Ground faults, etc.

[Lou and Carolyn C.]

:confused:

[mulligan]

Big cracks from earthquakes????

[Skip2MySue]

:confused:

Based on my 1 year experience is this the new name for Once a Year lawn service:D
Skip 2

[Lou and Carolyn C.]

Based on my 1 year experience is this the new name for Once a Year lawn service:D
Skip 2

Sorry for misleading with ground faults, etc.

I was actually trying to delete the post, but I failed.

What I was trying to ask is:

Since we are not at our CYV, our neighbor called to let us know that during Sunday's (July 10th) electrical storm a number of homes lost access to their garage door, etc. We had a friend that lives in The Villages go check on ours and sure enough it didn't work, so he reset the ground faults and then the irrigation system box began to smoke, so he unplugged it. Did this happen to anyone else and if so what did you do to fix this issue.? I called the warranty office today and she said it sounds as though lightening struck our home and it would be an electrial problem and wouldn't be covered under warranty, so she said she would have R&A Ind. Electrician call us (still waiting for a call from them). I suppose I will need to call our home insurance co. to see if this is covered under our insurance. Does anyone out ther have any advice to share with regards to this matter?

[graciegirl]

I sympathize. What a worry to be here and hear something is wrong there and vice versa.

[Lou and Carolyn C.]

I sympathize. What a worry to be here and hear something is wrong there and vice versa.

Thanks Gracie for feeling my pain.

It will work out though, as they say "this too shall pass".

Our friend is helping with this issue, he is probably at our house as I'm typing this, along with the R & A Ind. personnel.

Our insurance company said they would cover, however since we have $500.00 deductable to meet first and anything over that we could put a claim in for, but she also stated that if we put in a claim it would raise our premiums, crazy but true!!

I suppose if the irrigation system is "shot" then we will obviously need to have K & B Lawn come out to repair, not sure how much $$$ it will cost us.

But it is what it is!!

PS: I notice you are from OH, I'm originally from KY the Louisville (Jefferson County area), I believe there is also a lady named Freda that's from Louisville as well. The Villages really brings many people from so many different parts of the country/world in one big happy place.

Carolyn

[thistrucksforyou]

Based on my 1 year experience is this the new name for Once a Year lawn service:D
Skip 2

FUNNY ..:gc:

[Skip2MySue]

FUNNY ..:gc:

Skip from Indiana,
Just trying to keep the group chuckling.....unfortunately at my expense:cryin2:
Skip from New Jersey

[ssmith]

... so is that why this thread is under computer questions? hahaha just wondering :posting:

OK Admin moved it so this does not make sense....I know I was not seeing things!!!

[grrr rex]

It seems to me that, as impossible as that appears, the damaged home was not grounded. You will probably have to buy a lightning rod to prevent future problems.

[asianthree]

On our one year we had a an outside inspection done the first thing he suggested was a whole house surge on the house..I called seco and had it added didn't even need to be at the house

[springfield]

As soon as we moved in last year, we had the whole house surge protector installed by our handy person and he had us buy these "cubes" for the sprinklers system, micro, and garage door openers. He said they were very sensitive to surges. You can buy them at Lowes or Home Dep. They plug into the outlet and then you plug the appliance into the cube. Several people in our neighborhood lost tvs during our last little thunder boomer light show. It is cheap insurance but won't help with direct hits.

[k2at]

I have a friend in the Villages who installed a whole house supressor from SECO and in this last storm he lost two garage door openers, one TV, one microwave and his stereo system. But, the whole house surge protector was still on and had not tripped during the storm. Go figure that!

[aljetmet]

So lightning rods seem to be a must. That's too much to lose at one time.
Real soory for that.
Insurance might work but if you put in a claim rates do go up for I think 3 to 5 years...

[westom]

But, the whole house surge protector was still on and had not tripped during the storm. Go figure that!
Any protector that 'tripped' was grossly undersized. A scam. Protection means you do not even know a surge existed. Protector must earth direct lightning strikes and remain functional.

No protector does protection. Not one. Nada. Too many always want to think of solutions in terms of a magic box. No box does surge protection. Either a 'whole house' protector connects as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground. Or it is just as useless as a cube protector.

Protection means no surge energy inside a house. Damage means that energy was inside hunting destructively for earth via appliances. Energy inside means a defective or compromised earth ground. Either it did not exist. Wires were more than single digit feet from the protector. Or some wire entered the building without first connecting to the only thing that does protection - single point earth ground.

Watering systems are easy to damage. A direct lighting strike one half mile down the street might enter a house. Hunting for earth ground. What is a best path to earth? Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing via the irrigation controller and buried connections. Damage because that energy was all but invited inside.

Protection is always and only defined by where even direct lightning strikes connect to earth. Either harmlessly outside via an earth ground that both meets and exceeds code. Or energy is hunting destructively inside.

If any wire inside any cable does not connect to earth (ie if the 'whole house' protector is not properly earthed), then damage can result. Damage means the investigation starts by inspecting the only item that does protection - single point earth ground.

[Shimpy]

Any protector that 'tripped' was grossly undersized. A scam. Protection means you do not even know a surge existed. Protector must earth direct lightning strikes and remain functional.

No protector does protection. Not one. Nada. Too many always want to think of solutions in terms of a magic box. No box does surge protection. Either a 'whole house' protector connects as short as possible (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground. Or it is just as useless as a cube protector.

Protection means no surge energy inside a house. Damage means that energy was inside hunting destructively for earth via appliances. Energy inside means a defective or compromised earth ground. Either it did not exist. Wires were more than single digit feet from the protector. Or some wire entered the building without first connecting to the only thing that does protection - single point earth ground.

Watering systems are easy to damage. A direct lighting strike one half mile down the street might enter a house. Hunting for earth ground. What is a best path to earth? Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing via the irrigation controller and buried connections. Damage because that energy was all but invited inside.

Protection is always and only defined by where even direct lightning strikes connect to earth. Either harmlessly outside via an earth ground that both meets and exceeds code. Or energy is hunting destructively inside.

If any wire inside any cable does not connect to earth (ie if the 'whole house' protector is not properly earthed), then damage can result. Damage means the investigation starts by inspecting the only item that does protection - single point earth ground.

You're last 3 paragraphs lost me. I'd like to learn about these things, but can't quite grasp it. Apparently Lightning seeks to go to the ground. Why doesn't it just go to the ground? I don't understand "incoming AC mains".

[pauld315]

Lightning protection is most likely needed to be installed. I have a whole house power surge protector but I doubt that would help if the house was hit by lightning.

[westom]

Apparently Lightning seeks to go to the ground. Why doesn't it just go to the ground? I don't understand "incoming AC mains". Lightning always goes to earth. Lightning strikes wires highest on a telephone pole. What is the shortest electrical connection to earth? Incoming on your AC electric wires. Through your home’s black (hot) wires that connect to every appliance. The out an appliance to earth via many other connections. For example, what is a shortest path to earth via the computer? Through your TV or computer network, and then to earth via a telephone or cable TV wire.

Incoming AC mains - the wire that connects your house to a nearby nuclear or coal burning power plant. The shortest connection to earth is down the street, through your appliances, to earth. Or the shortest connection to earth is harmlessly via a 'whole house' protector ... if that protector is properly earthed. An earthed 'whole house' protector means lightning need not find earth destructively via your air conditioner, stove, dishwasher, or lawn irrigation system.

Surge damage means a homeowner all but inviting a direct lighthing strike to go hunting for earth via his appliances.

[westom]

I have a whole house power surge protector but I doubt that would help if the house was hit by lightning. 'Whole house' protectors are designed for lightning protection. The typical lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So a minimally sufficient 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps.

Specifications associated with protectors are based upon the classic 8/20 microsecond waveform. 8/20 is the classic definition of a lightning strike. Effective protectors are for direct lightning strikes. Even specification numbers are based in parameters for lightning. Effective protectors make lightning as well as other lesser transients irrelevant. 'Whole house' protectors are rated to earth direct lightning strikes and remain functional.

If a 'whole house' protector and damage exist, then a most likely defect is earthing of that protector. Or any one wire wire inside some cable entering without proper earthing.

[Shimpy]

'Whole house' protectors are designed for lightning protection. The typical lightning strike is 20,000 amps. So a minimally sufficient 'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps.

Specifications associated with protectors are based upon the classic 8/20 microsecond waveform. 8/20 is the classic definition of a lightning strike. Effective protectors are for direct lightning strikes. Even specification numbers are based in parameters for lightning. Effective protectors make lightning as well as other lesser transients irrelevant. 'Whole house' protectors are rated to earth direct lightning strikes and remain functional.

If a 'whole house' protector and damage exist, then a most likely defect is earthing of that protector. Or any one wire wire inside some cable entering without proper earthing.

Where do a get a "whole house" protector"? Thanks, you have been very helpful.

[red tail]

got mine from progress energy.....$50 to install and $6 a month thereafter. they put it behind the outside meter. takes about 10 mins max !

[Bill-n-Brillo]

If you're in a SECO service area, they offer the same type of thing that mounts between the outside meter and the box. You have the option to purchase outright ($349 plus tax including free installation) or pay month-to-month ($5.95/month plus tax, $25 installation fee). See http://www.secoenergy.com/surge.html . Also, click on "Meter Treater Q&A" at the bottom of that page to open a pdf that contains some interesting info!!

Bill :)

[westom]

Where do a get a "whole house" protector"? More responsible companies manufacturer 'whole house' protectors by putting more money into the protector; less into profits. These companies include General Electric, ABB, Intermatic, Siemens, Leviton, Keison, and Square D. Most any electrical supply house provides them. Electronics stores do not since profits are so large selling ineffective protectors. An effective Cutler-Hammer (Eaton) solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

Due to advertising, this is 'difficult to grasp' if not repeated. No protector does protection. An effective protector always has a dedicated wire to connect short ('less than 10 foot') to single point earth ground. Only item that must always exist in every protection layer is earth ground.

Protector life expectancy is defined by its current rating - at least 50,000 amps. Protection during each surge is defined by quality of earthing. A protector is simple science. Earthing is the art.

Most of your attention should be inspecting or upgrading earthing. Even SECO typically will not inspect or upgrade what only you are responsible for. This need is routinely ignored due to what so many have been taught by advertising.

And finally, above is only a secondary protection system. Also important is to inspect (if possible) the primary protection system. Only one item defines that protection layer. A picture demonstrates what to inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Many responsible companies (some listed above) manufacturer 'whole house' protectors that must connect short to what does protection and that cost about $1 per protected appliance.

[Lightning]

For any Villager interested in the 259 years of lightning experience since Ben Franklin's discovery and the science from research may be interssted in enrolling in The Villages Lifelong Learning College course that can be found on page 54 of the Summer-Fall 2011 catalog. The purpose of this course is to help make you a savvy consumer by clearing up the many myths and misinformation about lightning.

The instructors are Villagers from the Study Group on Lightning who volunteer their time as there is no sales or marketing. The course is intended to educate the homeowner regarding his/her personal lightning risk, risk to your home, and risk to your appliances/electronics.

Our major resource is University of Florida Professor Martin Uman's book, "The Art and Science of Lightning Protection". Dr. Uman has been engaged in lightning research for four decades.

In our one hour program we address DIREC T LIGHTNING STRIKES and the possbile need for a lightning protection systems (LPS) commonly called lightning rods. How they work, do you need them, if so, how do you find a qualifed installer in a buyer beware market place?

We also address the more frequent but less severe INDIRECT LIGHTNING STRIKE that damages your appliances and electronics. We do not talk about the misnomer of "wholehouse" protection. We break it down to Primary Surge Protection on your electric meter or electric panel for hardwired equipment (A/C, etc) and Secondary Surge Protection for sensitive electronics like TVs, computers, garage door openers, mircowaves, refrigerators, telephone answering machines, games, irrigation system controllers, golf cart chargers, pool pumps, etc.

This course is also availble for free to Village clubs and organizations. It has been presented nearly 50 times in the last few years. Also see the POA web site for the back issues of the "Lightning Matters" columns that have published in the monthly POA Bulletins

[Villageshooter]

the facts are if you get a strike,, You are not going to stop it!,,, Rods,, arestors,, boxes you can buy a Marion Market,, NOTHING will stop lightning.... just ask ANY utility worker if they get lightning hits... Sure a spur strike (not a direct hit) will fry the arresstor and you will still have collateral damage. The easy way to avoid hits is when you leave for a prolonged time,, unplug the appliance and remove you antenna connections from your TV. The sprinkle system hits will come thru the ground wire (not the neutral) if you dont know the difference, you surely have NO IDEA of what you speak....

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Resurrecting a 10 month old thread.....

Bill :)

[CaptJohn]

Resurrecting a 10 month old thread.....

Bill :)

And a good time to do so! :laugh: