Morse Organization

[fraurauch]

Sometime ago, someone posted a link for the Morse organization and all the associated companies. It looked like a giant spider web. Does anyone remember that link? I was telling someone about it but couldn't remember how to get to it.

[graciegirl]

Sometime ago, someone posted a link for the Morse organization and all the associated companies. It looked like a giant spider web. Does anyone remember that link? I was telling someone about it but couldn't remember how to get to it.

Yes. That is really interesting to see how many things they are involved in!

I hope someone can find it, Frau!

[Virtual Geezer]

Here is the main link. http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/BusinessDirectory.aspx

Now in the search bar enter the name of the person or company name you are looking for.

Standard disclaimer applies. I am not responsible for the hours you are going to spend on this great site searching on anything you can think of.

VG

[fraurauch]

Got it! Thanks.

[graciegirl]

I am not typing in the right link.

The one I was thinking of brings you directly to a series of boxes with all of the Morse conglomerate enterprises...i.e. Citizens Bank etc. etc. etc.

[fraurauch]

Gracie, try this --

www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/The-Villages/the-villages-operating-company-4063838.aspx

That will open up the chart and then you can click on the various icons to see how many companies there really are. Mind boggling.

[jackz]

President at Central Sumter Utility Company, LLC
at Clearlink Communication, L.L.C.
Director and President at Diversified Commercial Property Services, Inc.
Managing Member at H. Gary Morse Medical Ventures, LLC
Managing Member at Hgbb, LLC
President, Director and Chairman at Holding Company of The Villages, Inc.
at Insurance Agencies of The Villages, Inc.
Director and President at Lbcv, Inc.
Director and President at Legacy Golf & Country Club, Inc.
Director and President at Little Sumter Residual Company
Manager at Mmmp, LLC
Director and President at Musical Holdings, Inc.
President at North Sumter Utility Company, L.L.C.
President and Director at PM3, Inc.
Manager at Port Ferdinand 2, LLC
Manager at Port Ferdinand, LLC
Director, Secretary and Vice President at Properties of The Villages, Inc.
Manager at St. Peters Bay Holdings 2, LLC
Manager at St. Peters Bay Holdings, LLC
Managing Member at Sunset Silver Lake, LLC
Director at The Villages Family Company
at The Villages Health System Foundation, Inc.
President, Chairman and Director at The Villages of Lake-Sumter, Inc.
Chairman, President and Director at The Villages Operating Company
President at The Villages Water Conservation Authority, L.L.C
Director at Villages Bancorporation, Inc.
Director and President at Villages Equipment Company

[graciegirl]

Where are the other 12 pages? ;)

[scrapple]

Wow! How does he find the time? Or any of them for that matter!

[janmcn]

Think of it this way: Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night, from the food you eat to the water you use to flush your toilet, the Morse family gets a cut. It's like living in an old mill town where the mill owner owned everything and let the workers live there as long as they abide by all the rules. Just pray that the Morse family doesn't get perped walked by the IRS out of here to the big house where Bernie Madoff resides.

[Larry Wilson]

Glad you said it janmcn. He's also a silent partner in some other organizations. I know because brother-in-law is a partner.
This is a group of cheerleaders on this site but many people are waking up. Its all PR. Now go pay that 60 thousand bond or whatever your bond is... that is hidden in the advertised price of your home.

[Bogie Shooter]

Glad you said it janmcn. He's also a silent partner in some other organizations. I know because brother-in-law is a partner.
This is a group of cheerleaders on this site but many people are waking up. Its all PR. Now go pay that 60 thousand bond or whatever your bond is... that is hidden in the advertised price of your home.

Was there a bond on your home or maybe you don't live here???

[graciegirl]

.

Why would anyone think just because people are in business to make money and they DO make money and a LOT of money that they are criminals?

Free enterprise is the American way. That doesn't mean the Morses are saints but it doesn't mean they are sinners either.

I very much don't like you calling anyone who is not negative, a "Cheerleader", Larry. But in my case it is true

P.S. I knew the moment that I read Frau's original post that we would hear this stuff.

[ilovetv]

Here we go again.

Morses are republicans. Oprah is a democrat.

If Oprah built a community like this, I'd buy from her, too, but so far that hasn't happened.

I love what Morses have built and made available to purchase on our own free will.

[The Shadow]

The bad news is you can not buy publicly traded stock.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o162/sticom/Squidoo/monopoly-man.gif

[fraurauch]

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms. I was just looking for the link to pass on to someone else. Oh well!

[graciegirl]

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms. I was just looking for the link to pass on to someone else. Oh well!

I think it is a good link Frau. An interesting link that shows this isn't a one horse town even if it is run by one horse. One very powerful stallion.

You certainly did not open a can a worms, Frau.

Hugs.:wave:

[PennBF]

Gracie Girl..I agree with you. They deserve the rewards for all they have given to the residents and I wish them all the best. We can't deny them
gaining from the fruits of their labor. How can anyone deny them and then in the second sentence say we live in "Paradise". People are fighting to come to The Villages !! :clap2:

[BobKat1]

.

Why would anyone think just because people are in business to make money and they DO make money and a LOT of money that they are criminals?

Free enterprise is the American way. That doesn't mean the Morses are saints but it doesn't mean they are sinners either.

I very much don't like you calling anyone who is not negative, a "Cheerleader", Larry. But in my case it is true

P.S. I knew the moment that I read Frau's original post that we would hear this stuff.

Me too. It didn't take too many posts.

[jblum315]

Think of it this way: Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night, from the food you eat to the water you use to flush your toilet, the Morse family gets a cut. It's like living in an old mill town where the mill owner owned everything and let the workers live there as long as they abide by all the rules. Just pray that the Morse family doesn't get perped walked by the IRS out of here to the big house where Bernie Madoff resides.

Kind of silly. We are not workers. We are home owners.

[mrfixit]

....IMHO.....The ENTIRE Morse family deserves a BIG Thank You for providing us with such a WONDERFUL place in which to live...:bigbow:

[ilovetv]

...

[downeaster]

...


Sorry to hijack this thread but I frequently see replies such as "....." and have no idea what that means. Would someone please enlighten me. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with something posted?

[Bogie Shooter]

Sorry to hijack this thread but I frequently see replies such as "....." and have no idea what that means. Would someone please enlighten me. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with something posted?

It is called bumping. This brings the thread back up to the New Posts.

[downeaster]

Thanks Bogie Shooter. I am not keeping up with the times. I guess typing .... is easier than typing bump. I am too soon old, too late smart.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Sometimes it'll be done if someone posts a reply then would choose to want to delete their post. No can do - software doesn't allow a member to do that. So some people will just Edit their post by wiping out all their prior typing and key in a couple of characters, just to satisfy the software's requirement of having SOMETHING typed in.

Bill :)

[rubicon]

....IMHO.....The ENTIRE Morse family deserves a BIG Thank You for providing us with such a WONDERFUL place in which to live...:bigbow:

Yea, they did it from the bottom of their hearts.:wave: Just ask the IRS.

[Indy-Guy]

Sometime ago, someone posted a link for the Morse organization and all the associated companies. It looked like a giant spider web. Does anyone remember that link? I was telling someone about it but couldn't remember how to get to it.



Perhaps these are the ones you are referring to.

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Flori...y-4063838.aspx

And this one

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Flori...e-6581769.aspx

[Taj44]

Yea, they did it from the bottom of their hearts.:wave: Just ask the IRS.


good one Rubicon! chuckle, chuckle....

[graciegirl]

Perhaps these are the ones you are referring to.

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Flori...y-4063838.aspx

And this one

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Flori...e-6581769.aspx

Bumpity bump bump

[Advogado]

Glad you said it janmcn. He's also a silent partner in some other organizations. I know because brother-in-law is a partner.
This is a group of cheerleaders on this site but many people are waking up. Its all PR. Now go pay that 60 thousand bond or whatever your bond is... that is hidden in the advertised price of your home.

It is surprising that some consumer-protection agency has not required prominent disclosure of the amount of the bond in advertisements quoting home prices.

[Happinow]

The Morse's seem to be involved in quite an empire. But they had to start somewhere. Case and point......there is a contractor where we live that owns a lot of our town, has at least 1000 rental properties (and is still building), owns an airport, airplane, etc. My mom was his nanny for his 2 small children 20 years ago. He started out as a general contractor building houses. He started small and built his empire. He lives in what looks like a 5000-6000 sq ft home on top of a hill that I can see from my house. That's what the Morse's probably did. It's a lot of work and a HUGE sacrifice in life. Some people are just wired to be entrepreneurs . I say as long as he does things legally, he deserves what he has. :spoken:

[Dirigo]

Kind of silly. We are not workers. We are home owners.

We are *customers* and the Morse family gives us what we want to buy and does a fantastic job of it. They have built something unique on the face of the earth and I feel darn lucky to finally be here.

I knew exactly what I was getting into when we bought here (thanks to TOTV). I know the Morse family makes lots of money, but when you build a better mouse trap you deserve to make lots of money.

I'm happy to see the depth of involvement of the Morse family. It means they are in charge.

I know someone who works for TV and with members of the Morse family. He tells me "making people's dreams come true" is job #1.

And no matter what your position is in the TV organization whenever a prospective buyer or a resident asks you a question, answering that person's question becomes your #1 job priority and you don't do anything else until that question is answered. I have experienced this first hand and it really happened with us.

The Villages employee dropped what he was doing and took a half and hour calling this person and that person until our question was answered to our satisfaction. Amazing. This wasn't a Sales Rep question either, it was *way* back office employee answering a technical question. I bet this guy only talks to a prospective buyer or homeowner once or twice a year. Based on that answer we bought a house. Our dream came true. He did his job.

Shop and play off-campus if you want to save some dough...we do...but when the day comes for us to hang up the car keys, we'll be delighted to be able to drive to shopping plazas in our golf cart and happy to pay a premium to do so.

I'm back in Maine working for the next two weeks and two days (not that I'm counting or anything), but I'll be home for our first Christmas in TV.

[ilovetv]

The complaints about Morse are, to me, a moot point.

Like everything else in this country, (except taxes), you can always "take it or leave it".

Nobody had a gun to our heads when signing a contract to buy here. In fact, we couldn't wait to sign and get our keys. Have never regretted it for even a second.

[billethkid]

I wonder if some feel the same negative way about the likes of Sam Walton....and using the negative method I will say...you know the guy who made multi-billions taking YOUR money at Walmart and Sam's!!!!
There must be something wrong that one man can do stuff like that and get away with it.

Ditto the guy who did Home Depot.

Or Bill Gates.

Just to name a few who are bigger than Morse....now just what did they do wrong....they all did it with your money....eh?

btk

[Jim Straz]

We are *customers* and the Morse family gives us what we want to buy and does a fantastic job of it. They have built something unique on the face of the earth and I feel darn lucky to finally be here.

I knew exactly what I was getting into when we bought here (thanks to TOTV). I know the Morse family makes lots of money, but when you build a better mouse trap you deserve to make lots of money.

I'm happy to see the depth of involvement of the Morse family. It means they are in charge.

I know someone who works for TV and with members of the Morse family. He tells me "making people's dreams come true" is job #1.

And no matter what your position is in the TV organization whenever a prospective buyer or a resident asks you a question, answering that person's question becomes your #1 job priority and you don't do anything else until that question is answered. I have experienced this first hand and it really happened with us.

The Villages employee dropped what he was doing and took a half and hour calling this person and that person until our question was answered to our satisfaction. Amazing. This wasn't a Sales Rep question either, it was *way* back office employee answering a technical question. I bet this guy only talks to a prospective buyer or homeowner once or twice a year. Based on that answer we bought a house. Our dream came true. He did his job.

Shop and play off-campus if you want to save some dough...we do...but when the day comes for us to hang up the car keys, we'll be delighted to be able to drive to shopping plazas in our golf cart and happy to pay a premium to do so.

I'm back in Maine working for the next two weeks and two days (not that I'm counting or anything), but I'll be home for our first Christmas in TV.
I agree, well said!

[Challenger]

We are *customers* and the Morse family gives us what we want to buy and does a fantastic job of it. They have built something unique on the face of the earth and I feel darn lucky to finally be here.

I knew exactly what I was getting into when we bought here (thanks to TOTV). I know the Morse family makes lots of money, but when you build a better mouse trap you deserve to make lots of money.

I'm happy to see the depth of involvement of the Morse family. It means they are in charge.

I know someone who works for TV and with members of the Morse family. He tells me "making people's dreams come true" is job #1.

And no matter what your position is in the TV organization whenever a prospective buyer or a resident asks you a question, answering that person's question becomes your #1 job priority and you don't do anything else until that question is answered. I have experienced this first hand and it really happened with us.

The Villages employee dropped what he was doing and took a half and hour calling this person and that person until our question was answered to our satisfaction. Amazing. This wasn't a Sales Rep question either, it was *way* back office employee answering a technical question. I bet this guy only talks to a prospective buyer or homeowner once or twice a year. Based on that answer we bought a house. Our dream came true. He did his job.

Shop and play off-campus if you want to save some dough...we do...but when the day comes for us to hang up the car keys, we'll be delighted to be able to drive to shopping plazas in our golf cart and happy to pay a premium to do so.

I'm back in Maine working for the next two weeks and two days (not that I'm counting or anything), but I'll be home for our first Christmas in TV.

Nice to hear- This will PO the conspiracy theorist among us

[buggyone]

Regarding the bond price not being shown in the home price, you would like to see, for example, Home for sale in Bridgeport at Laurel Valley, $679,985 plus $49,950 bond? Seems kind of silly to me. Everyone who researches The Villages knows of the bonds.

Personally, I did not want a large bond, so I bought a re-sale home and almost all of the bond had been paid off in previous years. Saved me at least $25,000 - and the house is great.

[Taj44]

I wonder if some feel the same negative way about the likes of Sam Walton....and using the negative method I will say...you know the guy who made multi-billions taking YOUR money at Walmart and Sam's!!!!
There must be something wrong that one man can do stuff like that and get away with it.

Ditto the guy who did Home Depot.

Or Bill Gates.

Just to name a few who are bigger than Morse....now just what did they do wrong....they all did it with your money....eh?

btk

You gotta be kidding, or else you should find someone else other than Sam Walton to make your point. Walmart has been accused of predatory pricing; Sam Walton bragged about how he took advantage of his workers paying them low wages and low benefits; a 2005 class action lawsuit in Missouri asserted approximately 160,000 to 200,000 people who were forced to work off-the-clock, were denied overtime pay, or were not allowed to take rest and lunch breaks....In the mid-1990s, Walmart had a "Buy American" campaign. Yet by 2005, about 60% of Walmart's merchandise was imported.

[graciegirl]

You gotta be kidding, or else you should find someone else other than Sam Walton to make your point. Walmart has been accused of predatory pricing; Sam Walton bragged about how he took advantage of his workers paying them low wages and low benefits; a 2005 class action lawsuit in Missouri asserted approximately 160,000 to 200,000 people who were forced to work off-the-clock, were denied overtime pay, or were not allowed to take rest and lunch breaks....In the mid-1990s, Walmart had a "Buy American" campaign. Yet by 2005, about 60% of Walmart's merchandise was imported.

I had to look up what predatory pricing was.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

[BigLew]

I never worried about what the Ford family owned when I bought one of their cars! oh yeah ... ...
:ohdear:

[2BNTV]

Most people give me a look that I must be smoking the funny weed when I try to explain what TV is all about.

Hats off to the "Morse" family for being visionaries and businessmen who made TV what it is today and for what it will be going forwrad.

It may not be perfect but nothing else I have seen comes close to matching all of the amenties it has.

[ilovetv]

I never worried about what the Ford family owned when I bought one of their cars! oh yeah ... ...
:ohdear:

Or Heinz Ketchup.

[Larry Wilson]

Never had to pay a bond or monthly payments either.
Absolutely beautiful weather here today. Everyone enjoy!

[graciegirl]

Never had to pay a bond or monthly payments either.
Absolutely beautiful weather here today. Everyone enjoy!

No, none of us had to do that before. The cost of the infrastructure was part of the advertised sale price of the house in the other parts of the country.

The bond price is simple information to absorb. I think the simplest way to figure the bond on a property is this. A property selling for $229 has a bond of approximately 22 thousand. A property selling for $560 has a bond of approximatly 56 thousand. It is easy to figure. Add about ten percent to a new home for the pipes and the wires and the pools and the golfcart paths and the streets and the streetlights and the golf courses and the pickleball courts etc. etc. (The Republican editorials in the local newspaper are extra) Had to throw that in to see if you all were paying attention. ;).

Once you get over the hump of adding that price to the sale price of the home you can move on with your life.

And enjoy the beautiful weather as we are all doing.

[Pturner]

Think of it this way: Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night, from the food you eat to the water you use to flush your toilet, the Morse family gets a cut. It's like living in an old mill town where the mill owner owned everything and let the workers live there as long as they abide by all the rules. Just pray that the Morse family doesn't get perped walked by the IRS out of here to the big house where Bernie Madoff resides.

Hi Jan,
There's something about this argument I don't get. "Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night..." somebody gets a cut.

Make that many, many somebodies. The manufacturers, distributors and retailers, and their employees, lawyers, accountants, and scientists, inventors, investors, bankers, etc. all get a cut, whether for your mattress, your toothbrush, the toilet you flush, the road you drive on, the clothes you wear, the activities you're involved in, the programs you watch and on and on.

Now the Morse's were entrepreneurial enough, visionary enough, savvy enough, hard working enough to build a fabulous community like no other on earth that would also provide a need for other goods and services that they were enterprising enough to supply and for the goods and services sold by other businesses to whom they lease.

Therefore yes, the Morse's get a cut from many of your activities. They are among the many somebodies who get a cut from everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night. If they didn't get their particular cuts, another supplier would.

When you think of it this way... what's the problem?

[eweissenbach]

Hi Jan,
There's something about this argument I don't get. "Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night..." somebody gets a cut.

Make that many, many somebodies. The manufacturers, distributors and retailers, and their employees, lawyers, accountants, and scientists, inventors, investors, bankers, etc. all get a cut, whether for your mattress, your toothbrush, the toilet you flush, the road you drive on, the clothes you wear, the activities you're involved in, the programs you watch and on and on.

Now the Morse's were entrepreneurial enough, visionary enough, savvy enough, hard working enough to build a fabulous community like no other on earth that would also provide a need for other goods and services that they were enterprising enough to supply and for the goods and services sold by other businesses to whom they lease.

Therefore yes, the Morse's get a cut from many of your activities. They are among the many somebodies who get a cut from everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night. If they didn't get their particular cuts, another supplier would.

When you think of it this way... what's the problem?

Hey Phyllis don't forget the government's cut or you'll end up in the big house! Great post.

[Grannynance]

By reading some of your posts I take it that you are not a great fan of tv

[BOMBERO]

If you moved here and didn't know any of this ahead of time...Shame on you.

You people remind me of the guy who bought a beautiful home in Chatam.

After they moved here they found out there are train tracks very close to

their house. They blamed everyone but themselves. They left finally. Nobody

put a gun to their head to move here and nobody was holding a gun to their

head to stay. I don't think they were happy here. I give them credit for doing

what it took to be happier. Life is to short. You could get killed crossing

466 on a bike or die in a fire at a pizza joint with dirty restrooms.

I'm 62 and have been retired 18 years as of last Saturday. This is the place

for my wife and me. We couldn't be happier. :) BUT...It's not for everyone.:sad:

[swimdawg]

Hi Jan,
There's something about this argument I don't get. "Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night..." somebody gets a cut.

Make that many, many somebodies. The manufacturers, distributors and retailers, and their employees, lawyers, accountants, and scientists, inventors, investors, bankers, etc. all get a cut, whether for your mattress, your toothbrush, the toilet you flush, the road you drive on, the clothes you wear, the activities you're involved in, the programs you watch and on and on.

Now the Morse's were entrepreneurial enough, visionary enough, savvy enough, hard working enough to build a fabulous community like no other on earth that would also provide a need for other goods and services that they were enterprising enough to supply and for the goods and services sold by other businesses to whom they lease.

Therefore yes, the Morse's get a cut from many of your activities. They are among the many somebodies who get a cut from everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night. If they didn't get their particular cuts, another supplier would.

When you think of it this way... what's the problem?

Love this post! Great!!!!

And of course it gets the SWIMDAWG Post of the Day Award!

Oh yes! :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Larry Wilson]

I was referring to comparing this place to a Ford or Heinz. Ford or Heinz don't have bonds or amenity fees.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by janmcn
Think of it this way: Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night, from the food you eat to the water you use to flush your toilet, the Morse family gets a cut. It's like living in an old mill town where the mill owner owned everything and let the workers live there as long as they abide by all the rules. Just pray that the Morse family doesn't get perped walked by the IRS out of here to the big house where Bernie Madoff resides.


Everyone benefits when the county's tax base grows because of growth, while others are stagnant or shrinking.

The Villages: Engine for growth

October 13, 2010 | By Orlando Sentinel Staff

THE VILLAGES —Construction is nearly complete on a new Tire Choice store at the megaretirement community, which has escaped the worst ravages of the economic collapse.

The Orlando Sentinel reported last week that The Villages is credited with boosting Sumter County to No. 1 position among counties based on the percentage of its tax base connected to growth. Figures show that 6 percent of Sumter's tax base consisted of construction activity. To put that in perspective, consider that only 1 percent of local tax bases are tied to growth this year across Florida.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-13/news/os-lk-villages-construction-20101013_1_tax-base-engine-sumter-county

Florida counties' 2010 construction leaders

October 07, 2010

Construction leaders among Florida counties in 2010

Preliminary figures, based on construction as a percentage of total county tax base:

County | 2010 tax base | New construction | % of tax base
Sumter $6.2 billion $383 million 6.2%
Glades $590 million $13 million 2.2%
Gilchrist $632 million $13 million 2.0%
Orange $84.1 billion $1.7 billion 2.0%
Lafayette $219 million $4 million 1.9%
Polk $26.1 billion $481 million 1.8%
Duval $49.6 billion $858 million 1.7%
Hernando $8.2 billion $138 million 1.7%
Gadsden $1.4 billion $22 million 1.6%
Collier $61.8 billion $997 million 1.6%
SOURCE: Florida Department of Revenue"
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-10-07/business/os-villages-chart-20101007_1_tax-base-construction-counties

[BigLew]

I was referring to comparing this place to a Ford or Heinz. Ford or Heinz don't have bonds or amenity fees.

au contraire, I knew that it would continue to cost me in maintenance and fuel for as long as I owned it, and I did pay to add options (amenities) to my base car.

[Dirigo]

Hi Jan,
There's something about this argument I don't get. "Everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night..." somebody gets a cut.

Make that many, many somebodies. The manufacturers, distributors and retailers, and their employees, lawyers, accountants, and scientists, inventors, investors, bankers, etc. all get a cut, whether for your mattress, your toothbrush, the toilet you flush, the road you drive on, the clothes you wear, the activities you're involved in, the programs you watch and on and on.

Now the Morse's were entrepreneurial enough, visionary enough, savvy enough, hard working enough to build a fabulous community like no other on earth that would also provide a need for other goods and services that they were enterprising enough to supply and for the goods and services sold by other businesses to whom they lease.

Therefore yes, the Morse's get a cut from many of your activities. They are among the many somebodies who get a cut from everything you do from the time you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night. If they didn't get their particular cuts, another supplier would.

When you think of it this way... what's the problem?

I think what Morses get is more like a premium than a cut when it comes to retailers. I think they charge so much for rent to places like Sweet Bay and Publix that the supermarkets have to boost thier prices to make their margin.

Now I understand this and don't have a problem with it...one must expect to pay a premium for that "something extra"...in TV's case, golf cart accessability. On Thanksgiving I had to dash to SB to get a quart of whipping cream. I paid a premium for it over the cost I would have paid in Wildwood. But I dashed over the river and through the woods to SB in my golf cart. I like having a SB *inside* TV.

When I have more time I travel outside TV to get better prices on goods.

On public services, I'm sure the Morses get a cut, but that's OK too...I'm the CUSTOMER. They serve ME! They provide something I wanted and sought to obtain...and I have to expect to pay for it.

[billethkid]

it is becoming an urban legend...the story of businesses not able to make it in TV because of high rent. The rent is exactly the same today as it was any day any retailer signed their lease. Some businesses do not make revenues as projected and that has absolutely nothing to do with the rent. It has all to do with being competitive, good quality, good service and the right price.

Too many businesses come here with stars in their eyes and optomism in their projections. And when they are not doing as expected they bad mouth TV rent structure. The rent rates for commercial property here in TV is no more expensive than in any other comparable quality shoping/mall location.

I am not propping up TV developers in any way, however, I do think it is unfair to the many, MANY successful businesses here in TV that are doing just fine and growing with the growth of TV.

It ain't the rent!!!

btk

[missypie]

it is becoming an urban legend...the story of businesses not able to make it in TV because of high rent. The rent is exactly the same today as it was any day any retailer signed their lease. Some businesses do not make revenues as projected and that has absolutely nothing to do with the rent. It has all to do with being competitive, good quality, good service and the right price.

Too many businesses come here with stars in their eyes and optomism in their projections. And when they are not doing as expected they bad mouth TV rent structure. The rent rates for commercial property here in TV is no more expensive than in any other comparable quality shoping/mall location.

I am not propping up TV developers in any way, however, I do think it is unfair to the many, MANY successful businesses here in TV that are doing just fine and growing with the growth of TV.

It ain't the rent!!!

btk

You must know many small business people in TV. I think when people open up a business with their hard earned money they do have "Stars in their Eyes" as most people do when they open up a business putting all their savings into their "dream". I am guessing it's the ole American dream.

Opening up a business is so different than working for a company and then after many years of hard work getting a pension. Everyone has their own "dream" in life.

[eweissenbach]

You must know many small business people in TV. I think when people open up a business with their hard earned money they do have "Stars in their Eyes" as most people do when they open up a business putting all their savings into their "dream". I am guessing it's the ole American dream.

Opening up a business is so different than working for a company and then after many years of hard work getting a pension. Everyone has their own "dream" in life.

I haven't seen the statistics lately, but 10 years ago 80% of small businesses failed in the first year. Many people start business with a dream, but soon reality hits. One of my best friends and a former employee decided he wanted to start a resturaunt/bar with another friend of his - six months later the "friend" had fled the coop leaving him holding the bag as the resturaunt failed. He worked for 5 years to pay off the debts and finally, despite superhuman effort, he had to declare bankrupcy. Ir is most definitely not for everybody - you'd better be tough and financially prepared to weather the storm for the first couple years.

[Dirigo]

it is becoming an urban legend...the story of businesses not able to make it in TV because of high rent. The rent is exactly the same today as it was any day any retailer signed their lease. Some businesses do not make revenues as projected and that has absolutely nothing to do with the rent. It has all to do with being competitive, good quality, good service and the right price.

Too many businesses come here with stars in their eyes and optomism in their projections. And when they are not doing as expected they bad mouth TV rent structure. The rent rates for commercial property here in TV is no more expensive than in any other comparable quality shoping/mall location.

I am not propping up TV developers in any way, however, I do think it is unfair to the many, MANY successful businesses here in TV that are doing just fine and growing with the growth of TV.

It ain't the rent!!!

btk

Where do you get your information on area commercial lease rates?

[Taj44]

I think what Morses get is more like a premium than a cut when it comes to retailers. I think they charge so much for rent to places like Sweet Bay and Publix that the supermarkets have to boost thier prices to make their margin.

Now I understand this and don't have a problem with it...one must expect to pay a premium for that "something extra"...in TV's case, golf cart accessability. On Thanksgiving I had to dash to SB to get a quart of whipping cream. I paid a premium for it over the cost I would have paid in Wildwood. But I dashed over the river and through the woods to SB in my golf cart. I like having a SB *inside* TV.

When I have more time I travel outside TV to get better prices on goods.

On public services, I'm sure the Morses get a cut, but that's OK too...I'm the CUSTOMER. They serve ME! They provide something I wanted and sought to obtain...and I have to expect to pay for it.

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

[graciegirl]

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.



I have been told that the Krogers store near where we used to live charged more than the one in the inner city.

Now it could be those danged Republican developers and it could be the marketing tactic of the grocery store chains too.

[BOMBERO]

it could be the marketing tactic of the grocery store chains too.

Nahhh! must be the developer.

[BOMBERO]

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

I think it is great that we not only know more than the developer of the Villages, but we know more than the owners of big supermarket chains.
How did they ever manage without us? Watch out NASA - you're next!:coolsmiley:

[Bogie Shooter]

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

The exit door is always open.

[Dirigo]

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

Because this is America, Man...the price is "whatever the market will bear". And lots of folks here have a sufficient level of wealth that they don't sweat the grocery prices (I'm not one of them, but I don't clip coupons either, yet).

[Mikeod]

Aren't the flyers for SweetBay, Publix, and Winn-Dixie regional, including stores out of TV? When I shop at these chains in Jacksonville and St. Augustine I don't see noticeably lower prices across the board. If there is a premium for those stores on TV property, it can't be significant to their overall pricing.

I don't shop Food4Less or Aldi, so I can't compare them.

[Taj44]

Because this is America, Man...the price is "whatever the market will bear". And lots of folks here have a sufficient level of wealth that they don't sweat the grocery prices (I'm not one of them, but I don't clip coupons either, yet).

I agree with you up to a point - it is obviously what the market will bear, but that doesn't make it right. You have 80,000 retirees, an aging community where a certain percentage have trouble driving a car, and so take golf carts, etc., and they're taking advantage to make even more money than they normally would. I'm not blasting the stores, I guess I'm blasting Morse. His cut is what is behind all this. If he was just taking a small percentage it would be one thing, but from what everyone is saying, it is much more than that. I'm not in a situation where it affects me financially i.e. I'm not a coupon clipper either, but the principle of the thing bothers me, just saying. I don't like to be taken advantage of.

[BobKat1]

I think it is great that we not only know more than the developer of the Villages, but we know more than the owners of big supermarket chains.
How did they ever manage without us? Watch out NASA - you're next!:coolsmiley:

If NASA is next, can brain surgery be far behind??

[Pathel]

I agree with you up to a point - it is obviously what the market will bear, but that doesn't make it right. You have 80,000 retirees, an aging community where a certain percentage have trouble driving a car, and so take golf carts, etc., and they're taking advantage to make even more money than they normally would. I'm not blasting the stores, I guess I'm blasting Morse. His cut is what is behind all this. If he was just taking a small percentage it would be one thing, but from what everyone is saying, it is much more than that. I'm not in a situation where it affects me financially i.e. I'm not a coupon clipper either, but the principle of the thing bothers me, just saying. I don't like to be taken advantage of.

I respect what the Morse family has done to build such a wonderful community. There is no other place in the WORLD like it.

Maybe you need to learn something from them. I bet they were and still are coupon clippers. Wise consumers - wise people.

I have a few bucks and one of the reason I do is because I am a coupon clipper. All those pennies I saved from using coupons in my younger years, I invested.

It's the American way.

[Jim 9922]

If NASA is next, can brain surgery be far behind??

I'd settle for us fixing Congress!! :boxing2:

[ilovetv]

I'd settle for us fixing Congress!! :boxing2:

Fixing Congress? No, I think FLUSHING it would be more effective.

[Taj44]

I respect what the Morse family has done to build such a wonderful community. There is no other place in the WORLD like it.

Maybe you need to learn something from them. I bet they were and still are coupon clippers. Wise consumers - wise people.

I have a few bucks and one of the reason I do is because I am a coupon clipper. All those pennies I saved from using coupons in my younger years, I invested.

It's the American way.

I respect what this community is as well. However it would be just as good if not better, if the Morse's weren't so greedy. And any money you might save using coupons is offset by their cut on the groceries that they take from the stores, to put it in perspective. I personally think a guy with 3 jets, a yacht half the length of a football field, many multimillion dollar homes, etc., is probably not a coupon-clipper. Just my opinion.

[graciegirl]

I respect what this community is as well. However it would be just as good if not better, if the Morse's weren't so greedy. And any money you might save using coupons is offset by their cut on the groceries that they take from the stores, to put it in perspective. I personally think a guy with 3 jets, a yacht half the length of a football field, many multimillion dollar homes, etc., is probably not a coupon-clipper. Just my opinion.

I have met a few wealthy people and all of them continued to be careful with their money. It is part of the reason they became wealthy.

There is no shame in having possessions if you work hard to get them.

Being successful and having money doesn't make a person bad and amassing more doesn't mean they are greedy.

Only losers go into business to lose money.

[Taj44]

Obviously there is a line between greed and making a reasonable profit. You have to look at the definition of greed - which is excessive desire for wealth and possessions. Essentially, greed is when you extort, rip off or even steal to get more money.

A case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. A non-greedy businessman would have admitted that things needed to be fixed, that there was a problem, and gone ahead and done the right thing. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community and what he was morally and legally responsible for.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha. I'm sure a bunch of Morse cronies will be on shortly to disagree, which is their right, but there have been many, many posts decrying the business tactics of the Morse family, and it has been covered heavily in the media. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore it all, but it isn't going away. Only losers let themselves get taken advantage of.

[SgtJohn]

Obviously there is a line between greed and making a reasonable profit. You have to look at the definition of greed - which is excessive desire for wealth and possessions. Essentially, greed is when you extort, rip off or even steal to get more money.

A case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. A non-greedy businessman would have admitted that things needed to be fixed, that there was a problem, and gone ahead and done the right thing. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community and what he was morally and legally responsible for.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha. I'm sure a bunch of Morse cronies will be on shortly to disagree, which is their right, but there have been many, many posts decrying the business tactics of the Morse family, and it has been covered heavily in the media. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore it all, but it isn't going away. Only losers let themselves get taken advantage of.

Really ?

[Bogie Shooter]

Obviously there is a line between greed and making a reasonable profit. You have to look at the definition of greed - which is excessive desire for wealth and possessions. Essentially, greed is when you extort, rip off or even steal to get more money.

A case in point is the $40 million class action lawsuit filed against the Developer. Its shameful that things had to go that far, just so amenity services and facilities would be maintained. A non-greedy businessman would have admitted that things needed to be fixed, that there was a problem, and gone ahead and done the right thing. It seems to me that if Morse had really cared about the status of the facilities and services in The Villages, he would not have to be prodded by a lawsuit to do what is good for the community and what he was morally and legally responsible for.

The the whole IRS bond thing is another issue the Villagers have been saddled with, thanks to the "business acumen" of the Morses. It remains to be seen how it will be resolved, but certainly has the potential to cost us Villagers hundreds of millions of dollars. If that happened, I expect there would have to be another class action lawsuit to get the Morses to do what is right.

Do I love the Villages? Yes, I enjoy most aspects of it. Do I think the Morse's are taking advantage of the seniors here? You betcha. I'm sure a bunch of Morse cronies will be on shortly to disagree, which is their right, but there have been many, many posts decrying the business tactics of the Morse family, and it has been covered heavily in the media. You can bury your head in the sand and ignore it all, but it isn't going away. Only losers let themselves get taken advantage of.

Because you are a resident, do you put yourself in the losers category?

[graciegirl]

There are choices to be made and clearly people should, no MUST, examine a place carefully before they decide to buy and live there.

I think that I heard that the lawsuit that you speak of brought great personal profit to the villagers who brought it and correct me if I wrong.

I think that a lot of people do NOT know that this is a CDD form of government and that it is unlike any that any of us have been used to previously. The developers can run this place pretty much like a monarchy and the fact that their political leanings are Republican color many an aspect of the life here. Only Republican candidates and speakers are invited to speak. The paper has a Republican editorial slant. Fox news was broadcast from here. The Morse family are known to have contributed large sums to the Republican party. Maybe because of that a lot of people are drawn to move here because a lot of older people are Republicans. Now that is great unless you aren't and I think a lot of people come here and are really, REALLy disappointed about that aspect of The Villages.

The IRS issue, as it has been explained to me at least, does not mean that we villagers are liable if the IRS would rule against the Morses. Please correct me if I am wrong. The IRS issue has been discussed for the four years that I have read this forum. It is not that the Morses have withheld money from their taxes but how the bonds are interpreted...and they are NOT the bonds on the home for the infrastructure, for any new readers. If the IRS would rule against the Morses, it appears to me they have the dough to pay it, and had the opportunity to do that at the beginning but, if I remember it correctly, seemed to think that HOW a CDD was run was the issue, and please correct me if I am wrong.

It means a lot to me personally that people who would enjoy this place know the truth even if it is smarmy. I don't know the Morse family, maybe they are a bunch of losers. I see so much evidence around me of what is NOT greed. The green spaces left for us to enjoy looking at, maintained beautifully, they could have done far less and maintained them in an average way. I see the rec centers that are not blah but each individual one a feast for the eyes. I see that the pools are sparkling clean, always and that is hard to do... I see that they are good business people, BIG BUSINESS people, but I am not afraid of big business. Those kinds of success stories are as American as Apple pie.

I have had a lot of experiences in my life, but living here is the MOST pleasant place I have found and I am surprised and delighted that the last years of my life seem to be the best. I have to blame someone, so I will blame the Morses...who may not be as nice as I think.

And I am sure someone will disagree with me, but that is the reason we have this forum...so we can talk and listen and hopefully learn.

[Taj44]

There is a method I use to avoid being taken advantage of, and that is mainly trying to not utilize companies or businesses that would do so. Obviously, in The Villages, with Morse's hand in so many pots, it is difficult to completely avoid, but we try. Do you think I bought my furniture at overpriced Southern Lifestyles? No way, I saved a ton, and bought outside the Villages. I saved money on my mortgage by NOT getting it at Citizens bank. I paid off the bond to avoid paying the excessive interest rates. I purchase some groceries at Sam's and Walmarts . I do my best to support the POA, because I think they have our best interests at heart. If the conditions at the Villages golf courses are crummy, I just don't play golf here, I go outside The villages. If the IRS business escalates to the point where it is going to cost Villagers serious money, I will probably leave. That will be the last straw for me. Everyone has their own set of values and things that are important to them. The Morse's and their excessive greed do not represent my values and I have little respect for them. Sorry if that displeases some of you, but that is the way I see it, and there have been numerous threads on this issue in the past, with many others feeling the same way. We can go back and forth, and we all have our own opinions, which will not change, so I guess I'm done discussing this issue.

[SgtJohn]

Why wait. Home prices are at an all time low. Take advantage of it, you can save even more. You shouldn't stay if you feel there is only doom and gloom ahead.

[eweissenbach]

Why wait. Home prices are at an all time low. Take advantage of it, you can save even more. You shouldn't stay if you feel there is only doom and gloom ahead.

I guess I see no conflict in disliking or distrusting the developer and loving the development. I don't know any morse but I have read plenty of things about them that make me beleive they are not my kind of folks on the whole. At the same time I am very anxious to move to The Villages. As far as I know I won't have to befriend any of the morses.

[ilovetv]

A lot of the complaints about the Morses is plain old ordinary envy.

How is Envy more noble than Greed? Both are self destructive!

And regarding this.....

Originally Posted by Taj44
Obviously there is a line between greed and making a reasonable profit. You have to look at the definition of greed - which is excessive desire for wealth and possessions. ........

....Does this mean that because Bill Gates and Steve Jobs have made lightyears beyond "reasonable" profits, that they should have or should now quit inventing and make the products we WANT to buy (as we WANT to buy The Villages) that make our lives better and easier?? I don't think so.

I think a lot of these claims of "Greed" ought to be turned toward the dumb-a** politicians whose uncompromising "greed" for power is ruining this once-great nation.

[downeaster]

There are choices to be made and clearly people should, no MUST, examine a place carefully before they decide to buy and live there.

I think that I heard that the lawsuit that you speak of brought great personal profit to the villagers who brought it and correct me if I wrong.

I think that a lot of people do NOT know that this is a CDD form of government and that it is unlike any that any of us have been used to previously. The developers can run this place pretty much like a monarchy and the fact that their political leanings are Republican color many an aspect of the life here. Only Republican candidates and speakers are invited to speak. The paper has a Republican editorial slant. Fox news was broadcast from here. The Morse family are known to have contributed large sums to the Republican party. Maybe because of that a lot of people are drawn to move here because a lot of older people are Republicans. Now that is great unless you aren't and I think a lot of people come here and are really, REALLy disappointed about that aspect of The Villages.

The IRS issue, as it has been explained to me at least, does not mean that we villagers are liable if the IRS would rule against the Morses. Please correct me if I am wrong. The IRS issue has been discussed for the four years that I have read this forum. It is not that the Morses have withheld money from their taxes but how the bonds are interpreted...and they are NOT the bonds on the home for the infrastructure, for any new readers. If the IRS would rule against the Morses, it appears to me they have the dough to pay it, and had the opportunity to do that at the beginning but, if I remember it correctly, seemed to think that HOW a CDD was run was the issue, and please correct me if I am wrong.

It means a lot to me personally that people who would enjoy this place know the truth even if it is smarmy. I don't know the Morse family, maybe they are a bunch of losers. I see so much evidence around me of what is NOT greed. The green spaces left for us to enjoy looking at, maintained beautifully, they could have done far less and maintained them in an average way. I see the rec centers that are not blah but each individual one a feast for the eyes. I see that the pools are sparkling clean, always and that is hard to do... I see that they are good business people, BIG BUSINESS people, but I am not afraid of big business. Those kinds of success stories are as American as Apple pie.

I have had a lot of experiences in my life, but living here is the MOST pleasant place I have found and I am surprised and delighted that the last years of my life seem to be the best. I have to blame someone, so I will blame the Morses...who may not be as nice as I think.

And I am sure someone will disagree with me, but that is the reason we have this forum...so we can talk and listen and hopefully learn.

I agree with you, Gracie. However, there are those who will never be convinced. I wonder if the naysayers feel the same way about the multimillionaire sports and entertainment figures.

[Larry Wilson]

I guess I see no conflict in disliking or distrusting the developer and loving the development. I don't know any morse but I have read plenty of things about them that make me believe they are not my kind of folks on the whole. At the same time I am very anxious to move to The Villages. As far as I know I won't have to befriend any of the morses.

Thanks eweissenbach.
I think like you.
This thread was started to show how complex and the many many companies the family controls. If posters would just stay on topic about the Huge organization instead of telling posters to leave or other nasty comments directed at posters. The effect through the years is to drive posters off the board.

Talk to people here and almost all love the Villages but have issues with the developer. I've known this board has always been big cheerleaders but it is no reason to be nasty if you don't agree with someone.

[SunCity]

Why wait. Home prices are at an all time low. Take advantage of it, you can save even more. You shouldn't stay if you feel there is only doom and gloom ahead.

we have lots of places here in sun city that are for sale at really low prices but we don't have all the perks that you guys in the villages have. and if they moved here, they'd probably go after Del Webb and all the money his family has.

[Bogie Shooter]

we have lots of places here in sun city that are for sale at really low prices but we don't have all the perks that you guys in the villages have. and if they moved here, they'd probably go after Del Webb and all the money his family has.

Now that is funny. Good one SunCity.

[Larry Wilson]

Sun.
Huh, We have lots of places for sale too.?? We also have people who have left for the Del Ws around here.
The financial structure is very different in Del Ws than in here. We are a private family owned development with closed books. The Del near here has had no lawsuits or IRS investigations that I know of... Once built out is complete, the residents own and control their development with open books. As a mattter of fact, I think the Del nearest here is very well off with about a million in the bank.
But the point is almost everyone likes living here but separates living here from the behavior of the 3rd generation of the developer. So yes, this is an amazing place and this thread is about the huge organization of the Morse family.

[SunCity]

Sun.
Huh, We have lots of places for sale too.?? We also have people who have left for the Del Ws around here.
The financial structure is very different in Del Ws than in here. We are a private family owned development with closed books. The Del near here has had no lawsuits or IRS investigations that I know of... Once built out is complete, the residents own and control their development with open books. As a mattter of fact, I think the Del nearest here is very well off with about a million in the bank.
But the point is almost everyone likes living here but separates living here from the behavior of the 3rd generation of the developer. So yes, this is an amazing place and this thread is about the huge organization of the Morse family.

we have what they call PORA here in sun city. look it up online.

the problem here is that everything was really good in the beginning. but now things have gone down. things are not kept up like in the villages. i'm not complaining. it's nice here. Del Webb has done a good job but the Morse family has done a spectacular job developing the villages and keeping it up-even improving the quality of life for you people as time goes on. here that is not the case.

our houses are for sale for really cheap because of the economy. from what i see online, your houses that are for sale in the villages have not decreased in value like ours have. people can't sell their houses here and are losing a lot of money.

i admire both the Del Webb family and the Morse family for what they have done. but i think you people in the villages are lucky to have such good developers.

[Larry Wilson]

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

[Bogie Shooter]

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

Isn't Savannah nice? I think those greedy Morse's built it.

[2BNTV]

Sun.
Huh, We have lots of places for sale too.?? We also have people who have left for the Del Ws around here.
The financial structure is very different in Del Ws than in here. We are a private family owned development with closed books. The Del near here has had no lawsuits or IRS investigations that I know of... Once built out is complete, the residents own and control their development with open books. As a mattter of fact, I think the Del nearest here is very well off with about a million in the bank.
But the point is almost everyone likes living here but separates living here from the behavior of the 3rd generation of the developer. So yes, this is an amazing place and this thread is about the huge organization of the Morse family.

we have what they call PORA here in sun city. look it up online.

the problem here is that everything was really good in the beginning. but now things have gone down. things are not kept up like in the villages. i'm not complaining. it's nice here. Del Webb has done a good job but the Morse family has done a spectacular job developing the villages and keeping it up-even improving the quality of life for you people as time goes on. here that is not the case.

our houses are for sale for really cheap because of the economy. from what i see online, your houses that are for sale in the villages have not decreased in value like ours have. people can't sell their houses here and are losing a lot of money.

i admire both the Del Webb family and the Morse family for what they have done. but i think you people in the villages are lucky to have such good developers.

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

I love it when people can agree to disagree respectfully. :)

[janmcn]

Isn't Savannah nice? I think those greedy Morse's built it.

You are correct. If you've been here anytime at all, you know the Morse's built it prior to 2000 for five million dollars and turned around in 2003 and sold it to the residents for 25 million dollars. There was no negotiating on the price. Quite an investment.

[graciegirl]

You are correct. If you've been here anytime at all, you know the Morse's built it prior to 2000 for five million dollars and turned around in 2003 and sold it to the residents for 25 million dollars. There was no negotiating on the price. Quite an investment.

Janmcn..I have to guess by this post and others that you are negative toward the Morses. Where did you hear this information? As far as I know it is a rec center just like all other rec centers and not "sold back" to anyone. HOW did the residents buy it back????

My concern is this to anyone reading my posts. I wish anyone who legitimately wants to look into retiring here could do so. Some people are a little timid about things. When I read posts that are so inflamatory, my heart aches because I know they will turn people away. Do I work for the Morses? NO. Do I get anything out of it for myself? NO. It just burns me up that people get on here and say things that aren't true and turn someone nice away who could be enjoying it as much as we do.

AND I have to wonder what is the REAL motivation for these negative posts.

I am not having a good day and I feel that I might soon bite.

[janmcn]

Too many links to list. Just google IRS vs The Villages and read them all.

[eweissenbach]

Janmcn..I have to guess by this post and others that you are negative toward the Morses. Where did you hear this information? As far as I know it is a rec center just like all other rec centers and not "sold back" to anyone. HOW did the residents buy it back????

My concern is this to anyone reading my posts. I wish anyone who legitimately wants to look into retiring here could do so. Some people are a little timid about things. When I read posts that are so inflamatory, my heart aches because I know they will turn people away. Do I work for the Morses? NO. Do I get anything out of it for myself? NO. It just burns me up that people get on here and say things that aren't true and turn someone nice away who could be enjoying it as much as we do.

AND I have to wonder what is the REAL motivation for these negative posts.

I am not having a good day and I feel that I might soon bite.

Gracie I haven't posted anything really negative about the morse family, but most that I have read generally make the point that they love TV, or at least the majority of it. As I wrote earlier seperating the developer from the development is the essense of the discussion. Nothing I have seen about the developers, including the IRS issue, gives me any pause to buying in TV. I have, however, read enough to be relatively certain that the morse family, of my generation at least, would not be likely the kind of folks I would click with on a personal level. It is not envy that drives me to this conclusion as I would love to have a few beers or play golf with Warren Buffett.

[Bogie Shooter]

Janmcn..I have to guess by this post and others that you are negative toward the Morses. Where did you hear this information? As far as I know it is a rec center just like all other rec centers and not "sold back" to anyone. HOW did the residents buy it back????

My concern is this to anyone reading my posts. I wish anyone who legitimately wants to look into retiring here could do so. Some people are a little timid about things. When I read posts that are so inflamatory, my heart aches because I know they will turn people away. Do I work for the Morses? NO. Do I get anything out of it for myself? NO. It just burns me up that people get on here and say things that aren't true and turn someone nice away who could be enjoying it as much as we do.

AND I have to wonder what is the REAL motivation for these negative posts.

I am not having a good day and I feel that I might soon bite.

Gracie, you know I respect your opinion on about anything.....but you have been misinformed or not informed regarding the sale.

But, what is being said about the Savannah is true. It was sold for many more $$ than what it cost. This concept has been explained many times on this forum and other places. In a nut shell the asset is valued on its current value plus future benefit. We all can argue till the cows come home (usually late) but that is what happened right or wrong.

[graciegirl]

Thank you Bogie.

I always trust your judgement.

I am sorry Janmcn and also Weissenbach.

I stand corrected.

[eweissenbach]

Thank you Bogie.

I always trust your judgement.

I am sorry Janmcn and also Weissenbach.

I stand corrected.

No apology necessary to me. I think you are terrific. I did not intend to take you to task, but just to point out another view.

[janmcn]

Thank you Bogie.

I always trust your judgement.

I am sorry Janmcn and also Weissenbach.

I stand corrected.

Apology accepted. Some people (I won't say many or most) who have lived here for decades are a little cynical concerning the Morses. I hope you never lose your enthusiasm for TV. I hope I'm around to hear what you have to say in 2018.

[The Village Girl]

Sun,
Thanks for the very respectful answer. I need to be going so this is just a short answer. Many many people have lost a great deal of money on homes in here. The people who are not happy in here get bashed to death on their first post on this board so you will never hear it on here.
But I agree this is a great place, but we are comparing apples and oranges. Many of the Dell Webbs are built out and getting old. We may someday too.
Plus we are 86,000.
I had a ton of respect for Harold, less for Gary, and even less for Mark. I know the family very well and have had business dealings with them. However, you are entitled to your opinion. All opinions should be respected whether you agree or not.
Now I really must get going. We are having a big Christmas party tonight at Savannah and I should be there.
Thanks again for your very polite post.

So tell me, Larry............exactly what kinds of business dealings have you had with the Morse family, if you don't mind my asking? I'm curious - I've never connected with anyone who's had direct dealings with members of the Morse family.

[Bogie Shooter]

Apology accepted. Some people (I won't say many or most) who have lived here for decades are a little cynical concerning the Morses. I hope you never lose your enthusiasm for TV. I hope I'm around to hear what you have to say in 2018.

What is special about 2018?

[Bill-n-Brillo]

2018 is the purported conclusion of all the construction. Perhaps that's the point the poster was inferring.

Bill :)

[Indy-Guy]

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

[ilovetv]

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

Well said!

[jblum315]

I just picture the Morse family, especially the older ones, looking around and thinking "Wow, look what we did here!!"

[graciegirl]

I just picture the Morse family, especially the older ones, looking around and thinking "Wow, look what we did here!!"

Jblum. It isn't just your art work that I love!!!!!

[Pathel]

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

:agree:

[2BNTV]

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

I just picture the Morse family, especially the older ones, looking around and thinking "Wow, look what we did here!!"

Two excellent points!!!!!

I also like the OP that claimed they lived in a 55 plus community where the developers were not as good as the Morse family with the upkeep. hence, their property value had diminished.

Just sayin........

[eweissenbach]

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

You are right, of course, but I think this misses the point. I have many friends who own, or owned, successful businesses or were officers of large companies, and most of them are good, hororable people in my mind. Two of my children own a very successful business with over 100 employees, and they too are good, honorable people. My guess is that most people who are successful are exemplary individuals. That does not mean that ALL people who run successful, profitable enterprises are above reproach. It seems to me that the people that have decided they don't like the developers have come to that conclusion based on what they have read about their actions, and the lawsuits they have been entwined in, and not on the mere fact of their success or their wealth. It seems that they are rebuffed on the basis that they are jealous, which some may be, but it seems to me that most have legitimate concerns about the ethics of the developers. Again, most don't seem to be attacking the development or the lifestyle that many want to vigerously defend, and it seems to me to be silly to suggest, as some have done, that they leave.

[SunCity]

Two excellent points!!!!!

I also like the OP that claimed they lived in a 55 plus community where the developers were not as good as the Morse family with the upkeep. hence, their property value had diminished.

Just sayin........

yes, i said that. here we have over 600 homes that are for sale for less than $100,000. it's a nice Del Webb community but things haven't been kept up. we have nice pools and rec centers but nothing like you people in the villages have. our population here is around 47,000 and with all these homes decreasing in value, it's not good. i really don't think some of you people in the villages realize how good you have it.

[Happinow]

Suncity, before deciding to move to TV, I did some homework on the Del Web properties. What I read was not good, and I read a lot! It's really a shame that they haven't kept up the property. Perhaps the economy played a part or they are just bad business people. What ever the reason, you all are paying the price. I have done a tremendous amount of research on The Villages and knew that it was the place for my husband and I after speaking to people who live there, and people who want to live there. Plus, we have family who lives there. I have found that in my research in finding a place to retire, there is no place like TV! We are not current residence but will be soon. I think, for the most part, those who have chosen to live in The Villages know what a gem we have! Most everything you read on these forums are so positive and people think they have died and gone to heaven! In my opinion, 80,000 people can't be wrong. So when you say you don't think that people know how good they have it.....yes they do! Good luck to you.

[Mikeod]

I look around and I can see the developer has a hand in many aspects of TV beyond the sale of homes. It doesn't bother me because I think it shows an intent to stick around after build-out. Once all the new homes are built and sold, the income will come from resales (I believe the sales offices will remain for resales.), rent from the merchants in the squares and beyond, the championship golf courses, and from all those other "things" that the family is involved in. Hopefully, that will be enough to keep them interested in maintaining the quality of this place.

I think what bothers some people is the history of selling properties to the community as we transition from developer controlled to resident controlled. The transfer of facilities north of 466 was done at a premium price out of line with appraisals of the properties. The bonds being investigate by the IRS seem to also be a windfall for the developer. These things create a cloud of doubt/suspicion that, for some people, diminishes their enjoyment of the lifestyle. That leads to a hope, but not a confidence, that buying here was the best choice.

For me, having looked at places on the left coast to retire, I think I made the right decision moving here. Time will tell.

[2BNTV]

yes, i said that. here we have over 600 homes that are for sale for less than $100,000. it's a nice Del Webb community but things haven't been kept up. we have nice pools and rec centers but nothing like you people in the villages have. our population here is around 47,000 and with all these homes decreasing in value, it's not good. i really don't think some of you people in the villages realize how good you have it.

Sorry, I was in a time crunch, so for the sake of getting my thoughts down quickly, I didn't refer to you directly. With that being said, your point of view is excellent as it brings perspective to the TV developer as opposed to other communities.

I am still a wannabe but I will move there ASAP when my condo sells.

[swimdawg]

Would someone let me know how much money you have to have before they label you as GREEDY?

It seems to me the answer is when people make more money than the person who is calling someone greedy has.

If the Morse family about 20% into this project had gone belly-up we would not be having this conversation or even talkofthevillages and 80% of us would not be living here also people around here would be saying the Morse family should have ran their business better. I am very thankful that they were successful. I am sure that there were times when the Morse family did not think that this thing was going to fly but it did.

Profit is only a dirty word when the person you are doing business with is getting it. But when you are getting it it is a great thing.

I have a feeling that most of us worked for very profitable companies while we were working and that is what got us here.

You won the SWIMDAWG Post of the Day Award, Indy-Guy. Great post!

[Pturner]

Why should we have to pay higher prices at grocery stores here just because they happen to be golf cart accessible? They have a terrific market here - 80,000 + retired people guarantees a pretty good profit even if they keep their prices what they should be. And I do expect if Morse wasn't charging premium rents, and taking a cut of profits, our prices at the local stores would be lower.

Taj, are you considering the fact that "location, location, location" always drives rent prices? Again, that's because prices are generally determined by what the market will bear. Just look at TV homeowners who rent their homes. They can and do charge a lot more than rent would go for in the areas just outside of TV. They can and do charge quite a bit more for rent in Jan-March than in June-Aug., because that's what the market will bear.

I'm not saying that the Morse organization has never done anything to make me wince. However, the fact that they charge premium commercial rent for premium commercial space makes all the sense in the world to me.

[Pturner]

Referring to a comment that wealth doesn't equate to greed, Ewissenbach wrote:

You are right, of course, but I think this misses the point. I have many friends who own, or owned, successful businesses or were officers of large companies, and most of them are good, hororable people in my mind. Two of my children own a very successful business with over 100 employees, and they too are good, honorable people. My guess is that most people who are successful are exemplary individuals. That does not mean that ALL people who run successful, profitable enterprises are above reproach. It seems to me that the people that have decided they don't like the developers have come to that conclusion based on what they have read about their actions, and the lawsuits they have been entwined in, and not on the mere fact of their success or their wealth. It seems that they are rebuffed on the basis that they are jealous, which some may be, but it seems to me that most have legitimate concerns about the ethics of the developers. Again, most don't seem to be attacking the development or the lifestyle that many want to vigerously defend, and it seems to me to be silly to suggest, as some have done, that they leave.

I agree fully. We never see other people's viewpoints as sympathetically as we see our own. Many (though not all) concerns expressed about the Morse organization's ethics are based on issues that raise legitimate questions. Questioning the motives of posters who raises these concerns doesn't address the questions.

To Ed's point, most of the posters who have said they thought the Morse's were greedy gave explanations for their perspective that have nothing to do with how much money the Morse's have. None of us is a mind reader. When we attempt to ascribe motives to people with whom we disagree, rather than stating how we see the issue(s) they raise differently, we don't shed more light on the subject, just more heat.

We all learn more with our ears and minds open. Dismissing a concern without addressing it directly, by just ascribing jealousy or any other motive, can give the impression of a mind not open to dissenting points of view.

...I think what bothers some people is the history of selling properties to the community as we transition from developer controlled to resident controlled. The transfer of facilities north of 466 was done at a premium price out of line with appraisals of the properties. The bonds being investigate by the IRS seem to also be a windfall for the developer. These things create a cloud of doubt/suspicion that, for some people, diminishes their enjoyment of the lifestyle. That leads to a hope, but not a confidence, that buying here was the best choice.

For me, having looked at places on the left coast to retire, I think I made the right decision moving here. Time will tell.

Excellent example of listening, to the point of understanding, another person's perspective even when we disagree.

:bigbow: