Mandatory School Vaccinations

[Guest]

We have heard Michelle Bachmann's viewpoint on mandatory vaccinations. Do you agree that all vaccinations (smallpox, whooping cough, diptheria, HPV, tetanus, polio) should be at the parent's discretion and not mandated by government?

[Guest]

I do not know Backmann's opinion on vaccinations but if she is elected President, I do not think it will ever be an issue because there will be ObamaCare and I am more concerned about the Death Panels that will determine who has a right for treatments and who will be left to die.

[Guest]

We have heard Michelle Bachmann's viewpoint on mandatory vaccinations. Do you agree that all vaccinations (smallpox, whooping cough, diptheria, HPV, tetanus, polio) should be at the parent's discretion and not mandated by government?

There is no short, yes/no answer to that question, because many of the communicable, deadly diseases are spread by simply being in society, NOT by sexual contact as is the case with human papilloma virus!

There are many diseases spread by physical or sexual contact besides HPV, such as HIV and hepatitis. If you want the government to mandate HPV vaccinations for everyone, are you going to push for everyone getting hepatitis shots too?

When diseases that are airborne are on the loose and epidemic, I think it's appropriate to require it.

Here is a great example that is not even being talked about, while Guardasil against HPV is being talked about....I think because Hollywood and their politicians have succeeded in training people to think that....

Sexual freedom without giving disease a thought is what matters most. Meanwhile, this is a big problem:

"Europe is facing a wave of drug-resistant TB, the World Health Organization (WHO) reported.

The United Nations agency has launched a five-year plan to contain what is said is an "alarming problem" – the region, mainly eastern Europe, bears more than 18% of the global burden of multidrug-resistant TB (MDR-TB).
The toll of extensively drug-resistant TB (XDR-TB) is harder to quantify, the agency said, because many European countries do not have the technical resources to identify cases. But despite that, the number of reported cases recently nearly tripled – from 132 in 2008 to 344 in 2009.

"TB is an old disease that never went away, and now it is evolving with a vengeance," Zsuzsanna Jakab, WHO Regional Director for Europe, said in a statement........

...Currently, the WHO said in a report outlining its five-year plan, there are an estimated 81,000 cases of MDR-TB in the European region, out of a world total estimate of 440,000. The numbers are estimates because in many places formal resistance surveys have never been performed.

And in Europe, the WHO reported, only about a third of the estimated 81,000 cases have been formally reported to health agencies – 27,760 or 34.2% -- mainly because of a lack of drug susceptibility testing or more modern molecular diagnostic methods.

Of those, only 17,169 patients, or 61.8%, were reported to be getting adequate treatment with second-line drugs.

Diagnosing XDR-TB requires the ability to test for susceptibility to second-line drugs, ........

.....The British capital of London has 3,500 cases of TB a year – the highest rate of any western European capital -- and 2% of those are MDR-TB, according to the Stop TB Partnership, an international coalition of organizations aimed at curbing TB........

........Those countries must also examine their health systems, raise awareness of the problem among clinicians, and adopt action plans to deal with the issue, the agency said. The plan also calls for an uninterrupted supply of quality first- and second-line drugs in all countries by the end of 2013........"
http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/Tuberculosis/28503

[Guest]

At the parents discretion...well, let me think about that. Let's say Mrs. Smith decided not to have her child immunized for measles, mumps. Neither did many other parents. Little Suzie comes down with mumps...now it spreads, same with measles. These can be common childhood afflictions, but they can also be deadly. In addition to putting other children at risk, adults are also put at risk.

Has she had her children immunized?

[Guest]

And what magic is to be employed to get parents to do what is right regarding immunization.
Several schools at start up this year had thousands of kids who could not be admitted because the parents did not see to it they were immunized before the start of the school year. Knowing they were not done, the parents sent their kids to school anyway. Many had to wait hours to get the proper immunization from the school administrators.

Leave it up to the parents....no way!!!! But if it ever happens then there is only one acceptable outcome...no immunization....send them home and don't let them back until they do what is required. Hard nosed? You bet....it is the only language irresponsible people understand and sometimes that may not work.

btk

[Guest]

We have heard Michelle Bachmann's viewpoint on mandatory vaccinations. Do you agree that all vaccinations (smallpox, whooping cough, diptheria, HPV, tetanus, polio) should be at the parent's discretion and not mandated by government?

Sure, if you want us to be like a third world nation with these diseases running rampant.

[Guest]

Sure, if you want us to be like a third world nation with these diseases running rampant.

But in this nation, it's not "third-world" or low socio-economic class people who are purposely not vaccinating their children.

Unfortunately, it is well-to-do, suburban "upscale" mothers we know who are purposely not vaccinating their children, because of the unproven claims of autism stemming from vaccinations. They are self-proclaimed natural and organic food experts who are also obssessed with controlling their kids' eating so they don't get fat.

These parents are listening more to television and pop culture than medically educated sources cited here:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2011220450_apusmedvaccineskeptics.html

[Guest]

If there had been a polio vaccine when we were growing up, it would have prevented some of my schoolmates from being paralyzed and living in an iron lung, and spared my parents much worry and anxiety about one of us getting it..

If there had been a vaccination for diptheria when my father was growing up, he wouldn't have lost two siblings in one day from that disease.

So, I am thankful that there are vaccinations now for these communicable childhood diseases, and if the parents don't realize that they are fortunate to not have to worry about them and don't do the right thing, then the govt. should mandate it.

[Guest]

I support mandatory vaccination as early as deemed safe by the Medical Community. We have idiot parents that don't believe in doctors and will let God heal their sick child and if the child dies, then it was Gods will. Wake up people, this is not even worth discussing. It must be MANDATORY.

[Guest]

I support mandatory vaccination as early as deemed safe by the Medical Community. We have idiot parents that don't believe in doctors and will let God heal their sick child and if the child dies, then it was Gods will. Wake up people, this is not even worth discussing. It must be MANDATORY.


spot on

[Guest]

My children were all vaccinated. However, if you have your vaccine that prevents you from getting a particular disease, why would you worry about coming into contact with someone who has the disease as the result of not getting their vaccine?...what am I missing?

[Guest]

My children were all vaccinated. However, if you have your vaccine that prevents you from getting a particular disease, why would you worry about coming into contact with someone who has the disease as the result of not getting their vaccine?...what am I missing?

You are missing nothing. How could disease "run rampant" when it will only be a small minority that does not get the vaccine. Some people here cannot think.

[Guest]

What happens, though, if a person such as Bachmann gets to be President and does away with mandated vaccinations for school kids? Schools will no longer require them, kids do not get vaccinated, diseases that were about eridicated return in epidemic numbers.

Where I come from in the Washington DC area, if a child shows up on the first day of school without the completed shot record, they are sent home immediately and cannot return until all required shots are up to date. It does not have to cost the families anything to get the shots, either.

The question was: Do you feel that all vaccinations for school children should be at the discretion of the parent or should they be mandated by the government? What is your personal opinion - and what did you do for your children?

[Guest]

My children were all vaccinated. However, if you have your vaccine that prevents you from getting a particular disease, why would you worry about coming into contact with someone who has the disease as the result of not getting their vaccine?...what am I missing?

You're not missing anything if we're talking about an innoculated child. The assumption is that there could be a number of parents that decide not to have their children vaccinated. A child gets sick, then passes it along to their siblings, who then go to day care where there could be other youngsters not vaccinated and the disease is passed along.

Kids get chickenpox, they might not show signs of the illness while they are "shedding" the virus. Older adults might now develop shingles, which can be very painful for many. Adults not vaccinated as youngsters are also at risk for developing the disease, chickenpox, and it can be more serious. People travel, bringing along with them various viruses and again, spread disease even while they might not know they're infected.
While these childhood diseases aren't as prevalent in the US as they once were, they could re-emerge once again, in full force.

[Guest]

You're not missing anything if we're talking about an innoculated child. The assumption is that there could be a number of parents that decide not to have their children vaccinated. A child gets sick, then passes it along to their siblings, who then go to day care where there could be other youngsters not vaccinated and the disease is passed along.

Kids get chickenpox, they might not show signs of the illness while they are "shedding" the virus. Older adults might now develop shingles, which can be very painful for many. Adults not vaccinated as youngsters are also at risk for developing the disease, chickenpox, and it can be more serious. People travel, bringing along with them various viruses and again, spread disease even while they might not know they're infected.
While these childhood diseases aren't as prevalent in the US as they once were, they could re-emerge once again, in full force.

What about the millions of illegals that come here every year that are not vaccinated? I would think that if diseases "run rampant" it would have happened by now. We are only talking about a small percentage of civilians here.
Please explain the millions and millions of people who come into this country every year and why we haven't had an epidemic.

[Guest]

Not to compare our children to our pets, but people have their pets immunized against various and sundry cat, dog, horse diseases. Why would they not think about having their children immunized against diseases the vaccines are known to prevent? Whooping cough is rearing its ugly head once again, Clostridium tetani lives in the soil and may remain inactive there, but can be infectious for up to 40 years.

[Guest]

What about the millions of illegals that come here every year that are not vaccinated? I would think that if diseases "run rampant" it would have happened by now. We are only talking about a small percentage of civilians here.
Please explain the millions and millions of people who come into this country every year and why we haven't had an epidemic.

I am really curious about all the unvaccinated illegals here. Should we round them up and vaccinate them? Oh wait, I'm sorry, undocumented people. Last I heard we should not stop them when they are suspects because it would be racist.

[Guest]

What about the millions of illegals that come here every year that are not vaccinated? I would think that if diseases "run rampant" it would have happened by now. We are only talking about a small percentage of civilians here.
Please explain the millions and millions of people who come into this country every year and why we haven't had an epidemic.

Could it be that there are enough people innoculated? Polio is once again rearing its ugly head in some African countries where the disease was once held in check because people are not vaccinating. Measles is now showing up in more children in the US because there are fewer immunizations. Measles is more prevelant in Europe and it has been brought into the US by travelers. If measles, then other diseases can be brought back to the US also. No one said millions and millions of people, but children can die as a results of having measles and the pneumonia that can develop.

How would you feel if one of the children that died as a result of this seemingly "harmless" childhood disease, was your child or grandchild? Viruses are spread VERY EASILY, and children are notorious for spreading them from one to another. Diphtheria can be a killer, and it is a very contagious bacteria caused disease. Here we have very few cases, but in other countries where innoculations aren't necessary the norm, the disease persists and adults as well as children, are at risk. We are a very mobile global society and just because we have a particular virus or bacteria caused disease under control or eliminated in our country, doesn't mean that the risk to all is eliminated. It's easy to become complacent, bacteria and viruses are ever changing. Influenza is a good example. Do you get a flu shot? After a one month siege with flu many years ago, I will always get my flu shot. I was terribly sick, I can't imagine that type of illness in a youngster or older adult.

Illegals were bringing TB into the US....live in southern CA and you'll be concerned. I know we were. Other diseases, probably.

[Guest]

I am really curious about all the unvaccinated illegals here. Should we round them up and vaccinate them? Oh wait, I'm sorry, undocumented people. Last I heard we should not stop them when they are suspects because it would be racist.

That's a different subject.

Yes there are lots of illegals in this country. When talking about illegals, those who manage to get in without proper authorization, we tend to think about Mexican citizens more than those from other countries. They might arrive without "shots" to prevent disease. Is a particular disease rampant in their country? Might not be. Once here, who knows, maybe they do get shots for their children....and even themselves.

What it seems like to me is that Ms. Obama seems to forget that she is not a microbiologist, she doesn't take into account the easy transmission of diseases from one infected individual to potentially many others. Her thoughts "sound" good to those who might not understand the scientific reasoning behind immunizations, but to anyone who has a true understanding of how and why diseases spread and are spread, her suggestion is foolish, at least in my humble opinion.

[Guest]

Where are all those who support Pro-Choice? Where are those who defend the right to make the choice over what happens to one's own body? If it is not fair for a parent or anyone to force a young lady to carry out a pregnancy to full term, why is it fair to mandate any vaccine, complete with preservatives and toxic chemicals, to be taken by any young man, young lady, or child?

[Guest]

That's a different subject.

Yes there are lots of illegals in this country. When talking about illegals, those who manage to get in without proper authorization, we tend to think about Mexican citizens more than those from other countries. They might arrive without "shots" to prevent disease. Is a particular disease rampant in their country? Might not be. Once here, who knows, maybe they do get shots for their children....and even themselves.

What it seems like to me is that Ms. Obama seems to forget that she is not a microbiologist, she doesn't take into account the easy transmission of diseases from one infected individual to potentially many others. Her thoughts "sound" good to those who might not understand the scientific reasoning behind immunizations, but to anyone who has a true understanding of how and why diseases spread and are spread, her suggestion is foolish, at least in my humble opinion.

No she isn't. And she is not a nutritionist. She eats junk food and preaches against obesity. I do not think I have heard of our eloquent first lady's opinion on vaccinations. I do not have a very high opinion of her anyways. She was never proud to be an American until her insignificant other got elected.

[Guest]

What happens, though, if a person such as Bachmann gets to be President and does away with mandated vaccinations for school kids? Schools will no longer require them, kids do not get vaccinated, diseases that were about eridicated return in epidemic numbers.

Where I come from in the Washington DC area, if a child shows up on the first day of school without the completed shot record, they are sent home immediately and cannot return until all required shots are up to date. It does not have to cost the families anything to get the shots, either.

The question was: Do you feel that all vaccinations for school children should be at the discretion of the parent or should they be mandated by the government? What is your personal opinion - and what did you do for your children?

Had I known what I know now about vaccines and the roullette of risks associated with them, I cannot say for sure that I would have had my children vaccinated...

[Guest]

When a disease like polio or tuberculosis is acquired by simply being in society, that is a public health problem, for which government, public health officials and departments have a responsibility to protect others. BUT.....

If a disease like HPV is transmitted by sexual contact, how is that a public health threat, when it's an individual, personal choice to have sex??

I think the problem many have with Guardasil being mandated is that an assumption is made that all 12-year-olds are going to have sex in the next couple of years. The presumption is "they're gonna do it anyway", so let's protect them. A similar presumption would be, "Let's mandate all girls age 12 and over start taking The Pill".......because "they're gonna do it anyway". Is that really what you guys want?

I realize family and pediatrics doctors are seeing younger and younger teens and pre-teens being sexually active and spreading STD's. But it's none of government's business to be involved in private activity like that, as Pro-Choice people often say, "stay out of my bedroom" and "stay out of my womb". So now the same people are saying "get in there and do something prophylactic about HPV"??????????

[Guest]

It is irresponsible people who hide their heads in the sand who say HPV vaccine should not be mandated. It is responsible people who want to stop the spread of disease who think it should be mandated.

The 12 year old who has sex is not going to tell parents about it. You do not wait until the child is exposed before getting a vaccination.

That is responsible parenting. Oh, I forgot I was talking to conservatives.

[Guest]

Responsibility? I find it amusing when a liberal says that word. Liberals usually say that it is not one's fault that someone does drugs. It is not one's fault that someone is on welfare. If the government schools taught responsibility, maybe societies ills would decrease substantially.

I remember the 70's when I came home from overseas. All the guys told me that things are crazy now. All the girls are on the pill. I couldn't believe it. It was like a kid in a candy store. I also remember the divorce rate of the baby boomers. Seems half the people I knew were divorced. Nightclubs were very big in the 70's. It took boomer's aging and AIDS to close down most of the nightclubs.

Responsibility? Liberalism has practically bankrupted the USA, morally and fiscally.

[Guest]

Responsible parenting is telling your children the TRUTH.
Truth is, if you a guy or gal is willing to have sex with you outside of marriage, who else have they been willing to have sex...ie, you don't know where it has been before or what disease it has been exposed to?
Truth is, if you have sex without the benefit of birth control, you are running the risk of procreation...ie, are you ready to be a parent?
Truth is, aim for the best and deal responsibly with the rest...ie, we all make mistakes, but how you deal with the mistakes is a test of your true charactor.
Truth is, no one is perfect...ie, there is forgiveness to be found from those who truly love you.
Truth is, as a loving responsible parent, I OWE THEM THE TRUTH!

[Guest]

You're not missing anything if we're talking about an innoculated child. The assumption is that there could be a number of parents that decide not to have their children vaccinated. A child gets sick, then passes it along to their siblings, who then go to day care where there could be other youngsters not vaccinated and the disease is passed along.

Kids get chickenpox, they might not show signs of the illness while they are "shedding" the virus. Older adults might now develop shingles, which can be very painful for many. Adults not vaccinated as youngsters are also at risk for developing the disease, chickenpox, and it can be more serious. People travel, bringing along with them various viruses and again, spread disease even while they might not know they're infected.
While these childhood diseases aren't as prevalent in the US as they once were, they could re-emerge once again, in full force.

There is a medication to prevent shingles now...

[Guest]

There is a medication to prevent shingles now...

That is true, but then again, not everyone takes advantage of the vaccination.

[Guest]

It is irresponsible people who hide their heads in the sand who say HPV vaccine should not be mandated. It is responsible people who want to stop the spread of disease who think it should be mandated.

The 12 year old who has sex is not going to tell parents about it. You do not wait until the child is exposed before getting a vaccination.

That is responsible parenting. Oh, I forgot I was talking to conservatives.

The physiological stress of pregnancy and childbirth can be deadly to an 11- or 12-year-old girl. So should the state or federal government mandate that all girls start taking The Pill when they are 11 years old, "before the child is exposed"?????

[Guest]

The physiological stress of pregnancy and childbirth can be deadly to an 11- or 12-year-old girl. So should the state or federal government mandate that all girls start taking The Pill when they are 11 years old, "before the child is exposed"?????



That is a good idea. We must stop unwed teenage pregnancy somehow. If a 11 or 12 year old gets pregnant (not through rape) must have been sexually active. The vaccination and one on the pill would not be pregnant and would not get the cancer. If that don't work, you could send them to Bachmann's clinic to have the pregnancy prayed away. Leaving it to chance is irresponsible at best.

[Guest]

That is a good idea. We must stop unwed teenage pregnancy somehow. If a 11 or 12 year old gets pregnant (not through rape) must have been sexually active. The vaccination and one on the pill would not be pregnant and would not get the cancer. If that don't work, you could send them to Bachmann's clinic to have the pregnancy prayed away. Leaving it to chance is irresponsible at best.

Interesting, well there is an up side to this. If there is less teenage pregnancies, the welfare rolls might recede. That might be bad news for democrat candidates, though.:shrug:

[Guest]

Snarkiness and mocking are just typical conservative tools. I know that one will add his 2 cents on to the end of the post as in 8 of the last 10 posts on political forum as it also is his way of one ups manship. Just snarkiness and more mocking.

[Guest]

Snarkiness and mocking are just typical conservative tools. I know that one will add his 2 cents on to the end of the post as in 8 of the last 10 posts on political forum as it also is his way of one ups manship. Just snarkiness and more mocking.

It is called obsessive compulsive disorder. Prozac is the drug of choice for this illness.

[Guest]

more Truth...Don't cross the street without looking both ways first. Don't poop your pants after the age of about 3 years old. Don't take things that don't belong to you. Don't touch a hot stove. Don't pet the strange dog or talk to strange people...It always amazes me that we expect kids to learn only certain aspects of self control. When it comes to SEX, people assume that we are just animals and therefore "slaves" to our sexual urges...what the heck?

[Guest]

more Truth...Don't cross the street without looking both ways first. Don't poop your pants after the age of about 3 years old. Don't take things that don't belong to you. Don't touch a hot stove. Don't pet the strange dog or talk to strange people...It always amazes me that we expect kids to learn only certain aspects of self control. When it comes to SEX, people assume that we are just animals and therefore "slaves" to our sexual urges...what the heck?

The drive to have Sex is the strongest natural instinct that men have.

[Guest]

The drive to have Sex is the strongest natural instinct that men have.

...and???? therefore it is not able to be controlled???? We are not animals and we are capable of self control.

[Guest]

...and???? therefore it is not able to be controlled???? We are not animals and we are capable of self control.

To ask or tell teenagers not to have sex is a bit naive. They are going to do it with or without your permission. For the sake of their lives, allow them protection from pregnancy and disease.

[Guest]

The drive to have Sex is the strongest natural instinct that men have.

Wow, I was thinking that the strongest natural instinct is to survive. To survive we get an education or learn a trade. Between getting ready to go to work, then work, then coming home from work, having energy for sex was just a fringe benefit.

Teaching children that sex is just another thing to express your love for your spouse would be the proper Christian thing to do. Oh no, I said "Christian" I hope I am not in trouble. Ok. Take the Christian equation out and teach the children that it would be pragmatic to concentrate on sex when you find your soul mate?

[Guest]

To ask or tell teenagers not to have sex is a bit naive. They are going to do it with or without your permission. For the sake of their lives, allow them protection from pregnancy and disease.

They probably will drink, smoke pot, and a few other pleasureable activities too, with or without permission. If that is the case, we should lower the drinking age and make pot legal. Pot could be a regulated commodity to be sure they aren't getting any erroneous ingredients. Also sell it in stores, a safer venue than some back alley...Just for their protection.

[Guest]

Wow, I was thinking that the strongest natural instinct is to survive. To survive we get an education or learn a trade. Between getting ready to go to work, then work, then coming home from work,.

Teaching children that sex is just another thing to express your love for your spouse would be the proper Christian thing to do. Oh no, I said "Christian" I hope I am not in trouble. Ok. Take the Christian equation out and teach the children that it would be pragmatic to concentrate on sex when you find your soul mate?

having energy for sex was just a fringe benefit

Sorry to hear that. Must have been interesting for you.

[Guest]

The drive to have Sex is the strongest natural instinct that men have.

And 999,999 out of a million women will be thoroughly repulsed by them.

[Guest]

They probably will drink, smoke pot, and a few other pleasureable activities too, with or without permission. If that is the case, we should lower the drinking age and make pot legal. Pot could be a regulated commodity to be sure they aren't getting any erroneous ingredients. Also sell it in stores, a safer venue than some back alley...Just for their protection.

Now your talking like you have their best interest at hand. The old beat kids with a bible days are long gone. When we face up to that, we can begin to help this generation of children.

[Guest]

having energy for sex was just a fringe benefit

Sorry to hear that. Must have been interesting for you.

I never said that I didn't have the energy. I have always been a fitness buff. I still have the energy and I can run 5 miles in this heat at my advanced years. What say you?

[Guest]

Now your talking like you have their best interest at hand. The old beat kids with a bible days are long gone. When we face up to that, we can begin to help this generation of children.

I have always had their best interest at hand. Hence my advice to them to remain abstinent until married. I am also serious about the legalization of pot and the lowering of the drinking age. It is ludicrous to think that the same men and women who can die in battle, should not be able to drink. I also think pot is not any worse than alcoholic beverages, so why not be legal. I don't drink or smoke...both are bad for the health. But then again, apparently so is promiscuous sex... I have advised all of my children against any of these vices. When talked to as tho they have a brain in their head and a choice to practice self control or not, it is amazing what a young person can hear!

[Guest]

I have always had their best interest at hand. Hence my advice to them to remain abstinent until married. I am also serious about the legalization of pot and the lowering of the drinking age. It is ludicrous to think that the same men and women who can die in battle, should not be able to drink. I also think pot is not any worse than alcoholic beverages, so why not be legal. I don't drink or smoke...both are bad for the health. But then again, apparently so is promiscuous sex... I have advised all of my children against any of these vices. When talked to as tho they have a brain in their head and a choice to practice self control or not, it is amazing what a young person can hear!

My hats off too you. Sounds like you have done well and well thought out to get there also. Now, how do we plant your moral values into the heads of all mothers on earth. Until we can, some other method has to bridge the gap.

[Guest]

My hats off too you. Sounds like you have done well and well thought out to get there also. Now, how do we plant your moral values into the heads of all mothers on earth. Until we can, some other method has to bridge the gap.

There are far more of mothers that have these moral values in their heads than you can imagine. I think looking out for the best interest of our children is one of the strongest, if not THE strongest, natural instinct that women have!

[Guest]

...and???? therefore it is not able to be controlled???? We are not animals and we are capable of self control.

We most certainly are animals. You are either a plant, an animal or a mineral, or ok, maybe a gas or a liquid, etc.

[Guest]

We most certainly are animals. You are either a plant, an animal or a mineral, or ok, maybe a gas or a liquid, etc.

Yes, our biological classification is in the animal kingdom as opposed to the other kingdom which is plant. You are correct. I should have been more specific. I meant the term animal as in one of the definitions of animal- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/animal3. A person who behaves in a bestial or brutish manner.

[Guest]

Yes, our biological classification is in the animal kingdom as opposed to the other kingdom which is plant. You are correct. I should have been more specific. I meant the term animal as in one of the definitions of animal- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/animal3. A person who behaves in a bestial or brutish manner.

You are one wise person. Perhaps our paths will cross one day.