Why is this happening

[Guest]

In 1913 the Federal Reserve was formed, in 1932 appx the face of the dollar bill was changed implyng a one order world . In 1950 Paul Warburg stated that there will be a one government world in 1992 GB senior stated that a one order world will come about. You now have the common currency in Europe and you can travel from country to country with out a border crossing check. The climate change propaganda spans all borders with the internet there are no borders. Now you have the tear down of the greatest nation of modern time with monitary system being torn apart which will bring the country to its knees . All this is leading to the one govenment world. Control the money you contrl the world. I am beginning to beleive that all this has been planned for 100 hundred years. Can any one change or stop it not a chance. This isnt because of any party, but watsh closely this will happen in our life time,so get use to it and be willing to adpapt because it is going to happen. Call me nuts thats ok but look deeper for yourself and see if that is not where we are headed. Please no replies just do the math as they say.

[Guest]

I'll never forget when Bush senior was giving a speech on television and he mentioned a one world order. I screamed to my wife, "Did I just hear that right, One World Order?"

The Progressives(socialists) have had that on their grocery list for a long time. Don't forget that they also want to eliminate God from our society, too.

[Guest]

I'll never forget when Bush senior was giving a speech on television and he mentioned a one world order. I screamed to my wife, "Did I just hear that right, One World Order?"

The Progressives(socialists) have had that on their grocery list for a long time. Don't forget that they also want to eliminate God from our society, too.

Now that is funny.... the Dems want to eliminate God. Actually this Democrat would like to see the constitution mandate for separation of church and state upheld. You can pray to any GOD you want.....

[Guest]

Now that is funny.... the Dems want to eliminate God. Actually this Democrat would like to see the constitution mandate for separation of church and state upheld. You can pray to any GOD you want.....
It is in there somewhere. You don't see any state-run churches do you? Sheeeesh.

[Guest]

My beginning of this is not saying of dem or rep it is just where we are headed
the powers to be are not of dems or rep. A good website to look at is www.understandthetimes.org What this is and you will laugh is the antichrist. We will end up and are close to a cashless society. Start reading this because I don't think we can change it. By the way watch China very closly and watch Europe after all they have been through this and China is only begun. According to the Myan 2012 will be an end of an age and yes it will be. The US dollar will no longer rign supeme. Our inflation will go up appx. 20 30 percent over night watch and see if I'm wrong.

[Guest]

In 1913 the Federal Reserve was formed, in 1932 appx the face of the dollar bill was changed implyng a one order world . In 1950 Paul Warburg stated that there will be a one government world in 1992 GB senior stated that a one order world will come about. You now have the common currency in Europe and you can travel from country to country with out a border crossing check. The climate change propaganda spans all borders with the internet there are no borders. Now you have the tear down of the greatest nation of modern time with monitary system being torn apart which will bring the country to its knees . All this is leading to the one govenment world. Control the money you contrl the world. I am beginning to beleive that all this has been planned for 100 hundred years. Can any one change or stop it not a chance. This isnt because of any party, but watsh closely this will happen in our life time,so get use to it and be willing to adpapt because it is going to happen. Call me nuts thats ok but look deeper for yourself and see if that is not where we are headed. Please no replies just do the math as they say.Yours is an interesting and alarming observation. It's quite clear that with the erasure of national borders and the development of worldwide economies, that old saying "follow the money" is quite apropos.

That saying that came from the movie, All The President's Men, and seemingly may have been more predictive than we thought at the time. When you think about how borders have come down and economies have essentially merged, it would be hard to argue that those countries and those businesses that control a lion's share of the world capital won't be predominant.

Right now the U.S. is the world's largest economy, but we are a long way from controlling most of the world's capital. In the most recent listing, only 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world are headquartered in the United States. In fact, only 10 of the 25 biggest companies in the world are U.S.-based. More alarmingly are which companies they are and what businesses they're in.
A high percentage of the goods sold by the largest company in the world, WalMart, are produced outside the U.S. That is, money spent by U.S. consumers quickly moves offshore to fuel the continued growth of other economies.

Three of the world's ten largest are U.S.-based oil companies (Exxon, Chevron and Conoco Phillips), which obtain most of their crude oil outside the U.S. and do a high percentage of their refining in foreign countries. Again, money paid by U.S. consumers to purchase gas and oil from these companies quickly moves outside the U.S. to fuel foreign economic development.

Three of our largest companies are financial firms, Fannie Mae, Berkshire Hathaway and the Bank of America. Two of the three are in serious financial trouble and will have diffiiculty surviving another recession without an additional government bailout.

Only three of the largest U.S. companies are manufacturing firms, GE, General Motors and Ford (numbers 16, 20 and 25). The U.S. government still owns a sizable interest in GM after having to save it from liquidation with a huge injection of equity. GM was the world's largest company as recently as 20 years ago.
If we were to compare the current list of the "world's largest" to the same list 20-30 years ago, the number of U.S. companies listed would have been decidedly greater.

The economies of several other countries in the world are growing at a rate that far outpaces the U.S. and have been for a number of years. The result is a massive outflow of capital from the U.S. into other countries and economies. That capital flow will continue to fuel foreign economic growth and inhibit ours.

Of course, after the events of the last few months, we now all know that the U.S. has been operating for a number of years using huge amounts of borrowed money. At the same time, the growth of our economy has slowed to a near standstill and the number of our citizens who cannot find work is in the double digit percentages.

Most importantly, it's become very clear that those governing the U.S. are unwilling, incapable or incompetent to reverse any of these trends. This is not a pretty picture.

Follow the money.

[Guest]

NAFTA was one of the worst peices of legislature that has hit this country in decades. With the removal of durable good manufacturing out of this country we have been weakened to the point that we can not and should not go to war with any country.We wouldnt be able to supply our troops. If the government of the US would give manufacturing companies total tax free incentives I still don't think we could get them to come back here. That would be the only saving grace that we have.Bring back manufacturing and put people back to work. The powers that control the money do not want this to happen. They know that the only way a One Government World is going to happen is to bring the US to its knees, and trust me this is going to happen very very shortly. I wonder what is going to happen with all the written contracts with mortgages etc. as to where that will end. Recently I thought of a reverse mortgage on my house but if a government back lender calls the mortgage in and they where will you be heck they could do it on my current mortgage,don't say they can't. If it gets to the point to survive you may become delinquint on your payments. cotrol is the conquest of the powers in place. And it is not our federal government . Politics dosen't inter into any of this.

[Guest]

Now that is funny.... the Dems want to eliminate God. Actually this Democrat would like to see the constitution mandate for separation of church and state upheld. You can pray to any GOD you want.....

There is no Constitutional mandate for a separation of Church and State.

This false idea was gleaned from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson and used to this day by atheists and statists who want no higher devotion by the citizenry than devotion to the State.

The Constitution merely forbids a State Religion such as The Church Of England.

[Guest]

Now that is funny.... the Dems want to eliminate God. Actually this Democrat would like to see the constitution mandate for separation of church and state upheld. You can pray to any GOD you want.....

read the Constitution. There is no mandate for separation of church and state.

[Guest]

How did church and state get into this

[Guest]

It is in there somewhere. You don't see any state-run churches do you? Sheeeesh.

No there are not any state run churches but as a child I was forced to read from the bible in a public school. Problem with that, before you get your shorts in a twist, was Catholic child not Catholic bible. It appears the Republican party wants to reintroduce religion in the schools and in the government. If it is your religion you are all for it. If it's not....,

[Guest]

No there are not any state run churches but as a child I was forced to read from the bible in a public school. Problem with that, before you get your shorts in a twist, was Catholic child not Catholic bible. It appears the Republican party wants to reintroduce religion in the schools and in the government. If it is your religion you are all for it. If it's not....,


".... It appears the Republican party wants to reintroduce religion in the schools and in the government"

Can you allow some validity to this charge ? Links, proposals, etc. ?

Praying to your God for guidance, strength and inspiration is certainly not injecting God into politics. Letting folks know that you do that does not insist that you do the same, and keeping quiet about it is hiding how you feel.

You certainly are not against an elected official praying are you ? Or must he/she do it under cover of night ?

[Guest]

No there are not any state run churches but as a child I was forced to read from the bible in a public school. Problem with that, before you get your shorts in a twist, was Catholic child not Catholic bible. It appears the Republican party wants to reintroduce religion in the schools and in the government. If it is your religion you are all for it. If it's not....,

I never heard of such a thing. Gross exaggeration come to mind. But I do know that progressives want their "god" Central Government, in every school and everybody's lives.

[Guest]

If there is no government religion why is there a Chaplain of the Senate? Who decides what favor he/she will be?

[Guest]

...... It appears the Republican party wants to reintroduce religion in the schools and in the government. If it is your religion you are all for it. If it's not....,

Huh?????? It's quite clear that the founding fathers knew and affirmed in 1774 that they were smart enough to know that God--the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob--is greater and mightier than themselves. The daily prayer tradition in the House of Representatives, U.S. Congress continues to this very day starting with this:

First Prayer of the Continental Congress, 1774
The Prayer in the First Congress, A.D. 1774 The Prayer in the First Congress, A.D. 1774

O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!

Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

Amen.

Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.

http://chaplain.house.gov/archive/index.html

AND: Before the Administrator deletes this for being "off topic", I would remind us all that the title of this thread asks: "Why is this happening?". Another poster responded with the answer that leaders being godless is a big part of the reason our nation is crumbling. The info I am posting above affirms that honoring and deferring to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has been officially a part of this nation's fabric since at least 1774.

I would hope that this board does not censor out mention of something so factual, historic and non-partisan as this!

[Guest]

".... It appears the Republican party wants to reintroduce religion in the schools and in the government"

Can you allow some validity to this charge ? Links, proposals, etc. ?

Praying to your God for guidance, strength and inspiration is certainly not injecting God into politics. Letting folks know that you do that does not insist that you do the same, and keeping quiet about it is hiding how you feel.

You certainly are not against an elected official praying are you ? Or must he/she do it under cover of night ?

See your shorts are in a twist..... This post was in response to villagesgolfer who said the Dems were trying to remove GOD. I don't think you asked for proof on that one.

[Guest]

See your shorts are in a twist..... This post was in response to villagesgolfer who said the Dems were trying to remove GOD. I don't think you asked for proof on that one.

Sorry...I didnt see the word "Democrats" or "Dems".....saw "socialists" etc ! But no party mention but I may have missed it.

That aside, why did you make your statement which is NOT TRUE ?

This is where we are.....R's say something unfair about D's. D's get upset and saysomething about R's. None of it true, but it is ok, right ?

So, you interpet the remark concerning "socialists" (unless I missed the D reference all together) to refer to D's. That makes it ok for you to make untrue statements about R's.

I did not ignore what was said...just did not get a party inference from it.

[Guest]

See your shorts are in a twist..... This post was in response to villagesgolfer who said the Dems were trying to remove GOD. I don't think you asked for proof on that one.

Show me where I said "Dems"? Unless you think all democrats are progressive socialists. Seems your just looking for a R vs. D fight.chilout

[Guest]

The current administration both Ds and Rs need to read the Consitution, referring to separation from Church and State. No where does the Consitution say anything like that.

It only says, the GOVERNMENT will NOT establish a religion.

Get a copy and read that important little piece of paper.

[Guest]

I never heard of such a thing. Gross exaggeration come to mind. But I do know that progressives want their "god" Central Government, in every school and everybody's lives.

You are a laugh a minute....have you noticed the number of republican held states trying to stop the law of the land Row bs Wade? How about DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell. You probably think it was ok for Tiller to be gunned down in church.

Now how dare you question my experience!!! In the 4th grade, in New Jersey I was required to read from the bible, when it was my turn, and to recite the Lord's prayer. We had to bring in a Catholic bible. As there were only 4 or 5 of us Catholics the overall experience defines my stance on the issue to this day.

[Guest]

The current administration both Ds and Rs need to read the Consitution, referring to separation from Church and State. No where does the Consitution say anything like that.

It only says, the GOVERNMENT will NOT establish a religion.

Get a copy and read that important little piece of paper.

I have read that document but we both know what reality is.... We are supposed to have freedom of religion. But some want to impose their beliefs on us......

And before you call another name I would think twice.

[Guest]

I have read that document but we both know what reality is.... We are supposed to have freedom of religion. But some want to impose their beliefs on us......

And before you call another name I would think twice.

"But some want to impose their beliefs on us......"


WHO is doing this ? Please...you keep ignoring when asked where you get this information and keep making the same accusations...WHO..in what manner

[Guest]

You are a laugh a minute....have you noticed the number of republican held states trying to stop the law of the land Row bs Wade? How about DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell. You probably think it was ok for Tiller to be gunned down in church.

Now how dare you question my experience!!! In the 4th grade, in New Jersey I was required to read from the bible, when it was my turn, and to recite the Lord's prayer. We had to bring in a Catholic bible. As there were only 4 or 5 of us Catholics the overall experience defines my stance on the issue to this day.

So, you think it should be the law of the land to kill babies in the name of birth control? How sick is that?

[Guest]

I have read that document but we both know what reality is.... We are supposed to have freedom of religion. But some want to impose their beliefs on us......

And before you call another name I would think twice.

Who said that? It is not in our constitution. You didn't make that up, did you?

[Guest]

You are a laugh a minute....have you noticed the number of republican held states trying to stop the law of the land Row bs Wade?
...trying to connect this comment to the discussion of seperation of church and state? Not to mention that someone does not have to be a republican or a christian to hold the the belief that abortion is wrong. My Muslim, democrat, physician also believes it is VERY wrong and that Row v Wade should be overturned...:shrug:

[Guest]

...trying to connect this comment to the discussion of seperation of church and state? Not to mention that someone does not have to be a republican or a christian to hold the the belief that abortion is wrong. My Muslim, democrat, physician also believes it is VERY wrong and that Row v Wade should be overturned...:shrug:

There are many many Democrats of ALL religions who feel it is killing...depends on when you think life begins. This is NOT a religious issue except in the minds of a few

[Guest]

There are many many Democrats of ALL religions who feel it is killing...depends on when you think life begins. Doesn't matter when any particular person thinks that life begins. Here's the deal-female's egg(living cells with distinct DNA) meet male's sperm (living cells with distinct but different DNA). The merge produces other living cells with distinct DNA that is different from either one of the original. Note-nothing has died here in this process, hence the new organism is alive too, hence LIFE! Not to mention that it is growing at a far greater pace than the ovary or the sperm. The question is not when life begins...The question is-who has the right to stop these living cells from living... [/QUOTE]This is NOT a religious issue except in the minds of a few[/QUOTE]
My point exactly!

[Guest]

There are many many Democrats of ALL religions who feel it is killing...depends on when you think life begins. Doesn't matter when any particular person thinks that life begins. Here's the deal-female's egg(living cells with distinct DNA) meet male's sperm (living cells with distinct but different DNA). The merge produces other living cells with distinct DNA that is different from either one of the original. Note-nothing has died here in this process, hence the new organism is alive too, hence LIFE! The question is not when life begins...The question is-who has the right to stop these living cells from living... Also Originally posted by Bucco "This is NOT a religious issue except in the minds of a few" My point exactly!

[Guest]

So, you think it should be the law of the land to kill babies in the name of birth control? How sick is that?

I have never had nor has anyone in my family had an abortion...those are my beliefs. However, unlike you I don't impose them on else. So thanks for making my point.

[Guest]

Who said that? It is not in our constitution. You didn't make that up, did you?

OMG you mean we don't have freedom of religion? I must be reading the wrong constitution.

[Guest]

Doesn't matter when any particular person thinks that life begins. Here's the deal-female's egg(living cells with distinct DNA) meet male's sperm (living cells with distinct but different DNA). The merge produces other living cells with distinct DNA that is different from either one of the original. Note-nothing has died here in this process, hence the new organism is alive too, hence LIFE! The question is not when life begins...The question is-who has the right to stop these living cells from living... Also Originally posted by Bucco "This is NOT a religious issue except in the minds of a few" My point exactly!

With respect to your views the Jewish religion doesn't believe that life begins at conception. I learned that while working at Rose Medical Center in Denver. I talked to my priest about doing the lab work for these cases.

[Guest]

Doesn't matter when any particular person thinks that life begins. Here's the deal-female's egg(living cells with distinct DNA) meet male's sperm (living cells with distinct but different DNA). The merge produces other living cells with distinct DNA that is different from either one of the original. Note-nothing has died here in this process, hence the new organism is alive too, hence LIFE! The question is not when life begins...The question is-who has the right to stop these living cells from living... Also Originally posted by Bucco "This is NOT a religious issue except in the minds of a few" My point exactly!

So, you think it should be the law of the land to kill babies in the name of birth control? How sick is that?

I noticed no response to the Tiller question....so you agree that this killing was ok?

[Guest]

OMG you mean we don't have freedom of religion? I must be reading the wrong constitution.

we have freedom of religion not freedom from religion.

[Guest]

God is very important to our republic. It is God from whom we obtain our inalienable rights. It is up to the government to protect and ensure that we retain those inalienable rights.

If we were to accept the atheist point of view there is no God then we would be eliminating the guarantor of our rights. This would mean that government is the source of our rights and that they would be free to take them away or give them at will.

I'll go with God.

[Guest]

I noticed no response to the Tiller question....so you agree that this killing was ok?

Tis very certain the desire of life prolongs it. ~Lord Byron

[Guest]

It is in there somewhere. You don't see any state-run churches do you? Sheeeesh.

The problem is that we have Church run States

[Guest]

I noticed no response to the Tiller question....so you agree that this killing was ok?

Absolutely not! as I said, the question is who has the right to take the life of a living thing or being! But to murder him? No...two wrongs never make a right. Do i think that by performing abortions that he was performing the act of murder? Absolutely! The man was a physician, he knew that was a life he was stopping.
In regards to what any particular Jewish medical professional or medical facility believes about when life begins, apparently they are wrong...

[Guest]

The problem is that we have Church run States

Now that's just utter nonsense. Back that up.

[Guest]

I have a question for all you atheist. How can you not believe in something unless you believe that it actually exists, therefore there must be something to believe in order for you not to believe.

cocogal - what name was used or did you get called?

[Guest]

God is very important to our republic. It is God from whom we obtain our inalienable rights. It is up to the government to protect and ensure that we retain those inalienable rights.

If we were to accept the atheist point of view there is no God then we would be eliminating the guarantor of our rights. This would mean that government is the source of our rights and that they would be free to take them away or give them at will.

I'll go with God.
:BigApplause:

[Guest]

I am amazed how far off this blog got from my original post, This could be deemed government in action. This is really wild. I guess I missed something

[Guest]

God is very important to our republic. It is God from whom we obtain our inalienable rights. It is up to the government to protect and ensure that we retain those inalienable rights.

If we were to accept the atheist point of view there is no God then we would be eliminating the guarantor of our rights. This would mean that government is the source of our rights and that they would be free to take them away or give them at will.

I'll go with God.

The thread title is "Why is this happening?". People are responding to that question. It's not "off topic" to discuss how our elected "leaders" have strayed far from admitting that it is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who is the giver and guarantor of our inalienable right to freedom, as the signers of the Declaration and Lincoln clearly affirmed:

"Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore.

Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battlefield; and the country, rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom.

No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy.

It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens.

And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union."

--Abraham Lincoln, 1863


http://www.historyplace.com/lincoln/thanks.htm

[Guest]

Tis very certain the desire of life prolongs it. ~Lord Byron

So you do believe the killing of Tiller was justified. I will never understand that logic.

[Guest]

we have freedom of religion not freedom from religion.

This confuses me.. I am mandated to have a religion? By what law?

[Guest]

This confuses me.. I am mandated to have a religion? By what law?

No mandates. Just the freedom to choose who or what you want to worship. Basically, they crossed the pond to escape the state run churches.

[Guest]

This confuses me.. I am mandated to have a religion? By what law?

the government is not allowed to mandate a religion nor is it allowed to interfere with the practice thereof.

[Guest]

the government is not allowed to mandate a religion nor is it allowed to interfere with the practice thereof.

There are limits on the practice of religion....unlike the 50s, when I had to read from the bible, school prayer is banned. The 10 commandments in a courtroom....banned.

[Guest]

There are limits on the practice of religion....unlike the 50s, when I had to read from the bible, school prayer is banned. The 10 commandments in a courtroom....banned.

Yea, and the country is better place now.chilout

[Guest]

villagegolfer, by a better place you mean the rise is high school drop outs, the increase in teenage PG, the easy of obtaining drugs, the high debt ratio to GDP of the US of A, the drop in the Stock Market. I guess that you are right, we are in a better place.

[Guest]

villagegolfer, by a better place you mean the rise is high school drop outs, the increase in teenage PG, the easy of obtaining drugs, the high debt ratio to GDP of the US of A, the drop in the Stock Market. I guess that you are right, we are in a better place.

You did not spot the sarcasm?:shrug:

[Guest]

we have freedom of religion not freedom from religion.

This confuses me.. I am mandated to have a religion? By what law?

Cologal, you're just be silly now, I'm guessing.

Of course, CMANN is trying to tell you that you have, by Constitutional Right, the freedom of practicing or not practicing any religion you choose; but you do not have a Constitutional Right to be protected from being exposed to someone else practicing their religion.

[Guest]

This was written to a friend who asked me to explain my spiritual background. As someone who grew up with both survivors from the death camps, members of the Chicago Outfit, and a mother who was the child of sharecroppers in West Virginia - I had fairly unusual cultural background.

So here is the raw meat kids. Enjoy!

I am an agnostic. People often confuse this with being wishy-washy or indifferent or purposefully not informed. I am none of these – though, for social comfort, I am happy to hide behind this myth.

You asked me about god and I will try to explain. I am not trying to ask you to agree with me. Truly, I do not know if I am right; however, the more I think about god (which I see as something akin to the great clockmaker) – the more humble I am.

First, what we think of as religion is a tribal myth designed to explain what was once – the unexplainable – and also is a tribal need to separate “us” from “them.”

As a specie, humans have a need (along with many mammals) to survive and thrive by creating artificial groups that are easier to provide genetic control.

When a male lion kills or is able to cast off the previous alpha male, his next task is to kill the cubs of the previous alpha male. It ensures the primacy of his DNA.

Don’t get me wrong – the lion isn’t thinking “DNA” – this is something done instinctually. Despite our ability to reason, we still operate on a degree of instinctual programming. After all, we are just another mammal.

In terms of organized religion…

If you are a Christian, all you have to do is study the actual history of Jesus and the early church to see that you are studying a non-violent Jew, responding to outside oppression, who inspired and provided hope and a meaningful message to those without power.

The development of the early church and the codifying of the gospels is the story of binding people together to deal with Roman oppression and (once co-opted) to ensure the extension of that same Roman power.

Other religions’ have a similar history.

Most of them are not inherently evil…but, like all tribalism, they are often the cause of human conflict and the justification for bad behavior… assuming you consider jihad and the inquisition bad behavior.

That does not mean there is not power and magic in religious belief. The power comes from religion's ability to bind folks together and the magic comes from faith. I’m afraid neither of these concern god.

Faith is powerful. We are capable of incredible things. We just have doubts. Faith gives us the power to overcome our self-imposed limitations. It also provides us with peace.

Faith allows people to create great things…unimaginable things. It allows the sick to grow well (the placebo effect is very real).

When we lose hope – faith gives us a context for renewal. This is a beautiful thing.

I am deficient in faith and it is one of the saddest truths about myself that I have to cope with.

But, faith is not god. Faith is something humans have. It could be something we developed...like Portland cement. It may be somewhere in our DNA. I don't know.

But, let’s go to god. If a clockmaker exists, we are more likely to find it at the supercollider at Cern than in the paintings of Michelangelo.

We don’t know what we don’t know.

Our understanding of reality is limited by our senses and our Weltanshschauung (google - world view).

There are forces and powers and realities way beyond our limited ability to perceive them.

Sharks hunt by sensing electrical impulses – they “see” a reality we can only intellectually understand. We cannot “see” it for ourselves.

There are many forces in the universe that we cannot “see.” Some we know about - some we don’t.

But even when senses allow us to perceive something…that doesn’t mean it is real.

All you have to do is watch Rashomon to quickly understand that what we accept as "fact" is absolutely distorted by our preconceptions.

This limitation of preconception is why we burned women at Salem (hey, they’re acting stange…it’s the devil’s work) and why we bought into a usless war in Iraq…more the product our belief in American exceptionalism than any real belief in the existence of WMDs (we are so special that we can re-make the middle east into a democratic theme park).

If god - the creator - is to be found,, I’m afraid we will see him/her/it as just another mystery. My guess is that the clockmaker will be beyond our ability to understand.

Maybe we will discover him/her/it in the source of the big bang… or maybe in the essence of biological evolution…or possibly in the space between matter that pulls us together and pushes us apart (which is what Cern is about).

And it may be possible that a clockmaker doesn’t exist.

In Stephen Hawkings’ latest book, he makes such a case.

For years, Hawkings left the god door open. Now, the closest he will go is to say, "possible – but, I don’t think so."

Me? I’m not smart enough to form an opinion. I simply don’t know. That’s why I’m an agnostic.

I am humbled by every new thing that comes along. I just try to pick out the important sentence. Even that seems a hard task these days.

[Guest]

This was written to a friend who asked me to explain my spiritual background. As someone who grew up with both survivors from the death camps, members of the Chicago Outfit, and a mother who was the child of sharecroppers in West Virginia - I had fairly unusual cultural background.

So here is the raw meat kids. Enjoy!

I am an agnostic. People often confuse this with being wishy-washy or indifferent or purposefully not informed. I am none of these – though, for social comfort, I am happy to hide behind this myth.

You asked me about god and I will try to explain. I am not trying to ask you to agree with me. Truly, I do not know if I am right; however, the more I think about god (which I see as something akin to the great clockmaker) – the more humble I am.

First, what we think of as religion is a tribal myth designed to explain what was once – the unexplainable – and also is a tribal need to separate “us” from “them.”

As a specie, humans have a need (along with many mammals) to survive and thrive by creating artificial groups that are easier to provide genetic control.

When a male lion kills or is able to cast off the previous alpha male, his next task is to kill the cubs of the previous alpha male. It ensures the primacy of his DNA.

Don’t get me wrong – the lion isn’t thinking “DNA” – this is something done instinctually. Despite our ability to reason, we still operate on a degree of instinctual programming. After all, we are just another mammal.

In terms of organized religion…

If you are a Christian, all you have to do is study the actual history of Jesus and the early church to see that you are studying a non-violent Jew, responding to outside oppression, who inspired and provided hope and a meaningful message to those without power.

The development of the early church and the codifying of the gospels is the story of binding people together to deal with Roman oppression and (once co-opted) to ensure the extension of that same Roman power.

Other religions’ have a similar history.

Most of them are not inherently evil…but, like all tribalism, they are often the cause of human conflict and the justification for bad behavior… assuming you consider jihad and the inquisition bad behavior.

That does not mean there is not power and magic in religious belief. The power comes from religion's ability to bind folks together and the magic comes from faith. I’m afraid neither of these concern god.

Faith is powerful. We are capable of incredible things. We just have doubts. Faith gives us the power to overcome our self-imposed limitations. It also provides us with peace.

Faith allows people to create great things…unimaginable things. It allows the sick to grow well (the placebo effect is very real).

When we lose hope – faith gives us a context for renewal. This is a beautiful thing.

I am deficient in faith and it is one of the saddest truths about myself that I have to cope with.

But, faith is not god. Faith is something humans have. It could be something we developed...like Portland cement. It may be somewhere in our DNA. I don't know.

But, let’s go to god. If a clockmaker exists, we are more likely to find it at the supercollider at Cern than in the paintings of Michelangelo.

We don’t know what we don’t know.

Our understanding of reality is limited by our senses and our Weltanshschauung (google - world view).

There are forces and powers and realities way beyond our limited ability to perceive them.

Sharks hunt by sensing electrical impulses – they “see” a reality we can only intellectually understand. We cannot “see” it for ourselves.

There are many forces in the universe that we cannot “see.” Some we know about - some we don’t.

But even when senses allow us to perceive something…that doesn’t mean it is real.

All you have to do is watch Rashomon to quickly understand that what we accept as "fact" is absolutely distorted by our preconceptions.

This limitation of preconception is why we burned women at Salem (hey, they’re acting stange…it’s the devil’s work) and why we bought into a usless war in Iraq…more the product our belief in American exceptionalism than any real belief in the existence of WMDs (we are so special that we can re-make the middle east into a democratic theme park).

If god - the creator - is to be found,, I’m afraid we will see him/her/it as just another mystery. My guess is that the clockmaker will be beyond our ability to understand.

Maybe we will discover him/her/it in the source of the big bang… or maybe in the essence of biological evolution…or possibly in the space between matter that pulls us together and pushes us apart (which is what Cern is about).

And it may be possible that a clockmaker doesn’t exist.

In Stephen Hawkings’ latest book, he makes such a case.

For years, Hawkings left the god door open. Now, the closest he will go is to say, "possible – but, I don’t think so."

Me? I’m not smart enough to form an opinion. I simply don’t know. That’s why I’m an agnostic.

I am humbled by every new thing that comes along. I just try to pick out the important sentence. Even that seems a hard task these days.

Hmm. Nice cut and paste. I have read that somewhere before. This is not you.

[Guest]

Nope - totally my prose - though it's floating out there in several blogs and I still get e-mails about it. I guess "Thank You" is in order - though my guess is that your comment wasn't intended to be a compliment.

[Guest]

I have found that ALL organized religions have depart so far from their original foundings that all they are now is a way to control a group of people into doing the founders will.

Example: Where in the Bible any Bible does it say that you have to have a billion dollar building to worship. Just someones way of bilking you of your money.

You want to believe in the Lord, Allah, G*d or who ever that is fine. But believe in the true way not lining someone elses pockets or killing those that don't believe as you do.

[Guest]

I have found that ALL organized religions have depart so far from their original foundings that all they are now is a way to control a group of people into doing the founders will.

Example: Where in the Bible any Bible does it say that you have to have a billion dollar building to worship. Just someones way of bilking you of your money.

You want to believe in the Lord, Allah, G*d or who ever that is fine. But believe in the true way not lining someone elses pockets or killing those that don't believe as you do.

There's a big difference in concept between "faith" and "religion". Religion is usually a lot of man-made hierarchy, rules and restrictions that give power and honor to the men at the top. God has a way of dealing with people who usurp His sovereign position and give glory to themselves instead of their creator.

Faith is believing and trusting in the God who made us, trusting that He knows what He is doing, as He knew what He was doing when he created this beautiful planet and the life we have in the USA.

Faith is also trusting that He will answer our desperate cries for help. He tests our faith in Him (Abraham with Isaac on the altar is a prime example) and He blesses us many times over for our faith.

He blesses us with a nation that has true freedom to worship as we please....or not. Some of us cherish that freedom, but increasingly, many want an authoritarian central government, USSR-style, which would ban worship of God but gladly welcome servile worship of its statist dictator.

About the "billion dollar" church building....it's not always a "castle" for the money kings as implied above. Most often, the huge church is built because 3-4,000 people cannot all sit down together in a sanctuary that seats 400. There are practical reasons and not all the "megachurches" are lavish materially.

BTW, many of our founding fathers had faith in God, without getting into all the junk of man-made religion.

"In regards to this great Book (the Bible), I have but to say it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this Book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are found portrayed in it.” --Abraham Lincoln

[Guest]

...never to discuss either politics or religion in polite company.

Well, I guess I'm batting .500...or is this "polite company"?

[Guest]

...never to discuss either politics or religion in polite company.

Well, I guess I'm batting .500...or is this "polite company"?

I guess we should answer the beginning question by going back to the ever-reliable, compact phrase:

"It's Bush's fault"

[Guest]

Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion


...and yes, I remember the "nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" part.

What the Constitution does NOT say is "an establishment of A religion"

"Establishment" is a NOUN, NOT A VERB in that sentence. A church is an "establishment of religion", as is a Catholic-owned school - just as you could say the corner pub is an establishment of alcohol and enterprise.

[Guest]

I guess we should answer the beginning question by going back to the ever-reliable, compact phrase:

"It's Bush's fault"

Nah.....it's gotta be Obama's. :D