Our society has crossed a line

[Taj44]

This is completely off the track, but when I read about dogs it brings this to mind. My daughter-in-law just spent about $5,000 on hip replacement surgery for her dog. Don't get me wrong, my spouse and I are ardent pet lovers, but it somehow seems a crime to me when I think of the millions of dollars that are spent each year on animals, when there are real people out there who could really use the things money could buy. That $5,000 could have helped a child from a poor family pay for their first year of college, for example. When my cat got elderly, the vet recommened a series of expensive treatments to prolong the animal's life. As much as I loved my cat, he was 17 years old, and in my mind, enough is enough. I'm not going to prolong his life with painful shots, when he's having trouble moving around and barely eats anymore. I had him put to sleep, which in my mind was the more humane action. My husband and I both worked for years, and are quite well off although we're not the types to flaunt it, so its not about the money. It just seems there is a line our society has crossed that places more value on the lives of these animals than other human beings.

[graciegirl]

This is completely off the track, but when I read about dogs it brings this to mind. My daughter-in-law just spent about $5,000 on hip replacement surgery for her dog. Don't get me wrong, my spouse and I are ardent pet lovers, but it somehow seems a crime to me when I think of the millions of dollars that are spent each year on animals, when there are real people out there who could really use the things money could buy. That $5,000 could have helped a child from a poor family pay for their first year of college, for example. When my cat got elderly, the vet recommened a series of expensive treatments to prolong the animal's life. As much as I loved my cat, he was 17 years old, and in my mind, enough is enough. I'm not going to prolong his life with painful shots, when he's having trouble moving around and barely eats anymore. I had him put to sleep, which in my mind was the more humane action. My husband and I both worked for years, and are quite well off although we're not the types to flaunt it, so its not about the money. It just seems there is a line our society has crossed that places more value on the lives of these animals than other human beings.

I understand your point of view, but how people choose to spend their money is a matter of personal values.

To some people even those who have children, a dog or cat is a loved person and a family member. That is lovely in its own way to me.

There are those who might say to those who pay a lot of money to golf that the money would be better spent on a poor childs college education.

I have not chosen to prolong our kitties lives, the last three lived to be 19. But if a person chooses expensive veterinary treatment, all I would hope is that they are seeing an ethical veterinarian and not one who is inventing things or giving false hope....for a whole lot of money. I would hope that for my friends and their choice of doctors too.

Right and wrong used to be so clear to me. Now I see many more shades of gray than black and white.

[Taj44]

I understand your point of view, but how people choose to spend their money is a matter of personal values.

That was exactly my point. Of course people are free to spend their money as they choose. But its just not ethical veternary treatment - its expensive dog grooming, dog clothing, premier pet food, doggie daycare, you name it. I read somewhere it costs on average about $1700 per year to have a dog. As you said, they are valued family friends and we derive a great deal of enjoyment from them. But some of these expenditures just seem a little over the line to me. It seems to me that society's values have changed over time. It used to be we placed more value as a society on human beings than on pets.

[Pturner]

This is completely off the track, but when I read about dogs it brings this to mind. My daughter-in-law just spent about $5,000 on hip replacement surgery for her dog. Don't get me wrong, my spouse and I are ardent pet lovers, but it somehow seems a crime to me when I think of the millions of dollars that are spent each year on animals, when there are real people out there who could really use the things money could buy. That $5,000 could have helped a child from a poor family pay for their first year of college, for example. When my cat got elderly, the vet recommened a series of expensive treatments to prolong the animal's life. As much as I loved my cat, he was 17 years old, and in my mind, enough is enough. I'm not going to prolong his life with painful shots, when he's having trouble moving around and barely eats anymore. I had him put to sleep, which in my mind was the more humane action. My husband and I both worked for years, and are quite well off although we're not the types to flaunt it, so its not about the money. It just seems there is a line our society has crossed that places more value on the lives of these animals than other human beings.

Hi Taj,
I respect your perspective but agree with Gracie on this.

If your DIL's $5,000 would have been better spent on a poor family, wouldn't that be equally true for any of our other discretionary spending. Perhaps it would be more true of other discretionary spending. After all, your DIL spent the money on a loved one. If that's not justified, why would it be justified to spend $250,000 for a house when one could get the same sized house for half that? How could one justify paying $35,000 for a car when $5,000 of that could have gone to a poor child's education. What about jewelry?

[Halle]

I have to agree with Pturner and Gracie on this issue. How someone chooses to spend their money is their business. I prefer to see it spend on the care of a beloved pet, but that is just me.

[skyguy79]

I have to agree with Pturner and Gracie on this issue. How someone chooses to spend their money is their business.Add me to that list!
http://images.yuku.com/image/gif/00f158466b4cc57bdacdfe36ef07a6b7a055ee0.gif

[Skybo]

That was exactly my point. Of course people are free to spend their money as they choose. But its just not ethical veternary treatment - its expensive dog grooming, dog clothing, premier pet food, doggie daycare, you name it. I read somewhere it costs on average about $1700 per year to have a dog. As you said, they are valued family friends and we derive a great deal of enjoyment from them. But some of these expenditures just seem a little over the line to me. It seems to me that society's values have changed over time. It used to be we placed more value as a society on human beings than on pets.

I’ve had a minimum of one, and usually two dogs in my life continuously for the past 30 years. I feed a premium diet and my breed of choice requires frequent grooming. I've never used day-care, but I think it's a good concept. Vet care is indeed very expensive, even if you aren’t faced with a major illness or injury. But those are expenses I take into account when thinking about bringing another dog into the family.

My beautiful heart-dog who passed away two years ago cost me many thousands of dollars over his lifetime as he had several odd health things that popped up, all fixable, but necessary and expensive. When we made the decision to let him go, it was because it was the best decision for him, it was time. But we had the most wonderful 13 years with him.

I don’t regret a penny of it, and I don’t miss whatever material things or extra vacations that we might have used it for. The money I spend on my dogs doesn’t take away from my charitable contributions, and it wouldn’t be going to charity if I didn’t have the dogs. It would be spent on some other personal need or interest. I can't speak for society as a whole, but I know that my expenditures don't mean that I place more value on animals than I do on humans. It means I value my animals more than whatever toy or hobby I might have otherwise.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

I’ve had a minimum of one, and usually two dogs in my life continuously for the past 30 years. I feed a premium diet and my breed of choice requires frequent grooming. I've never used day-care, but I think it's a good concept. Vet care is indeed very expensive, even if you aren’t faced with a major illness or injury. But those are expenses I take into account when thinking about bringing another dog into the family.

My beautiful heart-dog who passed away two years ago cost me many thousands of dollars over his lifetime as he had several odd health things that popped up, all fixable, but necessary and expensive. When we made the decision to let him go, it was because it was the best decision for him, it was time. But we had the most wonderful 13 years with him.

I don’t regret a penny of it, and I don’t miss whatever material things or extra vacations that we might have used it for. The money I spend on my dogs doesn’t take away from my charitable contributions, and it wouldn’t be going to charity if I didn’t have the dogs. It would be spent on some other personal need or interest. I can't speak for society as a whole, but I know that my expenditures don't mean that I place more value on animals than I do on humans. It means I value my animals more than whatever toy or hobby I might have otherwise.

Ditto. Well said!

Bill :)

[batman911]

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.

[JimJoe]

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.

I also paid my own way through college with no loans, and law school with only a small loan. I worked multiple jobs. I went to community college and a state school. I qualified for the best named school but could not afford them. It kept me out of trouble too. People were screaming back then it could not be done. bull.
Same thing should apply now. It can be done. You just have to want it bad enough.. and sacrifice to get it.
JJ

[Halle]

I’ve had a minimum of one, and usually two dogs in my life continuously for the past 30 years. I feed a premium diet and my breed of choice requires frequent grooming. I've never used day-care, but I think it's a good concept. Vet care is indeed very expensive, even if you aren’t faced with a major illness or injury. But those are expenses I take into account when thinking about bringing another dog into the family.

My beautiful heart-dog who passed away two years ago cost me many thousands of dollars over his lifetime as he had several odd health things that popped up, all fixable, but necessary and expensive. When we made the decision to let him go, it was because it was the best decision for him, it was time. But we had the most wonderful 13 years with him.

I don’t regret a penny of it, and I don’t miss whatever material things or extra vacations that we might have used it for. The money I spend on my dogs doesn’t take away from my charitable contributions, and it wouldn’t be going to charity if I didn’t have the dogs. It would be spent on some other personal need or interest. I can't speak for society as a whole, but I know that my expenditures don't mean that I place more value on animals than I do on humans. It means I value my animals more than whatever toy or hobby I might have otherwise.

My sentiments exactly I wish I could have said it so well. I too have spent thousands of dollars on medical treatment for my beloved dogs and never regretted one cent.

•"We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." -- M. Acklam

[graciegirl]

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.

OH...how I agree with you.

I don't think it sounds harsh at all. I think it sounds like you do, did, are doing the right thing!!

[Taj44]

Hi Taj,
I respect your perspective but agree with Gracie on this.

If your DIL's $5,000 would have been better spent on a poor family, wouldn't that be equally true for any of our other discretionary spending. Perhaps it would be more true of other discretionary spending. After all, your DIL spent the money on a loved one. If that's not justified, why would it be justified to spend $250,000 for a house when one could get the same sized house for half that? How could one justify paying $35,000 for a car when $5,000 of that could have gone to a poor child's education. What about jewelry?

To be honest, I wrestle with my conscience over precisely those issues. I could afford a Porsche - I drive a smaller more environmentally friendly car. I"ve never been the type of person to be impressed by a lot of materialism, while I see a lot of people around here buying big homes, can't live without this luxury and that luxury. With all due respect, according to your logic, we are justified in spending every last penny on ourselves, and the heck with the unfortunate. I guess I feel there should be a line, a moral line, somewhere, on the spending and the giving, but its hard to tell where that line is. I know a lot of people do not give to charities or try in any way to help others. As far as the pets, of course we have an obligation to them for food, shelter, and health care, but what about some of the esoteric stuff that people spend money on - do we really need to spend $2000 on 17 year old fido's teeth? Designer dog clothes? etc, etc., etc. I mean a large percentage of the world lives on less than $2 a day. Think of all the good that money could do for human beings.

[JAV0108]

After reading the previous posts I felt that I had to respond to several things. First of all, my Daughter-in-law is in nursing school and is 80 thousand dollars in debt in student loans. 90 percent of the other students in her school are getting a free ride. With what I have seen and read, most of the "less fortunate" get all the breaks when it comes to getting an education if they want one. Now before you all blow up at this, I said "most". My son is also in college and is able to go because he served in the armed forces for 6 years. If he hadn't done that, he would not be going because he in no way could qualify for that "free ride". We don't have a choice on where our tax dollars go, so as far as I'm concerned, I already donate to a child's education. As for pet costs, I agree with what was said about it being my money and I should be able to spend it as I please. I own a dog and he gives me more pleasure than I could ever have imagined. As for my charitable contributions, I give to humans but I also give to the ASPCA and that is MY choice.

[villages07]

Related, but, slightly off-topic .... just yesterday the subject of Pet health insurance came up. A friend of mine with one large and one small dog pays approximately $25/month on doggie health insurance for the two. One pooch was having its teeth cleaned yesterday (under anesthesia) ... my friend said the charge would have been about $600 but will end up costing her about $100 out of pocket. She cited several other instances where it has come in handy.

That got me wondering how many pet owners invest in insurance. There seem to be so many routine and unusual medical requirements for pets that insurance would seem to be a good investment.

As to the $5K hip replacement, that was the owner's choice. If she didn't have the $5K to spend and went into debt for something she couldn't afford, that would be a bit irresponsible. We all have our own priorities.... who's to say what is right or wrong.

[mfp509]

I have a dog and a cat. For me, the age of the animal would certainly come into the picture and what sort of treatment would be involved and the prognosis. When my cat was young I spent probably around $3000 for tests, treatment etc to find out what was wrong with her. I would not have her put down without knowing what she had and if it was treatable. I'm so glad I went this route with her - she is a very happy 10 year old and worth every bit of the $3000 and much more to me. I am committed to my pets and won't give up on them (within reason).

[jchase]

I agree with Taj44!
:$:

[thistrucksforyou]

I would suggest that not every kid needs a college education. If parents want their kids to go to college, maybe the parents need to save the money necessary to fill their requirement. After all, they are their kids. Maybe they should not create kids they cannot afford to feed and educate. There is a choice. I some how managed to find a job and pay my own way through college and gained a lot of work experience and contacts along the way. How about having the kids show a little initative instead of having it all handed to them on a silver plate. I know this sounds harsh to some but I always appreciated that my parents taught me how to get through life on my own.
THANK YOU ! :BigApplause:

[Bogie Shooter]

Related, but, slightly off-topic .... just yesterday the subject of Pet health insurance came up. A friend of mine with one large and one small dog pays approximately $25/month on doggie health insurance for the two. One pooch was having its teeth cleaned yesterday (under anesthesia) ... my friend said the charge would have been about $600 but will end up costing her about $100 out of pocket. She cited several other instances where it has come in handy.

That got me wondering how many pet owners invest in insurance. There seem to be so many routine and unusual medical requirements for pets that insurance would seem to be a good investment.

As to the $5K hip replacement, that was the owner's choice. If she didn't have the $5K to spend and went into debt for something she couldn't afford, that would be a bit irresponsible. We all have our own priorities.... who's to say what is right or wrong.

I grew up on a farm in Ohio. We had many dogs that lived long and healthy lives...................never had any of their teeth cleaned. Sometimes I think the vets see people coming and suggest a lot of optional procedures. I think somtimes it is all very silly.

[K9-Lovers]

Well, most of you will be surprised when I say that I agree with the title of this thread started by Taj44, "Our Society Has Crossed a Line."

According to the American Pet Products Association (APPA), $17 billion was spent on pets in 1994 as compared to almost $51 billion in 2010. http://www.americanpetproducts.org/press_industrytrends.asp

Also, recent (recent to us oldsters) laws have been passed specifically protecting the rights of animals -- something that would have never been considered in our great grandfathers' times: The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, 1960, and The Wild Life Protection Act in 1972. Currently, the ASPCA is promoting legislature to control the breeding of dogs and the protection of factory farm animals.

Yes, we have crossed a line. We are moving toward more civility. Our civilization is progressing. Mahatma Gandhi said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated…I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by people from the cruelty of human kind.”

As we cross that line, and another, and another, and yet the next, let us recognize our failings, celebrate our newfound values, and scan the horizon for the next boundary to break.

[Pturner]

Well, most of you will be surprised when I say that I agree with the title of this thread started by Taj44, "Our Society Has Crossed a Line."

According to the American Pet Products Association (APPA), $17 billion was spent on pets in 1994 as compared to almost $51 billion in 2010. http://www.americanpetproducts.org/press_industrytrends.asp

Also, recent (recent to us oldsters) laws have been passed specifically protecting the rights of animals -- something that would have never been considered in our great grandfathers' times: The Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act, 1960, and The Wild Life Protection Act in 1972. Currently, the ASPCA is promoting legislature to control the breeding of dogs and the protection of factory farm animals.

Yes, we have crossed a line. We are moving toward more civility. Our civilization is progressing. Mahatma Gandhi said, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated…I hold that, the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by people from the cruelty of human kind.”

As we cross that line, and another, and another, and yet the next, let us recognize our failings, celebrate our newfound values, and scan the horizon for the next boundary to break.

Great thoughts, K-9. As usual.

[redwitch]

Would I spend $5K for a hip replacement for a beloved pet? It depends on the age of the pet, the prognosis, what it would add to its quality of life. I had a cat that was feline soul mate. She knew just by how I opened the door what I needed. No one else in the house did, not even my husband -- I had to tell him. I never had to say a word to Obby, she just knew. She got a kidney infection due to inflamed gums (teeth cleaning was not common then). I tried to convince my husband to let me take her to U.C. Davis where they were just beginning to do kidney transplants on cats. He refused, saying the $3K was money that could be put to better use. I don't think I ever forgave him for not giving her a chance. It would have been money well spent even if unsuccessful. Sometimes you have to give your pets every possible chance.

That being said, I do understand TAJ's point. There is an incredible amount of waste for things that truly aren't necessary and frequently not wanted by an animal (what self-respecting dog wants to wear a "cute" dress when it is 95 degrees out?). No animal needs an $80 carrier; that's the human's ego talking.

The reality is that humans spend a lot of money for things that are purely status. Personally, I would love to see someone donate to to the charity of their choice the difference between a regular golf cart and a Yesteryear cart. To me, it is an ultimate waste of money. However, a very dear friend owns one and loves it to death. Would I deprive her of something that makes her so happy? Nope. Would I tell her that I thought she could have put that money to much better use? I sincerely hope not (and she doesn't ever read TOTV, so I'm safe saying it). The same is true of the money spent on animals. If someone can afford it and it gives them pleasure, especially the pleasure of helping a living creature have a better life, GO FOR IT!

Do what is right for you so long as it doesn't hurt another. If you can look at yourself in the mirror and say you did the right thing for you, then nothing else and no one else's opinion should matter.

[whartonjelly]

I suppose that dog therapy is a lot less expensive that hospital admissions, antidepressants, therapists, massages, hot tubs , spas and whatever one can spend to start feeling human again. A dog does all that. They are great stress relievers.

My dogs agree with everything I say !:mademyday:

[Pturner]

Although K-9 Lovers posted the following in another thread, I think it explain well why a person might spend $5k to prolong the life of a beloved family dog:

... When you spend time with a dog who knows you well, and whom you know well, there is a strong connection between the two of you. The two of you can communicate with each other with a quick glance, with the sound of your breath, or the tap of a finger or paw. It is a language only you two share.

When your dog is having fun, you can feel it in your heart. It is very fulfilling to bring joy and pleasure to a dog, because they express their feelings so openly.

[These things are hard to understand until one has spent] time getting to really know the heart, emotions and intelligent mind of a dog. Until that connection is something you have experienced, it will be impossible ...to understand.

Sure, age of the dog, the quality of life for its remaining time and other factors would be a consideration for anyone faced with this decision. Caring deeply for a pet and providing for its welfare does not diminish a person's caring for other people. If anything, quite the contrary I think.

[Taj44]

Would I spend $5K for a hip replacement for a beloved pet? It depends on the age of the pet, the prognosis, what it would add to its quality of life. I had a cat that was feline soul mate. She knew just by how I opened the door what I needed. No one else in the house did, not even my husband -- I had to tell him. I never had to say a word to Obby, she just knew. She got a kidney infection due to inflamed gums (teeth cleaning was not common then). I tried to convince my husband to let me take her to U.C. Davis where they were just beginning to do kidney transplants on cats. He refused, saying the $3K was money that could be put to better use. I don't think I ever forgave him for not giving her a chance. It would have been money well spent even if unsuccessful. Sometimes you have to give your pets every possible chance.

That being said, I do understand TAJ's point. There is an incredible amount of waste for things that truly aren't necessary and frequently not wanted by an animal (what self-respecting dog wants to wear a "cute" dress when it is 95 degrees out?). No animal needs an $80 carrier; that's the human's ego talking.

The reality is that humans spend a lot of money for things that are purely status. Personally, I would love to see someone donate to to the charity of their choice the difference between a regular golf cart and a Yesteryear cart. To me, it is an ultimate waste of money. However, a very dear friend owns one and loves it to death. Would I deprive her of something that makes her so happy? Nope. Would I tell her that I thought she could have put that money to much better use? I sincerely hope not (and she doesn't ever read TOTV, so I'm safe saying it). The same is true of the money spent on animals. If someone can afford it and it gives them pleasure, especially the pleasure of helping a living creature have a better life, GO FOR IT!

Do what is right for you so long as it doesn't hurt another. If you can look at yourself in the mirror and say you did the right thing for you, then nothing else and no one else's opinion should matter.

Red, thanks for your reply. I agree with you up to a point. I guess I would change the last sentence to read - "If you can look yourself in the mirror and say you used your money to do the right things, then nothing else matters". Of course our needs matter and have priority, and no one was ever saying, don't have a pet, don't spend money on them. We love our pets and they do bring us great joy. My feeling is, we need to branch out and help others whenever possible, and sometimes if we can give up a little of these materialistic and unncessary things, we can make the world a better place.

[Taj44]

I grew up on a farm in Ohio. We had many dogs that lived long and healthy lives...................never had any of their teeth cleaned. Sometimes I think the vets see people coming and suggest a lot of optional procedures. I think somtimes it is all very silly.

Ditto!

[Taj44]

Well, most of you will be surprised when I say that I agree with the title of this thread started by Taj44, "Our Society Has Crossed a Line."

According to the American Pet Products Association (APPA), $17 billion was spent on pets in 1994 as compared to almost $51 billion in 2010. http://www.americanpetproducts.org/press_industrytrends.asp

That jump hasn't been fueled so much by pet-cost inflation as by human shopping weakness.

"There's a whole lot of new ways to spend money that you don't need to," said Stephen Zawistowski, the executive vice president for national programs at the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals in New York."
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/ConsumerActionGuide/TipsForKeepingPetCostsInCheck.aspx

The rep of ASPCA goes on to say all the other bling that people spend money on for their pets is not for the pet, its for you. The dog could care less if he has some of the high priced items.

As far a trying to prove that being a nation of people who spend too much money on their pets has somehow made us better human beings, I'm sorry, you lost me there. With all the money going up on spending costs for pets, I don't see a corresponding increase in charitable donations for human beings in need. And I still see our nation involved in wars and killing people overseas. Ghandi's quote referred to the way animals are treated. We've always treated our animals well. Over-spending on pets does not mean they are being treated more humanely, it just means we're spending more money that could be used elsewhere to help HUMANS.

[BogeyBoy]

We have pet insurance, have for a few years.

On the other hand we have not gone to extremes when our pets become ill - we have made that hard decision on when was the "right time" for their lives to end.

I had an employee once who went to the other extreme. He had an older dog that became ill. They spent thousands of dollars at the vet and when that vet said no more they traveled to Philadelphia for more extensive procedures. (I can't recall the name of the facility but it was well known for handling pets with serious illnesses.) To make a long story short the poor guy died and my employee was about $20,000 in debt. Plus the cost of the very fancy obituary in the local paper. The couple had no children and it was clear when reading the obit that that pet was their life. For us on the sidelines it seemed like they spent a lot of money on a pet that was at the end of his normal life expectancy. To them it was worth every penny to give the pet a chance for a little more time.

[K9-Lovers]

Just like humans, plaque and tartar on pets' teeth breeds bacteria that leads to heart disease and other medical problems. Brushing your dog's or cat's teeth keeps medical costs down in the long run. If you don't brush, then the annual teeth cleaning at the vet is very important.

[Skybo]

Re: teeth cleaning...A lot of dogs, maybe even a majority of dogs, have teeth that don’t present much of a problem, but many need brushing and/or specialized chews to keep their teeth clean and healthy...and others yet get tarter/plaque buildup no matter how what you do and this results in dental disease. Some of it is due to diet, some due to breed and some due to genetics.

I’ve had many, many dogs who haven’t needed any intervention on my part (that I knew of). But I now have one dog who needs daily brushing to keep his teeth clean. My other dog, in spite of all my efforts, still needs a dental done every couple of years. Since he’s a senior I also have to have blood work done to ensure he’s up for the anesthesia. If there are extractions (which there usually are for him), that’s an additional fee.

This isn’t an extravagance on my part, nor is it money grubbing on my Vet’s part. It’s a true medical requirement. At the least, poor dental health leads to bad breath and at the worst, poor dental health leads to an unhealthy dog and more Vet bills. Bacteria from (dirty or bad) teeth have a direct route into the bloodstream and are a major cause of heart disease in dogs.

[Skybo]

Just like humans, plaque and tartar on pets' teeth breeds bacteria that leads to heart disease and other medical problems. Brushing your dog's or cat's teeth keeps medical costs down in the long run. If you don't brush, then the annual teeth cleaning at the vet is very important.

:thumbup: Didn't see your post before I posted mine. Much more succinct than I managed to write. :ho:

[duffysmom]

The most charitable thing we can do is to stop judging others.

[K9-Lovers]

The most charitable thing we can do is to stop judging others.

:mademyday:

[marybb]

Agree with gracie.

[Hancle704]

Have to agree with the original post. We have crossed the line on many things. Latest cell phones, electronics and entertainment, thousands on pet care, while in our country there are children that go to bed hungry every night who do not receive medical and dental care.

Ask the Marion County Schools about the children living in Ocala National Forest in cardboard shacks or tents who only get a decent meal at school and go home on weekends with donated backpacks that contain food for the weekend.

[ilovetv]

The most charitable thing we can do is to stop judging others.

It's not judgemental to say that spending $5,000 on a pet hip replacement tells how far society has gone into unnecessary or futile spending on their pets, and priorities are getting skewed. Especially when the pet has 3 OTHER hips that are probably getting bad too....same skeletal system and bone density etc. Is a person going to spend $20,000 on hip replacements, when the dog has to naturally get debilitated and die sometime?

Is that $20,000 that won't be available to the family's kids, to put toward their college education?

I don't see anything wrong with getting others' viewpoints here on things going askew in society. Lord knows, many things ARE askew. Lots of good points were made from different perspectives.

Pointing out skewed priorities in society is not necessarily "judging" them to be all bad. It just says, "We need to take a look at our priorities here, in regard to our spending on pets versus humans."

I often wonder if some of our neighbors and acquaintances who spend thousands at a time for the dog's vet bills would so willingly accept a $5,000 deductible on their employer-paid health insurance, to lower premium costs.
I know some would have an absolute FIT if they had a $5,000 deductible on their own health insurance---they can't even stand a $10 co-pay on a prescription!

[Taj44]

Have to agree with the original post. We have crossed the line on many things. Latest cell phones, electronics and entertainment, thousands on pet care, while in our country there are children that go to bed hungry every night who do not receive medical and dental care.

Ask the Marion County Schools about the children living in Ocala National Forest in cardboard shacks or tents who only get a decent meal at school and go home on weekends with donated backpacks that contain food for the weekend.

Hancle, thanks for the post. That is exactly the idea I was trying to get across, which you expressed perfectly.

ilovetv - your message "I don't see anything wrong with getting others' viewpoints here on things going askew in society. Lord knows, many things ARE askew. Lots of good points were made from different perspectives." is very apt.

If we are to be dismissed because we have a different opinion about something, why have a discussion group? The whole point of an online group like this is to hear everyone's opinion. Sometimes, when a person with a different perspective points out a fact or an observation, it makes people wake up and say to themselves, "I never realized that", or "yes, that person is right, I could be doing more to help others", or whatever the discussion is about.

[K9-Lovers]

Hancle, thanks for the post. That is exactly the idea I was trying to get across, which you expressed perfectly.

ilovetv - your message "I don't see anything wrong with getting others' viewpoints here on things going askew in society. Lord knows, many things ARE askew. Lots of good points were made from different perspectives." is very apt.

If we are to be dismissed because we have a different opinion about something, why have a discussion group? The whole point of an online group like this is to hear everyone's opinion. Sometimes, when a person with a different perspective points out a fact or an observation, it makes people wake up and say to themselves, "I never realized that", or "yes, that person is right, I could be doing more to help others", or whatever the discussion is about.

That's why ya gotta love TOTV. So many bright, articulate, thoughtful and funny people sharing ideas, laughter and opinions.

:BigApplause: