A brave man today

[Guest]

I read in the paper this morning an AP story about the head of the Marines, who had been a very outspoken critic of the idea of integrating openly gay marines into service. He was adamantly against it. Today he stated that his concerns were completely unfounded and there have been absolutely NO problems with marines being open about their sexuality. He actually said he had been WRONG!

This is a brave man, to publicly state that he was wrong about this issue. I admire anyone who can publicly say they were wrong. Of course, he must have known that there have been gay marines as long as there have been marines. But kudos to him...

[Guest]

Now I find this fascinating. 25 people read this and not one person commented. Am I wrong in saying that this is a brave man or is it that you think he is wrong on the issue and therefore disappointed that he said what he did? I am guessing you think he is wrong on the issue.

[Guest]

I read it and agree with you on the respect that ought to be had for people changing their stance when seeing good reason to do that. That's why I don't agree with people who mock the presidential candidates for being "flip floppers" on certain policies. Also, I know people who have had major turning points and total 180 turn in direction in their personal lives, and their conversion to cleaner living is authentic.

My only thought about the Marine's statement is he concluded there are no problems with the openly gay policy when really, very little time has passed since the policy change.

Time-tested policies are a good thing, I think.

[Guest]

I read it and agree with you on the respect that ought to be had for people changing their stance when seeing good reason to do that. That's why I don't agree with people who mock the presidential candidates for being "flip floppers" on certain policies. Also, I know people who have had major turning points and total 180 turn in direction in their personal lives, and their conversion to cleaner living is authentic.

My only thought about the Marine's statement is he concluded there are no problems with the openly gay policy when really, very little time has passed since the policy change.

Time-tested policies are a good thing, I think.

I agree....you should be able to change your mind when presented with new information without being called a flip flopper.

[Guest]

I read it and agree with you on the respect that ought to be had for people changing their stance when seeing good reason to do that. That's why I don't agree with people who mock the presidential candidates for being "flip floppers" on certain policies. Also, I know people who have had major turning points and total 180 turn in direction in their personal lives, and their conversion to cleaner living is authentic.

My only thought about the Marine's statement is he concluded there are no problems with the openly gay policy when really, very little time has passed since the policy change.

Time-tested policies are a good thing, I think.

I agree....you should be able to change your mind when presented with new information without being called a flip flopper.

You are right ladydoc, he is courageous to come out and openly admit he was wrong and face hostility from many. You are both right about the "flip-flop" issue, although there are some who do change their public stance simply to garner favor from voters or partisans of an issue. It baffles me that many people will argue vehemently on a given side of an issue, apparently hoping to change the hearts and minds of people with whom they disagree, then label anyone they may have influenced to change position a "flip-flopper", or without any true conviction . Oh well, trying to understand how or why human beings function is well beyond my intellectual capacity.

[Guest]

There is nothing wrong in changing your mind on an issue - any issue. It shows a certain level of maturity and even an evolving position based on life exeriences. Nothing wrong with that. What IS wrong is when a pol takes a stand on an issue before a certain group of folks, and then takes a different stand on the same issue with a different group of folks. That is a flopper.

Those who are keeping quiet on this are the ones who booed that US Marine at one of the Republican debate because of his orientation.

[Guest]

There are always many facets to a story. I think he was doing the right thing both then and now.


"Looking back, Amos said he had no regrets about publicly opposing repeal during wartime. He said he had felt obliged, as commandant of the Corps, to set aside his personal opinions and represent the views of the 56 percent of combat Marines who told a Defense Department survey last year that repeal could make them less effective and cohesive in combat."

http://news.yahoo.com/top-marine-fears-ending-gay-ban-prove-founded-203204250.html

[Guest]

There are always many facets to a story. I think he was doing the right thing both then and now.



http://news.yahoo.com/top-marine-fears-ending-gay-ban-prove-founded-203204250.html

Absolutely...a brave man to say all this publicly. We need some folks like him in congress.

[Guest]

What choice did he have? The train seemed to have left the station already whether liked or not.

[Guest]

being a high ranking general he is in the political stream, like it or not.

He did what he had to do to represent to the corps the order of the day....and keep his job!

Hence we will never know if he really changed his mind or not. His public statement does not have to equate to changing his mind.

btk

[Guest]

I am a 22 year Army vet and I have a problem with openly Gay, but then I have a problem with men and women fighting side by side in combat. Their are roles for women and Gay soldiers, but not on the battle Field. If its OK for gay and straight men to shower together, why is it not OK for men and women to shower together?????????????????? If you are a gay male, in my opinion, you are more woman than man therefore, should be treated more like a women than a man.

[Guest]

If this is the Marine who published an article concerning against repealing DADT because of its devasting effects in the Wall Street Journal about a year ago then, yes I am totally surprised because his rationale was sound.

I am in agreement with those posters who believe this change is yet "time tested" and /or this Marine had to fall in line or he would have been sent packing. As we use to say in the military when your asked to do something "volunteer".

Brave man??? Savvy more like it.

[Guest]

I am a 22 year Army vet and I have a problem with openly Gay, but then I have a problem with men and women fighting side by side in combat. Their are roles for women and Gay soldiers, but not on the battle Field. If its OK for gay and straight men to shower together, why is it not OK for men and women to shower together?????????????????? If you are a gay male, in my opinion, you are more woman than man therefore, should be treated more like a women than a man.

Saying a gay man is more like a woman then a man is pretty out there thinking. Gay men are not defined by their sexuality anymore then you are.

Because you prefer woman do you lust and after and make advances to every woman you see? I would guess not. Believe it or not, gay men are not attracted at EVERY man they see. If you were in the military you have already showered with gay men. I think the gay professional sports figures would disagree about them being more like women then men. You say this only because the gay men you have met are NOT blatant stereotypes.

[Guest]

If this is the Marine who published an article concerning against repealing DADT because of its devasting effects in the Wall Street Journal about a year ago then, yes I am totally surprised because his rationale was sound.

I am in agreement with those posters who believe this change is yet "time tested" and /or this Marine had to fall in line or he would have been sent packing. As we use to say in the military when your asked to do something "volunteer".

Brave man??? Savvy more like it.

I guess time will tell.....

[Guest]

There is nothing wrong in changing your mind on an issue - any issue. It shows a certain level of maturity and even an evolving position based on life exeriences. Nothing wrong with that. What IS wrong is when a pol takes a stand on an issue before a certain group of folks, and then takes a different stand on the same issue with a different group of folks. That is a flopper.

Those who are keeping quiet on this are the ones who booed that US Marine at one of the Republican debate because of his orientation.

You think it's his orientation that people were booing....while maybe they didn't post here because they had nothing to ADD to the first post.....and so you stereotype everyone conservative here as being homophobic, when that is not the case.

When that gay soldier started to speak on the big screen during the debate, nobody in the audience made so much as a peep when he said, "and I am a gay soldier". Not one sound in the pause between sentences. Then he continued on, asking Santorum if during his presidency, he would "circumvent the progress that has been made for gays in the military". Only then did one or two people start to boo. It was the idea of "circumventing" the policy now in place that drew the boos, not necessarily the fact that he said he was a gay soldier.

It is a huge stretch of the imagination to assume that every GOPer there and here can't stand this soldier's "orientation". A future president willing to "circumvent" the current policy is what sends up red flags to thinking people on both sides.

[Guest]

Saying a gay man is more like a woman then a man is pretty out there thinking. Gay men are not defined by their sexuality anymore then you are.

Because you prefer woman do you lust and after and make advances to every woman you see? I would guess not. Believe it or not, gay men are not attracted at EVERY man they see. If you were in the military you have already showered with gay men. I think the gay professional sports figures would disagree about them being more like women then men. You say this only because the gay men you have met are NOT blatant stereotypes.

I agree with all you say, but not when it comes to the military where sameness is paramount. If you have openly GAY, at least with some flamboyant men, you will know and that would be hard for lots of men to handle, me for one. AS for women in combat, I do not lust after every women I see, but if a foxy lady was in the shower naked with me, I would have a hard time talking about the firing range of that day. Real men do not act nor perform to the same level of professionalism around women. Seconds count. Snap best decisions count. Mission only thoughts Count When in combat. I am just saying. And most important, most battle field military are young and high on testosterone already. I am just saying. Put the women and Gay men in the military careers like clerical and the FIGHTING MEN in combat.

[Guest]

I agree with all you say, but not when it comes to the military where sameness is paramount. If you have openly GAY, at least with some flamboyant men, you will know and that would be hard for lots of men to handle, me for one. AS for women in combat, I do not lust after every women I see, but if a foxy lady was in the shower naked with me, I would have a hard time talking about the firing range of that day. Real men do not act nor perform to the same level of professionalism around women. Seconds count. Snap best decisions count. Mission only thoughts Count When in combat. I am just saying. And most important, most battle field military are young and high on testosterone already. I am just saying. Put the women and Gay men in the military careers like clerical and the FIGHTING MEN in combat.

You and I must have been in different armys. The women I had working for me and those that I worked for where very good at their jobs and they weren't clerks or cooks. As for being gay, there have been gays in the Army since the beginning of time. Just saying what if that manly man next to you who won the Silver Star and safed your life could have been gay. Would you wanted him to be a cook or clerk? Sorry old buddy, but we disagree on this from the get go. Everyone needs to service their country and I mean everyone.

[Guest]

I agree with all you say, but not when it comes to the military where sameness is paramount. If you have openly GAY, at least with some flamboyant men, you will know and that would be hard for lots of men to handle, me for one. AS for women in combat, I do not lust after every women I see, but if a foxy lady was in the shower naked with me, I would have a hard time talking about the firing range of that day. Real men do not act nor perform to the same level of professionalism around women. Seconds count. Snap best decisions count. Mission only thoughts Count When in combat. I am just saying. And most important, most battle field military are young and high on testosterone already. I am just saying. Put the women and Gay men in the military careers like clerical and the FIGHTING MEN in combat.

I am interested in your comment that real men do not perform to the same level of professionalism around women. Is this based on any actual study or co-ordinated observation? For example...women's voices are used in emergency situations because men respond FASTER to them ie: in cockpits. Males generally would respond, I think, faster in a critical combat situation based on a very primal level instinct to protect the females. I am not necessarily disagreeing with you, but am interested on what you based this opinion.

[Guest]

Let me clarify: I go back to the original thought that being OPENLY GAY. To me that means being obvious or flamboyant about being gay. I have serviced with gays in the military and had no problem with that. I had a gay female E6 work for me in Germany that I would lead or follow into combat, but she was not openly gay. For a man to be gay in the military is one thing, but if I see him in the club after work wearing a dress and makeup, it would bother me in formation the next morning. Sorry, but I am mid west farm boy and gay was just not done OPENLY. I do not wish to see anyone kissing and fondling each other at the square in the evening, but if it is two women or two men, it would bother me even more. Keep your sexuality private and I got your back.

[Guest]

Let me clarify: I go back to the original thought that being OPENLY GAY. To me that means being obvious or flamboyant about being gay. I have serviced with gays in the military and had no problem with that. I had a gay female E6 work for me in Germany that I would lead or follow into combat, but she was not openly gay. For a man to be gay in the military is one thing, but if I see him in the club after work wearing a dress and makeup, it would bother me in formation the next morning. Sorry, but I am mid west farm boy and gay was just not done OPENLY. I do not wish to see anyone kissing and fondling each other at the square in the evening, but if it is two women or two men, it would bother me even more. Keep your sexuality private and I got your back.

I don't think the military would be a vocation of chose for most of the gay men you describe. And I do agree that public displays of affection are just uncomfortable for everyone. I don't even like to see heterosexual couples PDA beyond a hug or kiss. Certain things are private and no one else wants to see it.

[Guest]

I don't think the military would be a vocation of chose for most of the gay men you describe. And I do agree that public displays of affection are just uncomfortable for everyone. I don't even like to see heterosexual couples PDA beyond a hug or kiss. Certain things are private and no one else wants to see it.

Exactly my point. Whew, I have the hardest time explaining myself. It is very fortunate that I am so good looking, cause at this age it is very apparent I will never be smart or rich, and I cant even sing or dance.

:beer3:

[Guest]

You and I must have been in different armys. The women I had working for me and those that I worked for where very good at their jobs and they weren't clerks or cooks. As for being gay, there have been gays in the Army since the beginning of time. Just saying what if that manly man next to you who won the Silver Star and safed your life could have been gay. Would you wanted him to be a cook or clerk? Sorry old buddy, but we disagree on this from the get go. Everyone needs to service their country and I mean everyone.

Excellent post.

[Guest]

Saying a gay man is more like a woman then a man is pretty out there thinking. Gay men are not defined by their sexuality anymore then you are.

Because you prefer woman do you lust and after and make advances to every woman you see? I would guess not. Believe it or not, gay men are not attracted at EVERY man they see. If you were in the military you have already showered with gay men. I think the gay professional sports figures would disagree about them being more like women then men. You say this only because the gay men you have met are NOT blatant stereotypes.

Quite to the contrary, psychatrists have written that the one issue that defines a man is that he loves women. Gay men love men .

[Guest]

Quite to the contrary, psychatrists have written that the one issue that defines a man is that he loves women. Gay men love men .

Don't agree with me on this one. I am just an outdated, set in my ways, old fashioned good ole boy when it comes to gay vs straight. Both my kids tell me I am 50 years behind in my thinking and they may be right, so call me a dinosaur but if your a flamboyant GAY man, don't try to give me a hug.

[Guest]

Quite to the contrary, psychatrists have written that the one issue that defines a man is that he loves women. Gay men love men .

Can you share with me what psychiatrist has written that? I would be interested in reading the original text. A lot of Gay men love women...but they do not want to have sex with them though.

I have worked with many men who "love" women so much that they beat the crap out of them, cheat on them and on and on. I am sure you get my point. I think it would be more accurate to say that heterosexual men want sexual relations with women. I don't think ANY one thing defines anyone...