How Do You Feel About This?

[Guest]

Did anyone pick up on the recent announcements from the scientific community?

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator. It is expected to address some of the most fundamental questions of physics, advancing the understanding of the deepest laws of nature. The LHC is the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator. The collider is contained in a circular tunnel, with a circumference of 17 miiles, at a depth ranging from 160 to 574 feet underground. It crosses the border between Switzerland and France at four points, with most of it in France.

The LHC is one of the most expensive scientific instruments ever built. The total cost of the project is in the order of $4.4 billion for the accelerator and about $1.1 billion to fund the cost of experiments. The funding of the construction of LHC was approved in 1995 by the French government.

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Recently it was announced that what had been the largest and most scientifically productive particle accelerator in the world, located at the Fermi Laboratories in Batavia, Illinois, will be shut down as the result of the failure of the U.S. Congress to fund it's continued operation.
How do you feel about some of the most important scientific research the world has ever known now being owned by France? Many of our leading quantum physicists are extremely critical of the failure of our government to continue to fund such a productive scientific program. This type of research has been fundamental to the development of various U.S. nuclear programs which have produced both advances in the sourcing of energy as well as all of our nuclear weapons.

How much time do you think our Congress spent even thinking about the contributions the basic science represented by facilities such as this has contributed to our economy and national defense? It seems to me that they've been too busy arguing about other ideological issues and trying to get themselves re-elected.

[Guest]

"How much time do you think our congress spent...."

You give congress too much credit by connect "thinking" with this body of representatives who only service their needs.

[Guest]

"How much time do you think our congress spent...."

You give congress too much credit by connect "thinking" with this body of representatives who only service their needs.

:agree:

[Guest]

Did anyone pick up on the recent announcements from the scientific community?

The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator. It is expected to address some of the most fundamental questions of physics, advancing the understanding of the deepest laws of nature. The LHC is the world's largest and highest-energy particle accelerator. The collider is contained in a circular tunnel, with a circumference of 17 miiles, at a depth ranging from 160 to 574 feet underground. It crosses the border between Switzerland and France at four points, with most of it in France.

The LHC is one of the most expensive scientific instruments ever built. The total cost of the project is in the order of $4.4 billion for the accelerator and about $1.1 billion to fund the cost of experiments. The funding of the construction of LHC was approved in 1995 by the French government.

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Recently it was announced that what had been the largest and most scientifically productive particle accelerator in the world, located at the Fermi Laboratories in Batavia, Illinois, will be shut down as the result of the failure of the U.S. Congress to fund it's continued operation.
How do you feel about some of the most important scientific research the world has ever known now being owned by France? Many of our leading quantum physicists are extremely critical of the failure of our government to continue to fund such a productive scientific program. This type of research has been fundamental to the development of various U.S. nuclear programs which have produced both advances in the sourcing of energy as well as all of our nuclear weapons.

How much time do you think our Congress spent even thinking about the contributions the basic science represented by facilities such as this has contributed to our economy and national defense? It seems to me that they've been too busy arguing about other ideological issues and trying to get themselves re-elected.

Out of my element on this but how does this story from December play intot this....

"BATAVIA, Ill.-- The announcement to invest $20 million in capital funding for Fermilab was made Friday.

Governor Pat Quinn says the investment is part of his Illinois Jobs Now! initiative and that the money will be used for the construction of a new building. Additionally, 200 new high-tech jobs will be created from the expansion.

Ground was broken Friday on the new facility, which will be part of Fermilab's Illinois Accelerator Research Center Complex.

Governor Quinn says the new addition to the facility will put Illinois in the forefront of world technology. "

http://www.centralillinoisnewscenter.com/news/political/Quinn-Invests-20-Million-in-New-Fermilab-Addition-135747218.html

[Guest]

...how does this story from December play into this....

"BATAVIA, Ill.-- The announcement to invest $20 million in capital funding for Fermilab was made Friday.

Governor Pat Quinn says the investment is part of his Illinois Jobs Now! initiative and that the money will be used for the construction of a new building. Additionally, 200 new high-tech jobs will be created from the expansion.

Ground was broken Friday on the new facility, which will be part of Fermilab's Illinois Accelerator Research Center Complex.

Governor Quinn says the new addition to the facility will put Illinois in the forefront of world technology. "

http://www.centralillinoisnewscenter.com/news/political/Quinn-Invests-20-Million-in-New-Fermilab-Addition-135747218.htmlI can't explain the state investment, Bucco. First, it's less than was needed to keep the accelerator operating. Second, according to the following post in Engadget, the Illinois' governor's announcement was made 2-3 months after the accelerator was permanently shut down...

From Engadget, Friday, 30 Sep 2011

The eyes of the physics community are collectively fixed upon Illinois today, where, later this afternoon, researchers at Fermilab will shut down the Tevatron particle accelerator... for good. That's right -- the world's second-largest collider is being laid to rest, after a remarkable 25-year run that was recently halted due to budgetary constraints. Earlier this year, Fermilab's scientists and a group of prominent physicists pleaded with the government to keep the Tevatron running until 2014, but the Energy Department ultimately determined that the lab's $100 million price tag was too steep, effectively driving a nail through the accelerator's subterranean, four-mile-long coffin.

First activated in 1985, the Tevatron scored a series of subatomic breakthroughs over the course of its lifespan, including, most notably, the discovery of the so-called top quark in 1995. Its groundbreaking technology helped pave the way for the Large Hadron Collider, which will now pursue the one jewel missing from the Tevatron's resume -- the Higgs boson. Many experts contend that the collider could've gone on to achieve much more, but its ride will nonetheless come to an inglorious end at 2 PM today, when Fermilab director Pier Oddone oversees the Tevatron's shutdown. "That will be it," physicist Gregorio Bernardi told the Washington Post.

[Guest]

how I feel about it is it is further testimony to the fact the US government no longer has any priority in the advancement and well being of the USA and it's people. It is all about the politicians and the needs of their contributors.

There is no focus on the good of the country or it's people...the current administration's words, as has been the case for 3 years, do not match up with actions to make it so.

Perpetual validation of lack of focus by Obama and complete absence of leadership.

btk

[Guest]

Here's how our government works in one area of science.

On the one hand, they're giving contracts to private firms to provide services regarding cargo and, eventually, people to and from the International Space Station. SpaceX is way out in the lead on this. In February, their Dragon capsule - the ONLY privately developed space capsule to ever go into orbit and be recovered after re-entry - will undergo another test that will most likely include docking with the ISS and delivering supplies.

They (SpaceX) got a contract to upgrade the Dragon to become man-rated so it can carry astronauts. ...and they're not the only contract winner (Orbital Sciences and others are also in on these contracts)

MEANWHILE - Congress has decided on welfare for the aerospace industry. NASA's Orion capsule was originally part of the "Constellation" project. This was a whole series of new rockets that would return us to space post-Shuttle. Most of it has been cancelled. The Ares I-X flew and incomplete version of the rocket ONCE. Everything was tossed out basically because of the incredible cost overruns and delays that were happening with the project. SpaceX (started by PayPal founder Elon Musk who also started Tesla Motors), meanwhile, was able to design, develop, build, test and successfully launch COMPLETELY new rocket systems for pennies on the dollar while NASA's partners contemplated their navels.

So now we get this press release from NASA:


NASA DECIDES ARCHITECTURE FOR FUTURE HUMAN DEEP SPACE EXPLORATION

NASA reached several milestones in developing a new U.S. space
transportation system that will serve as the cornerstone for
America's future human space exploration efforts. The first decision
came in late May, when NASA Administrator Bolden selected the Orion
Crew Exploration Vehicle as the spacecraft that would take astronauts
beyond low Earth orbit. In addition to exceeding the requirements
necessary for deep space travel, it was consistent with the NASA
Authorization Act of 2010 to retain as much of the current workforce
and its critical skills as possible. In September, Bolden announced
the design of a new Space Launch System -- a heavy-lift rocket that
will take our astronauts farther into space than ever before, create
high-quality jobs here at home, and provide the cornerstone for
America's future human space exploration efforts.


This is despite Elon Musk announcing the Falcon-9 Heavy which will deliver cargo to space for so little money, even the Chinese are wondering how he can do it.

Make no mistake - I am a HUGE fan of NASA and have been since the days of Gemini and Apollo. But I'm NOT a fan of the entrenched beauracracy. Did you catch the line in the press release - that the NASA Authorization Act of 2010 has a mandate in it to keep jobs (as opposed to producing results).

[Guest]

Out of my element on this but how does this story from December play intot this....

"BATAVIA, Ill.-- The announcement to invest $20 million in capital funding for Fermilab was made Friday.

Governor Pat Quinn says the investment is part of his Illinois Jobs Now! initiative and that the money will be used for the construction of a new building. Additionally, 200 new high-tech jobs will be created from the expansion.

Ground was broken Friday on the new facility, which will be part of Fermilab's Illinois Accelerator Research Center Complex.

Governor Quinn says the new addition to the facility will put Illinois in the forefront of world technology. "

http://www.centralillinoisnewscenter.com/news/political/Quinn-Invests-20-Million-in-New-Fermilab-Addition-135747218.html


How odd. I looked on the company's website and saw the same info in a press release. @VK, it is state and federal funding.

"The Illinois Jobs Now! capital bill provided $20 million to the Illinois Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity to fund a grant for the design and construction of a new building that will form part of the IARC complex...

"The DOE is also providing $13 million to Fermilab to refurbish an existing heavy industrial building that will be incorporated into the complex, adding 36,000 square feet of specialized workspace."

There's been a lot of politics going on behind the scenes that we don't know about on this one. Spend $33 million with hopes of creating 200 new high tech jobs sounds like the American people are campaigning for someone in Illinois.


Please read this editorial from a local Illinois newspaper for an example of political favors.

http://napervillesun.suntimes.com/news/west/9420973-418/scuttled-ssc-would-have-nailed-higgs-boson.html