Air Conditioning Failures (HVAC)

[handieman]

I do hope that everyone that has had an air conditioner failure, read the July issue of the Property Owners Association (POA) newsletter. The line set failures are now spreading from patio villas to designer homes. It is imperative that you fill out the questionaire in this newsletter and forward it to the POA.

[kaydee]

Just today our AC quit..... I do have a call into Chuck Farrell but had to leave voicemail. Does anyone know if he works on Sundays? I will also be contacting the above email address regarding the form that was mentioned but I must admit I don't know what that is all about. Care to shed some light on it? In the meantime it's awfully warm in here and I hope to hear from Chuck before toooooo long.

[GeorgeT]

Just today our AC quit..... I do have a call into Chuck Farrell but had to leave voicemail. Does anyone know if he works on Sundays? I will also be contacting the above email address regarding the form that was mentioned but I must admit I don't know what that is all about. Care to shed some light on it? In the meantime it's awfully warm in here and I hope to hear from Chuck before toooooo long.

Chuck came out to our house last Sunday because our AC quit. The fan on the compressor unit would not turn so the condenser coils got to hot. For a band-aid I but a box fan on top of the compressor unit facing up and that worked until Chuck replaced the start capacitor the next day. I'm very happy with Chuck's work and his quick response.

[drdodge]

any copper that is run underground and comes up thru the concrete should be in a conduit to prevent the concrete eating away at the copper. There are chemicals in concrete that will cause the copper line deterioate and therefore fail after a few years. I eas a construction superintendent for 25 years and we would never bring copper up thru concrete without some protection
drd

[graciegirl]

Handie?

Are these new or newish air conditioners that are failing? Does someone think it is a "bad batch" like the Owens Corning shingles that the manufacturer had to replace??

[drdodge]

The problem is that they were not installed properly
drd

[ricthemic]

Is this lineset issue happening in relatively new homes? Recently I noticed some new homes where the condenser pad was located over three feet away from the lineset conduit. The insulated suction line was buried in dirt and the liquid line was exposed on top of the sod in harms way of the lawn cutting tools. IMO the lineset and the control wiring should never be installed underground even if it is in a plastic conduit (what happens when the seal goes on the buried conduit outside? Water, insects, rodents etc into the conduit and if the seal in the garage is not tight....) The line set should be go up the side of the house (can also be enclosed) into the attic and over to the air handler. It is not that much more copper, the lines are protected and can be repaired or replaced easily. I have even seen village hvac contractors replacing condensing units and air handlers (all on the old R 22 refrigerant and oil) and NOT replace the lineset. Don't waste your money utlilizing the existing lineset which may have caused you to lose your system. They might tell you they cleaned up the system and pressure checked it... you want a complete new system and the new line set shd be pressure tested and evacuated properly. Sorry for the long post but I still wd like to know, how old are the houses that the POA are talking about? thanks

[Russ_Boston]

Don't the new homes have 10 years on the AC system?

[katezbox]

Don't the new homes have 10 years on the AC system?

Russ,

Jim (who knows these things) tells me that we bought a warranty to extend our coverage for 10 years. He thinks it was about $850 to do that. One of the conditions to keep the warranty in place is to have annual checkups, which we just had. Our AC company is Munns - not sure what happens with the rest. Maybe some provide the warranty without an additional cost?

Kate

[Russ_Boston]

Thanks Kate - I'll check.

Here is the POA article for those interested: http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201107.pdf

[Bogie Shooter]

Is this lineset issue happening in relatively new homes? Recently I noticed some new homes where the condenser pad was located over three feet away from the lineset conduit. The insulated suction line was buried in dirt and the liquid line was exposed on top of the sod in harms way of the lawn cutting tools. IMO the lineset and the control wiring should never be installed underground even if it is in a plastic conduit (what happens when the seal goes on the buried conduit outside? Water, insects, rodents etc into the conduit and if the seal in the garage is not tight....) The line set should be go up the side of the house (can also be enclosed) into the attic and over to the air handler. It is not that much more copper, the lines are protected and can be repaired or replaced easily. I have even seen village hvac contractors replacing condensing units and air handlers (all on the old R 22 refrigerant and oil) and NOT replace the lineset. Don't waste your money utlilizing the existing lineset which may have caused you to lose your system. They might tell you they cleaned up the system and pressure checked it... you want a complete new system and the new line set shd be pressure tested and evacuated properly. Sorry for the long post but I still wd like to know, how old are the houses that the POA are talking about? thanks

July POA bulletin.....see page 10.
http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201107.pdf

[handieman]

Good questions everyone. I'll try to bring you up to speed on this issue. April 2010, this issue (copper line sets) was brought to my attention. Being a Rep. for the VHA I brought it to the attention of the warranty department. For the next 9 months the most the VHA could accomplish is a extended warranty of 5 yrs from house closing. That makes homes built in 2006 near expiration. The problem exists in newer homes and now has been discovered in designer homes (previously patio villas).
The developer is well aware of this and the home warranty department continues to "blow smoke" in my face.
After much soul searching I and another Rep of the VHA decided to hand our research papers over to the POA. If you read the article you will see they wish to pursue a fair rebate to the hundreds of homeowners that have paid hundreds of dollars out of pocket.

IF YOU HAVE HAD PROBLEMS, please fill out the questionaire and send it to the POA. You may have noticed that patio villas now have the AC compressor located along side the villa instead of behind. This is on purpose. They realize that the length of the line is increasing the odds of failure.

ALSO Do not under any circumstances use vinegar to flush the condensate line. The AC copper lines are enclosed in conduit along with the condensate line and IS NOT PROPERLY SEALED. After digging up 6 abandoned underground lines, we found them sealed with publix shopping bags, pepsi cans, roofing, and bubble wrap. I'm not kidding I have the pictures to prove this. The Vinegar is 5% acid and will seep down to the exit of the copper lines and copper and acid don't get along. DUH !
I actually suggest you extend the condensate line away from the compressor area. Other wise this area is constantly moist.

handie
J-Wharton@comcast.net

[Russ_Boston]

Great job Handie! Thanks.

[golfnut]

I agree, Kudo's to Handie, as a VHA rep turning information over to the POA is occupational suicide, yes I know technically it's not an occupation but I think you know what I mean. Hijack, Russ how's it going up north....gn

[duffysmom]

A BIG :BigApplause: to you Handie. Folks, if you haven't joined the POA here's another reason to do so. Past experiences tell us we can't expect Big Daddy to take care of us unless he is forced to do.

[katezbox]

Good questions everyone. I'll try to bring you up to speed on this issue. April 2010, this issue (copper line sets) was brought to my attention. Being a Rep. for the VHA I brought it to the attention of the warranty department. For the next 9 months the most the VHA could accomplish is a extended warranty of 5 yrs from house closing. That makes homes built in 2006 near expiration. The problem exists in newer homes and now has been discovered in designer homes (previously patio villas).
The developer is well aware of this and the home warranty department continues to "blow smoke" in my face.
After much soul searching I and another Rep of the VHA decided to hand our research papers over to the POA. If you read the article you will see they wish to pursue a fair rebate to the hundreds of homeowners that have paid hundreds of dollars out of pocket.

IF YOU HAVE HAD PROBLEMS, please fill out the questionaire and send it to the POA. You may have noticed that patio villas now have the AC compressor located along side the villa instead of behind. This is on purpose. They realize that the length of the line is increasing the odds of failure.

ALSO Do not under any circumstances use vinegar to flush the condensate line. The AC copper lines are enclosed in conduit along with the condensate line and IS NOT PROPERLY SEALED. After digging up 6 abandoned underground lines, we found them sealed with publix shopping bags, pepsi cans, roofing, and bubble wrap. I'm not kidding I have the pictures to prove this. The Vinegar is 5% acid and will seep down to the exit of the copper lines and copper and acid don't get along. DUH !
I actually suggest you extend the condensate line away from the compressor area. Other wise this area is constantly moist.

handie
J-Wharton@comcast.net

:BigApplause:

[handieman]

PS:
The POA has a website www.poa4us.org which I find to be interesting reading
Handie

[Russ_Boston]

I agree, Kudo's to Handie, as a VHA rep turning information over to the POA is occupational suicide, yes I know technically it's not an occupation but I think you know what I mean. Hijack, Russ how's it going up north....gn

Always envisioned a time when POA and VHA could work together for all of us.

Hijack back - Doing well GN but home sales are slow up here. I'll be there 8/27 to 9/5 for a quick visit to check on the house etc.

[handieman]

Always envisioned a time when POA and VHA could work together for all of us.

Hijack back - Doing well GN but home sales are slow up here. I'll be there 8/27 to 9/5 for a quick visit to check on the house etc.

Hi Russ!
Take a look at the VHA website "www.thevha.net" and click on the history tab and look at the founding of the VHA. it will give you some incite on how the VHA was born and the conditions on how it operates.

Handie

[Pturner]

Good questions everyone. I'll try to bring you up to speed on this issue. April 2010, this issue (copper line sets) was brought to my attention. Being a Rep. for the VHA I brought it to the attention of the warranty department. For the next 9 months the most the VHA could accomplish is a extended warranty of 5 yrs from house closing. That makes homes built in 2006 near expiration. The problem exists in newer homes and now has been discovered in designer homes (previously patio villas).
The developer is well aware of this and the home warranty department continues to "blow smoke" in my face.
After much soul searching I and another Rep of the VHA decided to hand our research papers over to the POA. If you read the article you will see they wish to pursue a fair rebate to the hundreds of homeowners that have paid hundreds of dollars out of pocket.

IF YOU HAVE HAD PROBLEMS, please fill out the questionaire and send it to the POA. You may have noticed that patio villas now have the AC compressor located along side the villa instead of behind. This is on purpose. They realize that the length of the line is increasing the odds of failure.

ALSO Do not under any circumstances use vinegar to flush the condensate line. The AC copper lines are enclosed in conduit along with the condensate line and IS NOT PROPERLY SEALED. After digging up 6 abandoned underground lines, we found them sealed with publix shopping bags, pepsi cans, roofing, and bubble wrap. I'm not kidding I have the pictures to prove this. The Vinegar is 5% acid and will seep down to the exit of the copper lines and copper and acid don't get along. DUH !
I actually suggest you extend the condensate line away from the compressor area. Other wise this area is constantly moist.

handie
J-Wharton@comcast.net

Great job, Handie
Thanks for the info and for all your efforts on behalf of homeowners!

Pturner

[Russ_Boston]

Hi Russ!
Take a look at the VHA website "www.thevha.net" and click on the history tab and look at the founding of the VHA. it will give you some incite on how the VHA was born and the conditions on how it operates.

Handie

Will do. thanks

[handieman]

I am meeting with the POA, an outside private AC consultant, and a 50 ft piece of failed copper for lab analysis, Monday the 18th. Stay tuned.
Handie

[getdul981]

any copper that is run underground and comes up thru the concrete should be in a conduit to prevent the concrete eating away at the copper. There are chemicals in concrete that will cause the copper line deterioate and therefore fail after a few years. I eas a construction superintendent for 25 years and we would never bring copper up thru concrete without some protection
drd

What is the difference in running like this and running through a concrete basement wall like we had up north? Sounds like the dirt and not the concrete is the culprit. Although I agree that the line should be protected from whatever the problem is by being in plastic conduit.

[MaryEllen]

I do hope that everyone that has had an air conditioner failure, read the July issue of the Property Owners Association (POA) newsletter. The line set failures are now spreading from patio villas to designer homes. It is imperative that you fill out the questionaire in this newsletter and forward it to the POA.
Handie,
I am in New York and i was just informed that my a/c unit is not running. Can you recommend someone that is fair. I know air conditioning,but i am not there until october 1 st
John Blankenberg

[Snowbirdtobe]

Here is a post from another thread. It might not be the tubing but it could be lightning blowing the capacitor that is required to start the motor.

When your AC goes wrong or you need a tune up most of the big AC companies send out a sales person. When you insist on having it repaired then they will then call out the repair person. I use Greg Theorides - he's an independent AC repairman - when our AC quit last year he came out and installed a new dual capacitor for $100 - checked the gas and other stuff while he was at it - 20 minutes no nonsense. Allan.

[Bryan]

Check out this month's issue of the The Villages Voice, the newsletter of the VHA. It will be a supplement to this coming Tuesday's issue of The Daily Sun. They have a good article from Seniors Vs Crime on HVAC repair scams. That is not exactly the same as this problem (buried, unprotected lines) but it does get close in some aspects, like the annual checkups.

[Virtual Geezer]

Handie,
I am in New York and i was just informed that my a/c unit is not running. Can you recommend someone that is fair. I know air conditioning,but i am not there until october 1 st
John Blankenberg

John

Try Chuck Farrell Air Conditioning Company Telephone 753-9497. More good recommendations for Chuck than any other company for A/C on TOTV.

VG

[Bogie Shooter]

In todays (9/16) Daily Sun, there is an article announcing that the reimbursement plan has been extended to a full 10 years. There is a copy of the extended service agreement signed by the developer H.Gary Moorse also in the article. I could not find this information anywhere on a website.

[graciegirl]

In todays (9/16) Daily Sun, there is an article announcing that the reimbursement plan has been extended to a full 10 years. There is a copy of the extended service agreement signed by the developer H.Gary Moorse also in the article. I could not find this information anywhere on a website.

It also said ...I think I remember correctly, that this problem affected less than one percent of homeowners.

Anyway, I read that article and thought...well, that is good.

[bestmickey]

HANDIE FOR PRESIDENT !!!!
(And I don't mean President of the VHA.)

[handieman]

HANDIE FOR PRESIDENT !!!!
(And I don't mean President of the VHA.)

BLUSHING

This should be a done deal now and the form is available on the VHA website.
Don't overlook all the efforts that the VHA and the POA went to to get this issue resolved. I was just the squeaky wheel.
Handie
PS: Thank You Mark Morse and all involved, you know who you are. The Villages continues to be the best retirement community on earth.
BTW, I got my inbox fixed.

[chevy]

I do hope that everyone that has had an air conditioner failure, read the July issue of the Property Owners Association (POA) newsletter. The line set failures are now spreading from patio villas to designer homes. It is imperative that you fill out the questionaire in this newsletter and forward it to the POA.

:spoken: I live in a designer home and have lineset underground. I contacted the Villages warranty .They contacted Munns a/c to investigate.They did come out and check system.I was told that they were going to place red dye in the system ,and that it would show up by coming out from the conduit the the lineset is placed in.NOT POSSIBLE.. The final answer was that i had a leak in the a coil ,any replies ?:undecided:

[mulligan]

why is this not possible ??

[Aruca]

Time to get a new compressor and furnace...What is the latest on Trane
Are they still having problems?

Who is installing a good system these days?
Average price for a 3 ton 16 SEER?
Any other insight would be appreciated.