The Liberals "Magic Elixir"; The Government Shutdown

[Guest]

The Liberals/Democrats are itching for it. Sen. Chuck Schumer is salivating for it. They figure if they can get the government shut down, the populace will blame it on the Republicans, because with their mainstream media allies they can hammer that talking point home hour after hour until it's pounded in the brain of ever non-thinking American.

Why negotiate with Republicans when you can just let the government shut down, and then with "chaos" in full swing the Republicans will cave in and give you everything you want and you can show Rep. Paul Ryan your backsides.

That is the budget plan of the Democrats. Will it work? We shall see.

[Guest]

Same thing basically as in 1995. Political game of chicken. Blink and you are the weakest.

[Guest]

Same thing basically as in 1995.

I'm not so sure about that. I think people are plenty fed up with the dems out of control spending... especially with ZERO results.

They are pulling out the same old talking points they've used for 30 years. I think people a wise to it.

[Guest]

Lassen, I see your point - but you are wrong. People have had enough of political arguing with no results from either side. I could put all the blame on Republicans and you could put all the blame on Democrats. Neither would accomplish anything and neither would be correct.

This is politics and is wrong for both sides. The taxpayer is the one who will take the shaft.

[Guest]

Someone has to clean it up. The Democrats have proven they will not.

[Guest]

When President Obama said that this budget could have been passed one, two or three months ago, he was deliberating hiding the truth. While he did not directly lie, he did not say that this budget was supposed to have been passed seven months ago. The budget year started October 1st and was the responsibility of the Obama White House and the Pelosi/Reed congress. They had the responsibility to have the finished budget in place in September.

We face this potential government shutdown because and only because Obama and the democratically controlled congress failed to do their job. One can only wonder if the looming shutdown was a carefully conceived plan put in place last September.

[Guest]

If either party wants to speed the process of getting a budget through I suggest a Congressional act that suspends pay of all appointed and elected Federal employees and eliminates the possibility of make-up pay for time off. This would include the President, the VP, the Cabinet members, the various Czars and all their appointed staffs. Similarly it would include all members of Congress and all of their various staffs. The government routinely uses the financial 'carrot and stick' approach with the citizens of this country. Do you think it would accomplish anything if used on them?

[Guest]

Just look at the past election results, the people demand action., not compromise with the socialists.

[Guest]

controlled congress (remember Nancy's gang?) there was open discussion why there would be NO activity to produce a budget for the last two years. Among excuses given why....the process would reveal too many embarrassing aspects of spending they did not want to come out during an election year.....they also openly stated after the November 2010 election it would be easier to now conduct budget processing including shutting down the operation of the government holding the republicans to blame.

The entire game (R/D) is to see how much of one's favorite projects can be preserved by holding up such excuses as no meals for seniors.

It is so simple isn't it? If we the people are not allowed....are not capable of spending more than we earn...not capable of spending more than what is in our check books...just exactly what changes when one becomes a member of the elitist 545 in Washington DC???

Government shutdown? Must be they do not consider themselves as part of the government as their pay and perks and spending continue.

Shameful and disgusting display by both parties of their open concern for themselves.....

btk

[Guest]

Government shutdown? Must be they do not consider themselves as part of the government as their pay and perks and spending continue.

Shameful and disgusting display by both parties of their open concern for themselves.....

btk

Okay, so this is what I don't understand about everybody equating both parties the same when discussing this coming government shutdown.

The Democrats will all stand defiantly together and refuse to budge from their demands for Obama's monster budget increases and will turn their back on the Republicans and give them the political "finger".

The Republican's want to slash the new budget and change the workings of some of the entitlement plans and defund some others to reduce the coming budget. The Democrats won't talk about it and insist on "their way or the highway". So, they'll filibuster the proposed budget and refuse to vote on it and thereby cause the infamous "government shutdown".

Somehow, this is still partly the Republican's fault because ...........Why???

Is it because they cannot persuade or seduce the Democrats into debating and voting on budget cuts?

Conservatives on this forum are upset because the Republican budget calls for reduced spending and not real and actual cuts in spending. The Democrats won't discuss reduced spending, let alone cuts in spending.

So, again, The Republicans have blame in this ......................How?

[Guest]

Just the cross the Party of No has to bear I guess.

[Guest]

Just the cross the Party of No has to bear I guess.

??????????????

[Guest]

Okay, so this is what I don't understand about everybody equating both parties the same when discussing this coming government shutdown.

The Democrats will all stand defiantly together and refuse to budge from their demands for Obama's monster budget increases and will turn their back on the Republicans and give them the political "finger".

The Republican's want to slash the new budget and change the workings of some of the entitlement plans and defund some others to reduce the coming budget. The Democrats won't talk about it and insist on "their way or the highway". So, they'll filibuster the proposed budget and refuse to vote on it and thereby cause the infamous "government shutdown".

Somehow, this is still partly the Republican's fault because ...........Why???

Is it because they cannot persuade or seduce the Democrats into debating and voting on budget cuts?

Conservatives on this forum are upset because the Republican budget calls for reduced spending and not real and actual cuts in spending. The Democrats won't discuss reduced spending, let alone cuts in spending.

So, again, The Republicans have blame in this ......................How?

They have blame because they campaigned that this time they would be different.. no more Rhinos.. but the old time Reps are Rhinos and will try every chance they get to go back to their old ways.. (Boehner whine whine whine .. we only have on half of one third of the gov)
.... and the tea party people are not going to take it anymore. If you do not want the job, get out of the way.
JJ

[Guest]

If there is a government shutdown - even for a day or a week - the Democrats are going to look like the good guys. There is no doubt in anyone's mind about that.

This same thing happened back in 1995. It was a political game of chicken over Newt's "Contract on America" and spending cuts. The government closed down for about 4 weeks. It cost millions of dollars in wasted money.

The voting public blamed Newt Gingrich and the Republicans. This was what propelled Bill Clinton on his re-election in 1996.

The same thing will happen if the tea party republicans refuse to negotiate in faith with the Democrats. Barak Obama will win re-election in 2012.

The voting public is much more liberal than the majority of contributers to this forum. They will not forget who (and they will remember Republicans) who cost them millions of dollars in wasted money when the Federal government closed.

Do not equate the ultra-conservative contributers of this little forum with the viewpoints of the nation-wide voters.

[Guest]

Polls show the public finally knows the truth. Liberals and Rhinos have spent this country into bankruptcy and they want it fixed. Do you not understand how serious this financial crisis is? The 2008 bust has only been delayed with massive borrowing, government spending, and FED printing money out of thin air. It all has to be paid for. Tea party people want to try to fix it before it is too late. It probably is already too late, sadly.
JJ

[Guest]

They have blame because they campaigned that this time they would be different.. no more Rhinos.. but the old time Reps are Rhinos and will try every chance they get to go back to their old ways.. (Boehner whine whine whine .. we only have on half of one third of the gov)
.... and the tea party people are not going to take it anymore. If you do not want the job, get out of the way.
JJ

This might be blame, in your eyes, because the proposed budget doesn't have actual cuts but only reduces the spending.

This does not answer the question on why the Republicans would have any blame for a government shutdown. If the Democrats are screaming bloody murder about a decrease in spending, don't you think they'd have apoplectic fits about real cuts. It's still totally their blame for the shutdown.

[Guest]

If there is a government shutdown - even for a day or a week - the Democrats are going to look like the good guys. There is no doubt in anyone's mind about that.

This same thing happened back in 1995. It was a political game of chicken over Newt's "Contract on America" and spending cuts. The government closed down for about 4 weeks. It cost millions of dollars in wasted money.

The voting public blamed Newt Gingrich and the Republicans. This was what propelled Bill Clinton on his re-election in 1996.

The same thing will happen if the tea party republicans refuse to negotiate in faith with the Democrats. Barak Obama will win re-election in 2012.

The voting public is much more liberal than the majority of contributers to this forum. They will not forget who (and they will remember Republicans) who cost them millions of dollars in wasted money when the Federal government closed.

Do not equate the ultra-conservative contributers of this little forum with the viewpoints of the nation-wide voters.

Sorry, but you're living in the past, I think, along with Sen. Chucky Schumer. The new America with people, especially Tea Party people, are way more aware today than in 1995. The proof is in the last election cycle. The same old tap dance and soft shoe routine is not going to get any applause this time around.

[Guest]

Richie -

I see your point and your vast insight on this matter.

[Guest]

Here is why I say it makes no difference who has the power. Why didn't the Repubs propose 6 trillion in cuts when they controlled the House,Senate,and Presidency? Instead they: broke all spending records,started 2 wars,gave tax cuts to the weathiest Americans,signed the first Wall St. bailout bill,and privatized Medicare Part D. Now the Dems come into power and what do they do? break the existing spending records,keep us fighting 2 failed wars,keep the tax cuts for the rich,bailout Wall St. and on and on. I see no difference in the 2 parties....they pretend to argue,but it's all show. They are all the same,bought and paid for by corporate America and a few other special interest groups.

[Guest]

Here is why I say it makes no difference who has the power. Why didn't the Repubs propose 6 trillion in cuts when they controlled the House,Senate,and Presidency? Instead they: broke all spending records,started 2 wars,gave tax cuts to the weathiest Americans,signed the first Wall St. bailout bill,and privatized Medicare Part D. Now the Dems come into power and what do they do? break the existing spending records,keep us fighting 2 failed wars,keep the tax cuts for the rich,bailout Wall St. and on and on. I see no difference in the 2 parties....they pretend to argue,but it's all show. They are all the same,bought and paid for by corporate America and a few other special interest groups.

I completely agree with you.. Demos and Rhinos gotta go.. so vote for Ron Paul and the tea party if you really want to see the spending under control.. and to all of you tea party people who like Sarah Palin think we needed to get into the Libya mess even before President Obama did, shame on you. Admit you were wrong and get back on the side of fiscal responsibility.
JJ

[Guest]

Richie -

I see your point and your vast insight on this matter.

ha ha

[Guest]

You're forgetting something. The Tea Party winners are being shown for their true colors. When the governor of Ohio did the same thing to public workers in that state that was done in Wisconsin, he claimed to be paring the budget. But when members of HIS staff were shown to have salaries approaching $200K he said that high salaries were needed to attract talent from the private sector.

This is the same line of reasoning that was used to justify huge bonuses to failed bank execs.

Just as the Democrats had their partisanship exposed, the Republicans are headed to that as well.

Bush and Obama bailed out GM to keep six figures worth of jobs from making a tsunami of unemployment - and jobs are actually on the increase. GM is in better shape now. As much as I don't like bailouts, this one seems to have worked (like the Chrysler bailout and the Conrail situation).

Now, there are some 800K federal workers - of which I'm one. I took this job for the security, though it was a bit of a pay cut. Because of the security, I made bets that I could hold on to my house through my divorce and I succeeded. Long term, I'm in far better shape than I was when my ex was 'out to get me'. The upshot is that I *am* mortgaged out. Defending myself has meant hardship for our younger daughter in that college is less attainable but she's working her tail off to make it happen.

I do my job and I do it well. I'm paid LESS than comparative positions in the private sector. The Republicans are trying to convince me that it's for the best if I'm furloughed and NOT paid (as some Republicans are beng quoted in some articles)?

Since neither party is really attacking the deficit, I don't support either one of them. You can't sit there and cry over NPR/PBS funding when you're still trying to produce a jet fighter engine that WE AT THE AIR FORCE DO NOT WANT. You can't claim that it's all the other guy's fault when a budget was supposed to be passed by October 1st - A MONTH BEFORE THE OPPOSITION PARTY WON ELECTIONS AND THREE MONTHS BEFORE THEY TOOK OFFICE!

[Guest]

I am not concern about a government shutdown. In fact it may be beneficial. Pols can't and won't ignore the basic needs of Americans. Beside the debate is the same old jawboning. What I am concerned about is the bigger picture. It seems whichever party is in we end up with the same old problems. I believe that is because the newbies or incumbents, as the case may be, coming in all are facing a "widow maker". Fraud, greed, mismanagement or incompetence each successive administration has added to this dilemma. Add to that unchecked egos and outlier (lobbyist, unions, etc) who really are pulling many of the strings and it is a wonder we are still surviving. I expect the only reason for this is that the governments of our enemies are more corrupt, etc then ours.

What "skin" in the game to pols have? After a short period of serivce they are entitled to benefits you and I could only dream of. How many of them even after 4 years walk out poor? They don't really have to perform. Heck Obama, while in Congress voted "present" most of the time. Even a trained parrot could do that.

I am not a tea party member but I do recognize that their basic benefit to us is there unity against specific issues, taxes, etc. I really believe that our only hope is to have conservatives, liberals and independents come together develop a platform they can all live with, and forgive the directness, " shove it down pols throats. If we ignore the term democratic/ republican, liberal , conservative and view our problems without those labels we will see that we have more in common than we are led to believe by our leaders whose only purpose in dividing us is to provide a "rasion d' etre" It is the only way we are going to come out of this tailspin. I have had this type of dialogue with several senators and representatives. As my Italian parents would say "Basta"! "Basta!" Enough! Enough!

[Guest]

Anyone who borrows 42 cents out of EVERY dollar they spend, whether it be a family, a business, local state or federal governments is just plain stupid or just plain evil.

Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves.

That's exactly what most in the government especially Democrats want, slaves. Slaves to the government, slaves to government programs and slaves to the vote to keep the handouts coming.

The Liberals have already pulled out their 30 year old playbook. Any time you talk about cutting spending, it's the Republicans who are out to starve senior citizens and put children out on the street.

Why do the Democrats say things like that? Because they don't want to do with one less dime that's why.

The truth is, they (the government) want slaves. Nowhere else to turn for your daily survival but them and their goal is to get more and more of them lined up. It's amazing to me that anyone falls for it. Why so many are willing to give up more and more of their freedom over to a bunch of lying politicians is beyond me.

Some people are panicked over a Government shutdown, even for a week or two? Really?

[Guest]

I am not at all happy with Pres. Obama's decision to bomb Libya so I'll give you that. However, its really annoying how Republicans conveniently forget the sad state of this country that George W. left. His decision to invade Iraq has been incredibly costly to this country and his refusal to properly tax the rich and big business are among the reasons we are where we are. Trying to dig your way out of this hole is like swimming against a tsunami and now following the fall elections Obama is left fighting the Republican majority at every turn so his effectiveness is severely hampered.

[Guest]

I am not at all happy with Pres. Obama's decision to bomb Libya so I'll give you that. However, its really annoying how Republicans conveniently forget the sad state of this country that George W. left. His decision to invade Iraq has been incredibly costly to this country and his refusal to properly tax the rich and big business are among the reasons we are where we are. Trying to dig your way out of this hole is like swimming against a tsunami and now following the fall elections Obama is left fighting the Republican majority at every turn so his effectiveness is severely hampered.

I agree with you on Bush screwing up this country but that is because he didnt veto anything, started wars WITH congressional approval WITHOUT PAYING FOR THEM.. took away our rights with the help of demo votes..and spent like a drunken sailor just like the dems (bought senior citizen votes with an UNPAID for prescription drug benefit... BOTH PARTIES ARE GUILTY AND THE TEA PARTY IS MAD AT BOTH OF YOU.
Both parties are guilty of over spending.. that is why the tea party is necessary. .. and please dont call us stupid, astro turf, or racists like demos frequently have done. Do you really think demos impress people with when they do that to us?
We are people who are sincerely interested in saving this country from bankruptcy.
JJ

[Guest]

Let's not forget that the Democrats held it all for 2 years and had congress for 4 years. Let's also not forget that Obama and the Democrats more than doubled our debt in only two short years when they had FULL control of everything. What did they fix? Nothing... in fact it's far worse now. GW didn't put us here today, Obama did.

[Guest]

Let's not forget that the Democrats held it all for 2 years and had congress for 4 years. Let's also not forget that Obama and the Democrats more than doubled our debt in only two short years when they had FULL control of everything. What did they fix? Nothing... in fact it's far worse now. GW didn't put us here today, Obama did.

I agree... BOTH PARTIES HAVE SCREWED up this country. Unfortunately many of the reps are still old school. If it were not for the tea party, nothing would have changed, and Boehner would have folded weeks ago.
JJ

[Guest]

That I agree with.

[Guest]

and quietly..... as the Democrats fall back on the talking points that slam the Republicans for trying to fix the mess.......

The Gov of NY is doing the same to try to fix NY, and the silence is deafening!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/opinion/03thu2.html

Who's playing politics now?? Hmmmmm

[Guest]

Just look at the past election results, the people demand action., not compromise with the socialists.

the nonsense you post??

[Guest]

the nonsense you post??

I agree with Sparky. The tea party is controlling the debate in Congress for a reason.. . they were elected. That is not nonsense.
JJ

[Guest]

Do you actually believe the nonsense you post??

I know you wrote this for someone else, but my thought is that I love that you feel this way. If you're any where near representative of the current thinking of the liberals in the electorate, 2012 should be a cake walk for the Republicans, and it reenforces my hopes; so thank you for that.