Martin Rosenthal and the Pledge of Allegiance

[Guest]

Free publicity for an attorney in Boston.

This liberal (me) believes in The Pledge of Allegiance. I said the pledge every day in school and it gave me the love of America that makes me express what are often unpopular views.

People like Rosenthal are just using the controversy to generate business.
Ignore him and he will go away.

[Guest]

"one nation, under corporation.....with liberty and justice......for those that can afford it"

[Guest]

"one nation, under corporation.....with liberty and justice......for those that can afford it"

your true colors

[Guest]

it's so sad to see you don't understand how bad things are becoming..We have lost more freedoms in the Bush era, and even now, than can be imagined..Unchecked corp america has become our downfall..AS IKE said, beware of the military industrial comples.....And as Huey Long said " Of course Fascism will arrive in America,it will be disguised as PATRIOTISM!"

Pray to your god,Help us oh mighty EXON!

[Guest]

Ever since I learned that "Under God" was added in response to the Red Scare in the middle of the last century, I've omitted those two words. Otherwise, I still recite the Pledge at every meeting where it's called for here.

[Guest]

I read this forum and post sometimes but not alot because I don't feel I am up to the level of discussion sometimes but....
djplong, why do you feel you need to leave out that part of the pledge?
When you did say it before you had this new knowledge did you feel forced to say it?
So no "red scare, no God"?
EB

[Guest]

I usually say those two words a little louder just to annoy the atheists in the crowd.;)

[Guest]

I usually say those two words a little louder just to annoy the atheists in the crowd.;)

And I thought you only tried to annoy folks on this site.

[Guest]

And I thought you only tried to annoy folks on this site.

Sarcasm: the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded.

Dostoevsky, Fyodor

It is also the last refuge and tool of those without an intelligent rebuttal.

Cabo

VOTE NOBAMA 2012 :pepper2:

[Guest]

VOTE NOBAMA 2012 :pepper2:

Again, sorry you misunderstood my post. I was not being sarcastic.

[Guest]

I do not desire to get in a discussion about God's existence. However, human beings are spiritual creatures and hence look to something greater than themselves. It is an intrinsic need

I personally take pleasure in including "under God " during the Pledge because what it means to me is that I have great love for this nation (despite its faults) and in something greater than us all.

This country may have its faults but remember the American people have always ended up righting many wrongs and are very charitable people.

GOD BLESS AMERICA

[Guest]

I do not desire to get in a discussion about God's existence. However, human beings are spiritual creatures and hence look to something greater than themselves. It is an intrinsic need

I personally take pleasure in including "under God " during the Pledge because what it means to me is that I have great love for this nation (despite its faults) and in something greater than us all.

This country may have its faults but remember the American people have always ended up righting many wrongs and are very charitable people.

GOD BLESS AMERICA


:bigbow:

[Guest]

I read this forum and post sometimes but not alot because I don't feel I am up to the level of discussion sometimes but....
djplong, why do you feel you need to leave out that part of the pledge?
When you did say it before you had this new knowledge did you feel forced to say it?
So no "red scare, no God"?
EB

It's a bit complicated but, you asked so I'll try to explain.

The more I studied history, the more enamored I became of our Founding Fathers. Not just because they were *our* Founding Fathers but because of how different an approach they took to a new country compared to every single civilization that preceeded them.

Studying the Constitution more and more, the separation of Church and State was something I wanted to investigate since, at the time, I didn't understand why, say, the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland were killing each other. This would be into the 1970s.

It was around the 1980s when I discovered the history of the Pledge. The idea that it was modified 62 years after it was written was a surprise to me. The reasons for it, even more so.

Over the decades, I've come to the opinion that there are very few places for "God" in government. From Ireland to Iran you find troubles. Look through history and you can't count the number of religious wars that have happened - all in the name of someone who was preaching peace. That just doesn't sit well with me.

So, to me, that part of the Pledge is as it was written "...and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty..."

We are not "under God" because, for one, you can't define it. Who's "God" are we under? Who's interpretation? Religion, to me, is a very personal matter and, yes, I have VERY personal feelings on it. Suffice to say, however, that I *do* believe there is something out there beyond what our mortal bodies can see and prove. I've been dead before (1978) and my experiences helped lead me to where I am today. By the same token, I'm not arrogant enough to think that my interpretation of what I experienced is 100% correct and should be the rule of law for everyone.

"Under God" is something that is more appropriate between me and whatever concept of God I believe in.

My country, however, needs to deal with facts, not myths. If we are "under God", then who is His representative to tell us what to do or give guidance? The Pope? Some Jewish conclave? Some Imam in Saudi? Laurie Cabot?

I don't mean to insult anyone with this post. This is, as I said, my opinion and I've had a lot of experiences that have led me here. Others have had other experiences that put them in a different place. Not better, not worse, just different.

[Guest]

:cus:it's so sad to see you don't understand how bad things are becoming..We have lost more freedoms in the Bush era, and even now, than can be imagined..Unchecked corp america has become our downfall..AS IKE said, beware of the military industrial comples.....And as Huey Long said " Of course Fascism will arrive in America,it will be disguised as PATRIOTISM!"

Pray to your god,Help us oh mighty EXON!

As is the case when most liberals make this reference, they ignore that Eisenhower pointed out that the defense budget exceeded the combined profits of all the corporations in America and the armed forces had over 3.5 active duty members. Today these numbers have changed drastically - we have less than one million under arms including not just active, but reserve forces. The military share of our national budget is less than one third what it was when Eisenhower gave his farewell address.

What is chosen to be ignored is his other warning, "As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow." We have, in the name of compassion mortgaged not only our grandchildren's material assists, but their enjoying their political and spiritual heritage that was passed down to us.

It is our crushing debt and unfunded obligations (particularly 'entitlement' program) that are destroying our freedom. not some bogeyman corporation. Stop listening to politicians that say spending even more of the monies that we do not have on 'stimulus' programs or destroying our energy future in the phantom wish for 'green' energy.

[Guest]

:cus:

As is the case when most liberals make this reference, they ignore that Eisenhower pointed out that the defense budget exceeded the combined profits of all the corporations in America and the armed forces had over 3.5 active duty members. Today these numbers have changed drastically - we have less than one million under arms including not just active, but reserve forces. The military share of our national budget is less than one third what it was when Eisenhower gave his farewell address.

What is chosen to be ignored is his other warning, "As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering for our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow." We have, in the name of compassion mortgaged not only our grandchildren's material assists, but their enjoying their political and spiritual heritage that was passed down to us.

It is our crushing debt and unfunded obligations (particularly 'entitlement' program) that are destroying our freedom. not some bogeyman corporation. Stop listening to politicians that say spending even more of the monies that we do not have on 'stimulus' programs or destroying our energy future in the phantom wish for 'green' energy.


Well said!:BigApplause: