Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall

[Togetherwecare]

This is a story of a failed attempt to honor our veterans in The Villages, as well as current active local participants serving in the Army Reserve and National Guard, and the children and grandchildren of Villages residents. It included bringing the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall (“The Wall”) to the Villages. It is a case of something that should have been a “No Brainer” being rejected for no apparent reason by Mr. Morse.

Background
In October,2010 two Villages residents who were members of The Community Improvement Council (“CIC”) had a vision. The vision was a celebrationto honor our veterans and those currently on active duty. It was called The Villages Veterans Celebration (“TVVC”), a series of events, which had never been presented before at The Villages. Yes, on every solemn occassion, ie. Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and other fitting days a moving and fitting ceremony has been held at the Developer donated Veterans Memorial Park. Yet it did not seem enough.

At the same time it was found out that The Vietnam Veterans of America, Chapter #1036 was trying to bring the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall to our great Villages, but they were finding the cost to be prohibitive. It was thought that it would be a great Veterans Celebration to bring the two together. What could be a more appropriate way to honor our Veterans?

Because of the number of Veterans and the proposed size of the event and the size of “The Wall” it was felt that the Polo Field (site of the Golf fest, site of the Christmas Parade, site of the Hoedown ,site of the Horse Pull, etc.) would be the largest, safest and most secure location for this event. A location where people could park their cars or Golf Carts and safely walk to the events, where “The Wall” could be available 24-hours a day for visitation, where Veterans could march proudly in safety, where handicapped Veterans could safely participate, where spectators in the thousands could watch under some protection from the sun, and celebrate our Veterans with parades, exhibits, speeches, food, and music. An event where everyone could safely and respectfully walk to “The Wall” to honor those would fell in the service of our country all in a quiet and serene area away from traffic, honking horns, and trucks.

Because of the proposed participation of area Veterans groups, as well as those, who support our troops the event had a motto – “Together We Care”.

Plans for the Villages Veterans Celebration
With this as a back drop a request was sent to the named contact at the Polo Field to discuss availability, dates, costs, etc. The Villages Entertainment Department (“Entertainment Department”) responded.

Several meetings were set-up with the “Entertainment Department”. They originally were enthuiastically in favor of both “TVVC” and “The Wall”. They proposed to help fund “The Wall” with proceeds from a charity concert to be held in the weeks prior to the event; they proposed a separate “named” concert at the Polo Field to kick off the celebration and a dramatic night-time unveiling of “The Wall” bathed in lights. They checked the Polo Field calendar and found out that someone at The Villages Sales Office had reserved the Polo Field during one of the proposed days for a High School Graduation Party and offered to check whether the party was on or could be moved. They offered to reduce the price for the rental of the Polo Field to $1,500 per day. They offered to make the arrangements with “The Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall” (“The Vendor”) and place a down payment with them. The Entertainment Department offered to pay for a mediation park to be located in front of “The Wall” and equip it with benches, and plants. With this cooperation and excitement in hand the following organizations were contacted and formed a steering committee.
The participating organizations in the TVVC are:
All Military Veterans Group of the Villages
Colonel Phillip C. Delong #1267 Marine Corps League
Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 10126 (The Villages)
Veterans of Foreign Wars Post 8083 (Belleview)
Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 1036 (The Villages)
Retired Military Family Group
American Legion Post 347 (Lady Lake)
Tri-County Woman’s Veterans
Korean War Veterans Association
Disabled American Veterans (DAV)
U.S. Submarine Veterans
Veterans of Underage Military Service
Sumter County Veterans Service
Military Retiree Activities Office
Military Officers Association of America (MOAA)
AMVETS 2006 – Guardians of Freedom
The Villages Memorial Park Honor Guard
Wounded Warriors
World Wide Airborne Club
Military Order of the Purple Heart (MOPH)
North Lake Detachment of Marine Corps League
As well as Operation Shoebox and USA Cares
No one had brought all these organizations together before. No one even had a list of who, what or where these organizations existed. But Together We Care and care they did.

A Steering Committee was formed that was led by The CIC; a 20 page planning document was developed as a basis for going forward; meetings were held. The Entertainment Department was invited to attend, participate, and provide assistance. However, their enthusiasm was beginning to wane. They did not attend.

The celebration soon grew to include the following events:
- a one-day Villages Veterans Celebration to include a “military”
parade, marching bands, a stage with music from local groups, sponsor
and participating group tents, displays, food vendors, flea market,
speeches, fly-over from vintage planes and just one fun all around day
- a four-day display of the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall, with daily
opening and closing ceremonies, meditation music from local Villages
Groups
- Speeches from 10 retired Generals, many were Villages Residents
- A dinner/dance at Savannah Center
- Displays from the Florida Military Order of the Purple Heart and the
Villages Retired Military Family Group
- A separate “Shadow Walk” sponsored by USA Cares - a Candle light
procession to honor our fallen with a separate parade prior to it with
participation from non-military Villages groups
- A separate ceremony to honor our veterans on June 6 – D-Day
- A request was made inviting the participation of the 82nd Airborne
Chorus

A truly fantastic series of events they involved the cooperation of many, many Villages groups both retired and active military, and non-military. The event was scheduled for a period of June 2 – June 7, 2011.

Most events were FREE. Only the Dinner/Dance would be a fund raiser. Additional funding would come from donations, sponsorships, the Shadow Walk, and program advertising.

The Developer Has Second Thoughts
BUT something was missing. The Mark Morse’s Organizations were hesitating to provide any form of support. First it was proposed that a portion of any money raised would go to Moffitt Center. The Veterans Groups rejected that idea because they felt that there were other worthy causes to help present and future veterans that could use any proceeds or excess donations.

The requirements of “The Wall” required a flat area or lacking that, a platform would be required to be built to mount “The Wall” and keep it level. There were concerns by The Developer that there might be damage to the Polo Field.

The Villages tried to move the site to an area by the Mulberry Plaza near the VA Clinic. Their rational was to encourage people to come to Mulberry and help the merchants out. They felt that this site had the advantage of the use of the VA Clinic parking lot when it was closed. However, this location had major drawbacks- it was off of an active Route 42; there was an active parking lot; streets would have to be closed off for the parade; there was no shade for spectators during the June heat, people attending the parade and people wishing to shop would share the same space and parking, security for “The Wall” and participating tents and other facilities would have to be extensive, a fly-over might cause accidents, people would have to walk down Mulberry Lane, they were bushes that blocked one-side of the parade. People parking in the shopping center or VA Clinic would have to cross an active road.So this proposed site was rejected as just not adequate for a celebration.
Attempts for Approval for Use of the Polo Field
To address the Developer’s concerns several proposals were offered including moving the site of “The Wall” to a location within the Polo Field that had been used in the past for parking. The parade and celebration would continue on or near the main Polo Field.

Copies of the specifications and installation instructions for this Wall were given to the Entertainment Department for forwarding to the Villages Construction Department (“Construction Department”) for their advice and assistance in planning and construction (certainly an organization that has coordinated the building of 50,000 homes, 8 shopping centers, a hospital, 2 Town squares, several artificial lakes could help us install this Wall without damage to the Polo Field).

A request was made to the Entertainment Department to schedule a meet with the various Villages Departments including them, Construction, Public Safety and others to review the plans and solicit assistance.

During this time no paper work was returned to the Vendor, no down payment was made, no date was secured. Finally one member of The Steering Committee sent his own $1,000 check to reserve “The Wall”.

During this time the “Entertainment Department” which was so enthusiastic in the beginning did the following:
- Did not reserve “The Wall” or forward a down-payment
- Did not arrange for a fund raising concert
- Did not arrange for a “named” concert
- Did not arrange a meeting with other Villages Organizations
including Construction or whomever was throwing the
roadblocks in
- Could not get “Approval” for use of the Polo Field
The Entertainment Department finally responded that “The Wall” would be 200 feet deep and would cause damage that would require $21,000 in sod replacement. The Entertainment Department then proposed use of Colony Plaza. This area had the same problems as Mulberry Plaza only it did not have the use of the VA Clinic but it had an active McDonalds sitting right in the middle of the proposed site. The site also had an active shopping center, had only one road shared by cars and Golf Carts, little room for spectators, and lack of a convenient location for parade participants to disperse or get picked up.
A meeting was held with The Vendor and representatives of the Villages Commercial Property Management (“CPM”) to review the location. They asked questions directly to The Vendor regarding the wall and its potential damage to the area.

They were, told again that the Wall would sit on a 2 inch by 4 inch platform. The platform would be ABOVE ground on 2inch by 4 inch stakes driven 6 inches into the ground and placed every 3 feet for a distance of 150 feet in one direction and 150 feet in another. That with one good rainfall the ground would close up the holes (remember that the event would take place in June and Polo would not start until the Fall).

Subsequently CPM rejected this location with The Villages standard answer of “liability” concerns (remember the Buffalo). Since this had the same pitfalls as Mulberry Plaza then obviously that location would have been rejected for the same reason.

A series of e-mails had been sent to Barbara Vesco – Entertainment, Sonny Resmundo – Construction, and Mackie Mccabe – Hospitality requesting a meeting to review the installation and construction details associated with “The Wall” to make sure everyone understood the specifications and show them that there would be no damage to the Polo Field. NO RESPONSE.

The Villages Entertainment Department, The Villages Construction Department were again asked to relook at “The Walls” installation and speak directly to The Vendor so they would fully and completely understand that there would not be any damage to the Polo Field and that there would be no need for $21,000 for sod replacement, and again explaining that the Polo Field was the only viable location for this event. NO RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Death of The Villages Veterans Celebration and Display of The Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall
Since there was NO approval for use of the Polo Field, Mulberry Plaza, Colony Plaza or any other site within The Villages or any other alternate proposal forthcoming from The Developer or any of his organizations, The Villages Veterans Celebration has been cancelled. The Wall is not coming to the Villages.

Since it is quite obvious that nothing goes on within the Developers Organization without Mark Morse knowing about it then it is quite obvious that Mark Morse killed the Veterans Parade and Celebration and The Wall.

Was it because his employees failed to give him the full story, or because he wasn’t making any money from the Veterans Celebration, or a desire to ignore just to ignore those pesky residents who are always asking for something; perhaps the celebration did conflict with the graduation party, maybe it was arrogance, laziness or insensitivity by Mark's advisors?

It really doesn’t matter since if Mark Morse wanted the Veterans Celebration a way would have been found. If Mark Morse cared about bringing the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall to The Villages someone would have checked with The Vendor to fully understand its installation requirements. Maybe if Mark knew someone who was a Veteran, or one of his children was now serving in the Armed Forces his attitude might have been different.

TOGETHER WE CARE – DO THEY?

[skip0358]

:throwtomatoes:It's a damn shame the project was killed. By the outline provided much work went into this planned event. I find it hard to believe that with as many families in this community with veteran ties and the size of this community that a site for this great celebration couldn't be found. Sounds similar to the relay for life event. Nothing in it for Moffit no can do. What a damn shame.Just another kick in the teeth for veterans and their families.:grumpy:

[Uptown Girl]

I read your post with care. I am not a veteran, but a number of my family members have served our country honorably. I have lost friends to war. My beloved husband has served in Viet Nam as a corpsman with the Marines.

We live in the suburbs of Chicago. We have the Moving Wall come to one of our neighboring communities yearly. My husband has regularly been a part of it's escort to placement when it arrives. There are names on that wall of people who have died in his arms and friends he has grieviously lost.

I have attended with him and have observed what a solemn and intimate experience it is. Our community keeps it in that way in it's preparation and presentation. Whether they do this out of choice or necessity, I'm not certain, but they let everyone know it's coming and those who want to attend do not let the opportunity escape them.

My husband George has also participated in "The Run for The Wall" which is a cross country motorcycle trip with poignant history, from California to The Wall in Washington. My words can not adequately portray an experience he will never forget.
Once he visited the monument however, he began his journey home. He didn't stay for the rally and ceremonies, the crowds, etc. That was not the purpose of his trip and held no appeal for him to indulge in.

It is with respect that I wish to add my comment. I am responding as an outside observer. When I read your post about all that you had hoped would transpire, it was overwhelming to even imagine.


I may be quite wrong, but perhaps it is the scope of what you desire, not the purpose or content, that served to quell it's inauguration. Nothing more.

I respect and admire your heartfelt intentions to recognize and honor those who have been and are our heroes.
I hope my husband George will consider putting his own response in this forum.

[redwitch]

I am most definitely not a fan of the developer. I am also very pro-military. My father served in two wars and died as a result of a military-caused injury. My brother served three tours in Vietnam not because he believed in that conflict but because he believed he could save lives (and did) by being there. Both have been highly decorated by our government. I am extremely proud of both of them.

That being said, there are two sides to this story and I really would like to hear the other side. There just seem to be some facts missing.

Regardless, I sincerely hope there is a way to have this event occur, if not this year, then next year. I know it is something I would wholeheartedly support and would be more than willing to help in any way I could.

[Bogie Shooter]

Without fixing blame on anyone, one statement you made would give me cause for concern.
"where spectators in the thousands " I could see that happening and thousands of people coming, every day, to TV could be overwhelming.

[billethkid]

lacks the experience to gauge response to certain types of events.
When the interface organization goes from responsive to non supportive it is obvious they either discovered some new information to affect the decision. Or when the upper management heard about it there was something that did not measure up....and this could be most anything from liability to not contributing to Moffitt to a crossed hair.

And like Relay for Life this will boil around for months and when they know which way to best phrase it for public consumption TV will communicate through some mid level responder. Typical response to be expected.

btk

[Taj44]

I don't get it. The polo field has been used for Golf fest with thousands of people using it. They've had no problem with other events that bring in a lot of people. I am not a veteran, however, I have seen the Wall at another location, and it was a very moving experience for me and my family. With the number of ex-military people living here in The Villages, it does seem like a no-brainer. I would like to hear the official reasons from The Villages why there is no support.

[nkrifats]

Being retired from the military, I would be proud to support this and would loved to have seen this event. However I do have to take the stand of a lot of others. What has the other side officially said. We do need that before we cast the stone at the developer. I am also not a fan of the developer but there are two sides to every story. I would hope that Moffett is not the reason.

[mrdarcy]

One way to look at the situation is the men and women in our armed forces sacrificed and continue to sacrifice so much to allow us, including the Morse family, the prosperity we enjoy. In this light The Villages stands as a living tribute to them. They've also fought to secure our rights and freedoms. In this light the Morses are exercising their right to do what they want with property they and their companies own. The same securities we enjoy. Again, made possible by the sacrifices of our uniformed men and women.

I would have been very moved to attend the celebrations planned by the TogetherWeCare steering committee and sorely regret that they will not occur. However, each day I celebrate the good fortune afforded me to live in such a beautiful place with such gifted, talented people coming at a cost so dear. Our homes and our way of life in TV exist as a perpetual honor and rememberance to the United States military forces.

[TommyT]

Taking everything into consideration, I have a real problem with a persons first post bashing our community and developer.... if they don't like the community, go away and leave us, the ones that do, alone.....

sheeeeeeeesh !!!

:throwtomatoes:

[GatorFan]

The Horse park off 475 west of Belleview has the perfect location. Love the idea of what you are trying to bring to our area. Would you consider trying again outside of the Villages and asking for help from non Villagers? Honoring our military past and present is a wonderful idea.

[katezbox]

I have been to the Wall in DC and, for the daughter of a WWII vet who came of age during Viet Nam, it was an amazing experience. I think I shed a tear for every name....

I do hope that there will be a response from TV.

Normally, I don't like a newcomer coming in and bashing our community - but in this case the poster presented lots of details. He (she?) took a lot of time to compose that post and used TOTV as the forum that it is... as surely this written as a letter to the Editor in the Sun would likely not ever be seen in print.

I hope that some of the other Villagers involved in this can be persuaded to comment here as well....

k

[Larry Wilson]

Thank you-TogetherWeCare. As I've said, I've lived here full time 7 years. I know more than I care to know. I had heard about this in whispers. I have nothing but respect for your efforts, and for taking the time to post. :BigApplause:

[BlueHeronFan]

I am a member of the Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 1036 The Villages.
Here is a copy of the email that we received from the Chapter President regarding this matter.I wish to thank each and everyone of you for the vast amount of work done, particularly behind the scenes, on making this event happen.

The Entertainment Department of The Villages went above and beyond with their efforts to make this happen!! and a hardy thank you to them!! When the planning stages were culminated, they took the next step and presented the proposal to Commercial Property Management and that's when proverbial "S" hit the fan. They would not and could not tackle the many Liability issues.

"Plan B" you will note, was hosting at the American Legion, pending approval of their BOD. John Gibbons had other "Duties/Engagement" and did not attend the meeting. Their board decided that they did not have enough "Head Time" to properly host this event.

On Wednesday, March 9,2011, I resubmitted a bare bones request to Commercial Property Management Division, for any site for this project. On Friday, March 11,2011, I received a communication from them that the division explaining, the still overwhelming liability issue with the Wall.

So, lessons learned the hard way, we will be unable to sponsor this project this year.

Thanks again for all your hard work, to each and everyone of you. Lets not sit back and point fingers at anybody for the things that are beyond our control. Like all good soldiers, we pick-up the pieces and move on.

The Moving Wall will be on display at Wickham Park in Melbourne. May 1-8th at the Florida Reunion of Vietnam Veterans. We are in the process of finding those who wish to attend with car pooling dates.

Looking forward to seeing each of you at the April 5th General Membership Meeting. (Election Night)

Please come and cast your vote and i look forward to your continued support.

Alonzo Young, President
VVA Chapter 1036
The Villages

[Pturner]

I read your post with care. I am not a veteran, but a number of my family members have served our country honorably. I have lost friends to war. My beloved husband has served in Viet Nam as a corpsman with the Marines.

We live in the suburbs of Chicago. We have the Moving Wall come to one of our neighboring communities yearly. My husband has regularly been a part of it's escort to placement when it arrives. There are names on that wall of people who have died in his arms and friends he has grieviously lost.

I have attended with him and have observed what a solemn and intimate experience it is. Our community keeps it in that way in it's preparation and presentation. Whether they do this out of choice or necessity, I'm not certain, but they let everyone know it's coming and those who want to attend do not let the opportunity escape them.

My husband George has also participated in "The Run for The Wall" which is a cross country motorcycle trip with poignant history, from California to The Wall in Washington. My words can not adequately portray an experience he will never forget.
Once he visited the monument however, he began his journey home. He didn't stay for the rally and ceremonies, the crowds, etc. That was not the purpose of his trip and held no appeal for him to indulge in.

It is with respect that I wish to add my comment. I am responding as an outside observer. When I read your post about all that you had hoped would transpire, it was overwhelming to even imagine.


I may be quite wrong, but perhaps it is the scope of what you desire, not the purpose or content, that served to quell it's inauguration. Nothing more.

I respect and admire your heartfelt intentions to recognize and honor those who have been and are our heroes.
I hope my husband George will consider putting his own response in this forum.

I wondered the same thing. The scope of events over six days would require a tremendous amount of logistical support. The growth to involvement of 20-plus organizations also increased the complexity. I can almost picture how initial enthusiasm could turn to... yikes, this is a larger and more complex project than we can handle.

I have visited The Wall in the nation's capital. It is a deeply moving and solemn experience. My heartfelt thanks goes every day to our veterans. Thanks also to all of the support organizations for their efforts.

[nitakk]

As previous posts have noted, we would like to hear the developer's side of this story but we won't. Perhaps he could be questioned at a town meeting - oh, that's right, we don't have one and even if we did, he would take no questions from the commoners. Since I doubt I will ever run into him after living here 7 years, all I have to go by is past behavior on his part. Let's see - the amenity lawsuit, selling rec centers at inflated costs back to us, refusal to do the cart paths until the lawsuit was won and the AAC stepped up, trying to stick District 4 for the cost of a sinkhole on his golf course, the whole Moffett fiasco, Relay for Life being cut off and illegally shooting elk. In my opinion, even if he did address this issue, which he won't, I would find anything he has to say suspect.

As for the "how dare you say something negative" post, I think the cause Togetherwecare is supporting speaks volumes on his character and dedication to our veterans. I thank you for your hard work and taking the time to inform us of your cause. I'm getting real tired of the "love it or leave it" mentality that puts people down when they voice a concern over something happening here in The Villages. Not all people in the Villages choose to live their lives with their head in the sand their butt in the air. Since we will never hear objective truth from the developer, where are we supposed to get the facts on issues that affect us all? From places like this and I am grateful for it!

[Tbugs]

Why didn't American Legion Post 347 put it on their property?

[FMF Doc]

While I applaud the efforts of you and all others involved to recognize veterans past and present I am at a loss to see how the Moving Wall fits into this.

The original moving wall is a replica of the Viet Nam Memorial in Washington, DC. The real memorial has become known as the healing wall. It is healing to all that hurt from the war. The veterans that went, the ones that didn't go. The war protestors and the folks that left the U.S., it is supposed to help or to start the healing process as a country.

The original moving wall was started by combat vets that were so affected by their visits to the wall they wanted to make a replica available for all of those that could not or would not go to Washington.

Both the actual wall and the moving wall(s) have become sacred ground. Most of the time you are lucky if you hear quiet whispers or murmurs, especially when visited during the night time hours. These are spirtual places for a lot of people. Perhaps it is the first time seeing the name of someone of significance or perhaps the opportunity to say goodbye. For many it is an emotional excperience even if it is not the first visit. For me it is the recognition that these names are special. They are not the names of victims. These are America's best. There are over 200 Medal of Honor Recipients on that wall. There are hundred and thousands of Navy Crosses, Distinguished Service Crosses and Bronze Stars. The names represent over 58,000 Purple Hearts

The Wall and it's traveling replicas should not be a part of anything else. Not the center ring of a three ring circus, not part of a fund raising effort and certainly not associated with any bashing of any individual or organization. After all it is the healing wall. It should be presented on it's own with dignity. Not to be used to promote any organization, corporation or individual.

[paulandjean]

I moved here to live, not to have the Morse family entertain me.This is not going to happen,so move on.Seems the older we get the more personal it becomes.

[Talk Host]

Taking everything into consideration, I have a real problem with a persons first post bashing our community and developer.... if they don't like the community, go away and leave us, the ones that do, alone.....

sheeeeeeeesh !!!

:throwtomatoes:

First time posters have as much right as anybody to post a topic of interest to them. It is no different than a letter to the editor of the newspaper. Do people have to send numerous letters to the editor before they can write one with a controversial theme. No.

In fact, this first time poster came to exactly the right place to post this information. One does not need to be part of the regular group in order to take advantage of the power offered by this forum.

I have read and re-read the original post and, nowhere, have I found where he said that he didn't like the community.

[nkrifats]

I am a member of the Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 1036 The Villages.
Here is a copy of the email that we received from the Chapter President regarding this matter.I wish to thank each and everyone of you for the vast amount of work done, particularly behind the scenes, on making this event happen.

The Entertainment Department of The Villages went above and beyond with their efforts to make this happen!! and a hardy thank you to them!! When the planning stages were culminated, they took the next step and presented the proposal to Commercial Property Management and that's when proverbial "S" hit the fan. They would not and could not tackle the many Liability issues.

"Plan B" you will note, was hosting at the American Legion, pending approval of their BOD. John Gibbons had other "Duties/Engagement" and did not attend the meeting. Their board decided that they did not have enough "Head Time" to properly host this event.

On Wednesday, March 9,2011, I resubmitted a bare bones request to Commercial Property Management Division, for any site for this project. On Friday, March 11,2011, I received a communication from them that the division explaining, the still overwhelming liability issue with the Wall.

So, lessons learned the hard way, we will be unable to sponsor this project this year.

Thanks again for all your hard work, to each and everyone of you. Lets not sit back and point fingers at anybody for the things that are beyond our control. Like all good soldiers, we pick-up the pieces and move on.

The Moving Wall will be on display at Wickham Park in Melbourne. May 1-8th at the Florida Reunion of Vietnam Veterans. We are in the process of finding those who wish to attend with car pooling dates.

Looking forward to seeing each of you at the April 5th General Membership Meeting. (Election Night)

Please come and cast your vote and i look forward to your continued support.

Alonzo Young, President
VVA Chapter 1036
The Villages

Thank you for posting this response.

[K9-Lovers]

At one time, I was director of special events for the city where I lived. As a military community, we began discussions regarding hosting "The Wall" in our area. We had a similar steering committee and 7 cities were involved. The fee to have The Wall visit was prohibitive. In my professional opinion at the time, there was an extremely high percentage of profit for the promotors.

Did your steering committee prepare a planning budget? Did the budget include a conservative estimate of income through fund-raising and sponsorships? Or, was the steering committee expecting the developer to shoulder the majority of the expense? From my past experience, I'm guessing the expenses were substantial.

While the events planned at TV sound wonderful, the additional costs of a variety of free events, plus the cost for logistical support would be enough to make any business-minded person take pause.

Patriotism can be expressed in many ways and does not require spending excessive amounts of money.

Did the steering committee consider any other alternatives besides having "The Wall" displayed? Maybe instead of the moving wall, uniformed volunteers could conduct an around-the-clock reading of each and every name on The Wall. Together with the ancilliary events you had planned, the community could particpate and your efforts would surely be appreciated.

Don't let disappointment over losing one aspect of your celebration cloud your enthusiasm! While the steering committee may be dismayed over losing this one component (The Wall), why not carry on with the other activities? A few ticketed events and some sponsorship could pay for everything else you had planned.

[Taj44]

First time posters have as much right as anybody to post a topic of interest to them. It is no different than a letter to the editor of the newspaper. Do people have to send numerous letters to the editor before they can write one with a controversial theme. No.

In fact, this first time poster came to exactly the right place to post this information. One does not need to be part of the regular group in order to take advantage of the power offered by this forum.

I have read and re-read the original post and, nowhere, have I found where he said that he didn't like the community.

Thank you Talk Host. :BigApplause:

[batman911]

Would the response have been different if TV was incorporated into a city government? Has that option ever been seriously discussed?

[eweissenbach]

Thank you Talk Host. :BigApplause:

:agree::BigApplause::agree:

[ilovetv]

There are times when we can't have everything we want. Sometimes I think TV residents spend too much time on what WE want instead of looking past our cozy comfort zone and outward to others who have much more critical needs to be met/helped.

I have visited The Wall in Washington various times and it is deeply moving. Every memorial in Washington DC is deeply moving. Every time we go there we say, "Why don't we visit here more often?!?!? This place is a national treasure!"

I think most people in TV can afford the time and travel costs of going to see the real thing and far more. The Lincoln Memorial......Jefferson Memorial.....read what is on THOSE walls inside!

[golfnut]

First let me start by saying that I have nothing but the utmost respect and praise for all of our servicemen and veterans, they are a huge part of what truly makes this the greatest country on earth. However I agree with tommyt and fmf doc. I don't like the fact that a first time poster is on here bashing TV and making statements that haven't been substantiated, not saying he doesn't have the right to do it, just sayin I don't like it. I also agree with FMF Doc, I don't believe the wall was created to be to be the center of a three ring circus. One last point, I didn't see anything in togetherwecan's post that said he sat across from Mark or had a direct communication from him stopping this alleged event, as such the title of his post in inappopriate at best, most likely it's a total sham....gn

[katezbox]

I moved here to live, not to have the Morse family entertain me.

I agree that many seem to erroneously feel that the Morse family is responsible in some paternalistic way for our welfare, however...

The wall is a symbol of healing and reconciliation - surely NOT entertainment!

[Bosoxfan]

:BigApplause:One way to look at the situation is the men and women in our armed forces sacrificed and continue to sacrifice so much to allow us, including the Morse family, the prosperity we enjoy. In this light The Villages stands as a living tribute to them. They've also fought to secure our rights and freedoms. In this light the Morses are exercising their right to do what they want with property they and their companies own. The same securities we enjoy. Again, made possible by the sacrifices of our uniformed men and women.

I would have been very moved to attend the celebrations planned by the TogetherWeCare steering committee and sorely regret that they will not occur. However, each day I celebrate the good fortune afforded me to live in such a beautiful place with such gifted, talented people coming at a cost so dear. Our homes and our way of life in TV exist as a perpetual honor and rememberance to the United States military forces.

Well said!!

:BigApplause:

[keithgerri]

I am a retired usaf vietnam vet. Agree with a lot of the posts and we dont know the whole story. Lot of gossip . chilout. Life goes on. Lets enjoy it while we still see the right side of the grass:D

[Walt.]

This attack on Morse seems somewhat self-serving.
Is this post any different than SEIU or Jesse Jackson picketing in front of peoples houses to get their way.
Apparently if you don't support this you are unpatriotic, have never met a veteran, and have had no veterans in your family. Nonsense.

Is this show really any different than a touring company of "Cats?"
A dinner-dance might be nice, a flea market might be fun, and a vintage-plane flyover (why?) might be entertaining for about 15 seconds; and who was supposed to put on this "name" concert?
Do veterans need to be told over and over how terrific they are? The "tellers" are usually politicians or somebody with a sales pitch.

I'm sure this is done by a non-profit group. Does this mean there is no profit?

An Elvis impersonator is not Elvis... the Beatles tribute guys are not the Beatles. This is not the Vietnam Wall.

[gratton]

The Developer Has Second Thoughts
BUT something was missing. The Mark Morse’s Organizations were hesitating to provide any form of support. First it was proposed that a portion of any money raised would go to Moffitt Center. The Veterans Groups rejected that idea because they felt that there were other worthy causes to help present and future veterans that could use any proceeds or excess donations.
.

[Taj44]

The Developer Has Second Thoughts
BUT something was missing. The Mark Morse’s Organizations were hesitating to provide any form of support. First it was proposed that a portion of any money raised would go to Moffitt Center. The Veterans Groups rejected that idea because they felt that there were other worthy causes to help present and future veterans that could use any proceeds or excess donations.
.

Thanks Gratton, that's the part that rankles me. Why does everything have to go to the Morse's pet charity? Of course the veterans are going to want to use any proceeds to go to veteran related causes.

[jackz]

I am a retired usaf vietnam vet. Agree with a lot of the posts and we dont know the whole story. Lot of gossip . chilout. Life goes on. Lets enjoy it while we still see the right side of the grass:D

Also a Vietnam Vet and agree and liked your post. For those who ever have the opportunity to visit the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, DC, please do so, it is very moving and even after all these years to see some of the notes, flowers and keepsakes that are left at the wall is amazing.

[redwitch]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If you hold a charitable event on TV property, whether a rec center or the Polo Fields or wherever, a portion of the proceeds goes to Moffitt. Period. That's the present policy. It is what it is. I don't agree with it, but it's the Morse's land and the developer has a right to do and say what will be done on it. We may not like it but there are alternatives -- either give Moffitt a share or hold it elsewhere.

When reading the original post, I did think this might be too much for TV to handle. It is not just a golf fest or a parade. It is a viewing that will bring many from outside of TV. It is a parade. It is a dinner/dance. It is a lot of things going on. I would love to see it happen but I can certainly see where it might not be feasible. I wonder if TV would be more amenable if it were scaled down. Also, why couldn't the wall be erected by the VA Center and the parade held around one of the squares or the Vetran's Meemorial or the Polo Fields?

I doubt we will hear TV's reasons for ultimately turning it down, but this is one time where there might be some truly valid reasons regardless of how much we would like to see it occur.

[graciegirl]

Was this going to be during Polo season?

[redwitch]

Was this going to be during Polo season?

No.

[graciegirl]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If you hold a charitable event on TV property, whether a rec center or the Polo Fields or wherever, a portion of the proceeds goes to Moffitt. Period. That's the present policy. It is what it is. I don't agree with it, but it's the Morse's land and the developer has a right to do and say what will be done on it. We may not like it but there are alternatives -- either give Moffitt a share or hold it elsewhere.

When reading the original post, I did think this might be too much for TV to handle. It is not just a golf fest or a parade. It is a viewing that will bring many from outside of TV. It is a parade. It is a dinner/dance. It is a lot of things going on. I would love to see it happen but I can certainly see where it might not be feasible. I wonder if TV would be more amenable if it were scaled down. Also, why couldn't the wall be erected by the VA Center and the parade held around one of the squares or the Veteran's Memorial or the Polo Fields?

I doubt we will hear TV's reasons for ultimately turning it down, but this is one time where there might be some truly valid reasons regardless of how much we would like to see it occur.

Intelligent and well written post Red, as usual.:thumbup:

The original post was also well presented.

K9lovers has the closest guess to me as to why it was refused. In my opinion.

I suggest to those who don't like the developer that it would have benefited his sale of homes.

There is so much we don't know.

[actor]

This attack on Morse seems somewhat self-serving.
Is this post any different than SEIU or Jesse Jackson picketing in front of peoples houses to get their way.
Apparently if you don't support this you are unpatriotic, have never met a veteran, and have had no veterans in your family. Nonsense.

Is this show really any different than a touring company of "Cats?"
A dinner-dance might be nice, a flea market might be fun, and a vintage-plane flyover (why?) might be entertaining for about 15 seconds; and who was supposed to put on this "name" concert?
Do veterans need to be told over and over how terrific they are? The "tellers" are usually politicians or somebody with a sales pitch.

I'm sure this is done by a non-profit group. Does this mean there is no profit?

An Elvis impersonator is not Elvis... the Beatles tribute guys are not the Beatles. This is not the Vietnam Wall.

agree completely.

[billethkid]

you guys must have a hell of a time going to church....eh?

btk

[same]

[QUOTE=Talk Host;341281]First time posters have as much right as anybody to post a topic of interest to them. It is no different than a letter to the editor of the newspaper. Do people have to send numerous letters to the editor before they can write one with a controversial theme. No.


A "letter to the Editor" has to be signed, or it is not published. That is to prevent cowards from "ranting".

[Alaska]

First let me say that after testing the villages lifestyle for about 8 years, it was primarily the conservative, pro veteran/military attitude that finally brought my wife and I permanently to this wonderful place.

I do have difficulty understanding those that have made a new life here yet boast how they do not care for the developer. As far as I know, this community was and has always been controlled by the same family. In all the years we have been coming here, before permanently relocating, I never felt that the developer and his family were not supportive of the military and veterans. In fact I felt the opposite.

As a veteran myself, US Army 1969 - 1978, I would love for this project to take place and would hope that Mr Morse would address this issue. I do, as others have commented, feel that there is probably more to the story, as there usually is. Look forward to hearing more.

[ilovetv]

Thank you Alaska, redwitch and others for the insightful and balanced posts.

Personally, I don't see why people here would get so worked up over a very scaled-down replica being taken around the country, and why people are getting so worked up about it not being brought here.....especially since the real thing in Washington is surrounded in walking distance by the OTHER such moving monuments!

Why not organize an excursion of TV'rs to go to the real monument in Washington DC, and enjoy each others' company and show solidarity for our veterans THERE?

The Vietnam Memorial location there IS set up for hundreds of thousands of people to gather all at once--it is done all the time, i.e. rallies for presidential inauguration, million man march, Beck's 8/28 rally, the liberal response to that one, etc.

I see excursions from TV all the time, such as those in the lifelong learning college that go to the Holy Land, geneaology trip to UT, etc. Why not organize an excursion to Washington DC and gather as TV'rs at the Memorial--the real thing--THERE?

[Talk Host]

Quote by same

A "letter to the Editor" has to be signed, or it is not published. That is to prevent cowards from "ranting"

I'm guessing that your real name is "same"

[swimdawg]

IMHO There's two sides to every story. I'm a patriot....for heaven's sake, my dawg is the Seabees Island X-8 Mascot. (if I can figure out how to include a picture, you can see her guarding the Seabees Bulldozer in No. Tonawanda, NY.). I've been to The Wall in Washington,DC and found it to be an experience I'll never forget. I couldn't & didn't want to talk for an hour after I left. When the Moving Wall came to our area, I had a totally different experience. It was a bit of a carnival affair and certainly lost a lot of the solemnity that I experienced in D. C. Needless to say, I was disappointed. But.....it was still honoring our great Veterans. I would do anything to support our Veterans and our wonderful soldiers. I'll be interested to hear "the other side of the story". No matter what, we live in a great country. Thank you to all who are serving and have served. YOU'RE THE BEST!!!!

cid:5FE2AE31-EBF2-4717-9A18-0D1C72A0DDEE/photo.JPG
"Lexi - Seabees Island X-8 Mascot"

[Pturner]

I do not agree with the original poster's rant.

By his own account, he would have needed, and he expected, numerous departments of TV to be available to his committee for planning and support. By his own account, he expected TV to make many of arrangements and to plan at least the fund-raising and "name" concert events. He made no mention of plans to pay for any of this. By his own admission, there were "other alternate proposal forthcoming from The Developer". By his own admission, "on every solemn occassion, ie. Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and other fitting days a moving and fitting ceremony has been held at the Developer donated Veterans Memorial Park."

Yet he insinuated that Mark Morse is indifferent to veterans.

So, I believe that criticisms he has received for the content of his post have been well deserved. But criticizing his right to post it merely because it was his first post-- no way.

He only told one side of the story and many of us felt he did not substantiate his harsh criticisms. Many of us have said so. This is a discussion board and expressing our opinions on such things is what we do. Would his exact same post have been any more or less deserving of rebuke or praise had he posted three times before or three thousand?

Would the exact same post by me pass muster, even though it be one-sided and not well substantiated, merely because I'm a regular contributor? No Way.

[dillywho]

:BigApplause:Well said, PT. You said exactly what I was trying to figure out how to say. He is entitled to his opinion and should not be bashed for speaking out.

Both my sons are retired military and my husband also served. I, too, think that the poster does not have all his ducks in a row and makes many statements about Mark Morse's motives/feelings, etc. regarding veterans without backing them up. The Developer is not Mark Morse but a family business and has been very instrumental in doing things for our veterans. How does this guy know that Morse or any of his family did not serve or are not doing so now?

It still doesn't seem to be coming out right (what I am trying to say) so I'd best defer to PT....she's got it down. Thanks again, Lady.

[Challenger]

I also feel that there is another side to this story. I served many years in the mlitary and believe that those who gave "the last full measure" should be honored at appropriate times and in and in a manner fitting their sacrifice. That being said it is unfortunate that those who have a different opinion of how and under what conditions a land owner should use his property , would demean him and his motives in a public forum.

[golf2140]

I do not agree with the original poster's rant.

By his own account, he would have needed, and he expected, numerous departments of TV to be available to his committee for planning and support. By his own account, he expected TV to make many of arrangements and to plan at least the fund-raising and "name" concert events. He made no mention of plans to pay for any of this. By his own admission, there were "other alternate proposal forthcoming from The Developer". By his own admission, "on every solemn occassion, ie. Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and other fitting days a moving and fitting ceremony has been held at the Developer donated Veterans Memorial Park."

Yet he insinuated that Mark Morse is indifferent to veterans.

So, I believe that criticisms he has received for the content of his post have been well deserved. But criticizing his right to post it merely because it was his first post-- no way.

He only told one side of the story and many of us felt he did not substantiate his harsh criticisms. Many of us have said so. This is a discussion board and expressing our opinions on such things is what we do. Would his exact same post have been any more or less deserving of rebuke or praise had he posted three times before or three thousand?

Would the exact same post by me pass muster, even though it be one-sided and not well substantiated, merely because I'm a regular contributor? No Way.



:BigApplause:

[Talk Host]

Perhaps one can understand why an individual (The original poster) would be bitter. It appears that after a lot of hard work, there was never a complete and understandable reason given for the final rejection. If the facts contained in the original post are to be believed, there was just a sudden end to correspondence.

"A series of e-mails had been sent to Barbara Vesco – Entertainment, Sonny Resmundo – Construction, and Mackie Mccabe – Hospitality requesting a meeting to review the installation and construction details associated with “The Wall” to make sure everyone understood the specifications and show them that there would be no damage to the Polo Field. NO RESPONSE.

The Villages Entertainment Department, The Villages Construction Department were again asked to relook at “The Walls” installation and speak directly to The Vendor so they would fully and completely understand that there would not be any damage to the Polo Field and that there would be no need for $21,000 for sod replacement, and again explaining that the Polo Field was the only viable location for this event. NO RESPONSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would anger me too.

Now, a question!!!! Is this traveling wall a "for profit" enterprise on the part of some entrepreneur? The original poster uses the term "vendor" when referring to the wall. I searched the internet and can't find any information about the actual structure of Vietnam Combat Veterans LTD. If it is a "for profit" venture on somebody's part I can't be so supportive of a community backed program.

When I was still working, I joined a group called "National Association of Radio Talk Show Hosts." When I went to the national convention, I found out it was a private enterprise run by a woman who had no radio background at all.

JLK

[memason]

I've read the original post more times than I am willing to admit. For me, it just doesn't pass the "smell" test. It starts with the thread title: "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall" which [in my opinion] is misleading and personal.

I have no problem with it being their first post, but I have to wonder; What was the OBJECTIVE of the post ? Certainly, TOTV posters are not going to make any difference in whether this event is staged or not. In my opinion, it was simply an opportunity to bash the Developer. Ironically, since that first posting, they have not been back.

Now, I'll show my cynical side.... I believe this poster is one of our "regular" posters, albeit with a new anonymous identity.

Just saying.... :shrug:

[Challenger]

:BigApplause:I've read the original post more times than I am willing to admit. For me, it just doesn't pass the "smell" test. It starts with the thread title: "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall" which [in my opinion] is misleading and personal.

I have no problem with it being their first post, but I have to wonder; What was the OBJECTIVE of the post ? Certainly, TOTV posters are not going to make any difference in whether this event is staged or not. In my opinion, it was simply an opportunity to bash the Developer. Ironically, since that first posting, they have not been back.

Now, I'll show my cynical side.... I believe this poster is one of our "regular" posters, albeit with a new anonymous identity.

Just saying.... :shrug::BigApplause:

[SarFred]

FMF Doc, well said.

[BobKat1]

I don't think the OP has been back on here since his/her original post. It would be interesting to hear back with some additional info.

[downeaster]

I've read the original post more times than I am willing to admit. For me, it just doesn't pass the "smell" test. It starts with the thread title: "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall" which [in my opinion] is misleading and personal.

I have no problem with it being their first post, but I have to wonder; What was the OBJECTIVE of the post ? Certainly, TOTV posters are not going to make any difference in whether this event is staged or not. In my opinion, it was simply an opportunity to bash the Developer. Ironically, since that first posting, they have not been back.

Now, I'll show my cynical side.... I believe this poster is one of our "regular" posters, albeit with a new anonymous identity.

Just saying.... :shrug:

I agree, memason. As for me, the thread title invalidated the rest of the post. I also agree that the OP may be a regular who will take any opportunity to take a cheap shot at the Developer.

[redwitch]

Boy, we are a suspicious bunch, aren't we? I agree I didn't like the title, but that was the whole point of the post -- to show the poster's viewpoint that Mark Morse squashed something he felt was important. Can't say I agree given the stated facts, but it's not my opinion, it is the OP's opinion.

I can understand the frustration he and his friends felt. It sounds like there was a lot of hard work done in the pre-planning and it sounds like there was no real explanation ultimately given as to why the whole thing was shut down. For the hard work done in to trying to have this occur, they have my sympathies. For the lack of final communication from TV staff, they have my sympathies. For the accusations made here (based simply on conjecture), my condolences. To me, it is counterproductive to accuse a poster of simply posting to bash the Morses or to state the poster is a fraud. All it does is create bad feelings for this site, gives a bad impression to newbies and doesn't help get the facts out, which is what I'm hoping was the true intent of the OP.

I still would like to hear all of the facts; the issues and concerns of TV for ultimately not going through with this; is the traveling wall a business concern?; and so on. Seems the more that is posted that stays on point, the more questions there are. To me, it has become less of an issue as to what Mark Morse wanted or did not want, it has become a mass of questions as to what parts of this project are feasible.

Personally, I would love to have the traveling wall here. For many, the trip to see it in D.C. is impossible either because of physical or financial issues. It would be nice if this could happen.

In the meantime, I will happily support the veterans in other ways. They are my heroes!

[K9-Lovers]

Excellent post, Redwitch.:agree:

[skyguy79]

I am a member of the Vietnam Veterans of America Chapter 1036 The Villages.
Here is a copy of the email that we received from the Chapter President regarding this matter.I wish to thank each and everyone of you for the vast amount of work done, particularly behind the scenes, on making this event happen.

The Entertainment Department of The Villages went above and beyond with their efforts to make this happen!! and a hardy thank you to them!! When the planning stages were culminated, they took the next step and presented the proposal to Commercial Property Management and that's when proverbial "S" hit the fan. They would not and could not tackle the many Liability issues.

"Plan B" you will note, was hosting at the American Legion, pending approval of their BOD. John Gibbons had other "Duties/Engagement" and did not attend the meeting. Their board decided that they did not have enough "Head Time" to properly host this event.

On Wednesday, March 9,2011, I resubmitted a bare bones request to Commercial Property Management Division, for any site for this project. On Friday, March 11,2011, I received a communication from them that the division explaining, the still overwhelming liability issue with the Wall.

So, lessons learned the hard way, we will be unable to sponsor this project this year.

Thanks again for all your hard work, to each and everyone of you. Lets not sit back and point fingers at anybody for the things that are beyond our control. Like all good soldiers, we pick-up the pieces and move on.

The Moving Wall will be on display at Wickham Park in Melbourne. May 1-8th at the Florida Reunion of Vietnam Veterans. We are in the process of finding those who wish to attend with car pooling dates.

Looking forward to seeing each of you at the April 5th General Membership Meeting. (Election Night)

Please come and cast your vote and i look forward to your continued support.

Alonzo Young, President
VVA Chapter 1036
The VillagesI am bumping this post not to put my 2 cents in on this topic, but because it seems to me after reading posts, that the content of this posting has been overlooked or ignored at least in part and attention should be brought to it. I may be wrong, but several posts seem not to support that I am.

[Pturner]

On a side note, I would encourage anyone who hasn't, to consider a trip to visit the Vietnam Memorial.

Although I haven't seen the traveling replica, I wonder if it could begin to evoke as intense an emotional response as seeing the Wall in context. In context-- and it was very much designed in context-- it utterly takes your breath away. The calm, the scope, the depth, the surroundings of national symbols, the quiet private tributes at it's base, the solemn, slightly audible weeping of fellow visitors. It's almost unbearable yet comforting at the same time. The loss feels so personal, the sacrifice so great, the taste of freedom so immediate and real.

I wonder if a road show could do it justice and if anyone who saw the road show first would be ever so slightly cheated upon a first visit to the sacred ground of the actual Wall.

[rubicon]

How many Republican candidates and authors pitching their latest writing were welcomed to TV? How much did it cost to get them here? Who eventually paid their bills? How many people did they draw from the outside? Were these Republican candidate and authors subject to attack or risk? Did the TV liability exposure increase with their presence? It would take an excess surplus line insurance company to cover these events. Who eventually paid these huge premuims? Who benefited most and gained worldwide exposure from the televised poltical events of these world renowed personalities.

Do you suppose Mark Morse said to them " If you want to campaign or have a book signing in TV 50% of your proceeds have to go to the Moffitt Center? I think not.

In reviewing the original posters article did you even get a hint from the Developer, of this is an important event and we can manage it with the following changes........? Or did it end with a rejection Moffitt contribution proposal?

I do not have a personal like or dislike as relates to the Developer. To me its all about business and if you look closely at many of his transactions a repeating theme emerges from the 2003 Bond Issue v IRS, to Freedom Pointe, Moffitt Center and right down to even moving bison and more. Its more than just an attempt to maximize profits, its the detached attittude Suffice is to say we have paid more than we realize for the priviledge of "The Village Lifestyle". So we better enjoy it.

One more item it is beneficial to all of us to be able to speak our minds and to have different points of view. It has proven benefical for instance to have people who are optimistic and those who are pesstimistic. Both types fit our needs Optimists fill a need of what can be accomplsihed but in their enthusiasm often lose sight of the pitfalls and it is pestimist who tread carefully looking out for those thins that would cause our failure. so when I read a response to the effect of "if you don't like it move out" it leaves me to wonder. Thank God he made us all different.

[downeaster]

Boy, we are a suspicious bunch, aren't we? I agree I didn't like the title, but that was the whole point of the post -- to show the poster's viewpoint that Mark Morse squashed something he felt was important. Can't say I agree given the stated facts, but it's not my opinion, it is the OP's opinion.

I can understand the frustration he and his friends felt. It sounds like there was a lot of hard work done in the pre-planning and it sounds like there was no real explanation ultimately given as to why the whole thing was shut down. For the hard work done in to trying to have this occur, they have my sympathies. For the lack of final communication from TV staff, they have my sympathies. For the accusations made here (based simply on conjecture), my condolences. To me, it is counterproductive to accuse a poster of simply posting to bash the Morses or to state the poster is a fraud. All it does is create bad feelings for this site, gives a bad impression to newbies and doesn't help get the facts out, which is what I'm hoping was the true intent of the OP.

I still would like to hear all of the facts; the issues and concerns of TV for ultimately not going through with this; is the traveling wall a business concern?; and so on. Seems the more that is posted that stays on point, the more questions there are. To me, it has become less of an issue as to what Mark Morse wanted or did not want, it has become a mass of questions as to what parts of this project are feasible.

Personally, I would love to have the traveling wall here. For many, the trip to see it in D.C. is impossible either because of physical or financial issues. It would be nice if this could happen.

In the meantime, I will happily support the veterans in other ways. They are my heroes!

I agree with you, Red. (I usually do). However just look at his opening salvo "Mark Morse Kills Veterans Celebration and Vietnam Memorial Wall". He is openly accusing Mark Morse, single handedly, as the individual responsible for "killing" the project. Then we have BlueHeronFan's post, recently bumped by Skyguy79. Mr. Young's letter says a lot.
Mark Morse is in a no-win situation. He may not be aware of the charges made against him here and if is he there is little chance he can respond to anyone's satisfaction.
I guess I am in a defensive mode here. I dislike personal attacks on named individuals made by anonymous posters. I find the last sentence of the OP's post especially distasteful.
I am not saying Mark Morse didn't, or did, make the final decision. However, there are numerous and varied reasons why such a decision was made.
Do you think we will ever hear from the OP again? If the OP is sincere and, as you said " help get the facts out, which is what I'm hoping was the true intent of the OP", then we will hear from him/her again.

[rubicon]

I suspect if or when the Developer chooses to respond or not respond it has at its disposal total ownership and control of radio, television,newspaper and a homeowner association in TV to launch an offensive. So it would seem that the Developer does not need anyone coming to its rescue. By the way I don't view the Developer as an individual but rather an aggressive marketing enterprise and our government for the time being. So criticism isn't personal, its business. Some villagers keep forgetting that.

[jflynn1]

If The Morse Family wanted it to happen it would happen.
If it is not on their terms nothing happens in The Villages.
It is obvious they did not want it to happen.
Don't look for a response or comment in The Daily Sun

[K9-Lovers]

If The Morse Family wanted it to happen it would happen.
If it is not on their terms nothing happens in The Villages.
It is obvious they did not want it to happen.
Don't look for a response or comment in The Daily Sun

They may have wanted it to happen, but not at the expense of bearing the full costs of all the events, and having to re-sod the polo field after thousands of people came to view the wall. Nothing is "obvious" until we hear all the facts.

[Pturner]

They may have wanted it to happen, but not at the expense of bearing the full costs of all the events, and having to re-sod the polo field after thousands of people came to view the wall. Nothing is "obvious" until we hear all the facts.

So true.

[Larry Wilson]

If The Morse Family wanted it to happen it would happen.
If it is not on their terms nothing happens in The Villages.
It is obvious they did not want it to happen.
Don't look for a response or comment in The Daily Sun

So true.

[ilovetv]

How many Republican candidates and authors pitching their latest writing were welcomed to TV? How much did it cost to get them here? Who eventually paid their bills? How many people did they draw from the outside? Were these Republican candidate and authors subject to attack or risk?.........

This should be in the political discussions.

[saratogaman]

From the Daily Sun: “We now plan to draw funds out of reserves and complete the purchase of equipment for the new cancer center in The Villages. I’m confident that the continuing generosity of Villagers through the Mission for Moffitt campaign will replenish those reserves in time."
The money in the reserves results from income exceeding costs of running the place!

[graciegirl]

From the Daily Sun: “We now plan to draw funds out of reserves and complete the purchase of equipment for the new cancer center in The Villages. I’m confident that the continuing generosity of Villagers through the Mission for Moffitt campaign will replenish those reserves in time."
The money in the reserves results from income exceeding costs of running the place!

We will never know. Perhaps the bad publicity caused this to happen. Maybe it was another reason. This was in an article this morning that says that the Health Alliance is now partnering with the medical teaching facility and hospital at the University of Southern Florida at Tampa. (I can't find the paper, and I can't remember the name of the school..is that right?)

Personally, I welcome a medical teaching facility being involved with medical care in The Villages.

[villages07]

The history of funding and fundraising for the Villages hospital system has never been clearly documented for me. The Auxiliary and other support groups have conducted numerous fundraising benefits and activities over the years for various facilities and equipment additions to the Hospital. People have drawn a bulls eye on Moffitt fundraising because it has been so visible and persistent.

I am no expert in this arena, but, it seems to me that this is how community not for profit hospitals grow... From revenue in excess of expenses and community fundraising and support.

I welcome the announcement of an affiliation with University of South Florida. We are the perfect incubator for a Framingham type study on aging baby boomers and elder care.

I used to say the medical care was lagging the demand. I think this former shortcoming has improved dramatically in the last couple of years.

Back to the topic at hand.... sounds like the project grew too large and ambitious; it seems like the VFW post would have been a logical place to host this but they were brought in too late. I'm sure there were business reasons that the Villages opted out, but, "anti-military" is probably not one of them.

[MelZ]

I happen to be familiar with the event since the Vintage Car Club ( where I am a board member) was approached to provide cars for the parade. With some knowledge of the event I can vouch for the writers facts.

So stop looking for ulterior motives in the writer.

After working with the same people on issues at the "Cruise In" I can fully emphasize with his frustation.

BTW if he is who I think he is he has family members currently in the Middle East protecting all of us.

[memason]

... So stop looking for ulterior motives in the writer.




OK... So what "were" the motives of the original poster, who has never returned to participate in any debate of this topic?

For me, when a post is reduced to attacking a person(s) [Mark Morse, the Developer, Morse Family or anyone else], the whole thing looses a little credibility with me.

Just trying to keep it real ....

[MelZ]

Possibly to inform you and me of what transpired. Obviously you have never had to deal with the Developers and his team.

I suggest you listen more and attack less.

[cabo35]

Would the response have been different if TV was incorporated into a city government? Has that option ever been seriously discussed?

Self serving politicians vs benevolent dictator

Greedy, corrupt politicians vs benevolent dictator

Tax dollar consuming, waste generating bureaucracies vs benevolent dictator

Money talks zoning vs benevolent dictator

Political hacks spending tax dollars vs benevolent dictator

Chicago style politics vs benevolent dictator

Powerful special interests buying elections and guzzling their reward of tax dollars for votes vs benevolent dictator

Special study committees and endless decision making commissions vs benevolent dictator

Can you imagine a city government project as large and successful as the Villages being created on time and on budget with local politics in the equation?

Hmmmm..... let me think about that.

[scroll]

fyi
Benevolent dictatorship is a form of government in which an authoritarian leader exercises political power for the benefit of the whole population rather than exclusively for his or her own self-interest or benefit or for the benefit of only a small portion of the population. A benevolent dictator may allow for some democratic decision-making to exist, such as through public referendums.

[Army Guy]

Back to the topic at hand.... sounds like the project grew too large and ambitious; it seems like the VFW post would have been a logical place to host this but they were brought in too late. I'm sure there were business reasons that the Villages opted out, but, "anti-military" is probably not one of them.

I agree totally. I think this is in fact what may have happened. Just think of the legal issues, etc from something this large.
I can say without a doubt TV is far from and never will be Aniti-Military!!

Army Guy

[chuckster]

I suggest you listen more and attack less.

Applies to you also imho........:boom:

[rubicon]

I am just asking but how do you jump to another forum to respond to a discussion ? In a previous post I mentioned "Republican" and was reminded that my comments belonged in the political forum. Yet throughout this entire discussion the theme has been about "who has the power" in TV, and is it being fairly applied? So if that poster is correct, it may be after a review of each post you will agree with this posterand suggest that this entire discussion immediately be moved to the political forum? However, I suspect and have read in other discussions objections by some triggered by a word or words that apparently upset them, such as "Republican". Perhaps I should have been more mindful but my intent was not to address Republicans in particular but to make a comparison of well known people who draw huge crowds of people here, as the concerns for safety ,etc was one of the objections cited by the original poster as interferring in an attempt to the event to TV. It is my personal belief that all things end up political, relationships, business transaction, romances and sometimes even who we select to play golf with. We can only have meaningful discussion when we let down our guard and listen not only to the words but their meaning in the context of that discussion. I am never offended by words but may be by one's actions.

[spk7951]

On page 3 on the April 2011 POA bulletin is a comment that the traveling Vietnam Memorial Wall will be at the American Legion on Rolling Acres Road on June 4, 5 and 6, 2011

[doug11]

I don't need the healing wall to honor our real heroes... I am perfectly capable of keeping my thoughts and prayers in my heart for those who have lived and died defending this great country... If you need a Moving Wall in order to honor our great men and women I think you are lost in your own world...Please join me in shedding a tear for them and their families every time you get a glimpse of an American Flag...the fact that it still stands proudly in my front yard says it all...They have and always will be their for us with or without the Moving Wall!

God Bless our Vets
Doug b

[graciegirl]

On page 3 on the April 2011 POA bulletin is a comment that the traveling Vietnam Memorial Wall will be at the American Legion on Rolling Acres Road on June 4, 5 and 6, 2011

I read that too.

Wonder what this thread was about?

[Tbugs]

The American Legion is logically the best place to host the Moving Wall. The Wall has the names of over 58,000 Americans killed in Vietnam.

Even though I was in that conflict - I still wonder why the USA entered that war. It was a civil war. The USA had no interests in Vietnam and the Vietnamese posed no threat to the USA. If South Vietnam had gone Communist (which it did), that did not mean the US would fall to Communism. The Americans who died did not die defending our country - but rather a two bit dictatorship propped up by the US government.

Basically, it was 58,000 Americans killed for no reason.

[K9-Lovers]

I read that too.

Wonder what this thread was about?

Yes, Gracie, it seems curiouser and curioser now that we learn it will be displayed in our area. Hmmmm.

[Larry Wilson]

The American Legion is logically the best place to host the Moving Wall. The Wall has the names of over 58,000 Americans killed in Vietnam.

Even though I was in that conflict - I still wonder why the USA entered that war. It was a civil war. The USA had no interests in Vietnam and the Vietnamese posed no threat to the USA. If South Vietnam had gone Communist (which it did), that did not mean the US would fall to Communism. The Americans who died did not die defending our country - but rather a two bit dictatorship propped up by the US government.

Basically, it was 58,000 Americans killed for no reason.

I also am a Vietnam vet. I agree with your post Tbugs.

[katezbox]

If you need a Moving Wall in order to honor our great men and women I think you are lost in your own world...

Doug b

Doug - the title of your post is "Honor Vets in Your Own Way" yet you follow that with the statement above.

I'm thinking that for some, the wall (in DC or "moving") may be their own way...

[Togetherwecare]

I would like to thank all those who read my letter. I have been a resident of The Villages for many years. I have complete awe and respect for the Developer's family who have found a great formula for providing a great lifestyle and be able to make a profit. However, like the Villages ads states lits the residents who build the community they just build the houses. I place the letter on The Talk of The Villages because, unforunately, it is the ONLY vehicle we have for putting news in front of our residents and providing FACTS that we knew would not make the papers. In fact for those skeptics among you The Villages Daily Sun carried the first story about our endeavor on November 14, 2010 in Section C1.

Let my address some of the comments:

1) The Veterans Celebration and the displaying of the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall was an event for Villages residents, Villages Veterans and planned by Villages residents. At the time of cancellation not only were all the Veterans Organizations listed on the previous letter participating by many other Villages organizations had heard about the events and wanted in in any fashion. Music group wanted to play solemn music near the Wall, marching groups wanted to participate in the "Shadow Walk", car clubs wanted to transport injured and disabled Veterans so that they to could participate

2) The Wall was going to be open 24-hours a-day/ 4 days attended to by an Honor Guard of Veterans. The area was to be lighted 24-hours a day. The Celebration and Parade was going to last one morning or afternoon. Both events were going to be separated by sufficient distance as to keep the solemn presentation of The Wall and the celebration apart, yet allow for people to walk over or ride by golf cart. A "shadow walk" was going to be held on a separate evening to honor deceased veterans. This walk would be close by and have a candle lighting close to the Wall

3) The Wall has a cost, like it or not. To pay for The Wall, and other portions of the celebration a Dinner/Dance and sponsorships were planned. In addition, The Entertainment Department had offered to assist with both a pre "charity" event at Savannah Center AND a "named" concert. Their words. They offered to put a down payment to secure The Wall. None of these promises took place.

4) The only venue capable of providing sufficient off the street parking for cars and golf carts was the Polo Field. The only area providing some shade was the Polo Field. The only area that could handle people watching comfortably, being able to walk between The celebration and The Wall without risking injury was the Polo Field. The only area that was not in the middle of an active commerical shopping center and that didn't require the closing of streets was The Polo Field. The only area where spectators could watch the fly-over with a respectable missing plane formation in honor of deceased veterans without being hit by a distracted driver was the Polo Field. The only area where hundresd/thousands of people could participate in the "Shadow Walk" without risking a car accident was the Polo Field. The only area that did not have truck traffic roaring next to it was the Polo Field. It would have been very peaceful and solemn with a truck blaring its horn next to The Wall or a line up of truck traffic waiting for a Macdonald next to The Wall. The only area where 24-hour security for The Wall and sponsor and participating organization tentswas the polo Field. Did I bore you enough yet??

4) With all due respect to Al Young of the Vietnam Veterans of America CommericaL Property Management did the only smart thing. The question is why the Entertainment Department pushed the commerical areas when both areas had the same "liability" issues; meaning too dangerous?

5) I don't question the Villages legitimate concern for damage to The Polo Field; I do question their lack of concern when presented with information that their inital assessment was incorrect. I do question their failure to sit down with us to review the material, I do question their failure to call the vendor and ask him to review installation procedures again, I do question their failure to contact previous hosts who had brought and installed The Wall to other areas and ask them how the installation went and how much damage was caused. These failures cannot be explained.

6) Meanwhile the Golf Fest, Christmas Parades, Hoe Downs, the proposed Renaisaince Fair in September, horse pulls, concerts, etc. are encouraged to use the Polo Field for the same reasons why we wanted to. Ability to handle large groups and safety.

7) Don't kid yourself Mark Morse knew exactly what the plans were, and if he wanted us to work together to find a way to bring these activities to fruition it would have happened. But Mark didn't care. Why? I don't know.

Even a great person can make mistakes and is not beneath criticism. Grand Dad Harold Schwartz and Dad Gary Morse would never have let this occur.

[rubicon]

Togetherwecare, that is what I said;albeit by making comparisons with other planned events. You are spot on with your mention of no avenue to communicate your concerns. The Developer, the aggresive Marketing Enterprise owns or controls all coomunication avenue in TV and I include the Village Voice which relies on funding from the Developer. As for the POA they are too timid and have pulled back on issues of importance

[K9-Lovers]

My opinion, expressed earlier in this thread is unchanged.

Togetherwecare states that
"the Golf Fest, Christmas Parades, Hoe Downs, the proposed Renaisaince Fair in September, horse pulls, concerts, etc. are encouraged to use the Polo Field for the same reasons why we wanted to. Ability to handle large groups and safety."

However, those events either make money, or cost very little. My opinion stands.

Meanwhile, the event is taking place in another location. So why belabor this issue?

[PennBF]

I am one who loves The Villages and appreciate all that the Morse's have
done to make our lives better. I don't believe he should be demonized because of a concern that he may have regarding the risk and costs of
any potential event. I am sure he is not anti military as no one could pull
together and manage such a great community without having feelings.
Yep, they receive rewards for their work and by God they all deserve it.
To try to run him or the family down while enjoying all the fruits of their
labor is sad. I only hope some will get behind him and understand his concerns. Oh yes, I do not know the family or have any association with them. I just enjoy the work they have put in to make all of lives a great deal happier. :BigApplause:

[Larry Wilson]

I would like to thank all those who read my letter. I have been a resident of The Villages for many years. I have complete awe and respect for the Developer's family who have found a great formula for providing a great lifestyle and be able to make a profit. However, like the Villages ads states lits the residents who build the community they just build the houses. I place the letter on The Talk of The Villages because, unforunately, it is the ONLY vehicle we have for putting news in front of our residents and providing FACTS that we knew would not make the papers. In fact for those skeptics among you The Villages Daily Sun carried the first story about our endeavor on November 14, 2010 in Section C1.

Let my address some of the comments:

1) The Veterans Celebration and the displaying of the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall was an event for Villages residents, Villages Veterans and planned by Villages residents. At the time of cancellation not only were all the Veterans Organizations listed on the previous letter participating by many other Villages organizations had heard about the events and wanted in in any fashion. Music group wanted to play solemn music near the Wall, marching groups wanted to participate in the "Shadow Walk", car clubs wanted to transport injured and disabled Veterans so that they to could participate

2) The Wall was going to be open 24-hours a-day/ 4 days attended to by an Honor Guard of Veterans. The area was to be lighted 24-hours a day. The Celebration and Parade was going to last one morning or afternoon. Both events were going to be separated by sufficient distance as to keep the solemn presentation of The Wall and the celebration apart, yet allow for people to walk over or ride by golf cart. A "shadow walk" was going to be held on a separate evening to honor deceased veterans. This walk would be close by and have a candle lighting close to the Wall

3) The Wall has a cost, like it or not. To pay for The Wall, and other portions of the celebration a Dinner/Dance and sponsorships were planned. In addition, The Entertainment Department had offered to assist with both a pre "charity" event at Savannah Center AND a "named" concert. Their words. They offered to put a down payment to secure The Wall. None of these promises took place.

4) The only venue capable of providing sufficient off the street parking for cars and golf carts was the Polo Field. The only area providing some shade was the Polo Field. The only area that could handle people watching comfortably, being able to walk between The celebration and The Wall without risking injury was the Polo Field. The only area that was not in the middle of an active commerical shopping center and that didn't require the closing of streets was The Polo Field. The only area where spectators could watch the fly-over with a respectable missing plane formation in honor of deceased veterans without being hit by a distracted driver was the Polo Field. The only area where hundresd/thousands of people could participate in the "Shadow Walk" without risking a car accident was the Polo Field. The only area that did not have truck traffic roaring next to it was the Polo Field. It would have been very peaceful and solemn with a truck blaring its horn next to The Wall or a line up of truck traffic waiting for a Macdonald next to The Wall. The only area where 24-hour security for The Wall and sponsor and participating organization tentswas the polo Field. Did I bore you enough yet??

4) With all due respect to Al Young of the Vietnam Veterans of America CommericaL Property Management did the only smart thing. The question is why the Entertainment Department pushed the commerical areas when both areas had the same "liability" issues; meaning too dangerous?

5) I don't question the Villages legitimate concern for damage to The Polo Field; I do question their lack of concern when presented with information that their inital assessment was incorrect. I do question their failure to sit down with us to review the material, I do question their failure to call the vendor and ask him to review installation procedures again, I do question their failure to contact previous hosts who had brought and installed The Wall to other areas and ask them how the installation went and how much damage was caused. These failures cannot be explained.

6) Meanwhile the Golf Fest, Christmas Parades, Hoe Downs, the proposed Renaisaince Fair in September, horse pulls, concerts, etc. are encouraged to use the Polo Field for the same reasons why we wanted to. Ability to handle large groups and safety.

7) Don't kid yourself Mark Morse knew exactly what the plans were, and if he wanted us to work together to find a way to bring these activities to fruition it would have happened. But Mark didn't care. Why? I don't know.

Even a great person can make mistakes and is not beneath criticism. Grand Dad Harold Schwartz and Dad Gary Morse would never have let this occur.
This sure is an intelligent response. Please reread the last lines. This isn't about the whole family or the people who built this development up until now. You can never change ones opinion but you can state what happened in one situation without lumping it into a bashing of a poster. I for one appreciate all the work that Togetherwecare put in to try to bring this event to the Villages and all the time it took to write two intelligent posts.

[Pturner]

My landlord owns property that would be perfect for my charity's event. Since it would be perfect, we do not want to hold our event anywhere else. We won't accept a lesser offer of another property from the my landlord, because the other property is not as perfect for us as the property we want.

Also, we don't want just one event but more than a half dozen because all of my sister charities want in on the act. No one has ever brought all these charities together before and we cannot do it either without my landlord letting us use the specific property we want because no other is as perfect; coordinating some of our events; paying for some of them; having all of his departments meet with us to coordinate logistics; coordinating yet more events to raise funds for us and taking the advice of a saleman on the safety of his product over the advice of his own experts.

My landlord will not agree to all of this. He should be ashamed of himself.

Of course, I haven't heard the other side of the story yet. :throwtomatoes:

[chuckster]

My landlord owns property that would be perfect for my charity's event. Since it would be perfect, we do not want to hold our event anywhere else. We won't accept a lesser offer of another property from the my landlord, because the other property is not as perfect for us as the property we want.

Also, we don't want just one event but more than a half dozen because all of my sister charities want in on the act. No one has ever brought all these charities together before and we cannot do it either without my landlord letting us use the specific property we want because no other is as perfect; coordinating some of our events; paying for some of them; having all of his departments meet with us to coordinate logistics; coordinating yet more events to raise funds for us and taking the advice of a saleman on the safety of his product over the advice of his own experts.

My landlord will not agree to all of this. He should be ashamed of himself.

Of course, I haven't heard the other side of the story yet. :throwtomatoes:


I like it, no...I love it. Great analogy

:BigApplause:

[golfnut]

"7) Don't kid yourself Mark Morse knew exactly what the plans were, and if he wanted us to work together to find a way to bring these activities to fruition it would have happened. But Mark didn't care. Why? I don't know.

Even a great person can make mistakes and is not beneath criticism. Grand Dad Harold Schwartz and Dad Gary Morse would never have let this occur."

Quote above from togetherwecan. Statement # 7 is totally your opinion, which you are entitled to, but if you never spoke or met with Mark directly it is a meaningless statement in my opinion, sounds like sour grapes to me. Who's kidding who, you never met with Mark so you don't know what his involvement was, and to make a statement that he didn't care is wrong.

Last statement about Harold and Gary is once again totally subjective, you have no way of knowing what they may have done under the circumstances.

I'm sure TV is presented with all kinds of events that are turned down every year. The fact that yours was one of them is just another statistic, doesn't mean it is not a worthwhile event, if you truly believe in this event it will still happen. I just don't believe you needed to go where you did, see #7 above and look at the title of this thread, Mark Morse Kills Veterans....., oh and thanks for thread #2.......................gn

pturner, well said

[skyguy79]

My landlord owns property that would be perfect for my charity's event. Since it would be perfect, we do not want to hold our event anywhere else. We won't accept a lesser offer of another property from the my landlord, because the other property is not as perfect for us as the property we want.

Also, we don't want just one event but more than a half dozen because all of my sister charities want in on the act. No one has ever brought all these charities together before and we cannot do it either without my landlord letting us use the specific property we want because no other is as perfect; coordinating some of our events; paying for some of them; having all of his departments meet with us to coordinate logistics; coordinating yet more events to raise funds for us and taking the advice of a saleman on the safety of his product over the advice of his own experts.

My landlord will not agree to all of this. He should be ashamed of himself.

Of course, I haven't heard the other side of the story yet. :throwtomatoes:

"7) Don't kid yourself Mark Morse knew exactly what the plans were, and if he wanted us to work together to find a way to bring these activities to fruition it would have happened. But Mark didn't care. Why? I don't know.

Even a great person can make mistakes and is not beneath criticism. Grand Dad Harold Schwartz and Dad Gary Morse would never have let this occur."

Quote above from togetherwecan. Statement # 7 is totally your opinion, which you are entitled to, but if you never spoke or met with Mark directly it is a meaningless statement in my opinion, sounds like sour grapes to me. Who's kidding who, you never met with Mark so you don't know what his involvement was, and to make a statement that he didn't care is wrong.

Last statement about Harold and Gary is once again totally subjective, you have no way of knowing what they may have done under the circumstances.

I'm sure TV is presented with all kinds of events that are turned down every year. The fact that yours was one of them is just another statistic, doesn't mean it is not a worthwhile event, if you truly believe in this event it will still happen. I just don't believe you needed to go where you did, see #7 above and look at the title of this thread, Mark Morse Kills Veterans....., oh and thanks for thread #2.......................gn

pturner, well saidNO TOMATO'S HERE Pt! http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn245/marie01_08/Smileys%20and%20Stuff/th_AnimatedBravoSmiley.gif to both of you!

[memason]

My landlord owns property that would be perfect for my charity's event. Since it would be perfect, we do not want to hold our event anywhere else. We won't accept a lesser offer of another property from the my landlord, because the other property is not as perfect for us as the property we want.

Also, we don't want just one event but more than a half dozen because all of my sister charities want in on the act. No one has ever brought all these charities together before and we cannot do it either without my landlord letting us use the specific property we want because no other is as perfect; coordinating some of our events; paying for some of them; having all of his departments meet with us to coordinate logistics; coordinating yet more events to raise funds for us and taking the advice of a saleman on the safety of his product over the advice of his own experts.

My landlord will not agree to all of this. He should be ashamed of himself.

Of course, I haven't heard the other side of the story yet. :throwtomatoes:

Well Done... :clap2:

I want to write an editorial, but I think I better stop right here...

[K9-Lovers]

Yes, PTurner, again you have shown your skills in analogical arguments. Bravo! :clap2:

And GN calls 'em right every time! :thumbup:

:agree:

[golf2140]

My landlord owns property that would be perfect for my charity's event. Since it would be perfect, we do not want to hold our event anywhere else. We won't accept a lesser offer of another property from the my landlord, because the other property is not as perfect for us as the property we want.

Also, we don't want just one event but more than a half dozen because all of my sister charities want in on the act. No one has ever brought all these charities together before and we cannot do it either without my landlord letting us use the specific property we want because no other is as perfect; coordinating some of our events; paying for some of them; having all of his departments meet with us to coordinate logistics; coordinating yet more events to raise funds for us and taking the advice of a saleman on the safety of his product over the advice of his own experts.

My landlord will not agree to all of this. He should be ashamed of himself.

Of course, I haven't heard the other side of the story yet. :throwtomatoes:


:BigApplause:

[swimdawg]

My opinion, expressed earlier in this thread is unchanged.

Togetherwecare states that
"the Golf Fest, Christmas Parades, Hoe Downs, the proposed Renaisaince Fair in September, horse pulls, concerts, etc. are encouraged to use the Polo Field for the same reasons why we wanted to. Ability to handle large groups and safety."

However, those events either make money, or cost very little. My opinion stands.

Meanwhile, the event is taking place in another location. So why belabor this issue?

EXACTLY! :agree

[golfnut]

I'm with ya swim and k9 and many others before, we've debated this one ad nauseum. i am truly sorry togetherwecan had this negative experience because i believe he is dealing with an extremely worthwhile cause and i thank him for all of his efforts. good luck togetherwecan and keep up the good work...gn

[robertj1954]

As both a proud Vietnam Veteran, (USAF) and an active supporter of wounded veterans, (Grateful American Coin) I am also disappointed to learn this event was canceled. From what was written, it was well thought out and planned and would have been a great tribute to both Veterans and our Troops serving today. I think we can all agree there is nobody more deserving of recognition then our military heroes and veterans.

There are always two sides to a story and it would be nice to hear from the other side exactly why they failed to support this event. I can understand the concern about damaging the polo field and the costs to repair. Perhaps some compromise might be reached agreeable to both sides? While it is too late for any celebration of this scale for 2011, perhaps with a meeting of the minds about the event, 2012 might be the year? :ho:

[graciegirl]

As both a proud Vietnam Veteran, (USAF) and an active supporter of wounded veterans, (Grateful American Coin) I am also disappointed to learn this event was canceled. From what was written, it was well thought out and planned and would have been a great tribute to both Veterans and our Troops serving today. I think we can all agree there is nobody more deserving of recognition then our military heroes and veterans.

There are always two sides to a story and it would be nice to hear from the other side exactly why they failed to support this event. I can understand the concern about damaging the polo field and the costs to repair. Perhaps some compromise might be reached agreeable to both sides? While it is too late for any celebration of this scale for 2011, perhaps with a meeting of the minds about the event, 2012 might be the year? :ho:

I am off campus, but I read in the POA newsletter that it was being held at the American Legion in early June. The American Legion grounds are contiguous to The Villages, right on Rolling Acres Road.

It wasn't cancelled.

[BigLew]

I too saw that the wall WILL be at the American Legion, so what's the real problem? the Villages group won't get credit for putting this on? that certainly does not seem honorable!

[K9-Lovers]

I am off campus, but I read in the POA newsletter that it was being held at the American Legion in early June. The American Legion grounds are contiguous to The Villages, right on Rolling Acres Road.

It wasn't cancelled.

Gracie is correct. The event was not cancelled. There never was an event on any schedule, so it is impossible for it to be "cancelled". Seems to me that the event planners/steering committee simply found a different location during their planning process. In that a veterans group is hosting the event, the location sounds very appropriate.

[Tbugs]

It is more appropriate to have the "Moving Wall" at the American Legion than on the Polo Grounds.

It is done, the American Legion has agreed to host the Wall. 'Nuff said on this matter.

[Togetherwecare]

Unforunately, despite what was written in the POA newsletter, the American Legion has declined to host the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall. The reason given was that there was insufficient time.

Like everything else written by me these are the facts. You may choose to actually investigate what occurred or speculate. You may check with the American Legion if you like. More important perhaps you should direct your speculation and questions to the Villages Entertainment Department, or to Mark Morse himself. Your choice.

Regardless this would have been a grand series of events that was planned to honor our past, present and, yes, future veterans. It was planned to be respectful with the Traveling Wall and solemn, and at the same time allow for a celebration of the sacrifices of our veterans and their families, including the families and soldiers of our local area, and the children and grand children of our Villages residents.

It was to included ALL or our Villages "Military Groups", non-profit groups aiding current military and their families, as well as many Villages groups who just wanted to show their support. Those of you who have voiced negativity towards our plans are in the small minority.

Unforunately, the support of the few whose assistance was necessary to provide the facilities to make these events come to fruition was not forthcoming. It is on their conscience that they could not care enough, like all those who were behind our plans, to support our troops.

You can refute my "opinions" all you want, but the two previous generations of thoughtful and intelligent leadership and solid businessmen WOULD NEVER HAVE SPIT in the faces of the Village's residents like the present generation of VILLAGES of Lake Sumter, Inc. has.
.

[Tbugs]

Take your gripe to the American Legion. It is their baliwick, not the Morse family's problem.

This is a war memorial. The American Legion is the one who should host it

Your post is insulting to the Morse family. If you do not like how the Morse family is handling everything, no one is forcing you to live here. You could even make money in selling your house as there are always buyers. Not too many places - especially in Florida - could you make money by selling your house. Looks like the Morse family is doing something right, doesn't it?

[golfnut]

are you done now?

[Indydealmaker]

Totally out of line!

[Walt.]

Unforunately, despite what was written in the POA newsletter, the American Legion has declined to host the Vietnam Memorial Traveling Wall. The reason given was that there was insufficient time.



So.... are we now to assume the American Legion is also anti-military?

[graciegirl]

Wait, wait, wait. Who do you direct these comments to? Tbugs? The original poster?

I posted that I read that the display would be at American Legion because I read that in the POA Bulletin.

I know that you are disappointed, but not having it here really doesn't mean we residents and frequent posters don't respect, support and honor our veterans.

Nor can I believe that the Morse family doesn't honor, support and respect our veterans. There is much evidence that they do.

It sounds very much like having it here was a HUGE undertaking both in logistics and financially.

[Tbugs]

Gracie,

The negative comments were directed at the American Legion for backing out of their deal - not at me.

Yes, the POA did say the Legion was going to have the Moving Wall. They now say the lead time was too short. Truth is they could not find enough volunteers among their membership to do the necessary work connected with the project.

Anyhow, it is up to the Morse family to decide what and what not to display on their property.

Enjoy this beautiful Palm Sunday in The Villages to the fullest.

[katezbox]

Gracie,

Enjoy this beautiful Palm Sunday in The Villages to the fullest.

And maybe, during this holy week, find time to say a prayer of thanks to all of those whose names are on that wall, as well as to their families - and to all who served our country and made the ultimate sacrifice.

k

[swimdawg]

And maybe, during this holy week, find time to say a prayer of thanks to all of those whose names are on that wall, as well as to their families - and to all who served our country and made the ultimate sacrifice.

k
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Couldn't agree more.

[jflynn1]

I found this article very interesting . If true very disturbing.
More disturbing, the writer has not taken credit for the article. If you are going to make accusations this serious you should not hide behind an organization, especially a veterans organization.

[Talk Host]

If you do not like how the Morse family is handling everything, no one is forcing you to live here. You could even make money in selling your house as there are always buyers. Not too many places - especially in Florida - could you make money by selling your house. Looks like the Morse family is doing something right, doesn't it?


Yikes, you mean that if anybody takes issue with the developer, they should sell their house and leave???? Love it our leave it????? Wow!!!! I wonder if they would be eligible for political asylum elsewhere.

[paulandjean]

Look at it this way"maybe next year"Sometimes you have to wait.Never read into this as this will never happen. Relax

[Bogie Shooter]

Totally out of line!

What is out of line??

[Russ_Boston]

What is out of line??

My guess - a pulled post.

[Tbugs]

Talk Host -

I said that if someone did not agree with the Morse family decisions, they are not being forced to stay. I did not suggest that they should move. Why take something out of context?

If I had major problems with the internal workings of a community, I may not choose to live there any longer. It is an individual choice.

I have heard people say if they could move from a certain community or location and not lose money on the sale of their house, it would be a done deal. As I stated in my post, chances are you will make money on the sale of a Villages home.

I am staying very civil in my tone. Please do not take my words and twist them so it would seem like I am an authoritarian.

[golfnut]

Tbugs makes an excellent point :popcorn:

[Challenger]

I have found that the developer and most people in The Villages react quite rationally to situations that arise. I guess the experiences of a lifetime reduce the tendency to jump and react brashly. There seem to be a number of reasons why this project hasn't taken hold, and flinging insults at those who find the circumstances of the event to be unworkable is not fair.

Maybe the project proponents should look inwardly and ask themselves why this event at this time is not working. It is most objectionable that they would publicly question the sincerity and, or patriotism of those who are unwilling to participate for what appear to me to be good reason.

[ajdeck]

I have found that the developer and most people in The Villages react quite rationally to situations that arise. I guess the experiences of a lifetime reduce the tendency to jump and react brashly. There seem to be a number of reasons why this project hasn't taken hold, and flinging insults at those who find the circumstances of the event to be unworkable is not fair.

Maybe the project proponents should look inwardly and ask themselves why this event at this time is not working. It is most objectionable that they would publicly question the sincerity and, or patriotism of those who are unwilling to participate for what appear to me to be good reason.



The Villages is what it is due to the Morse family and aren't we here because of what they have given us? If so don't you think that they (in general) would try to keep this place as close to what was developed as possible.

So when something comes up that could hinder our life style or safety (traffic, stealing etc) wouldn't you think that has to be a concerd?

I think this was more about the safety and liability of 'OUR' community than anything and not pointed at anti war vets.


Look at the whole picture...

aj

[Larry Wilson]

I have found that the developer and most people in The Villages react quite rationally to situations that arise. I guess the experiences of a lifetime reduce the tendency to jump and react brashly. There seem to be a number of reasons why this project hasn't taken hold, and flinging insults at those who find the circumstances of the event to be unworkable is not fair.

Maybe the project proponents should look inwardly and ask themselves why this event at this time is not working. It is most objectionable that they would publicly question the sincerity and, or patriotism of those who are unwilling to participate for what appear to me to be good reason.

Too busy to be posting so I'm not looking for an argument. I just want to say that for years people have been working to get an indoor gym for the 80,000 and all the sports that can only be played in a gym. Many petitions, signatures, and money offered. We promised it to be a money maker as we were all willing to pay. We were all given hope for years. This year for the first time, we were told "NEVER". This is just one more small example of the changes I see under Mark. No bashing. I won't be back on TOTV for days as I'm just too busy playing in gyms in other places-I maean out of state.

[skyguy79]

I have found that the developer and most people in The Villages react quite rationally to situations that arise. I guess the experiences of a lifetime reduce the tendency to jump and react brashly. There seem to be a number of reasons why this project hasn't taken hold, and flinging insults at those who find the circumstances of the event to be unworkable is not fair.

Maybe the project proponents should look inwardly and ask themselves why this event at this time is not working. It is most objectionable that they would publicly question the sincerity and, or patriotism of those who are unwilling to participate for what appear to me to be good reason.In addition to what you've said, perhaps it's time to put the blame game to an end and start looking forward with planning toward next year, planning that would reduce the possibility of excuses and planning that will make sure that it happens.

Continuing any blame game can only breed resentment that could hinder any efforts towards making sure it will eventually become a reality. Ultimitely, success comes from positive, not negative thinking and actions, and that thinking has to begin with planners!

[Challenger]

In addition to what you've said, perhaps it's time to put the blame game to an end and start looking forward with planning toward next year, planning that would reduce the possibility of excuses and planning that will make sure that it happens.

Continuing any blame game can only breed resentment that could hinder any efforts towards making sure it will eventually become a reality. Ultimitely, success comes from positive, not negative thinking and actions, and that thinking has to begin with planners!

Well said:BigApplause:

[Xavier]

Too busy to be posting so I'm not looking for an argument. I just want to say that for years people have been working to get an indoor gym for the 80,000 and all the sports that can only be played in a gym. Many petitions, signatures, and money offered. We promised it to be a money maker as we were all willing to pay. We were all given hope for years. This year for the first time, we were told "NEVER". This is just one more small example of the changes I see under Mark. No bashing. I won't be back on TOTV for days as I'm just too busy playing in gyms in other places-I maean out of state.

I'm not looking for an argument either, but you've made some pretty bold statements that just can't stand alone. Who are WE? I never signed a petition. I never promised it would be a money maker, I never was willing to pay. Who are WE, all 80,000 of us? Perhaps the High School and Elementary School gyms have some unused time the WE could take advantage of.

Just asking.

Xavier

[Bogie Shooter]

I have never been told that TV lifestyle included a gym. Go to last weeks "Our Place " in the recreational news....good article explaining why there are no gyms, indoor pools, racket ball courts, etc.

[graciegirl]

I have never been told that TV lifestyle included a gym. Go to last weeks "Our Place " in the recreational news....good article explaining why there are no gyms, indoor pools, racket ball courts, etc.

I'm not on campus and there are a lot of us who had to go north :cry: and can't get our paws on that issue Bogie. Could you kind of give us the gist of the article?

[Mikeod]

Gracie - I'm not Bogie, but the article basically said that the entire Villages is already planned out, including all the rec centers and what they will or will not contain. To alter the plans for a rec center, say south of 466a, to contain a gym or indoor pool instead of what was already planned may solve the problems of those who want those amenities, but at the cost of removing amenities for those who live near those rec centers. Let's say they put the gym or indoor pool at Odell instead of the meeting rooms, billiard room, etc. Residents of that area would have to go to Truman, or elsewhere to get the same amenities others have at their neighborhood rec center. Is that fair? Apparently the developer thinks not.

[Bogie Shooter]

I'm not on campus and there are a lot of us who had to go north :cry: and can't get our paws on that issue Bogie. Could you kind of give us the gist of the article?

They are posted on the VCDD web site under Recreation Department. Here is the one I was referring to. Enjoy.
http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/app/files/recnews.pdf

[Challenger]

Indoor pools are incredibly expensive with high operating costs. If there was a viable market for one , an entrepeneur would construct one someplace near or in The Villages. Many people will answer surveys indicating that they want something until they are called upon to share the costs or pay a fee that covers the costs. I really don't understand what a gym would be used for. Can someone enlighten me ?

[Larry Wilson]

A large indoor facility could provide a venue for indoor basketball, volleyball, soccer, gymnastics, hockey, tennis, track, martial arts, badminton, and squash/racquetball/handball courts. An indoor pool would provide those who can't take the sun (as is true about all the above) with pool exercise and pool sport opportunities. The school can handle very little for villagers, as the student groups need the facilities 90% of the time, so those facilities are not adequate for the needs of our large community. Hope this helps.

[graciegirl]

A large indoor facility could provide a venue for indoor basketball, volleyball, soccer, gymnastics, hockey, tennis, track, martial arts, badminton, and squash/racquetball/handball courts. An indoor pool would provide those who can't take the sun (as is true about all the above) with pool exercise and pool sport opportunities. The school can handle very little for villagers, as the student groups need the facilities 90% of the time, so those facilities are not adequate for the needs of our large community. Hope this helps.

But....Larry. One can play basketball, volleyball, soccer,hockey, and tennis outside. That's the reason we moved to Florida.


And um...gymnastics...for the over 55 bunch???

[skyguy79]

But....Larry. One can play basketball, volleyball, soccer,hockey, and tennis outside. That's the reason we moved to Florida.

And um...gymnastics...for the over 55 bunch???Hey Gracie, how about you and me give it a go! :1rotfl:

http://www.myemoticons.com/images/sports/gymnastics/uneven-bars.gif http://www.myemoticons.com/images/sports/gymnastics/horse.gif (http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/sports/gymnastics/horse-012280/) http://www.myemoticons.com/images/sports/gymnastics/balance-beam.gif (http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/sports/gymnastics/balance-beam-012281/) http://www.myemoticons.com/images/sports/gymnastics/floor.gif (http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/sports/gymnastics/floor-012282/)

[Larry Wilson]

What a waste of time posting! I was answering a question. Its obivious you never played these sports inside or out. Playing sports outside is NOT why I moved to Florida.

[chuckster]

What a waste of time posting! I was answering a question. Its obivious you never played these sports inside or out. Playing sports outside is NOT why I moved to Florida.

Enlighten us when you return to your mail (said you were away for several days) ....why did you move to florida? Incidentally, I also never agreed to fund an indoor facility with my amenity fees nor did I expect one when we moved here.

[Russ_Boston]

Playing sports outside is NOT why I moved to Florida.

Odd. That's EXACTLY why I'm moving to FL. Well, to each his own. And yes, I play every sport you mentioned. OK, not the gymnastics:)

[graciegirl]

What a waste of time posting! I was answering a question. Its obivious you never played these sports inside or out. Playing sports outside is NOT why I moved to Florida.

That's where you are wrong Mary Jane. I was tall for a girl and I played basketball in high school. Our neighborhood had a volleyball group, and I always played tennis and golf. I also played racquetball but never soccer or hockey. I took ballet well into my forties. But I really meant it when I questioned you about gymnastics for seniors.

I am sorry you are disappointed about having no gym, but what made you think you would have an indoor gym? Were you misled by a sales person or did you not understand that this is a CDD form of government?

[katezbox]

Too busy to be posting so I'm not looking for an argument. I just want to say that for years people have been working to get an indoor gym for the 80,000 and all the sports that can only be played in a gym. Many petitions, signatures, and money offered. We promised it to be a money maker as we were all willing to pay. We were all given hope for years. This year for the first time, we were told "NEVER". This is just one more small example of the changes I see under Mark. No bashing. I won't be back on TOTV for days as I'm just too busy playing in gyms in other places-I maean out of state.

Larry,

Two thoughts - one is that TV is pretty planned our in advance. The second is that maybe Mark Morse is being more truthful. At least you got an answer - not more stalling.

Not tying to argue either...

k

[logdog]

I started watching this post early on because I was interested in the Traveling Wall. When the discussions started getting more contentious than informative, I tuned out. Now I clicked on the last page to see if the American Legion was still hosting this event only to find that the discussion morphed into indoor swimming pools!!! I had to go back 4 pages to find out that the American Legion wasn't able to host after all (the Wall, not the pools).

I'm calling out the hijack cops on all y'all. You guys make my head hurt...

[graciegirl]

Guilty Logdog. Sorry.:cry:

[KathieI]

I started watching this post early on because I was interested in the Traveling Wall. When the discussions started getting more contentious than informative, I tuned out. Now I clicked on the last page to see if the American Legion was still hosting this event only to find that the discussion morphed into indoor swimming pools!!! I had to go back 4 pages to find out that the American Legion wasn't able to host after all (the Wall, not the pools).

I'm calling out the hijack cops on all y'all. You guys make my head hurt...

Yeah Boy!! (as we say in the south.)

I don't think TOTV has a hijack cop any more - me thinks he's out eating donuts.... LOL. :police:

[Xavier]

I started watching this post early on because I was interested in the Traveling Wall. When the discussions started getting more contentious than informative, I tuned out. Now I clicked on the last page to see if the American Legion was still hosting this event only to find that the discussion morphed into indoor swimming pools!!! I had to go back 4 pages to find out that the American Legion wasn't able to host after all (the Wall, not the pools).

I'm calling out the hijack cops on all y'all. You guys make my head hurt...

Try slipping a pillow between your head and your keyboard. Worked for me!

Xavier

[logdog]

Try slipping a pillow between your head and your keyboard. Worked for me!

Xavier

I tried that and now I've got feathers everywhere...

[ajdeck]

I started watching this post early on because I was interested in the Traveling Wall. When the discussions started getting more contentious than informative, I tuned out. Now I clicked on the last page to see if the American Legion was still hosting this event only to find that the discussion morphed into indoor swimming pools!!! I had to go back 4 pages to find out that the American Legion wasn't able to host after all (the Wall, not the pools).

I'm calling out the hijack cops on all y'all. You guys make my head hurt...


Amen to that...


aj

[skyguy79]

I'm calling out the hijack cops on all y'all. You guys make my head hurt...Ya lookn' fer me lad?

http://networkoffun.com/Images/stop.jpg

[The Great Fumar]

I promised I would stay out of this and not comment but its just to juicy not to...
First of all we could have had a wall , The Morse's were leaning our way ,but no we couldn't leave it at that , we had to start piling on things like traveling bands , floats, Elvis Presley lookalike contests, a retired space shuttle , the Boston Philharmonic orchestra , Top Gun and Red Flag dueling at 2000 ft. and Lee Greenwood in a Ugo...and why do we have to send Greenwood a Royalty every time we want to stand up? We never did it for Kate Smith or Francis Langford...
I'm a Korean Vet and if you want to see a Wall then do what I did , go to Washington DC and see the real thing,
I don't need a song, show me a FLAG.....
"As you were, I'll be in the area all day."

[Challenger]

I promised I would stay out of this and not comment but its just to juicy not to...
First of all we could have had a wall , The Morse's were leaning our way ,but no we couldn't leave it at that , we had to start piling on things like traveling bands , floats, Elvis Presley lookalike contests, a retired space shuttle , the Boston Philharmonic orchestra , Top Gun and Red Flag dueling at 2000 ft. and Lee Greenwood in a Ugo...and why do we have to send Greenwood a Royalty every time we want to stand up? We never did it for Kate Smith or Francis Langford...
I'm a Korean Vet and if you want to see a Wall then do what I did , go to Washington DC and see the real thing,
I don't need a song, show me a FLAG.....
"As you were, I be in the area all day."

:BigApplause:

[mgm4444]

I tried that and now I've got feathers everywhere...

ok - this is one of the funniest posts I read in a long time!! I'm bellylaughing like a 3 year old!!:girlneener::girlneener:

[skyguy79]

I tried that and now I've got feathers everywhere...I hope for your sake there wasn't any tar involved! :1rotfl:

[katezbox]

Ya lookn' fer me lad?

http://networkoffun.com/Images/stop.jpg

Actually, look at the original post. it was less about WHERE the wall might be, and more about the Morse family "preventing" it. Not for nothing, those talking about the Morse family's opposition to a gym are in keeping with the original thread... JMHO.

[skyguy79]

Actually, look at the original post. it was less about WHERE the wall might be, and more about the Morse family "preventing" it. Not for nothing, those talking about the Morse family's opposition to a gym are in keeping with the original thread... JMHO.You'll need to redirect your comments to lapdog. I was just making a humorus play on lapdog's statement... "I'm calling out the hijack cops on all y'all" and in no way was it intended to have anything to do with what was said in lapdogs first paragraph!