Casey - Innocent until proven guilty?

[VillagesFlorida]

The prosecutor ascertained in cross of the Police Sgt Computer expert , who read the logs of the computer searches, that the search for chloroform occured 3 seconds prior to a myspace search on the same computer. Cindy previously testified that she has never had a myspace account. Bottom line, the person searching for chloroform was also the person searching for myspace. I think Cindy just committed perjury.

:agree:

It's looking like the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Now I'm wondering if anyone in the Anthony family can tell the truth.

[jebartle]

HOW MUCH IN DETAIL Cindy and Casey TELL their STORIES!....

Also, if the Prosecution is the only one that has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, and Ashton was in the process of impeaching the testimony of the "expert" witness, and the judge ruled that you cannot do that because the defense or in this case defense witness cannot be challenged, does that mean they have a free-run at perjury!!???? And then the next thing we hear is that there is a chance of a mistrial.....I'm totally lost but this will not be the first time!:shrug::shrug:

[Pturner]

GOOD day for the defense! State attorney Jeff Ashton gets a little emotional and this time it came back and "bit him"...Not sure where the leap from what was said (impeaching the witness)to miss trail.....And I still don't understand how the state made the leap that Cindy was NOT the "chloroform" computer user AND did not check with Cindy's supervisor regarding her work history during the chloroform computer searches...Reasonable to assume that even thou the computer shows no connection between chloroform and chlorophyll thru a miss type or similar prefix..If they are looking for reasonable doubt....Hmmm! They may have found it!

Wow, this peaks my curiosity. Was Mrs. Anthony cross examined? Was anything said in court about whether her testimony was consistent with statements she had to police and given in pre-trial deposition(s)?

[jebartle]

Oh, yea, she sang like a little bird.....Stain in trunk was there when they bought the sunbird car for Lee.....She was the one that looked up the word Chloroform.....She remembers the day because her yorkie was acting sleepy, so wanted to look it up under chlorophyll, she told prosecutor that she told her that 3 years ago.....There is a catch, 20 seconds later a hit for facebook, she does not have a facebook account....It's funny most legal experts, think this is typical for mother protecting her child, sure hope the jury can see thru this....Her story came across as very believable to many....













Wow, this peaks my curiosity. Was Mrs. Anthony cross examined? Was anything said in court about whether her testimony was consistent with statements she had to police and given in pre-trial deposition(s)?

[bkcunningham1]

I watched part of it today. She was a witness for the State and then a witness for the defense. The proscecutor was livid and asked her if her memory was better since she had changed her medications since 2009.

I thought to myself, geez, Mrs. Anthony is good. She is really good. No wonder Casey knows how to spin a tale and avoid answering a question truthfully. It was like a train wreck happening. I didn't want to watch; but I couldn't look away.

[LELANDJANE]

My husband and I now believe that since Cindy has perjured herself about the internet searches and chloroform that George will now take the responsibility for the duct tape! What do ya'll think?

[Pturner]

My husband and I now believe that since Cindy has perjured herself about the internet searches and chloroform that George will now take the responsibility for the duct tape! What do ya'll think?

I don't know; but I suspect the state will weigh filing a perjury charge against her. I wonder if she has a good lawyer.

[dillywho]

Missed a lot of it today and didn't set the VCR 'cuz thought it would all be techie stuff. Shucks.

This does make me wonder if maybe the judge isn't questioning his decision to allow the family to sit in on all the testimony. It's probably a moot point, though, unless they would have had to abide by the sequestration rules which I don't think the witnesses do.

I don't think this is the only "bombshell" in the defense's arsenal by any means.

I did see the last part and I don't really understand the judge's ruling following the proffer at the end of the day. Can anyone 'splain it to me?

[Barefoot]

I thought to myself, geez, Mrs. Anthony is good. She is really good. No wonder Casey knows how to spin a tale and avoid answering a question truthfully. It was like a train wreck happening. I didn't want to watch; but I couldn't look away.

Yes, Cindy can be very convincing. The level of detail is amazing. It reminds me of when Casey lied about the fact that Zannie the Nanie kidnapped Caylee. Having said that, it takes only one jury member to believe her. And Cindy is obviously a woman in anguish, so the State has to be very careful about how she is treated.

[duffysmom]

I was struck by Casey's inabiity to look directly at her mother. She would look over at her and her eyes would immediately drop down. Looking at other witnesses she would hold her eyes directly on them; not so with Mom. Interesing and sad at the same time.

[Donna]

I am curious, how Casey can sit there, stone faced while her mom takes the brunt of the computer searches...She is such a mean person!! There is not an ounce of remorse on her part for all she did...

[Donna]

I don't think they will file a pergery charge, for the simple reason, we all know why she did this, including the prosecution..This woman has been through so much, she proved there is no love, like a mothers love!! I am not saying what she did is right, but I personally feel so sorry for this woman, I think the prosecution will take what she has gone through into consideration...Just my opinion...

I don't know; but I suspect the state will weigh filing a perjury charge against her. I wonder if she has a good lawyer.

[Pturner]

Donna,
It's so nice to see you here! We've missed you so.

Hijack over and out. Sorry Tony. :police:

[Donna]

Hey Pturner...Thanks, Nice to be here..Good to see you too..I had to put my 2 cents in this Casey thread..
Tony will forgive us...:bowdown:

Donna,
It's so nice to see you here! We've missed you so.

Hijack over and out. Sorry Tony. :police:

[Donna]

This trial irritates me to no end...Casey's face irritates me...:cus:

Thank God, I am not on the jury!! I have no sympathy for that girl..I look at the pics of that precious little angel, and I could just cry..How can she just sit there...

She is the epitome of a MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope she gets LIFE in prison, so she rots the rest of her life..She will have lots of time to admire her tattoo Bella Vita!!!

[gary42651]

I wanted to learn more about Jose Baez, so I looked him up on Wikipedia and found it to be very interesting.

[jackz]

I wanted to learn more about Jose Baez, so I looked him up on Wikipedia and found it to be very interesting.

I did as well, a very checkered past to say the least. It will be interesting to see if Casey is convicted she will turn around and claim incompetent counsel.

[jblum315]

However, she has no funds to hire another lawyer. I don't even know who's paying Baez.

[jackz]

However, she has no funds to hire another lawyer. I don't even know who's paying Baez.

The taxpayers of the State of Florida.....

[CTgolfer]

Wow, this peaks my curiosity. Was Mrs. Anthony cross examined? Was anything said in court about whether her testimony was consistent with statements she had to police and given in pre-trial deposition(s)?

The TV analysts and lawyers made a good point... they stated that in their opinion, if the prosecutor could prove inconsistent statements from Mrs. Anthony between her pre-trial deposition and her testimony yesterday they could (and perhaps should have) "refreshed" her memory from the deposition. Mrs. Anthony's testimony yesterday indicated she had told both the police and the prosecutor's office about her searching for chlorophyll. This is interesting because if the prosecutor doesn't bring forth Mrs. Anthony's deposition statement to refute her testimony, if I were on the jury, I would have to believe that her testimony is believable.

[EdV]

The prosecutor ascertained in cross of the Police Sgt Computer expert , who read the logs of the computer searches, that the search for chloroform occured 3 seconds prior to a myspace search on the same computer. Cindy previously testified that she has never had a myspace account. Bottom line, the person searching for chloroform was also the person searching for myspace. I think Cindy just committed perjury.

You don’t need to have a MySpace account to be able to use it for a search. See for yourself.

[LELANDJANE]

jblum, I heard yesterday that the lawyers were doing this pro bono. Is that not true?

[Barefoot]

I am curious, how Casey can sit there, stone faced while her mom takes the brunt of the computer searches...She is such a mean person!! There is not an ounce of remorse on her part for all she did...

Donna, if you google "Sociopath", you'll find that Casey fits the definition in every way! No guilt, no empathy, no remorse, no feelings except for herself.


It will be interesting to see if Casey is convicted she will turn around and claim incompetent counsel.

I think it would be difficult for anyone convicted of a crime to prove incompetent counsel! Otherwise every single convicted prisioner would use legal aid to claim incompetent counsel.

[jackz]

Donna, if you google "Sociopath", you'll find that Casey fits the definition in every way! No guilt, no empathy, no remorse, no feelings except for herself.



I think it would be difficult for anyone convicted of a crime to prove incompetent counsel! Otherwise every single convicted prisioner would use legal aid to claim incompetent counsel.

I would normally agree with you but have a look at the Wikepedia info on Baez. The guy has had numerous issues detailed in the info which might lead someone to question why he felt "qualified" to take on a death penatly murder case and certainly question his credibility.

[jackz]

Here is the link to learn a bit about the background of Jose Baez

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Baez

[dillywho]

There is no novelist in the world that could write a story with this many turns and twists.

It's beginning to look like the whole family has known all along what really happened. Family secrets were alluded to from the very first jail visits, through the eulogy, and then to the defense's opening statement. I believe that whatever those secrets are are the key to this whole mess.

I can't help but wonder how Caylee would have turned out had she not died, being brought into such a dysfunctional family. Would she have learned to lie and keep secrets, too? So sad.

[jebartle]

There is no novelist in the world that could write a story with this many turns and twists.

It's beginning to look like the whole family has known all along what really happened. Family secrets were alluded to from the very first jail visits, through the eulogy, and then to the defense's opening statement. I believe that whatever those secrets are are the key to this whole mess.

I can't help but wonder how Caylee would have turned out had she not died, being brought into such a dysfunctional family. Would she have learned to lie and keep secrets, too? So sad.

I feel like I'm watching "ALL MY CHILDREN"

[EdV]

Cindy Anthony did not perjure herself in yesterday’s testimony because in her 2009 depositions chloroform was discussed. And she also discussed possibly searching for other toxic chemicals as well. Also, if you Google for chlorophyll, a link to chloroform appears at the bottom of the page.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/depos/cindyanthonydepo072809.pdf

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/CMA/depos/cindyanthonydepo072909.pdf

Furthermore, the jury doesn’t know that Casey was convicted of seven felonies for the checks she stole from her best friend and subsequently cashed. And to be sure, the Judge and the Defense doesn’t want them to know.

But yesterday when the prosecution asked for the date that Cindy remembered hearing about the computer searches, she said it was "prior to Casey’s arrest on check charges". That doesn’t sound like a mother willing to commit perjury to save her daughter.

[jebartle]

clutching his bible....Will they call him next?...What other surprises do the Anthony's have for us now?

[graciegirl]

jblum, I heard yesterday that the lawyers were doing this pro bono. Is that not true?

Yes. I heard the same. I also heard that when Casey was released that she spent a lot of time with Mr. Baez and that he visits her each evening in her cell. Some tv reports allude they are having an affair .

Pick a little, talk a little, pick a little talk a little, cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep. (name that musical)

And what would the world be without a little gossip?

[Barefoot]

Here is the link to learn a bit about the background of Jose Baez
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Baez

Thanks Jack ... I read the back story for Jose Baez, what a life filled with turmoil and bad decisions. Even if Casey claims ineffective counsel, Baez has achieved "celebrity" status, just like Casey. Book deals, publicity, media interviews.

In my opinion, there are some very dark secrets in that household. I doubt we'll ever know the real truth. Lee Anthony makes me very uncomfortable, I find his behaviour strange indeed. There are some days I feel sorry for Cindy and George going through so much anguish with a lying daughter they're trying to protect. There are some days I almost feel sorry for Casey being raised by such disfunctional parents. But mostly, I just want justice for Caylee, that pure sweet angel.

[dillywho]

I have often heard these terms but did not know their meanings. I thought maybe someone else might not exactly know, either.

Inculpatory evidence is a legal term used to describe evidence that shows, or tends to show, a person's involvement in an act, or evidence that can establish guilt. In criminal law, the prosecution has a duty to provide all evidence to the defense, whether it favours the prosecution's case, or the defendant's case. Evidence which tends to show a person's innocence is considered exculpatory evidence.

For example, if a man is poisoned to death by an overdose of arsenic, and a bottle of arsenic is found in the purse of his wife, that bottle could be considered inculpatory evidence against his wife.

[dillywho]

The State may be trying to pull some fast ones, too. Surely the State has done some research on Roy Kronk and knows this:

Remember what I said previously about Roy Kronk? This morning, Tony Pipitone pointed out that the photos shown yesterday of Caylee's skull in the woods showed that it was buried up to the eye sockets in muck. He also said that Roy Kronk said when he made his "find" that when the skull rolled out, he picked it up by an eye socket and then put it down. (Gracie, would you ask Helene if she remembers this since she's following it all closely as well?) Wonder how he will testify at trial? Kronk's prior statements should be on tape or tv footage somewhere. Could he be involved in some way?

Like I've said before, Casey knows exactly what happened. Guilty of murder warranting the death penalty? I can't see that, yet. The trial still has a long way to go. The truth is out there somewhere, but it may be hidden so well that it can never be found in total.

This is Roy Kronk talking to Detective Yuri Melich. It is totally opposite of what Ashton claimed and demonstrated about the skull being buried in muck when it was found. He does say here that he didn't touch it, but in other interviews he said he did.

http://youtu.be/NjRWRN3PfGU

Wonder if this will come out if/when he testifies.

[CMANN]

[QUOTE=dillywho;365438]This is Roy Kronk talking to Detective Yuri Melich. It is totally opposite of what Ashton claimed and demonstrated about the skull being buried in muck when it was found. He does say here that he didn't touch it, but in other interviews he said he did.

http://youtu.be/NjRWRN3PfGU

Wonder if this will come out if/when he testifies.[/Q

According to this Kronk found the skull in a bag and it "rolled out." Not buried in the muck?

C

[Donna]

I am anxious to see, what took place behind closed doors on Sat... :shrug:
If Casey knows what's good for her, she will take a plea, if one is on the table!!!
I'll bet, she gets about 40 years or more..Any thoughts????

[EdV]

I don’t know about anyone else, but I find ‘The Wizard Of Ahs’, err I mean Judge Belvin Perry irritatingly slow in delivering his pronouncements. It seems to take him forever to complete even the simplest sentence.

I realize he is well regarded in the legal community for his knowledge of criminal law proceedings, but I could prepare a three course dinner in the time it takes him to announce a fifteen minute recess.

[Freeda]

The only thing that I heard about a bone being in the 'muck' was when Ashton was cross-examining the female defense botanist, and he asked her about a hip bone that he said was buried about 4 inches into the muck when the remains were found. (That was when she replied that that would mean that either the bone would have been there more than two weeks, or that the other explanation for it being buried that deeply was that a dog or coyote could have buried it).

I haven't heard all of the testimony though; did someone testify that the skull was also partially buried when it was found, since Kronk's phone call clearly says that the skull rolled out of the bag when he poked at it with his meter stick?

[dillywho]

The only thing that I heard about a bone being in the 'muck' was when Ashton was cross-examining the female defense botanist, and he asked her about a hip bone that he said was buried about 4 inches into the muck when the remains were found. (That was when she replied that that would mean that either the bone would have been there more than two weeks, or that the other explanation for it being buried that deeply was that a dog or coyote could have buried it).

I haven't heard all of the testimony though; did someone testify that the skull was also partially buried when it was found, since Kronk's phone call clearly says that the skull rolled out of the bag when he poked at it with his meter stick?

Freeda, look at post #229. Jeff Ashton, the prosecutor, even demonstrated how deep the skull was in muck on his cross with Dr. Bock. Apparently, this may have been what the photos that were presented in court showed. To me, these discrepancies bring into question discovery of the remains site tampering (in all fairness to which Ashton would not have any involvement) by someone there. You're right, it was a portion of leg bone they were discussing as well as possibly being buried 4 inches in the muck by animals .

I'm not sure what a lot of this has to do with anything because whatever happened was not right...a child is dead. I just think there are too many fabrications all around and they are coming from both sides. Roy Kronk was not even consistent in what he said (sometimes he used his meter stick; another time, he picked up the bag and it rolled out; etc.) To me, what's important is the truth....not victories and/or the politics of anyone. Caylee is the one who deserves the victory....the truth.

[Freeda]

I wish I had heard the testimony of the crime scene investigators who first responded to the scene, to know what they said about the state the skull and other remains were in, insofar as whether they were stuck in the ground/muck or not, vs. lying loose and freely on the ground or in the bag; since Kronk's account (at least, his first one) was clearly stating that the skull was loose and rolled out of the bag.

So, I wonder if Jeff Ashton's questions to the defense's botanist (and perhaps to other witnesses?) describing the skull as being stuck in the ground when it was discovered were in error as to this point (the significance of which is to dispel the defense's theory that the remains had been moved; and, thus, that someone may have tampered with them, placed the duct tape etc - to add confusion and uncertainty about what actually had happened). If Ashton was in error in framing his questions with this description (ie, in stating that the skull was partially embedded in the muck when found), I'm surprised that the defense didn't catch this and object, if there was no evidence on which that question was based. My brains are getting exhausted from trying to digest all of the minutiae, and wondering whether there is just one small point that might clear up all of the confusion so we can know, for sure, exactly what happened. I suspect we will never know, for sure, which is part of what I think makes this case so intriguing, and also sad. Still keeping an open mind, but it still seems to me at this point that there are only two viable explanations, both bad for Casey.

[graciegirl]

I wish I had heard the testimony of the crime scene investigators who first responded to the scene, to know what they said about the state the skull and other remains were in, insofar as whether they were stuck in the ground/muck or not, vs. lying loose and freely on the ground or in the bag; since Kronk's account (at least, his first one) was clearly stating that the skull was loose and rolled out of the bag.

So, I wonder if Jeff Ashton's questions to the defense's botanist (and perhaps to other witnesses?) describing the skull as being stuck in the ground when it was discovered were in error as to this point (the significance of which is to dispel the defense's theory that the remains had been moved; and, thus, that someone may have tampered with them, placed the duct tape etc - to add confusion and uncertainty about what actually had happened). If Ashton was in error in framing his questions with this description (ie, in stating that the skull was partially embedded in the muck when found), I'm surprised that the defense didn't catch this and object, if there was no evidence on which that question was based. My brains are getting exhausted from trying to digest all of the minutiae, and wondering whether there is just one small point that might clear up all of the confusion so we can know, for sure, exactly what happened. I suspect we will never know, for sure, which is part of what I think makes this case so intriguing, and also sad. Still keeping an open mind, but it still seems to me at this point that there are only two viable explanations, both bad for Casey.

I think you are very right, counselor. I am VERY curious to find what has happened in chambers, just as Donna says.

It seems that the family is doing all they can to save her life. I am so confused as to what Lee was crying about...not knowing his sister was pregnant? no. I don't think he was her lover or anything sinister like that.....but what is he crying over?

It is just one of the most overwhelming, and bitterly sad things a person could witness. All these nice looking, on the surface...normal people and all this horrible mess just under the surface. I think Casey will never tell what really happened but I have to wonder if it happened when she was drunk or high. She obviously has no remorse.

That dear little girl.....it is so sad.

[Pturner]

I think you are very right, counselor. I am VERY curious to find what has happened in chambers, just as Donna says.


Wild-haired guess, based on ... nothing: Whether to let the family stay in court during testimony, as they will again be called as witnesses. Even worse wild-haired speculation: Something to do with a witness impeaching himself/herself and/or possible perjury changes.

... or it could be something boring.

[bkcunningham1]

I heard speculation today that the jury was sent home today so the judge could look into some allegations of evidence tampering. I don't know if it is true or not.

Another speculation was that Casey was ready to cope a plea. Another interesting thing is the judicial ruling (which doesn't affect this trail at the moment) that Florida's death penalty is unconstitutional. That has apparently been discussed more than once in Florida.

Either way, we can't lose sight of what this entire thing is about. That is justice for the three year old little girl whose body was dumped in a trash heap. Somebody knows what happened. Somebody and God. I would be scared to death holding a secret like that.

[jebartle]

Noticed that Casey was given a mean stearn look to Chaney Mason....Do you think they were going to Mason's office to retrieve the remainder of his paperwork on this case because he was fired!....He is pro bono, so I'm sure it would not take much for him to say "good bye"!

[CMANN]

I am anxious to see, what took place behind closed doors on Sat... :shrug:
If Casey knows what's good for her, she will take a plea, if one is on the table!!!
I'll bet, she gets about 40 years or more..Any thoughts????

I do not think that she will plea. Furthermore, I think that this case will drag on through appeals so that due to our age, some of us will not live long enough to see how it ends.

C

[ceejay]

I heard speculation today that the jury was sent home today so the judge could look into some allegations of evidence tampering. I don't know if it is true or not.

Another speculation was that Casey was ready to cope a plea. Another interesting thing is the judicial ruling (which doesn't affect this trail at the moment) that Florida's death penalty is unconstitutional. That has apparently been discussed more than once in Florida. Either way, we can't lose sight of what this entire thing is about. That is justice for the three year old little girl whose body was dumped in a trash heap. Somebody knows what happened. Somebody and God. I would be scared to death holding a secret like that.

Looks like you may have hit that head-on BK. I guess that's what is being discussed right now in Chambers.

God forbid they call a mis-trial.

[ceejay]

Looks like you may have hit that head-on BK. I guess that's what is being discussed right now in Chambers.

God forbid they call a mis-trial.

Looks like she can wipe that crazy smile off her face now!

393

I was on pins and needles when they announced the reason for the conference and Judge Perry was making his announcement. I really thought she had a chance to be declared incompetent. Thank God for the justice system.:pepper2:

[graciegirl]

What happened? I am packing...Oh someone tell me.

[Freeda]

The defense had filed a motion on Saturday asking the Judge to determine whether Casey was mentally competent to continue trial. He had 3 psychologists examine her over the weekend, and found her to be competent; so 'Court is in Session!'

[springfield illinois]

I bet the brother is the father of the child,,,,that is the reason he was excluded for the pregnancy and birth....just my two cents!

[ceejay]

I bet the brother is the father of the child,,,,that is the reason he was excluded for the pregnancy and birth....just my two cents!

They've already done DNA tests and have determined that he IS NOT the father of Caylee.

I think I just sounded like Jerry Springer!

[springfield illinois]

Somewhere out there is the father of this child who must be having a hard time,,,just imagine what must be going thru his mind,,,dealing with family would be the in-laws from hell!

[bkcunningham1]

According to Casey, the father is dead. Nobody really knows who the father of the dead little girl is, springfield.

[rubicon]

Casey's Uncle says he believes Casey doesn't know who the father is because of numerous lovers.

For me it all comes down to closure. Innocent or guilty let's get this done I can't go through another trial. Please somebody stop me from watching thisbarf

[jebartle]

Agh! nauseous! Please, someone kill me!.....Experts need experts!


Casey's Uncle says he believes Casey doesn't know who the father is because of numerous lovers.

For me it all comes down to closure. Innocent or guilty let's get this done I can't go through another trial. Please somebody stop me from watching thisbarf

[Freeda]

The only escape is to immediately take a one month or longer cruise somewhere not in the US. We are considering it.

[dillywho]

Can anyone say addiction? Like I said before, no novelist or soap opera writer could top this.

[JenAjd]

We've left FL to visit family and friends in the North! Other than a very short tidbit in the local news we aren't being saturated here with the Anthony trial. It is a very nice respite for sure!! Was hoping that "they" will come to the winding down phase of this debacle and get a verdict!!!

[jebartle]

when asked if he would like to re-direct private-detective with loss of hearing, he said , No, we are good here!....Thank you:bowdown::bowdown:

[robertj1954]

WE all seem to enjoy sharing our opinions on this trial. I have watched it when I have the time, (not allowing it to interfere with my Tee times) so there are holes in my own personal coverage of the trial.

I was perplexed and curious over the drama on Saturday when the judge recessed until Monday. Now that we know it was done to allow for the examination of Casey by 3 psychologists to determine her competency, it makes it easier to predict what is ahead in the trial by the defense.

Her defense team requested the competency hearing because they do plan to put her on as a witness. They have wasted a week disputing the science that put a body in the trunk of Casey's car. I believe the jury(like me) will reject that entire portion of their defense. They will give more weight to every professional exposed to the car (including her parents), who said the car smelled like a dead body! The body did not walk to the dumping site, someone had to have driven it there. We now know it was not Zanny!

Casey has no choice but to testify thanks to the opening argument made by her attorney. She is already a proven liar, and the evidence put on by the prosecutor (circumstantial but compelling) points to her murdering her own baby and then becoming a party girl shortly afterwards. Watch for Jeff Ashton, Assistant Prosecutor, during the cross examination. He will systematically take Casey apart on the stand. He will eviscerate Casey and make the prosecutions closing argument more compelling to the jurors. The only remaining issue to be determined? Will Casey Anthony get the death penalty? Personally, I think not, she is a wicked, evil woman, but lock her up forever and save the taxpayers the expense of 20 years of appeals. My two cents to some good view points here in this forum. It will be an interesting week. I need to get outside and cut the grass so I don’t miss today! :laugh:

[graciegirl]

The difference between addiction to this trial or not is if we have watched it for more than three hours straight at any time. My good friend wasn't watching it but did when she had to fill out a lot of paperwork lately, and now she is pulled in.

When we were driving back and forth to The Villages...which is a sum of 28 hours in the last WEEK, Helene and I were constantly wondering what was happening.

My latest quandary is why she was so peppy and smiling yesterday morning?

When they show all of the pictures of Caylee, we all remember how many pictures we took of our first grandchild if we were lucky enough to live close by, and the backyard with the playhouse and all of the other stuff, just for her pulls at my heart. We see a fashion show of different pretty little outfits and all those sunglasses and each of us see the joy a little toddler from the next generation brings to grandparents. We see her sweetness as she was told to hug a great grandfather she barely knows, and her intelligence as she looks through her book and points at items as her eyes sparkle. We cannot bear to hear her sing "You are my sunshine".

Whoever took her life took sunshine from all of us.

There will never, ever be justice for her loss. We can only do what the laws allow.

[sandybill2]

Don't know if anyone has seen the video from Sat that apparently resulted in the competency hearing. It is on Channel 9 Orlando web page--If I were more computer literate I could post link but afraid I can't. She instantly went into a rage and her face was distorted, etc. Don't know what caused it. Apparently the jury was in the room at the time--I hope they saw it and could see who she probably really is and who Caylee and the family probably dealt with more than once.

[Freeda]

I saw it. It was a very enraged expression. She appeared to be speaking to someone to her right and gesturing angrily in that direction, and then the female prosecutor walked past the table where Casey was sitting, coming from that same direction. Don't know if there was a connection or what Casey was saying but her expression was very hostile; then it appeared that Casey looked over and realized she was on camera, and immediately became expressionless.

[graciegirl]

I saw that too. Very angry and hostile.

I think that sitting there and not being able to manipulate people with her excuses and her elaborate lies is a terrible ordeal for her.

good.

[dillywho]

This is not what he said in his police interviews. He tells different stories all the time. Check out his statements on YouTube. In interview 1 he said that he picked up the bag and the skull rolled out. Which story is right? Just asking..... Jeff Ashton said that the skull was buried up to the eye sockets in muck....Kronk just blew that up when asked specifically if it was buried.

[jblum315]

Here is a link to Casey's appearance on Saturday:
http://www.clickorlando.com/video/28362472/index.html

[Barefoot]

Cindy Anthony and her son Lee gave conflicting testimony today which indicated, for sure, that one of them is lying under oath. Cindy said she hadn't directed the men to search the local area, and Lee contradicted her and said that Cindy had given that direction.

Obviously they had discussed this "strategy" prior to their appearances. They sat together after their testimonies. It appears that Cindy and Lee are both deliberately indicating to the jury that one of them is a liar. Since they are both trying to save Caylee's life, What would be purpose of this?

Does anyone out there really believe George didn't have an affair with "that woman"?

[nitakk]

Cindy Anthony and her son Lee gave conflicting testimony today which indicated, for sure, that one of them is lying under oath. Cindy said she hadn't directed the men to search the local area, and Lee contradicted her and said that Cindy had given that direction.

Obviously they had discussed this "strategy" prior to their appearances. They sat together after their testimonies. It appears that Cindy and Lee are both deliberately indicating to the jury that one of them is a liar. Since they are both trying to save Caylee's life, What would be purpose of this?

Does anyone out there really believe George didn't have an affair with "that woman"?

Except Lee tripped it all up when he said this happened before he went back to work in October 2008, yet the two PI's didn't walk into that area on Suburban Drive until November 15 according to both their testimonies and the recordings they have. He negated his own testimony - that, and he has issues. Sounds like he gets his feelings hurt a little too much. And what about that totally inappropriate laugh when asked by the prosecutor if he believed all of his sister's stories at that point. It was like, "are you kidding me? Hell, no!".

It seems to me that George did have a relationship with that woman but I find no relevance in it to the case. If she goes on the stand and says he told her this was an accident that got totally out of control, and he says he didn't say that - well, would you believe a girl who calls herself "Krystal River"?? I will say George's testimony yesterday was too verbal and he should have kept the answers short and sweet without offering explanations. This family gives a whole new meaning to the word "disfunctional"!

[EdV]

....would you believe a girl who calls herself "Krystal River"??.....

You mean River Cruz.

[graciegirl]

Whether or not he had sex with this woman has no bearing on this case. If he did, just think how that added to Cindy's pain, who is lying on the stand to protect her daughter.

Or does Baez think that having sex with her will make him look like a child molester in the eyes of the jury? I think...the term mistress implies a love relationship...or a relationship, which I doubt happened.

Quell mess!!!

[jblum315]

My thoughts today:
1. Casey wants to testify (that's why she's looking so cheerful today) but she will be talked out of it.
2. Every single person on the stand (with the exception of a couple of expert witnesses) has lied and lied and lied again.

[Barefoot]

Whether or not he had sex with this woman has no bearing on this case.

You're right, GG. Other than .... if George Anthony had sex with River Cruz and lied about it under oath, it would make the rest of George's testimony suspect. George Anthony's testimony on Wednesday morning has been painful to watch. Whatever the outcome of this trial, there are two broken parents in anguish and a poor innocent child gone forever.

I wish I could stop watching the coverage.

[graciegirl]

I personally am not good at lying.

I also am not good at playing poker.

[swimdawg]

:agree:My thoughts today:
1. Casey wants to testify (that's why she's looking so cheerful today) but she will be talked out of it.
2. Every single person on the stand (with the exception of a couple of expert witnesses) has lied and lied and lied again.

:agree:
I can't believe I am so hooked on this case. It's fascinating.
I've got it on the TV, XM car radio, iPhone and iPad.
What happened to my music of the 50's, Neil Diamond, etc? They are taking a long long rest....until this trial is over with!

You are 100% correct about all the lies. UNBELIEVABLE....the whole family!!!

[robertj1954]

The Defense (Jose Biaze) made a fatal error this morning. He has committed many errors throughout the trial, but this error, bringing in the suicide of George Anthony is huge!

The judge will have to allow the Prosecution to expand on the suicide which will convince the jury, George Anthony had no involvement in the death of His Grand daughter, which is what the defense is trying to prove. Game over!

[VillagesFlorida]

:agree:

:agree:
I can't believe I am so hooked on this case. It's fascinating.
I've got it on the TV, XM car radio, iPhone and iPad.
What happened to my music of the 50's, Neil Diamond, etc? They are taking a long long rest....until this trial is over with!

You are 100% correct about all the lies. UNBELIEVABLE....the whole family!!!

Do you, or does anyone know if the trial is being broadcast on any regular radio stations, FM or AM? I do not have access to satellite radio.

[dillywho]

Sure makes many of our problems pale in comparison, doesn't it?

What a high price Caylee paid for this family's selfishness! Not just Casey's, but the entire family. Had this child been adopted out when Casey wanted to, this would never have happened. Her parents share in that selfishness ... they wanted the baby that Casey didn't. With open adoptions in this day and age, they could have still enjoyed their granddaughter and their daughter. Casey's first mistake was in letting her mother make the decision. She was an adult in the eyes of the law and didn't need her mother's permission.

[swimdawg]

Do you, or does anyone know if the trial is being broadcast on any regular radio stations, FM or AM? I do not have access to satellite radio.

VF...Try 104.1 radio out of Orlando. Also Orlando WESH.
I'm up on Buffalo area....so I'm not too sure of the station number.
Orlando Sentinel says they're streaming live. Hope this helps.

[VillagesFlorida]

Thank you. I will check out these suggestions!

[graciegirl]

Sure makes many of our problems pale in comparison, doesn't it?

What a high price Caylee paid for this family's selfishness! Not just Casey's, but the entire family. Had this child been adopted out when Casey wanted to, this would never have happened. Her parents share in that selfishness ... they wanted the baby that Casey didn't. With open adoptions in this day and age, they could have still enjoyed their granddaughter and their daughter. Casey's first mistake was in letting her mother make the decision. She was an adult in the eyes of the law and didn't need her mother's permission.

I somehow think that Casey Anthony pretty much always did what Casey Anthony wanted to do.


It was when her mother said she would no longer baby sit Caylee, probably in the hope that the tough love stand would make Casey see her adult responsiblities, it was then that Casey got rid of Caylee.

That is my take anyway.

[Barefoot]

The Defense (Jose Biaze) made a fatal error this morning. He has committed many errors throughout the trial, but this error, bringing in the suicide of George Anthony is huge! The judge will have to allow the Prosecution to expand on the suicide which will convince the jury, George Anthony had no involvement in the death of His Grand daughter, which is what the defense is trying to prove. Game over!

I agree that the introduction of the suicide attempt is key. The Defense made the State very happy this morning.

[katezbox]

Sure makes many of our problems pale in comparison, doesn't it?

What a high price Caylee paid for this family's selfishness! Not just Casey's, but the entire family. Had this child been adopted out when Casey wanted to, this would never have happened. Her parents share in that selfishness ... they wanted the baby that Casey didn't. With open adoptions in this day and age, they could have still enjoyed their granddaughter and their daughter. Casey's first mistake was in letting her mother make the decision. She was an adult in the eyes of the law and didn't need her mother's permission.

Dilly,

I have said this all along. I think of a childless couple and what they and Caylee would have shared.


Gracie,

I haven't watched this very much - just as an adoptee, I have such strong feelings about how adoption has been marginalized today. Pregnant girls and young women seem to only have two choices - when many times the third one, adoption, is the real choice that is best for the child.

[dsnrbec]

I totally agree with Katezbox. As grandparents of 4 beautiful adopted grandchildren, I sometimes shutter to think where these precious little ones would have ended up had they stayed with their birth parents. We are strong advocates for adoption and get on our soapboxes whenever we can!

[ceejay]

What's with Casey? She has been reading and writing all afternoon.

Do you think she's preparing for her own testimony?

:mmmm: I love this new emoticon! I think this is what the prosecution feels like, waiting to get her on the stand!

[jebartle]

barfbarf ......Hey Ceejay, Do they have an icon for "foot in mouth" for the defense!!!!?????

[duffysmom]

Last night they had prison guards talk about Casey's demeanor these last three years while locked up in a 6x8 cell in protective custory. I was shocked to hear that she is ALWAYS pleasant and smiles a great deal. They did say that she has cried at times but most of the time she is PLEASANT and never angry or unpleasant. How is that possible? The guards appeared to be fond of her. I can't fathom how she could exist under extreme conditions and remain PLEASANT. Consistently PLEASANT. This girl is an enigma and fascinating to watch. She actually looks like she is enjoying herself.

[graciegirl]

barfbarf ......Hey Ceejay, Do they have an icon for "foot in mouth" for the defense!!!!?????

So RIGHT!! About the "Professor of Traumatology".

She is so scattered and can't stay on topic. How the hay did she get all those degrees??? Academia at its worst!!!!

[Barefoot]

She actually looks like she is enjoying herself.

Any time Casey is the center of attention, she enjoys herself. The analysts are all saying that she thinks she is smarter than everyone else and she feels that she is in complete control.

So RIGHT!! About the "Professor of Traumatology".

She is so scattered and can't stay on topic. How the hay did she get all those degrees??? Academia at its worst!!!!

They are having a tough time keeping her on topic.

[sandybill2]

Missed alot of trial today---hate I am so "obsessed" with it. My 16 year old granddaughter is here now and I don't want to "go there" with her. She knows what's going on---I look at her when we are watching it---and I can believe George's reaction to losing "Caylee"--- my reaction to losing my "heart" would be so life consuming---so unbearable----the only time I see any reaction whatsoever from Casey is when they are "talking about what might be possibly related to HER!!!" tHE GRIEF counselor today was so "OUT THERE"---hand gestures, etc., No way would I ever want her to "counsel" me or anyone that I loved. I just want some sort of justice for Caylee---the little one that lost her life---she wasn't ready to "go"---she didn't know that she was in her mother's way---she was just an extra "sunshine" that was gone so fast---so needlessly---and ended up with a "mother" that was so heartless and didn't care about anyone but herself. As I have said before--my opinion--one that is so dear to me because of my beautiful granddaughter---our "song" was and is "you are my sunshine" --- know there are other opinions ==but this one is mine.

[dillywho]

I know I will be in the minority, but I don't buy all of what George was selling today or the first time he testified about whether he molested Casey. I am not saying that Casey is not guilty...I still think of something....just not sure yet of what or if she was the only one involved.

Part of the problem with George is that everytime he was asked about molesting her, his answer was, "I would never do that to my daughter", not, "No, I did not". Even when asked about not admitting it if he had, his answer was the same....not, "No, because I did not molest her"....just always his same pat answer. Why was he allowed to ramble on and on and on everytime he was asked anything and challenge Baez? No one else was allowed to do it. Linda Burdict even told one person testifying that she as the witness was not allowed to ask questions.. and that she, Linda, was the only one that could do that. Even when Baez would tell him that (whatever it happened to be at the time) he was not answering the question he was asked, he was still allowed to go off on his own tangent without ever actually answering and say whatever he wanted to say. Except for once when Baez pointed this out to the judge, he would be overruled. Why? Even one of the legal analysts, Mark NeJame I think it was, said last night that he was "protesting, talking too much" which hurts credibility.

I don't doubt that he is grieving for Caylee. Do I buy into what the defense came out with in their opening statement? No. I would be surprised that if by some remote chance it turned out to be the truth....beyond surprised, actually. Even if it were, I certainly don't think it's her problem.

I do still believe that everyone in that family knows the truth. Will the rest of the world ever know? I seriously doubt it.

Still, so many questions...so few answers.

[barb1191]

My heart aches for Cindy Anthony as I feel that she is totally innocent of any and all of the horrors of this case and Cindy was the only one who took care of Caylee and was always there for that little darlin. I do believe that Cindy's tears and pain are for real.

George's tears are his way of begging for sympathy however, he can't stand himself for his blunders and is seeking pity to beat the accusations of his coverup. Tomorrow should be interesting when the couger River Cruise (or whatever her name is) takes the stand.

The ditzy blonde psycho expert was so full of herself that she sure didn't make any points with the prosecutors. Interesting point that I assume is a lie on her part when she said that she knew nothing of this case upon appearing in court today, saying she was in UK and just returned. Oh really? It is said that this case has spread worldwide and her head must have been in the sand for her to not know anything about this very hi-profile case. Lies, lies, all lies.

[pqrstar]

Was the grief expert chewing gum on the stand?

[robertj1954]

Was the grief expert chewing gum on the stand?

She is one of those helping Biaze hold the prison cell door open for Casey!

[jebartle]

In his advanced? legal terminology "it is more blay, blay, blay by the prosecution?????? OMG.....I know this case will go before all Law schools as what NOT to do when you are a defense attorney.....So sad!

\

[Barefoot]

What an interesting day. I'm not sure that I found River Cruz to be a credible witness, but we've certainly heard before that George has had numerous affairs. We know now for sure that Casey will not be testifying. And possibly the State has evidence showing that Cindy lied about being off work and at home on the day of the chloroform searches. Closing arguments should be fascinating.

[dillywho]

:22yikes:Or "Boy, Howdy" as Gracie would say! I bet that Matthew kid has NEVER been dressed down like Judge Perry just did. It could be that getting caught in a criminal act will keep him on the straight and narrow. Maybe it will even inspire him to become a judge.....at the very least, he has most likely learned the meaning of respect...albeit the hard way.:BigApplause:

[dillywho]

:22yikes: Just found out this "kid" is 28 years old! Apparently, he didn't learn behavior at an early age.

[red tail]

:22yikes: Just found out this "kid" is 28 years old! Apparently, he didn't learn behavior at an early age.

he is my hero. i think ashton is an ....... !

[jebartle]

he is my hero. i think ashton is an ....... !

Have u been following this case redtail!?

This feeling you have for Jeff Ashton, sounds personal!

[ceejay]

he is my hero. i think ashton is an ....... !

Wow...I feel just the opposite in regards to Mr. Ashton. I think he is doing a great job and I believe that Justice will be served.

If you really look at the video, I don't think he is giving the finger to Ashton.
It looks like to me like he's mugging for the camera and taping it at home so he can show it to his friends. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Definitely not a "hero" and I find it hard to believe that someone would say that he is.:( Amazing.

[HeyGirly]

This is my first post about the trial. It's been a difficult thing to watch at times because I am a mother, and I have five grandchildren under the age of 7. I think: this whole family is way more dysfunctional than the rest of us; KC acted alone in ending her daughter's life; her parents & brother are broken souls over the loss of Caylee; the state prosecutors are doing a fine, fine job; Jose Bias has one consistent skill, and that is to call witnesses for the defense who consistently backfire on his client; Jose Bias has an ego larger than North America; Judge Perry is simply fantastic; it's been such an education about our legal system. Signed, Can't Wait to See What Happens Next

[Barefoot]

I bet that Matthew kid has NEVER been dressed down like Judge Perry just did. It could be that getting caught in a criminal act will keep him on the straight and narrow. Maybe it will even inspire him to become a judge.....at the very least, he has most likely learned the meaning of respect...albeit the hard way.

I loved the fact that Judge Perry actually followed up his lecture with a stiff penalty. A good "respect" lesson for everyone.

A high-profile case like this one must be so stressful for the Judge, as well as everyone else involved. I like Judge Perry and think he is doing a fine job of staying calm and keeping everyone on track.

[Schaumburger]

Is this a pro bono case or are the taxpayers of the State of Florida paying the tab? Or are Casey's parents bankrupting themselves to pay for this?

[jebartle]

Is this a pro bono case or are the taxpayers of the State of Florida paying the tab? Or are Casey's parents bankrupting themselves to pay for this?

Chaney Mason is pro bono, not sure about other attorneys on defense...Baez has already been paid...I'm sure all will be given opportunities to fill their pockets after trial.

[graciegirl]

Chaney Mason is pro bono, not sure about other attorneys on defense...Baez has already been paid...I'm sure all will be given opportunities to fill their pockets after trial.

I wonder if anyone will ever want to hire Jose Baez?

I wouldn't.

But so far I have hired a lawyer to make our wills.

That is all. I hope it stays that way.

[jebartle]

I wonder if anyone will ever want to hire Jose Baez?

I wouldn't.

But so far I have hired a lawyer to make our wills.

That is all. I hope it stays that way.

He would be the last attorney I'd hire....What is left for defenses closing????? Probably some more smut!

[bkcunningham1]

Wow...I feel just the opposite in regards to Mr. Ashton. I think he is doing a great job and I believe that Justice will be served.

If you really look at the video, I don't think he is giving the finger to Ashton.
It looks like to me like he's mugging for the camera and taping it at home so he can show it to his friends. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Definitely not a "hero" and I find it hard to believe that someone would say that he is.:( Amazing.

I told my husband the exact same thing. It looks like he is mugging for the camera and the gesture isn't directed at anyone (maybe one of his friends watching it on television at home or Tivoing it so they can laugh at it later.) Either way, the judge set an example that there will be no tomfoolery in his court. (We are so smart ceejay. tee hee)

[graciegirl]

I told my husband the exact same thing. It looks like he is mugging for the camera and the gesture isn't directed at anyone (maybe one of his friends watching it on television at home or Tivoing it so they can laugh at it later.) Either way, the judge set an example that there will be no tomfoolery in his court. (We are so smart ceejay. tee hee)

BUT.....(I think that is the BUT in reBUTTAL) This young man when asked by the judge, said he was giving the finger to Mr. Ashton and when asked what that meant to him, he said that it meant the "F" word.

Now his "Butt" will be in jail because as I have told my kids a million times...there is a time and place for everything....and flipping the bird when the cameras are on you at a nationally televised trial is as they say these days... " a poor choice".

[collie1228]

You guys have piqued my curiosity - who is Matthew? I thought the defendant was Casey Anthony. All of a sudden everyone is talking about Matthew giving someone the finger. Sorry if I'm out of touch. I'm one of those poor souls out there in the real world, working 50 hour weeks dreaming about retirement and living in TV. The only information I have ever seen on this trial is from all these interesting postings on TOTV. So please tell me, who in the heck is Matthew?

[EdV]

He was just a spectator who had gained entrance to courtroom for the day and now has had his fifteen minutes of fame by flipping the bird which was caught on the courtroom video. He is now spending the next week in jail and has had a cashectomy performed on his wallet to the tune of $600 by Judge Perry.

[collie1228]

Wow, that's pretty unusual. I've never heard of a spectator being cited in a trial (except maybe on a TV show). My guess is that it probably a welcome break from all the gloom and doom in such a sad murder trial.

[rubicon]

It is my understanding that the state of florida is footing the bill for Casey Anthony's trial..."If you can't afford a lawyer, a lawyer will be appointed to you............Cheney may be pro bono?

I wish Judge Perry was the judge in the Lindsey Lohan debacle...Talk about a defiant disrespectful person.

There will be a very quick verdict in this case. Casey will not get the death penalty but she will not walk from this

[Freeda]

The behavior of spectators can influence jurors, and Judge Perry explained in Matthew's contempt hearing that it could theoretically result in a mistrial after huge expendure of time and money to try the case, requiring a retrial; and so Judge Perry, as is within his authority, had courtroom decorum rules posted at the entrance to the courtroom, which all people were required to read, and which Matthew said he had read, ordering them to refrain from any gestures, verbal outbursts, facial expressions, etc. So Matthews was charged with, and convicted of, contempt of court; but he was allowed to ask for an appeal and was given defense by the public attorney's office, since he is of low income, according to his testimony. It was pretty dramatic seeing this young man being handcuffed as he stood before the Judge, and taken into custody by the sheriff.

I think that part of this seemingly strong sentence on the part of the Judge (who knows, maybe he will reduce it, later on) may have also been to make an example, warning other spectators to not even think about making a similar mistake that could damage the case during the final rebuttal evidence, or especially during closing statements, when emotions predictably will be running high.

That's why it's nice that we can watch in our living rooms, making all of the gestures, expressions, and verbal outbursts we care to!

[ceejay]

That's why it's nice that we can watch in our living rooms, making all of the gestures, expressions, and verbal outbursts we care to!

I have never, ever spoken to or yelled :censored: at my poor television as I have for these past three weeks.

I find myself just staring at Casey, waiting for some reaction while the testimony is going on. She is just so darn cold-hearted; of course, until it came to the grief counselor (?-oy vey) talking about her. :cryin2:

[rubicon]

I don't make gesture or emote or yell at my television. I listen, analyze, anticipate draw inferences from questions asked and best determine in my mind the likely outcome of this trial. This is a facinating exercise in a debate of facts and laws and whether the Sate or the defense has the better acumen. At this juncture I believe the jury will act quickly and render a verdict of guilty but not for a capital offense but something less.

The siller side of me is wondering who in Hollywood producers are not casting for the various roles for what they will advertise as an epic trial of the century

So who are your picks for Casey, her parents Judge Perry, etc?

I mean do you think Baez is being paid all that much by the State to defend Casey? I suspect he made a claim for all media rights concerning this case. Will it stand????

[HeyGirly]

I have never, ever spoken to or yelled :censored: at my poor television as I have for these past three weeks.

I find myself just staring at Casey, waiting for some reaction while the testimony is going on. She is just so darn cold-hearted; of course, until it came to the grief counselor (?-oy vey) talking about her. :cryin2:

Either you've been in my house and I didn't see you, or I might be your long-lost twin!!

KC's "fake" crying has reached epic proportions (ok, a couple of times it's been real but inappropriate)--and she's come close to falling asleep many times. if I were on trial for my life, I kinda think I'd be paying attention to every word. Just sayin'...

[CaliforniaGirl]

So who are your picks for Casey, her parents Judge Perry, etc.

Casey = Lindsay Lohan
Judge Perry = Forest Whitaker
Jose Baez = Casting call for "Enormous Ego"
Jeff Ashton = David James Elliot (JAG fan, here)

[Barefoot]

Of course we all knew that Casey Anthony did the chloroform searches on the computer, and not Cindy. However with her mother lying to protect her, it created reasonable doubt. Now we have testimoney by Cindy's employer to prove that Cindy was lying about being off work and doing the chloroform searches. I see this as a huge plus for the State.

[dillywho]

Of course we all knew that Casey Anthony did the chloroform searches on the computer, and not Cindy. However with her mother lying to protect her, it created reasonable doubt. Now we have testimoney by Cindy's employer to prove that Cindy was lying about being off work and doing the chloroform searches. I see this as a huge plus for the State.

Good point, but it could also help the defense to see why Casey has always been such a good liar. She apparently learned her lessons well. She had some great teachers...the whole family. It would be interesting to know where Cindy, especially, learned her penchant for lying. Passed down from generation to generation, perhaps?:read:

[PennBF]

Assumptions:
(A) Casey is a sociopath
(B) Casey is a huge liar
(C) Casey is a typical "Party Girl"
Now..
1. Where was the child killed
2. How was the child killed
3. Who is proven to be the killer
4. What killed the child.
None were answered in the trial!!!

Question: Do you convict her for being A-C or do you not convict her
because you lack 1-4?

As a retired "Good Ole Boy" attorney once said to me .."The law is lousy".

I would call it a mis trial and wait until the State had good proof. I heard
one person at the Defense table say quietly, "It is a travesty of justice"
I could not say it better. :(

[graciegirl]

Assumptions:
(A) Casey is a sociopath
(B) Casey is a huge liar
(C) Casey is a typical "Party Girl"
Now..
1. Where was the child killed
2. How was the child killed
3. Who is proven to be the killer
4. What killed the child.
None were answered in the trial!!!

Question: Do you convict her for being A-C or do you not convict her
because you lack 1-4?

As a retired "Good Ole Boy" attorney once said to me .."The law is lousy".

I would call it a mis trial and wait until the State had good proof. I heard
one person at the Defense table say quietly, "It is a travesty of justice"
I could not say it better. :(

I have to think Penn, that you missed quite a bit of the trial. It is clear to me she is guilty.

[jebartle]

I have to think Penn, that you missed quite a bit of the trial. It is clear to me she is guilty.

They didn't have any trouble convicting Scott Peterson with a LOT LESS circumstantial evidence...

[PennBF]

Graciegirl..I was careful not to say she is innocent as I happen to believe she is guilty of something from direct to accident.
The concern is that my belief or opinion is not important. What is important is if the state proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. They never proved or identified method of death, cause of death, where it may have happened, who else if anyone was involved, and many so ons.
Contrary, I actually watched everyday from beginning to end. If I could not watch it at the specific time, I recorded every day on the DVR and watched any part that I may have missed. In fact I recorded 2 channels just in case one shut off part of the testimony.
I believe that the Judge, who is a "State Employee" was the 4th attorney for the state and did not allow the defense to put on a fair case. An example of what I am saying is that he was more interested in (a) a speedy trial and (b) the budget rather then being concerned that a life is at risk and whether you believe in her or not she deserves a fair trial. In addition he continued to
threaten the Defense attorney's which I am sure made them much more cautious in their defense. Even today he said to Beaz something to the effect that he better be sure on a discovery point but he never said anything like this to the state attorneys. Terrible...
If we ignore the rights to a fair trial for one then we are giving up a fundemental right provided in the Constitution and when you give up one freedom you can rest assured more will follow.
I watched Geraldo today on TV and he stated everything I believed in and my points above. He went beyond my position and agreed the judge was unfair to the defense and a few exhibits admitted will most likely support a
mistrial. :read:

[Pturner]

Good point, but it could also help the defense to see why Casey has always been such a good liar. She apparently learned her lessons well. She had some great teachers...the whole family. It would be interesting to know where Cindy, especially, learned her penchant for lying. Passed down from generation to generation, perhaps?:read:

Except that how she got to be such a good liar is not relevant to whether she killed her child.

I have intentionally not watched any of the trial, not wanting to be drawn deeply into something so sordid. I've read some in depth news summaries. I doubt she will get the death penalty. Although the chloroform searches are evidence of premeditation, it is possible that Casey meant to silence and not kill her child with chloroform.

From the evidence I have read, I personally do not have any reasonable doubt that Casey killed her poor, sweet little girl. It breaks my heart.

Some posters have mentioned that it only takes one hold-out on the jury. That works both ways. Given the evidence presented, it seems more likely to me that one or more jurors would be unwilling to render her not guilty on all charges than it does that one or more jurors will be unable to find her guilty on at least one charge related to Calyee's death, even if it's just aggravated child abuse based on the chloroform evidence.

Surely she will be found guilty of at least one and probably all four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.

As for a quick verdict, that seems improbably-- although bizarre seems to define this case. Each of seven counts needs to be deliberated. For a quick verdict, there would need to be quick unanimity on all seven, including first-degree murder vs aggravated manslaughter of a child.

Who will play Casey? I'd cast Jody Foster. She plays complex roles. I could see Meryl Streep as the mother. It's sad that this will be a blockbuster film. But as Don Henley sang, "It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry."

[Freeda]

There are cases where a body is never found, at all; and so there is no evidence at all of the details of exactly how, when, or where the murder took place; and yet premeditated murder of the missing/never found person is found by a jury (and upheld by the courts), based on strong circumstantial evidence, as exists in this case; and based on the reasonable inferences that can be drawn from it. If the exact details of a murder had to always be proven in order to convict, then a murderer could always get away with it (and unfortunately as we know, sometimes they do), as long as they are good enough at hiding the precise details of the event, and at hiding the body. Think about how scary the world would be if that was the law!

As a sort of analogy, if someone gave another person their valuable gemstone (and there were witnesses, a written signed receipt, etc., to prove that) for safekeeping for the owner; and the person to whom the gem was given to hold it failed, when requested by the owner, to ever return it, and just kept silent and never provided any explanation for its whereabouts, a jury would most certainly be able convict the person for theft, beyond a reasonable doubt; based on the logical inferences from the known material facts. The holder of the gemstone could not just take the position that 'the prosecution must prove that I still have it, and that I didn't lose it, must prove where I have hidden it, and must prove that someone didn't steal it from me; unless they do, I cannot be found guilty of theft for not returning the gemstone'.

[dillywho]

PennBF, I watched it everyday, too. I watched from jury selection on.

Like you, I feel there is enough evidence to convict her on some of the charges, but not any warranting the death penalty. I have from the beginning, if nothing more than for lying. I still have some serious questions, some of which Mr. Mason pointed out in asking for an acquittal to the first 3 charges. For the life of me, I cannot understand why they are allowing the photoshop presentation of the duct tape, decomp progression, along with Casey in the picture (there were plenty of Caylee by herself). To me, that is as inflammatory as it gets.

I have trouble with the chloroform issue as well. If she did these searches in March for this purpose, why wait 3 months to kill her? She did plenty of partying, often taking her along, in those months from March to June. Remember, Cindy was most often the sitter then. They made such a big deal of the chloroform (and still are), yet many of the experts when cornered couldn't determine how much. None (container, etc.) was ever found in the car or house, nor was any evidence that it had been bought, made, or actually used....only theories. If she obtained, made, or used it at another location then she would not have acted alone. Only her car and home were searched. Mmmmmmmmm

Since nothing ever truly goes away on a computer, the chloroform ads relating to dating were never mentioned again, even after the defense posed the question as to the possibility of that being the reason for the searches. It would certainly fit just out of curosity since she was heavy into the "dating" scene. Why else would someone send it to her?

Why were defense witnesses allowed to be cut off and told to stick to yes or no answers, not allowed to question the prosecutors back, or make comments, yet George never gave a straight answer and was continually allowed to narrate on and on, throwing barbs and questions along the way when being questioned by the defense?

I heard (didn't see it) that George made a gesture of wiping his hands toward Casey the last time he left the stand. Why was he not tossed? When the ruling was made that they would be allowed to be present for all testimony, Judge Perry told them that they would be subject to the same order as to facial expressions, gestures, etc. as anyone else. From the looks of George and Cindy in court today when the camera focused on them, Cindy apparently believed the mistress from yesterday. She could barely sit next to him and they kept their backs to each other. Even some in the media noticed their demeanor and commented on how they were "different" today.

I found the mistress's testimony credible. Why would she lie now? Unless she's as good or better liar than Casey, her explanation of her two names coming from her childhood made sense. As for her being in another relationship at the time she was seeing George, he was too. Same difference. She said that George was at her place about 12 times, not the once or twice he claimed. She even managed to tell them that they could check the records at the complex where she lives to be sure how many times since it is a truly gated community before the judge sustained the objection about narrating. To give credit where due, Judge Perry did allow her to read the part of her deposition related to her testimony and not just the part Ashton wanted her to read that was not the same in his effort to discredit her.

Those are just for starters. I still question Dr. G's ruling since the skull was definitely moved and not buried in the mud. She testified she ruled homicide based on just the opposite. Kronk testified that he moved it and said picked it up on some of the initial statements to the police. He was asked specifically if it was buried and he said that it was just laying there on top of the ground. Hopefully, the defense plans to point this out in their closing.

Along the lines of questioning, I have another question. Why are witnesses sworn in to "tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" if they are not going to be allowed to do so except when it serves the purpose of one side only.

Sorry for the long post. I just get wound up. Now I have a better understanding of why Boomer always chided herself for posting at late hours.:22yikes:

[CMANN]

Assumptions:
(A) Casey is a sociopath
(B) Casey is a huge liar
(C) Casey is a typical "Party Girl"
Now..
1. Where was the child killed
2. How was the child killed
3. Who is proven to be the killer
4. What killed the child.
None were answered in the trial!!!

Question: Do you convict her for being A-C or do you not convict her
because you lack 1-4?

As a retired "Good Ole Boy" attorney once said to me .."The law is lousy".

I would call it a mis trial and wait until the State had good proof. I heard
one person at the Defense table say quietly, "It is a travesty of justice"
I could not say it better. :(

I would have to agree with you. Let me add a couple of my own.

Did the judge gave nearly every decision to the benefit of the prosecution?

Did the prosecution over charge in this case?

Was the judge so concerned about the budgetary expenses of a new trial that may have influenced his decisions?

Was the defense attorney experienced and competent enough to be handling the trial?

Did the defendant in a fair trial?

Does anybody care?

[CMANN]

Has anybody run a search on the Internet for chlorophyll? Spelled several ways such as cholo, cholora, choloro, colo,

you get some interesting results

[dillywho]

There are cases where a body is never found, at all; and so there is no evidence at all of the details of exactly how, when, or where the murder took place; and yet premeditated murder of the missing/never found person is found by a jury (and upheld by the courts), based on strong circumstantial evidence, as exists in this case; and based on the reasonable inferences that can be drawn from it. If the exact details of a murder had to always be proven in order to convict, then a murderer could always get away with it (and unfortunately as we know, sometimes they do), as long as they are good enough at hiding the precise details of the event, and at hiding the body. Think about how scary the world would be if that was the law!

As a sort of analogy, if someone gave another person their valuable gemstone (and there were witnesses, a written signed receipt, etc., to prove that) for safekeeping for the owner; and the person to whom the gem was given to hold it failed, when requested by the owner, to ever return it, and just kept silent and never provided any explanation for its whereabouts, a jury would most certainly be able convict the person for theft, beyond a reasonable doubt; based on the logical inferences from the known material facts. The holder of the gemstone could not just take the position that 'the prosecution must prove that I still have it, and that I didn't lose it, must prove where I have hidden it, and must prove that someone didn't steal it from me; unless they do, I cannot be found guilty of theft for not returning the gemstone'.

You just never know what a jury will do. I may have told about this already, but I served on a murder trial where the guy actually confessed in open court and we ended up in a hung jury because of 2 holdouts for self-defense, not murder or manslaughter. The guy that was shot was 1) unarmed, 2) in the doorway of his home with one hand on the doorframe and the other on the storm door holding it open and yelling at the guy leaving, 3) the shooter was all the way out to his car. He testified to all this and then said, "He called me a ***** *****, I reached into my glove box, got my gun and shot him." All he had to do was get in and leave.

Go figure.

[dillywho]

I would have to agree with you. Let me add a couple of my own.

Did the judge gave nearly every decision to the benefit of the prosecution?

Did the prosecution over charge in this case?

Was the judge so concerned about the budgetary expenses of a new trial that may have influenced his decisions?

Was the defense attorney experienced and competent enough to be handling the trial?

Did the defendant in a fair trial?

Does anybody care?

Right on all counts. And I do care. Our justice system is supposed to be designed to be fair. It's not supposed to be about money and elections. Something is getting lost in the translation.

With all the concern about budgetary problems, inability/difficulty to seat a jury, many doors (despite Judge Perry's efforts) open to grounds for mistrial/appeal, I don't see JP invoking the death penalty should she be found guilty of a death penalty charge and the jury making its recommendation for death. It is only a recommendation, not the sentence. The actual sentence is Judge Perry's call. If he does go with that recommendation, it will be an automatic appeal. Even if that appeal is denied (don't know if that one can be), then they can appeal, and appeal, and appeal for years and that ain't cheap.

[dillywho]

Except that how she got to be such a good liar is not relevant to whether she killed her child.

I have intentionally not watched any of the trial, not wanting to be drawn deeply into something so sordid. I've read some in depth news summaries. I doubt she will get the death penalty. Although the chloroform searches are evidence of premeditation, it is possible that Casey meant to silence and not kill her child with chloroform.

From the evidence I have read, I personally do not have any reasonable doubt that Casey killed her poor, sweet little girl. It breaks my heart.

Some posters have mentioned that it only takes one hold-out on the jury. That works both ways. Given the evidence presented, it seems more likely to me that one or more jurors would be unwilling to render her not guilty on all charges than it does that one or more jurors will be unable to find her guilty on at least one charge related to Calyee's death, even if it's just aggravated child abuse based on the chloroform evidence.

Surely she will be found guilty of at least one and probably all four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.

As for a quick verdict, that seems improbably-- although bizarre seems to define this case. Each of seven counts needs to be deliberated. For a quick verdict, there would need to be quick unanimity on all seven, including first-degree murder vs aggravated manslaughter of a child.

Who will play Casey? I'd cast Jody Foster. She plays complex roles. I could see Meryl Streep as the mother. It's sad that this will be a blockbuster film. But as Don Henley sang, "It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry."

You're right. Lying has nothing to do with the killing, accident, or whatever it was. The fact that she lies about everything and has been for years, long before she ever had a child, goes to all kinds of speculation of why she lies.

Based on the evidence presented, I don't see any reason for her not to be convicted on those charges. The others? I think it's really just a wait and see. Like I said before, you just never know what a jury will do....never.

[Freeda]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why they are allowing the photoshop presentation of the duct tape, decomp progression, along with Casey in the picture (there were plenty of Caylee by herself). To me, that is as inflammatory as it gets.

I agree; to me that was one of the most likely unduly prejudicial pieces of evidence that may lead to a successful appeal of a guilty verdict; I can't understand why in the world the prosecution offered it nor why the judge allowed it; particularly with Casey's smiling face left in the photo.

At this point I have no idea what the jury will do; although I really can't imagine an acquittal. I think that if the jury recommends a death penalty, the Judge will give that sentence. However, I think, and actually I hope, that the jury won't recommend a death penalty, if for no other reason than to spare her parents and brother any more tragedy. If anything, I think the jury will sympathize with Cindy feeling enough desparation to have pretty blatantly lied under oath in order to try to save her daughter's life, and will think that, whatever else they may think of Casey, her mother found enough in Casey to love (despite whatever Cindy thinks that Casey may have done to Cindy's own grandchild) to risk emprisonment herself in order to try to spare her daughter from the risk of the death penalty. (Something that I think I would do, too, without any hesitation, if I thought it would help, for any of my children if they were in the same predicament that Casey appears to be in; and I think most parents if push came to shove would do the same; blessedly, we are unlikely to ever know).

[graciegirl]

I agree; to me that was one of the most likely unduly prejudicial pieces of evidence that may lead to a successful appeal of a guilty verdict; I can't understand why in the world the prosecution offered it nor why the judge allowed it; particularly with Casey's smiling face left in the photo.

At this point I have no idea what the jury will do; although I really can't imagine an acquittal. I think that if the jury recommends a death penalty, the Judge will give that sentence. However, I think, and actually I hope, that the jury won't recommend a death penalty, if for no other reason than to spare her parents and brother any more tragedy. If anything, I think the jury will sympathize with Cindy feeling enough desparation to have pretty blatantly lied under oath in order to try to save her daughter's life, and will think that, whatever else they may think of Casey, her mother found enough in Casey to love (despite whatever Cindy thinks that Casey may have done to Cindy's own grandchild) to risk emprisonment herself in order to try to spare her daughter from the risk of the death penalty. (Something that I think I would do, too, without any hesitation, if I thought it would help, for any of my children if they were in the same predicament that Casey appears to be in; and I think most parents if push came to shove would do the same; blessedly, we are unlikely to ever know).

I agree, Freeda.

[graciegirl]

Did anyone see the story on 20/20 last night? It is a story of a mother some thirty years ago who shot her three children? Two survived and one testified at the trial that her mother shot them.

She too was very attractive, lied about it, showed inappropriate behavior just after the deaths and was diagnosed with narcissistic behavior and sociopathy. And she too was single and the children were getting in her way of having a good time. She was convicted and is still incarcerated.

She was pregnant at the time and that daughter was adopted. That child was raised by loving parents but became very wild and had two children, the second she adopted out. She (the daughter born after she was arrested) apparently is leveling out now and attending college to become an obstetrician.

[Barefoot]

I just read this on a website, supposedly true, but who could ever trust a jailhouse inmate. :confused:

"Not long after remains of 2-year-old Caylee were found in December 2008, Anthony told fellow inmate Robyn Adams that investigators found the bones in a black garbage bag with a baby blanket. That last detail — the baby blanket — wasn't public knowledge at the time."


Continue reading at NowPublic.com: Casey Anthony Latest News: Full Casey Anthony Jail Letters | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic.com/world/casey-anthony-latest-news-full-casey-anthony-jail-letters-2602282.html#ixzz1QxBf9PJc

[CaliforniaGirl]

Assumptions:
(A) Casey is a sociopath
(B) Casey is a huge liar
(C) Casey is a typical "Party Girl"
Now..
1. Where was the child killed
2. How was the child killed
3. Who is proven to be the killer
4. What killed the child.
None were answered in the trial!!!

Question: Do you convict her for being A-C or do you not convict her
because you lack 1-4? :(

A-C are all fairly obvious to anyone who has watched any part of this trial and should certainly be obvious to the jury. Not cause for conviction, however.

As for 1-4:
1. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.
2. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.
4. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.

3. If Baez had not been such a blabbermouth in his opening statement, they could have possibly argued in closing that the State had not adequately associated Casey with the dead body. However, Baez said the child drowned, numerous witnesses testified to the smell of decomposition in the trunk of her car...and she was the one driving the car. That (to me) associates Casey with the dead body. Dead body found with laundry bag and other articles from the home pretty much rules out outsiders being involved. Dead body found in swampy woods rules out suicide. Dead body in the swampy woods = homicide. Homicide = death at the hands of another or as the result of actions of another, whether accident, manslaughter or murder.

IMHO, if the child had accidentally drowned, Casey would have called 911. The wrath of Cindy could in no way compare to years in prison (3 already so far!) and the possibility of life in prison or being put to death. On the other hand, if she ACCIDENTALLY overdosed the child with chloroform, how does she explain that to anyone without admitting to responsibility for her death? She doesn't - therefore, she makes up convoluted lies and manages to hide the body so well that it would (hopefully) be so decomposed when/if found that no cause of death could be proven.

Did the state prove premeditated murder? It certainly planted the seeds but did not prove it. Did the state prove aggravated child abuse? Nope - that requires "multiple instances", and even the State's witnesses testified that she was a good mother. In my mind, that lets out premeditated murder and felony murder (also does away with death penalty.) If I were on the jury I would find her guilty of voluntary manslaughter, and would pray the judge impose the maximum sentence simply because she threw the child away like trash.

PennBF, you also referenced Geraldo Rivera in another post. Whenever he appears, I just laugh...if he weren't married I would swear he has the hots for Jose Baez. Baez could show up in court in a pink tutu and Geraldo would go on air and announce what a brilliant legal move that was. Perhaps a bit of Latino bias, maybe? Having watched this trial in its entirety, switching between 4 different channels, almost every pundit EXCEPT for Geraldo agrees that Baez pretty much convicted Casey with his opening statement. And if it weren't for his ego, he would have been 2nd chair and let Cheney Mason be 1st chair, and it would have been an entirely different trial altogether. Baez was so out-lawyered it was often laughable.

[Barefoot]

A-C are all fairly obvious to anyone who has watched any part of this trial and should certainly be obvious to the jury. Not cause for conviction, however.

As for 1-4:
1. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.
2. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.
4. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.

3. If Baez had not been such a blabbermouth in his opening statement, they could have possibly argued in closing that the State had not adequately associated Casey with the dead body. However, Baez said the child drowned, numerous witnesses testified to the smell of decomposition in the trunk of her car...and she was the one driving the car. That (to me) associates Casey with the dead body. Dead body found with laundry bag and other articles from the home pretty much rules out outsiders being involved. Dead body found in swampy woods rules out suicide. Dead body in the swampy woods = homicide. Homicide = death at the hands of another or as the result of actions of another, whether accident, manslaughter or murder.

IMHO, if the child had accidentally drowned, Casey would have called 911. The wrath of Cindy could in no way compare to years in prison (3 already so far!) and the possibility of life in prison or being put to death. On the other hand, if she ACCIDENTALLY overdosed the child with chloroform, how does she explain that to anyone without admitting to responsibility for her death? She doesn't - therefore, she makes up convoluted lies and manages to hide the body so well that it would (hopefully) be so decomposed when/if found that no cause of death could be proven.

Did the state prove premeditated murder? It certainly planted the seeds but did not prove it. Did the state prove aggravated child abuse? Nope - that requires "multiple instances", and even the State's witnesses testified that she was a good mother. In my mind, that lets out premeditated murder and felony murder (also does away with death penalty.) If I were on the jury I would find her guilty of voluntary manslaughter, and would pray the judge impose the maximum sentence simply because she threw the child away like trash.

PennBF, you also referenced Geraldo Rivera in another post. Whenever he appears, I just laugh...if he weren't married I would swear he has the hots for Jose Baez. Baez could show up in court in a pink tutu and Geraldo would go on air and announce what a brilliant legal move that was. Perhaps a bit of Latino bias, maybe? Having watched this trial in its entirety, switching between 4 different channels, almost every pundit EXCEPT for Geraldo agrees that Baez pretty much convicted Casey with his opening statement. And if it weren't for his ego, he would have been 2nd chair and let Cheney Mason be 1st chair, and it would have been an entirely different trial altogether. Baez was so out-lawyered it was often laughable.


C-Girl ... you are right on!

[ceejay]

C-Girl ... you are right on!

:agree:

[PennBF]

There is little question by anyone that Judge Perry was a supporter of the State. That he restricted the ability of Baez to defend his client and provided a different attitude towards the Defense vs State.
Having said all of this the only way for Baez to work around such terrible Judicial bais was to ask questions he knew would be sustained but served
the answers to the Jury and to the witness who knew what the response should be to avoid a challenge. I am not saying Baez is an F.Lee Bailey but if that was his purpose I congrat him on using that as a tactic in order to try to neutralize the bais court. Remember there are at least 3-4 reasons for an attorney to object to a question, (a) it is a true objection, (b) the attorney wants the witness to take his time and really think the answer out, (c) to destroy the rhythm between the attorney and witness, (d) to set up a confrontation with the examining attorney, etc. The state used these as an extremely fine practice and given the bais of the court they could easily get away with (c) and (d). These were taken away from Baez by the court.
Before anyone wants to "hang"' Baez they should really understand the constraints he was under and how he had to be pretty creative to get around the Judge and State. In particular the Judge. :read:

[CaliforniaGirl]

There is little question by anyone that Judge Perry was a supporter of the State. That he restricted the ability of Baez to defend his client ...

To each his own, PennBF.

Personally, I think the only thing that restricted Baez' ability to defend his client was his own incompetence. He does not know how to get information out of a witness without asking leading questions (he skipped that part of law school, maybe) and when his leading questions are rightly objected to, he gets flustered and asks the same questions 3 more times but always leading - with the end result being that the information he's trying to get in doesn't get in. He simply doesn't know how to do it - you can't fault the state or the Judge for that. And since it is his job, he should know how to do it or stay out of a courtroom until he does.

There were several occasions when I knew what he was trying to get a witness to say, but couldn't get it in...it was almost painful to watch. And instead of asking Mason how to do it correctly, he would just give up. So that information never got to the jury. He had very competent, very skilled co-counsel that he under-utilized.

I believe Judge Perry has been completely fair concerning sustaining or overrulling objections, following the law. Hearsay is hearsay, leading is leading...you just can't argue with that.

Baez was like David fighting Goliath with a slingshot...except that he had a cannon sitting next to him he could have used and didn't! There is no excuse for that hubris. As much as I dislike Casey Anthony, even she deserved better representation than she got.

[graciegirl]

To each his own, PennBF.



Personally, I think the only thing that restricted Baez' ability to defend his client was his own incompetence. He does not know how to get information out of a witness without asking leading questions (he skipped that part of law school, maybe) and when his leading questions are rightly objected to, he gets flustered and asks the same questions 3 more times but always leading - with the end result being that the information he's trying to get in doesn't get in. He simply doesn't know how to do it - you can't fault the state or the Judge for that. And since it is his job, he should know how to do it or stay out of a courtroom until he does.

There were several occasions when I knew what he was trying to get a witness to say, but couldn't get it in...it was almost painful to watch. And instead of asking Mason how to do it correctly, he would just give up. So that information never got to the jury. He had very competent, very skilled co-counsel that he under-utilized.

I believe Judge Perry has been completely fair concerning sustaining or overrulling objections, following the law. Hearsay is hearsay, leading is leading...you just can't argue with that.

Baez was like David fighting Goliath with a slingshot...except that he had a cannon sitting next to him he could have used and didn't! There is no excuse for that hubris. As much as I dislike Casey Anthony, even she deserved better representation than she got.

I agree with you once again California Girl!!

I think......Baez just isn't as smart and certainly was not as well prepared as the two prosecution attorneys. They sure did their job well. Their preparation was done as well as it could be done IMHO. Their research was deep and they knew the subject(s) about as well as their expert witnesses. They never got blind sided or surprised by their direct questioning, as Baez frequently did.

I didn't see any injustice by Judge Perry. I really respected his fairness. And I liked the fact that he didn't mess with someone acting up in his court room and he called Baez for sloppy planning and not being ready a few times. Baez SHOULD have been ready.

Just sayin......

[HeyGirly]

I agree with you once again California Girl!!

I think......Baez just isn't as smart and certainly was not as well prepared as the two prosecution attorneys. They sure did their job well. Their preparation was done as well as it could be done IMHO. Their research was deep and they knew the subject(s) about as well as their expert witnesses. They never got blind sided or surprised by their direct questioning, as Baez frequently did.

I didn't see any injustice by Judge Perry. I really respected his fairness. And I liked the fact that he didn't mess with someone acting up in his court room and he called Baez for sloppy planning and not being ready a few times. Baez SHOULD have been ready.

Just sayin......

:agree: Also agree with C-Girl, CeeJay and Pturner's postings earlier today. Other posters feel the judge was biased against the defense, but I sawl the judge rule fairly--the defense did a lot of posturing but seemed unprepared (they had 3 yrs. to get ready, just as the state did), called witnesses whose testimony backfired on them, and at times, Baez's demeanor to the court and witnesses bordered on unprofessional. (I'm being as kind as possible.)

IMHO, the death penalty won't be the jury's decision. (I think I'd need DNA, a fingerprint, just one thing that was incontrovertible to vote for that.) But a sentence of life in prison (or at least decades) would be a terrible thing for KC--she would no longer be a media sensation. I believe she sedated that poor baby more than once, and had reached a point where that child was in her way.

Such a tragic circumstance for that whole family. We are none of us perfect, but no one should have to live with heartache like this--and KC, in my opinion, is responsible that that. Just sayin'...

[dillywho]

Before I say my piece (again), I would like to commend every poster on this thread for keeping this truly a respectable debate. Obviously, we all have differing opinions over a very broad range. Thank you all.

Now, whether or not Judge Perry is biased or Baez is incompetent is totally a perception. There have been times I felt JP was biased (as in allowing the computer generated image of the duct tape, but not the picture of an obviously pregnant Casey), sometimes not. Why was Ashton not chastised for his apparent transgression since they are off today as requested? Apparently, if JP read the report as he said he would, he found it as Baez said in his request for sanction. He did pretty much threaten Baez if his "problem" turned out to be imaginary.

Baez comes across as not really knowing what he's doing or is supposed to do. That, in and of itself, could be intentional...remains to be seen. There were many times when he seemed to be struggling and not able to get in the question and he was granted permission to consult with Cheney Mason. I don't know, of course, what Mason told him but he would either just drop it and move on to something else or try again and still have the same problems.

Jeff Ashton came across totally as the school bully. He may be smart but that is easily overshadowed by his arrogant, rude, sometimes whiney personality and style. Wrong as he (Matthew) was, it is not surprising that he was the one extended the "gesture of affection" (as JP called it). And, what was with all his gesturing and face making? The prosecution would have been much better served with Linda Burdick. She got her point across without all the fanfare and sarcasm....just all business.

The important thing to remember is that most, if not all, jurors are not well versed in the law and can only rely on very few things. The most important things are perception, common sense, and their ability to reason things out. I would venture to say that perception ranks pretty close to the top, if not the very top.

I agree that it seems Cheney Mason would have been better as the lead attorney, but remember that he also joined the team late. I don't know what the rule is regarding lead or even if there is one. I personally like Ms. Finnell over either Mason or Baez.

I do not understand the defense's opening statement and then no presentation of corroberation (sp?). I do think some of it could well be true, but certainly is not a basis for killing anyone (other than maybe the abuser). That usually doesn't happen, either. In fact, they often cover for them. The abuse was also alluded to in the jailhouse letters but could also be more fabrications. Robyn Adams was never called due to credibility issues. My only doubt that some contend that abuse didn't happen was when Casey got so upset with some of her mother's testimony. Apparently, one of the lip readers picked up on her blurting to one of her attorneys that she (Cindy) was protecting George and went on to say, "She never protected me". Did she try to tell Cindy at some point that abuse was going on and her mother refused to accept it? If so, it could be that she was so known to be a liar that Cindy just blew it off as another one.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Did anyone see the story on 20/20 last night? It is a story of a mother some thirty years ago who shot her three children? Two survived and one testified at the trial that her mother shot them.

She too was very attractive, lied about it, showed inappropriate behavior just after the deaths and was diagnosed with narcissistic behavior and sociopathy. And she too was single and the children were getting in her way of having a good time. She was convicted and is still incarcerated.

She was pregnant at the time and that daughter was adopted. That child was raised by loving parents but became very wild and had two children, the second she adopted out. She (the daughter born after she was arrested) apparently is leveling out now and attending college to become an obstetrician.

Gracie, I did not see 20/20, but that sounds like the story of Diane Downs. Ann Rule wrote a book about the case called Small Sacrifices, and it was made into a TV movie starring Farrah Fawcett. Both are excellent in telling a very chilling story.

It's a shame that infertility isn't a side effect of narcissism, sociopathy and psycopathy.

[jebartle]

.

It's a shame that infertility isn't a side effect of narcissism, sociopathy and psycopathy.


Everytime I see a little toddler now, I think of that sweet little Caylee!

[PennBF]

Dillywho, I agree with many of your points. Regarding Ashton his presentations may have gone over well if he was just dealing with the Judge. It has been the experience that Juries do not like this type of person and tend to give the benefit to the defense. Your right on perceptions and the impact on decisions. It is probable that within the first 5 days a half of the trial jurors had already decided on their vote. I would vote that it is either going to be a hung jury or a verdict that is much less than 1st degree murder? If she is convicted of 1st degress then I would vote that of course there will be an appeal, in fact when there is a 1st degree verdict it is automatically appealed. I would bet the farm the appeal will be won by the defense and it will be a mistrial. There are numerous errors that would cause a mistrial...:mornincoffee::cryin2:

[dillywho]

Dillywho, I agree with many of your points. Regarding Ashton his presentations may have gone over well if he was just dealing with the Judge. It has been the experience that Juries do not like this type of person and tend to give the benefit to the defense. Your right on perceptions and the impact on decisions. It is probable that within the first 5 days a half of the trial jurors had already decided on their vote. I would vote that it is either going to be a hung jury or a verdict that is much less than 1st degree murder? If she is convicted of 1st degress then I would vote that of course there will be an appeal, in fact when there is a 1st degree verdict it is automatically appealed. I would bet the farm the appeal will be won by the defense and it will be a mistrial. There are numerous errors that would cause a mistrial...:mornincoffee::cryin2:

The reasons you cite here are exactly why I think JP will not go along with the death penalty if she is convicted of the dp charges and it is the jury's recommendation. The last thing he wants is a mistrial or reversal and there are many errors that could do it, as you pointed out. The appeals panel (or whatever they are) would definitely err themselves on the side of caution, especially in today's times and all the overturned decisions. JP would much rather see a mistrial based on trial error than a reversal at some later date.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Dillywho, I agree with many of your points. Regarding Ashton his presentations may have gone over well if he was just dealing with the Judge. It has been the experience that Juries do not like this type of person and tend to give the benefit to the defense. Your right on perceptions and the impact on decisions. It is probable that within the first 5 days a half of the trial jurors had already decided on their vote. I would vote that it is either going to be a hung jury or a verdict that is much less than 1st degree murder? If she is convicted of 1st degress then I would vote that of course there will be an appeal, in fact when there is a 1st degree verdict it is automatically appealed. I would bet the farm the appeal will be won by the defense and it will be a mistrial. There are numerous errors that would cause a mistrial...:mornincoffee::cryin2:

Don't go betting the farm, PennBF :(. She is certainly not worth it.

My premonition on how this will play out:
Count 1 - First Degree Murder: Not Guilty
Count 2 - Aggravated Child Abuse: Not Guilty
Count 3 - Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child: Guilty
Count 4 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, admitted by Baez
Count 5 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, admitted by Baez
Count 6 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, not contested by Baez
Count 7 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, not contested by Baez

The above could get her a maximum sentence of 34 years. My guess is she'll get 20 years and be out in 10. She will get out of prison a 30-something convicted felon. Her partying crowd will have matured and be raising families of their own... She will be stuck in menial jobs, having no real marketable skills apart from professional con artist, which she would be wise to ignore.

Her Bella Vita won't be so Bella. As much as I'd like to see her get a needle in the arm, I can live with that.

[rubicon]

Attorneys argue the law when it is on thir side and the facts when they favor their case. A good attroney can make a nothing fact a big issue. Baez tried that on several occassions. some folks have been hard on Judge Perry but I think he became very frustrated with Baez's not incompetenence but inexperience.

I have always taken court cases down to simple but relevant facts.

Who was the last person to see Caylee alive?

Who neglected to report Caylee missing for 31 dyas?

Who spent that 31 days not looking for her but partying, etc?

Who lied continually to Cindy and George anthony and the police and anyone else about Caylee's whereabouts?

Who abandoned the Pontiac leaving it with a foul smell that everyone concluded was human composition? etc, etc. etc.

the majority of murder cases are tried on circumstantial evidence.

There is one factor none of us know that is the most important and that is the make-up of this jury, their personality, etc.

While a trial is suppose to be about the truth it too often is sidetracked by a jury to wit the OJ Simpson trial.

all we can do is venture a guess as to how we believe the jury will vote.

I believe most of the jury members will give Casey the benefit of the doubt and conclude she unintentionally killed her daughter and hence she will not be convicted of capital murder

[dillywho]

Don't go betting the farm, PennBF :(. She is certainly not worth it.

My premonition on how this will play out:
Count 1 - First Degree Murder: Not Guilty
Count 2 - Aggravated Child Abuse: Not Guilty
Count 3 - Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child: Guilty
Count 4 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, admitted by Baez
Count 5 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, admitted by Baez
Count 6 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, not contested by Baez
Count 7 - Providing False Information to a LEO: Guilty, not contested by Baez

The above could get her a maximum sentence of 34 years. My guess is she'll get 20 years and be out in 10. She will get out of prison a 30-something convicted felon. Her partying crowd will have matured and be raising families of their own... She will be stuck in menial jobs, having no real marketable skills apart from professional con artist, which she would be wise to ignore.

Her Bella Vita won't be so Bella. As much as I'd like to see her get a needle in the arm, I can live with that.

I think you nailed it. Also, with the whole country familiar with that tatoo, unless she has it removed, she can't even assume a new identity.

Much as I dislike this dude, I did find this interesting. I got it in an email.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/070111-Leonard-Padilla-on-how-Caylee-Anthony-died

I dislike Geraldo intently, too, but even he has some interesting points as to why this is so high profile. His question was: Would there have been this much attention if 1) the child was not so beautiful, 2) of another ethnic origin, 3) the mother not pretty, and the family not upper middle class? His answer: No. I agree. Case in point (I said this before), look at the case of Haleigh Cummings. She still hasn't been found and no one has been charged or even arrested (on unrelated charges - yes; murder or anything else - no).

[Barefoot]

Closing arguments start at 8:30 AM Sunday morning. It's going to be an interesting day. I admire Judge Perry's handling of the trial to date. I don't think he is biased for the State; he is fed up with Baez' incompetence and lack of preparation.

I agree with C-Girl's "verdict" of guilty of Aggraved Manslaughter. Casey has been in jail for three years so I assume that time served will be deducted from her sentence. IMHO, a slap on the wrist for the horrendous crime she committed.

[islandgal]

http://www.wftv.com/news/27970046/detail.html

[jebartle]

River Cruz's quoting George "A horrible accident that went out of control"....BUT the accident was over sedating Caylee.....What a family!?
I think Judge Perry was fair!...Baez a poor representation of the profession...Mason was there for his last Hoooraaah!...Miss Ferrell - quiet and meek...Linda Burdick - all business and the best of the lot....Ashton - a good prosecutor that lets his emotions get in the way...Mr George - effective....BUT and here is the big question how will this jury vote....After looking at stats on jury was surprised at how many have a "background", the majority are against or not in favor of death penalty....We will just have to wait and see....I for one, will be glad to have this end and if it goes to appeal it will happen with me on the golf course!....Good postings by TOTV!...Hugs to you all..:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

[robertj1954]

River Cruz's quoting George "A horrible accident that went out of control"....BUT the accident was over sedating Caylee.....What a family!?
I think Judge Perry was fair!...Baez a poor representation of the profession...Mason was there for his last Hoooraaah!...Miss Ferrell - quiet and meek...Linda Burdick - all business and the best of the lot....Ashton - a good prosecutor that lets his emotions get in the way...Mr George - effective....BUT and here is the big question how will this jury vote....After looking at stats on jury was surprised at how many have a "background", the majority are against or not in favor of death penalty....We will just have to wait and see....I for one, will be glad to have this end and if it goes to appeal it will happen with me on the golf course!....Good postings by TOTV!...Hugs to you all..:BigApplause::BigApplause::BigApplause:

Good assesment, I share your viewpoint. See you on the 19th Tee. I am not letting this trial further raise my handicap!

[tpop1]

Chilling closing...it just all makes me sad!

[springfield illinois]

This is almost making a sham out our court system......the fact that biaz able to represent this young lady tells us to be very careful when choosing a lawyer,,,he is in so far over his head....I would love to be fly on the wall when local lawyers have a beer and laugh at biaz ...he is an embarrassment! Perry has done a great job in all this.......this is a real bunch of losers in this family....very sad......the act of a family that problems are very deep seeded.....the sad thing this little girl was the victim of all this nuttiness ! This entire family shares somewhat in the burden of this death!!! Ms Casey is the main person to blame! Somehow you just wish after Caseys death there is a spot that is just bit hotter in hell for her!!!!!!

[Russ_Boston]

This is almost making a sham out our court system......the fact that biaz able to represent this young lady tells us to be very careful when choosing a lawyer,,,he is in so far over his head....I would love to be fly on the wall when local lawyers have a beer and laugh at biaz ...he is an embarrassment! Perry has done a great job in all this.......this is a real bunch of losers in this family....very sad......the act of a family that problems are very deep seeded.....the sad thing this little girl was the victim of all this nuttiness ! This entire family shares somewhat in the burden of this death!!! Ms Casey is the main person to blame! Somehow you just wish after Caseys death there is a spot that is just bit hotter in hell for her!!!!!!

If you follow it that closely you should know his name is Baez.

[red tail]

:BigApplause:If you follow it that closely you should know his name is Baez.

[bkcunningham1]

This is almost making a sham out our court system......the fact that biaz able to represent this young lady tells us to be very careful when choosing a lawyer,,,he is in so far over his head....I would love to be fly on the wall when local lawyers have a beer and laugh at biaz ...he is an embarrassment! Perry has done a great job in all this.......this is a real bunch of losers in this family....very sad......the act of a family that problems are very deep seeded.....the sad thing this little girl was the victim of all this nuttiness ! This entire family shares somewhat in the burden of this death!!! Ms Casey is the main person to blame! Somehow you just wish after Caseys death there is a spot that is just bit hotter in hell for her!!!!!!


If I didn't know better, I would say that her attorney acted incompetent to force a mistrial. BTW, I get his name messed up all the time. Too many characters in this drama to remember. Happy Fourth of July!

[rubicon]

Casey = Lindsay Lohan
Judge Perry = Forest Whitaker
Jose Baez = Casting call for "Enormous Ego"
Jeff Ashton = David James Elliot (JAG fan, here)

CGirl Perry=Forest Whitaker good choice
Jose Baez= Paul Giamatti
Jeff Ashton- David James elliot good choice
Casey Athony- although older good choice Juliette Lewis
George Anthony= Alex Baldwin
Cindy Anthony= march Gay Harden
Linda Burdick= Charlene theron...

[Tbugs]

In my personal opinion, the best idea would be just to toss Casey, her mother, her father, her brother, the mistress, and (just for the fun of it) her legal team in one big cell and throw away the key. It is an entirely disfunctional family and they certainly have no worth to society at all.

[dillywho]

Didn't Ashton say that everything was fine in Casey's life until April when Morales decided he didn't want a permanent relationship? Ashton said that April, May, and June were not good for Casey anymore because of it. If that is the case, then how are computer searches done in mid-March (not late March...mid-March) indicative of pre-meditated murder?

Just watched the replay and Ashton said that her problems with Caylee started in April and May. Also, why would she have to drop Caylee off at her mom's to go to "work" (partying/working -- same difference) if that is where they were living?

[zcaveman]

Anyone know where they moved the golf to?

[CaliforniaGirl]

Anyone know where they moved the golf to?

Roy Kronk took it.

[zcaveman]

I think that Cindy hid the station under golfoform or golfofyll. I just need something other than baseball to watch - and the trial.

[ajbrown]

Are you kidding me? I just came home from a wonderful lunch, looking forward to golf and I am stuck with this? Unbelivable.....:censored::censored:

[jebartle]

why attorneys have a bad name.....Please let the madness stop....



Wonder if Baez thinks Casey is innocent?...Of course, I know that is not a necessity, just give their client due process!

[Barefoot]

What a day. I thought the State's opening/closing today was excellent. But I also thought that Baez did a credible job, (suprising to me), ... awfully long, but he scored some good points.

And the Judge spanked both attorneys. You can't make this stuff up .. no-one would believe it.

[Pturner]

As for 1-4:
1. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.
2. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.
4. Would be nice to know but is not necessary for conviction.

She might or might not be convicted of various charges by the jury, but that's a fact.

[Pturner]

Attorneys argue the law when it is on thir side and the facts when they favor their case. A good attroney can make a nothing fact a big issue. Baez tried that on several occassions. some folks have been hard on Judge Perry but I think he became very frustrated with Baez's not incompetenence but inexperience.

I have always taken court cases down to simple but relevant facts.

Who was the last person to see Caylee alive?

Who neglected to report Caylee missing for 31 dyas?

Who spent that 31 days not looking for her but partying, etc?

Who lied continually to Cindy and George anthony and the police and anyone else about Caylee's whereabouts?

Who abandoned the Pontiac leaving it with a foul smell that everyone concluded was human composition? etc, etc. etc.


Good points. The law does not require jurors to check their common sense at the door when evaluating the evidence.

... although, heaven knows, jurors sometimes do.

[dillywho]

why attorneys have a bad name.....Please let the madness stop....Wonder how the judge is going to justify jail and fines for Matthew but not his attorneys.....

What is it with attorneys that the sky is the limit on who they will drag thru the mud....

Incidently, here is a good question, think I know the answer, would you take the fall for your child if they murdered your grandchild and you knew???

Wonder if Baez thinks Casey is innocent?...Of course, I know that is not a necessity, just give their client due process!

I don't think it matters what Baez thinks, does it? Doesn't he have to know for a fact that she killed her; and if so, is he not required by law to report it to the courts?

Baez showed lots of class today when he asked the judge not to sanction Ashton but to simply put a stop to it. Ashton certainly asked for sanctions against Baez for his transgressions concerning orders. Ashton was still making his faces even after the jury was long gone. It was even worse after he viewed the tape and then still lied about it.

How has he managed to get where he is if this is the norm for him? Maybe he's just been lucky and not had Judge Perry until this case. If so, other lawyers may be on the lookout for him now. Or, is it because other judges don't issue courtroom decorum orders?

[CaliforniaGirl]

Baez showed lots of class today when he asked the judge not to sanction Ashton but to simply put a stop to it.

As much as I dislike Baez, I begrudgingly said out loud "that's class." Then I realized why he did it. Not because it was the classy thing to do, but because Judge Perry had specifically said that he would sanction both of them - Ashton for making fun of Baez by laughing in front of the jury, and Baez for calling him out on it ("that laughing man there", pointing at Ashton), which called the jury's attention to something they otherwise might have missed.

Although it seemed classy, it was actually self-serving. And exactly the right thing to do.

[jebartle]

I give the jury 1 day to give us the verdict of guilty - 2nd degree murder

[graciegirl]

Whose life was better without Caylee?









La Bella Vita is no more Casey.

Even if you could not feel love, you should have known the rules would get you.

[rubicon]

Whose life was better without Caylee?









La Bella Vita is no more Casey.

Even if you could not feel love, you should have known the rules would get you.

Not only chilling and compelling but on point as to motiviation...People following this had all asked that very question. Burdick smart answered questions she knew people would ask concerning this case.

Also was pleased to see both Ashton and Burdick take the pressure and suspicioin away gromCasey's parents.

Can you imagine the torment this family has been through these passed three years?

[red tail]

As much as I dislike Baez, I begrudgingly said out loud "that's class." Then I realized why he did it. Not because it was the classy thing to do, but because Judge Perry had specifically said that he would sanction both of them - Ashton for making fun of Baez by laughing in front of the jury, and Baez for calling him out on it ("that laughing man there", pointing at Ashton), which called the jury's attention to something they otherwise might have missed.

Although it seemed classy, it was actually self-serving. And exactly the right thing to do.

ive said it before and ill say it again.... ashton is a 'pompous a--'
jmho

[Barefoot]

Not only chilling and compelling but on point as to motiviation...People following this had all asked that very question. Burdick smart answered questions she knew people would ask concerning this case.

Also was pleased to see both Ashton and Burdick take the pressure and suspicioin away Casey's parents.

Baez was brutual to George Anthony in his closing remarks. Yes, George lied about his affair with River Cruz. No surprise there, his wife was sitting in the room. But I see him as a devoted and grieving grandfather. As Rubicon says, I was pleased to see Ashton and Burdick move the focus from George back to Casey.

The State finally offered up a motive in their closing, which I think will resonate with jurors. The only person who benefitted from Caylee's death is Party Girl Casey. Any mother that can go out partying night after night when her daughter has just died is heartless. It is astounding to see Casey's lack of expression in Court, concerning anything that doesn't impact her. I don't think she'll get premeditated, but perhaps felony murder.

Baez scored some points yesterday but talked too long. Overall the State had a stronger closing. Any bets on how long the jury will be out? I'm thinking three days.

[RichieLion]

I thought from the very beginning that the idea that George Anthony would bundle up and toss aside his beloved granddaughter who drowned in the family pool instead of calling 911 was totally ludicrous.

Maybe Casey deliberately killed her daughter or knowingly played fast and loose with her life by placing her in a dangerous situation, but it's all murder to me. I would convict her of the top charge. I don't know if the jury will do that, but I'm hoping.

[Shimpy]

I give the jury 1 day to give us the verdict of guilty - 2nd degree murder

That's what they said about OJ., only 1st degree, with more evidence, and he walked. Hope I'm wrong.

[EdV]

....Maybe Casey deliberately killed her daughter or knowingly played fast and loose with her life by placing her in a dangerous situation, but it's all murder to me...

Well if the jury were to somehow believe that Casey chloroformed Caylee and taped her mouth to keep her from crying out while she partied and Casey suffocated or died from a chloroform overdose, they could still convict her of felony murder because Caylee died from Casey’s reckless endangerment of a child, which is felony murder and eligible for the death penalty.

And per Judge Perry’s instructions to the jury today, they need not all agree on whether it’s premeditated or felony murder to reach a guilty verdict.

[dillywho]

Well if the jury were to somehow believe that Casey chloroformed Caylee and taped her mouth to keep her from crying out while she partied and Casey suffocated or died from a chloroform overdose, they could still convict her of felony murder because Caylee died from Casey’s reckless endangerment of a child, which is felony murder and eligible for the death penalty.

And per Judge Perry’s instructions to the jury today, they need not all agree on whether it’s premeditated or felony murder to reach a guilty verdict.

Didn't the judge say in the charge to the jury that in order for it to be felony murder that it would have to be done by someone who would reasonably expect grave harm or even death might result in that action? Everything presented by both sides has shown that she is anything but reasonable. Her actions for years prove that.

I don't think this jury is going to do anything to risk a new trial or reversal or will Judge Perry. No way is she walking and no way do I see her getting even a light sentence. But again, who knows?

There are several things to remember:

The jury has not been involved in discussions.
The jury has not been exposed to media hype.
They have not listened to any outside opinions from other lawyers and judges.
The jury was out of the courtroom for much of the trial.
This is a lot of stuff that they will never hear until this is over and they are excused.
They only get one shot at their verdict and it cannot be changed when they are excused and "catch up" on what they didn't see, hear, or read.

[graciegirl]

ive said it before and ill say it again.... ashton is a 'pompous a--'
jmho

He may appear so to you...and I guess that translates into being extremely confident...but you have to give him that he was very well prepared for this case. He did his job.

[Russ_Boston]

He may appear so to you...and I guess that translates into being extremely confident...but you have to give him that he was very well prepared for this case. He did his job.

I didn't find him any more pompous than a normal state prosecutor. They HAVE to appear that the State has the goods on the accused.

[dillywho]

I didn't find him any more pompous than a normal state prosecutor. They HAVE to appear that the State has the goods on the accused.

I agree to a point. If in doing so with their presentation and demeanor they totally alienate the jury, then the jury will have a tendency to question if they really do have the goods or are just hoping you will buy what they're selling. Sometimes, as the saying goes, "the lady doth protest too much". Sometimes, less really is more. I think selling themselves is crucial to both sides.

[Freeda]

I thought from the very beginning that the idea that George Anthony would bundle up and toss aside his beloved granddaughter who drowned in the family pool instead of calling 911 was totally ludicrous.

Maybe Casey deliberately killed her daughter or knowingly played fast and loose with her life by placing her in a dangerous situation, but it's all murder to me. I would convict her of the top charge. I don't know if the jury will do that, but I'm hoping.

I agree; although early on I disbelieved some of George's testimony, and still can't figure out why he didn't call the police when he thought the car smelled of death (but maybe it's just that he knew his wife was doing that??), and obviously he lied about some things, I think the evidence only fits murder 1 and only as to Casey; whether premeditated (which is my opinion, don't know if the jury will go there - they may have to compromise) or felony murder.

Some of the strongest points that prosecution made in closing that convinced me were:

(1) Casey was the only family member who had access to all of the items of evidence connected with the death (ie, the duct tape, the blanket, the laundry bag, the shorts, the shirt); in particular, the 'Big trouble comes in small packages' teeshirt that Caylee was found in had not been in the Anthony's home; Cindy had never seen it; so it was among the clothing that Casey had kept available with her in the car/at friends' homes. ONLY Casey had access to that shirt.

(2) The body ending up in a bag in a swamp was not reasonably consistent with any theory that an innocent accident had caused the death. In particular, as to the drowning scenario that Baer had hinted about in his opening (which had to have come from Casey, under ethics rules), it is preposterous to imagine that anyone would do anything other than call 911 in a red-hot panic upon finding a drowned (or otherwise innocently injured) child - regardless of the child's condition. Obviously, if 911 been called, a corpse is not going to end up tossed in a swamp. A story that the prosecution brought up in closing to show a heartbreaking contrast with Casey's lack of any parental sentiment for how Casey's remains were treated was one that had been told by the defense's grief expert. She had described a bereaved mother of a little boy, who was her client, and who had called her to say, when a storm was forecasted, that 'he's never been out in the dark in the rain before'; and the grief counsellor picked her up, and brought a blanket and umbrella, and sat with the mother at the grave with the umbrella to protect the child (ie, the grave) from the rain. I could just imagine the jury picturing Caylee's body in a swamp in a bag, unprotected from storms and animals, as the prosecution reminded them of this story.

(3) (This was sooo sinister as the prosecution related it). 'Timer55', which was Casey's 'Myspace' password, and which she had told her brother had something to do with Caylee was, the prosecution theorized, probably an indication of the exact 55 day period from the June 16 date of Caylee's death until the date of Caylee's upcoming 3rd birthday - the date when Casey knew she would be at 'end-game' (the 'timer' would have run out of time) of her carefree partying days, in terms of making excuses (about being at an out of town conference, etc) to her parents as to why they couldn't see Caylee - she knew that they would never accept any excuse for not having the usual family gathering for Caylee's birthday. (The prosecution suggested that Casey's false story of having a developed romantic interest with a wealthy man who lived in Jacksonville, and that she and Caylee were with him there, was a lead-in to Casey's possible plan to perhaps tell her parents that she and Caylee had gone away - perhaps overseas, who knows?? - with this man, as a reason for them not being able to see Caylee. However, the parents being called by the tow lot about Casey's abandoned car being in Orlando tipped them off that her excuses for her whereabouts had been lies).

(4) The vines, leaf cover etc grown around/over the skull made it obvious that it had been there for months. The weathered condition of of the duct tape made it obvious that it had, also, been on the remains for a long time (ie, not added recently, as the defense suggested Roy Kronk may have done). The correct (pre-death) anatomical position of the mandible to the skull was because of the presence of the duct tape, which was holding the mandible in position; meaning that either the duct tape had been applied prior to decomposition of the skin and other connective tissues (since otherwise the mandible would have fallen away from the skull as decomposition occurred), or that the duct tape was applied after decomposition, in order to reconstruct the mandible and skull into proper alignment; which would have meant that the skull had been moved, which is inconsistent with the overgrowth of vines, etc over the skull. Plus, what reason would anyone have to tape a mandible back into its normal alignment with the skull (besides the fact that it was obvious that the skull had never been moved, as discussed above).

(5) Assuming you believe (4) to be true, that is, the duct tape was applied before the body decomposed, then the question is was it placed before or after death? Why would anyone put duct tape on the face of a dead child? That makes no sense. This leaves as the only answer that the duct tape was placed prior to death. Assuming that to be true, what was the purpose - if you are just trying to silence the child (even in this brutal way), why would you need more than one piece across the mouth? (Three pieces of duct tape were found on the skull). Ashton theorized that one tape would have been used to cover the mouth, the second to cover the nose, and the third diagonally to secure the others.

(6) At the place where Casey had abandoned her car, she had left it backed up to a dumpster - probably in order to find a bag of garbage she could put into her trunk as a 'decoy' to try to explain the smell of decomposition that was in her car's trunk; and also since being by a dumpster would make people near the car less apt to suspect anything from the foul odor - she hoped that they would think it was from the dumpter.

(7) As Caylee approached 3, she was more and more becoming able to talk - and Casey's lies about taking Caylee to Zanny (the nonexistent nanny, which was a cover for the also nonexistent job, which was a cover for Casey's whereabouts when she was partying) etc, which perpetuated the life of freedom and fun that she wanted, would soon, Casey probably realized, be revealed by Caylee, in innocent conversations with her grandparents, etc.

(8) Linda Burdick had the perfect response to the defense's theory that Casey's partying (and all of her lies about what she was doing, Caylee's whereabouts, the two of them being out of town for Casey's work, then later the "ok, the truth is that Zanny abducted her weeks ago, and I've been doing my own investigation trying to find Caylee" story, etc) was her manner of handling grief, based on her dysfunctional background; supported by the grief expert's testimony that people react differently to grief. Ms. Burdick said, "It may be true that it is unpredictable how people respond to grief; however, how people respond to guilt is so predictable - they lie and try to avoid getting caught for what they've done."

Since I didn't see all of the trial some of these points were new to me in the closing arguments.

I predict a verdict by Friday at the latest.

[EdV]

Didn't the judge say in the charge to the jury that in order for it to be felony murder that it would have to be done by someone who would reasonably expect grave harm or even death might result in that action?.....

The whole purpose of instituting the concept of felony murder was to eliminate the possibility of someone getting off with a lesser sentence by claiming that the death was not premeditated.

But, you put duct tape over a little 2 ½ year old child’s mouth and she suffocates as a result of it, it’s felony murder, simple as that.

[Barefoot]

But, you put duct tape over a little 2 ½ year old child’s mouth and she suffocates as a result of it, it’s felony murder, simple as that.

Especially three pieces of duct tape.

[bkcunningham1]

He may appear so to you...and I guess that translates into being extremely confident...but you have to give him that he was very well prepared for this case. He did his job.


He is confident and pompous because he translates into good. I agree Gracie. He is well prepared, educated and extremely confident. I hope the jury understands. I have faith that they do understand good against evil. Right againt wrong. Bad against good. I think they will do the right thing.

[jebartle]

I noticed that her lips are moving, guess that means she is lying!

[HeyGirly]

[QUOTE=Freeda;367995.
(7) As Caylee approached 3, she was more and more becoming able to talk - and Casey's lies about taking Caylee to Zanny (the nonexistent nanny, which was a cover for the also nonexistent job, which was a cover for Casey's whereabouts when she was partying) etc, which perpetuated the life of freedom and fun that she wanted, would soon, Casey probably realized, be revealed by Caylee, in innocent conversations with her grandparents, etc.



To me, this is a VERY important piece of the puzzle--it was going to become increasingly difficult for KC to continue to lie as Caylee became more verbal. Added to the mix, it is one of the reasons I came to the conclusion that KC is solely responsible for Caleey's death, and also responsible for the lifetime sentence of heartache that her entire family now has to bear.

[katezbox]

[QUOTE=Freeda;367995.
(7) As Caylee approached 3, she was more and more becoming able to talk - and Casey's lies about taking Caylee to Zanny (the nonexistent nanny, which was a cover for the also nonexistent job, which was a cover for Casey's whereabouts when she was partying) etc, which perpetuated the life of freedom and fun that she wanted, would soon, Casey probably realized, be revealed by Caylee, in innocent conversations with her grandparents, etc.



To me, this is a VERY important piece of the puzzle--it was going to become increasingly difficult for KC to continue to lie as Caylee became more verbal. Added to the mix, it is one of the reasons I came to the conclusion that KC is solely responsible for Caleey's death, and also responsible for the lifetime sentence of heartache that her entire family now has to bear.

Hey Girlie - I agree. Freeda, as usual, sums this up well. :BigApplause:

Until reading Freeda's comments, I was thinking that this might be involuntary manslaughter. However, now I am not so sure. I still think that the duct tape may have been applied posthumously to make the case for a fictitious kidnapping and that the chloroform was given in excess this time.

I think the only thing we really know for sure is that the entire Anthony family has little issue with continuous lies and that poor Caylee never had a chance. Tragic...

[CMANN]

What is more important to you? Casey is convicted or the State prove its case beyond every reasonable doubt?

[katezbox]

What is more important to you? Casey is convicted or the State prove its case beyond every reasonable doubt?

It is more important to me that the state prove its case. That is a foundation of our great country. Sadly, that means some of the guilty go free - but compare that to countries where people are convicted of trumped up charges.

[EdV]

The jury has reached a verdict. It will be read at 2:15 today.

[rubicon]

predicteda fairly quick verdict. Predict murder in the 1st degree

[rubicon]

jurors return to court this morning in their sunday best. this means they made a decision yesterday.

[katezbox]

The jury has reached a verdict. It will be read at 2:15 today.

Do not think that bodes well for Casey...

[2BNTV]

Do not think that bodes well for Casey...

:agree: Those who predicted two days for the jury to come in were correct.

I hope justice is served. We will soon find out.

[katezbox]

Do not think that bodes well for Casey...

Wow - was I wrong!

[rubicon]

Wow - was I wrong!

No...WOW was the jury wrong!

[VillagesFlorida]

Casey had better be watching over her back for the rest of her life. There are a lot of angry people out there who feel that justice was NOT served for Caylee. Had she gone to prison she would likely have been protected by being kept out of the general population. That will not be the case as she enters the real world once she is released. The truth is that she may well have lived longer in prison than she may live now. In my mind she will be lucky to make it through the next few months or years without being killed herself. "Bella Vita" may not end up being very long or very beautiful.

[Shimpy]

Like I said all along, look for an "OJ" verdict. Regardless of what you have been told in school all your life of our perfect trial by jury system, it comes down to who is better, the prosecutor or defense attorney. When either has a witness say something and then the judge instructs the jury to "disregard that remark", it has been heard and can you really disregard it? Closing arguments are very important, and I believe whoever speaks last has an advantage. How about a court appointed attorney compared to the high power attorneys of big business. I'm never surprised by verdicts.

[Barefoot]

No...WOW was the jury wrong!

I predict that Casey will get lots of interviews, book deals, whatever. She'll love being the media darling.

Sadly, Casey will eventually hurt someone else. And perhaps, that time, she won't walk free.

[CMANN]

I predict that Casey will get lots of interviews, book deals, whatever. She'll love being the media darling.

Sadly, Casey will eventually hurt someone else. And perhaps, that time, she won't walk free.

If she does hurt someone else, I hope there is proof that time.

[katezbox]

Like I said all along, look for an "OJ" verdict. Regardless of what you have been told in school all your life of our perfect trial by jury system, it comes down to who is better, the prosecutor or defense attorney. When either has a witness say something and then the judge instructs the jury to "disregard that remark", it has been heard and can you really disregard it? Closing arguments are very important, and I believe whoever speaks last has an advantage. How about a court appointed attorney compared to the high power attorneys of big business. I'm never surprised by verdicts.

I also think part of this is all of the crime TV series and books that so many of us love. We expect the evidence to be as "perfect" as it is on NCIS, or CSI or in a Kay Scarpetta novel. Unfortunately - it isn't...

[eremite06]

Casey had better be watching over her back for the rest of her life. There are a lot of angry people out there who feel that justice was NOT served for Caylee. Had she gone to prison she would likely have been protected by being kept out of the general population. That will not be the case as she enters the real world once she is released. The truth is that she may well have lived longer in prison than she may live now. In my mind she will be lucky to make it through the next few months or years without being killed herself. "Bella Vita" may not end up being very long or very beautiful.

:bigbow: I agree. But I figured she would get hers in prison. Now that Bin Laden is gone is there a more dispicable human being walking this earth than Casey????

[katezbox]

:bigbow: I agree. But I figured she would get hers in prison. Now that Bin Laden is gone is there a more dispicable human being walking this earth than Casey????

There may be no prison - she has already served 3 years....

[VillagesFlorida]

:bigbow: I agree. But I figured she would get hers in prison. Now that Bin Laden is gone is there a more dispicable human being walking this earth than Casey????

A part of me feels sorry for Casey after seeing her family in action on the witness stand. The only one who seemed real and genuine was Lee. I saw a video of Cindy recently and I saw something in her eyes that scared me. Her eyes were piercing and "dark". I decided right then and there that there is much about this woman that we do not know. I doubt very much that Casey was born to be a psychopath and a liar. I am not saying that Cindy didn't love Caylee or that she wasn't genuinely concerned when she went missing. I don't think there is any doubt about the feelings she has displayed over her granddaughter. But, that said, I believe that there was something in the dynamics between her and Casey that created this monster. Will we ever know? No. And, if any of them ever DID talk about it in the future who would believe them?? My feeling still is that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree". I think that Cindy Anthony's daughter was groomed and schooled in the fine art of deception and denial. I wonder why Cynthia smiled when the verdict was read? Was it "Oh, good, I got away with my lies on the witness stand"? Or, was it "Wow! I am going to become a rich woman once I sign some book deals and get myself on all of the talk shows". I just can not conceive of a grandmother smiling, knowing that justice was not served for her granddaughter. Well, guess what? The defense's evidence points now to hubby George as the culprit! I'd like to be a fly on the wall of the Anthony's bedroom tonight! Oh wait! These people are experts in deceipt and denial. Will they do what they did when Casey was obviously pregnant......look the other way and pretend it didn't happen? Life will go on.

[VillagesFlorida]

I predict that Casey will get lots of interviews, book deals, whatever. She'll love being the media darling.

Sadly, Casey will eventually hurt someone else. And perhaps, that time, she won't walk free.

I hope she hires a good bodyguard. She is going to need one.

[Shimpy]

I hope she hires a good bodygaurd. She is going to need one.

I agree. If I were her, I'd get on a bus and travel to Idaho, Alaska, or another remote place and begin a new life or at least until it cools off to the point that most people forget and most people will.

[rubicon]

There is no where in this world that Casey can hide. It is clear the jury was confused by their charge. all they had to do is to render a verdict. According to juror 3 they believed they also administered punishment

One thing that surprised me was Cheny Mason demeanor. he went from a charming southern gentlemen to a shark. to wit his comments following the verdict. At least Baez won with humility.


Bottom line with the jury'sdecision we have another example of the dumbing down of America. Finally Casey Anthony won't be able to let go of her demons and while she will make a fortunate from this event she will be scorned by most of sociey

[VillagesFlorida]

There is no where in this world that Casey can hide. It is clear the jury was confused by their charge. all they had to do is to render a verdict. According to juror 3 they believed they also administered punishment

One thing that surprised me was Cheny Mason demeanor. he went from a charming southern gentlemen to a shark. to wit his comments following the verdict. At least Baez won with humility.


Bottom line with the jury'sdecision we have another example of the dumbing down of America. Finally Casey Anthony won't be able to let go of her demons and while she will make a fortunate from this event she will be scorned by most of sociey

Casey isn't so different from O.J. Simpson in that she believes that she is above the law. This arrogance is going to get her into more trouble and the next time she may not get off....that is, if she lives long enough to make another "mistake". Jose Baez may have spared her from death by lethal injection but that might have been a better way to go than what she may suffer at the hands of some kook......I can see another Lee Harvey Oswald or Jack Ruby incident right around the corner. Someone out there is going to seek justice for Caylee. Personally, I don't see any resolution to this travesty of justice until this woman is dead. As for Cheney Mason, his actions since the verdict are nothing short of repulsive and juvenile. I didn't like him during the trial and now I have no respect for him whatsoever. He and Casey belong together. Jose Baez's interviews have been totally opposite and he has conducted himself in a most professional way. As for Casey making a fortune from all of this, I really don't see her living long enough to enjoy it. It sickens me to no end to think that this family is going to try to capitalize on the death of this little girl. "Normal" mothers and grandparents wouldn't think of cashing in, in a situation like this. But, then again, they don't come close to being "normal". As for the jury, I wonder where they left their common sense? I really do not believe that they understood what "reasonable doubt" is. EVERYONE let Caylee down. I thank the prosecution team for at least trying to get justice for her.

[Taltarzac725]

Like I said all along, look for an "OJ" verdict. Regardless of what you have been told in school all your life of our perfect trial by jury system, it comes down to who is better, the prosecutor or defense attorney. When either has a witness say something and then the judge instructs the jury to "disregard that remark", it has been heard and can you really disregard it? Closing arguments are very important, and I believe whoever speaks last has an advantage. How about a court appointed attorney compared to the high power attorneys of big business. I'm never surprised by verdicts.

Anyone have any new opinions about the Casey Anthony verdict? Just wondering if time has changed your views of her innocence or not?

I could not follow exactly how the body was transported and by whom when Baez was explaining how Caylee had drowned in the pool. He never really explained who had done what with the little girl's body after she had drowned. Maybe, I missed that part of the trial though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Caylee_Anthony

I remember the prosecution's assertions about what had happened but always felt there were a lot of holes in their case.

[zcaveman]

Anyone have any new opinions about the Casey Anthony verdict? Just wondering if time has changed your views of her innocence or not?

I could not follow exactly how the body was transported and by whom when Baez was explaining how Caylee had drowned in the pool. He never really explained who had done what with the little girl's body after she had drowned. Maybe, I missed that part of the trial though. Death of Caylee Anthony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Caylee_Anthony)

I remember the prosecution's assertions about what had happened but always felt there were a lot of holes in their case.

My views have not changed. And I doubt if anyone else's views have changed.

Why dredge up old news. Is it because of the upcoming civil trial that will never happen because of the fear for Casey's safety?

[Taltarzac725]

My views have not changed. And I doubt if anyone else's views have changed.

Why dredge up old news. Is it because of the upcoming civil trial that will never happen because of the fear for Casey's safety?

I suppose the civil trial is why I dredged this up.

[collie1228]

The only remaining interest I have in this case is to see whether the local voters have the smarts to vote out their incompetent district attorney. No. 1 he never should have pursued the case at the level charged, and then, after he made that basic error, he did a terrible job of presenting the evidence that he did have. A total waste of the taxpayers' money IMHO. Had he gone for criminally negligent homicide or something similar in the first place, there probably would have been a plea agreement and Ms. Anthony would be behind bars today.

[zcaveman]

I suppose the civil trial is why I dredged this up.

I do keep my eye on any Casey Anthony news. I am hoping that one of these days she will get caught on something. So far she has escaped everything that has been thrown at her. Get a job? Can't - scared to be out in public. Have a deposition? Can't - might interfere with the other law suits. Etc. Etc.

She leads a charmed life. Many many years from now she will be forgotten and she will be able to walk in public again. I hope not.

[dillywho]

If this Zenaida Gonzalez would just go away, so would all the flap about Casey. I cannot believe that Casey's story in any way impacted her being able to get/keep a job. It has long been proven that she in no way resembles the "nanny" Casey described, including the name. Casey told her parents that her "nanny" always went by 3 names....Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. When this suit was first filed, Morgan cleaned up his client really well, but now (and before) she would be hard pressed to get a decent job regardless of her name or Casey's story.

[rubicon]

I suspect the Casey Anthony trial will stay with us because like OJ Simpson most believed he was guilty and got away with it.

In my opinion it was not the State that failed but rather jury members who were not responsible enough to properly discharge their duties. There were a number of counts that the jury could have imposed on Casey anthony but they were to in a hurry to get out.

[red tail]

its been my experience that jurors generally take their duty very serious. and for you to say they didn't is total BS on your part !!

[Raen Dear]

Yes, red tail, I agree that juries take their responsibilities seriously, even when jury duty is inconvenient. And that's not saying we all try to avoid it if we can, but once in, we're in. My husband and I have both been on juries and I was in the legal field for a number of years. I do not recollect lawyers complaining about juries in that regard. They may be quixotic, but not frivolous, especially in a capital murder case.

Also, for what it's worth, I agree with collie3 (?), that the DA was apparently remiss.

Also, for what it's worth, I was not at the time convinced that OJ was guilty. In light of his recent behavior, I'm less certain. Both he and Casey seem kind of stupid, an yet, they confounded everyone.

[Barefoot]

The only remaining interest I have in this case is to see whether the local voters have the smarts to vote out their incompetent district attorney. No. 1 he never should have pursued the case at the level charged, and then, after he made that basic error, he did a terrible job of presenting the evidence that he did have. A total waste of the taxpayers' money IMHO. Had he gone for criminally negligent homicide or something similar in the first place, there probably would have been a plea agreement and Ms. Anthony would be behind bars today.

I agree that a jury would probably have convicted on a lesser charge. The Prosecution was over confident. However I believe in Karma. At some point I think that Casey will self destruct.

[Taltarzac725]

Yes, red tail, I agree that juries take their responsibilities seriously, even when jury duty is inconvenient. And that's not saying we all try to avoid it if we can, but once in, we're in. My husband and I have both been on juries and I was in the legal field for a number of years. I do not recollect lawyers complaining about juries in that regard. They may be quixotic, but not frivolous, especially in a capital murder case.

Also, for what it's worth, I agree with collie3 (?), that the DA was apparently remiss.

Also, for what it's worth, I was not at the time convinced that OJ was guilty. In light of his recent behavior, I'm less certain. Both he and Casey seem kind of stupid, an yet, they confounded everyone.

I feel that OJ was guilty of murder but the defense never proved it. Casey Anthony is a liar but that is all I am convinced of now. She did take part in the cover-up of how Caylee died along with her father. It does sound like Caylee drowned. Negligent homicide, probably, but not murder. JMHO.

[Taltarzac725]

Casey Anthony Interview: Piers Morgan's Exclusive Conversation With Notorious Defendant (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/casey-anthony-interview-piers-morgan-cnn_n_1591507.html)

[BBQMan]

The headline distorts the facts to create sensation. An honest headline would be Piers Morgan Exclusive Interview With Casey Anthony

Whether we agree with the decision or not, the words Notorious and Defendant should not be there and are only there for sensationalism. Ditto quoting Nancy Grace. Report the interview itself, don't retry the case. The jury decided she was 'not guilty' and we should accept that as the fact even though we may disagree.