Lipitor, generic lipitor vs dietary measures

[Villages PL]

I'm just wondering if doctors are asking their patients to try dietary measures first before prescribing medication. Unless your liver is not functioning properly, you should be able to reduce your cholesterol by eating natural (low fat or non-fat) whole foods. Triglycerides should also be controlable through natural means. Assuming that it's possible for many, wouldn't it be worth the effort, considering the side effects? And considering the fact that most people end up taking multiple medications by age 70 to 75.

Note: Drugs are tested separately (not in combination), so no one knows for sure what the risk for disease is. Therefore, multiple drugs can and do sometimes cause liver or kidney failure. (My aunt was one of those who suffered kidney failure from taking multiple medications.)

[graciegirl]

Many of us take multiple medications.

That in itself is not a bad thing. All of your medications should be monitored by your physician including any supplements.

As for your other question, the causes for high levels of blood cholesterol are many and eating too much fat is the probably the most common cause. Genetics do play an important role too.

This is a pretty good explanation, I think.

.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_cholesterol

[Villages PL]

Many of us take multiple medications.

That in itself is not a bad thing. All of your medications should be monitored by your physician including any supplements.

So careful monitoring will indicate if the drugs are doing any damage and be in time to prevent kidney failure?

As for your other question, the causes for high levels of blood cholesterol are many and eating too much fat is the probably the most common cause. Genetics do play an important role too.

Your link said that dietary adjustments are part of the treatment, along with drugs. So the doctors do tell their patients to cut down on high fat foods, etc.? Sounds good. Although, I have known some people who took medication and then ate whatever they wanted, as if the medication would take care of everything.

About genetics: I remember reading a book by Dr. Dean Ornish where he said that there are receptors that process cholesterol. Some lucky people are born with a lot of them and some have few. Those with too few, have to be especially careful with their diet.

And some people have high cholesterol because their liver produces it and this can be caused by chronic stress. So I wonder if the doctors are also recommending stress reduction techniques.

Thanks for the link. I'll read more later.

:)

[Villages PL]

In previous posts I forgot to mention exercise as a way to help lower cholesterol. I have noticed that you won't always find everything in one book. I had to look through a couple different books to come up with that.

So the 3 main things are diet, exercise and stress control. And exercise, like walking, can be a form of stress control too.

When people think about diet they usually think about eating less fat and cholesterol. However, it's everything about your diet, including fiber. Fiber plays a big role in helping to keep cholesterol low. The average American only consumes about 12 grams of fiber per day, whereas we need at least 25 grams. And 35 grams would be ideal.

Today, while reviewing one of my books, I got reminded of something very important. It's not just saturated fat and cholesterol that can raise your blood cholesterol. It's animal protein itself! So, if you're eating a lot of non-fat cottage cheese, non-fat ricotta, egg whites, boiled chicken breast, fish and non-fat milk, you are contributing to a higher level of blood cholesterol.

Just to show how animal protein can make a difference, I'll use myself as an example: Up until the beginning of 2006, I was eating a normal amount of low fat animal protein in my diet. I believe my total blood cholesterol was up around 200 at that time (without cholesterol medication). Around May of 2006, I changed to a vegan diet. My next blood test showed my total blood cholesterol to be 184. I was disapointed because I thought that was as good as it was going to get. However, a year later my blood test showed a total cholesterol reading of 164. And it hasn't stopped going down. My latest blood test, on 7-12-2011, showed my total blood cholesterol to be 157. (My triglyceride reading of 73 basically stayed the same.)

Today was the first time I went back through my medical records and compared year by year. And it's amazing that it confirms the information I read about in "The China Study", by T Colin Campbell, PHD.

[Bobbie416]

I am new to this site, but I am not at all new to cholesterol issues. There are some people whose cholesterol cannot be controlled enough through diet and exercise. They have to take medication to keep their cholesterol levels low. Yes, they still should watch their diet, exercise, and reduce stress, but they will always need medication to keep their cholesterol low enough.

[NotGolfer]

I am new to this site, but I am not at all new to cholesterol issues. There are some people whose cholesterol cannot be controlled enough through diet and exercise. They have to take medication to keep their cholesterol levels low. Yes, they still should watch their diet, exercise, and reduce stress, but they will always need medication to keep their cholesterol low enough.

True-dat!!! Wish we had a "like" button on this site!!!

[Barefoot]

I am new to this site, but I am not at all new to cholesterol issues. There are some people whose cholesterol cannot be controlled enough through diet and exercise. They have to take medication to keep their cholesterol levels low. Yes, they still should watch their diet, exercise, and reduce stress, but they will always need medication to keep their cholesterol low enough.

Bobbie, I agree! I've been told by an endocrinologist that there is a genetic component. There are people who will need cholesterol medication regardless of how much exercise they get, even if they're slender and Vegan!

[Villages PL]

I am new to this site, but I am not at all new to cholesterol issues. There are some people whose cholesterol cannot be controlled enough through diet and exercise. They have to take medication to keep their cholesterol levels low. Yes, they still should watch their diet, exercise, and reduce stress, but they will always need medication to keep their cholesterol low enough.

How do they know? Have they tried a vegan diet?

[dsnrbec]

I was skeptical of the vegan diet approach until my 51 year old brother was diagnosed with coronary artery disease. We have a strong genetic component related to high cholesterol but he wanted to see if he could get a handle on things with diet alone. After reading The China Study and Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease, he went on an oil-free, vegan diet and his cholesterol dropped from 250 to 150 in 6 months. It's not for everyone and it's not easy to do. You have to be commited to a major life-style change but it can be done. Both of these books, along with Dean Ornish's books are filled with anecdotal evidence of people who got a handle on things without medication.

[Shimpy]

So careful monitoring will indicate if the drugs are doing any damage and be in time to prevent kidney failure?



Your link said that dietary adjustments are part of the treatment, along with drugs. So the doctors do tell their patients to cut down on high fat foods, etc.? Sounds good. Although, I have known some people who took medication and then ate whatever they wanted, as if the medication would take care of everything.

About genetics: I remember reading a book by Dr. Dean Ornish where he said that there are receptors that process cholesterol. Some lucky people are born with a lot of them and some have few. Those with too few, have to be especially careful with their diet.

And some people have high cholesterol because their liver produces it and this can be caused by chronic stress. So I wonder if the doctors are also recommending stress reduction techniques.

Thanks for the link. I'll read more later.

:)


You mention Dr. Dean Ornish who I think is one of the best. Diet is more important than most people think. Read the posts here about restaurants and how people brag about how good the fried fish was. Set down for a while on one of the squares and see how long it takes to find a person that isn't overweight. It is unfortunately the American diet and as a result diabetes is nearing an epidemic. Cholesterol drugs do a great job, but you are cheating yourself if you don't watch your diet.

[Barefoot]

I'm sure it's true that if people made better food choices, quit smoking, stopped drinking alcohol, and got more exercise, we'd have a healthier aging population on less meds. And obviously evidence exists that shows a Vegan diet is a healthy alternative. I think most people are aware of this. But Boomers aren't known for self denial.

[Villages PL]

I was skeptical of the vegan diet approach until my 51 year old brother was diagnosed with coronary artery disease. We have a strong genetic component related to high cholesterol but he wanted to see if he could get a handle on things with diet alone. After reading The China Study and Preventing and Reversing Heart Disease, he went on an oil-free, vegan diet and his cholesterol dropped from 250 to 150 in 6 months. It's not for everyone and it's not easy to do. You have to be commited to a major life-style change but it can be done. Both of these books, along with Dean Ornish's books are filled with anecdotal evidence of people who got a handle on things without medication.

Thanks, the story about your brother is much appreciated. I went on a vegan diet after reading "The China Study" because I'm trying to prevent cancer. My father and brother both had prostate cancer and many other family members had other forms of cancer. It seems I don't have to worry about heart disease as there hasn't been one instance of heart disease in my large extended family.

I'll add one more book to the good reading list you gave: "The Cardiovascular Cure" by John Cooke, MD, PhD. This book is loaded with good information about arteries and what it takes to reverse artery disease.

:)

[TrudyM]

I am new to this site, but I am not at all new to cholesterol issues. There are some people whose cholesterol cannot be controlled enough through diet and exercise. They have to take medication to keep their cholesterol levels low. Yes, they still should watch their diet, exercise, and reduce stress, but they will always need medication to keep their cholesterol low enough.

My husbands GP took him off the statin drug he was taking (Lipitor) because his liver numbers were a little off. He did the whole eat right and exercise thing lost weight etc. His colesterol still stayed up at 206.

He almost died. He had without warning a shortness of breath and went to the doctor they did a rush angioplasty and two stints. He had a 97% blockage. The Cardo doctor said if a GP or Geriatric doctor takes you off a statin you should get an assesment by a Cardiologist and an indepth workup including sonigrams to check for blockage. If you have high cholesterol you are at risk. Adjusting your life style to bring it down and thus being able to reduce your dosage is great but don't just stop without a second opinion, my husband did with a potential disaster.

Just our expierience,
TrudyM

[graciegirl]

Trudy. I am glad to hear a positive for Lipitor. It is a WIDELY prescribed drug that is doing a lot of good for people. There are side effects of course as there is with any prescribed medication.

There are people who sell supplements that will tell people that prescribed medications are bad and that it is a huge industry and selling them makes money for the big pharmaceutical companies. Well of course it does, but many if not most of the commonly prescribed medication like blood pressure meds and Lipitor are prolonging our lives.

VillagesPl. seems very pleased that he takes NO drugs. We have friends who will NOT take prescribed medication from their doctors.

If anyone is not consulting a good MD and just reading popular health books, I think they are doing themselves a huge disservice and possibly endangering their good health.

I do believe that a good diet with less fat and more fruits and vegetables and less sugar would be good for almost everyone, and frequent exercise that raises our heart rate every day is very beneficial, but it is wise also to consult your doctor, insist on proper tests, even if we have to dig deep and pay for them ourselves and for all of us to follow our doctors advice.

[Challenger]

At 66 was still running 25 to 20 mi per week and 2 rounds of golf and bowling.Weighed in at 175- 6'2". Noticed some shortness of breath when running. Had Ekg and triple bypass 4 wks later. Non smoker(ever) non drinker and generally ate healthy. Colestorol prior to Lipitor over 200-ldl= 130+. Now with Lipitor total C= 102- ldl 50. In my case diet has little discernable impact on C level.

[Barefoot]

.

I do believe that a good diet with less fat and more fruits and vegetables and less sugar would be good for almost everyone, and frequent exercise that raises our heart rate every day is very beneficial, but it is wise also to consult your doctor, insist on proper tests, even if we have to dig deep and pay for them ourselves and for all of us to follow our doctors advice.

GG, I'm with you on this one. Some people feel "ashamed" if they resort to prescription drugs. And they feel a sense of superiority if they stop taking them, even if a doctor is recommending them. Yet they will take untested products from the health food store without question.

Certainly a good diet and exercise are important, no-one disputes that. But there is a genetic component to illnesses. I think taking as few drugs as possible, whether from the pharmacy or the health food store, is important.
But I also think having medical tests and following the advice of doctors is equally important, and can save lives.

[Villages PL]

My husbands GP took him off the statin drug he was taking (Lipitor) because his liver numbers were a little off. He did the whole eat right and exercise thing lost weight etc. His colesterol still stayed up at 206.

He almost died. He had without warning a shortness of breath and went to the doctor they did a rush angioplasty and two stints. He had a 97% blockage. The Cardo doctor said if a GP or Geriatric doctor takes you off a statin you should get an assesment by a Cardiologist and an indepth workup including sonigrams to check for blockage. If you have high cholesterol you are at risk. Adjusting your life style to bring it down and thus being able to reduce your dosage is great but don't just stop without a second opinion, my husband did with a potential disaster.

Just our expierience,
TrudyM

Your overall message is good: "...don't just stop without a second opinion..."
But I wonder, did the Cardio doctor put him back on Lipitor after the angioplasty? If so, how were his "liver numbers"?

The other thing I wonder about is, "....the whole eat right and exercise thing lost weight etc.." What supervision or guidance did he have for that? And, if he had such guidance, did he follow it to the letter? What was his weight before he started and how much weight did he lose? What was his form of exercise? Stress control? What diet did he follow? All of this information is needed if one is to come to any kind of worthwhile conclusion

My advice to people is to eat right, control stress and exercise before trouble starts. In other words, the best thing is to not get overweight in the first place. If you wait until trouble is diagnosed, your efforts may provide too little, too late.

Having said that, it is very possible to reverse clogged arteries through diet, exercise and stress control. (Keep in mind that no one can ever give a 100% garantee because no one knows what amount of effort any person will put into any given regimen.)

Also, angioplasty doesn't get anyone "off-the-hook" as far as having to live a healthy lifestyle. If drastic lifestyle changes aren't made, the next step is more angioplasty and, eventually, bypass surgery. In the mean time, a person can get a stroke and I have seen this happen. And I'll add one more thing: Even bypass surgery won't get one off-the-hook for having to live a healthy lifestyle. Clogged arteries can come back within several months or 2 to 3 years. Angioplasty and/or bypass is not a cure, it just buys some time.

[Villages PL]

At 66 was still running 25 to 20 mi per week and 2 rounds of golf and bowling.Weighed in at 175- 6'2". Noticed some shortness of breath when running. Had Ekg and triple bypass 4 wks later. Non smoker(ever) non drinker and generally ate healthy. Colestorol prior to Lipitor over 200-ldl= 130+. Now with Lipitor total C= 102- ldl 50. In my case diet has little discernable impact on C level.

What sends up a red flag to me is the 20 to 25 miles per week of running etc.. Sounds a bit excessive and can itself cause stress (raising cortisol levels). And "diet" can mean anything.

[Challenger]

What sends up a red flag to me is the 20 to 25 miles per week of running etc.. Sounds a bit excessive and can itself cause stress (raising cortisol levels). And "diet" can mean anything.

Never had any health professional advise that high mileage would increase cortisol and thereby increase LDL . . Dont run anymore due to Knee and foot issues but do walk, and golf quite a bit. Apreciate your input

[Bobbie416]

At 66 was still running 25 to 20 mi per week and 2 rounds of golf and bowling.Weighed in at 175- 6'2". Noticed some shortness of breath when running. Had Ekg and triple bypass 4 wks later. Non smoker(ever) non drinker and generally ate healthy. Colestorol prior to Lipitor over 200-ldl= 130+. Now with Lipitor total C= 102- ldl 50. In my case diet has little discernable impact on C level.

Challenger...Thank you for sharing your experiences. Many do not realize that that cardiac issues can be caused by things other than an unhealthy lifestyle. You obviously are not overweight at all. I am overweight and am trying hard to eat properly and lose the weight. I have cardiac issues and know that the excess weight does not help. However, no matter what I eat or what I weigh, I will always need cholesterol lowering medication because my body produces too much LDL cholesterol and my HDL levels are low.

I find the studies about the vegan diets particularly interesting. I am sure they work for many people. However, they do not work for everyone. I have a daughter who has been vegetarian for almost 20 years. She became vegan a few years ago. She is very aware of what she eats. Her cholesterol levels cannot be kept at a safe level without medication. We have familial hyperlipidemia, which, at least in our family, cannot be controlled through diet and exercise alone. We are very thankful to have cholesterol lowering medications and some of us might not be here today without them.

[graciegirl]

Challenger...Thank you for sharing your experiences. Many do not realize that that cardiac issues can be caused by things other than an unhealthy lifestyle. You obviously are not overweight at all. I am overweight and am trying hard to eat properly and lose the weight. I have cardiac issues and know that the excess weight does not help. However, no matter what I eat or what I weigh, I will always need cholesterol lowering medication because my body produces too much LDL cholesterol and my HDL levels are low.

I find the studies about the vegan diets particularly interesting. I am sure they work for many people. However, they do not work for everyone. I have a daughter who has been vegetarian for almost 20 years. She became vegan a few years ago. She is very aware of what she eats. Her cholesterol levels cannot be kept at a safe level without medication. We have familial hyperlipidemia, which, at least in our family, cannot be controlled through diet and exercise alone. We are very thankful to have cholesterol lowering medications and some of us might not be here today without them.

Our daughter Helene, who lives with us, walks for an hour every day and weighs 128 pounds and her cholesterol level, the one that is worried about is 226. Her father and I eat the same menu and ours are lower. She is 46.

Doctor says it is the genetic issue. She will start statins in three months. She just wants to see if she can change things with a big change in diet and more exercise.

I am betting she will not be able to.

Thank heavens for Lipitor and other statins. Bare's post reminded me that there are several choices.

[Barefoot]

Villages PL, you titled this thread "Lipitor and Generic Lipitor vs Dietary Measures" . You have not mentioned the other types of medications sold to lower cholesterol, and there are many. For instance, I've read that Crestor is the most widely-used prescription drug recommended by doctors.

I'm curious .. do you think that Lipitor is particular harmful?

Drugs used to control cholesterol
•Crestor (rosuvastatin)
•Lipitor (atorvastatin)
•Lescol (fluvastatin)
•Mevacor (lovastatin)
•Livalo (pitavastatin)
•Pravachol (pravastatin)
•Zocor (simvastatin)

[TrudyM]

Your overall message is good: "...don't just stop without a second opinion..."
But I wonder, did the Cardio doctor put him back on Lipitor after the angioplasty? If so, how were his "liver numbers"?

The other thing I wonder about is, "....the whole eat right and exercise thing lost weight etc.." What supervision or guidance did he have for that? And, if he had such guidance, did he follow it to the letter? What was his weight before he started and how much weight did he lose? What was his form of exercise? Stress control? What diet did he follow? All of this information is needed if one is to come to any kind of worthwhile conclusion

My advice to people is to eat right, control stress and exercise before trouble starts. In other words, the best thing is to not get overweight in the first place. If you wait until trouble is diagnosed, your efforts may provide too little, too late.

Having said that, it is very possible to reverse clogged arteries through diet, exercise and stress control. (Keep in mind that no one can ever give a 100% garantee because no one knows what amount of effort any person will put into any given regimen.)

Also, angioplasty doesn't get anyone "off-the-hook" as far as having to live a healthy lifestyle. If drastic lifestyle changes aren't made, the next step is more angioplasty and, eventually, bypass surgery. In the mean time, a person can get a stroke and I have seen this happen. And I'll add one more thing: Even bypass surgery won't get one off-the-hook for having to live a healthy lifestyle. Clogged arteries can come back within several months or 2 to 3 years. Angioplasty and/or bypass is not a cure, it just buys some time.

He lost 25 lbs. I was just warning that some are like my husband and jumped at the idea of not taking the Lipitor and it was a mistake in his case.
His liver numbers are only slightly elevated now that he is back on lipitor, and within aceptable range. The doctors said (he has now seen several including a nutrition specialist) that it is genetic. His family all eat raw fish and rice to the exclusion of most everything else (Japanese/ Hawaiian diet - commercial fisherman) and they have all had heart issues. He walks every day now - before it was just the golf course and to and from the parking lot at work (15 min walk). He has added walking laps in the mall since the procedure as it is always raining here this time of year. (Seattle) The docs have added severe diet restrictions and exercise of an hour a day in addition to the lipitor, but say he will never be able to be off a statin.

As an aside to another post- I take pravistatin myself as Lipitor gave me leg cramps and the formulation is a little different and it worked better for me.

My hat is off to all of you who have the dicipline to exercise and eat right. I do not. I live on coffee. - work at the computer in my comfy office chair all day.


Got to get back to work, bye now
Trudy