What is Essential? Where does the money come from?

[Guest]

Sounds like shutdown.. NOW the big questions..
Who is essential? Who decides who is essential?
Where does the money come from to pay "essential" workers if Congress has not appropriated any money for them? That makes no sense..
We are not being told the truth..
How can a blue collar worker in DC be essential.. and get paid, but soldiers in Afghanistan being shot at not? Supposedly essential means to protect persons or property..
This shutdown is a scam. If the gov can pay people without Congress appropriating the money.. what do we need Congress for and what the heck happened to the Constitution that says Congress controls the purse strings..
JJ

[Guest]

Been rather wondering about that myself........

[Guest]

Jimmy,
Cool down and take a deep breath (not too deep if you are near an Iowa hog farm).

The government agencies have all their contingency plans going into place at this very moment. There are going to be some disruptions of services and pay. It was determined a long time ago which employees will contiue on their jobs as though nothing happened and who will stay home. All will be paid after the shutdown is through. It will be difficult for some families who go paycheck to paycheck but in the end - all will be paid for the entire time of the shutdown - even though they stayed home.

Blame Republicans, blame Democrats, blame teaparties, but the voting public is going to blame teaparties and Republicans and the Democrats will will in 2012 - just like the government shutdown put Bill Clinton's re-election a sure thing in 1996.

[Guest]

very handily avoided any action on a budget for two years. They stated that before the elections in 2010 would not be a good time to do so as there were so many embarassing issues they wanted to avoid. Many dems have been quoted they may have lost the elections in 2010 but what they gained was to now push the budget process aggressively and have the issues now come to light as well as the known in advance (as usual) government shutdown....then let the republicans take the heat and set the dems up for 2012.

Only one problem with their thinking (:1rotfl:)....they still think the majority of Americans remain stupid enough to believe or buy into the business as usual blame game....and keep on spending game now that they have no budget or responsibility.

Politicians....all of them...very self centered dummies!!!

btk

[Guest]

Jimmy,
Cool down and take a deep breath (not too deep if you are near an Iowa hog farm).

The government agencies have all their contingency plans going into place at this very moment. There are going to be some disruptions of services and pay. It was determined a long time ago which employees will contiue on their jobs as though nothing happened and who will stay home. All will be paid after the shutdown is through. It will be difficult for some families who go paycheck to paycheck but in the end - all will be paid for the entire time of the shutdown - even though they stayed home.

Blame Republicans, blame Democrats, blame teaparties, but the voting public is going to blame teaparties and Republicans and the Democrats will will in 2012 - just like the government shutdown put Bill Clinton's re-election a sure thing in 1996.

once again. Thanks.

[Guest]

Jimmy,
Cool down and take a deep breath (not too deep if you are near an Iowa hog farm).

The government agencies have all their contingency plans going into place at this very moment. There are going to be some disruptions of services and pay. It was determined a long time ago which employees will contiue on their jobs as though nothing happened and who will stay home. All will be paid after the shutdown is through. It will be difficult for some families who go paycheck to paycheck but in the end - all will be paid for the entire time of the shutdown - even though they stayed home.

Blame Republicans, blame Democrats, blame teaparties, but the voting public is going to blame teaparties and Republicans and the Democrats will will in 2012 - just like the government shutdown put Bill Clinton's re-election a sure thing in 1996.

That is my point.. Who says they will get paid later? The CONSTITUTION is the ultimate law and it says Congress decides what the gov spends..
they will not get paid until Congress passes a budget, and if the congress does not appropriate money to pay them, there is no money to pay them. A contingency plan by a Gov agency does not guarantee them payment.

I agree those that worked should be paid. I do not think anyone furloughed should be paid. I, as a supervisor, was furloughed many times last year to save money, more than my staff, and I did not get paid.
JJ
P.S. PLEASE do not tell me to cool down. It sounds like a back handed way of insinuating something is wrong with me.. like I am a out of control, or too emotional, or childish. .. It sounds like a putdown. I have a right to be concerned about the state of our country. What exactly did I say that indicates I need to cool down?

P.P.S. This is not 1996. In the last election the president's party (in his own words) took a shellacking because they were they perceived as the party of big spending and the Republicans promised (again) to reduce spending. This budget fight is over spending.
JJ

[Guest]

JimJoe - there was a law passed in 1870 (according to an article I read yesterday) that allows for the whole 'essential personnel' situation.

How do you know if you're essential? You look it up on a website. I work for the Air Force and I can see it right in my personnel profle online. Where does the money come from for those who ARE essential? It's already been collected. From what I heard, there's over $50B in various accounts. The soldiers overseas WILL get paid. The question becomes who else will and when.

So now we have the 'extension' that has SIXTY FIVE policy riders on it tacked on by the Republicans including trying to defund Planned Parenthood - I guess poor women can just go without cancer screening and forbidding D.C. from using LOCALLY GENERATED taxes to pay for abortion services for poor women. Yeah - de-funding people who CANNOT VOTE for anyone in Congress (it's been my position that the residents of D.C. should be allowed to vote in national elections as if they were in Maryland as opposed to full statehood but that's another debate)

So let's see.. The GOP, whom I used to vote for, has gone to the mat for banking executives and billionaires while trying to strip chump-change funding for fuel assistance to the elderly and women's health services for the poor.

Today, Ronald Reagan would be considered a left wing radical.

I'm disgusted by all this. The hypocritical governor in Ohio, the fascist governor in Florida (random drug testing for state workers????)

If I was slightly disenchanted with the GOP before, they turn my stomach today.

And it's not like the Democrats are paragons of virtue. I've long had many bones to pick with them. Wishy washy weasels, the lot of them, these days.

[Guest]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/opinion/08fri1.html?_r=2&src=mv&ref=homepage The Republicans are playing a dangerous game and if voters are as aware of things as some of you always say then they are going to be voted out in 2012 again. If you are opposed to abortion bring it up in a seperate amendment and see what happens,don't hold the country hostage. This is garbage.

[Guest]

Well folks we know one thing for sure the present Administration and Congress will be defined as "essential" I lean in favor of that old saw " too many cooks in the kitchen, spoil..." when it comes to Congress and so again I say that with the advances in technology we could about half Congress because all we have now going on is a Chinese Fire Drill. I also am not concerned about a shutdown even obama understands he can't leave the Country vulnerable, or does he?

[Guest]

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of all of this B.S. Our elected leaders are all acting like children that have just been told they can't have any candy while standing in line at the candy store. We are in the process of being a part of at least 3 wars to try to impress our morals and values on other nations. This is, by the latest garfunkle ,the only kind of morals and values that Congress knows. Is it any wonder why the rest of the world laughs at the U.S. I would welcome any kind of common sense in Congress. Oh, I forgot, common sense and Congress will never be a part of the legislative process. NEVER REELECT ANYONE, by the time they are elected they all are corrupt. You don't see their paychecks being held up over this budget B.S. Time to recall all of them.

[Guest]

I was watching NBC Nightly News tonight and it showed all the National Parks getting ready to close down for a government shutdown. This is taking place during many families and schools spring vacation time. All those people who were going to Washington DC to see the Smithsonian museums, National Zoo, and government sites like Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Jefferson Memorial will all be denied their visits due to the shutdown.

The people affected said they were going to remember that this was due to Republicans being stubborn on items like no federal funding for clinics that performed abortions. RIDICULOUS, I say. Those tea--- Republicans have sealed their own fate and the Democrats are going to win big time in 2012 with President Obama getting re-elected.

The majority of the country is far more liberal than most of the posters on this fourm.

By the way, have you noticed that Caribou Barbie has not weighed in hardly at all on this issue?

[Guest]

I was watching NBC Nightly News tonight and it showed all the National Parks getting ready to close down for a government shutdown. This is taking place during many families and schools spring vacation time. All those people who were going to Washington DC to see the Smithsonian museums, National Zoo, and government sites like Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Jefferson Memorial will all be denied their visits due to the shutdown.

The people affected said they were going to remember that this was due to Republicans being stubborn on items like no federal funding for clinics that performed abortions. RIDICULOUS, I say. Those tea--- Republicans have sealed their own fate and the Democrats are going to win big time in 2012 with President Obama getting re-elected.

The majority of the country is far more liberal than most of the posters on this fourm.

By the way, have you noticed that Caribou Barbie has not weighed in hardly at all on this issue?

Independents are not impressed with your attitude and name calling.. Please keep it up.
JJ

[Guest]

JimJoe - there was a law passed in 1870 (according to an article I read yesterday) that allows for the whole 'essential personnel' situation.

How do you know if you're essential? You look it up on a website. I work for the Air Force and I can see it right in my personnel profle online. Where does the money come from for those who ARE essential? It's already been collected. From what I heard, there's over $50B in various accounts. The soldiers overseas WILL get paid. The question becomes who else will and when.

So now we have the 'extension' that has SIXTY FIVE policy riders on it tacked on by the Republicans including trying to defund Planned Parenthood - I guess poor women can just go without cancer screening and forbidding D.C. from using LOCALLY GENERATED taxes to pay for abortion services for poor women. Yeah - de-funding people who CANNOT VOTE for anyone in Congress (it's been my position that the residents of D.C. should be allowed to vote in national elections as if they were in Maryland as opposed to full statehood but that's another debate)

So let's see.. The GOP, whom I used to vote for, has gone to the mat for banking executives and billionaires while trying to strip chump-change funding for fuel assistance to the elderly and women's health services for the poor.

Today, Ronald Reagan would be considered a left wing radical.

I'm disgusted by all this. The hypocritical governor in Ohio, the fascist governor in Florida (random drug testing for state workers????)

If I was slightly disenchanted with the GOP before, they turn my stomach today.

And it's not like the Democrats are paragons of virtue. I've long had many bones to pick with them. Wishy washy weasels, the lot of them, these days.

Do you believe there is a debt crisis? Do you see that we are on the very edge or insolvency? Did you notice the dollar index dropped to under $75 today? Do you know that after June 30th there will be no QE money left to buy our debt from ourselves and that no one may buy it? We do not have the European union to bail us out like Iceland, Greece, and Portugal do. What are you going to live on when your dollars and savings are worth nothing? Please do not let them destroy our money.
JJ

[Guest]

I was watching NBC Nightly News tonight and it showed all the National Parks getting ready to close down for a government shutdown. This is taking place during many families and schools spring vacation time. All those people who were going to Washington DC to see the Smithsonian museums, National Zoo, and government sites like Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial, Jefferson Memorial will all be denied their visits due to the shutdown.

The people affected said they were going to remember that this was due to Republicans being stubborn on items like no federal funding for clinics that performed abortions. RIDICULOUS, I say. Those tea--- Republicans have sealed their own fate and the Democrats are going to win big time in 2012 with President Obama getting re-elected.

The majority of the country is far more liberal than most of the posters on this fourm.

By the way, have you noticed that Caribou Barbie has not weighed in hardly at all on this issue?

You give me so much more hope that I ask for. If you and your fellow liberals are still stuck in 1995 and playing the new game with the old rules, you are going to be in for a big surprise.

By the way 1995 liberals. If you want to hear "Caribou Barbie's" take on the issues you need to get 21st Century and join her Facebook page and maybe her twitter account or her PAC site, or you can watch her on Fox if your technology is as old as your political strategy.

[Guest]

Independents are not impressed with your attitude and name calling.. Please keep it up.
JJ


You do really have to wonder about a person who has a need to demean others, whether public officials or other posters.

[Guest]

Richie,

Glad that I am able to put a smile on your face.

Join Caribou Barbie on Facebook or Twitter? Richie, do you honestly believe that (a) she even reads what her fans tweet or facebook her? or (b) she even has the tehnical ability to open tweets or a Facebook page?

I am quite sure that Palin does not read or respond to her messages. It is all done by aides who are probably well-paid 20-somethings with a script.

I am glad that the Federal shutdown is averted for the time being. It is time to get to real issues (yes, the budget is a real issue) and stop doing things strictly on a party line.

[Guest]

JimJoe: Do I believe there's a debt crisis? You're damn right I do. Do I know about the dollar index? Let me put it this way - I keep DAILY tabs on the value of the dollar against the Canadian dollar, the British Pound Sterling and the Euro. I can tell you that the Euro was at $1.63 when my daughter was in Europe, $1.33 when I was there last year and was at $1.25 earlier this year but had hovered recently at $1.40 then popped to $1.44 because the Europeans decided to hike their interest rates a quarter of a percent.

But when you get what you want, as far as dollars, in the stopgap measure and THEN hold everything up over social policy? Well the "it's all about the deficit" rhetoric is proven to be just that. Rhetoric.

When Bill Maher's famous (to some) picture of the federal budget dinner plate still has the fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy and mac & cheese (Medicare, Social Security & Defense) UNTOUCHED. Then it's about rhetoric.

We could take a good home-run swing at the deficit by doing the following:

- Get out of Aghanistan (since Karzai took it upon himself to publicize Terry Jones' idiocy), Iraq (8 years is enough), Germany (I think Hitler's dead and the Soviet Union doesn't exist) and Japan (I hear we won that war). Perhaps leave our troops in Korea until something sane happens to the DPRK (North Korea). This'll cut some of the fried chicken off the plate. Maybe, while we're at it, cancel the backup F-35 engine that the Air Force says it doesn't want bu legislooters keep funding - there's a couple BILLION right there.

- Reinstate the tax brackets the way they were under Clinton. You know, when times were good.

- Find out why the same ER visit that cost my insurance company over $2500 iin the US cost $580 CDN (under $500 US at the time) in Montreal. It's not like they have a 3rd-world medical system over there. Oh - and while we're at it, how come THEIR prescription drugs are so much cheaper? (Hint: I know some of those answers). This might reduce the mashed potatoes.

- Eliminate the cap on FICA and re-examine the COLA formulas along with disability payments for Social Security. The mac & cheese gets attention.

Arguing over NPR and Planned Parenthood is RIDICULOUS in light of all the bigger elephants being ignored.

Maybe we should also be billing the host countries for the protection we provide them if we still have troops in that country. ...just a thought.

[Guest]

DJPlong,

You have hit the answers directly on the head. I like all of them.

[Guest]

JimJoe: Do I believe there's a debt crisis? You're damn right I do. Do I know about the dollar index? Let me put it this way - I keep DAILY tabs on the value of the dollar against the Canadian dollar, the British Pound Sterling and the Euro. I can tell you that the Euro was at $1.63 when my daughter was in Europe, $1.33 when I was there last year and was at $1.25 earlier this year but had hovered recently at $1.40 then popped to $1.44 because the Europeans decided to hike their interest rates a quarter of a percent.

But when you get what you want, as far as dollars, in the stopgap measure and THEN hold everything up over social policy? Well the "it's all about the deficit" rhetoric is proven to be just that. Rhetoric.

When Bill Maher's famous (to some) picture of the federal budget dinner plate still has the fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy and mac & cheese (Medicare, Social Security & Defense) UNTOUCHED. Then it's about rhetoric.

We could take a good home-run swing at the deficit by doing the following:

- Get out of Aghanistan (since Karzai took it upon himself to publicize Terry Jones' idiocy), Iraq (8 years is enough), Germany (I think Hitler's dead and the Soviet Union doesn't exist) and Japan (I hear we won that war). Perhaps leave our troops in Korea until something sane happens to the DPRK (North Korea). This'll cut some of the fried chicken off the plate. Maybe, while we're at it, cancel the backup F-35 engine that the Air Force says it doesn't want bu legislooters keep funding - there's a couple BILLION right there.

- Reinstate the tax brackets the way they were under Clinton. You know, when times were good.

- Find out why the same ER visit that cost my insurance company over $2500 iin the US cost $580 CDN (under $500 US at the time) in Montreal. It's not like they have a 3rd-world medical system over there. Oh - and while we're at it, how come THEIR prescription drugs are so much cheaper? (Hint: I know some of those answers). This might reduce the mashed potatoes.

- Eliminate the cap on FICA and re-examine the COLA formulas along with disability payments for Social Security. The mac & cheese gets attention.

Arguing over NPR and Planned Parenthood is RIDICULOUS in light of all the bigger elephants being ignored.

Maybe we should also be billing the host countries for the protection we provide them if we still have troops in that country. ...just a thought.

If you believe there is a serious debt crisis then 39 billion that is full of smoke and mirrors is NOT a good start. Repubs promised $100 billion in their Pledge to America.
I think they should have separate funding bills for the military, federal courts, military, prisons, executive branch, legislative branch, entitlements, and social programs, and they rise and fall on their own merit. What is wrong with that?
I am a tea party supporter. Most of us do not care about social issues "primarily".. it was social conservatives doing that. Those are two different priorities. Social spending has to be cut too.. I would be happy with 10% across the board every year until the budget is balanced, and then 10% of revenue goes to debt payment until paid. Let the social programs compete for funding and the ones that have the most support should win.
JJ

[Guest]

are not.

btk

[Guest]

JimJoe: The $39B *is* something. It *is* a start. But don't let anyone kid themselves into thinking the problem is ANYwhere near 'licked'. Dismissing the $39B reminds me of the dynamic I had with my adoptive mother back in the 1980s. I owed her a lot of money. I wasn't making much money. When I proposed at least giving her $50 (a lot, to me, at the time) she insulted me saying it was a 'drop in the bucket' and that I shouldn't bother until I got serious. Of course, she kept charging me interest and the bill just kept going up. Long story short is that the debt wasn't settled until I settled her estate.

Bill: Ok, I *like* that line :)

[Guest]

JimJoe: The $39B *is* something. It *is* a start. But don't let anyone kid themselves into thinking the problem is ANYwhere near 'licked'. Dismissing the $39B reminds me of the dynamic I had with my adoptive mother back in the 1980s. I owed her a lot of money. I wasn't making much money. When I proposed at least giving her $50 (a lot, to me, at the time) she insulted me saying it was a 'drop in the bucket' and that I shouldn't bother until I got serious. Of course, she kept charging me interest and the bill just kept going up. Long story short is that the debt wasn't settled until I settled her estate.

Bill: Ok, I *like* that line :)

..no one gets to see the details until they work them out..HUH??? what the heck does that mean? Sounds like Pelosi saying we have to pass the obamacare to find out what is in it...
but we do know that Boehner and his rino buddies are now counting the 39b from the Obama budget that was never even submitted, the billions they had already gotten from the two previous continuing resolutions, from non reoccurring accounts that they already knew would not be spent, and using "smoke and mirrors" to quote Boehner.
But worst of all these rinos got elected by PROMISING us in the Pledge to America they would cut 100b.. right? You still trust them?
Boehner let the dems control the speech.
It is NOT shutting the gov down.. it is FURLOUGHS for NON essential employees. I took twice as many furlough days as my staff last year to help save the state budget... I had to take twice as many days as my staff, and my caseload was bigger and more difficult cases, because bone head bureaucrats find it easier to claim supervisors are overpaid and do nothing but sit around and drink coffee.
They never even bothered to look at our caseloads.. you are called supervisor.. you get twice as much loss.
There is NO WAY Boehner and the rinos will be able to do anything with the debt ceiling limit. They will get a few token "cuts" like they did this time in the 2012 budget. If your child asked for help with a debt they could not pay, you would "raise" their debt ceiling to help them pay their bills ONLY if they cut up their credit cards (NO more debt) AND insisted they set up a payment plan to pay their bills.. WHY CANT WE DO THAT WITH OUR GOVERNMENT?
The only solution is to replace ALL of the Rinos in the next election. I guarantee you the tea party will be primaring all of them. The tea party is not going to take this from the rinos. That is why I predicted on this forum that Boehner will be forced to resign and I stick with that prediction. He is going to completely blow the debt ceiling debate completely.. Obama and the dems are going to give NOTHING of substance and Boeher will be toast.
JJ