The Constitution and Religion

[Guest]

Unrelated to the questions of this thread I would like to just comment on this never ending diatribe of yours. Albeit a very serious problem the church has had with factions of clergy, a point has to be made here.

A Catholic can never say anything positive about his faith on this thread without you regurgitating your obsession with the problem of pedophile priests.

Should Catholicism be outlawed, or what? What is the point of bringing this up every time a subject having something to do with the Catholic religion is raised?

Do you think the Catholics on this forum are part of the problem the church has had with pedophile priests?

Can we never have a discussion on this forum about a question about Catholic matters without you raising your hand (ooo, ooo, ooo), and asking about the problems the church has had with this?

Maybe I'm just sensitive, or maybe it's because I went to 12 years of parochial schooling where I had contact with priests almost every day of that time which were always positive experiences. The priests I'd encountered during that time being thoughtful teachers, advisors and mentors.

It's as I've always said here - the double standard.

Now did you read where I said I could understand some of the objection? It was the word "confusion" that I had trouble with.

Now, sit down before you fall down when I tell you this.

I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic schools in NY and Boston. I was an altar boy for a while as well. My first marriage was in the Catholic Church.

*Every* *single* *priest* I *ever* met was the epitome of what I would expect of a positive view of the Catholic Church. I *never* had a clue about the abuses until the scandals broke.

I was in disbelief. I had priests who were intelligent, funny, thoughtful.. I'm telling you I can't think of enough good things to say about them.

My 'problem' is with the Generals, not the ground troops. My problem is with the Pope and sleazeballs like ironically named Cardinal Law of Boston. My problem is with those who enabled *for decades* this kind of abuse. My problem is with the Church's response when this all first broke. When the Cardinal's office said it never happened - and if it did the victims should shut up because they're giving the Church a bad name - and even if they DID have problems, they should see *A PRIEST* for counseling!

So now what happens? Yeah, this tarnishes, to some degree, the good memories I had. But we keep hearing more and more stories. And how does the Church solve the problem? By selling off assets at the local level that end up closing churches and protecting assets owned by the heirarchy. So the parishoners suffer and the higher-ups are protected (the land deals in Southern California are a testament to that).

In short. Priests go rogue. They're protected by their bosses. When found out, the bosses protect each other and make the parishoners pay the compensation.

So, yeah, it was them claiming that their people would be 'confused' by the new regs. Sounds to me like they had a full understanding of what was coming. Again, I can understand the objection (although 98% of sexually active Catholics use artificial birth control, so there's a statment of sorts right there) on principal - but to claim "confusion"?

[Guest]

It's as I've always said here - the double standard.

Now did you read where I said I could understand some of the objection? It was the word "confusion" that I had trouble with.

Now, sit down before you fall down when I tell you this.

I was raised Catholic. I went to Catholic schools in NY and Boston. I was an altar boy for a while as well. My first marriage was in the Catholic Church.

*Every* *single* *priest* I *ever* met was the epitome of what I would expect of a positive view of the Catholic Church. I *never* had a clue about the abuses until the scandals broke.

I was in disbelief. I had priests who were intelligent, funny, thoughtful.. I'm telling you I can't think of enough good things to say about them.

My 'problem' is with the Generals, not the ground troops. My problem is with the Pope and sleazeballs like ironically named Cardinal Law of Boston. My problem is with those who enabled *for decades* this kind of abuse. My problem is with the Church's response when this all first broke. When the Cardinal's office said it never happened - and if it did the victims should shut up because they're giving the Church a bad name - and even if they DID have problems, they should see *A PRIEST* for counseling!

So now what happens? Yeah, this tarnishes, to some degree, the good memories I had. But we keep hearing more and more stories. And how does the Church solve the problem? By selling off assets at the local level that end up closing churches and protecting assets owned by the heirarchy. So the parishoners suffer and the higher-ups are protected (the land deals in Southern California are a testament to that).

In short. Priests go rogue. They're protected by their bosses. When found out, the bosses protect each other and make the parishoners pay the compensation.

So, yeah, it was them claiming that their people would be 'confused' by the new regs. Sounds to me like they had a full understanding of what was coming. Again, I can understand the objection (although 98% of sexually active Catholics use artificial birth control, so there's a statment of sorts right there) on principal - but to claim "confusion"?

I don't disagree with anything your said. OK, I get it. Now, can you answer the question I asked because you ignored it again.

Can we ever have a discussion about religious or social matters concerning the subject of, or an aspect of, Catholicism where you don't feel it your obligation to drag out it's problem with pedophile priests again?

[Guest]

Just observing. To me it looks like djplong is saying the Church doesn't have a leg to stand on in the moral indignation department, because it continues to be in denial about all the repugnant clergy like Cardinal Law....who would still be in place if Bill O'Reilly had not laid bare this heinous mess in Prime Time TV and spoke for the decent priests in the archdiocese who had no other voice.

Parishioners had to stomach watching 80-90 of their beautiful churches, built with loving immigrant hands, sold off to the highest bidder for condominiums etc. They had to stomach seeing Law not defrocked, but given a nice, quiet parish church in Rome. Worse yet, this Spawn of Satan was allowed to set foot into the Sistine Chapel and participate in the conclave that chose the new pope.

As Dukakis so aptly said it between yawns, "The fish rots from the head down."

On the other hand, it seems to me that Richie is talking about the rottenness of the current Democrat administration and legislature in over-riding the constitutional right to free exercise of religion, by mandating that Catholic hospitals provide contraceptive and other coverages that are against the central tenets of the church.

Hope I'm seeing this right.

[Guest]

I don't disagree with anything your said. OK, I get it. Now, can you answer the question I asked because you ignored it again.

Can we ever have a discussion about religious or social matters concerning the subject of, or an aspect of, Catholicism where you don't feel it your obligation to drag out it's problem with pedophile priests again?

Not when it's the Catholic heirarchy doing the complaining. Until the people who protected and facilitated the pedophile priests are put in jail, I will not forget.

If someone brings up commentary from a Catholic diocese or from the Vatican then their record is completely on-topic.

[Guest]

On the other hand, it seems to me that Richie is talking about the rottenness of the current Democrat administration and legislature in over-riding the constitutional right to free exercise of religion, by mandating that Catholic hospitals provide contraceptive and other coverages that are against the central tenets of the church.

Hope I'm seeing this right.

Richie might not believe that I'm probably with him on today's Supreme Court ruling. It turned my stomach to read that the Obama administration and the rest of the Democrats WERE fully behind the idea of using GPS devices on people's cars without a warrant.

But, yes, you see it right. The Catholic Church could, in time, reclaim a lot of moral high ground if they didn't have the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

[Guest]

Katz said,
"My dear lady family physician is from Pakistan."

My question to Katz would be twofold: Is the family physician a Christian or a Muslim? If she is a Muslim, is it her practice to lie to you, deceive you, and pretend to be your friend? Does she read the Koran which tells her that her job is to kill you?

But, I am sure she is a Christian, knowing your feelings about Muslims.

[Guest]

Katz said,
"My dear lady family physician is from Pakistan."

My question to Katz would be twofold: Is the family physician a Christian or a Muslim? If she is a Muslim, is it her practice to lie to you, deceive you, and pretend to be your friend? Does she read the Koran which tells her that her job is to kill you?

But, I am sure she is a Christian, knowing your feelings about Muslims.

She is a Muslim. She has very good physician who has given me great medical care. We actually talk about God and praying to God. She made a trip to Pakistan after a devastating earthquake, to offer charitable medical care and we(her friends) helped collect and pack medical supplies for her to take with her. I have seen her give free care to many of her patients that are unable to afford it. That is all that I know at this point in our relationship.
She does read the Koran, and it does teach her to kill infidels who are unwilling to submit/convert. I talk with her about Ramadan and the effect it has on her spiritual life and growth. I am then afforded the opportunity to tell her what my faith tells me if and when she asks. If she has lied to me, I am unaware of it, but I discern things as much as possible. I see the fruit of compassion and kindness and self sacrifice in her life. Therefore, being a Christian, I try to follow the teachings of the book that I read-The Word of GOD. It tells me to love others as HE as loved me. It tells me to love JUSTICE and MERCY and to walk HUMBLY with GOD. It also shows me the life of God in the Flesh, Jesus. He spent time with the saved and the sinners. He let His lght shine with prostitutes, drunkards and thieves, and has called me to let His light shine through my life, too, that all may come to know the Love of God. His Word also tells me to fear no man, to not fear those who can take away my body...
This box is far too small for me to explain to you the love that He has given me for this Muslim woman. Nor how I am sure that I hear His voice to be her friend, in spite of those who question me as you are now doing. Believe me, there are many, even close family members. But I am back to the fact that this box is far too small to explain the obedience I feel I want to give back to the God who has poured out the most incredible LOVE, FORGIVENESS, AND MERCY on this SINFUL creature called KatzPajamas.

[Guest]

She is a Muslim. She has very good physician who has given me great medical care. We actually talk about God and praying to God. She made a trip to Pakistan after a devastating earthquake, to offer charitable medical care and we(her friends) helped collect and pack medical supplies for her to take with her. I have seen her give free care to many of her patients that are unable to afford it. That is all that I know at this point in our relationship.
She does read the Koran, and it does teach her to kill infidels who are unwilling to submit/convert. I talk with her about Ramadan and the effect it has on her spiritual life and growth. I am then afforded the opportunity to tell her what my faith tells me if and when she asks. If she has lied to me, I am unaware of it, but I discern things as much as possible. I see the fruit of compassion and kindness and self sacrifice in her life. Therefore, being a Christian, I try to follow the teachings of the book that I read-The Word of GOD. It tells me to love others as HE as loved me. It tells me to love JUSTICE and MERCY and to walk HUMBLY with GOD. It also shows me the life of God in the Flesh, Jesus. He spent time with the saved and the sinners. He let His lght shine with prostitutes, drunkards and thieves, and has called me to let His light shine through my life, too, that all may come to know the Love of God. His Word also tells me to fear no man, to not fear those who can take away my body...
This box is far too small for me to explain to you the love that He has given me for this Muslim woman. Nor how I am sure that I hear His voice to be her friend, in spite of those who question me as you are now doing. Believe me, there are many, even close family members. But I am back to the fact that this box is far too small to explain the obedience I feel I want to give back to the God who has poured out the most incredible LOVE, FORGIVENESS, AND MERCY on this SINFUL creature called KatzPajamas.

Why hasn't she murdered you yet in the name of Allah? :ohdear:

[Guest]

Why hasn't she murdered you yet in the name of Allah? :ohdear:


Hmmm...apparently GOD has not allowed her to...

[Guest]

I would think that you would be afraid of this devout Muslim doctor lieing to you about your health and since her religion tells her to murder you, you would be changing doctors to a Christian one.

[Guest]

I would think that you would be afraid of this devout Muslim doctor lieing to you about your health and since her religion tells her to murder you, you would be changing doctors to a Christian one.

Nah, she knows what I do for a living, that I am surrounded by physicians at work and play, and that I'm not stupid. I have never just blindly followed ANY doctors orders. In this day of the internet information highway, we should all be checking out what the facts are. By the way, most of her patients are doctors, nurses, and the likes of me!
I guess you are as confused about this as I am confused about you and Richielion having a cold Yuenglings together on a regular basis!

[Guest]

RichieLion is not under orders from the Pope to murder me (so far as I know). Your doctor (according to you) is under orders from the Koran to murder you.

[Guest]

If you are a Christian, you also are under orders to shine His Light in the darkness wherever you find it.

[Guest]

Would a good Christian be spreading the talk of Muslims being under order of the Koran to convert or kill Christians? Or posting columns from hate organizations like English Defence League?

I am through speaking with you on your hate filled topic. Please do not respond.

[Guest]

Would a good Christian be spreading the talk of Muslims being under order of the Koran to convert or kill Christians? Or posting columns from hate organizations like English Defence League?

I am through speaking with you on your hate filled topic. Please do not respond.

Buggyone ~ Or Should I call you something like a BLACK WIDOW SPIDER?
You are the one who resurrected this old thread and asked me questions. I was kind enough to answer by telling you about the GOD of all MERCY, FORGIVENESS AND LOVE. How is that hate filled?
As a Christian, I follow a GOD of TRUTH...Just because He is also a GOD of LOVE, doesn't mean I should stick my head in the sand.
The article you refer to was sent to me by "The Silent Majority". The heading at the top of the page states British Defence League-Not English Defense League.
Put down the pipe dude.

[Guest]

Muslim = BAD
Christian = GOOD

Buggyone = I hope you understand where I stand on this issue.

[Guest]

buggyone, do you know the defination of a moderate muslim?

That is the one who just ran out of ammunition.

[Guest]

I was talking of the hypocricy of someone who posts hate sites about Muslims, spouts hatred about Muslims and how they are committed to killing all "infidels" who do not convert to their religion and who are taught to lie and deceive and make false friendships with "infidels" - and then saying they have a wonderful doctor who is Muslim.

I have nothing against your personal views of Muslims, Villager II and Figmo, since you have not been hypocritical in your views.

[Guest]

Buggyone- Are you saying that just I should be scared of my doctor? Of Muslims?

[Guest]

RichieLion is not under orders from the Pope to murder me (so far as I know). Your doctor (according to you) is under orders from the Koran to murder you.

As a Christian I'm only supposed to help guide you, if I can, further along the path to righteousness and salvation.

You keep voting for Democrats though, so I'm still failing.

But, I'll keep trying:)

[Guest]

RichieLion, I told you at our last meeting at the "watering hole" I was voting for Romney in the Florida primary. I actually am thinking of changing that to Ron Paul so it will be a vote less for Romney - but still cancel out your vote!:coolsmiley:

[Guest]

RichieLion, I told you at our last meeting at the "watering hole" I was voting for Romney in the Florida primary. I actually am thinking of changing that to Ron Paul so it will be a vote less for Romney - but still cancel out your vote!:coolsmiley:

You can't cancel out my vote. You can only waste yours.