An example of government double standard

[Guest]

I am a spiritual person but not really a religious person so this is not a religious problem for me but a "what are they thinking" question for me.
I was watching the new this afternoon and they were having and piece on the Senate Chaplain. They were showing him giving his prayer to start the session. I have absolutely no problem with this. My problem is why is this fine for the Senate but not for our schools?
And before you come back with the schools have children with differing religions or no religious beliefs at all, I would think that that could be applied to anywhere including the Senate.

So tell me, why is this OK?

By the way the journalist on the show asked this question right after I turned to my wife and asked it and the chaplain said he thought that taking prayer out of the schools was a mistake.

[Guest]

The bigger question is how anyone could possibly say the Founding Fathers set up "separation of church and state" in which there is not only no state-sponsored religion, but no MENTION of our Creator-God in a governmental session.

Check out the long history of the chaplaincy in the House of Representatives:

The Prayer in the First Congress, A.D. 1774
O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!

Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

Amen.

Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.

http://chaplain.house.gov/archive/continental.html

[Guest]

There's a big difference between being an adult and being able to respectfully ignore a prayer versus being a child and having it constantly done every day.

Those of you who hate the idea of certain things being taught in the schools - why is it that so many feel it's ok to do that when it's "religion"?

For what it's worth, a high school I went to in NH seemed to have the perfect compromise - every morning they had a "moment for silent meditation" - you could make of it what you wanted.

[Guest]

There's a big difference between being an adult and being able to respectfully ignore a prayer versus being a child and having it constantly done every day.

Why is it that the children are able to sift through all the other subjects and ideas forced on them by the state and the fed. gov. but somehow when it comes to religion the are not capable to know what to do.

I think it is WAY deaper than that.

And as for adult and being able to respectfully ignore a prayer , why can't those same adults ignore it in the schools?

These days I am afraid a moment of silence for kids is another opportunity to text not pray!

[Guest]

the only problem with the schools is that since we have become such a litigious society and because the leaders (of schools, businesses, etc) are so concerned they might offend somebody they err on the side of flailing in every direction they are yanked whether by one or thousands.

The permissive society can only do just that....cower and cave....never stand up for what is right and by all means continue to ignore the majority.
The only difference between today and yester year is the number of minority (not just race) groups and of course the 24/7 media amplifiers of the minority violations!!!

btk

[Guest]

There's a big difference between being an adult and being able to respectfully ignore a prayer versus being a child and having it constantly done every day.

Those of you who hate the idea of certain things being taught in the schools - why is it that so many feel it's ok to do that when it's "religion"?

For what it's worth, a high school I went to in NH seemed to have the perfect compromise - every morning they had a "moment for silent meditation" - you could make of it what you wanted.

I'm not advocating for prayer in public schools. I do however, think it is SICK that schools have been bullied with political correctness and "separation of church and state", into not even being able to say "Christmas Break" or "Christmas Vacation". Now it's "Winter break" or whatever, as the goal of the "separation of church and state" crowd is changing the words to eventually change the concepts they convey.

"....Rita Breuer has spent years scouring flea markets for old German Christmas ornaments.

She and her daughter Judith developed a fascination with the way Christmas was used by the atheist Nazis, who tried to turn it into a pagan winter solstice celebration.....

...Christmas was a provocation for the Nazis - after all, the baby Jesus was a Jewish child,' Judith Breuer told the German newspaper Spiegel. 'The most important celebration in the year didn't fit with their racist beliefs so they had to react, by trying to make it less Christian.'

The exhibition includes swastika-shaped cookie-cutters and Christmas tree baubles shaped like Iron Cross medals.

The Nazis attempted to persuade housewives to bake cookies in the shape of swastikas, and they replaced the Christian figure of Saint Nicholas, who traditionally brings German children treats on December 6, with the Norse god Odin.

The symbol that posed a particular problem for the Nazis was the star, which traditionally decorates Christmas trees.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1228630/How-Hitlers-Nazi-propaganda-machine-tried-Christ-Christmas.html#ixzz1cN9XXax7.....

[Guest]

and the shame of it all is that well over 80% like it just the way it was.
The watering down and outright deletion of some core values is nothing more than politics and special interest group, minority group minor representation of we the people.

Prime cause of the problems we deal with = politically correct, permissive pacifism, minority representation, against the basic foundation of America.

I have adopted a saying I find myself using all too often......the majority loses another one!!!!

btk

[Guest]

If you're the Jewish kid in Texas who constantly gets called a "Christ killer", you have a different view on this argument.

Why is it that some Christians are so thread-bare in their beliefs that they think the lack of a minute at school to recite a prayer (or be led into one) is going result in disaster? I mean, do you NOT see how close that is to other behaviors that you decry?

And regarding another quote:

She and her daughter Judith developed a fascination with the way Christmas was used by the atheist Nazis, who tried to turn it into a pagan winter solstice celebration.....

I *almost* had to laugh at the irony of this. "Christmas" was originally Yule which WAS (and still is) a pagan winter solstice celebration.

But in all seriousness - would the Christians who speak the loudest in trying to get prayer back in school be so vocal if the Muslims suddenly demanded 5 breaks per day (or however many fall during the school day) to pray in school? If you allow one, you really DO have to allow them all - and is that what you REALLY want? Be careful what you wish for - you might get it.

That being said, I fully support a religious school, like the Catholic schools we have in our town, being free from interference in this matter. It's a private school so the rules are, naturally, different.

[Guest]

I read an article about a school teacher who punished his students who said "God Bless You" to people who sneezed. He would take points off of test scores. After numerous complaints he was forced to stop his ridiculous practices.

[Guest]

dpjlong,

But in all seriousness - would the Christians who speak the loudest in trying to get prayer back in school be so vocal if the Muslims suddenly demanded 5 breaks per day (or however many fall during the school day) to pray in school? If you allow one, you really DO have to allow them all - and is that what you REALLY want? Be careful what you wish for - you might get it.


You hit on exactly what I was getting at in my origonal question.
If you can apply that to the schools then why not the Senate? You know they will not do that there so then why in the schools, double standard.
Thank you for making my point.
Second I do not believe the USA was founded on Muslim principals so why should they allow it.
Do you think that the Muslim schools should allow prayer other than theirs in their schools. They don't and they don't.
Mean while religious schools other than Muslim have to fend off law suits because the have crosses in their school, how dare they!
They don't set up a mosque in a Chatholic school, how dare they.

Like I said I don't have a problem with prayer in school and I am not a overly religious person but how do you permit one and not the other. To me it looks like someone is picking winners and losers. PC at it's worse.

Our ansestors came here to escape religious persecution, and taxation, but now it seams that many spend a great deal of time fending it off, and taxation!

[Guest]

There's a big difference between being an adult and being able to respectfully ignore a prayer versus being a child and having it constantly done every day.

Those of you who hate the idea of certain things being taught in the schools - why is it that so many feel it's ok to do that when it's "religion"?

For what it's worth, a high school I went to in NH seemed to have the perfect compromise - every morning they had a "moment for silent meditation" - you could make of it what you wanted.

The only thing I can say to that is "BS." Furthermore, if you are a Muslim and go to a Catholic College and complain about the crosses go to a different school or shut up. It was their chose to attend a Catholic Univ so put up and shut up or go someplace else.

[Guest]

Mean while religious schools other than Muslim have to fend off law suits because the have crosses in their school, how dare they!


I'm going to have to "Call BS" on that one. Please show me an instance where a Christian religious school, such as a Catholic school, has been forced by government to take down crosses.

Similar things happen all the time in public schools - like a teacher having a Bible on their desk. But I'm talking a *private* religious school.

[Guest]

Figmo: You clearly didn't read what I wrote. I support *private* religious schools being allowed to do what they want in regards to this. It's *public* schools where the controversy arises.

...and I thought that whole "God Bless You" bit was an urban legend. A quick Google search shows I was wrong:

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/09/29/ca-teacher-will-punish-any-student-who-says-god-bless-you/

This teacher should basically be fired for incompetence. 25 points off for common courtesy? LUDICROUS!

[Guest]

Sorry, guy, read your post wrong. Please refund the 25 points. I will read more carefully from now on.

You are right, private schools are private and if you don't like what they do, go else where. But I also think that public schools need to be less PC and more educational.

[Guest]

I'm going to have to "Call BS" on that one. Please show me an instance where a Christian religious school, such as a Catholic school, has been forced by government to take down crosses

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/muslim_attorney_crosses_at_cat_2.html

There you go. I did not say it had been force to take it down but rather having to fend off the attempts.

[Guest]

I would add that the schools do not use any form of PC and get back to basics of right or wrong.

We all know PC is the license to avoid doing or saying what is right or wrong.
Add permissiveness to PC and you have what we have today....the majority takes a beating!!!!!!

btk

[Guest]

Perhaps its me but isn't this thing upside down. Parents (people) make their main focus,fuss and challenges about whether God can be mentioned in class or if a class can begin with a prayer or a Pledge of Allegiance but little is being said about teaching young kids about the use of condoms and then passing them out. Or about how it is OK to be gay and that a family can be comprised of any combination thereof. And finally we all should be rewarded despite our level of effort and/or contribution. Educators are re-writing our history books and have heavily leaned in favor of very liberal views. These young people are getting a distorted view of America's proud history and only one side of the moral issues

Ethical and moral implications of this belief system is something I do not want to address only that if God and country are off limits in schools then perhaps so should the subjects of sex and gender attraction,etc and should be left for parents to discuss with their children. Frankly I see this as another infringement on "the peoples" freedoms. Frankly I believe we should eliuminate the Department of Education and return control to individual states wherein parents will have much more of a say as to what their young childen are being taught. This post hasn't even address the low quality education our kids are receiving up to and including college. that issue in fact is part of the problem presenting itsel with the OWS students protesting stuents loans. Their degrees in many instances left them ill prepared to serve in corporations.

[Guest]

Yes, talk about God in school could confuse the students and violate their sensitivities, but it is perfectly all right to violate most of the students with talk about applying a condom on a banana or Johnny having two fathers.

[Guest]

I'm going to have to "Call BS" on that one. Please show me an instance where a Christian religious school, such as a Catholic school, has been forced by government to take down crosses.

Similar things happen all the time in public schools - like a teacher having a Bible on their desk. But I'm talking a *private* religious school.

2009 commencement speech given by Obama at Gerogetown University, a Jesuit institution...IHS and cross covered up per request of the White House. tsk,tsk,tsk

[Guest]

There's a HUGE difference between "taking down" and having something temporarily covered up at the request of a *guest* speaker.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd presume that the WH simply wanted to avoid appearing to endorse any particular religion.

This sounds like a tempest in a teapot - you made it sound like the government was coming in and tearing down crosses. Did Georgetown U. make a big deal of it?

[Guest]

There's a HUGE difference between "taking down" and having something temporarily covered up at the request of a *guest* speaker.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd presume that the WH simply wanted to avoid appearing to endorse any particular religion.

This sounds like a tempest in a teapot - you made it sound like the government was coming in and tearing down crosses. Did Georgetown U. make a big deal of it?

I disagree. Katz did nothing of the sort.

The White House knew what their institution was based on. Why should they have to cover up anything?

Either accept them as they are and what they stand for or don't accept the invitation.

TSK TSK TSK to Georgetown for going against their principles and a double TSK TSK TSK to the White House for asking them to do it.

[Guest]

I disagree. Katz did nothing of the sort.

The White House knew what their institution was based on. Why should they have to cover up anything?

Either accept them as they are and what they stand for or don't accept the invitation.

TSK TSK TSK to Georgetown for going against their principles and a double TSK TSK TSK to the White House for asking them to do it.

I agree.

[Guest]

Boy djplong,
I wonder if you just play devils advocate or you really believe some of this "BS" that you say.
I guess a law should be passed that says if you have a religious symbol it must have a curtain installed so it can be pulled at any time. That way someone will not be offended or feel uncomfortable or have a conviction.

Lets reprint our money because we don't want to offend all of these "gimee-gimee" people out there on wall street by giving them money with In "God We Trust" on it.

Really I am starting to believe that you look this stuff up and reference it on here just to always present the other side. Not always left but the other side.
Do you really believe this.......

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd presume that the WH simply wanted to avoid appearing to endorse any particular religion

That did not hold him back when he listened to Rev. Wright. Oh, wait, I guess he believed in that stuff???

[Guest]

That did not hold him back when he listened to Rev. Wright. Oh, wait, I guess he believed in that stuff???

He listened to him for 19 years before he threw him under the bus for political reasons.

[Guest]

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/10/muslim_attorney_crosses_at_cat_2.html

There you go. I did not say it had been force to take it down but rather having to fend off the attempts.

Yes - I see the distinction.

Some clarification.

There doesn't appear to be a lawsuit yet. Just an investigation from the "Washington, D.C. Office of Human Rights "

The complaint is made by a *GWU* (George Washington University) professor complaining about the CUA (Catholic University of America).

The complaint says there is no space free of crosses and the implication is that he (the complainant) wants a cross-free space. He does NOT seem to say that he wants crosses taken down.

CUA responds that NO student has registered a complaint with them.

Most damning of all against the GWU prof:

Banzhaf also complained that CUA does not sponsor a Muslim student association. But the Tower reports an Arab American Student Association recently formed on campus. The founder, Wiaam Al Salmi, told the Tower, “The community here is very respectful of other religions and I feel free to openly practice it.”


So, just to restate one of the finer points - there is no lawsuit. Just a complaint to a human rights agency - though I would concur that CUA's response *is* a form of 'fending off'.

People who have known me for a while know that I am no fan of the Catholic Church. But in this case, I'm on their side.

[Guest]

Not a bad response but I have to say that in this day and age the way that people bring lawsuits is by allegations and complaints in the media to bring pressure on someone to do what they want while trying to act like they really are not doing anything. Cowardly if you ask me.
These days using catch phrases like Human rights or discrimination or racist are ways of labeling someone guilty of something without the benefit of the whole truth.
So if you want to pray where there is no cross go out side or build your own mosque close by.
Don't go into a religious school and ask them to change what it is they are about.
Or better yet if it is good for our public schools why not our universities, pray silently to yourself or a moment of silence and quit griping.

[Guest]

Banzhaf was interviewed by Monica Crowley last week, He said that he has filed hundreds of law suits, over the years. He stated that that was what he does. How nice.

[Guest]

...I wonder if he considers himself a 'job creator' keeping lawyers employed.

[Guest]

just for squirts and giggles...the next time you go to a different city just open the yellow pages and take note of how many pages are attorneys/lawyers/legal etc. It is amazingly huge.

All these people are trained to use, abuse, quote or hide behind the letter of the law based solely upon the needs of their current client....whether they are guilty or not or deserving or not or right or wrong. And because there are so many is why we have become such a litigious society.....to keep these masses busy.

btk

[Guest]

Loser Pays,
That would would put and end to most of this PC crap.

[Guest]

Not a bad response but I have to say that in this day and age the way that people bring lawsuits is by allegations and complaints in the media to bring pressure on someone to do what they want while trying to act like they really are not doing anything. Cowardly if you ask me.
These days using catch phrases like Human rights or discrimination or racist are ways of labeling someone guilty of something without the benefit of the whole truth.
So if you want to pray where there is no cross go out side or build your own mosque close by.
Don't go into a religious school and ask them to change what it is they are about.
Or better yet if it is good for our public schools why not our universities, pray silently to yourself or a moment of silence and quit griping.


Public universities are one thing...Georgetown is a Catholic university. Praying is what they do!

[Guest]

KatzPajamas
We are in agreement! My post was being facetious when talking about universities.

[Guest]

KatzPajamas
We are in agreement! My post was being facetious when talking about universities.


Oh...sorry, I misread your post.:oops: