Roundabout safety

[sgvegas]

Most vehicle accidents in TV occur in the roundabout in front of the Savannah center. Vehicles traveling South in the right lane, cross the left lane to go on to the Savannah, or Camino Real causing collisions with vehicles travelling South in the left lane. The only way to avoid this is to do what was done in my previous city that had the same problem. Build a concrete barrier that would prevent vehicles from turning into the left lane. If someone gets stuck in the left lane because of the barrier, they just have to continue South on Buena Vista until they can make a u turn.
:BigApplause:

[l2ridehd]

Roundabout rules are so very simple. If folks follow them there should never be an accident. There are only 4 and they work.

1. The car in the circle ALWAYS has the right of way. No matter which lane they are in, you do not enter until they are by you.
2. If going 90 degrees enter from the right lane and exit from the right lane.
3. If going 180 degrees enter from either lane and exit from the lane you entered. Enter right, exit right, enter left, exit left.
4. If going 270 degrees always enter from the left lane and exit from the left lane.

If everyone follows those rules there would be no accidents. There are a couple places where they remove the inside lane and force you into the right lane, but if rule 1 is followed that is not an issue either.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

My primary premise: Never travel in a roundabout beside another vehicle. No crashes that way due to someone crossing another vehicle's path.

Bill

[rubicon]

I use my blinker when entering and exiting a round-about because there is a % of people who have never used one or will never learn how to use one

[Mikeod]

Roundabout rules are so very simple. If folks follow them there should never be an accident. There are only 4 and they work.

1. The car in the circle ALWAYS has the right of way. No matter which lane they are in, you do not enter until they are by you.
2. If going 90 degrees enter from the right lane and exit from the right lane.
3. If going 180 degrees enter from either lane and exit from the lane you entered. Enter right, exit right, enter left, exit left.
4. If going 270 degrees always enter from the left lane and exit from the left lane.

If everyone follows those rules there would be no accidents. There are a couple places where they remove the inside lane and force you into the right lane, but if rule 1 is followed that is not an issue either.

Exactly! You should consider the roundabout just like a normal intersection. If you were making a left turn, you wouldn't do it from the right lane (unless you were from some of the cities I have visited!!!). If you were making a right turn, you wouldn't do it from the left lane. If you're going straight through the intersection, you could do it from either lane. This works no matter which road you approach the roundabout on.

The only tricky part is when exiting the roundabout after going 270 degrees around and entering a gate. My habit is to enter the left lane from the roundabout inside lane and then merge to the right to use the resident lane. If someone block me from merging, I just use the visitor lane. No big deal.

But use your turn signals when exiting the roundabout just to eliminate confusion.
:thumbup:

[golfnut]

Why is the title of this thread Golf Cart Safety?...........gn

[Bogie Shooter]

Most vehicle accidents in TV occur in the roundabout in front of the Savannah center. Vehicles traveling South in the right lane, cross the left lane to go on to the Savannah, or Camino Real causing collisions with vehicles travelling South in the left lane. The only way to avoid this is to do what was done in my previous city that had the same problem. Build a concrete barrier that would prevent vehicles from turning into the left lane. If someone gets stuck in the left lane because of the barrier, they just have to continue South on Buena Vista until they can make a u turn.
:BigApplause:

Are there stats to back up this statement?

[Bryan]

Two points:

First, unless it is a 'street legal' golf cart, it has no business in a roundabout - stay off the roads and on the multinodal trails.

Second, the 'accidents' mentioned in the original post do not occur on roundabouts. They happen about 100 feet past the roundabout when a car in the right lane tries to make a left turn into the Savahhah Center.

[trichard]

I don't get it. The rules are so simple to understand. Yet, I see as a regular occurrence drivers entering the circle from the right lane cross into the left hand lane of the circle and then back to the right lane to exit the roundabout when they are going 180 degrees straight through.

[Mikitv]

So what do you do when you have a driver coming at you in the round about, meaning he is going the wrong way. Happened to us the other day at Calumet Round About. Luckily we were in right side of lane and he was coming at us in the left lane. He just kept going and luckily hit no one.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

So what do you do when you have a driver coming at you in the round about, meaning he is going the wrong way. Happened to us the other day at Calumet Round About. Luckily we were in right side of lane and he was coming at us in the left lane. He just kept going and luckily hit no one.

Get the license plate and have "The Three Ladies" track 'em down..........:shocked:

Bill :)

[TamLeigh]

Cars should also not change lanes in the roundabouts. And they should stay in one lane or the other. Also, too many people cross the line while driving in the roundabouts, nearly hitting cars next to them. This especially happens coming down Morse towards Sumter Landing when cars are in both lanes. And yes, you can go through either gate. One doesn't have to enter the resident gate....so there is no need to change from the left lane right before the gate. Here is a link I found on this site right after we moved here and it was quite helpful.

Much like the villages brochure on roundabouts:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/safety/roundabouts/

Video on driving roundabouts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MywmtskFiiI

[Pturner]

Get the license plate and have "The Three Ladies" track 'em down..........:shocked:

Bill :)

Tee hee.

Kudos to those who said to use your blinker! In all the times we've been to TV, I think I've personally witnessed only one person use a blinker to exit a roundabout. That person is ME.

What's up with so many people not using a turn signal to make a turn?? I don't get it.

[graciegirl]

Tee hee.

Kudos to those who said to use your blinker! In all the times we've been to TV, I think I've personally witnessed only one person use a blinker to exit a roundabout. That person is ME.

What's up with so many people not using a turn signal to make a turn?? I don't get it.

I do P.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Tee hee.

Kudos to those who said to use your blinker! In all the times we've been to TV, I think I've personally witnessed only one person use a blinker to exit a roundabout. That person is ME.

What's up with so many people not using a turn signal to make a turn?? I don't get it.

We do as well....always.

Bill :)

[kb8tpw]

This video should be widely used by TV safety and traffic education entities extensively, it is very good, compared to the brochure.

Last weekend when the Leesburg bike event was going on some ventured over to TV and while I try to be very kind and courteous to others on the roundabouts, I was forced to blow my horn when a bike came straight into the roundabout that I was already in at a high rate of speed. It's been my experience that watching the other guy (or gal) is the paramount consideration. I have traveled extensively in the UK and feel that a six week stint there would be good basic training for all new TV residents.

[ilovetv]

This video should be widely used by TV safety and traffic education entities extensively, it is very good, compared to the brochure.
....

While the video above is good, it does not address the horrible danger of TV roundabouts allowing right turns from BOTH the right and left lanes.......a dangerous setup not found in most other multiple lane roundabouts. Here, drivers in the left lane will cut across in front of a driver in the right lane, to turn right from the left lane. This is insanity. Most roundabouts allow right turns from the right lane only, so that drivers who have chosen the right lane to go 180 degrees (straight) and NOT turn at 90 will not be mowed down by somebody on their left side zooming to turn right, in FRONT of them.

[Mikeod]

Huh! TV does not allow right turns from the left lane in roundabouts. Drivers entering the roundabout in the left lane have to either go straight or 270 to make a left turn. What you may be seeing is a driver who entered in the left lane to go 3/4 of the way around and is exiting at the proper point from the left lane. It is important that other drivers entering the roundabout wait until both lanes are clear before entering, i.e., don't pull into the vacant outside lane when there is a car in the inside lane. You may block them from exiting normally. If you replay the video, you will see they do not enter the roundabout until both lanes are clear.

[swrinfla]

My Dad always reminded me: "Watch out for the other damned fool on the road!"

Very good advice when I was first driving (in Massachusetts, where "Rotaries" were fairly common), and when I moved to The Villages!

Always, always keep a sharp eye out!

SWR
:beer3:

[BigLew]

Huh! TV does not allow right turns from the left lane in roundabouts. Drivers entering the roundabout in the left lane have to either go straight or 270 to make a left turn. What you may be seeing is a driver who entered in the left lane to go 3/4 of the way around and is exiting at the proper point from the left lane. It is important that other drivers entering the roundabout wait until both lanes are clear before entering, i.e., don't pull into the vacant outside lane when there is a car in the inside lane. You may block them from exiting normally. If you replay the video, you will see they do not enter the roundabout until both lanes are clear.

the white lines in the roundabout do show what is allowed and what is not. You ARE allowed to enter in the left lane and go straight, you will notice that the right lane WILL have a SOLID white line so that it MUST exit in the right lane and cannot continue around! like you've all said...watch out for yourselves because maybe 2 or 3 in 10 know what to do in the roundabout

[golfnut]

Most vehicle accidents in TV occur in the roundabout in front of the Savannah center. Vehicles traveling South in the right lane, cross the left lane to go on to the Savannah, or Camino Real causing collisions with vehicles travelling South in the left lane. The only way to avoid this is to do what was done in my previous city that had the same problem. Build a concrete barrier that would prevent vehicles from turning into the left lane. If someone gets stuck in the left lane because of the barrier, they just have to continue South on Buena Vista until they can make a u turn.
:BigApplause:

Concrete barriers in the roundabouts, now I've heard everything....gn

[ceejay]

Staggering and blinkers are the two most obvious answers!

[ilovetv]

Huh! TV does not allow right turns from the left lane in roundabouts. Drivers entering the roundabout in the left lane have to either go straight or 270 to make a left turn. What you may be seeing is a driver who entered in the left lane to go 3/4 of the way around and is exiting at the proper point from the left lane. It is important that other drivers entering the roundabout wait until both lanes are clear before entering, i.e., don't pull into the vacant outside lane when there is a car in the inside lane. You may block them from exiting normally. If you replay the video, you will see they do not enter the roundabout until both lanes are clear.

Yes, I see from this brochure linked below, that right turns are not allowed from the left lane when the person entered the roundabout at the same time I have, but they do it anyway.

It has happened to me twice, going southbound on Buena Vista, approaching the Belvedere turn to the right. Twice, I entered the circle in the right lane, intending to go straight (180 deg.) as this brochure linked shows is allowed. But as I came near the right turn at 90 deg., a driver who entered the circle in the left lane--at the same time I did--sped up to turn right from the left lane, in front of me as I intended to go straight.

This is the danger I was talking about above. It's not allowed, but some rabid drivers do it anyway. Newbies need to be aware of this hazard and "Watch out for the other guy".

Roundabout Brochure from DistrictGov.org:
http://www.districtgov.org/images/WhatsNew/RoundaboutBrochure%20-%20FINAL070908.pdf

SEE "Going Straight Ahead" in the center bottom half of this brochure page.
"1. APPROACHING: You can be in either lane, unless otherwise marked on roadway or posted.
2. CIRCULATING: Stay to the inside of the circulatory roadway if you entered from the left-hand approach lane, or stay to the outside if you entered from the right-hand approach lane. Do not change lanes.
3. When you have passed the last exit before the one you want, use your right-turn signal and continue to use it through your exit.

[swimdawg]

Yes, I see from this brochure linked below, that right turns are not allowed from the left lane when the person entered the roundabout at the same time I have, but they do it anyway.

It has happened to me twice, going southbound on Buena Vista, approaching the Belvedere turn to the right. Twice, I entered the circle in the right lane, intending to go straight (180 deg.) as this brochure linked shows is allowed. But as I came near the right turn at 90 deg., a driver who entered the circle in the left lane--at the same time I did--sped up to turn right from the left lane, in front of me as I intended to go straight.

This is the danger I was talking about above. It's not allowed, but some rabid drivers do it anyway. Newbies need to be aware of this hazard and "Watch out for the other guy".

Roundabout Brochure from DistrictGov.org:
http://www.districtgov.org/images/WhatsNew/RoundaboutBrochure%20-%20FINAL070908.pdf

SEE "Going Straight Ahead" in the center bottom half of this brochure page.
"1. APPROACHING: You can be in either lane, unless otherwise marked on roadway or posted.
2. CIRCULATING: Stay to the inside of the circulatory roadway if you entered from the left-hand approach lane, or stay to the outside if you entered from the right-hand approach lane. Do not change lanes.
3. When you have passed the last exit before the one you want, use your right-turn signal and continue to use it through your exit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yikes! I think I'll leave my car in WNY and get a tricycle for transportation in TV. You have me scared to death to drive in those round-abouts.....especially if I have an attack of DBD (Dumb Blond Disease).:icon_wink:

[Barefoot]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yikes! I think I'll leave my car in WNY and get a tricycle for transportation in TV. You have me scared to death to drive in those round-abouts.....especially if I have an attack of DBD (Dumb Blond Disease).:icon_wink:

I felt the same way about roundabouts when I started living in TV. I was terrified and didn't go near one for at least three months. I know it isn't the correct way, but I always wait until there is no-one coming and then stay in the outside lane. And I never stop and back up! :D

[swimdawg]

I felt the same way about roundabouts when I started living in TV. I was terrified and didn't go near one for at least three months. I know it isn't the correct way, but I always wait until there is no-one coming and then stay in the outside lane. And I never stop and back up! :D
When you see that tall blond WALKING a lot, you'll know who it is!:D

[Taj44]

Exactly! You should consider the roundabout just like a normal intersection. If you were making a left turn, you wouldn't do it from the right lane (unless you were from some of the cities I have visited!!!). If you were making a right turn, you wouldn't do it from the left lane. If you're going straight through the intersection, you could do it from either lane. This works no matter which road you approach the roundabout on.

The only tricky part is when exiting the roundabout after going 270 degrees around and entering a gate. My habit is to enter the left lane from the roundabout inside lane and then merge to the right to use the resident lane. If someone block me from merging, I just use the visitor lane. No big deal.

But use your turn signals when exiting the roundabout just to eliminate confusion.
:thumbup:

Perfectly stated. I wish everyone could understand those basic concepts.

[Russ_Boston]

Staggering and blinkers are the two most obvious answers!

Staggering your entrance to make sure you are not side by side is a wise choice.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Staggering and blinkers are the two most obvious answers!

Yes, "staggering while wearing blinkers" (also referred to by some as blinders) is how some people operate a motor vehicle...............:shocked:

Bill :1rotfl:

[swimdawg]

Yes, "staggering while wearing blinkers" (also referred to by some as blinders) is how some people operate a motor vehicle...............:shocked:

Bill :1rotfl:

---------
That tricycle is sounding better and better!:laugh:

[l2ridehd]

I am not sure what you mean by staggering. You never do anything but that. Remember rule 1. The person in the roundabout always has the right of way. So if a car is already there, regardless or which lane, you should wait until they pass to enter.

The problem being discussed is two cars approach the roundabout side by side. No one is in the roundabout so both enter. The car in the left lane takes the 90 degree exit. They broke the law. If only going 90 degrees, ALWAYS enter from the right lane.

This is really simple. Think of a roundabout as two four lane roads arriving at a four way stop sign. If you wanted to go right, you would always be in the right lane. If you wanted to go left you would always be in the left lane. And if you wanted to go straight through, either lane would work. And you would never enter the intersection when another car was already there. Treat a roundabout exactly the same way and you should never have a problem.

[graciegirl]

I am not sure what you mean by staggering. You never do anything but that. Remember rule 1. The person in the roundabout always has the right of way. So if a car is already there, regardless or which lane, you should wait until they pass to enter.

The problem being discussed is two cars approach the roundabout side by side. No one is in the roundabout so both enter. The car in the left lane takes the 90 degree exit. They broke the law. If only going 90 degrees, ALWAYS enter from the right lane.

This is really simple. Think of a roundabout as two four lane roads arriving at a four way stop sign. If you wanted to go right, you would always be in the right lane. If you wanted to go left you would always be in the left lane. And if you wanted to go straight through, either lane would work. And you would never enter the intersection when another car was already there. Treat a roundabout exactly the same way and you should never have a problem.


I always admire your logical mind.:ho:

[Russ_Boston]

I am not sure what you mean by staggering.

I took it to mean when two cars can legally enter at the same time perhaps you hold back a little an let the other guy get a car length on you so you can see their intentions (just in case they aren't so logical!).

[Pturner]

Is it just my imagination or have we usually put this annual topic to bed by mid April?

:gc:

[skyguy79]

I took it to mean when two cars can legally enter at the same time perhaps you hold back a little an let the other guy get a car length on you so you can see their intentions (just in case they aren't so logical!).I hate to say this, but with the number of cars we've experienced, while we entered into the round-about on the right, that were passing us on our left and in a big a** hurry, I'd have to say that unfortunately... "IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!" http://www.gloryofwar.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/no%20smiley.gif

[EdV]

You can talk all day about how everyone should know the roundabout rules and how simple they are but it’s a waste of time. The fact is that TV is one of the worst places to have installed over 30 of these multi-lane roundabouts.

Think about it. Each year, thousands of people from all over the globe migrate here during the winter. Many are first timers and if they aren’t renting in TV, they’re renting in nearby communities and come to TV for a day or two to have a look see. Many of these drivers are from places that either don’t have these roundabouts or have never encountered them. So when the approach a roundabout for the first time, they tend to gravitate to the right lane while they size up the situation. Then they enter the roundabout when the rightmost lane is clear because that’s what they (and most drivers) do when they merge onto a multilane highway that has a yield sign. And that of course sets up the accident when the drive in the left lane attempts to take the next exit.

If you really want a solution that works, make the roundabouts single lane. Then the only rule is to yield the vehicles already in the roundabout.

The next best solution is what Sgvegas suggested. Restrict the right lane to right turn only with the use of barriers. Of course that requires a decision for correct lane selection and there will be the occasional nimrod that attempts to correct their mistake by stopping and backing up.

[memason]

Well, I personally believe the addition of the roundabouts in TV are a stroke of genius...multi-lane or single...doesn't matter. They keep traffic moving... could you imagine driving up Buena Vista or Morse if the roundabouts were converted to 4-way stops or traffic signals....YIKES! For the thousands of cars that navigate through them daily, there are very few [if any] accidents.


Just saying....

[EdV]

If you look back and check the number of threads and posts on this subject, it should be pretty obvious that there is a problem here. Not sure where or when you travel in TV, but I’ve seen lots of near misses here in roundabouts.

My issue is not with roundabouts per se, but with the multilane ones. And I’m not advocating replacing them with lights or 4 way stops. I’m simply suggesting that they could be made safer given the highly transient nature of the residents and renters in TV, even if it results in a slight reduction in traffic flow.

[Russ_Boston]

If you look back and check the number of threads and posts on this subject, it should be pretty obvious that there is a problem here. Not sure where or when you travel in TV, but I’ve seen lots of near misses here in roundabouts.

My issue is not with roundabouts per se, but with the multilane ones. And I’m not advocating replacing them with lights or 4 way stops. I’m simply suggesting that they could be made safer given the highly transient nature of the residents and renters in TV, even if it results in a slight reduction in traffic flow.

Yes but are there a lot of accidents or just antidotes from TOTV? I like the roundabouts but I know enough to assume that others don't know how to drive in them so I'm very cautious.

[inholmdel]

TIP:
All the above OK but if you find yourself in the left lane in the roundabout and want to go right look at the cars tires you are trying to pass before turning right. If the tires are not being turned to right, wait for the car on the right to pass.
inholmdel

[Bogie Shooter]

If you look back and check the number of threads and posts on this subject, it should be pretty obvious that there is a problem here. Not sure where or when you travel in TV, but I’ve seen lots of near misses here in roundabouts.

My issue is not with roundabouts per se, but with the multilane ones. And I’m not advocating replacing them with lights or 4 way stops. I’m simply suggesting that they could be made safer given the highly transient nature of the residents and renters in TV, even if it results in a slight reduction in traffic flow.

Ed, there are near misses everywhere, stop signs, red light runners, etc. The roundabouts are no different....its all up to the one behind the wheel.
I say keep'um, better than any altenative.

[memason]

By the way... I drive an Audi . . . :clap2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyaM_2w3jMI&feature=related

[The Great Fumar]

by the way... I drive an audi . . . :clap2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyam_2w3jmi&feature=related

looks a little like chicopee falls......

[downeaster]

Roundabout safety is an oxymoron.

[billethkid]

It is definetly the nut at the end of the steering wheel.

Makes one wonder where or why retired people have to be to go as fast as they do here in TV (or any where else).

btk

[skyguy79]

It is definetly the nut at the end of the steering wheel.

Makes one wonder where or why retired people have to be to go as fast as they do here in TV (or any where else).

btkI hear what you're saying, but don't forget that not everyone who drives in and around TV are retired or even residents of TV. Your "nut at the end of the steering wheel" can come in a choice of domestic, imported and even commercial types!

[Gil Chapin]

I've only lived here a year and a half so far, but it seems to me that the problem with the roundabouts is that if you're in the inside lane, you almost always have to cross the outside lane to get to an exit. I understand the business about choosing lanes according to where you're going to exit, but if you're going "straight through" in the outside lane and the guy who is in the inside lane is going straight through - but he got into the roundabout one entrance before you did, so he's getting off one exit before you - then he's going to cross in front of you - or into you - and you'll both think you were doing the right thing. If you're in a roundabout, you have the right of way over entering traffic. If you're in a particular lane (in a roundabout or otherwise), you have the right of way over another vehicle entering that lane (and by the way, entering a roundabout's left lane from the entrance's left lane means you cross the outside lane of the roundabout...). Still further, if a vehicle is in a lane in a roundabout, it can stay there all day long and go around and around and retain the right of way unless and until it changes lanes. So from a practical perspective, it seems to me that the vehicle in the outside lane usually has the right of way. People in the inside lane must assume that the vehicle in the outside lane is NOT getting off at the same exit as they are and yield to that vehicle.

I do use the inside lane for going to the third exit - and sometimes even to the second exit - but I'm acutely aware of the traffic in the outside lane that may be going to a different exit beyond mine.

When I'm in the outside lane in a roundabout, I'm always looking over my left shoulder for that person who thinks he has the right of way to cross in front of me just because he thinks he's on the "main" road.

The other thing I've seen mentioned here is signalling one's intentions. I thought cars sold in Florida didn't have turn signals because no one would use them anyway. Where I came from, you are obliged by law to signal your intentions when changing lanes or making turns. That is, your intentions - it doesn't work if you only start to signal while you maneuver and it certainly doesn't work if you don't do it at all. It seems especially important to use them in roundabouts - but it's a requirement of the vehicle and traffic law no matter where you're driving - even if you have a turning lane and/or a green arrow - or if you're selecting the bypass lane for a roundabout.

And as long as I'm on a soapbox, another irritating thing I see frequently is people's apparent lack of understanding about "right turn on red" situations. Many people seem to overlook the stop portion of that maneuver. Full stop, that is, not just a hesitation. Just because they didn't see anyone coming doesn't absolve them of the requirement to come to a full stop (meaning no forward motion) before turning.

All right, the last thing is people who turn left from the inside lane into the outside lane of the intersecting street (and probably doing it without signalling too...). You're obliged to turn into the corresponding adjacent lane. If you're in the inside lane before the intersection, you should be in the inside lane after turning through the intersection. If you have to be in the outside lane after turning from the inside lane, then after you've made the turn at the intersection into the adjacent lane, signal for the lane change and yield to traffic in that lane before you change into it.

This stuff isn't rocket science... most of if is just understanding and obeying the existing traffic laws.

I guess I should change my login name to "Mr. Pompous-Know-It-All-Who-Does-He-Think-He-Is-Anyway", shouldn't I?

[Bogie Shooter]

I've only lived here a year and a half so far, but it seems to me that the problem with the roundabouts is that if you're in the inside lane, you almost always have to cross the outside lane to get to an exit. I understand the business about choosing lanes according to where you're going to exit, but if you're going "straight through" in the outside lane and the guy who is in the inside lane is going straight through - but he got into the roundabout one entrance before you did, so he's getting off one exit before you - then he's going to cross in front of you - or into you - and you'll both think you were doing the right thing. If you're in a roundabout, you have the right of way over entering traffic. If you're in a particular lane (in a roundabout or otherwise), you have the right of way over another vehicle entering that lane (and by the way, entering a roundabout's left lane from the entrance's left lane means you cross the outside lane of the roundabout...). Still further, if a vehicle is in a lane in a roundabout, it can stay there all day long and go around and around and retain the right of way unless and until it changes lanes. So from a practical perspective, it seems to me that the vehicle in the outside lane usually has the right of way. People in the inside lane must assume that the vehicle in the outside lane is NOT getting off at the same exit as they are and yield to that vehicle.

I do use the inside lane for going to the third exit - and sometimes even to the second exit - but I'm acutely aware of the traffic in the outside lane that may be going to a different exit beyond mine.

When I'm in the outside lane in a roundabout, I'm always looking over my left shoulder for that person who thinks he has the right of way to cross in front of me just because he thinks he's on the "main" road.

The other thing I've seen mentioned here is signalling one's intentions. I thought cars sold in Florida didn't have turn signals because no one would use them anyway. Where I came from, you are obliged by law to signal your intentions when changing lanes or making turns. That is, your intentions - it doesn't work if you only start to signal while you maneuver and it certainly doesn't work if you don't do it at all. It seems especially important to use them in roundabouts - but it's a requirement of the vehicle and traffic law no matter where you're driving - even if you have a turning lane and/or a green arrow - or if you're selecting the bypass lane for a roundabout.

And as long as I'm on a soapbox, another irritating thing I see frequently is people's apparent lack of understanding about "right turn on red" situations. Many people seem to overlook the stop portion of that maneuver. Full stop, that is, not just a hesitation. Just because they didn't see anyone coming doesn't absolve them of the requirement to come to a full stop (meaning no forward motion) before turning.

All right, the last thing is people who turn left from the inside lane into the outside lane of the intersecting street (and probably doing it without signalling too...). You're obliged to turn into the corresponding adjacent lane. If you're in the inside lane before the intersection, you should be in the inside lane after turning through the intersection. If you have to be in the outside lane after turning from the inside lane, then after you've made the turn at the intersection into the adjacent lane, signal for the lane change and yield to traffic in that lane before you change into it.

This stuff isn't rocket science... most of if is just understanding and obeying the existing traffic laws.

I guess I should change my login name to "Mr. Pompous-Know-It-All-Who-Does-He-Think-He-Is-Anyway", shouldn't I?

Yes. In answer to your question.
A new thread would be good, that way there could be and additional 50 plus opinions stated. LOL. However, the roundabouts are here to stay, the idiots will be driving in them,so go slow and enjoy the day.

[downeaster]

I've only lived here a year and a half so far, but it seems to me that the problem with the roundabouts is that if you're in the inside lane, you almost always have to cross the outside lane to get to an exit. I understand the business about choosing lanes according to where you're going to exit, but if you're going "straight through" in the outside lane and the guy who is in the inside lane is going straight through - but he got into the roundabout one entrance before you did, so he's getting off one exit before you - then he's going to cross in front of you - or into you - and you'll both think you were doing the right thing. If you're in a roundabout, you have the right of way over entering traffic. If you're in a particular lane (in a roundabout or otherwise), you have the right of way over another vehicle entering that lane (and by the way, entering a roundabout's left lane from the entrance's left lane means you cross the outside lane of the roundabout...). Still further, if a vehicle is in a lane in a roundabout, it can stay there all day long and go around and around and retain the right of way unless and until it changes lanes. So from a practical perspective, it seems to me that the vehicle in the outside lane usually has the right of way. People in the inside lane must assume that the vehicle in the outside lane is NOT getting off at the same exit as they are and yield to that vehicle.

I do use the inside lane for going to the third exit - and sometimes even to the second exit - but I'm acutely aware of the traffic in the outside lane that may be going to a different exit beyond mine.

When I'm in the outside lane in a roundabout, I'm always looking over my left shoulder for that person who thinks he has the right of way to cross in front of me just because he thinks he's on the "main" road.

The other thing I've seen mentioned here is signalling one's intentions. I thought cars sold in Florida didn't have turn signals because no one would use them anyway. Where I came from, you are obliged by law to signal your intentions when changing lanes or making turns. That is, your intentions - it doesn't work if you only start to signal while you maneuver and it certainly doesn't work if you don't do it at all. It seems especially important to use them in roundabouts - but it's a requirement of the vehicle and traffic law no matter where you're driving - even if you have a turning lane and/or a green arrow - or if you're selecting the bypass lane for a roundabout.

And as long as I'm on a soapbox, another irritating thing I see frequently is people's apparent lack of understanding about "right turn on red" situations. Many people seem to overlook the stop portion of that maneuver. Full stop, that is, not just a hesitation. Just because they didn't see anyone coming doesn't absolve them of the requirement to come to a full stop (meaning no forward motion) before turning.

All right, the last thing is people who turn left from the inside lane into the outside lane of the intersecting street (and probably doing it without signalling too...). You're obliged to turn into the corresponding adjacent lane. If you're in the inside lane before the intersection, you should be in the inside lane after turning through the intersection. If you have to be in the outside lane after turning from the inside lane, then after you've made the turn at the intersection into the adjacent lane, signal for the lane change and yield to traffic in that lane before you change into it.

This stuff isn't rocket science... most of if is just understanding and obeying the existing traffic laws.

I guess I should change my login name to "Mr. Pompous-Know-It-All-Who-Does-He-Think-He-Is-Anyway", shouldn't I?

Gil, please clarify inside/outside. Is "inside" left lane and "outside" right lane?

[NJblue]

I've only lived here a year and a half so far, but it seems to me that the problem with the roundabouts is that if you're in the inside lane, you almost always have to cross the outside lane to get to an exit. I understand the business about choosing lanes according to where you're going to exit, but if you're going "straight through" in the outside lane and the guy who is in the inside lane is going straight through - but he got into the roundabout one entrance before you did, so he's getting off one exit before you - then he's going to cross in front of you - or into you - and you'll both think you were doing the right thing. If you're in a roundabout, you have the right of way over entering traffic. If you're in a particular lane (in a roundabout or otherwise), you have the right of way over another vehicle entering that lane (and by the way, entering a roundabout's left lane from the entrance's left lane means you cross the outside lane of the roundabout...). Still further, if a vehicle is in a lane in a roundabout, it can stay there all day long and go around and around and retain the right of way unless and until it changes lanes. So from a practical perspective, it seems to me that the vehicle in the outside lane usually has the right of way. People in the inside lane must assume that the vehicle in the outside lane is NOT getting off at the same exit as they are and yield to that vehicle.


This is not correct. A person entering the roundabout in the outer lane must either take the first (a "right" turn) or second exit (go straight on the original road). To proceed beyond the second exit puts him in violation of the roundabout rules. People who do this have been the cause of every one of my near misses in roundabouts.

[Bogie Shooter]

Looks pretty simple to me.
http://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path='/PdfUpload/RoundaboutBrochure[/url] - FINAL070908.pdf'&ql=standard

[downeaster]

This thread is loaded with misinformation. A lot of people seem to have their own version of the rules. Using terms like "inside" and "outside" in reference to lanes is also confusing.

To clear up any confusion look back to Bogie Shooter's post (#51) and go to the site he references. Or stop by the Sheriff's location on CR466 and pick up a copy of the brochure.

In fact, l2ridehd's post (#2) summarizes the rules very clearly.

[Bogie Shooter]

This thread is loaded with misinformation. A lot of people seem to have their own version of the rules. Using terms like "inside" and "outside" in reference to lanes is also confusing.

To clear up any confusion look back to Bogie Shooter's post (#51) and go to the site he references. Or stop by the Sheriff's location on CR466 and pick up a copy of the brochure.

In fact, l2ridehd's post (#2) summarizes the rules very clearly.

You are right. This thread and the other 4-5 threads on this subject are filled with "i think", "IMHO" and only a few address the published rules in the handbook. In fact if everyone followed the rules............

[NJblue]

I don't think that using "inside" or "outside" is ambiguous. However, there seems to be a continuing notion that people in the right/outside lanes have the right to continue going around the circle to exit at any point that they wish. I just narrowly avoided such a person 20 minutes ago. If this notion could be quashed, navigating the circles would be a piece of cake.

[Bogie Shooter]

I don't think that using "inside" or "outside" is ambiguous. However, there seems to be a continuing notion that people in the right/outside lanes have the right to continue going around the circle to exit at any point that they wish. I just narrowly avoided such a person 20 minutes ago. If this notion could be quashed, navigating the circles would be a piece of cake.

How did he get so close to you or how did you get so close to him?

[NJblue]

The same way that most of these close calls occur: We were both going south on BV. He entered the circle a little ahead of me in the right lane. I entered behind him in the left lane and intended to go straight. Rather than turn right or go straight, he continued around the circle thus cutting in front of my path. Fortunately, I've seen enough of this to be ready to hit the brakes as he cut in front of me.

[LittleDog]

I don't think that using "inside" or "outside" is ambiguous. However, there seems to be a continuing notion that people in the right/outside lanes have the right to continue going around the circle to exit at any point that they wish. I just narrowly avoided such a person 20 minutes ago. If this notion could be quashed, navigating the circles would be a piece of cake.
I don't see what the problem was unless you were on the inside lane and attempted to exit from the inside lane. I usually stay in the outside lane and are especially careful of those who want exit from the inside lane where you can get cut off.

John

[NJblue]

I don't see what the problem was unless you were on the inside lane and attempted to exit from the inside lane. I usually stay in the outside lane and are especially careful of those who want exit from the inside lane where you can get cut off.

John

If you look at the proscribed traffic flow, when you enter the circle from the left lane, you are supposed to go into the inside lane of the circle. Once there, you are supposed to stay on the inside until you exit - thus causing you to cross the "outer" lane. This is not a problem as long as those in the right lane do as they are supposed to do - either turn right at the first exit or go straight by taking the second exit. The problem occurs when the person in the right lane wants to continue around the circle thus interfering with ability of the those in the inner lane to exit.

[downeaster]

I don't think that using "inside" or "outside" is ambiguous. However, there seems to be a continuing notion that people in the right/outside lanes have the right to continue going around the circle to exit at any point that they wish. I just narrowly avoided such a person 20 minutes ago. If this notion could be quashed, navigating the circles would be a piece of cake.

Here is where it can be confusing. Driving on BV the right lane is the "inside" lane and left lane is the "outside" lane. As soon as you enter a roundabout the right lane is often considered the "outside" lane and left lane the "inside" lane.
My point is, some of us don't know in from out but most of us know right from left.

[NJblue]

OK, now I think I see the confusion. My point of reference for the inside/outside was and is the circle in which case there is no ambiguity about the inside versus outside of a circle.

[graciegirl]

Roundabout rules are so very simple. If folks follow them there should never be an accident. There are only 4 and they work.

1. The car in the circle ALWAYS has the right of way. No matter which lane they are in, you do not enter until they are by you.
2. If going 90 degrees enter from the right lane and exit from the right lane.
3. If going 180 degrees enter from either lane and exit from the lane you entered. Enter right, exit right, enter left, exit left.
4. If going 270 degrees always enter from the left lane and exit from the left lane.

If everyone follows those rules there would be no accidents. There are a couple places where they remove the inside lane and force you into the right lane, but if rule 1 is followed that is not an issue either.

bump

[Bogie Shooter]

I don't see what the problem was unless you were on the inside lane and attempted to exit from the inside lane. I usually stay in the outside lane and are especially careful of those who want exit from the inside lane where you can get cut off.

John

If you stay in the outside lane and exit at the third opportunity....you are cutting off those who exiting at the second exit. This assumes you both enter the roundabout at the same point. If you enter in the outside lane and stay there to the third exit.....you are an accident waiting to happen.

[EdV]

Face it, two lane roundabouts are a stupid idea to begin with. And with over twenty of them in a relatively small geographic area populated by tens of thousands of senior drivers with diminished driving skills and reaction times, it borders on ridiculous.

If you really want to fix the problem you should ban together to approach your county reps to get these “killer” roundabouts rebuilt. Barriers could be placed so that the right lane can only be used for a right turn and traffic could proceed in that lane without having to even stop. The left lane would be used for all other exits and would be a single lane only.

The mouths of the exits would need to be widened some to allow tractor trailers to negotiate the roundabouts, but there is already enough landscaping in these roundabouts to accommodate this as far as I can see.

I don’t believe that this change would result in more congestion at the roundabouts. After all, the way it is now, you must wait funtil both lanes are free of any traffic before you can enter the roundabout, even if you are just making a right turn.

[GlendaW]

Our summer home is in the roundabout capitol of the world, Hamilton County, Indiana. It's just north of Indianapolis and is where all the suburbs are. I think the town of Carmel, which is beside our town, claims to be the actual capitol but there are roundabouts throughout the county there. I think they're great but they do throw people who have never seen one off the first couple times they drive through one. I also never enter a roundabout when there is a car coming my way even when it's on the inside lane. The right lane can be confusing on some because it sometimes makes you turn when you want to continue on the roundabout to the next street.

[NJblue]

Face it, two lane roundabouts are a stupid idea to begin with. And with over twenty of them in a relatively small geographic area populated by tens of thousands of senior drivers with diminished driving skills and reaction times, it borders on ridiculous.

If you really want to fix the problem you should ban together to approach your county reps to get these “killer” roundabouts rebuilt. Barriers could be placed so that the right lane can only be used for a right turn and traffic could proceed in that lane without having to even stop. The left lane would be used for all other exits and would be a single lane only.

The mouths of the exits would need to be widened some to allow tractor trailers to negotiate the roundabouts, but there is already enough landscaping in these roundabouts to accommodate this as far as I can see.

I don’t believe that this change would result in more congestion at the roundabouts. After all, the way it is now, you must wait funtil both lanes are free of any traffic before you can enter the roundabout, even if you are just making a right turn.

Or, a much cheaper solution would be to use the police patrols that are used to give tickets to golf carts that are going a couple of MPH too fast and have them instead give tickets to those who improperly use the roundabouts. I suspect that most of the problem is not diminished reflexes but the "I'll do it the way I want because it makes sense to me" mentality of the drivers. If they received a ticket or a warning about their error, they may start to obey the guidelines and the problem would be solved.

[LittleDog]

If you stay in the outside lane and exit at the third opportunity....you are cutting off those who exiting at the second exit. This assumes you both enter the roundabout at the same point. If you enter in the outside lane and stay there to the third exit.....you are an accident waiting to happen.

Don't quite understand your rationale. lf i am in the outside lane how am I cutting off anyone wanting to exit unless they try to exit from the inside lane. Either there in front of me in the outside lane or in back of me.

John

[Bogie Shooter]

I give up!:wave:

[NJblue]

Don't quite understand your rationale. lf i am in the outside lane how am I cutting off anyone wanting to exit unless they try to exit from the inside lane. Either there in front of me in the outside lane or in back of me.

John

The point is that they are supposed to exit from the inside lane if they entered the inside lane to begin with. Once you are in the roundabout you are not supposed to change lanes - hence the only way to exit if you are in the inner/left lane is to cross over the outer lane at the exit. This should never be a problem if those who are in the outer/right lane followed the rules. It is people who enter the outside lane and then fail to exit at one of the first two exits that are in violation and are the ones cutting off those who are following the rules.

[graciegirl]

I give up!:wave:

You are right Bogie.

If only people would get that diagram. YOU CAN EXIT from the inside lane. And you are supposed to if you are going three quarters around and you entered on the inside lane.

[EdV]

...... If they received a ticket or a warning about their error, they may start to obey the guidelines and the problem would be solved.

No it won’t, not any more than handing out speeding tickets stops people from speeding. Instead of trying to fix ignorance, indifference, or obstinance, fix the road and make it idiot proof.

[NJblue]

No it won’t, not any more than handing out speeding tickets stops people from speeding. Instead of trying to fix ignorance, indifference, or obstinance, fix the road and make it idiot proof.

I disagree. Speeding is not based on ignorance of the law. It is quite apparent that those who violate the roundabout rules are not aware that what they are doing is wrong. Once they get a ticket they will learn quite quickly.

[OCsun]

No it won’t, not any more than handing out speeding tickets stops people from speeding. Instead of trying to fix ignorance, indifference, or obstinance, fix the road and make it idiot proof.

:agree: Since I will most likely be one of the idiot's! We have one lane roundabouts in my hometown and they seem to work just fine. So, just to give everyone a fair warning, I will be practicing on the roundabouts the last two weeks of September when we come to TV to contract for our new home. Look out for the women who will be in the left hand lane going round and round because she still is not sure when she is supposed to exit! :loco: Maybe I should just sign up for a roundabout 101 driving lesson. :rolleyes:

[NJblue]

: Look out for the women who will be in the left hand lane going round and round because she still is not sure when she is supposed to exit! :

Well, at least if you are in the inside/left lane you are entitled to go around as many times as you want. Just don't do it from the right lane.

[EdV]

I disagree. Speeding is not based on ignorance of the law. It is quite apparent that those who violate the roundabout rules are not aware that what they are doing is wrong. Once they get a ticket they will learn quite quickly.

Enjoy your dream.

[John_W]

I wish the police would just camp out at the Buena Vista/Bailey Trail traffic circle. Everyday I travel on Bailey Trail and when I reach the Buena Vista traffic circle I normally proceed to the inside lane because to go north on Buena Vista it will be my third exit. In the two months I've lived here not a single day has gone by that a car in the outside lane didn't also go to the third exit alongside me. If I had wanted to go straight on Bailey Trail, which becomes Odell Circle, I would of collided with the car in the outside lane.

As a consequence if I go straight on Bailey Trail to Odell, even though I have the right to use the inside lane because it is my second turn, I will only use the outside lane.

[downeaster]

I give up!:wave:

Me too! :agree: They are here. They are going to stay. They are not going to be redesigned. Learn the rules. Follow the rules.

[Pturner]

Me too! :agree: They are here. They are going to stay. They are not going to be redesigned. Learn the rules. Follow the rules.

:agree: They are what they are and what they are going to be. Follow the rules and assume the other guy won't and you'll be fine.

[NJblue]

Enjoy your dream.

There is no need for comments like that.

[pooh]

Not sure if this has come up before, but today, my friend related something that happened to her just yesterday. Someone got to the roundabout and instead of bearing to the right to go around, they turned left. She was sure they were new and didn't have a clue so she just stopped and so did the traffic behind her.

Please, in addition to watching for people using the wrong lane, make sure to watch for people going in the wrong direction.

[LivingLarge]

This is not correct. A person entering the roundabout in the outer lane must either take the first (a "right" turn) or second exit (go straight on the original road). To proceed beyond the second exit puts him in violation of the roundabout rules. People who do this have been the cause of every one of my near misses in roundabouts.

Exactly correct. There is no 'question' about the roundabouts. Only people who don't seem to understand. I just make sure the guy to my right isn't one of them.

[Schaumburger]

:agree: Since I will most likely be one of the idiot's! We have one lane roundabouts in my hometown and they seem to work just fine. So, just to give everyone a fair warning, I will be practicing on the roundabouts the last two weeks of September when we come to TV to contract for our new home. Look out for the women who will be in the left hand lane going round and round because she still is not sure when she is supposed to exit! :loco: Maybe I should just sign up for a roundabout 101 driving lesson. :rolleyes:

Good luck OCsun while you navigate the roundabouts -- and good luck on your new home purchase :) On my visits to TV I watch myself in the roundabouts very carefully. I will be back in TV on Oct. 7, so fair warning to all.

[momesu]

Exactly correct. There is no 'question' about the roundabouts. Only people who don't seem to understand. I just make sure the guy to my right isn't one of them.

I love single lane roundabouts and hate double lane roundabouts. Double lane roundabouts only work if you only use the outer lane if you are getting on and immediately getting off at next exit. Any time someone crosses a exit in the outer lane they are putting those in the center at risk. JMHO

Suzanne

[EdV]

Exactly my point.

[Barefoot]

Follow the rules and assume the other guy won't and you'll be fine.

For the first three months I lived in TV, (high season), I wouldn't go near a roundabout. Mostly because I'd read scary threads on this site! A lot of posters here still have conflicting ideas on what is correct. Now I use Pturner logic, assume the other drivers won't follow the rules and you'll be fine.

[EdV]

There is no need for comments like that.

Why not, it's a noble dream.

And my solution is unlikely to become reality either. Defensive driving is the only alternative at this point.

[villagegolfer]

I try to approach the rotary with staggering in mind. I try to avoid having another vehicle on neither side of mine.

[Gil Chapin]

There were a few questions about my posting from the other day which I will try to address.

By "inside" and "outside" lanes, I meant the "left" and "right" lanes respectively, making reference to the circle and which lane was closer to the center of the circle.

I do have the brochure and have read it and I thought I understood it. But my concern persists for the case in which, even with everyone following the rules, there is still considerable risk of a collision. Please do correct me If I've not realized something that would make this not so.

I'll try to clarify the case I'm concerned about. I'm entering a two lane roundabout in the right/outer lane with the intention of going to the 2nd/180 degree exit (I don't have my brochure at hand, but I'm pretty sure that's permitted). Another vehicle has already entered the inner/left lane one entrance before me with the intention of taking his second/180 degree exit - one exit before mine. He and I are now next to each other. I intend to continue past his exit (that's why there are dotted lane lines across my path at his exit and that's why there are straight arrows just past his exit in my lane...). I probably can't see his turn signal (which, of course, as required by law, he is using to indicate his intentions to exit the roundabout) and he can't see that I'm not signalling for an exit. He may presume, because he read the brochure and it says he can do this, that he can exit at will because the brochure showed both lanes exiting together when you both go "straight through". Except he didn't realize that I'm not taking the same "straight through" path he's expecting. My second exit is the next one. So either he turns into me when he crosses into my lane or I hit him when he gets a little ahead of me and crosses my lane - even though we both followed "the rules". My point is that whenever you're in a roundabout, you probably don't know the other driver's situation and you have to presume the worst, even if it means yielding in a situation where you thought you had the right of way.

Too frequently, I see vehicles in the inside/left lane in the roundabout take an exit without looking to see what the vehicle near them in the outer/right lane is going to do. It's very scary.

I know... I know... I'll go away now.

[EdV]

You see, even though you read the rule book and thought you understood it, you missed a very important point (and I did too when I first read the rules). You are not to enter the roundabout until both lanes are free of traffic.

It’s understandable why most drivers miss this point because it’s counterintuitive to what they’ve become accustomed to. When you are on an entry ramp to a two lane road with a yield sign, most drivers will enter as long as the right hand lane is free, not both lanes. But the roundabouts rules change that. Both lanes must be free.

[l2ridehd]

Just think of a roundabout as two four lane roads joining at a traffic light. If you wanted to turn right at that light you would always be in the right lane. If you wanted to turn left, you would always be in the left lane. If you wanted to go straight through, you could be in either lane.

And you would always yield to someone already in the intersection regardless of the light.

If you always remember the person already in the circle has the ROW and don't enter until both lanes are free and follow as if a four way traffic light, roundabouts work great at moving traffic much better then traffic lights.

[Gil Chapin]

You see, even though you read the rule book and thought you understood it, you missed a very important point (and I did too when I first read the rules). You are not to enter the roundabout until both lanes are free of traffic.

It’s understandable why most drivers miss this point because it’s counterintuitive to what they’ve become accustomed to. When you are on an entry ramp to a two lane road with a yield sign, most drivers will enter as long as the right hand lane is free, not both lanes. But the roundabouts rules change that. Both lanes must be free.

OK, that makes sense. It's perhaps a question of how many of us actually do that... Not that I wasn't cautious about entering anyway, but now that I know that, I'll wait even longer. Thanks for the tip.

[NJblue]

OK, that makes sense. It's perhaps a question of how many of us actually do that... Not that I wasn't cautious about entering anyway, but now that I know that, I'll wait even longer. Thanks for the tip.

Gil, you point out another risk with the circles. When I am in the left/inside lane approaching where I have to exit I too am concerned about the car who wants to enter the roundabout at the entrance just before my exit not yielding to me since he sees that the outer lane is free. What I find myself having to do (in addition to using my turn signal in hopes that the entering car will see it), despite it being technically against the guidelines, is slightly drift into the right/outer lane before my exit. Hopefully, if the entering car sees this move they will not try to enter.

[NJblue]

Why not, it's a noble dream.

And my solution is unlikely to become reality either. Defensive driving is the only alternative at this point.

Unlike speeding, for which there is a clear motive from the perspective of the violator, improper use of the roundabouts has no motive. A person using the wrong lane does not gain anything. Hence it hardly seems like a "dream" to try something which has never before been done - enforcement - to attempt to educate the public about proper roundabout usage. Besides, even enforcement of speeding laws does at least curtail the problem ... just as would enforcement of roundabout rules.

[momesu]

There were a few questions about my posting from the other day which I will try to address.

By "inside" and "outside" lanes, I meant the "left" and "right" lanes respectively, making reference to the circle and which lane was closer to the center of the circle.

I do have the brochure and have read it and I thought I understood it. But my concern persists for the case in which, even with everyone following the rules, there is still considerable risk of a collision. Please do correct me If I've not realized something that would make this not so.

I'll try to clarify the case I'm concerned about. I'm entering a two lane roundabout in the right/outer lane with the intention of going to the 2nd/180 degree exit (I don't have my brochure at hand, but I'm pretty sure that's permitted). Another vehicle has already entered the inner/left lane one entrance before me with the intention of taking his second/180 degree exit - one exit before mine. He and I are now next to each other. I intend to continue past his exit (that's why there are dotted lane lines across my path at his exit and that's why there are straight arrows just past his exit in my lane...). I probably can't see his turn signal (which, of course, as required by law, he is using to indicate his intentions to exit the roundabout) and he can't see that I'm not signalling for an exit. He may presume, because he read the brochure and it says he can do this, that he can exit at will because the brochure showed both lanes exiting together when you both go "straight through". Except he didn't realize that I'm not taking the same "straight through" path he's expecting. My second exit is the next one. So either he turns into me when he crosses into my lane or I hit him when he gets a little ahead of me and crosses my lane - even though we both followed "the rules". My point is that whenever you're in a roundabout, you probably don't know the other driver's situation and you have to presume the worst, even if it means yielding in a situation where you thought you had the right of way.

Too frequently, I see vehicles in the inside/left lane in the roundabout take an exit without looking to see what the vehicle near them in the outer/right lane is going to do. It's very scary.

I know... I know... I'll go away now.

This is why two lane roundabouts only work when the people entering and staying in the right most lane immediately exit at the next exit. If they can go to the second exit then there is always a potential problem with people in the left most lane trying to get out of the roundabout.
Suzanne

[LivingLarge]

This is why two lane roundabouts only work when the people entering and staying in the right most lane immediately exit at the next exit. If they can go to the second exit then there is always a potential problem with people in the left most lane trying to get out of the roundabout.
Suzanne

Why would there be an issue with that? The outside lane goes straight (has to, but make sure they are!) and the inside lane goes straight or keeps going around.

[pooh]

Just follow the arrows...it's as simple as that!

[Mikeod]

Just follow the arrows...it's as simple as that!
Actually, follow the arrows that are painted at your entrance to the roundabout. They show the right lane going either right or straight and the left lane going straight or left (third exit). Once in the roundabout, the arrows can cause confusion.

The points made above about people not waiting until BOTH lanes are clear before entering the roundabout are the crux of the problem. If drivers followed this and used the proper lanes, the other problems would occur less. You wouldn't have to worry about the person on your right blocking your exit because there wouldn't be anyone on your right. You wouldn't have to worry about the driver in the inner/left lane cutting off your path to go straight because they wouldn't be there.

[graciegirl]

Actually, follow the arrows that are painted at your entrance to the roundabout. They show the right lane going either right or straight and the left lane going straight or left (third exit). Once in the roundabout, the arrows can cause confusion.

The points made above about people not waiting until BOTH lanes are clear before entering the roundabout are the crux of the problem. If drivers followed this and used the proper lanes, the other problems would occur less. You wouldn't have to worry about the person on your right blocking your exit because there wouldn't be anyone on your right. You wouldn't have to worry about the driver in the inner/left lane cutting off your path to go straight because they wouldn't be there.

THAT is my philosophy!

[LittleDog]

If I see someone in the inner lane on a roundabout I will not enter the outer lane until he has gone past my entrance. I am unable to tell whether he will be exiting the next exit unless he uses a turn signal to show that. Best to wait.

John

[Avista]

If I see someone in the inner lane on a roundabout I will not enter the outer lane until he has gone past my entrance. I am unable to tell whether he will be exiting the next exit unless he uses a turn signal to show that. Best to wait.

John

I agree!

[EdV]

Unlike speeding, for which there is a clear motive from the perspective of the violator, improper use of the roundabouts has no motive..

The last time I got a speeding ticket (over 30 years ago) it was because I didn’t notice that the speed limit had dropped from 50 to 35. And how many of you out there have glanced down at your speedometer only to find that you and all the other cars around you are speeding. You didn’t get a ticket, but you should have even though you had no motivation to do so.

And as for motives in the roundabouts, park by a roundabout exit some day and count the number of vehicles that exit without signaling. You’ll be amazed. You think that’s because they don’t know that they’re supposed to signal when turning?

[graciegirl]

This morning about 8:00 we were driving down Buena Vista and there had been an accident at the traffic circle that connects Glenview Country Club and runs alongside the Savannah Center. A SUV had crashed into the entrance posts at the front of the Glenview CC where everyone walks their dogs and feeds the ducks. It was a direct crash into the pillar there. A police car was there but all occupants were gone from the car and the doors were open.

Does anyone know if those people are gonna be o.k.? Their car doesn't look o.k.

Sweetie speculated it was either a health related issue or someone was trying to avoid hitting someone in the traffic circle.

[NJblue]

The last time I got a speeding ticket (over 30 years ago) it was because I didn’t notice that the speed limit had dropped from 50 to 35. And how many of you out there have glanced down at your speedometer only to find that you and all the other cars around you are speeding. You didn’t get a ticket, but you should have even though you had no motivation to do so.

And as for motives in the roundabouts, park by a roundabout exit some day and count the number of vehicles that exit without signaling. You’ll be amazed. You think that’s because they don’t know that they’re supposed to signal when turning?

If the lack of turn signals were the crux of the problem I would agree with you. However, while turn signals may help in some circumstances, the reality is that the problems occur because people who are essentially parallel with each other cross into each other's lane. This is caused by improper lane usage with each person thinking they are in the right. Because of the proximity of the cars to each other, turn signals are at best of secondary value since you can't see the other's signal when they are right next to you.

I'll agree that the roundabouts could be much better designed, but to change them at this point would be prohibitively expensive. Since we clearly have more police resources than we need (witness the silly crackdown on golf carts), these resources could be used to ticket/warn drivers using the roundabouts in the wrong manner. Every person who recognizes that what they thought was the right procedure is actually wrong becomes one less accident waiting to happen.

[EdV]

If the lack of turn signals were the crux of the problem I would agree with you..
I’ll be sure to pass on your sentiments to the widow of the cart driver that was T-Boned at the El Camino Real/Morse Blvd roundabout by a car that failed to indicate its intention to exit the roundabout.

....I'll agree that the roundabouts could be much better designed...
I knew you’d see the light eventually. But I’ll tell you what. In the spirit of compromise, you get the cops to ticket lane violators, I’ll get them to ticket the thousands of signal violators and then we’ll use the fines to fund the roundabout re-do. OK?

[NJblue]

I’ll be sure to pass on your sentiments to the widow of the cart driver that was T-Boned at the El Camino Real/Morse Blvd roundabout by a car that failed to indicate its intention to exit the roundabout.


I'd need to know the specifics of the crash to know whether failure to signal was the root cause, but I tend to doubt it. If the drivers were following the prescribed lane and yielding guidelines, a turn signal is not really required to provide safety. A turn signal is only useful to indicate your intent to exit to someone who has not followed the guidelines ... and even then is only useful if the trailing car is far enough back to see the signal.

[LivingLarge]

If I see someone in the inner lane on a roundabout I will not enter the outer lane until he has gone past my entrance. I am unable to tell whether he will be exiting the next exit unless he uses a turn signal to show that. Best to wait.

John

Nice of you to say that but you know that's what you HAVE to do, right? You cannot enter either lane until they have gone past your entrance. Both lanes need to be clear to enter the roundabout. That is the very first rule listed on the brochure.

[EdV]

...A turn signal is only useful to indicate your intent to exit to someone who has not followed the guidelines ......

You’re not getting it. The cart wasn’t in the roundabout, it was on the cart path that is parallel to the roundabout. When it started to cross El Camino it was T-Boned by the car that exited without signaling.

[NJblue]

You’re not getting it. The cart wasn’t in the roundabout, it was on the cart path that is parallel to the roundabout. When it started to cross El Camino it was T-Boned by the car that exited without signaling.

Oh, I didn't realize that you had changed the topic from general roundabout safety to a very specific case that pertains to only one roundabout that I am aware of. In this specific case, I would agree with you that the design is awful and that no amount of policing would make it truly safe.

Now, back to the general topic of roundabout safety.

[EdV]

Enough already!

[Bogie Shooter]

I think the both of you, njblue and ed, should get a copy of the brochure and go down to Cody's outside bar and discuss this topic over a pither of beer.:spoken:

[GeorgeT]

This roundabout "discussion" is making me dizzy.:confused:
Bottom line...always think that the other drivers don't know what their doing.
CYA

[EdV]

I think we should debate what a pither of beer is.

[Posh 08]

I think we should debate what a pither of beer is.

let's have another "pither"

[Bogie Shooter]

I think we should debate what a pither of beer is.

OK so I fayled spellin, kudnt ewe give me a brak?

[BobandSandy]

OK so I fayled spellin, kudnt ewe give me a brak?

I think your spelling was quite correct..at least phonetically...that is how it is pronounced after the 1st pither of beer

[Schaumburger]

OK so I fayled spellin, kudnt ewe give me a brak?

:a20::a20: Drink your pither of beer. :beer3: I will have a carraffee of wine. :wine: