that a homeowner must abide by all restrictions including restrictions against parking in the street. The homeowner cannot pick and choose which rules he will obey.

PS. :mornincoffee: is better today with TOTV. thanks

Not a person mentioned salt trucks.

[HawkeyeBarb]

I will mention salt trucks, Gracie. I am tired of them driving by my house and am ready for some Spring weather!

[Barefoot]

[ Public roads, like most of our streets, come under the county. There are a few (very few) parking restrictions in Lake, Marion and Sumter Counties on the books today, usually concerning how near fire hydrants you can park, etc.[/QUOTE]

It's that simple .... parking on the street is a County matter and is permitted unless there is a safety issue! I personally feel the ambiance is much nicer if everyone parks in their garage. But of course there may be times you need parking for guests.

By the way, if you have a temporary need for additional parking, you can request a pass from a Rec Center to park in their parking lot for 3 days, or a Regional Rec Center to park for a week.

[Challenger]

Without a county ordinance, I don't believe that parking can be restricted on a public street. In areas where there are non dedicated streets, the contracting parties ,ie property owners subject to restrictions because of covenants etc. can be bound to each other to follow the " rules" but these agreements would have no effect on non contracting parties as to the use of publicly owned property. Usually govt bodies will only restrict street parking for real( not imagined ) safety considerations.
If my statements are correct, it would be difficult to determine what car was or wasn't subject to enforcement action on a public street.

[cabo35]

[ Public roads, like most of our streets, come under the county. There are a few (very few) parking restrictions in Lake, Marion and Sumter Counties on the books today, usually concerning how near fire hydrants you can park, etc.

It's that simple .... parking on the street is a County matter and is permitted unless there is a safety issue! I personally feel the ambiance is much nicer if everyone parks in their garage. But of course there may be times you need parking for guests.

By the way, if you have a temporary need for additional parking, you can request a pass from a Rec Center to park in their parking lot for 3 days, or a Regional Rec Center to park for a week.[/QUOTE]

Without a county ordinance, I don't believe that parking can be restricted on a public street. In areas where there are non dedicated streets, the contracting parties ,ie property owners subject to restrictions because of covenants etc. can be bound to each other to follow the " rules" but these agreements would have no effect on non contracting parties as to the use of publicly owned property. Usually govt bodies will only restrict street parking for real( not imagined ) safety considerations.
If my statements are correct, it would be difficult to determine what car was or wasn't subject to enforcement action on a public street.

Barefoot and Challenger - I believe you nailed it.

An attorney recently told me that at some point in time, most developer roads are turned over to the county. Clouding the issue are some roads North of 466, possibly in Marion County, that were not turned over. My guess is on those roads not turned over, parking restrictions might be enforceable through the covenants. There are very few in this category. This might explain why parking restrictions may still be selectively enforced in certain neighborhoods.

The county can pass what is equivalent to an ordinance to establish restrictions such as; no parking in roadway at anytime, parking on one side only, alternate side parking and time restricted parking ie: No Parking between 12am and 6am. They usually require a notification to the property owners of the street effected and a public hearing to allow residents to express their views. I have seen parking restrictions established based on a petition from a specific neighborhood but never one on a jurisdiction wide basis for obvious reasons.

One potential drawback to petitioning for parking restrictions in your neighborhood would be the mandatory posting of signs defining the restriction. Many believe the required signage is a worse eyesore than parked cars.

[JimJoe]

Check on this website - District Gov. - Deed Compliance
http://www.districtgov.org/departments/community-standards/deedrestrict.aspx

"Parking: Vehicles are to be kept in owners’ garages or concrete driveways"

"Parking: Vehicles are to be kept in owners’ garages or concrete driveways"

I would like to point out that this language does not even mention streets.
The only thing it says is once you get your vehicle in your garage or on your driveway, you can never move it off your property. It also means that in order to be in compliance you had to have your vehicle in your garage or on your driveway before you signed the deed restrictions. Hope you don't have brick pavers because if you do you are stuck in the garage forever. And don't forget that a golf car is a vehicle... so is a bike.
So forget about driving or riding to the square or anywhere else from now on.. because you agreed that vehicles are to be kept in owners garages or concrete driveways.

Who the heck wrote this? ... could it be the same person who did not get a private opinion letter from the irs before they sold tax free municipal bonds?

I have read the deed restrictions. You should too. The content and language varies from village to village.. If you want a laugh or worse, read them carefully, line by line, and ask yourself, what does this say, not what do you "think" they meant.
JJ

[JohnN]

hi bluedog103,
your quote on the parking issue:
"The administration gave up because the streets are publicly owned. They have no authority to regulate parking, except in the villa neighborhoods."
--------------
I'm talking specifically villa neighborhoods since that's what I contacted the CDD guy about, there is no enforcement there - no violation in their view regardless of how the rule reads, just to clarify

[paulandjean]

I park on the steet everyday, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Do not see a problem,maybe because I have a nice car to look at.

[ajbrown]

Barefoot and Challenger - I believe you nailed it.

An attorney recently told me that at some point in time, most developer roads are turned over to the county. Clouding the issue are some roads North of 466, possibly in Marion County, that were not turned over. My guess is on those roads not turned over, parking restrictions might be enforceable through the covenants. There are very few in this category. This might explain why parking restrictions may still be selectively enforced in certain neighborhoods.

The county can pass what is equivalent to an ordinance to establish restrictions such as; no parking in roadway at anytime, parking on one side only, alternate side parking and time restricted parking ie: No Parking between 12am and 6am. They usually require a notification to the property owners of the street effected and a public hearing to allow residents to express their views. I have seen parking restrictions established based on a petition from a specific neighborhood but never one on a jurisdiction wide basis for obvious reasons.

One potential drawback to petitioning for parking restrictions in your neighborhood would be the mandatory posting of signs defining the restriction. Many believe the required signage is a worse eyesore than parked cars.

This is for discussion sake only, I have no issues I am trying solve. I still am not convinced The Villages could not enforce the parking deed restriction if they wanted to, based on the items I cited in post #28. These opinions and cases did not address a parking violation for the county, but rather a "breach of contract" by the homeowner not abiding by the deed restrictions.

I am not advocating TV spend any resources to address this issue, but it seems to me there is precedence to enforce this without the county changing anything.

Am I missing something in the cases I cited that could never apply here?

[Challenger]

The owner of the car being parked can only breech a contract he is a party to.

[JimJoe]

This is for discussion sake only, I have no issues I am trying solve. I still am not convinced The Villages could not enforce the parking deed restriction if they wanted to, based on the items I cited in post #28. These opinions and cases did not address a parking violation for the county, but rather a "breach of contract" by the homeowner not abiding by the deed restrictions.

I am not advocating TV spend any resources to address this issue, but it seems to me there is precedence to enforce this without the county changing anything.

Am I missing something in the cases I cited that could never apply here?

I answered your point. This language is so ridiculously worded no court would enforce it. It does NOT say you cannot park on the street... it says once your name is on the deed you cannot move your car, golf car, bike, or any other vehicle anywhere in the universe if it is not parked in your garage or on your driveways (if you do not have brick pavers) if you have forgotten to park it IN the garage before you signed it.. and then you must keep it there until you get your name off the deed. Do you really think that language is enforceable?
JJ

[Bogie Shooter]

I park on the steet everyday, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Do not see a problem,maybe because I have a nice car to look at.

Other than a nice car, why?

[cabo35]

This is for discussion sake only, I have no issues I am trying solve. I still am not convinced The Villages could not enforce the parking deed restriction if they wanted to, based on the items I cited in post #28. These opinions and cases did not address a parking violation for the county, but rather a "breach of contract" by the homeowner not abiding by the deed restrictions.

I am not advocating TV spend any resources to address this issue, but it seems to me there is precedence to enforce this without the county changing anything.

Am I missing something in the cases I cited that could never apply here?

If we agree that local police have no enforcement power sans an ordinance or specific statute defining a restriction, it would appear the only remedy would be through "breach of contract" litigation......who would initiate the suit? Who would pay for it?

I lifted this from a Florida reference, the Oakdale Reserve Estates Homeowners Association in Tampa.

Enforcing Deed Restrictions

Any violations of laws or ordinances may be enforced by the applicable governmental agency; however, any violations of deed restrictions may only be enforced by those who are beneficiaries of the restrictions. Because the Oakdale Reserve Homeowner Association is voluntary homeowners' association, it has no legal standing in enforcing deed restrictions. As a result, the only enforcement mechanism is for a resident or group of residents within the affected section to take legal action against the offending party. This often pits neighbor against neighbor.

You're research and citations are interesting.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I re-checked the deed restrictions for our patio villa in Duval. The document states that "No owner of a Homesite shall park, store, or keep any vehicle except wholly within his driveway or garage". It goes on to mention things about working on a vehicle, no boats/trailers/campers/etc. allowed to park in parking spaces, and so on. But there is nothing specific mentioned - at least in our set of deed restrictions - about street parking.

To me, it seems to be a bit like the satellite antenna debacle of years past. There used to be a set of restrictions about how and where you could/couldn't mount a dish antenna. That all went by the wayside when the VCDD realized it wasn't within their domain to be able to restrict such things.

Regardless, I've sent an e-mail off to our friends at the VCDD to get their feedback on the street parking dealie-do. I'll post their response when I receive it.

Bill :)

As a follow-up to my prior post noted above, here are excerpts from e-mails I exchanged with Candy Dennis, who is the Deed Compliance Coordinator for the VCDD. Sorry for the delay - it took a couple of days wrapped around the weekend plus a misdirected e-mail to get it all: :)

================================================== =====

Q: My wife and I recently recently purchased a resale Patio Villa and we have a simple question regarding parking. We note in our deed restrictions that "No owner of a Homesite shall park, store, or keep any vehicle except wholly within his driveway or garage". There really is no mention specific to street parking. Yet we hear from others that there is to be no on-street parking in any of The Villages' residential areas. They even go so far as to say that, at least in their particular Village(s), the Community Watch folks will request that they move their parked vehicles from the street.

I asked this same question of a gentleman who works for the VCDD at a recent "Get Acquainted" session at Lake Miona . His response was that it used to be the norm that no street parking was permitted until it was determined to be unenforceable since the streets are all public roads and not under the jurisdiction of the VCDD for this type of thing. He said that anything goes for parking in the streets - trailers, cars, etc. - and that the worst that would/could happen would be getting glared at and hassled by your neighbors. He did clarify, though, that parking in yards, or half in the street/half in the yard, etc. IS something that is unacceptable and enforceable.

Any insights appreciated.

A: In response to your e-mail, the deed compliance department does not have jurisdiction over parking in public streets. Typically, if we receive a complaint, we will advice the caller that the streets are public; however, if the vehicle, trailer, RV, etc is impeding traffic, we then call Community Watch who will send out one of our fire engines to ensure there is room for them to get down the street in case of an emergency.

Parking a vehicle, trailer, RV, etc in the yard, that is a deed restriction which we can pursue through our deed compliance process.

Q: Thanks for the reply. To get further clarification, are ALL the streets in the residential areas within The Villages considered public? Specifically, I'm referring to the streets within the Courtyard Villa and Patio Villa areas. I've heard from some that those streets in particular are privately maintained and thus subject to a different set of parking restrictions.

A: Even though the villa streets are maintained by their particular district, all streets are considered public. The same applies that they cannot impede traffic.

================================================== ======

So in my little world, that pretty much clears up the street parking issue:

- You're permitted to park anything in the streets, even in the villa areas, so long as a fire engine can pass through.

- No parking at all in the yards.

Hope that helps!!

Bill :)

[bargee]

So I would guess that means RV owners can now park their units in the street in front of their homes and not pay the Villages to store the units?

[JimJoe]

So I would guess that means RV owners can now park their units in the street in front of their homes and not pay the Villages to store the units?

I dont think you can just leave your RV because most municipalities have an ordinance that says you cannot park a vehicle on the street for more than 24 hours at a time... of course people in this town go out and drive their car around the block and park it in the same place. I think she meant the villages cannot regulate it because it is a public street but I am guessing the municipality can and do. Check with the county for further restrictions.
JJ

[gemorc]

If the Community Watchman, a representative of the VCDD, calls a fire engine out on a call, who is responsible for the fire run fee? Down here the fire department doesn't do anything for nothing.

[blondie56]

not too sure WHAT the rules are but.........when a pickup truck parks on the street, there isn't much room for my little car to pass by it on the narrow streets inthe neighborhoods, so maybe if they get clipped a couple times, maybe they'll park where they belong!

[Bill-n-Brillo]

not too sure WHAT the rules are but.........when a pickup truck parks on the street, there isn't much room for my little car to pass by it on the narrow streets inthe neighborhoods, so maybe if they get clipped a couple times, maybe they'll park where they belong!

Call Community Watch. If there isn't enough street space to pass "the fire engine test", the truck's owner will have to move it.

Bill

[Talk Host]

In the 30 or so years that I was associated with fire fighting, I can't recall ever being called to bring a fire truck to a parking situation to see if it fits through.

There were a couple of times that, while on fire calls, we made our own path through cars that were blocking our way.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

In the 30 or so years that I was associated with fire fighting, I can't recall ever being called to bring a fire truck to a parking situation to see if it fits through. ......

That wasn't in TV though, was it?

Bill

[skyguy79]

In the 30 or so years that I was associated with fire fighting, I can't recall ever being called to bring a fire truck to a parking situation to see if it fits through.

There were a couple of times that, while on fire calls, we made our own path through cars that were blocking our way.I was a fireman in New York State for only 4.5 years, many-many years ago, but I do remember being taught in either "The Essentials of Firemanship" or "Pump Operator" training I received that if any vehicles are blocking your access to providing emergency services (i.e. like getting at a blocked fire hydrant) that you should plow the obstructing vehicle out of your way! I don't know if it was legal to do so or not, but either way I wouldn't want it on my conscience if when I was driving the fire truck I refused to move a blocking vehicle and someone died or was seriously injured as a possible result of it!

[JimJoe]

I was a fireman in New York State for only 4.5 years, many-many years ago, but I do remember being taught in either "The Essentials of Firemanship" or "Pump Operator" training I received that if any vehicles are blocking your access to providing emergency services (i.e. like getting at a blocked fire hydrant) that you should plow the obstructing vehicle out of your way! I don't know if it was legal to do so or not, but either way I wouldn't want it on my conscience if when I was driving the fire truck I refused to move a blocking vehicle and someone died or was seriously injured as a possible result of it!

Did you plow trains out of your way as well? I doubt it.
JJ

[Vinny]

hi bluedog103,
your quote on the parking issue:
"The administration gave up because the streets are publicly owned. They have no authority to regulate parking, except in the villa neighborhoods."
--------------
I'm talking specifically villa neighborhoods since that's what I contacted the CDD guy about, there is no enforcement there - no violation in their view regardless of how the rule reads, just to clarify

Why would it be any different for the Villas? Are they not also public streets? Regardless of what deed restrictions state, they do not have force of law on public property. There are always cars parked on the street in my Villa.

Personally I would prefer it if all homes were the same color, size and model. Makes for nice ambiance. :jester:

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Vinny - See post #42

Bill

[Talk Host]

I was a fireman in New York State for only 4.5 years, many-many years ago, but I do remember being taught in either "The Essentials of Firemanship" or "Pump Operator" training I received that if any vehicles are blocking your access to providing emergency services (i.e. like getting at a blocked fire hydrant) that you should plow the obstructing vehicle out of your way! I don't know if it was legal to do so or not, but either way I wouldn't want it on my conscience if when I was driving the fire truck I refused to move a blocking vehicle and someone died or was seriously injured as a possible result of it!


When the fire alarm sounds, the fire chief is the supreme commander of law enforcement regarding anything that has to do with the fire. If he said, "move it," We said "aye aye sir."

[skyguy79]

Did you plow trains out of your way as well? I doubt it. http://th209.photobucket.com/albums/bb287/Lancastrian-2007/th_smileytrain.gif (http://media.photobucket.com/image/train%20smiley/Lancastrian-2007/smileytrain.gif?o=5)
Two answers:
1) We had no amusement parks with choo-choo trains in our district, so we never had to find out!
2) You can't stop a Trane!

http://www.jon-n-bevliles.net/RAILROAD/rrxing.gif

[Vinny]

Vinny - See post #42

Bill

Love to be proved right. I have a great situation in that I am in a corner villa on a short dead end street. I can fit 3 or 4 cars along my wall on that street without blocking anyone. :angel:

[blondie56]

:BigApplause:Call Community Watch. If there isn't enough street space to pass "the fire engine test", the truck's owner will have to move it.

Bill

Thanks for response Bill, I'll keep it in mind the next time!

[Midge538]

I asked a Sumter County deputy if it is illegal to park on the street here in TV. He said yes .... and cited the statute. He said that routinely they do not do so but 'if a neighbor ... or another party .. complains they may be forced to do so or may chose to do so.'

[paulandjean]

You can park your car on the street.They will not give you a ticket. Been parking my car on the street for over two and a half years. do not understand the problem with this. It is a street,where cars drive.

[JimJoe]

I asked a Sumter County deputy if it is illegal to park on the street here in TV. He said yes .... and cited the statute. He said that routinely they do not do so but 'if a neighbor ... or another party .. complains they may be forced to do so or may chose to do so.'

I would love to read this "statute" because I do not believe it exists. There is no way sumter county has a law that says you cannot park on a public street. Please give us the statute he cited. Thanks.
JJ

[JohnN]

Vinny,
Someone asked if I was talking villas, so I clarified.

The Deed Restriction as quoted, rule 12, says owners are to park in their garage or driveway.

I've no problem with short term parking when needed, but to own several vehicles that overflow your garage and so you park 'em in the street is trashy, that's all. Just my opinion.

[Challenger]

There have been a lot of fussy opinions and erroneous posts on the parking issue. Isn't there an attorney poster who understands contract law, deed restrictiions and covenants and county ordinances who can help clear this up?

I would even welcome the Developers legal guys if they would offer valid clarification:shrug:

[Bill-n-Brillo]

There have been a lot of fussy opinions and erroneous posts on the parking issue. Isn't there an attorney poster who understands contract law, deed restrictiions and covenants and county ordinances who can help clear this up?

I would even welcome the Developers legal guys if they would offer valid clarification:shrug:

Post #42 references feedback directly from the VCDD about what they enforce.

Bill

[paulandjean]

After two and half years parking in front of my house, I can tell you that you are allowed to park in the street.How would you think otherwise. Do you know someone who received a ticket or warning. I do not. I would talk to police and community watch in the street leaning against my car.They do not give tickets period.

[redwitch]

Sumyer County Ord. No. 96-23, § 9, 12-16-96; Ord. No. 2003-1, 1-14-03, states:

"c. Parking. Notwithstanding the provisions of the Green Book, on-street parking is not allowed except when specifically approved by the commission."

The "Green Book" pertains to building requirements for developers, including street/road dimensions, etc.

So, given this Ordinance, unless Sumter County has approved parking for an area/street, I'd say parking is not allowed on the street and it would be up to the County Deputy Sheriffs to enforce parking, should they so desire. Personally, I don't like taking the risk of being towed, so I wouldn't park on the street. You never know when a neighbor might decide to call about it or when a Deputy Sheriff should decide to act upon it.

[Challenger]

Code of Ordinance
County of
Sumter, Florida

Chapter 17 Motor Vehicles and Traffic
Atricle II Stopping, Standing, and Parking
Division 1 Sumter County Parking Ordinance

Sec 0-29
(a) within the unincorporated areas of Sumter County Florida, except where necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with law or other directions of the sheriff or his deputy or official traffic control device, no person shall:

(3) park a vehicle whether occupied or not except temporarily for the purposes of and while actually engaged in loading and unloading merchandise or passengers:

b. in any county road, street or right-of-way in the unincorporated areas of Sumter county.
-------------------------------------------------

Seems a pretty clear indication that parking on county roads in unincorporated areas is not generally allowed . This incorporated with deed restrictionsand covenants, would seem to relate clearly to most of TV area. Now if we want more strict compliance, how do we achieve it?

[JimJoe]

Sumyer County Ord. No. 96-23, § 9, 12-16-96; Ord. No. 2003-1, 1-14-03, states:

"c. Parking. Notwithstanding the provisions of the Green Book, on-street parking is not allowed except when specifically approved by the commission."

The "Green Book" pertains to building requirements for developers, including street/road dimensions, etc.

So, given this Ordinance, unless Sumter County has approved parking for an area/street, I'd say parking is not allowed on the street and it would be up to the County Deputy Sheriffs to enforce parking, should they so desire. Personally, I don't like taking the risk of being towed, so I wouldn't park on the street. You never know when a neighbor might decide to call about it or when a Deputy Sheriff should decide to act upon it.

I question that because if you go here:
http://library4.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=12044&doc_action=whatsnew
I think You can read all of the Sumter County Ordinances, and if you search for Parking... it will take you to Article 2
ARTICLE II. STOPPING, STANDING AND PARKING*
and I do not see anywhere in there where you cannot park on the street; in fact it lists the circumstances where you cannot park and in fact tells you how you can legally park by being within 12 inches of the curb.
"Except as otherwise provided in this division, every vehicle stopped or parked upon a two-way street or highway shall be so stopped or parked with the right-hand wheels parallel to and within twelve (12) inches of the right-hand curb or edge of the street or highway."
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks. JJ

[Challenger]

Code of Ordinance
County of
Sumter, Florida

Chapter 17 Motor Vehicles and Traffic
Atricle II Stopping, Standing, and Parking
Division 1 Sumter County Parking Ordinance

Sec 0-29
(a) within the unincorporated areas of Sumter County Florida, except where necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with law or other directions of the sheriff or his deputy or official traffic control device, no person shall:

(3) park a vehicle whether occupied or not except temporarily for the purposes of and while actually engaged in loading and unloading merchandise or passengers:

b. in any county road, street or right-of-way in the unincorporated areas of Sumter county.
-------------------------------------------------

Seems a pretty clear indication that parking on county roads in unincorporated areas is not generally allowed . This incorporated with deed restrictionsand covenants, would seem to relate clearly to most of TV area. Now if we want more strict compliance, how do we achieve it?

bump

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Code of Ordinance
County of
Sumter, Florida

Chapter 17 Motor Vehicles and Traffic
Atricle II Stopping, Standing, and Parking
Division 1 Sumter County Parking Ordinance

Sec 0-29
(a) within the unincorporated areas of Sumter County Florida, except where necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with law or other directions of the sheriff or his deputy or official traffic control device, no person shall:

(3) park a vehicle whether occupied or not except temporarily for the purposes of and while actually engaged in loading and unloading merchandise or passengers:

b. in any county road, street or right-of-way in the unincorporated areas of Sumter county.
-------------------------------------------------

Seems a pretty clear indication that parking on county roads in unincorporated areas is not generally allowed . This incorporated with deed restrictionsand covenants, would seem to relate clearly to most of TV area. Now if we want more strict compliance, how do we achieve it?

Challenger -

I wonder if The Villages is considered to be an incorporated area or is it considered unincorporated?

Bill

[Challenger]

There is no incorporated municipal govt as far as I know for any part of TV . State laws usually use incorporated to refer to municipal goverments.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

There is no incorporated municipal govt as far as I know for any part of TV . State laws usually use incorporated to refer to municipal goverments.

That helps - thanks!

Bill

[skip0358]

Just curious. If you have a garage which we all do, if you have a driveway which we all do, why the hell would you want to park in the road where the cars drive, golf carts drive, bikes ride and joggers & walkers are??? My original question was regarding a 30 something foot Motor home which parks more the 24 hours in the road at the end of someone elses driveway on a bend in the road. Deed compliance says it's no problem as long as the Fire truck gets by. I too was a fireman for 42 years and drove. I doubt the Fire Truck, especially T51 could get by.

[Kaybee1]

I'm very reluctant to continue this thread but here I go. One of the many reasons we moved to TV was because it is so beautiful. We have lived in areas where there were no restrictions on parking any type of vehicle on the streets. Needless to say, we always seemed to have a next door neighbor with a commercial plumber's truck or a pick up truck filled with construction material, who parked in front of our property. So if there are no restrictions on parking in TV, maybe we all should just park in front of our homes! Just imagine how your street would look if everyone was dumb enough to park their vehicles on the street. I don't need deed restrictions to make me park in my garage because I have pride in how my neighborhood looks and I also don't want my car fading in the Florida sun. Let's keep TV streets as beautiful as they can be.:kiss:

[Challenger]

or move to Lake Weir

[Bob45]

Deed compliance says it's no problem as long as the Fire truck gets by. I too was a fireman for 42 years and drove. I doubt the Fire Truck, especially T51 could get by.

Skip,
Just curious, How wide is the typical fire truck? My motor home is, I think 8 1/2 ft wide. That doesn't leave much room for other vehicles to go around on the narrow streets here.
Thanks,
Bob

[paulandjean]

Parking on the street is Dumb?That is what streets are for. Do not think it takes anything away from the village image. This way I will aways have new driveway cement. This way I am not driving over my new painted driveway. Still cannot figure out why someone would paint the driveway,Or I am not parking a 1000 degree car in my house. Talk about accident ready to happen. As far as cart drivers,joggers,walkers,no one said life would be easy.

[skip0358]

Skip,
Just curious, How wide is the typical fire truck? My motor home is, I think 8 1/2 ft wide. That doesn't leave much room for other vehicles to go around on the narrow streets here.
Thanks,
Bob

Pierce ladder truck was 9 1/2' wide mirror to mirror and 39' long. Next time my neighbor parks maybe we need T51 to come by. I think it'll be on my neighbor lawn to pass. If our Deed Restrictions aren't enforceable why the heck have them.

[graciegirl]

This kinda sounds like a tempest in a teapot. I have looked up and down my street since this thread started days ago and not ONE person has parked there...except for the yard crews and they are in and out.

If this is a real problem, me and the girls could come over and help.

We are scary. I am trying to get Pooh to join us, but she is not much for beating up people.

[redwitch]

Gracie, should we start a wet noodle brigade? We could carry our strainer of noodles and just beat up every car we see parked on the street. That should make it move!

[graciegirl]

Gracie, should we start a wet noodle brigade? We could carry our strainer of noodles and just beat up every car we see parked on the street. That should make it move!

Redwitch. shhhhh. You NEVER, never divulge just HOW you are gonna harm someone.

[BobKat1]

This kinda sounds like a tempest in a teapot. I have looked up and down my street since this thread started days ago and not ONE person has parked there...except for the yard crews and they are in and out.

If this is a real problem, me and the girls could come over and help.

We are scary. I am trying to get Pooh to join us, but she is not much for beating up people.

I haven't heard that analogy used in a while, but it sure is appropriate.:)

[whartonjelly]

The patio villas garage doors being open is what is stopping me from thinking about buying one. We stayed in a turnkey beautiful one but when looking out the garage doors of others were open and not a pleasing view. Not all week but a couple of the days. Otherwise a very lovely neighborhood.

[Tbugs]

I think it is just wonderful that all of you have the time to research all of these regulations in the county laws and in the deed restrictions - and still have time to enjoy all the great things in The Villages.

Personally, I would rather play golf than do all that researching over these non-issues that really do not hurt anyone - but each to their own.

I have a double garage and a golf car garage so it is no problem for me. As far as I know, all houses in The Villages have a driveway and a garage. Why not just park there?

[ceejay]

Gee...I hate to admit it, but we keep our garage door open at all times...from morning till night...to allow a beautiful breeze cool our garage and home.

And if I see a bunch of cars parked on the street, I think that someone is having a party and I'm glad for them...party on, people!

I also hate to admit that I was one of those who parked on the street for over a year when I had my clunker that leaked oil and I couldn't afford to have it fixed. Now, I have a new clunker that does not leak oil so I keep it in our driveway.

Go ahead...throw tomatoes :throwtomatoes::throwtomatoes::throwtomatoes:

PS I never got a warning, a telephone call or a ticket!

[Kaybee1]

Parking on the street is Dumb?That is what streets are for. Do not think it takes anything away from the village image. This way I will aways have new driveway cement. This way I am not driving over my new painted driveway. Still cannot figure out why someone would paint the driveway,Or I am not parking a 1000 degree car in my house. Talk about accident ready to happen. As far as cart drivers,joggers,walkers,no one said life would be easy.

My bad, thought streets were for driving cars and garages were for parking cars. I stand corrected. Gotta go play golf but before I do I will park my 1,000 degree car on the street. Thanks for the info.:icon_wink:

[Challenger]

Woe is me. stuck up here in Md with nasty weather and too much time to read TOTV rather than playing golf like Gracie and friends.

My previous posts with citataions from the Sumter County code were meant to respond to several confused posters who did seem to have some issues with inconsiderate neighbors and their parking actions. See previous post by someone parking their "oil leaking, clunker" in the street for an extended time and bragging to us all.

Fortunately , snowbirds that we are with a CYV in Jacaranda Island, we:D have had no issues with on strret parking by our generally most considerate neighbors.

Boy, I want to play some golf.

[Jim 9922]

Nine pages of this stuff. Now I know why I don't retire.
I can hardly wait to see a thread on the "Troll Patrols" in the new areas.

[skip0358]

It was chilly this AM what else were we to do?

[BUC]

This is the kind of stuff that really bugs me. Who cares enjoy life and quite worrying about what everyone else does or doesn't do to your liking. The one thing I want to avoid above ALL else is to be surrounded by alot of busy bodies with nothing better to do than stick there nose in my business. It's the same with fences let people alone it doesn't affect you get a life. You have a chance to live in the best place in the world and a few of you worry warts spend your time bothering people and conplaining about ( dogs, kids, cars, golfcarts, fences, noise, crowds, grass, etc) I could have gone on. You few folks not only make yourself miserable but other people to, sorry I just had to vent again, it's good for my blood presure. Love ya'll

[cabo35]

It's hard to imagine the criticism :rant-rave: directed at those who enjoy participating in threads like this. As you age, you not only need physical exercise but cerebral exercise. Researching and creative composing is a wonderful way to achieve that exercise. It should be encouraged ..... not discouraged.

I play golf and softball, deep sea fish, fly a Cessna :plane: with my wife (she's a pilot) on occasion, read books, ride a Harley and still find time to enjoy the cerebral exercise that TOTV offers. Further, there have been down times because of weather, illness or waiting for a contractor,when posting here offers an opportunity to pleasantly and creatively pass time. I imagine some posters may have transient infirmities and participation on TOTV during idol time is appreciated.

Funny thing though, the grumps who rain on the parade of others chilout, still have time to post here anyway. Good for them. Even criticism is a form of participation and evidence that threads are being read. Here's to the grumps :beer3:

To the researchers and posters :BigApplause: thank you and keep on posting.

Just my opinion....now I'm going out to have fun. :gc: See......you can do both.

P.S. I've been trying for so long to find an opportunity to use that neat golf cart icon.:D

[Barefoot]

This is the kind of stuff that really bugs me. Who cares enjoy life and quite worrying about what everyone else does or doesn't do to your liking. The one thing I want to avoid above ALL else is to be surrounded by alot of busy bodies with nothing better to do than stick there nose in my business. It's the same with fences let people alone it doesn't affect you get a life. You have a chance to live in the best place in the world and a few of you worry warts spend your time bothering people and conplaining about ( dogs, kids, cars, golfcarts, fences, noise, crowds, grass, etc) I could have gone on. You few folks not only make yourself miserable but other people to, sorry I just had to vent again, it's good for my blood presure. Love ya'll

TOTV is a form of recreation for a lot of posters. I have personally learned a ton of information on Village issues, contractors to use, restaurants, medical, etc.

Buc, I hate to see you so irritated. K-9 posts some wonderful animal threads. Perhaps they'll cheer you up.

[ceejay]

See previous post by someone parking their "oil leaking, clunker" in the street for an extended time and bragging to us all.


Dear Challenger,

I am deeply offended that you feel I was "bragging" about parking my "clunker" in the street.

I was just trying to point out that sometimes there is a reason why people have to park in the street or why they have their garage doors open.

Luckily, I have kind and considerate neighbors who understood my situation and were fine with my car where it was. They were also sad for me when my car died.

I have to close now in order to go to Church. I will pray for you and your nasty weather in Maryland.

CJ

[graciegirl]

TOTV is a form of recreation for a lot of posters. I have personally learned a ton of information on Village issues, contractors to use, restaurants, medical, etc.

Buc, I hate to see you so irritated. K-9 posts some wonderful animal threads. Perhaps they'll cheer you up.

Buc. I was so sad until I got to the Love Y'all.

You are right of course. We do have TOO much time on our hands. And Bare is right too, it is a little of back fence chatting and anonymous run-the-world stuff too. Guilty of both myself.

I love you too Buc.