The so called "debt crisis."

[Guest]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to send a letter to all of my representatives saying, "unless you guys get this resolved, you will all be out of office."

[Guest]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to send a letter to all of my representatives saying, "unless you guys get this resolved, you will all be out of office."

There's an email going around stating that instead of our representatives putting fear into the elderly by saying that Social Security checks and Medicare will not be upheld , or the checks will not be mailed out.....they should HOLD UP ALL GOVERNMENT WORKERS checks instead. This will solve the problem very quickly.....in other words, the Senators, Congressmen, etc.

Hubby adds, "All representatives should only get one term in office......if that's not possible, just do not vote them back in".

[Guest]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to send a letter to all of my representatives saying, "unless you guys get this resolved, you will all be out of office."


Or we should start flooding their offices with phone calls. I plan on doing that today after wacthing the news last night. I already have the numbers as I have done this before with other issues.

Who would of ever thought this could happen in America?

[Guest]

.....

Hubby adds, "All representatives should only get one term in office......if that's not possible, just do not vote them back in".

Exactly. They've had their chance to work for their constituents instead of their party first, so put them back into the real world and let them go job hunting like the rest of us..

[Guest]

Exactly. They've had their chance to work for their constituents instead of their party first, so put them back into the real world and let them go job hunting like the rest of us..

With their generous pensions with minimal time served, there is no urgency for an employment search. Ahh pensions, another subject that gets scant attention but will have enormous consequences with our budget.

[Guest]

There's an email going around stating that instead of our representatives putting fear into the elderly by saying that Social Security checks and Medicare will not be upheld , or the checks will not be mailed out.....they should HOLD UP ALL GOVERNMENT WORKERS checks instead. This will solve the problem very quickly.....in other words, the Senators, Congressmen, etc.

Hubby adds, "All representatives should only get one term in office......if that's not possible, just do not vote them back in".

The senators and congressmen make up less than 1% or government workers, let's not penalize the other 99% for the incompetence of the less than 1%.

[Guest]

The senators and congressmen make up less than 1% or government workers, let's not penalize the other 99% for the incompetence of the less than 1%.

Penalization is problematic with the powers of their union. What percentage of unions are government "workers"

What percentage of incompetence can be found in the 99% ?

I think were mixing apples and oranges.

[Guest]

The senators and congressmen make up less than 1% or government workers, let's not penalize the other 99% for the incompetence of the less than 1%.

I meant the senators and congressmen.

[Guest]

Shouldn't this have gone to the political section

[Guest]

It's interesting to note that Obama keeps shaming the Congress for not compromising. That word was absent when he was stuffing down his health care bill.

[Guest]

Shouldn't this have gone to the political section

In a word - Yes...

[Guest]

It's interesting to note that Obama keeps shaming the Congress for not compromising. That word was absent when he was stuffing down his health care bill.

Good point.

[Guest]

Shouldn't this have gone to the political section

I thought about that, but doesn't this transcend politics. Isn't it at the core of the very financial stability of every person in the US, which includes The Villages.

I think politics is squaring off of Ds versus Rs and libs versus conservs. This topic is about what's going to happen to your stock portfolio, your retirement, your savings, your income. Just because politicians are the ones holding our well being in the balance, doesn't make it a discussion of politics. I'm talking about the human beings sitting in those chairs in Washington, those that we put there to look after us. Now, they are screwing with us instead. Not political.

I don't think the discussion of a, say corrupt sheriff, would be political just because he/she is a democrat or republican. Sticking it in the political forum will not make it go away.

[Guest]

Shouldn't this have gone to the political section

IMHO, not really and that's the problem. This should not be about politics but what's best for the economy as a whole. I work in a chemical plant that is going all out making over 250 million pounds of product per year. Going into billions of pounds of consumer goods per year. That being said we have the fewest employees per pound produced probably in the history of this 62 year old plant. I'm doing two jobs now but wait till I say I'm retiring! They'll be shocked! 18 month 5 days left! :D

[Guest]

The only reason I said this is I was told once that something was political when I thought it wasn't. If you don't want to play to your rules don't.

[Guest]

I meant the senators and congressmen.

I concur with both Jack and Senior.

Actually, the thought of an automatic wage freeze for elected officials who fail to properly perform their duties is intriguing.

Senators and congressmen are paid to represent (serve) their constituents in particular and the American people in general, not their political party or special interests. One can clearly observe the negative ramifications that have already been incurred to date by the actions/inactions on the matter. Is a viable resolution yet on the near horizon?

Back to the pay freeze concept...play what if. On what parameters would such a measure be developed and how would it be imposed or automatically triggered? It will be interesting to see responses, don't you think?
----
I am not sure that flooding the office of a federal level elected official with calls and letters would have the effect that one is looking to create. Doing so would only create more work for front line administrative support personnel w/out directly impacting the elected official personally.

I would think that flooding an elected official's email address would be a more effective method of delivering the intended message.

[Guest]

"Originally Posted by trichard View Post

It's interesting to note that Obama keeps shaming the Congress for not compromising. That word was absent when he was stuffing down his health care bill."




Comments like this belong in the political section.


.

[Guest]

..... Or we should start flooding their offices with phone calls. I plan on doing that today after wacthing the news last night. I already have the numbers as I have done this before with other issues. .....

To tippy's earlier point, here's an article from our local central OH newspaper this afternoon:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/07/26/debt-calls.html?sid=101&cmpid=aunews

It's only citing info re: some of Ohio's Representatives but I can't help but think all the other congressional-types across the country are experiencing the same scenarios.

Bill :)

[Guest]

It's interesting to note that Obama keeps shaming the Congress for not compromising. That word was absent when he was stuffing down his health care bill.

1. Off topic, as usual.
2. THEY decided to NOT be involved, they walked out.
3. Who said "not only no but HELL NO". Say compromise again.

[Guest]

The Haircut

One day a florist went to a barber for a haircut.

After the cut, he asked about his bill, and the barber replied, 'I cannot accept money from you , I'm doing community service this week.' The florist was pleased and left the shop.

When the barber went to open his shop the next morning, there was a 'thank you' card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door.

Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill, the barber again replied, 'I cannot accept money from you , I'm doing community service this week.' The cop was happy and left the shop.

The next morning when the barber went to open up, there was a 'thank you' card and a dozen donuts waiting for him at his door.

Then a Congressman came in for a haircut, and when he went to pay his bill, the barber again replied, 'I can not accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The Congressman was very happy and left the shop.

The next morning, when the barber went to open up, there were a dozen Congressmen lined up waiting for a free haircut.

And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between the citizens of our country and the politicians who run it.


BOTH POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS NEED TO BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON!

[Guest]

I thought about that, but doesn't this transcend politics. Isn't it at the core of the very financial stability of every person in the US, which includes The Villages.

I think politics is squaring off of Ds versus Rs and libs versus conservs. This topic is about what's going to happen to your stock portfolio, your retirement, your savings, your income. Just because politicians are the ones holding our well being in the balance, doesn't make it a discussion of politics. I'm talking about the human beings sitting in those chairs in Washington, those that we put there to look after us. Now, they are screwing with us instead. Not political.

I don't think the discussion of a, say corrupt sheriff, would be political just because he/she is a democrat or republican. Sticking it in the political forum will not make it go away.

Based on the performance of congress this topic ought to be relagted to a dark comedy thread

[Guest]

The only reason I said this is I was told once that something was political when I thought it wasn't. If you don't want to play to your rules don't.

I'm just a regular member now. If the admin wants to move this, he can do it with the click of a mouse.

[Guest]

Stop complaining about it here.
Go to www.whitehouse.gov and tell the President.

I did

I told him "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few or the one".



WHO SAID THAT!

[Guest]

Shouldn't this have gone to the political section

I've learned on this forum that any thread I start that will engender any kind of controversy and/or possibly upset anyone, for whatever reason, should be put in "political". It saves a lot of nonsense from those who have fragile sensibilities, as they stay away from "political" and are subsequently safe from people who have strong opinions.

I'm not sure of the rules with the new administration of this forum, but the participants haven't changed.

[Guest]

I know I for one am holding my breath that this mess doesn't push my finances off the cliff. I am hoping to move to TV this fall or next spring, but another major economic downturn will probably change all that. Both in my being able to sell my current home and in my being able to finance an new place to live. 401K can not take another hit like it did in 2008......those people on the Hill are playing Russian Roulette with the average Americans future. There's is ensured even if they get voted out. Their pension is golden and I believe they get it after one day on the job not 25 or 35 years like the rest of us. That is if we even have a pension other than what we saved.

Suzanne

[Guest]

:DI know I for one am holding my breath that this mess doesn't push my finances off the cliff. I am hoping to move to TV this fall or next spring, but another major economic downturn will probably change all that. Both in my being able to sell my current home and in my being able to finance an new place to live. 401K can not take another hit like it did in 2008......those people on the Hill are playing Russian Roulette with the average Americans future. There's is ensured even if they get voted out. Their pension is golden and I believe they get it after one day on the job not 25 or 35 years like the rest of us. That is if we even have a pension other than what we saved.

Suzanne


Don't worry about it and in fact you can capitalize on this standoff and boost your retirement fund. Make a big bet on which party you believe will blink first.:D

[Guest]

It's interesting to note that Obama keeps shaming the Congress for not compromising. That word was absent when he was stuffing down his health care bill.
I personally find this discussion to not only be political but also a bit biased. People are expressing their opinion that this discussion is not political, and that's fine... but it's only up until you or another poster points out one of the real and primary issues that has led us to the current "debt crisis." Then, all of a sudden... the truth becomes the political comments, providing of course it's coming from a fiscal conservative's point of view!

It's also funny how certain "high level" political individuals in Washington spoke out of one side of their mouths up until the tea party ended the two year, one party rule in the last election. Then suddenly... they start using the other side of their mouths, and for undoubtedly political posturing!

Trichard, you forgot to mention the stimulus, bailouts and many other problems that biasedly developed during the two year unobstructed one party rule, which in itself can be disasterous regardless of what party it might be that's in such absolute power! If not for those biased actions, we would NOT be having these discussions today about this particular issue because there would be no need to raise the debt ceiling... yet!

[Guest]

Stop complaining about it here.
Go to www.whitehouse.gov and tell the President.

I did

I told him "the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few or the one".



WHO SAID THAT!

I know! I know!! Do I get a "star" for answering correctly?!

[Guest]

A quick way to solve all this is to repeal the 17th Amendment. Let each state's legisature appoint the two senators. Then each state will have control of their senator. Once the 17th A was passed, all control and represetation was lost.

We can at the same time amendment the Constitution to add Cap, Cut and Balance. Two for the price of one. Way a deal.

[Guest]

A rap video on the debt ceiling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoS52fVtVQM&feature=player_embedded

[Guest]

A quick way to solve all this is to repeal the 17th Amendment. Let each state's legislature appoint the two senators. Then each state will have control of their senator. Once the 17th A was passed, all control and representation was lost........

I don't know much about how things would work out by repealing the 17th, but this paragraph on it certainly brings out good points:

"Originally, each Senator was elected by his state's legislature to represent that state in the Senate. This was intended to protect each state's power within the federation established by the Constitution by having its own direct representation in the Congress. While an unqualified candidate might win a popular-vote majority through demagoguery or superficial qualities, the legislature, which could deliberate on its choice, and whose members had been selected by their constituents and had experience in politics, were thought safe from such folly.

Finally, election by the legislature was expected to insulate Senators from the distraction of public campaigning for election or re-election, leaving them free to concentrate on the great business of the federal government. This last purpose was also served by the six-year term for Senators, compared to the two-year term for U.S. Representatives."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constit ution

[Guest]

A quick way to solve all this is to repeal the 17th Amendment. Let each state's legisature appoint the two senators. Then each state will have control of their senator. Once the 17th A was passed, all control and represetation was lost.

We can at the same time amendment the Constitution to add Cap, Cut and Balance. Two for the price of one. Way a deal.On the surface it sounds like a great solution but.... do we really want politicians appointing other politicians? Just saying!

[Guest]

There's an email going around stating that instead of our representatives putting fear into the elderly by saying that Social Security checks and Medicare will not be upheld , or the checks will not be mailed out.....they should HOLD UP ALL GOVERNMENT WORKERS checks instead. This will solve the problem very quickly.....in other words, the Senators, Congressmen, etc.

Hubby adds, "All representatives should only get one term in office......if that's not possible, just do not vote them back in".

I think our representatives should get two terms, one in office and one in jail.

[Guest]

taken from another thread.'''

We now add The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. What will be their budget, pay for top executives, how many new federal employees will they add? Will they need a new building? How many limos and aircraft will they need and what is their mission?

Tell us please, what they are going to do, that are not already responsibilities of existing Federal Agencies and Congressional Oversight Committees

From their website look at job openings and salaries at

http://www.consumerfinance.gov/jobs/

Yeah, we have a crisis in Washington. But I think it's more a problem of sanity than financial.

[Guest]

Exactly. They've had their chance to work for their constituents instead of their party first, so put them back into the real world and let them go job hunting like the rest of us..

If there were no "parties" and no lobbyists our representatives and senators might actually think about doing what's right for this country. These clowns only care about what's "best" for their pocketbooks and their party. If they managed their personal finances the way they are running this country they would have been bankrupt a long time ago. Oh, wait, I forgot. All they have to do is "raise their debt limit" and they will never have to worry about bankruptcy!!

[Guest]

I think our representatives should get two terms, one in office and one in jail.

Like Chicago mayors.

[Guest]

If they cannot come to an agreement, let Obama make the decision. He is the top dog in Washington. He is very intelligent and that makes him better equipped to make the final call than any of us. I know, Constitution, congress, democratic way, etc. etc.

If you have team A and team B of children arguing who is up to bat next in the playground and they cannot agree, the coach will step in and make the decision for them. Same rule should apply here.

The American people elected Obama and now the GOP wants to tie his hands from doing the peoples work.:throwtomatoes:

[Guest]

Like Chicago mayors.

Illinois Governors. Chicago Mayors have much more power.




.

[Guest]

Looks like cuts to Medicare, Social Security and VA benefits are coming! Thank You Tea Party!!:mad: :mad:

[Guest]

I really don't know why all Citizens are complaining about the Government's
shennanigans now !!!!
Everytime a Politician visits the Villages or some Mall or Town, everyone trips over each other in order to kiss the Politician !!!!
And months later everyone complains about the Politician !!!!!
Please, everyone wake up to reality !!!!!!!

[Guest]

Congress has passed two bills that would resolve this issue. Repeal of "Obama care" and "Cut, Cap and Balance" and the Senate will not even vote on them. All they do is throw stones at them and refuse to even vote them up or down. They refuse to go on record for anything. And where is the Senate plan? Zero, none, nada. Where is the presidents plan? Again none. Maybe both those bills are horrible, so modify them (the senate has that power), create there own, (the senate can get that sponsored in congress) but take a vote on them. Senators do something. Everyone wants to blame someone else vs come up with a solution.

Even if you hate both those solutions and think they are really bad, they are a solution. Right or wrong, congress has done something. The other two branches of the three legged stool have done nothing except take pot shots at those two bills.

[Guest]

I was asked to pass this letter, written by a 95 year old veteran, around to all who might read it. Please keep scrolling to bottom as there are some gaps between paragraphs.
He is highly respected in Hawaii. This was sent to me by a retired Army Colonel. Thanks.
p.s. There is a photo of him along many young servicemen of all colors, races, units but I don't think it will copy and paste..........








This venerable and much honored WW II vet is well known in Hawaii
for his seventy-plus years of service to patriotic organizations and causes all over the country. A humble man without a political bone in his body, he has never spoken out before about a government official, until now. He dictated this letter to a friend, signed it and mailed it to the president.




Dear President Obama,

My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year. People meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos'n Mate. Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western end of Pearl Harbor , allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.

One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man.

So here goes.

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.
You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:
" We're no longer a Christian nation"
" America is arrogant" - (Your wife even announced to the world," America is mean- spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching
that nonsense to 23 generations of our war dead buried all over the globe who died for no other reason than to free a whole lot of strangers from tyranny and hopelessness.)





I'd say shame on the both of you, but I don't think you like America, nor do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has given you. To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."

Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British? Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the Civil War? I hope you didn't mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers, husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand for freedom.

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination. You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get you elected.

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.

Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue . You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts , who was putting up a fight? You don't mind offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.

One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your country with your life, but you're the Commander-in-Chief now, son. Do your job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him. But if you're not in this fight to win, then get out. The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political strategy you're thinking of.

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever presented to any president.
You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy. That's not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul of who we are as Americans is our big fight now.
And I sure as h ell don't want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle...

Sincerely,
Harold B. Estes
Snopes confirms as true:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/haroldestes.asp


When a 95 year old hero of the "the Greatest Generation" stands up and speaks out like this, I think we owe it to him to send his words to as many Americans as we can.

[Guest]

This is a nice letter from Mr. Estes. Altough I'm not sure what it has to do with the current debt ceiling crisis since it's from 2009.

[Guest]

I tried to copy and paste his photo to no avail.

However, here is the snopes account , along with his photo ...........

Again, don't shoot the messenger. This was sent to me by a retired Army Colonel with whom I've been doing genealogy research over the years.......

[Guest]

This is a nice letter from Mr. Estes. Altough I'm not sure what it has to do with the current debt ceiling crisis since it's from 2009.

I agree with you. An 87 year old "cousin" of mine just sent it to me and asked me to pass it around. He's a proud retired 10th Mountain Division guy from World War II ; we've been working on our genealogy together.

I just read the snopes account as well. SORRY.

[Guest]

This was just sent by same retired 10th Mountain Division fellow....
It was uploaded by a doctor............we just watched entire video. Food for thought.
Little comment by Milton Friedman at the end.....but basically about where social security monies are going..............


If this doesn't **** you off nothing will

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fu6ok5ykyuQ

[Guest]

Dear President Obama,

My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year. People meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos'n Mate. Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western end of Pearl Harbor , allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.

One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man. So here goes.

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.
You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:
" We're no longer a Christian nation"
" America is arrogant" - (Your wife even announced to the world," America is mean- spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching that nonsense to 23 generations of our war dead buried all over the globe who died for no other reason than to free a whole lot of strangers from tyranny and hopelessness.)

I'd say shame on the both of you, but I don't think you like America, nor do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has given you. To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."

Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British? Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the Civil War? I hope you didn't mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers, husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand for freedom.

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination. You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get you elected.

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man. Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue . You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts , who was putting up a fight? You don't mind offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.

One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your country with your life, but you're the Commander-in-Chief now, son. Do your job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him. But if you're not in this fight to win, then get out. The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political strategy you're thinking of.

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever presented to any president. You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy. That's not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul of who we are as Americans is our big fight now.
And I sure as h ell don't want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle...

Sincerely,
Harold B. Estes
Snopes confirms as true:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/haroldestes.asp


When a 95 year old hero of the "the Greatest Generation" stands up and speaks out like this, I think we owe it to him to send his words to as many Americans as we can.The message that this gentleman wrote is right on and it does underlie, though not directly the problem behind the current debt crisis. Some may try to spin it to avoid the truth, but the truth will prevail dispite those that would strive to convince you otherwise, and do so to try and gain political or idealogical advantages... at the expense of us all.

At the same time I have to admit that blame for the problem is not just one sided. The right needs to accept some responsibility too! We can change them all, but I doubt that much would change in the long run. All in all, this message does unfortunately remind me of the old time TV show, "Mission Impossible!" Where's Mr. Phelps and his team when we need him?

[Guest]

The senators and congressmen make up less than 1% or government workers, let's not penalize the other 99% for the incompetence of the less than 1%.

I agree. I know military and city and state workers fall under "gov't workers".

[Guest]

After reading the letter above and yes I will suffer to maybe this is a good time for America or rather our leaders to burn us maybe then all this BS with the governing body will stop. I hate to see it happen but we have weathered worse.

[Guest]

I was asked to pass this letter, written by a 95 year old veteran, around to all who might read it. Please keep scrolling to bottom as there are some gaps between paragraphs.
He is highly respected in Hawaii. This was sent to me by a retired Army Colonel. Thanks.
p.s. There is a photo of him along many young servicemen of all colors, races, units but I don't think it will copy and paste..........








This venerable and much honored WW II vet is well known in Hawaii
for his seventy-plus years of service to patriotic organizations and causes all over the country. A humble man without a political bone in his body, he has never spoken out before about a government official, until now. He dictated this letter to a friend, signed it and mailed it to the president.




Dear President Obama,

My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year. People meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain wrinkle free and pretty much mentally alert.

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as a Master Chief Bos'n Mate. Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western end of Pearl Harbor , allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of service to my country.

One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and direct even to the head man.

So here goes.

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem hell bent not to grant me that wish.

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.
You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies like:
" We're no longer a Christian nation"
" America is arrogant" - (Your wife even announced to the world," America is mean- spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching
that nonsense to 23 generations of our war dead buried all over the globe who died for no other reason than to free a whole lot of strangers from tyranny and hopelessness.)





I'd say shame on the both of you, but I don't think you like America, nor do I see an ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has given you. To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man sitting in the White House.

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."

Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British? Or maybe the ideal that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the Civil War? I hope you didn't mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers, husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand for freedom.

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination. You know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get you elected.

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.

Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue . You were elected to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do what you did when that white cop used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts , who was putting up a fight? You don't mind offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend Muslim fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.

One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your country with your life, but you're the Commander-in-Chief now, son. Do your job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to complete the mission, give them to him. But if you're not in this fight to win, then get out. The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political strategy you're thinking of.

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever presented to any president.
You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy. That's not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul of who we are as Americans is our big fight now.
And I sure as h ell don't want to think my president is the enemy in this final battle...

Sincerely,
Harold B. Estes
Snopes confirms as true:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/haroldestes.asp


When a 95 year old hero of the "the Greatest Generation" stands up and speaks out like this, I think we owe it to him to send his words to as many Americans as we can.

A very interesting letter from one of our veterans. I read a little further about some of the references he makes to the President and the first lady. You can find the discussion on page 2 of http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/barackobama/a/harold_estes.htm

It does confirm the authenticity of the letter and provides you with the full text from which Mr Estes quoted.

[Guest]

Wow, this thread touched a nerve. I have a question. But it took awhile to get to this page so I made it a new thread.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40691

[Guest]

1. The debt ceiling has been raised 3 times under this administration without a problem. It is only a problem now because the House wants to use it as leverage to address broader budget issues. This "manufactured crisis" is a stupid game that places the entire world economy at risk. We have already done serious damage to our economy as well as our leverage in the world with this silly partisan debate.

2. We actually have a very real budget crisis involving the nation's debt as a percentage of GDP was well as an potentially explosive problem involving the concentration of wealth and capital in fewer hands.

First, the debt. No party has the high ground on this issue. We were spent into a hole by the last administration and the bursting of the real estate bubble with the resulting Wall Street crisis made a bad situation worse. This is not Obama's debt or Bush's debt - this is our debt and we are all going to have to accept pain to resolve it.

That will mean higher taxes. Hopefully, this will be in the form of simplifying the tax code and curtailing deductions/subsidies - plus, lowering rates for small business as well as encouraging business investment in this country (no more PO box overseas tax shelters). Still, if you insist on 1950's tax rates, you better insist on 1950's government programs -- otherwise, you need to accept the hypocrisy in your belief system.

And -- of course, lowering the debt will require significant reductions in spending. And - those who think that entitlements and the military will not be touched have spent a day too long in Fantasyland. That is where most money is spent.

My own belief system leans me to look for discretionary spending cuts that weigh more heavily on those who can afford it. I think it is a mistake to cut spending in education (unless you like living in the third world) and in those government programs that protect our health plus those programs that root out fraud and abuse.

Those value judgment choices need to be made by folks who take governance seriously and who know the fine art of compromise and horse-trading. Ideologs need not apply. They will not help us get out of this royal mess we are in.

Lastly, the increasing gap between rich and poor needs to be addressed and soon. It is a social powder keg. Moreover, ours is a consumer-based economy. Want to get the economy moving again, shift some money to folks who will spend it instead of those who want to move more of their portfolio to gold. I'm not talking about handouts to the poor - I am talking incentives to move capital back into the system and into the hands of folks who will spread it around.

I am not a left-wing fanatic (well, not all of the time) - but, if you value your freedom and liberty you need to understand that you can't always keep what you want (Rollings Stones reference here). It is a lesson learned the hard way in France, Russia, and over and over in poorer countries.

Lesson over - class dismissed. Sorry for any hurt feelings.

Cheers!
Harbor

[Guest]

1. The debt ceiling has been raised 3 times under this administration without a problem. It is only a problem now because the House wants to use it as leverage to address broader budget issues. This "manufactured crisis" is a stupid game that places the entire world economy at risk. We have already done serious damage to our economy as well as our leverage in the world with this silly partisan debate.

2. We actually have a very real budget crisis involving the nation's debt as a percentage of GDP was well as an potentially explosive problem involving the concentration of wealth and capital in fewer hands.

First, the debt. No party has the high ground on this issue. We were spent into a hole by the last administration and the bursting of the real estate bubble with the resulting Wall Street crisis made a bad situation worse. This is not Obama's debt or Bush's debt - this is our debt and we are all going to have to accept pain to resolve it.

That will mean higher taxes. Hopefully, this will be in the form of simplifying the tax code and curtailing deductions/subsidies - plus, lowering rates for small business as well as encouraging business investment in this country (no more PO box overseas tax shelters). Still, if you insist on 1950's tax rates, you better insist on 1950's government programs -- otherwise, you need to accept the hypocrisy in your belief system.

And -- of course, lowering the debt will require significant reductions in spending. And - those who think that entitlements and the military will not be touched have spent a day too long in Fantasyland. That is where most money is spent.

My own belief system leans me to look for discretionary spending cuts that weigh more heavily on those who can afford it. I think it is a mistake to cut spending in education (unless you like living in the third world) and in those government programs that protect our health plus those programs that root out fraud and abuse.

Those value judgment choices need to be made by folks who take governance seriously and who know the fine art of compromise and horse-trading. Ideologs need not apply. They will not help us get out of this royal mess we are in.

Lastly, the increasing gap between rich and poor needs to be addressed and soon. It is a social powder keg. Moreover, ours is a consumer-based economy. Want to get the economy moving again, shift some money to folks who will spend it instead of those who want to move more of their portfolio to gold. I'm not talking about handouts to the poor - I am talking incentives to move capital back into the system and into the hands of folks who will spread it around.

I am not a left-wing fanatic (well, not all of the time) - but, if you value your freedom and liberty you need to understand that you can't always keep what you want (Rollings Stones reference here). It is a lesson learned the hard way in France, Russia, and over and over in poorer countries.

Lesson over - class dismissed. Sorry for any hurt feelings.

Cheers!
Harbor

:BigApplause: well said!
Suzanne

[Guest]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to send a letter to all of my representatives saying, "unless you guys get this resolved, you will all be out of office."

If you think the current Debt Crisis is idiotic check out the following video to confirm just how stupid the jerks we have sent to Congress really are:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/coins-costing-taxpayers-14076274

[Guest]

We agree with you completely. What are the phone numbers?

[Guest]

At least he isn't trying to take our Social Security checks and putting us on welfare.

[Guest]

I personally am amused that anybody is even impressed with the current round of "government shutdown" malarky.
It is an annual political event. Same arm waving. Same brinksmanship.
Same stupid players in Washington.
Same silent majority that stands idly by an let it happen each year.

It should be renamed the groundhog budget process.

btk

[Guest]

I personally am amused that anybody is even impressed with the current round of "government shutdown" malarky.
It is an annual political event. Same arm waving. Same brinksmanship.
Same stupid players in Washington.
Same silent majority that stands idly by an let it happen each year.

It should be renamed the groundhog budget process.

btk

If we default - I hope you have your nest-egg in fed bonds or gold. Oh, and be well armed as who knows the chaos that will result. This is not a government shutdown -- this is really scary stuff.

[Guest]

1. The debt ceiling has been raised 3 times under this administration without a problem. It is only a problem now because the House wants to use it as leverage to address broader budget issues. This "manufactured crisis" is a stupid game that places the entire world economy at risk. We have already done serious damage to our economy as well as our leverage in the world with this silly partisan debate.

2. We actually have a very real budget crisis involving the nation's debt as a percentage of GDP was well as an potentially explosive problem involving the concentration of wealth and capital in fewer hands.

First, the debt. No party has the high ground on this issue. We were spent into a hole by the last administration and the bursting of the real estate bubble with the resulting Wall Street crisis made a bad situation worse. This is not Obama's debt or Bush's debt - this is our debt and we are all going to have to accept pain to resolve it.

That will mean higher taxes. Hopefully, this will be in the form of simplifying the tax code and curtailing deductions/subsidies - plus, lowering rates for small business as well as encouraging business investment in this country (no more PO box overseas tax shelters). Still, if you insist on 1950's tax rates, you better insist on 1950's government programs -- otherwise, you need to accept the hypocrisy in your belief system.

And -- of course, lowering the debt will require significant reductions in spending. And - those who think that entitlements and the military will not be touched have spent a day too long in Fantasyland. That is where most money is spent.

My own belief system leans me to look for discretionary spending cuts that weigh more heavily on those who can afford it. I think it is a mistake to cut spending in education (unless you like living in the third world) and in those government programs that protect our health plus those programs that root out fraud and abuse.

Those value judgment choices need to be made by folks who take governance seriously and who know the fine art of compromise and horse-trading. Ideologs need not apply. They will not help us get out of this royal mess we are in.

Lastly, the increasing gap between rich and poor needs to be addressed and soon. It is a social powder keg. Moreover, ours is a consumer-based economy. Want to get the economy moving again, shift some money to folks who will spend it instead of those who want to move more of their portfolio to gold. I'm not talking about handouts to the poor - I am talking incentives to move capital back into the system and into the hands of folks who will spread it around.

I am not a left-wing fanatic (well, not all of the time) - but, if you value your freedom and liberty you need to understand that you can't always keep what you want (Rollings Stones reference here). It is a lesson learned the hard way in France, Russia, and over and over in poorer countries.

Lesson over - class dismissed. Sorry for any hurt feelings.

Cheers!
Harbor

Such a total lack of understand of our free market system and the root cause of our problems. We have the highest standard of living in the world, only 50% of our people pay taxes and we need more wealth distribution. Very sad thinking. It actually scares me that you vote.

[Guest]

Such a total lack of understand of our free market system and the root cause of our problems. We have the highest standard of living in the world, only 50% of our people pay taxes and we need more wealth distribution. Very sad thinking. It actually scares me that you vote.

Amen!!!

[Guest]

Such a total lack of understand of our free market system and the root cause of our problems. We have the highest standard of living in the world, only 50% of our people pay taxes and we need more wealth distribution. Very sad thinking. It actually scares me that you vote.

Sorry to offer up facts instead of offensive rhetoric, but our country does not have the highest standard of living in the world - unless "the world" is limited to that space between your ears. See: http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/

Since you suggest that the misinformed (aka me) should not vote - please help the rest of us by shredding your voting card.

BTW - Please don't get too huffy regarding my tone as you invited it when you elected to describe my thinking as "sad" and that it scares you that I vote.

I admire honest informed debate. I certainly don't profess to have all the answers. Still, ignorant opinions get quite tedious. You might consider researching before hitting the keyboard again and dazzling us with your misinformation.

Again, if you think exceeding the debt ceiling is a grand idea - please invest in edgy tech stocks. They were made for you! Really!

Harbor

[Guest]

...I thought about that, but doesn't this transcend politics. Isn't it at the core of the very financial stability of every person in the US, which includes The Villages....Just in case you haven't noticed, the stock market is down 400 points in just the last four days. Most think that it'll take another dive tomorrow. That in spite of generally record earnings for most companies.

How much has this childish bickering cost each of you. It's cost me quite a bit and I'm not at all happy.

The country should be equally upset over how the uncertainty being introduced by our politicians is impacting our economy as a whole. There were several articles in today's Wall Street Journal about companies holding back on hiring because of the uncertain economic climate, or if they do hire just hire some temps for a few weeks.

There were two other articles having to do with those companies that are hiring having to hire foreign nationals and get them visas or actually build plants overseas because they can't get qualified people in the U.S. The jobs were technical. Microsoft was one company that was hiring 4,500 people, but had to go elsewhere because of the absence of capable and educated people here.

Another article noted that this year 17,000 graduates with Phd degrees in math, science and engineering left the U.S. for foreign countries after getting their education here. In response, one of our erstwhile Senators, Chuck Grassley of Iowa, said "...just because they're highly educated, that shouldn't be a shortcut for citizenship." Maybe Grassley ought to talk to the companies who can't find qualified talent and hire people offshore as the result. These are the guys we have running our government?

I can tell you for sure that some of the most popular computer products being sold today--I'm typing this posting on one--are all made in China. I placed an order for this computer about two months ago and it was manufactured in Shanghai and shipped to my door in The Villages in five days! And it's one of the highest rated computers available today.

No wonder our economy is a laggard. Our government spends virtually all their time politicizing every single issue and accomplishes nothing to improve the education of our kids and making a fertile environment for companies to invest in this country.

Do they think long-term? Juast consider what they're talking about doing with the debt ceiling legislation they're arguing about now. The Republicans want to make it good for only six months so they can start the argument again during the election campaign.

Couldn't they be doing something more productive for the country? Shouldn't they be doing something more productive?

[Guest]

If we default - I hope you have your nest-egg in fed bonds or gold....Fed bonds? You must be kidding. If we default or our debt rating is downgraded, that will result in a higher interest rate on all new bonds issued, driving the value of the bonds outstanding to the basement. No, fed bonds is one of the last places you want to have your money in case of a default or downgrade.

[Guest]

Yes, now would be the perfect time to have a great leader. Guess we'll have to wait for November 2012.

[Guest]

Fed bonds? You must be kidding. If we default or our debt rating is downgraded, that will result in a higher interest rate on all new bonds issued, driving the value of the bonds outstanding to the basement. No, fed bonds is one of the last places you want to have your money in case of a default or downgrade.

I'm sure you are right. My perspective is from a Fed invested in the TSP "G" fund. I think I'm covered no matter what happens with this foolishness.

See--
http://blogs.federaltimes.com/federal-money/tag/g-fund/

I apologize if I provided incorrect advice. Weltanschauung is everything.

Harbor