Lightning Arresters / Rods

[B. Johnson]

Will be moving into a new home in TV in about 2 weeks; I have heard many times that this part of Florida is highly succeptable to building lightning strikes, etc.. I will have SECO install a surge protector but feel it might be worth it to have lightning arresters / rods installed as well. Problem is don't know who to contact to have this work done; anyone have any ideas or opinions; would be much appreciated!

[graciegirl]

Now this was recently explained to us by our neighbor who owned a large electrical company back North.

He says that many are made of aluminum and he hired an electrician to install copper roof conductors and connected them to lines running into the ground.

As much as we respect our new friend and his expert opinion, the POA Newsletter has a frequent column that I believe disputes the belief that lightning rods help the situation.

Someone jump in here. Maybe even the someone who writes that column. He has done so before and responded to questions like this here on this forum.

We are still undecided.

[B. Johnson]

Thanks Gracie,
I know these type of rods have been used for hundreds of years by folks living in rural areas; I also saw a post some time ago noting that TV developers install such devices on smaller buildings belonging to them sooooooooo just thought it is better to be safe than sorry. I really don't have any expert opinions on the subject so your response is appreciated.

[Bogie Shooter]

Will be moving into a new home in TV in about 2 weeks; I have heard many times that this part of Florida is highly succeptable to building lightning strikes, etc.. I will have SECO install a surge protector but feel it might be worth it to have lightning arresters / rods installed as well. Problem is don't know who to contact to have this work done; anyone have any ideas or opinions; would be much appreciated!

Here is the POA site, look for there stored bulletins.
http://www.poa4us.org/

[billybye]

the best place for a lightning arrestor in on your neighbor's house

[Jim Straz]

the best place for a lightning arrestor in on your neighbor's house
I agree as lighting always strikes the highest object in it's path.

[getdul981]

If you will notice, all the buildings that belong to The Villages orginization have lightning rods. All the buildings in Disney World have them. I know these people would not put them up just for looks, don't you? What's amazing to me is that you will not get a discount on your homeowners insurance if you have them installed. I think it would be nice to have them, but just can't justify the expense. I suppose if we get hit by lightning, I will wish I had.

[jane032657]

For those of you who have dogs how do you help them get adjusted to lightening? We do not have much lightning here in the pacific NW, but when we do, my little Irish Setter is a shaking sack of bones. I am wondering what I will do to get the English and Irish Setters to adjust? How did others deal with this?

[English Ivy]

For those of you who have dogs how do you help them get adjusted to lightening? We do not have much lightning here in the pacific NW, but when we do, my little Irish Setter is a shaking sack of bones. I am wondering what I will do to get the English and Irish Setters to adjust? How did others deal with this?

Check out the "Thunder Shirt". Got one for my dog and it seems to help. She's much calmer during storms. Here's the website: http://www.thundershirt.com/lpc2/

[westom]

Now this was recently explained to us by our neighbor who owned a large electrical company back North. A FL home was struck repeatedly on one exterior wall. So lightning rods were installed. Lightning again struck that same wall.

Someone whose knowledge is from observation will use the same logic that proved spontaneous reproduction. Then assume lightning rods are useless. Instead, this problem was solved by first learning the science and what was installed.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. That cloud must connect to earthborne charges maybe miles away. A best electrical path was miles down to that bathroom wall, through pipes that connected to deeper and more conductive soils, then miles to distant charges.

Lightning rods were only connected to eight foot ground rods in sand - a poorer conductor. Lightning was connecting via something lower (that bathroom wall) that was a better electrical connection.

Too many only see a lightning rod. Will even argue 'blunt' verse 'pointed'. And completely forget what defines all protection. Again, those who make conclusions only from observation are the same junk scientists who 'knew' about spontaneous reproduction. Protection is defined by where energy dissipates. And the connection path.

Protection of structures is about connecting lightning on an electrically shortest path to earth. Protection of appliances inside a structure is about connecting lightning (ie a strike to utility wires far down the street) on an electrically shortest connection to earth.

Appliances are typically at greater risk since they connect to a wider area - the entire neighborhood. You determine your risk by surveying neighborhood history - at least a decade of history.

Risk is not determined by a highest point. Risk is more determined by geology. What is a best connection from a cloud to those earthborne charges? Not five miles across the sky. A shortest path is 3 miles down to earth and four miles through earth. Why were wooden church steeples damaged? Wood made a better electrical connection.

BTW, which is better - a pointed or blunt rod? Myths say pointed. Science says blunt. Another example of how hearsay is so popular rather than conclusions by first learning the science. Too many people foolishly use advertising or observation as knowledge rather than first learn over 100 years of well proven science.

Your answer starts with decades of neighborhood history. And, if possible, a better understanding of the underlying geology. Even interstate pipelines or electrical distribution terminating at the end of a street can change local geology. History is a best indicator of your local environment. How often does lightning prefer your geology?

How many others ‘used observation’ to know lightning strikes highest objects rather than first learn the science? Why did lightning not strike higher lightning rods? Instead it struck a lower bathroom wall? Observation (without first learning the science) could not honestly answer that question. Therefore many use wild speculation to make recommendations. Do not even understand the significance of geology. Do not even realize that wood is an electrical conductor.

[graciegirl]

Gosh Westom.

I am having a hard time understanding all of this.

Please tell us what you did for a living. Inquiring minds want to know.

[angiefox10]

A FL home was struck repeatedly on one exterior wall. So lightning rods were installed. Lightning again struck that same wall.

Someone whose knowledge is from observation will use the same logic that proved spontaneous reproduction. Then assume lightning rods are useless. Instead, this problem was solved by first learning the science and what was installed.

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. That cloud must connect to earthborne charges maybe miles away. A best electrical path was miles down to that bathroom wall, through pipes that connected to deeper and more conductive soils, then miles to distant charges.

Lightning rods were only connected to eight foot ground rods in sand - a poorer conductor. Lightning was connecting via something lower (that bathroom wall) that was a better electrical connection.

Too many only see a lightning rod. Will even argue 'blunt' verse 'pointed'. And completely forget what defines all protection. Again, those who make conclusions only from observation are the same junk scientists who 'knew' about spontaneous reproduction. Protection is defined by where energy dissipates. And the connection path.

Protection of structures is about connecting lightning on an electrically shortest path to earth. Protection of appliances inside a structure is about connecting lightning (ie a strike to utility wires far down the street) on an electrically shortest connection to earth.

Appliances are typically at greater risk since they connect to a wider area - the entire neighborhood. You determine your risk by surveying neighborhood history - at least a decade of history.

Risk is not determined by a highest point. Risk is more determined by geology. What is a best connection from a cloud to those earthborne charges? Not five miles across the sky. A shortest path is 3 miles down to earth and four miles through earth. Why were wooden church steeples damaged? Wood made a better electrical connection.

BTW, which is better - a pointed or blunt rod? Myths say pointed. Science says blunt. Another example of how hearsay is so popular rather than conclusions by first learning the science. Too many people foolishly use advertising or observation as knowledge rather than first learn over 100 years of well proven science.

Your answer starts with decades of neighborhood history. And, if possible, a better understanding of the underlying geology. Even interstate pipelines or electrical distribution terminating at the end of a street can change local geology. History is a best indicator of your local environment. How often does lightning prefer your geology?

How many others ‘used observation’ to know lightning strikes highest objects rather than first learn the science? Why did lightning not strike higher lightning rods? Instead it struck a lower bathroom wall? Observation (without first learning the science) could not honestly answer that question. Therefore many use wild speculation to make recommendations. Do not even understand the significance of geology. Do not even realize that wood is an electrical conductor.

Interesting thoughts on this subject.

Now....

Was that a hey or a nay on the lightening rod? :)

[westom]

I am having a hard time understanding all of this. Most of what is written was omtroduced taught in elementary school science. But something significantly new is rarely understood until at least a third reread. At least that is what I have always found. Anything understood in a first reading was already known or not worth reading.

What does lightning seek? Earth ground. That elementary school science concept underlies every paragraph.

When structure damage was unacceptable, then lightning rods (as Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752) were earthed. Nobody but a homeowner can answer 'hey or nay'. Especially since critical details (ie fear, depth of pockets) are only known to or must be learned by a homeowner. Most 'fun' (just like a casino) is to do nothing.

Another way to learn this stuff. Go fly a kite. It worked for Franklin.

[CarGuys]

Wow and I though teaching Ohms law to young Automotive Technicians was hard. That had my head spinning!

I think it all boils down to electrical higher potentional moving to a lower. What is the path of least resisitance? You can make electricity hit anything if you have enough push behind it.

When I set up my demonstration of voltage. It always takes the best conductor vs the one with the most resistiance. And in a spark plug it likes a clean flat edge vs a point.

Which is why a center electrode starts out round and flat and after 100k miles is rounded off all the way around. It keeps jumping to the newer clean edge.

Copper is a better conductor. It must be properly grounded. I would rather have lighting hit a rod on the roof than my metal AC unit, or birdcage or me!

Price of cooper is probably driving up the cost of installation. Has anyone on TOTV been quoted a price they wish to share?

We lost a very good citizen. A young Business man from Skaneateles on a Florida Golf course. Sunny day on vacation no clouds no rain raised his club to swing and bam. That was that. Dave Pirro from Pirro Bros Ford in Skaneateles NY.

[Posh 08]

Gosh Westom.

I am having a hard time understanding all of this.

Please tell us what you did for a living. Inquiring minds want to know.

Boy am I glad I didn't have him as my elementary teacher. :shrug:

[Posh 08]

Wow and I though teaching Ohms law to young Automotive Technicians was hard. That had my head spinning!

I think it all boils down to electrical higher potentional moving to a lower. What is the path of least resisitance? You can make electricity hit anything if you have enough push behind it.

When I set up my demonstration of voltage. It always takes the best conductor vs the one with the most resistiance. And in a spark plug it likes a clean flat edge vs a point.

Which is why a center electrode starts out round and flat and after 100k miles is rounded off all the way around. It keeps jumping to the newer clean edge.

Copper is a better conductor. It must be properly grounded. I would rather have lighting hit a rod on the roof than my metal AC unit, or birdcage or me!

Price of cooper is probably driving up the cost of installation. Has anyone on TOTV been quoted a price they wish to share?

We lost a very good citizen. A young Business man from Skaneateles on a Florida Golf course. Sunny day on vacation no clouds no rain raised his club to swing and bam. That was that. Dave Pirro from Pirro Bros Ford in Skaneateles NY.

A bolt from the blue. Sad and scary.

[2 Oldcrabs]

Effective ground rods need to be meggared to less than 25 ohms. I do not think any one does this in TV. The 500,000 volt tower line that goes thru TV has 2 "static" wires at the top of the towers to take the lighting shots. There are ground wires going down the towers to several ground rods at the base. These rods may be over a 100' deep to get the ohms down. Lighting does seem to hit the highest point. Working for a utility for 32 years, I have never known lighting to hit the middle of a pole or tower, it is always the top. If you do not have effective ground rods you may be wasting your money.

[angiefox10]

I think I was told to go fly a kite! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

I'm not a teacher and I won't go through a long explanation... Just to say, that a picture is worth a thousands words.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nCm2UCj6eDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://youtu.be/nCm2UCj6eDU

[westom]

I think it all boils down to electrical higher potentional moving to a lower. What is the path of least resisitance? ... When I set up my demonstration of voltage. It always takes the best conductor vs the one with the most resistiance. Resistance is irrelevant here. In automobiles, why is a high resistance wire preferred over a pure copper spark plug wire? Parameters, rarely taught to technicians, are more relevant. Same concepts must be understood by an engineer.

Above recommendations, based in what Ben Franklin first discovered in 1752, was for any layman. Simplified down to an executive summary. For example, impedance (not resistance) makes a lightning rod more effective. Both are measured in ohms. A most conductive copper conductor can be a worst connection if, for example, that wire has sharp wires bends, splices, or is inside metallic conduit.

Layman need not know about impedance. But should know a lightning rod is defined by the quality of earth ground. Anyone informed by observation would not learn what is most important – earthing.

Protection is defined by where energy dissipates and the quality of that connection. When protection fails, they may claim nothing can protect from lightning rather than discover the reason for that human created damage. How did the FL home stop lightning from striking an exterior bathroom walls? They fixed the human created defect. Upgraded ground rods. Protection to a structure or protection to household appliances is mostly about geology. And quality of that earth ground connection.

Wire resistance is mostly irrelevant. Low wire impedance is critical.

No layman need learn about impedance. But any homeowner can quickly separate the ill informed recommendation from one based in technology. As was taught in elementary school science, protection always means connecting lightning harmlessly to earth ground.

A best protection system addresses what defines protection - the earth ground. What is not observed is most important. Any recommendation based in observation is best ignored. Local geology and other environmental factors define the need.

[CarGuys]

Resistance is used to limit the current deliverd to the Spark Plug.

Old School wires burned up your plugs in 25k miles because they had not resistance.

You also create to much EMF which drives electronics nuts!

You seem like a pretty intellegent man. I just wish I was smart enough to understand your posts.:spoken:

Merry Christmas brother.

By the way all I just got hit with my first attack

12/25/21-- 12/25/31 am
SID 24089 Web Attack. Malicious Toolkit Website 9 detected

Admin is this guy the bad boy!??

[graciegirl]

Most of what is written was omtroduced taught in elementary school science. But something significantly new is rarely understood until at least a third reread. At least that is what I have always found. Anything understood in a first reading was already known or not worth reading.

What does lightning seek? Earth ground. That elementary school science concept underlies every paragraph.

When structure damage was unacceptable, then lightning rods (as Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752) were earthed. Nobody but a homeowner can answer 'hey or nay'. Especially since critical details (ie fear, depth of pockets) are only known to or must be learned by a homeowner. Most 'fun' (just like a casino) is to do nothing.

Another way to learn this stuff. Go fly a kite. It worked for Franklin.


o

I taught too. If you see confusion, drop back a bit.

Merry Christmas!

[CarGuys]

Called monitor and adjust right Gracie. Not hit rewind and push play.:ohdear:

2OldCrabs

May I please sit in the front of your class and you be my mentor! :bigbow:

Why Vocational Education Works - Called school to work! Ahhhhhhhh Ha so that's how it works. Thanks for explaining that in laymans terms.

I am assigned to teach all the districts elementary science teachers in real world Ohms law. They are loosing the new generation of kids to time tested bla bla bla bla boring. We use real world "Cars" to reinforce the books!

In Toyota factory training they call it. Need to know vs Nice to know. Now I gotta go find my kite Angie

:coolsmiley:

[angiefox10]

Is like a train wreck that I keep coming back to! :laugh:

I KNOW there must be a wealth of information here, but for the life of me, I can't get it! I used to think I was pretty smart.....

Back to my kite!


http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t131/ryanpandora/savannah07060.jpg

[graciegirl]

Making it understandable is the goal and joy of teaching.

There are a lot of smart people who are teachers who can't teach.

And thankfully, a lot who can. And they are changing the world.

[CarGuys]

It's the teacher in you Gracie, Thats why I Love your humor.

You had the teacher in me figured out 20 seconds after we met.

And I should have listened better in Math class.

I got the 2+2 or Divided or Times or Substracted but those word questions.

A Car is traveling from California to NY
A Car is traveling from NY to California
What time will your Grandmother arrive at the Dr's a week from today?

Ah I don't know let me call her! FAIL!