So let's just expand Obamas great idea.

[Guest]

Reduce and/or forgive student loans.

If this is a good idea then, Let's just have everybody show up for work only on one of five days a week, their choice of day. They get full pay for the work that they are not doing even though they agreed to do it when they took the job.
Then after 20 years of one day work week, they don't have to even go in. Just retire and get full benefit of SS for the rest of their life for that hard work they put in.

Then because this worked so well we will extend it to home loans. Just make at least one payment a year and once you have paid a minimum of 10% it's yours, free and clear. You didn't mean it when you signed the papers about repaying it in full. Those bad bad investors that backed your loan can afford! Hell, the government can pick up the tab.

The best thing is it even works for credit cards. Since you only have to pay a minimum payment now all you need to do is MANDATE that after 10 or so years it is forgiven.

This plan will make it possible for everyone to be bill free and retire in 20 years.

Doesn't that sound great!

Oh I almost forgot..... free health care.

Isn't this country great!

HOPE for CHANGE!

[Guest]

Here's what I find amazing... Anything can be turned to the extreme. If the President does nothing, people complain. If the President does something, people complain. ......people complain, is the common denominator.

I also find it very interesting that folks are more than happy to rebuild Iraq or Afghanistan; assisting Japan with Tsunami relief, etc. But, when comes to helping our fellow Americans, we have all these reasons why our fellow Americans are deadbeats, that they don't want to work... they don't want to pay their bills. Americans are somehow not worthy.

We support the demonstrating masses of countries that want to change their government, but we demonize those who would do the same in our own country (OWS).

We send billions and billions of dollars around the world to help folks, but we don't want to help our own.

Color my very puzzled... :shrug:

[Guest]

Memason,

You hit it out of the park with that posting!

Excellent job.

[Guest]

Here's what I find amazing... Anything can be turned to the extreme. If the President does nothing, people complain. If the President does something, people complain. ......people complain, is the common denominator.

I also find it very interesting that folks are more than happy to rebuild Iraq or Afghanistan; assisting Japan with Tsunami relief, etc. But, when comes to helping our fellow Americans, we have all these reasons why our fellow Americans are deadbeats, that they don't want to work... they don't want to pay their bills. Americans are somehow not worthy.

We support the demonstrating masses of countries that want to change their government, but we demonize those who would do the same in our own country (OWS).

We send billions and billions of dollars around the world to help folks, but we don't want to help our own.

Color my very puzzled... :shrug:

So I guess you want to celebrate those who want to change our government? How, and in what way? You're no longer satisfied with the government as set forth by our founding fathers?

If that's what you mean, you're going to get a lot of opposition, believe me; and you can get as outraged as you want, but the socialist/communist form of government that the OWS is seeking is not going to be accomplished without resistance.

The President could be eliciting less opposition if he was working to increase opportunity instead of to increase redistribution of private resources. Endless handouts only serve to create a permanent underclass. That way of thinking only demoralizes the downtrodden and irritates those who's resources gained from hard work is confiscated. There's a better way, and that way is to open up the floodgates to opportunity by getting out of the way of business with a decreased and a certainty in taxes, and scaling back growth killing regulations. Particularly the regulations that handcuff the energy producers in this country need to be severely diminished.

I would also like to see the billions of dollars you point out that is going around the world in aid to be cut out entirely to countries that don't act in our interests.

[Guest]

The purpose of the Occupy Wall Street is to bring to the forefront the inequality of the CEO's who make millions of dollars and the rest of the country. It is NOT to form a communist type society and take their wealth away and make everyone equal in a financial way.

There do have to be some new conditions on welfare, of course. It is totally wrong to have a few generations of the same familiy on welfare and we all know that. A helping hand is not a handout for good. We have discussed this and we agree on it.

The foreign aid to countries that do not like us is ridiculous. Help out our own first. Reducing the amount of foreign aid would take care of needing any tax increases.

See, problems of the world are easily solved on this forum. Guess it is time for a beer now.

[Guest]

Oh, but foreign aid is only 1/100 of a percent of the whole budget. Then lets cut out WIC, but that is only 1/100 of a percent of the whole budget. If we cut enough of the 1/100th of the budget pretty soon we will have a whole percent, then 2 percent and right on up the scale. Stopping spending has to start someplace and if all our criminal congressmen and ladies keep saying its only x per cent of the whole budget there will never be any savings by cutting spending.

[Guest]

Memason

If the President does nothing, people complain. If the President does something, people complain. ......people complain, is the common denominator.


First of all I do not consider this student LOAN give away something other than a give away, not help that is needed by all of the students. How do you go about deciding which students need help like this, you don't so you do it for everybody and that is not right. That would be the socialist way to take care of this. Why not open up the gates for business to hire them instead of making them all failures by just telling them that there is nothing out there for you so here is some money!

I also find it very interesting that folks are more than happy to rebuild Iraq or Afghanistan; assisting Japan with Tsunami relief, etc. But, when comes to helping our fellow Americans, we have all these reasons why our fellow Americans are deadbeats, that they don't want to work... they don't want to pay their bills. Americans are somehow not worthy.


I said nothing about being worthy, I believe that giving them the money without any strings sends a very bad message to people in our country on how you get ahead.
I also said nothing about Iraq or Afghanistan but I will now. I agree with you on this one. We should not be there and we should not be rebuilding their countries.
And as far as being dead beats, many of the OWS are dead beats and anybody that thinks they are all just poor little out of work middle class people who got taken by the rich is blind or just fooling themselves.

We send billions and billions of dollars around the world to help folks, but we don't want to help our own.
We as a nation give more from our hearts and pockets to more people everywhere in the world than anyone else including in our own country. We don't need the government taking it and giving it to who ever they need votes from in 2012. That goes for both parties.

I think you assume your righteousness stands apart from others namely mine. I believe in helping. I don't see how forgiving every ones debts because you have no GOOD ideas for the economy helps. That is part of what got us into this mess.

[Guest]

Here's what I find amazing... Anything can be turned to the extreme. If the President does nothing, people complain. If the President does something, people complain. ......people complain, is the common denominator.

I also find it very interesting that folks are more than happy to rebuild Iraq or Afghanistan; assisting Japan with Tsunami relief, etc. But, when comes to helping our fellow Americans, we have all these reasons why our fellow Americans are deadbeats, that they don't want to work... they don't want to pay their bills. Americans are somehow not worthy.

We support the demonstrating masses of countries that want to change their government, but we demonize those who would do the same in our own country (OWS).

We send billions and billions of dollars around the world to help folks, but we don't want to help our own.

Color my very puzzled... :shrug:

I think the "common denominator" in your example above is that the "people complaining" realistically ask, "Who's going to repay the loan?", while the beneficent, magnanimous democrat "givers" reply, "Oh geez.....Who cares about THAT!"

The problem with government and politicians is that whenever they "give" a break to one group, they "take" from another to compensate for the "gift" they gave, and in this case they will take from the very taxpaying parents who did not qualify for government grants and could not afford to send their kids to college in the first place....the reason they took out the loans.

It gets really old hearing democrats label us as cruel and selfish and unwilling to help others just because we expect government to spend money it actually HAS or will have!

[Guest]

Oh, but foreign aid is only 1/100 of a percent of the whole budget. Then lets cut out WIC, but that is only 1/100 of a percent of the whole budget. If we cut enough of the 1/100th of the budget pretty soon we will have a whole percent, then 2 percent and right on up the scale. Stopping spending has to start someplace and if all our criminal congressmen and ladies keep saying its only x per cent of the whole budget there will never be any savings by cutting spending.

Instead of starting with the 0.01%, why don't we start with the elephants? Cutting, say, 10% of defense would go a lot further than eliminating (not just cutting) innumerable programs.

[Guest]

... It gets really old hearing democrats label us as cruel and selfish and unwilling to help others just because we expect government to spend money it actually HAS or will have!

I was not attempting to label anyone with my post. Folks seem to think of me as liberal; you might be surprised. That isn't important though. Label me if you must.

I'm just concerned for what is going on in our country...not placing blame, since it is certainly not one persons doings. I'm not an OWS sympathizer, but I do respect their right to protest.

Believe me, I have no hidden agenda here. Just expressing an opinion.

[Guest]

I respect your opinions and have lots of my own.

I think it is fun to verbally spare on here because who else are we going to talk to.

I have found out by reading on here that I have much to learn. Many well read people on here even if you do or don't agree with them.

[Guest]

Instead of starting with the 0.01%, why don't we start with the elephants? Cutting, say, 10% of defense would go a lot further than eliminating (not just cutting) innumerable programs.

Right on, let's cut the defense budget and leave the handouts alone. Then you might want to start learning a foreign language, say, Chinees perhaps. Nay, let's cut the handouts out first, then start trimming the defense. Might just be a better way to start.

[Guest]

So I guess you want to celebrate those who want to change our government? How, and in what way? You're no longer satisfied with the government as set forth by our founding fathers?

If that's what you mean, you're going to get a lot of opposition, believe me; and you can get as outraged as you want, but the socialist/communist form of government that the OWS is seeking is not going to be accomplished without resistance.

The President could be eliciting less opposition if he was working to increase opportunity instead of to increase redistribution of private resources. Endless handouts only serve to create a permanent underclass. That way of thinking only demoralizes the downtrodden and irritates those who's resources gained from hard work is confiscated. There's a better way, and that way is to open up the floodgates to opportunity by getting out of the way of business with a decreased and a certainty in taxes, and scaling back growth killing regulations. Particularly the regulations that handcuff the energy producers in this country need to be severely diminished.

I would also like to see the billions of dollars you point out that is going around the world in aid to be cut out entirely to countries that don't act in our interests.

What is frustrating about this position and the regular socialist/communist labeling, is that you ignore the repeated requests to answer whether ANY revenue producing legislation is justifiable. We are not talking about changing the government, We are not talking about "eating the rich" and giving it all away as handouts to 'deadbeats'. What is being asked is whether the Republican position of no new revenue is realistic.

How about if it is characterized this way: Congress approves a gradual return to the tax structure of fifty years ago, baby steps if you want, and the money is used for rebuilding infrastructure. Not a single handout. Instead some additional people get a chance at landing a job. How about creating jobs with existing unemployment funds which are no longer doled out after a period of time, but can be earned by those who accept the jobs. And how about raising the capital gains tax a little. We are at half of what Reagan thought it should be. Who's earning all those capital gains? The 1% or the 99? Revise corporate taxation to provide loopholes for companies who return manufacturing to the US, hire more workers, and deposit their profits in US banks.

None of this stuff is socialistic or unconstitutional. We were smart enough a century ago to realize the 'robber barons' had found ways to accumulate most of the country's wealth. Federal income tax and other measures, and finally Social Security along other depression ending steps swung the pendulum back to what I would call a better balance.
Would you also condemn all those actions?

The fact is, it has happened all over again. And I don't think the "occupiers" will stop reminding us that it has.

[Guest]

I respect your opinions and have lots of my own.

I think it is fun to verbally spare on here because who else are we going to talk to.

I have found out by reading on here that I have much to learn. Many well read people on here even if you do or don't agree with them.

Well said....nothing to disagree with here. I don't always agree with all posts, but always learn a little more than I knew the day before.

[Guest]

[QUOTE=memason;411611]Here's what I find amazing... Anything can be turned to the extreme. If the President does nothing, people complain. If the President does something, people complain. ......people complain, is the common denominator.

I also find it very interesting that folks are more than happy to rebuild Iraq or Afghanistan; assisting Japan with Tsunami relief, etc. But, when comes to helping our fellow Americans, we have all these reasons why our fellow Americans are deadbeats, that they don't want to work... they don't want to pay their bills. Americans are somehow not worthy.

We support the demonstrating masses of countries that want to change their government, but we demonize those who would do the same in our own country (OWS).

We send billions and billions of dollars around the world to help folks, but we don't want to help our own.

Color my very puzzled... :shrug:[/QUOTE


You can color me puzzled too in many aspects of this debate. However most americans were brought up with the belief that people who worked hard, made wise choices, accepted their personal and financial responsibilities etc whould be rewarded for their efforts (i.e the Protestant Ethic philosophy).

However what is occuring here is a gigantic resdistribution scheme which began with FDR continued on with Johnson, Carter Clinton and then with the biggest spender of all of them combined, Obama.

The OWS protester (some) make claim for student loan forgiveness. We all had to pay back our loans or face the consequences.

But what I really want to point out here is the battle that Ed DeMarco, director of Federal Housing Finance Agency is having with Team Obama and many of the iberal Dems. Team Obama, et al want Ed DeMarco to sign off on 1.9 million home mortgage loans made by Fannie and Freddie. In effect wiping out these mortgages. This is part of that gigantic resdistribution scheme with the taxpayer absorbing these costs. DeMarco won't do it.

Where do we stop? Do we forgive loans for every irresponsible spendthrift?

I understand that some people are victims of a bad economy but that has been the case for many many years. People assume risk when they make every and any decision. I for one am tired of bailing out banks, auto companies, homeowners, etc.

Most people are prudent spender, not biting off more than they can chew and establishing a back up plan when contemplating large purchases.

The government his creating a real moral hazard here by their bailouts.

So my focus is what is being done here as it has a "more direct" affect on me.

As to foreign aidI believe it should be withheld unless politicians can make a genuine case that it is strategically needed for national protection. Far too many of our donation end up in the hands of despot and never really are used for intended purposes.

[Guest]

What is frustrating about this position and the regular socialist/communist labeling, is that you ignore the repeated requests to answer whether ANY revenue producing legislation is justifiable. We are not talking about changing the government, We are not talking about "eating the rich" and giving it all away as handouts to 'deadbeats'. What is being asked is whether the Republican position of no new revenue is realistic.

Don't know what you're talking about. I've never refused to answer "repeated requests" (repeated?) about revenue.

The only "revenue enhancement" you want to discuss is "new taxes". The revenue enhancement that's more beneficial is from "new taxpayers". You get new taxpayers by creating incentives for, and removing roadblocks to "business". This is done by "reducing corporate taxes in a manner of certainty", and eliminating regulations that strangle growth.

The resulting economic boom will create all the new revenue you're asking for.

There you go; you've gotten my answer. (even if I didn't know you were waiting for it)

[Guest]

The only "revenue enhancement" you want to discuss is "new taxes". The revenue enhancement that's more beneficial is from "new taxpayers". You get new taxpayers by creating incentives for, and removing roadblocks to "business". This is done by "reducing corporate taxes in a manner of certainty", and eliminating regulations that strangle growth.


X2, what he said

[Guest]

Right on, let's cut the defense budget and leave the handouts alone. Then you might want to start learning a foreign language, say, Chinees perhaps. Nay, let's cut the handouts out first, then start trimming the defense. Might just be a better way to start.

Cutting 10% of the defense budget means saving about $70B in one fell swoop. Do you have any idea of how many other programs you'd have to eliminate entirely to get that kind of payback?

That's not to say that those other agencies should be immune from the knife - quite the contrary.

But the bottom line shows that we could have saved a trillion dollars by not going into Iraq - and who knows how Afghanistan would have gone if we weren't distracted by handing Iraq to the Iranians.

I can tell you from personal experience how SOME military agencies are anticipating what's coming. We're not filling open positions so that we can cut those depending on how much budget slashing we're asked to do (I work for the Air Force). That way we can cut the budget without people losing their jobs. It does make OUR jobs a little harder since we're having to do more with less and I see the stress that's putting on some of my co-workers. That being said, I rather like this job even though I could be making more if I wanted to sacrifice more.