Golf cart insurance for rentals

[lightworker888]

I just called Allstate and discovered that our golf cart coverage no longer includes renters. Apparently there have been so many claims for rental carts that Allstate is no longer including them. Even if they are just given permissive use, the company is going to be changing that in a couple of months, which could happen before the winter rental time. The Allstate gal also said that if the renters hit someone, then the owner of the cart is liable and that is not covered if the renters are driving the cart.

Has anyone figured out how to get insurance on the cart for the renters? Any input is welcomed.

LW888

[tkret]

I just called Allstate and discovered that our golf cart coverage no longer includes renters. Apparently there have been so many claims for rental carts that Allstate is no longer including them. The Allstate gal also said that if the renters hit someone, then the owner of the cart is liable and that is not covered if the renters are driving the cart.

LW888

LW888 ... I was in my insurance agent's office just a couple of days ago and you are quite right! Allstate along with the other insurance companies will NOT honor a policy in which a renter is driving. My independent agent claims that the front-line employees for Allstate were not aware of this until recently when the top level folks denied a claim and left the cart owner high and dry and on his own.

[golf2140]

Great post, thanks for the information. Maybe less renters on the roads.

[lightworker888]

Has anyone found a solution to this?


LW888

[borjo]

I called our local office that we have the insurance through. They said they do not know what the final decision will be. I should check back at the end of this month.

[nitehawk]

:bigbow:

[Bosoxfan]

I wonder if that applies to visitors as well, not just renters.

[lightworker888]

currently if you give permission to someone to use the golf cart, they are covered but if it is in a lease then they are not.

However, the powers that be are in the process of changing their stand and that is what we are waiting for. My challenge is what to say and do about renters that are lined up for the winter as the ruling is apparently coming down in the next few months.

I am checking with the lawyer to see if there is a release form that will stand up in court that will waive our liability.

The insurance gal said that regardless of the current waiver that our renters have signed, if they hit someone, we could be sued as we own the cart.

I find it all very confusing and think that there must be some solution that is a win-win considering all the number of owners who rent out their places with golf carts.

Anymore info would be apreciated and I will post whatever I find out when I hear back from the lawyer.

LW888

[l2ridehd]

I checked with my insurance company and as with others, it appears to be "under review". Not real sure what that will cause for an out come, but it is sure to have an impact. When I first set mine up, I added a significant umbrella policy to my insurance that will also cover rental property. Not sure if that will help, be required, or have any impact once they make a decision.

There are several people who rent carts as a business and they have to have insurance available. So it will be available, it is just a matter of at what cost. Either way it will impact the rental business which will impact the home sales business. I was going to buy another rental property, but for now will wait and see where this issue lands. Almost any solution will add cost someplace.

[tkret]

I am checking with the lawyer to see if there is a release form that will stand up in court that will waive our liability.

The insurance gal said that regardless of the current waiver that our renters have signed, if they hit someone, we could be sued as we own the cart.

Anymore info would be apreciated and I will post whatever I find out when I hear back from the lawyer.

LW888

I'm not an attorney and I'm wondering if this will "fly". I sign a separate agreement with a renter that, in the even they cause injury or damage, I can go after them if/when someone is successful against me the owner of the cart. Thus, if the renter uses the cart and causes, let's say, $10,000 property damage (and more for personal injury) and I make the injured party whole, I then can sue the renter for the same amount plus fees to make ME whole.
Any attorneys out there who can shed some light on this?

[dillywho]

Maybe it would be best not to furnish a cart with the rental and just rent for a few dollars less. They could then rent a cart from someone in the cart rental business.

[bimmertl]

The "rented to others" exclusion has been around forever. It's not surprising to me the crowd at the Allstate office wasn't aware of it, as there is plenty they don't know when it comes to actual policy language.

Florida has a "dangerous instrumentality" doctrine that makes owners of cars, golf carts etc. liable for damages caused by permissive users. You can always pursue the renter for damages you pay as a result of their negligence, however good luck with that.

Some insurance company's sell a policy to cover non owned vehicles but I don't know who they are. Don't think Allstate , SF, etc. do but might find somebody.

Bottom line, it's a mess!!

http://abnormaluse.com/2010/10/judge-made-law-floridas-dangerous.html

[tkret]

Florida has a "dangerous instrumentality" doctrine that makes owners of cars, golf carts etc. liable for damages caused by permissive users. You can always pursue the renter for damages you pay as a result of their negligence, however good luck with that.
Bottom line, it's a mess!!

http://abnormaluse.com/2010/10/judge-made-law-floridas-dangerous.html

bimmertl ..... excellent link. Many thanks for helping to get us educated on this subject.

[lightworker888]

because the cart is ours, an injured third party could sue us. She said that there is no legal document that we could create to absolve us of liability. The insurance company said to take out the cart clause in the lease and use the permissive use form for now. When the ruling comes down the agent said that all policy holders would be notified of the change and the policy may be unrenewable as it stands and a new policy would have to be issued.

We have issued a new lease w/out the golf cart and have a release form signed for it and our renters are looking into what their homeowner poiicy might cover.

I called a few golf cart rental places and they said that they do not cover the drivers and have a form signed. No one knows of any company that is currently issuing coverage to renters for golf carts. Sounds like a great opportunity for someone if the claims aren't too bad. I guess that the number of claims have increased so much that the insurance companies don't want to deal with them.

I am thinking that renting w/out the cart may be the best bet but can't do that this year.

Any other ideas?

LW888

[Carla B]

So what's an owner to do? There was a discussion here recently asking if prospective renters would look at a property without a cart. The majority said they'd want to rent a property with a cart.

[asianthree]

If we are not going to rent our golf carts out got any idea of where they will be stored if you only have a one plus golf cart garage? Where can the forms be found for golf cart use. Thanks

[renrod]

Does anyone have recent information, based on your recent contact with Allstate? I'm looking for facts, not opinions.
I've already read the OpEd section.:):):)

[eweissenbach]

We have rented a home for February and March and the rental included a cart. After we signed the contract the owner contacted us and said his insurer would not cover carts used by renters. He offered to lower the rental by the amount needed to rent a cart, to which we agreed. We have a cart reserved with Jim Followell for the period. All is well:duck:

[buzzy]

Does anyone have recent information, based on your recent contact with Allstate? I'm looking for facts, not opinions.
I've already read the OpEd section.:):):)

I just called my agent in Lady Lake, and she assured me that coverage for tenants was authorized, as before.

[renrod]

I just called my agent in Lady Lake, and she assured me that coverage for tenants was authorized, as before.

:bigbow:

[bimmertl]

I just called my agent in Lady Lake, and she assured me that coverage for tenants was authorized, as before.

Here is the exact language from my State Farm golf cart policy.

"There is no coverage while any vehicle insured under this section (Liability Coverage) is rented to others or used to carry persons for a charge".

If a rental agreement includes a golf cart, the cart is rented to others.

Generally, permissive users of the cart are insured as long as there is no fee. So if you let your neighbor use your cart, no problem. It's the rental agreement that brings in the exclusion of coverage.

You could always argue with the insurer that the golf cart was thrown in for free and no specific "rental" of the golf cart was stated. However, the use of the cart is contingent on a rental agreement of the property so I doubt that would fly.

The language isn't that hard to find in a policy. Take a look. It's typically listed in a section that's headed, When Coverge Doesn't Apply.

Doubt the "agent" or whoever answered the phone with that information has a clue what they are talking about. Fairly typical.

[chuckinca]

Just talked to my brother who has a rental that is usually furnished with a cart (he bought the cart for that purpose). He said he is no longer providing the cart to his renters and if I want, I can use the cart when he isn't in TV.

Sounds like the price of used carts will be going down.


.

[l2ridehd]

Some insurance agent and company will figure this out. There are over 2500 rental properties in TV. That is a lot of business to not find a way to make it work.

[buzzy]

Doubt the "agent" or whoever answered the phone with that information has a clue what they are talking about. Fairly typical.

OK, I'll dig out the policy and take a closer look at exclusions. However, last month I asked her, and she said that Allstate was going to make a decision in October. Today she said that they are "authorizing" coverage for renters. So, I think she understands the issue.

[bimmertl]

OK, I'll dig out the policy and take a closer look at exclusions. However, last month I asked her, and she said that Allstate was going to make a decision in October. Today she said that they are "authorizing" coverage for renters. So, I think she understands the issue.

The only written document you have regarding coverage is the policy and it's endorsements, which excludes coverage. If they suddenly "authorize" coverage for rental carts, get something in writing or it's a meaningless statement from the agency.

[2 Oldcrabs]

I am in a rental home now and told the owner to take the golf cart out because of no insurance. I was at the Allstate office in Palm Ridge, last week, checking on Insurance for our new home. I asked about the cart rental insurance. She said there is a new rule that came out Sept 1st that rental carts are not covered. She was not sure when it would take effect. Possible Jan 1st. She also said that "letters" will be sent.

[CTgolfer]

Our umbrella policy includes our golf carts. Any liabilities not covered by our auto, house, and golf cart insurances would be covered by our umbrella policy.

[lightworker888]

Do you have the umbrella poiicy with? Is it a different company than the one who has your other policies? How can all other eventualities be covered without specifics? Thanks for any info. It sounds like it could be worth looking into.

LW888

[CTgolfer]

Our umbrella policy is with Allstate, as is our auto and golf cart policies. The umbrella policy specifically states it covers 2 golf carts, our car, and our home. I will tell you that in getting other quotes for auto insurance and the umbrella policy, the other insurers I have tried would not cover the golf carts under the umbrella (e.g., 21st Century). When our policies come due, we usually shop around, so I'll check again in 2012.

[buggyone]

If I understand CTGolfer correctly, he is saying that his Allstate umbrella policy increases the amount the golf cart insurance, home insurance, and car insurance would pay for a claim. That is what umbrella coverage does.

I do not believe that an umbrella coverage would include a golf cart rented to someone.

Best idea probably is not to include a golf cart in a home rental. I am sure that an insurance company would not go along with "the cart is free with a home rental" - I bet the golf cart owner would end up being liable for damages and that could take all the fun out of being a landlord.

[bimmertl]

Umbrella policies are "excess" policies. They generally apply after the underlying policy insuring the involved vehicle is used up by offers or payments. So the policy on your golf cart is similar to a "deductible" when it comes to your umbrella policy.

In order to get an umbrella policy you usually have to have all your owned vehicles insured with prescribed limits. I have State Farm and in order to get their umbrella policy you need to have underlying limits on all cars and golf cart of 250/500/100. So my two cars and golf cart have those limits. It also sets out liability limit requirements for my homeowner policy.

Having an umbrella policy doesn't mean it automatically applies if you have a claim that's not covered by your underlying golf cart policy. This varies by company. So don't assume you'll have coverage under the umbrella policy if you or somebody else using your golf cart has a claim. If there isn't coverage from your golf cart policy, you may be responsible for the underlying limit amount before the umbrella applies. Again, this depends on policy language but it's important to remember the purpose of the umbrella policy is to provide coverage in excess of the primary policy applying to the involved vehicle, it is not intended to provide coverage from dollar one.

[Irish Rover]

This response is for Golf2140 - are you nuts. Do you have any idea how much money the renters bring to TV? Ask some of your fellow Villagers who rent their units what they would do without the income. You might also ask the restaurants, retail stores, bars and golf courses what they would do without the surge. Fewer renters driving carts, you should thank whoever you pray to that you have the snowbird money coming in or TV would be a shell of what it currently is.

[renrod]

This response is for Golf2140 - are you nuts. Do you have any idea how much money the renters bring to TV? Ask some of your fellow Villagers who rent their units what they would do without the income. You might also ask the restaurants, retail stores, bars and golf courses what they would do without the surge. Fewer renters driving carts, you should thank whoever you pray to that you have the snowbird money coming in or TV would be a shell of what it currently is.

His view is typical of a “narrow, me first and only attitude”. Big picture. it takes everything and everybody here to make this place work.:bigbow:
Just noticed your history GO CARDINALS

[tkret]

Umbrella policies are "excess" policies. They generally apply after the underlying policy insuring the involved vehicle is used up by offers or payments. ......

Having an umbrella policy doesn't mean it automatically applies if you have a claim that's not covered by your underlying golf cart policy. So don't assume you'll have coverage under the umbrella policy .
bimmertl,
Well said! Yes, if your primary coverage is denied for "renting" out your golf car as part of the rental on your property, the umbrella WILL NOT kick in.

[GatorFan]

Call your Allstate agent regarding Allstate's decision on rental golf carts.

[daca55]

I know the issue of insurance companies not wanting to insure golf carts that renters are going to use has been discussed over and over again but if someone knows a way to get around this insurance issue I would like to know what it is. I have talked to Allstate, The Villages Sumter Marion and AAA insurance companies and the message is the same i.e they will not insure carts that are in a rental unit. From what I have found about the laws in FL an owner is liable no matter what a renter signs. Looks like I will have to rent my place without the golf cart. Does anyone know where one can store a golf cart preferably inside?:shrug:

[Harleyman]

I am a retired insurance broker from Canada. Assuming that the basic rules of insurance are the same here as they are there my take is as follows. A golf car is a motor vehicle, therefore the rules that apply to your car also apply to your golf car. Anyone who is driving it with your permission would be covered to drive it. However, if you rent the cart it is a what is called a material change in risk and I can assure you that if something happens the insurance company would deny the claim. I have talked to several people who tell me that they are covered because they did not tell the insurance company and therefore would just plead ignorance if something happened. Huge mistake. Also, waivers will only work if everything possible goes in your favor. I can assure you that even with a waiver and something goes wrong, as in a claim, the owner will be added to the suit and perhaps down the road you might be dropped off. In the meantime you will have to defend yourself in the claim, with a lawyer, at tremendous cost. I would never ever trust the validity of a waiver.

The bottom line, in opinion, with 40 years in the business, do not rent your golf car without guaranteed coverage and a personal umbrella. The limits given in Fla are so low that you need the extra coverage in the result of a lawsuit.

Before we bought our place we rented from three well known cart rentors and none of them had insurance.

All of us in this beautiful place have worked hard all of our lives to get here, don't rent your golf car without coverage or with a waiver and possibly lose everything you have because of it. It can happen.