Draft?

[Guest]

I'm wondering what the party's feelings are on reinstituting the draft? I know my Dem friends are in disagreement with it but for the record this is one area I'm firmly for..Pls gang of 6, don't let that sway your judgement..

I read the article in today's sun Rep Howard Buck McKeon warned the House Armed Services committee that any cuts above the amt agreed to by the congress and pres sould result in reinstituting the draft..

I see so many advantges to doing this that it is unimaginable to me why we aren't doing it, providing we take the class deference and corruption that previously existed out of it..

1-forced service instills pride/self esteem/patriotism, and opens kids eyes to what the "real world " is all about..

2-exposes the underpriviledged to something other than the characters on the block,ie gangs/drug dealers

3- ends wars quickly as the rich would not support them, because their kids were on the line too

4-Teaches how to come together by better understanding those that are different than us...

I know there are negatives too,but to me the good far outweighs the bad..I know there is one conservative at least on here that went through the draft as did I..How do you feel about it?

[Guest]

.....does it always have to be partisan intended? "party's view"?
How about a straight forward, what do you think of the draft?

Answer: I am all for the draft being mandatory. Always have been as long as I can remember. The positives you list and many more far out weigh any negatives.

Unfortunately in this day and age and mix in America it is a wasted and mis-understood concept. Just watch the politicians do the dance if the subject ever even gets any more air time. Their dance would be to worry how to represent the subject that keeps their re-electability in tact....NOT what is good for America.

btk....no R or D required!!:)

[Guest]

I'm wondering what the party's feelings are on reinstituting the draft? I know my Dem friends are in disagreement with it but for the record this is one area I'm firmly for..Pls gang of 6, don't let that sway your judgement..

I read the article in today's sun Rep Howard Buck McKeon warned the House Armed Services committee that any cuts above the amt agreed to by the congress and pres sould result in reinstituting the draft..

I see so many advantges to doing this that it is unimaginable to me why we aren't doing it, providing we take the class deference and corruption that previously existed out of it..

1-forced service instills pride/self esteem/patriotism, and opens kids eyes to what the "real world " is all about..

2-exposes the underpriviledged to something other than the characters on the block,ie gangs/drug dealers

3- ends wars quickly as the rich would not support them, because their kids were on the line too

4-Teaches how to come together by better understanding those that are different than us...

I know there are negatives too,but to me the good far outweighs the bad..I know there is one conservative at least on here that went through the draft as did I..How do you feel about it?

I am very very much for the return of the draft. Besides those positives you listed, simply the forcing young people to experience the discipline would make our society better. There are those who oppose it for many good reasons, but most men I have spoken to on this subject obviously did not like it hanging over their head but once the experience was behind them, most of them agreed it was a positive thing in their life.

There is nothing about war including the draft that is good, but we need a military and, to me anyway, this is the only way to go. I have my doubts just because of the political climate but my vote is in.

Only question I would ask is since the draft disappeared women have become a much bigger part of the military and question becomes if they should also be considered for the draft.

[Guest]

Well, a draft would certainly make the public aware that we are fighting 3 wars simultaneously. One wonders if these wars would be so lengthy if the draft was reinstated 10 years ago.
Would students in college be protesting and the press show highlights every night on the television? I think the different demographics from a draft would be good. I think I read where the southern states supply more then their share of troops. I don't know if that is because of poverty or patriotism.
My answer would be that I think every citizen should serve this country in some sort of capacity.

[Guest]

If and when Americans have had the need to defend, we have historically done so. To be forced into military service to gain self esteem,pride, avoid gang involvement, etc, is not the job of the government. Our public schools have failed at attempts to do these things, which they were not charged to do in the first place. These are values that should be instilled into a person by their family. The job of the military is to defend our country by breaking things and killing enemies, not training up adult children. I would prefer that the defenders of our country are there because they choose to be there, not because it is mandatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MiD_U4CHQ

[Guest]

In schools today the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance is under fire and students now have an "opt out" to prevent the compulsory oration of this oath to God and Country.

Many more school districts than not, are no longer teaching a patriotic view of American History as we were taught in school to promote love of country as well as historical instruction.

I'm not sure what this all bodes for our future, but it's something else to think about in regards to the idea of reinstating compulsory military service in this country.

[Guest]

In schools today the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance is under fire and students now have an "opt out" to prevent the compulsory oration of this oath to God and Country.

Many more school districts than not, are no longer teaching a patriotic view of American History as we were taught in school to promote love of country as well as historical instruction.

I'm not sure what this all bodes for our future, but it's something else to think about in regards to the idea of reinstating compulsory military service in this country.


Excellent points! One has to wonder who's interpretation of "patriotism" will be learned at the mandatory service? Heck, we few people on this forum can't even agree on that!

[Guest]

I like the idea of reinstating the draft. Although I wasn't drafted , it helped me make the decision of what I wanted to do with my life. I joined voluntarily and it it was a life changing experience. For a young man barely 20 years of age and had never been out of the state he was born in, it was very exciting and I did alot of growing up in those 4 years.

[Guest]

Well, a draft would certainly make the public aware that we are fighting 3 wars simultaneously. One wonders if these wars would be so lengthy if the draft was reinstated 10 years ago.
Would students in college be protesting and the press show highlights every night on the television? I think the different demographics from a draft would be good. I think I read where the southern states supply more then their share of troops. I don't know if that is because of poverty or patriotism.
My answer would be that I think every citizen should serve this country in some sort of capacity.

I served my country by protesting the war in Viet Nam....does that count? :cus:

[Guest]

I waver on this issue.

I see the benefits of the draft but I also see one huge drawback.

Our military was never in sorrier shape than when we had conscription. Take a fighting force and fill it with people who do NOT want to be in the service, never mind a war zone, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Our military quality on every measurable scale I've ever seen from morale to readiness is improved due to the fact that we have an all-volunteer service. Everyone who IS there, CHOSE to be there.

Those two sides are still having arguments in my head.

[Guest]

I waver on this issue.

I see the benefits of the draft but I also see one huge drawback.

Our military was never in sorrier shape than when we had conscription. Take a fighting force and fill it with people who do NOT want to be in the service, never mind a war zone, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Our military quality on every measurable scale I've ever seen from morale to readiness is improved due to the fact that we have an all-volunteer service. Everyone who IS there, CHOSE to be there.

Those two sides are still having arguments in my head.

How did you base your assumptions? I was drafted into the Army and the morale was great. I went in years later when there was no war and morale was terrible. Once your into basic training, they know how to instill morale.
The war in VietNam had soldiers with the highest level of education then any other war in history.
I do not believe an all volunteer army gets the best qualified troops.

[Guest]

I feel we should reinstate the draft so that the pain of war is a shared experience.

My family doesn't need a draft....we have 3 serving right now.

Gunnery Sargent UMSC
Captain USA Reserve
Lieutenant US Navy

[Guest]

dp..first time I've disagreed with you..the soldiers that served in vietnam are some of the finest this country ever produced..they never lost a battle and if they had been left alone to do the job,without Johnson/Mcnamara sticking their noses into it they'd have won..the media's portrait of the war during Tet was the turning point..It weakened the country's resolve..The sad fact is we actually had the war won but were too stupid to recognize it..

The draft is a great thing and it makes you a better person..Like a previous poster said, the military has it's ways and patriotism is no problem...Our military today is far too overtaxed mentally and physically...Three to five deployments to a war zone has a way of really messing you up, if you actually survive..It is estimated that there are over 5000 vets, from all wars, suffering from ptsd and living in the woods in the tri-county area...Very sad indeed..

[Guest]

dp..first time I've disagreed with you..the soldiers that served in vietnam are some of the finest this country ever produced..they never lost a battle and if they had been left alone to do the job,without Johnson/Mcnamara sticking their noses into it they'd have won..the media's portrait of the war during Tet was the turning point..It weakened the country's resolve..The sad fact is we actually had the war won but were too stupid to recognize it..

The draft is a great thing and it makes you a better person..Like a previous poster said, the military has it's ways and patriotism is no problem...Our military today is far too overtaxed mentally and physically...Three to five deployments to a war zone has a way of really messing you up, if you actually survive..It is estimated that there are over 5000 vets, from all wars, suffering from ptsd and living in the woods in the tri-county area...Very sad indeed..
Wow, this is a milestone to be sure- I agree with hrp01. (you need a nickname)
We are overtaxing these troops big time. If the USA stays on this military course, we should involve all of our citizenry.

[Guest]

I like the nickname you gave me...Moonbat...kinda has a ring to it.

[Guest]

I like the nickname you gave me...Moonbat...kinda has a ring to it.

Correction, I mentioned the name Moonbat and you said you never heard of it before. You adopted the name for yourself. Not a bad miniker, I guess.;)

[Guest]

I feel we should reinstate the draft so that the pain of war is a shared experience.

My family doesn't need a draft....we have 3 serving right now.

Gunnery Sargent UMSC
Captain USA Reserve
Lieutenant US Navy

We all owe your family members, and those left at home when they deploy, a big thank you. :BigApplause:

I'm not sure what I really believe on this issue though. I was drafted and wasn't happy about it, but did what I had to do. I'm a little unsure about this just as DJ has said.

[Guest]

Ritchie,whbat year were you drafted?...Did they have a lottery or was it before?..I know the climate changed dramatically when they started the "vietnamization" and I think that was the early 70's..Anyways I know the thoughts were a lot different after we new we were leaving...

[Guest]

If I remember correctly, I was drafted in the fall of 1969 and a month or so later they came up with the number system.

I just binged it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_lottery_(1969)

[Guest]

djp you are 100% wrong.

I was drafted...the battle group I was assigned to in Europe was comprised of both RA (regular Army who volunteered) and those of us who were drafted (US designated). There was no distinction except for mild jabbing in competitive situations. When it came to serving and protecting there was absolutely no distinguishable level of competence, or morale, or quality of person....NONE.

\I was married and in college when my number came up. I did not like being called away one bit, but did what was supposed to be done like all the rest in the uniform.

Your account sounds to me like an intellectual extrapolation more than reality.

btk

[Guest]

Let me preface this by saying I enlisted in the Army in 1966. Well over half our basic training company were draftees.

The draft system during Vietnam time was so full of loopholes that anyone who wanted to slip through the loopholes could do so easily. Guys with important fathers got into the National Guard; others got deferrments for divinity school; student deferrments for over 4 years; hardship deferrments; medical deferrments for minor ailments; etc.

During the Vietnam era, lots of young men made the trip to Canada because of their beliefs that the US did not belong in Vietnam (which was correct). These guys were called cowards but I have to give them a lot of credit for their personal beliefs. We lost over 58,000 American lives for nothing.

Should there be a draft now? No, because it was not administered fairly before and would be just the same now. The volunteer Army is doing fine - good wages and good benefits.

[Guest]

Let me preface this by saying I enlisted in the Army in 1966. Well over half our basic training company were draftees.

The draft system during Vietnam time was so full of loopholes that anyone who wanted to slip through the loopholes could do so easily. Guys with important fathers got into the National Guard; others got deferrments for divinity school; student deferrments for over 4 years; hardship deferrments; medical deferrments for minor ailments; etc.

During the Vietnam era, lots of young men made the trip to Canada because of their beliefs that the US did not belong in Vietnam (which was correct). These guys were called cowards but I have to give them a lot of credit for their personal beliefs. We lost over 58,000 American lives for nothing.

Should there be a draft now? No, because it was not administered fairly before and would be just the same now. The volunteer Army is doing fine - good wages and good benefits.

:agree:

[Guest]

When you go to basic training and get your haircuts and uniforms, you cannot distinguish from a regular army or draftee or National Guard or reservists. As for most people who hadn't the guts to be drafted that I knew, they had no high ideals as they were only 19 years old and hadn't been exposed to college instigating professors. Yes, they were afraid for their lives or leaving their girlfriends. Of the few I knew, they are too embarrassed to talk about it.

[Guest]

Thank you for agreeing with me, Katz.

That was a terrible waste of over 58,000 American lives for a civil war the US should not have been involved with.

[Guest]

buggy one, the sad thing about Vietnam is we did not learn anything from it..we are still trying to be the world's police force, and a younger generation is paying with their lives...Katz,the size of our military, along with the committments made by the powers that be ,have way overtaxed their capability...And our wallets..

By the article in today's paper regarding ISIS, looks like Pakistan will be next..Sure hope not as I'd lkike to see them all blow themselves up,without our help..

[Guest]

I will make my reply simple. The state does not have the moral right to conscript anyone. This is involuntary servitude, plain and simple. This is a view held by such leaders as Ron Paul and Ronald Regan, who as Govener of Califronia signed a petititon to end conscription.

[Guest]

Thank you for agreeing with me, Katz.

That was a terrible waste of over 58,000 American lives for a civil war the US should not have been involved with.

It really bothers me when someone says that many of my friends died for nothing. It bothers me more then being spit on.:cus:

[Guest]

This conversation should only be discussed between folks that have served in combat.

[Guest]

This conversation should only be discussed between folks that have served in combat.

Because..............

[Guest]

I can fully understand someone's feelings when they are angry to have someone say their friends died for nothing. However, what was the reason that the US was in Vietnam? It was a civil war. It did not have American interest to defend. If you can tell me why the US should have been involved in Vietnam, I will be glad to hear.

[Guest]

Stopping communism. The domino effect. Of course left-leaning socialists would be incapable of understanding, And thanks to the commie draft-dodging cowards, congress defunded the war and hundreds of thousands of our South Vietnamese friends were killed or imprisoned by the communists. But I guess that was OK, huh? And after we pulled out millions were slaughtered in Cambodia. The Killing Fields. But that was OK huh, Just communists killing liberty loving people. Liberal cowards actually make me sick to my stomach.

What's with liberals? They think that yellow-skinned people are not human?

[Guest]

Thank you for agreeing with me, Katz.

That was a terrible waste of over 58,000 American lives for a civil war the US should not have been involved with.

I was there from March 67 to March 68. Biggest waste of life and money I have ever seen.

[Guest]

Stopping communism. The domino effect. Of course left-leaning socialists would be incapable of understanding, And thanks to the commie draft-dodging cowards, congress defunded the war and hundreds of thousands of our South Vietnamese friends were killed or imprisoned by the communists. But I guess that was OK, huh? And after we pulled out millions were slaughtered in Cambodia. The Killing Fields. But that was OK huh, Just communists killing liberty loving people. Liberal cowards actually make me sick to my stomach.

What's with liberals? They think that yellow-skinned people are not human?

To be fair, some right leaning liberaterians don't understand that as well. For good reason.

[Guest]

Stopping communism. The domino effect. Of course left-leaning socialists would be incapable of understanding, And thanks to the commie draft-dodging cowards, congress defunded the war and hundreds of thousands of our South Vietnamese friends were killed or imprisoned by the communists. But I guess that was OK, huh? And after we pulled out millions were slaughtered in Cambodia. The Killing Fields. But that was OK huh, Just communists killing liberty loving people. Liberal cowards actually make me sick to my stomach.

What's with liberals? They think that yellow-skinned people are not human?

The domino effect.....To borrow a phrase from someone you might admire:

"Thats a bit of an olde chestnut!"

[Guest]

Stopping communism. The domino effect. Of course left-leaning socialists would be incapable of understanding, And thanks to the commie draft-dodging cowards, congress defunded the war and hundreds of thousands of our South Vietnamese friends were killed or imprisoned by the communists. But I guess that was OK, huh? And after we pulled out millions were slaughtered in Cambodia. The Killing Fields. But that was OK huh, Just communists killing liberty loving people. Liberal cowards actually make me sick to my stomach.

What's with liberals? They think that yellow-skinned people are not human?

I stand corrected. I have also since discussed with my two brother-in-laws who served (both volunteered to go). Due to what they have told me and Villagegolfer's post, I have to bow out of this conversation. I do not like war, and doubt that I could do what you all have done. I'd like to think that I would defend my home with all I that is in me! I just don't know what that is until it happens I guess.

[Guest]

The domino effect.....To borrow a phrase from someone you might admire:

"Thats a bit of an olde chestnut!"

Yea, well would you turn your back on a friend and have them killed by communists. Easy to stand back and criticize if you never had to help friends defend their freedom. The liberal cowards have blood on their hands and no amount of rationalizing will wash the stain from their ignorant ideals.

[Guest]

I stand corrected. I have also since discussed with my two brother-in-laws who served (both volunteered to go). Due to what they have told me and Villagegolfer's post, I have to bow out of this conversation. I do not like war, and doubt that I could do what you all have done. I'd like to think that I would defend my home with all I that is in me! I just don't know what that is until it happens I guess.

Yes, defending a home. I was invited and spent time in those South Vietnamese

homes. I had Vietnamese friends that were scouts for our platoon. I often wonder what they think of me and my friends that were helping them win their freedom and protecting them from the communists. But of course what would you expect from liberals who do not blink an eye when babies are killed. Millions of real people with souls died because of the evacuation from VietNam.

[Guest]

Yes, defending a home. I was invited and spent time in those South Vietnamese

homes. I had Vietnamese friends that were scouts for our platoon. I often wonder what they think of me and my friends that were helping them win their freedom and protecting them from the communists. But of course what would you expect from liberals who do not blink an eye when babies are killed. Millions of real people with souls died because of the evacuation from VietNam.

:ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear: :ohdear:

[Guest]

Maybe there are other options to require the involvement of our young people in the service of our country. The draft is just one. Based on almost ten years of my own personal military service, there is a helluva lot to be gained and learned from the experience. A required two years of service to the country--the military being one option--would be a terrific idea.

One thing would be for sure--the sacrifice for our country wouldn't be limited to only a small percentage of U.S. families. If the responsibility were shared more broadly, my guess is that the electorate would be a whole lot "involved" in the decisions (or failure to make decisions) of our elected representatives.

[Guest]

Maybe there are other options to require the involvement of our young people in the service of our country. The draft is just one. Based on almost ten years of my own personal military service, there is a helluva lot to be gained and learned from the experience. A required two years of service to the country--the military being one option--would be a terrific idea.

One thing would be for sure--the sacrifice for our country wouldn't be limited to only a small percentage of U.S. families. If the responsibility were shared more broadly, my guess is that the electorate would be a whole lot "involved" in the decisions (or failure to make decisions) of our elected representatives.

For once we agree. Everybody benefits from a secure border. Why should just a minority bare the duties? All the eggheads and anti -America jerks get a free pass and also get to criticize the very people who keep this country free.

[Guest]

Could you please explain your condescending icons?

I thought those icons called "oh dear", looked liked people sadly shaking their heads at your post, especially these statements... But of course what would you expect from liberals who do not blink an eye when babies are killed. Millions of real people with souls died because of the evacuation from VietNam.

[Guest]

I thought those icons called "oh dear", looked liked people sadly shaking their heads at your post, especially these statements... But of course what would you expect from liberals who do not blink an eye when babies are killed. Millions of real people with souls died because of the evacuation from VietNam.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought those were disapproving icons. I deleted my post. Again, it was just a communication error. My bad.

[Guest]

BG: I know about the "domino effect" and I certainly agree with it - to a point.

Now, granted I was pretty young while Vietnam was actually going. But from what I've seen and read (like finding out that Tet was *really* a victory for our side) since then, and from talking to Vietname vets, I have my own opinions.

The draft-dodgers were a non-effect. We had plenty of troops.

We also had a Congress tying the hands of our military. Why? Because, I honestly believe, of the effect of something that had never happened before - televised war coverage. It brought the war into the living room EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and I think that had a rather chilling effect.

But there was also one other thing that doesn't get talked about too much but I DID hear from vets. That is, the South Vietnamese themselves. I've heard from a good many that they didn't really understand democracy, freedom and other concepts like that. The history of Vietnam is riddled with conquerors - all the way up to the French colonials. In a sense, it's the same problem we're having trying to establish a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan - the people have no deep-seeded appreciation and desire for such contructs in on far too many places. It's still tribal in HUGE swaths of the country.

Now, when you add to those problems the problems of seemingly corrupt or incompetent leaders, you compund the problem even more. There's no WAY we could have 'won' Vietnam. Remember - we had a peace treaty with the North and, eventually, they just decided to march on down and there was nothing we could do to stop it.

[Guest]

I'm wondering what the party's feelings are on reinstituting the draft? I know my Dem friends are in disagreement with it but for the record this is one area I'm firmly for..Pls gang of 6, don't let that sway your judgement..

I read the article in today's sun Rep Howard Buck McKeon warned the House Armed Services committee that any cuts above the amt agreed to by the congress and pres sould result in reinstituting the draft..

I see so many advantges to doing this that it is unimaginable to me why we aren't doing it, providing we take the class deference and corruption that previously existed out of it..

1-forced service instills pride/self esteem/patriotism, and opens kids eyes to what the "real world " is all about..

2-exposes the underpriviledged to something other than the characters on the block,ie gangs/drug dealers

3- ends wars quickly as the rich would not support them, because their kids were on the line too

4-Teaches how to come together by better understanding those that are different than us...

I know there are negatives too,but to me the good far outweighs the bad..I know there is one conservative at least on here that went through the draft as did I..How do you feel about it?

In my opinion, the question shouldn't be what are your "feelings are on reinstituting the draft?" The question is, what do you think about the proposed spending cuts that generated the statements and discussion on reinstating the draft with the Armed Services Committee in the first place?

[Guest]

BG: I know about the "domino effect" and I certainly agree with it - to a point.

Now, granted I was pretty young while Vietnam was actually going. But from what I've seen and read (like finding out that Tet was *really* a victory for our side) since then, and from talking to Vietname vets, I have my own opinions.

The draft-dodgers were a non-effect. We had plenty of troops.

We also had a Congress tying the hands of our military. Why? Because, I honestly believe, of the effect of something that had never happened before - televised war coverage. It brought the war into the living room EVERY SINGLE NIGHT and I think that had a rather chilling effect.

But there was also one other thing that doesn't get talked about too much but I DID hear from vets. That is, the South Vietnamese themselves. I've heard from a good many that they didn't really understand democracy, freedom and other concepts like that. The history of Vietnam is riddled with conquerors - all the way up to the French colonials. In a sense, it's the same problem we're having trying to establish a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan - the people have no deep-seeded appreciation and desire for such contructs in on far too many places. It's still tribal in HUGE swaths of the country.

Now, when you add to those problems the problems of seemingly corrupt or incompetent leaders, you compund the problem even more. There's no WAY we could have 'won' Vietnam. Remember - we had a peace treaty with the North and, eventually, they just decided to march on down and there was nothing we could do to stop it.

I don't know about the draft dodger's being non-effect. The 3 networks would constantly televise the protesters. I don't think they would give the public differing views. Watching the protesters every night for years gave the audience the impression that everybody was against the war. Kind if a brain-washing nature, in my opinion.
It was sort of happening while Bush was in office, but the Code Pink and that Sheehan women disappeared when Obama took office. Funny how that happens.;)

[Guest]

Yea, well would you turn your back on a friend and have them killed by communists. Easy to stand back and criticize if you never had to help friends defend their freedom. The liberal cowards have blood on their hands and no amount of rationalizing will wash the stain from their ignorant ideals.

We may not agree on this but that is no reason for name calling.

The domino effect was a theory....

I did NOT protest the war in Vietnam but I did support getting out. I missed out on going to the University of Colorado because of the war. My parents were afraid to send me there due to all the protests. So they shipped me off to a Catholic college in Dodge City, KS.

Not all Democrats are liberal, as you just pointed out to me in another thread....

And Thank You for your service.....

[Guest]

We may not agree on this but that is no reason for name calling.

The domino effect was a theory....

I did NOT protest the war in Vietnam but I did support getting out. I missed out on going to the University of Colorado because of the war. My parents were afraid to send me there due to all the protests. So they shipped me off to a Catholic college in Dodge City, KS.

Not all Democrats are liberal, as you just pointed out to me in another thread....

And Thank You for your service.....

Well, I was called names when I came home but your right, it is kind of late for a tit for tat.

And thank you for thanking me.:0000000000luvmyhors

[Guest]

As has been reported in the news over the years there are many many honorable men and women serving. However due to recruiting goals standards continually were lower to meet those goals. As a result the military is experiencing higher crime ratres, including rapes. We now see that the military has waived the "don't ask don't tell which I believe has opened a pandora's box. I volunteered and served proudly for four years.

I have alwyas believed that the draft is an essential tool for our defense for all those reasons cited by others in previous posts. The day will arrive when we won't be able to afford a volunteer military. Keep in mind one of the main reasons Rome fell was because their armies at the end were mostly mercenaries and they fought for whoever paid them more.

I have written senators for many years about bring back the draft. It is essential they we do. For those who want to hide in Candada along with the draft make it a law that if they flee they can't come back

[Guest]

As has been reported in the news over the years there are many many honorable men and women serving. However due to recruiting goals standards continually were lower to meet those goals. As a result the military is experiencing higher crime ratres, including rapes. We now see that the military has waived the "don't ask don't tell which I believe has opened a pandora's box. I volunteered and served proudly for four years.

I have alwyas believed that the draft is an essential tool for our defense for all those reasons cited by others in previous posts. The day will arrive when we won't be able to afford a volunteer military. Keep in mind one of the main reasons Rome fell was because their armies at the end were mostly mercenaries and they fought for whoever paid them more.

I have written senators for many years about bring back the draft. It is essential they we do. For those who want to hide in Candada along with the draft make it a law that if they flee they can't come back

I agree with you 100%. Ask the idiots who were captured on the Iranian border and imprisoned how they feel being back in the good old USA. The draft should be re-instituted and the old deferments eliminated. Everybody in this country should serve in one capacity or another.

This is a great country because people in the past sacrificed their life or their time to make it free. Believe it or not but back in the 1700's their were liberals and cowards that did not contribute to our freedom and I guess their DNA is still here and accounted for.

[Guest]

In May of 1777 Thomas Jefferson wrote the following to John Adams-

Our battalions for the continental service were some time ago so far filled as rendered the recommendation of a draught from the militia hardly requisite, and the more so as in this country it ever was the most unpopular and impracticable thing that could be attempted. Our people, even under the monarchical government, had learnt to consider it as the last of all oppressions.

"The last of all opressions". I like that and would be proud to have that kind of DNA!

[Guest]

There may be good reasons for instituting the draft, but forced patriotism isn't one of them.

In WWI and WWII we had no trouble getting people to enlist. Heck, after Pearl Harbor, there were LINES outside recruiting offices.

The idea of forcing people into servitude and claim some higher moral pf "teaching patriotism" just strikes me as un-American. It's akin to (but NOT equal to) the kind of propaganda you see in totalitarian states.

True patriotism comes from within - you don't impose it externally. Nobody forced me to love my country. Nobody demanded it of me. I have my feelings for this country purely from my own experiences. I can't tell you how I felt when I finally got my passport after 20 years of trying, to give you one example.

As I said, there may be other good reasons for a draft, but please don't use that reason.

[Guest]

Right! Haven't we come to the realization that involuntary servitude is immoral?

[Guest]

In May of 1777 Thomas Jefferson wrote the following to John Adams-



"The last of all opressions". I like that and would be proud to have that kind of DNA!

It is indeed a more complex world now than then .Our troops are hardly treated as servants. Is two years of service to your country too much of a sacriface for the preservation of our democracy?

[Guest]

It is indeed a more complex world now than then .Our troops are hardly treated as servants. Is two years of service to your country too much of a sacriface for the preservation of our democracy?

It is not a question of sacriface, it is a question of morality. Involuntary servitute is just wrong. Jefferson knew it, and that type of morality does not change over time.

[Guest]

In all due respect that is like saying "its not about the money"

[Guest]

It is indeed a more complex world now than then .Our troops are hardly treated as servants. Is two years of service to your country too much of a sacriface for the preservation of our democracy?

You are absolutely right. Since our school system does not teach the children social responsibility a draft should be mandatory. As for the cowards, give them some sort of social duty.

[Guest]

You are absolutely right. Since our school system does not teach the children social responsibility a draft should be mandatory. As for the cowards, give them some sort of social duty.

I find it very offensive to label everyone who opposes involuntary servitude as a coward. Many, like me, have a well grounded belief that conscription is immoral. That belief is shared with Americans from Jefferson to Ron Paul.

[Guest]

I find it very offensive to label everyone who opposes involuntary servitude as a coward. Many, like me, have a well grounded belief that conscription is immoral. That belief is shared with Americans from Jefferson to Ron Paul.

I respect your point of view, and understand your desire to be your own man. I too have a deep commitment to my independence. However you continually use the quote "I am not number, "I am a free man" D oh. I know you realize that being a free man isn't something that's come to you of an accidental nature but because those so called immoral servitudes recognized that freedom requires cost and sacrifice.

So it logically follows that those who have abided by their military obligation would not exactly be enamored with those who push such views. Paul like Jefferson are known to have recalcitrant natures

I think about what you have said and then think back to my cousin Tom who served 4 years in the Air Force and then volunteered two tours of duty in Nam
all because he loved his country....God rest his moral and free soul.

Once again I sincerely respect your point of view and would defend your right to express it.

[Guest]

I find it very offensive to label everyone who opposes involuntary servitude as a coward. Many, like me, have a well grounded belief that conscription is immoral. That belief is shared with Americans from Jefferson to Ron Paul.

Sorry to offend you but I still hold my ground firmly. It took thousands of brave souls to make this country free. Why should some gene pools get a free ride?

[Guest]

A simple question: If you feel so strongly about the military, why did you wait until you were drafted? Why didn't you enlist (and stay in for your 20 years?) Just a simple question.

[Guest]

I served my country by protesting the war in Viet Nam....does that count? :cus:

What else did you do that was good for the country?

[Guest]

A simple question: If you feel so strongly about the military, why did you wait until you were drafted? Why didn't you enlist (and stay in for your 20 years?) Just a simple question.

I did enlist, I did stay in for 20 years. Is that good enough for you? Freedom comes with a cost, but I guess that you are not willing to pay your fair share of the cost.

[Guest]

While all are entitled to their opinion, if one was not in the military...drafted, volunteered or otherwise...one cannot really tag the participation as slavery or what ever other negative signatory is assigned.

I do know for sure those of us in the military, regardless how inducted, did not feel forced to do anything. Yes it is a view of a minority for a plethora of reasons, but please don't dishonor those involved with your prejudiced terminology.

As far as the discussion regarding Viet Nam and "a war we could not win"....just what is any different in the current wars we are involved in? Ten years in Afghanistan? Too many years in Iraq? Does anybody believe these are wars we could win? Whether Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq, if left to the military to win they would do so. Since the agendas of these wars are political, there will never be any such event as a military winning allowed. The opposing military forces know this as well, hence they can take forever refining the methods used to on a regular basis to pick off the lives of our troops.

What I find amusing is the rhetoric that tends to be dispensed by some in the name of those who oppose or opposed the draft, that it is some negative intent like involuntary servitude or what ever else makes them feel better about their position.

There have been no presidents since Truman who are willing to give the order to do or use what ever it takes to win a given war.

Of the billions who inhabit this planet, wars are games to be fought by the political rules of a very few of the top governing politicians in each country involved. The boots on the ground are a resource for them to manipulate.

Anytime the word would be given to the American military to win, that war would be over in a very short time. I firmly believe in not getting into any conflict we are NOT prepared to WIN!

btk

[Guest]

Just to clear up a couple of points. Conscription is involuntary servetude, by defination. Neither you or I can change that. Now having said that, I admire those who have voluntered to serve in the military. That is their free choice and we should admire that.
Now about the avater and signiture. I have changed them back to solely honor the television series, "The Prisoner". The first time I came to The Villages, the similarity struck me. I tried to blend the Simpsons there, for some humor, but this works fine.
"Be seeing you."

[Guest]

There have been many governments that controlled the people in history. People were not free. You could say that they were in a involuntary servitude.
I see no harm in serving your country to help maintain the freedom that many of our ancestors gave their life and limbs for.

[Guest]

It is interesting how creative people can become when they want to avoid their moral and social obligations . I just wonder if they ever run out of excuses?

[Guest]

It is interesting how creative people can become when they want to avoid their moral and social obligations . I just wonder if they ever run out of excuses?

You have to remember that many did not want to fight for their freedom from England. Apparently the milquetoast DNA has carried throughout the centuries.

[Guest]

It is interesting how creative people can become when they want to avoid their moral and social obligations . I just wonder if they ever run out of excuses?

Let me try this one more time. The vast, vast majority of citizens who hold the libertarian prinicpal that conscription is immoral, would and did serve their country. For those who believe that this is an easy way to avoid service, well what can I say. Ron Paul, for instance, served in the Air Force during the Viet Nam war. I would not question his patriotism. Don't question mine.
Be seeing you.

[Guest]

Let me try this one more time. The vast, vast majority of citizens who hold the libertarian prinicpal that conscription is immoral, would and did serve their country. For those who believe that this is an easy way to avoid service, well what can I say. Ron Paul, for instance, served in the Air Force during the Viet Nam war. I would not question his patriotism. Don't question mine.
Be seeing you.

So you don't think some would join the ranks of libertarian solely because of the draft-dodging principal?

[Guest]

So you don't think some would join the ranks of libertarian solely because of the draft-dodging principal?

Sure, but I also suspect there are a lot of "chicken hawks" or "sunshine patriots" who talk a good game about patriotism, and run when they are most needed.

[Guest]

Sure, but I also suspect there are a lot of "chicken hawks" or "sunshine patriots" who talk a good game about patriotism, and run when they are most needed.

I seen my share in the late 60's and early 70's. Some came back from Canada and some stayed.

Did you know that many guys from the Revolutionary War ran to Canada when the action started. Apparently the millquetoast DNA goes back hundreds of years.

[Guest]

Let me try this one more time. The vast, vast majority of citizens who hold the libertarian prinicpal that conscription is immoral, would and did serve their country. For those who believe that this is an easy way to avoid service, well what can I say. Ron Paul, for instance, served in the Air Force during the Viet Nam war. I would not question his patriotism. Don't question mine.
Be seeing you.

Did you serve? I did and I freely joined.

[Guest]

Figmo, I know you did enlist and did serve 20 years in the Army. I was not addressing you when I asked why a certain someone had to wait until he was drafted and now talks so patriotic.

I, also, enlisted in the Army, Figmo. I did not stay for 20 years. I stayed for 3 years and then worked at the Veterans Administration for 36 years helping veterans. I think that counts for something, don't you?

[Guest]

Figmo, I know you did enlist and did serve 20 years in the Army. I was not addressing you when I asked why a certain someone had to wait until he was drafted and now talks so patriotic.

I, also, enlisted in the Army, Figmo. I did not stay for 20 years. I stayed for 3 years and then worked at the Veterans Administration for 36 years helping veterans. I think that counts for something, don't you?

Being smug is very unbecoming. Yes, I was drafted and I did not run to Canada.

Yes, I was in one of the most Gung-Ho units in VietNam. I was patriotic before I was drafted. I waited to get drafted before I enlisted because I had a paternal obligation that I had to see through. I'll match my military record with you any day.

[Guest]

I too was drafted. I was married and in college. I chose to NOT pursue a military career, however when called, I did my duty as well as the next guy RA or other.
There was always a "friendly" jousting between RA's and those who were drafted. There was NEVER ANY QUESTION ABOUT ONE'S PATRIOTISM BASED ON WHETHER THEY ENLISTED OR NOT.

That kind of snipping just did not happen.

It is a below the belt comment/allegation an just not called for!!!!!

btk