Cain's 999 Plan must have some support!

[Guest]

New poll now puts Cain over Romney.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44881446/ns/today-today_news/t/nbcwsj-poll-cain-now-leads-gop-pack/

Lets's see, a 999 plan everbody but VK can understand, and a 59 page Romney plan.

Herman Cain will have my Florida Primary Vote.

Don't underestimate this candidate.

[Guest]

He's just the flavor of the day, as they say. Palin,Trump, Bachmann, Perry, Cain. All soared, then floored.
When all is said and done it will be Romney. :boom:

[Guest]

He's just the flavor of the day, as they say. Palin,Trump, Bachmann, Perry, Cain. All soared, then floored.
When all is said and done it will be Romney. :boom:

You could be right and a lot of the people who are aligned with the "Establishment Republicans" agree with you. At this point in 2007 the leading Republican candidates in the polls were Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson.

It may be though that the established Republicans are losing their hold on the normal Republican voter. The "winds of change" are in the air and people have had enough, and are looking for new answers and a new strategy. Herman Cain is motivating a lot of people to strive for a better way and a new direction, as opposed to the same old tired "compromisers" who get nothing substantial done.

It all hinges on New Hampshire. Can Herman Cain make a earth shattering impact there? I think that's what he needs to do, and that will tell the tale.

Romney has the advantage in New Hampshire and must win it. If he does he could be unstoppable. If he doesn't........................stay tuned.

[Guest]

You could be right and a lot of the people who are aligned with the "Establishment Republicans" agree with you. At this point in 2007 the leading Republican candidates in the polls were Rudy Giuliani and Fred Thompson.
.......Herman Cain is motivating a lot of people to strive for a better way and a new direction, as opposed to the same old tired "compromisers" who get nothing substantial done.

.....stay tuned.

Your statement highlighted above in red is the definition of "Leadership"! We are electing a national LEADER, not a "technician" trained to diagnose or fix ONE thing or system.

A LEADER motivates people to think and act for themselves.

A LEADER inspires people to get up when they fall or when their nation is falling.

A LEADER encourages the people to do what is right, instead of what is easiest or politically expedient.

A LEADER exemplifies honesty, integrity, and trustworthiness.

A LEADER guides people toward a vision they can't necessarily see for themselves....like a brighter future.

A LEADER teaches people to look beyond themselves and "what's in it for ME".

Herman Cain is a LEADER!

[Guest]

Frankly, I don't feel New Hampshire will mean a thing. There is not that many electoral votes.

Florida will tell the story of where the strength will go. As of now, Herman Cain is leading in Florida.

I guess Christie just didn't make that much of an impact on Romney.

Herman Cain seems more like a Reagan style candidate. He is quick with his wit, and quick with a smile. Hiss 9 9 9 plan will gain steam. It's all anybody in politics is talking about right now. Either in discussions with Cain, or asking others what they "make' of Cain's 999 plan.

[Guest]

........Herman Cain seems more like a Reagan style candidate. He is quick with his wit, and quick with a smile. His 9 9 9 plan will gain steam. It's all anybody in politics is talking about right now. Either in discussions with Cain, or asking others what they "make' of Cain's 999 plan.

And it has people on all sides doing their homework to learn what that 999 plan is.....and they see that it is understandable by anyone who can "do the arithmetic", unlike Dodd-Frank which even VK can't make understandable to us, and unlike the Obamacare 2200-page pile of sausage with who-knows-what was thrown into the grinder and is hidden in all the legalese.

"We the People" are the opening words of the Constitution, and Cain is successfully motivating us to do our homework and not just vote blindfolded, straight down a column with the heading of "D" or "R".

[Guest]

I do like a nation sales tax.We need to capture some tax money from the people that work for cash.Their is a huge amount of unreported income that we would recover some tax from.Other then doing nothing about it and the rest of us paying for them.Why should someone working cleaning houses or any service work that are being paid in cash get away with paying nothing.Just think of all the tips you have given people most of that is never taxed,I have known bartenders that made 200 a day in tips and most of it unreported.A sales tax is the only way we will get something from this unreported income.

[Guest]

9-9-9 is really tough on low to middle class people.
I just read 38% of Americans pay little or no tax with our cuttent tax code.
Now they will have 9% rate plus a 9% national sales tax rate? In addition to state sales tax? OMG.

It's very simple but in reality will bring in less revenue than the current tax structure and I would bet 90% of those reading will be paying a lot more taxes.

You can't make this stuff up!

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/13/830***4-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan-is-simple-youll-simply-pay-more

[Guest]

9-9-9 is really tough on low to middle class people.
I just read 38% of Americans pay little or no tax with our cuttent tax code.
Now they will have 9% rate plus a 9% national sales tax rate? In addition to state sales tax? OMG.

It's very simple but in reality will bring in less revenue than the current tax structure and I would bet 90% of those reading will be paying a lot more taxes.

You can't make this stuff up!

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/10/13/830***4-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan-is-simple-youll-simply-pay-more

The impact on the poorest Americans will have to be evaluated. I heartily disagree about it bringing in less revenue. It will capture the "cash earners", legal and illegal (some of these are the people you're worried about) and draw money from them. The new lower business tax and it's certainty will cause business growth to explode, creating more jobs and more wage earners and more tax contributors.

You will be able to lower your tax bill if you need to by not consuming at that time. It'll be in your hands when you need that to be the case. The money will be in your pocket to control. Just give that some thought.

[Guest]

aljetmet I happen to agree with you and this is not the first time I have heard this concern. A CPA wrote an article in Wall Street Journal not long ago making that exact point. The other concern I have with the 9-9-9- plan is that it will inevitable become the 27-27-27- plan because politicians are obsessive compulsive amount our money. The positive thing about this is that at least Cain is giving us a starting point.

As to the Republican candidates. There are three fractions in the Republican Party. Establsiment Republicans that richielion mentioned and consists of party leaders, large donors corporate interests. they want to retain control.
The second group are evangeicals and pro-life christians.

The third segment ar tea party members. What we are witnessing now is an internal battle between these three segments as to which candidate is electable vis a vis best suited to meet their agenda.

In my mind Romney can never be my candidate because he won't state that he would repeal ObamaCare only impose certain waivers which to me means nothing. romney is a RINO

ObamaCare is a major threat to our free enterprise system and the only candidate with an actual plan is Michelle Bachmann. She also has a good understand of our tax system. The liberal media is doing a number on her and I must admit she hasn't helped herself.

Newt is the smartest of them all. a great idea man but he keeps shooting himself in the head.

Huntsman is Romney on steroids and also a RINO

Herman Cain is electable but I need to hear more about his foreign policy strategy and views on social issues. He would get a lot of the black and hispanic vote. I believe a Cain/Rubio combination could be a crusher

Rick Perry is a true Republican but so far has not performed well

[Guest]

I think you hit the bullseye with this one: "I believe a Cain/Rubio combination could be a crusher."

With all the legitimate concerns about the 9-9-9 plan, I think people are forgetting that any proposal like this by a candidate always ends up being a starting point in Congress, not a law imposed by Executive Order on Day 2 of the new president in the oval office.

I think also that people forget about MOTIVES and honesty of the candidate. I think Cain is a godly man whose motives are pure, and all in favor of keeping the America we love intact......ONE nation, under God.

[Guest]

Mr Cain was on Squawk Box a couple of mornings ago. When they asked him about foreign affairs, he really didn't have an answer. He has zero, nada experiece. He's a business man. I think his real agenda is to sell his book....

Richie
I do love the idea of the lower corparate tax rate. I need the earnings of my investments to pay for 40% of my retirement. I don't want to spend less to reduce my tax burden. I don't agree with a national sales tax. People have to eat, clothes themselves etc. It will be a burden on lower earning Americans and that includes retirees.

Another view that states the revenues don't add up.


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/13/343181/cain-999-plan-analysis/

[Guest]

Mr Cain was on Squawk Box a couple of mornings ago. When they asked him about foreign affairs, he really didn't have an answer. He has zero, nada experiece. He's a business man. I think his real agenda is to sell his book....

Richie
I do love the idea of the lower corparate tax rate. I need the earnings of my investments to pay for 40% of my retirement. I don't want to spend less to reduce my tax burden. I don't agree with a national sales tax. People have to eat, clothes themselves etc. It will be a burden on lower earning Americans and that includes retirees.

Another view that states the revenues don't add up.


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/13/343181/cain-999-plan-analysis/

And how does this compare to a community organizer who has no experience with anything?

[Guest]

There is a lot to be said about some form of a Flat Tax, and scrapping totally the current tax code, and Steve Forbes said it well, again, on 9/20/11....

"Publisher and former presidential candidate Steve Forbes says a flat tax is still the best way to balance the budget and get the economy moving again.

"I think about 26 countries have the flat tax now, and it’s worked wherever it’s been tried," Forbes tells The Fiscal Times.

"You have a low rate, generous deductions for adults and for children, and you can literally do your tax return on a single sheet of paper.”

The $200,000-to-$250,000 a year incomes President Barack Obama considers “rich” occur during a couple’s peak earning years, says Forbes, making increasing taxes on salaries unfair.

“Also, because of our tax code, a lot of businesses are taxed at personal rates, so it will hurt businesses that employ 20-50 people,” he says. “It’s a capital destroyer.”

“Buffett only pays 17 percent of his income in taxes. When he talks, he mixes taxes on dividends and capital gains with taxes on salaried income.”

In this country, Forbes explains, salaried income is taxed at the federal level at the high rate of 35 percent, and when state income taxes are added that figure can rise to 45 percent.

“Raising taxes on dividends, which Buffett implies we should do, destroys capital,” Forbes says. “And raising the tax on capital gains, where there is no certainty, as the market’s always reminding us, reduces risk-taking, which hurts enterprises for the future.”

Forbes says Congress “should repeal Obamacare and start over for a more patient-oriented health care system,” and “repeal Dodd-Frank because it does far more harm than good."

Pensions and Investments reports that a proposal from the Brookings Institution to replace the current 401(k) tax deduction with a flat tax credit has opened the door for further congressional brainstorming on ways to boost retirement savings, despite a lukewarm response from senators and dim prospects for legislative change.
© Moneynews. All rights reserved.
http://www.moneynews.com/StreetTalk/Forbes-Flat-Tax-Economic/2011/09/20/id/411607

More specifics on his Flat Tax proposal were stated by Forbes in 1995:

"America needs to take a new road, one toward an expansion future that is bigger and better than our past. That's why I'm proposing today, and will be talking about throughout my campaign, a liberation movement to take power away from Washington and put it in the hands of the people. A "Boston Tea Party," if you will, that puts an end to the taxing and spending party in Washington, DC. I mean to free the mighty American economy from political repression.

The first element is dramatic pro-growth tax cuts.

I'm not talking "revenue neutral" fiddling with the tax code, the usual game in Washington that pretends to cut some taxes while raising others. And I'm not talking about fiddling around the "margins" cutting taxes that only help the well-to-do.

I am talking about across-the-board tax cuts that are deep and wide and permanent, that reach down to all Americans and get the suffocating weight of the IRS off their backs.

Start by scrapping the tax code. Don't fiddle with it. Junk it. Throw it out. Bury it. Replace it with a pro-growth, pro-family tax cut that lowers tax rates to 17% across the board and expands exemptions for individuals and children so that a family of four would pay no taxes on the first $36,000 of income.

Not one cent to the IRS on the first $36,000. Anything over that would be taxed at a flat, fair 17%.

The flat tax would be simple. You could fill it out on a postcard. It would be honest. It would eliminate the principal source of political corruption in Washington. It would be fair. Millions of people would be off the federal income tax rolls.

There would be no tax on Social Security. No tax on pensions. No tax on personal savings. It would zero out capital gains taxes. It would set off a boom by letting people keep more of what they earn and by lowering barriers to risk taking."

[Guest]

Mr Cain was on Squawk Box a couple of mornings ago. When they asked him about foreign affairs, he really didn't have an answer. He has zero, nada experiece. He's a business man. I think his real agenda is to sell his book....

Richie
I do love the idea of the lower corparate tax rate. I need the earnings of my investments to pay for 40% of my retirement. I don't want to spend less to reduce my tax burden. I don't agree with a national sales tax. People have to eat, clothes themselves etc. It will be a burden on lower earning Americans and that includes retirees.

Another view that states the revenues don't add up.


http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/13/343181/cain-999-plan-analysis/

So far you've reference MSNBC and ThinkProgress which are leftist arms of the media and you're not even skeptical that their conclusions might be skewed to make a conservative Republican look bad?

All reports you read could have different conclusions based on the data the preparer uses and are contingent on assumptions of how the plan will work in practice.

Of course Herman Cain is optimistic on the effects of his plan on the economy, and his detractors are pessimistic. So, in their individual analysis' the end result numbers are representative of their agenda.

[Guest]

Back to the Headline of this thread. There is one more avowed supporter of the Herman Cain 9-9-9 Tax Plan. That person is Republican Representative and Economic Guru, Paul Ryan. Adds a little more credibility to this plan in my opinion.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/13/paul-ryan-loves-herman-cains-9-9-9-tax-plan/

[Guest]

I think you hit the bullseye with this one: "I believe a Cain/Rubio combination could be a crusher."

With all the legitimate concerns about the 9-9-9 plan, I think people are forgetting that any proposal like this by a candidate always ends up being a starting point in Congress, not a law imposed by Executive Order on Day 2 of the new president in the oval office.

I think also that people forget about MOTIVES and honesty of the candidate. I think Cain is a godly man whose motives are pure, and all in favor of keeping the America we love intact......ONE nation, under God.

Cain is a godly man whose motives are pure..........that's where I am at you also vould have used the adjective "sincere" when describing Cain

[Guest]

Just thinking ahead to a flat 9% income tax. Not that I'd mind, but what would become of the IRS? How about H&R Block and other tax services? How many jobs would be lost? What about donations to charities you now can't get a deduction from?
I'm for a flat income tax but don't know about the 9%. Cains 9-9-9 plan makes sense, but those numbers seem too convenient. Why not 8.5--9.2--6.6% They really have to research these numbers better. I don't mind paying the same as now, but not a lot more.

[Guest]

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan is just pie in the sky. It sounds good, it looks good, but it ain't gonna happen.

Remember that any plan such as this would have to make its way through Congress. Remember that lobbyists are extremely powerful critters in Washington and if enough lobbyists get to their Congressmen, something will or will not happen.

In the 9-9-9 plan, who would be hurt by it? The IRS, of course, and they have massive lobbying power. Also, the tax attorneys and tax accountants would be hurt. Once again, very powerful lobby groups.

I would also guess another group who might be hurt would be large item retailers such as the automobile industry. We know their lobby power.

Once again, to RichieLion's sorrow, I predict Herman Cain will not be your Republican nominee.

[Guest]

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan is just pie in the sky. It sounds good, it looks good, but it ain't gonna happen.

Remember that any plan such as this would have to make its way through Congress. Remember that lobbyists are extremely powerful critters in Washington and if enough lobbyists get to their Congressmen, something will or will not happen.

In the 9-9-9 plan, who would be hurt by it? The IRS, of course, and they have massive lobbying power. Also, the tax attorneys and tax accountants would be hurt. Once again, very powerful lobby groups.

I would also guess another group who might be hurt would be large item retailers such as the automobile industry. We know their lobby power.

Once again, to RichieLion's sorrow, I predict Herman Cain will not be your Republican nominee.

Yea, but it would be nice to have someone in the White House who can think outside the box. Heck, it would be nice to have someone in the White House who can think.

[Guest]

Yes, it IS good to have someone in the White House who can think - especially after 8 long unthinking years of Junior Bush.

[Guest]

...Newt is the smartest of them all. a great idea man but he keeps shooting himself in the head....A lot of people forget history. I try not to. In this instance, I'm sure Newt Gingrich would like to avoid any discussion of his role in de-regulating the banks, a move which ultimately lead to the financial crisis of 2007-8.

In 1999, Gingrich was the Speaker of the House in the 105th Congress and along with Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott and Senator Phil Gramm of Texas, jammed thru legislation that repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932. Glass-Steagall was the law that separated commercial banks from investment banks, prohibiting commercial banks from becoming involved in trading and the use of exotic financial products using the capital of the banks to leverage into those new and highly risky businesses and products.

Both houses of Congress were heavily lobbied by the banks, who wanted the prohibitions on them becoming involved in those highly profitable but risky businesses lifted. The commercial bankers desperately wanted a piece of the huge bonuses being earned by the Wall Street investment bankers.

The repeal of the laws and regulations that for 70 years had kept the U.S. banking system strong and safe and capable of providing the credit needed for a strong economy was the "beginning of the end" and lead to the almost complete failure of our banking system less than ten years later.

I'm sure Gingrich wouldn't want to be questioned on his role in getting the repeal of Glass-Steagall jammed thru the House. That's a part of his personal history that I'm sure he'd like to forget...and he'd certainly like us to forget!

[Guest]

Yea, but it would be nice to have someone in the White House who can think outside the box. Heck, it would be nice to have someone in the White House who can think.

Good one VG :boom:

[Guest]

Ran into an old friend today. He's a dyed in the wool Dem who never missed an opportunity to bash Bush to me. Found out some interesting information from him tho. He said that he is tired of government hand outs to lazy people "at the bottom" and he is tired of big corporations not paying tax. He then said that he bet I'm on Romney's band wagon. I told him I think Romney is not much better than who we have in WH now, so he asked who i am backing. I told him Cain and told him bout 999. As we were parting, he asked me what Cain's name was again, I said Herman Cain and he wanted to check him out because he likes what he's heard and maybe we have more in common than we thought!!!!!! :boom:

OOOPS! Had to edit this post because I failed to mention that the guy mentioned works for GE! :1rotfl:

[Guest]

Herman Cain's 9-9-9 tax plan is just pie in the sky. It sounds good, it looks good, but it ain't gonna happen.

Remember that any plan such as this would have to make its way through Congress. Remember that lobbyists are extremely powerful critters in Washington and if enough lobbyists get to their Congressmen, something will or will not happen.

In the 9-9-9 plan, who would be hurt by it? The IRS, of course, and they have massive lobbying power. Also, the tax attorneys and tax accountants would be hurt. Once again, very powerful lobby groups.

I would also guess another group who might be hurt would be large item retailers such as the automobile industry. We know their lobby power.

Once again, to RichieLion's sorrow, I predict Herman Cain will not be your Republican nominee.

There's no sorrow if Cain doesn't get the nomination. There's other's I can support, and will support whoever prevails.

Just because I like to talk about and debate someone who is not a cookie cutter politician doesn't mean I'm a groupie.

You keep forgetting when you trash the Fed. Sales Tax provision of the plan that people will have more money in their pockets in the first place. Most middle class American's will go from around 30% to 9% tax if the plan passed.

I'm not 100% in support of this plan, but it's a radical idea that I think needs discussion. On the whole, it's easily understandable (except to the haters who trash any and every idea that originates from a Republican, and who continue to misunderstand it's simple concept), and that's what's resonating with people, including me.

[Guest]

How is Cain's 9% Federal Sales Tax different than a VAT that European countries have - and that most politicians say they do not want?

[Guest]

Anything that most politicians don't want can't be all that bad

[Guest]

Back to the Headline of this thread. There is one more avowed supporter of the Herman Cain 9-9-9 Tax Plan. That person is Republican Representative and Economic Guru, Paul Ryan. Adds a little more credibility to this plan in my opinion....Geez, Richie, Paul Ryan didn't say he was an avowed supporter of the 9-9-9 plan. What he said (quoted from the article you linked) was, "...Cain’s plan is a good starting point for debate, and shows the GOP presidential campaign season has entered into a more advanced stage where ideas — not just personalities — have come to the forefront...."

Ryan went on to say that Cain's plan was credible and that he (Ryan) is more of a flat tax kind of guy. Guess what, I'd be in favor of a flat tax too. But it would have to be contained in a tax regime that makes more sense that 9-9-9.

But getting back to your assertion that Ryan is an "avowed supporter" and that such support lends credibility to the plan. It seems to me that what Ryan said was that Cain's plan has been efective in moving the campaign debate away from personalities and towards ideas and that he thought that was a good thing. Seems to me that's a far cry from an endorsement of the plan itself.

[Guest]

In 2004 (the most recent year that I could find these statistics for), about 130 million federal tax returns were filed. Of that number, 43 million paid no tax at all. In fact, most of them got all their tax witholdings refunded, as well as additional refunds from programs like the Earned Income Tax Credit. The statistics show that the income reported by those 41 million filers was $30,122 or less.

Can someone explain how enacting a new income tax, which would require 43 million Americans who currently earn $30,000 or less and who pay no federal income tax, to pay a new income tax of 9% is a good thing? Is it a good thing for the low income people to have their meager incomes cut by 9%? Is a good thing for the economy to have 43 million Americans with 9% less in their pockets to spend?

C'mon people...THINK about this goofy 9-9-9 plan. This seems to be another one of those plans that sounds great in a campaign speech, but makes no sense whatsoever when you begin to analyze it. In fact, try to find someone who has analyzed it...anyone! You can't find any analysis of the plan because Herman Cain has provided so little detail in how the plan would work that it can't be analyzed!

[Guest]

Geez, Richie, Paul Ryan didn't say he was an avowed supporter of the 9-9-9 plan. What he said (quoted from the article you linked) was, "...Cain’s plan is a good starting point for debate, and shows the GOP presidential campaign season has entered into a more advanced stage where ideas — not just personalities — have come to the forefront...."

Ryan went on to say that Cain's plan was credible and that he (Ryan) is more of a flat tax kind of guy. Guess what, I'd be in favor of a flat tax too. But it would have to be contained in a tax regime that makes more sense that 9-9-9.

But getting back to your assertion that Ryan is an "avowed supporter" and that such support lends credibility to the plan. It seems to me that what Ryan said was that Cain's plan has been efective in moving the campaign debate away from personalities and towards ideas and that he thought that was a good thing. Seems to me that's a far cry from an endorsement of the plan itself.

First line from the article in question: House Budget Committee chairman Paul Ryan says he “loves” presidential candidate Herman Cain’s signature “9-9-9″ tax plan.

The word "loves" is in quotes as having been said by Ryan himself.

definition: "loves" - to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in.

(You kill me.)

[Guest]

Well it seems there continues to be all kinds of opinions but none of the detractors seem to have actually read the plan or have the ability to understand it or comment on it without going into some kind of unrelated rant.

Here, let me actually serve it up for those who fail to understand.
Please read it before going off on another tangent of BS.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

[Guest]

A few things caught my eye while reading Cain's idea.

He says his plan would "end the IRS as we know it". What does that mean - as we know it? It will be something else that we do not know what it will be?

Also, "•Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors

•Ends all payroll taxes

Income tax deductions such as interest on home mortgage will no longer be allowed. This is one big deduction that all of us used or still use and I would not like to see that go away; would you?

Ends all payroll taxes - this means Social Security tax will not be taken out of your paycheck - thus meaning Herman Cain wants to abolish Social Security? If he does not mean that, how is Social Security going to be collected if it is not out of your paycheck?

These are a couple of things seemingly glossed over that may make a lot of difference in who you want to vote for.

[Guest]

A lot of people forget history. I try not to. In this instance, I'm sure Newt Gingrich would like to avoid any discussion of his role in de-regulating the banks, a move which ultimately lead to the financial crisis of 2007-8.

In 1999, Gingrich was the Speaker of the House in the 105th Congress and along with Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott and Senator Phil Gramm of Texas, jammed thru legislation that repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932. Glass-Steagall was the law that separated commercial banks from investment banks, prohibiting commercial banks from becoming involved in trading and the use of exotic financial products using the capital of the banks to leverage into those new and highly risky businesses and products.

Both houses of Congress were heavily lobbied by the banks, who wanted the prohibitions on them becoming involved in those highly profitable but risky busVKVinesses lifted. The commercial bankers desperately wanted a piece of the huge bonuses being earned by the Wall Street investment bankers.

The repeal of the laws and regulations that for 70 years had kept the U.S. banking system strong and safe and capable of providing the credit needed for a strong economy was the "beginning of the end" and lead to the almost complete failure of our banking system less than ten years later.

I'm sure Gingrich wouldn't want to be questioned on his role in getting the repeal of Glass-Steagall jammed thru the House. That's a part of his personal history that I'm sure he'd like to forget...and he'd certainly like us to forget!

VK thanks I did forget it was Newt et a, repeal of Glass-Steagall

Let me be frank: I am trying as hard as I can to like anyone of the Republican candidates, and while anyone is far superior to Obama, I wish the candidates list could be extended.

What we are getting from most of them is their narrative when what we want is a more detailed explanation of what they will do

[Guest]

I honestly don't think the elimination of payroll tax will mean the abolishment of SS. That's my guess.

In any event here are my thoughts and they are not political I'm just interpreting what I've read.

My family would actually come out ahead except for me(when I retire).

Dividends and capital gains are eliminated. My brother earns all his money in capital gains ( no he does not trade stock). He supports anyone who wants to keep cap gains as low as possible. He is now a Cain supporter!

My son-in-law gets paid as a consultant so he's stuck paying SS for himself and the employer. Normaly that's 12.4% taken write off the top. So by paying only 9% he's gonna be ahead.

For those folks eaning a living they would normally save 6.2% ( 4.2% in 2010)
So normal folk get a break as well.

Now how about retirees:

They will pay 9% on their SS. I presume they will also pay 9% on any pension they receive. They will also pay 9% on their 401K withdrawls.

So retirees, unless I'm wrong and I hope I am, we're screwed.
:boom:

[Guest]

A few things caught my eye while reading Cain's idea.

He says his plan would "end the IRS as we know it". What does that mean - as we know it? It will be something else that we do not know what it will be?

Also, "•Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors

•Ends all payroll taxes

Income tax deductions such as interest on home mortgage will no longer be allowed. This is one big deduction that all of us used or still use and I would not like to see that go away; would you?

Ends all payroll taxes - this means Social Security tax will not be taken out of your paycheck - thus meaning Herman Cain wants to abolish Social Security? If he does not mean that, how is Social Security going to be collected if it is not out of your paycheck?

These are a couple of things seemingly glossed over that may make a lot of difference in who you want to vote for.


Already figured out the difference for our household. Would drop our taxes owed in half!!! That is huge! and it is without the deductions on Schedule A! We can take that dough and invest it...Mr. Katz is chomping at the bit for that opportunity. Then won't have to depend on SS, and hopefully younger generations follow suit. What is left of SS should be put in lock box, for real this time, to be invested and grow so that those already dependent on SS will be able to continue to collect.

[Guest]

The guy with the Muslim name. I am a God fearin', gun totin' guy (got Osama for Jesus sake), and want to create a national sales tax of 9 percent. Yeah, it'll cost you more...for example my plan defunds Social Security and Medicare..plus it double taxes you when you spend the money you saved (and previously paid taxes on) and you now have to pay a national sales tax to use it...but, I love my God and my Black Walnut ice cream...so you gotta support me.

Truely...You'd string this guy up. Why, well, given your value set, I understand.

Why you don't wanna string up the real guy who created the real 999 is beyond me.

Strange Fruit.

[Guest]

The guy with the Muslim name. I am a God fearin', gun totin' guy (got Osama for Jesus sake), and want to create a national sales tax of 9 percent. Yeah, it'll cost you more...for example my plan defunds Social Security and Medicare..plus it double taxes you when you spend the money you saved (and previously paid taxes on) and you now have to pay a national sales tax to use it...but, I love my God and my Black Walnut ice cream...so you gotta support me.

Truely...You'd string this guy up. Why, well, given your value set, I understand.

Why you don't wanna string up the real guy who created the real 999 is beyond me.

Strange Fruit.
Haven't you heard? Obama is old news. We is picking the new President.

[Guest]

Michelle Bachman was asked what she thought of 9-9-9 and she said "26?"

[Guest]

The guy with the Muslim name. I am a God fearin', gun totin' guy (got Osama for Jesus sake), and want to create a national sales tax of 9 percent. Yeah, it'll cost you more...for example my plan defunds Social Security and Medicare..plus it double taxes you when you spend the money you saved (and previously paid taxes on) and you now have to pay a national sales tax to use it...but, I love my God and my Black Walnut ice cream...so you gotta support me.

Truely...You'd string this guy up. Why, well, given your value set, I understand.

Why you don't wanna string up the real guy who created the real 999 is beyond me.

Strange Fruit.

Welcome back, I guess. But this post is a little dark and bizarre and wrong on the facts. Please read the plan. Nothing you've said is anywhere close to the truth of Herman Cain's plan.

Are you talking about stringing up African-American Republican candidate Herman Cain?

[Guest]

Lamestream media has ignored or demonized the Tea Party Movement from the beginning and giving these Wall Street protesters prime time. Why?

If there was any question how far left the Lamestream media leans, this should take away all doubts. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

[Guest]

Lamestream media has ignored or demonized the Tea Party Movement from the beginning and giving these Wall Street protesters prime time. Why?

If there was any question how far left the Lamestream media leans, this should take away all doubts. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic.

Trite....tiresome. :boom:

[Guest]

Trite....tiresome. :boom:

Thank you for adding clarity to this subject. I really look forward to your in depth analysis.

[Guest]

Welcome back, I guess. But this post is a little dark and bizarre and wrong on the facts. Please read the plan. Nothing you've said is anywhere close to the truth of Herman Cain's plan.

Are you talking about stringing up African-American Republican candidate Herman Cain?


RL:

Maybe you aren't interested in more strange fruit..but I bet some of your fellow believers are totally OK with the idea

[Guest]

RL:

Maybe you aren't interested in more strange fruit..but I bet some of your fellow believers are totally OK with the idea

I think that people who talk in riddles really think they are KOOL.

[Guest]

RL:

Maybe you aren't interested in more strange fruit..but I bet some of your fellow believers are totally OK with the idea

For that matter...we need to deal with these cult non-Christian religions. Of course this doesn't address the inherent arrogance that we think we look like the creative source and that our belief in that reduces us to New World ****es..but, heck...isn't that just splitting hairs in the face of floods, fires, and other man-made disasters?

BTW - you don't like our Prez...I agree and the reckoning is coming. You better hope we handle it on these shores..because the majority of the rest of the great unwashed on this planet will be less than kind.

Lastly - don't think I believe they are noble...they aren't. They are hungry, ignorant and angry ... and we stupidly arm them and wind them up with images of wealth and with random drone strikes.

Our ability to fight among ourselves in the face of a larger reality is almost thrilling in its suicidal tendency.

[Guest]

For that matter...we need to deal with these cult non-Christian religions. Of course this doesn't address the inherent arrogance that we think we look like the creative source and that our belief in that reduces us to New World ****es..but, heck...isn't that just splitting hairs in the face of floods, fires, and other man-made disasters?

BTW - you don't like our Prez...I agree and the reckoning is coming. You better hope we handle it on these shores..because the majority of the rest of the great unwashed on this planet will be less than kind.

Lastly - don't think I believe they are noble...they aren't. They are hungry, ignorant and angry ... and we stupidly arm them and wind them up with images of wealth and with random drone strikes.

Our ability to fight among ourselves in the face of a larger reality is almost thrilling in its suicidal tendency.

The deleted word was the non-offensive term for the branch of Islam (delete this term too?) in Iran...like there are Jews, Buddhists, Catholics and Protestants...there are Sunnis and Shiites ...these are not offensive terms...

[Guest]

The deleted word was the non-offensive term for the branch of Islam (delete this term too?) in Iran...like there are Jews, Buddhists, Catholics and Protestants...there are Sunnis and Shiites ...these are not offensive terms...

How long does it take to come up with these posts? Just curious. Are you really this deep or are you putting us on. Did you find yourself a really deep blog to read?

[Guest]

How long does it take to come up with these posts? Just curious. Are you really this deep or are you putting us on. Did you find yourself a really deep blog to read?

Putter:

I don't know if I'm that deep. I took a test a few years ago and qualified for the foreign service (I've been told only 3% or so pass). But, reading your past posts, my guess is that I'm not in your league (for better or worse).

Ever consider a correspondence course? I hear typing is very popular.

H

[Guest]

Putter:

I don't know if I'm that deep. I took a test a few years ago and qualified for the foreign service (I've been told only 3% or so pass). But, reading your past posts, my guess is that I'm not in your league (for better or worse).

Ever consider a correspondence course? I hear typing is very popular.

H

Don't flatter yourself, anybody can copy and paste.

[Guest]

Don't flatter yourself, anybody can copy and paste.

Please stay out of the deep end of the pool, stay in the shallow end. There are no lifeguards on duty 24/7.

[Guest]

Putter:

I don't know if I'm that deep. I took a test a few years ago and qualified for the foreign service (I've been told only 3% or so pass). But, reading your past posts, my guess is that I'm not in your league (for better or worse).

Ever consider a correspondence course? I hear typing is very popular.

H

Anyone can do well on a test...and there is also a fine line between genious and insanity. I'm glad to hear that you are not in the league with some of the posters on this forum:ho:

[Guest]

Anyone can do well on a test...and there is also a fine line between genious and insanity. I'm glad to hear that you are not in the league with some of the posters on this forum:ho:

Does spelling count on this test?

[Guest]

Does spelling count on this test?

Used to be meticulous with spelling and grammar on my postings to the point that I almost did what you have done here... Most of my convos with my fam and frens is via txt msg, and it appears to me that no 1 on this forum cares about spelling, punctuation, grammar either...Just trying to adapt to the culture! :ho:

[Guest]

RL:

Maybe you aren't interested in more strange fruit..but I bet some of your fellow believers are totally OK with the idea

Have to agree with VG. This post is meaningless to anyone who is not implanted in your head. That seems as scary thought to me at this moment.

Simple cognitive English is always best if you want to be understood.

[Guest]

RL:

Maybe you aren't interested in more strange fruit..but I bet some of your fellow believers are totally OK with the idea

What does this creepy, sinister stuff have to do with Herman Cain, presidential candidate, and his tax proposal????

[Guest]

What does this creepy, sinister stuff have to do with Herman Cain, presidential candidate, and his tax proposal????

Absolutely correct!

Newt Gingrich and Glass Steagle etc is nothing more than trying to jump a thread about Herman Cain and the 999 plan too.

It seems there are a few who always try to turn any thread into something about themselves.:thumbup:

[Guest]

Please stay out of the deep end of the pool, stay in the shallow end. There are no lifeguards on duty 24/7.

Well, you know all about shallowness, huh?

[Guest]

That last "9" is a 9% federal sales tax added to our state sales tax. The people on www.Politifact.com have done an analysis on just that would mean to people with different incomes. Interesting to see who gets hit the hardest.

[Guest]

That last "9" is a 9% federal sales tax added to our state sales tax. The people on www.Politifact.com have done an analysis on just that would mean to people with different incomes. Interesting to see who gets hit the hardest.

your link leads to a dead end...or the information is no longer available.

[Guest]

your link leads to a dead end...or the information is no longer available.

Your link seems to lead to a left-leaning blog. Unreliable and prejudice.

[Guest]

I would actually like to hear a concise economic discussion about the effect of sales taxes on the very poor by non-partisan economists who are just about the numbers and are promoting no social change agenda. It's almost impossible though, as everyone has an agenda.

People who are "conservative" seem to be all about "fair taxes", but can't agree on the definition of "fair" in a discussion with anyone who is "liberal".

People who are liberal refuse to include the "underground economy" of cash workers, legal and illegal, into the mix of people who are statistically "very poor". Some "very poor" people seem to live pretty well for people who are "very poor" and are thus judged to be exempt from the imposition of taxes.

It goes around and around in my head, but I can't produce a "fair solution" that would satisfy all in my pondering.

[Guest]

It is difficult to have an indepth discussion about a proposal that if seriously considered would have so many re-drafts that by the time pols get done with ot yu wouldn't recognizemit from the original. Again as it stands now reitrees would get beat up with this plan in part becaise it would amount to double taxation.

[Guest]

It is difficult to have an indepth discussion about a proposal that if seriously considered would have so many re-drafts that by the time pols get done with ot yu wouldn't recognizemit from the original. Again as it stands now reitrees would get beat up with this plan in part becaise it would amount to double taxation.

Except for the fact that their federal tax on income would be cut; in some instances by a substantial amount.

the "double taxation" would be self imposed by their consumer activity, but they start out with more available funds to do this.

[Guest]

It is difficult to have an indepth discussion about a proposal that if seriously considered would have so many re-drafts that by the time pols get done with ot yu wouldn't recognizemit from the original. Again as it stands now reitrees would get beat up with this plan in part becaise it would amount to double taxation.

I don't think so, on your last statement (retirees getting beaten up by Cain plan). Last night when interviewed, Cain said clearly that the plan would actually help people living on Social Security and dividend income--would not be taxed on those. So it would be the national sales tax and none on those types of income.

[Guest]

A lot of people forget history. I try not to. In this instance, I'm sure Newt Gingrich would like to avoid any discussion of his role in de-regulating the banks, a move which ultimately lead to the financial crisis of 2007-8.

In 1999, Gingrich was the Speaker of the House in the 105th Congress and along with Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott and Senator Phil Gramm of Texas, jammed thru legislation that repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932. Glass-Steagall was the law that separated commercial banks from investment banks, prohibiting commercial banks from becoming involved in trading and the use of exotic financial products using the capital of the banks to leverage into those new and highly risky businesses and products.

Both houses of Congress were heavily lobbied by the banks, who wanted the prohibitions on them becoming involved in those highly profitable but risky businesses lifted. The commercial bankers desperately wanted a piece of the huge bonuses being earned by the Wall Street investment bankers.

The repeal of the laws and regulations that for 70 years had kept the U.S. banking system strong and safe and capable of providing the credit needed for a strong economy was the "beginning of the end" and lead to the almost complete failure of our banking system less than ten years later.

I'm sure Gingrich wouldn't want to be questioned on his role in getting the repeal of Glass-Steagall jammed thru the House. That's a part of his personal history that I'm sure he'd like to forget...and he'd certainly like us to forget!

Why you credit the repeal of the Glass Stegall act to Newt Gingrich puzzles me. While Newt Gingrich supported its repeal, the primary proponent of repeal was President Clinton. He led the effort to repeal the Glass Stegall on the advice of then Secretary of the Treasury Lawrence Summers and his previous Secretary of the Treasury, Robert Rubin. The vote in congress was bipartisan and overwhelming. 90 to 8 in the United States Senate.

A direct quote representing the administration’s position on the repeal - ”Today Congress voted to update the rules that have governed financial services since the Great Depression and replace them with a system for the 21st century” Treasury Secretary Lawrence H. Summers said. ”This historic legislation will better enable American companies to compete in the new economy.”

President Clinton stated on ABC in 2010 that Lawrence Summers and Robert Rubin had given him ‘bad advice.’ He took responsibility for the action and did not try to blame others.

[Guest]

I don't think so, on your last statement (retirees getting beaten up by Cain plan). Last night when interviewed, Cain said clearly that the plan would actually help people living on Social Security and dividend income--would not be taxed on those. So it would be the national sales tax and none on those types of income.
Just a thought, since it would be consumer driven, most retirees here in The Villagers are past what I call my collection days. I bought most of my toys when I was still working and we sure don't need all the clothing that we did up North.

[Guest]

Yes, Richie, the sales tax increase of 9% on top of local and state sales taxes would be self-controlling. Just eat less food and buy less medicine.

That would take care of a large chunk of the extra tax. Oh, don't forget you cannot deduct from your income tax things like child care, mortgage interest, and tuition.

Yep, a good plan for everyone. (that is sarcasm, if some of the more challenged conservatives did not recognize it.)

[Guest]

Yes, Richie, the sales tax increase of 9% on top of local and state sales taxes would be self-controlling. Just eat less food and buy less medicine.

That would take care of a large chunk of the extra tax. Oh, don't forget you cannot deduct from your income tax things like child care, mortgage interest, and tuition.

Yep, a good plan for everyone. (that is sarcasm, if some of the more challenged conservatives did not recognize it.)

Our President says we should sacrifice more so people will eat less and get more healthy so they will not need as much medicine. See, it all works out. Obama is a genius. (That is sarcasm for the mentally deficient extreme left-wing progressive liberals out there)

[Guest]

Dang it, VillageGolfer, when you use those terms like extreme left-wing progressive liberals, you keep forgetting elitist. I have earned that right (no pun intended) to have the full string of adjectives. Thank you for your future consideration.

[Guest]

Dang it, VillageGolfer, when you use those terms like extreme left-wing progressive liberals, you keep forgetting elitist. I have earned that right (no pun intended) to have the full string of adjectives. Thank you for your future consideration.

There are not any liberal elitists out there, just liberals who think they are elite. (PS. they are not good at thinking)