Gingrich's Plan For Illegal Immigration

[Guest]

I happened to turn on Gingrich's address today to some Latin group in Miami. The part I listened to completely were his thoughts on illegal immigration. I'll have to say, I agree with him 100%.

I guess some of those farther to the right than me have accused Gingrich of supporting amnesty for illegals who are already here. That's not what I heard at all. What he seems to embrace is a reasonable approach to dealing with 11-12 million people, many of whom have been here working and being part of their communities for decades.

Gingrich also supports a "guest worker program". Now I know there will be some who will violently object to legally permitting foreign workers into the country to do work that could be done by unemployed Americans. But, it's work that needs to be done and Americans apparently choose not to work that hard, or work for the wages that foreign workers agree to, so such a program makes sense to me. Maybe if we eliminated the generous unemployment benefits and welfare, Americans might get hungry enough to actually work.

What say all of you here in the Political forum?

[Guest]

I happened to turn on Gingrich's address today to some Latin group in Miami. The part I listened to completely were his thoughts on illegal immigration. I'll have to say, I agree with him 100%.

I guess some of those farther to the right than me have accused Gingrich of supporting amnesty for illegals who are already here. That's not what I heard at all. What he seems to embrace is a reasonable approach to dealing with 11-12 million people, many of whom have been here working and being part of their communities for decades.

Gingrich also supports a "guest worker program". Now I know there will be some who will violently object to legally permitting foreign workers into the country to do work that could be done by unemployed Americans. But, it's work that needs to be done and Americans apparently choose not to work that hard, or work for the wages that foreign workers agree to, so such a program makes sense to me. Maybe if we eliminated the generous unemployment benefits and welfare, Americans might get hungry enough to actually work.

What say all of you here in the Political forum?

There is an old parable that goes...."Put and infinite number of monkeys in a room with an infinite number of typewriters, and they will eventually type all the works of Shakespeare." Newt has an infinite number of ideas, ultimately one of them has to be right.

[Guest]

Of course, that is a speech to a Latin group in South Florida. Good thing he did not mix up his speech and talk about guest workers on his moon base. I like Ann Coulter's take on this.

Ann Coulter - January 25, 2012 - RE-ELECT OBAMA: VOTE NEWT! (http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2012-01-25.html)

[Guest]

Romney is being pushed by the Establishment. So don't expect much to change in Washington if he is elected.

[Guest]

The establishment being defined as anyone who doesn't support Newt. Boy, Ann Coulter's column, referenced above, is just "the gift who keeps on giving".

[Guest]

From what I heard on the local news last night, Florida's strawberry crop is rotting on the vine since apparently no one will pick the stawberries. I guess the migrant workers have self-deported. We'll see what the republican governor and legislature do about this $250,000,000 dilemma.

[Guest]

I have to take exception to your "generous unemployment benefits" statement. The maximum benefit in Florida is $275.00 a week, with a minimum benefit of $32.00.

[Guest]

From what I heard on the local news last night, Florida's strawberry crop is rotting on the vine since apparently no one will pick the stawberries. I guess the migrant workers have self-deported. We'll see what the republican governor and legislature do about this billion dollar dilemma.

You want the Governor to pick the strawberries ??????

[Guest]

I'm with VK. Eliminate the generous unemployment benefits or at least prune them back alot. Folks in most nations of the world live happy healthy lives with only what Americans equate with extreme poverty.

[Guest]

I happened to turn on Gingrich's address today to some Latin group in Miami. The part I listened to completely were his thoughts on illegal immigration. I'll have to say, I agree with him 100%.

I guess some of those farther to the right than me have accused Gingrich of supporting amnesty for illegals who are already here. That's not what I heard at all. What he seems to embrace is a reasonable approach to dealing with 11-12 million people, many of whom have been here working and being part of their communities for decades.

Gingrich also supports a "guest worker program". Now I know there will be some who will violently object to legally permitting foreign workers into the country to do work that could be done by unemployed Americans. But, it's work that needs to be done and Americans apparently choose not to work that hard, or work for the wages that foreign workers agree to, so such a program makes sense to me. Maybe if we eliminated the generous unemployment benefits and welfare, Americans might get hungry enough to actually work.

What say all of you here in the Political forum?

We need to be creative and consider ways illegal immigrants can earn citizenship, rather than simply insisting the only options are amnesty or deportation. Newt and Mitt both said in a recent debate that they would agree to award citizenship for those who served n the military. I would agree.
Also, how about a procedure whereby all illegals who reported themselves would be given a period (maybe seven years) to serve in the military or do two years of national service. They would have to remain free of criminal convictions. Foreign students and technicians could stay if they got and kept a job, but it would be at apprentice pay for at least 3-4 years. Employers would be allowed to hire these more skilled workers at lower pay, which would be their incentive to do so. Farmers who receive crop subsidies would be allowed to hire illegals at a specific minimum wage in lieu of full subsidy payments. Domestics and other unskilled workers could be hired at wages below the national minimum, but a tax would have to be paid by their employers to make up the difference between the paid wage and a "competitive" wage, so that citizens would not be closed out in these employment areas. So as an example, in a specific state or region, illegals could be hired for domestic work at the rate of perhaps $7 per hour, but the employer would have to pay a tax of perhaps $3 per hour since the job had a 'market value' of $10 per hour. In all cases, illegals could be eligible or citizenship after a successful probationary period of maybe 5-7 years.

I'm getting so "out of the box" here that I'm even thinking qualifying for citizenship could be partially or fully retroactive for those who met conditions like the above. But those who worked for employers who paid lower than minimum wage would have to obtain a sponsor who would pay the tax which was never collected. This tax could be paid without the source being made public, which would protect employers from prosecution for violating the previous laws against hiring illegals.

Geez, I think I'm done for now.

[Guest]

So is Newt

[Guest]

[QUOTE=ijusluvit;446093]
Also, how about a procedure whereby all illegals who reported themselves would be given a period (maybe seven years) to serve in the military or do two years of national service. They would have to remain free of criminal convictions. Foreign students and technicians could stay if they got and kept a job, but it would be at apprentice pay for at least 3-4 years. Employers would be allowed to hire these more skilled workers at lower pay, which would be their incentive to do so. Farmers who receive crop subsidies would be allowed to hire illegals at a specific minimum wage in lieu of full subsidy payments. Domestics and other unskilled workers could be hired at wages below the national minimum, but a tax would have to be paid by their employers to make up the difference between the paid wage and a "competitive" wage, so that citizens would not be closed out in these employment areas. So as an example, in a specific state or region, illegals could be hired for domestic work at the rate of perhaps $7 per hour, but the employer would have to pay a tax of perhaps $3 per hour since the job had a 'market value' of $10 per hour. In all cases, illegals could be eligible or citizenship after a successful probationary period of maybe 5-7 years.
I'm getting so "out of the box" here that I'm even thinking qualifying for citizenship could be partially or fully retroactive for those who met conditions like the above. But those who worked for employers who paid lower than minimum wage would have to obtain a sponsor who would pay the tax which was never collected. This tax could be paid without the source being made public, which would protect employers from prosecution for violating the previous laws against hiring illegals.


Yes, this is a perfect Republican plan: Pay the foreign workers less money than Americans. Tax the employer for hiring the foreign workers. The foreign worker would have to find sponsor to pay taxes for them - and the employers would not have to worry about prosecution for violating employment laws. More taxes on the business owner and avoiding penalty for breaking the law. :ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

[Guest]

what I meant was that employers might be given amnesty for hiring an illegal in the past if they sponsored that person seeking citizenship. Think of it like someone making a settlement with the IRS to avoid prosecution. Happens every day.

[Guest]

There is an old parable that goes...."Put and infinite number of monkeys in a room with an infinite number of typewriters, and they will eventually type all the works of Shakespeare."

Except that we've tested that theory. The invention of the Internet has disproven it. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

[QUOTE=ijusluvit;446093]
Also, how about a procedure whereby all illegals who reported themselves would be given a period (maybe seven years) to serve in the military or do two years of national service. They would have to remain free of criminal convictions. Foreign students and technicians could stay if they got and kept a job, but it would be at apprentice pay for at least 3-4 years. Employers would be allowed to hire these more skilled workers at lower pay, which would be their incentive to do so. Farmers who receive crop subsidies would be allowed to hire illegals at a specific minimum wage in lieu of full subsidy payments. Domestics and other unskilled workers could be hired at wages below the national minimum, but a tax would have to be paid by their employers to make up the difference between the paid wage and a "competitive" wage, so that citizens would not be closed out in these employment areas. So as an example, in a specific state or region, illegals could be hired for domestic work at the rate of perhaps $7 per hour, but the employer would have to pay a tax of perhaps $3 per hour since the job had a 'market value' of $10 per hour. In all cases, illegals could be eligible or citizenship after a successful probationary period of maybe 5-7 years.
I'm getting so "out of the box" here that I'm even thinking qualifying for citizenship could be partially or fully retroactive for those who met conditions like the above. But those who worked for employers who paid lower than minimum wage would have to obtain a sponsor who would pay the tax which was never collected. This tax could be paid without the source being made public, which would protect employers from prosecution for violating the previous laws against hiring illegals.


Yes, this is a perfect Republican plan: Pay the foreign workers less money than Americans. Tax the employer for hiring the foreign workers. The foreign worker would have to find sponsor to pay taxes for them - and the employers would not have to worry about prosecution for violating employment laws. More taxes on the business owner and avoiding penalty for breaking the law. :ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

Ok Buggy....what would YOU do about the illegal immigrant situation?

Please...enlighten us.:)

[Guest]

Hey buggyone, Ole Buddy, PM me your address so that I can move in and YOU can pay all my bills, inculding medical and make sure that you have only stuff that I like to eat, steak, the good ones, none of that cheap beef stuff and also I will need some spending money each month. Just call me an undocumented uninvited house guest. BTW, upgrade your TV to hi-def, at least 60" and get all the movie channels so I don't get bored.

[Guest]

What is wrong with enforcing the laws of the land that are currently on the books regarding the process for legal immigration into the USA?

Why is it selective? If one is coming across the Atlantic they must follow the laws of the land to get in. Imagine, having to wait, standing in line to show paperwork before being allowed to enter. Even coming from Canada?

So why are so many Americans working so hard at trying to figure out how to deal with "ILLEGAL" immigrants?

So why all the duress over an issue that already has a solution? Because of the politics!! It is as simple as that. This is what we get when it becomes questionable whether to do what is right.

Follow the law like those coming across all our other borders. Just like we all have to do when we go to Mexico or any other civilized country.

Is it any wonder why other countries are always ready to try us on? When they see the law is applied sometimes and other times not.

Totally ridiculous side stepping the real underlying issues for the sake of a few spine less politicians.

btk

[Guest]

There is no way we are going to send the illegals back to what ever country they are from.There is just to many of them we couldn't afford it any way. Police all the employers find the illegals that are working register them make them pay taxes the same as we do and they would need to reregister every year. When I lived and worked in the Keys this is the way it happened, I even carried a copy of my birth certificate with me at all times. The big problem with illegal non tax paying illegals is the temp agencies that are not required to document the people they contract out to employers. This is very happens all the time in Florida and every where in the US. I see this every day and most people don't know that iit happens. Immigration is a hard problem to work out mainly this country has looked the other way because we got cheap labor. And it is not just the Hispanic community it's Russians and many more nationalities. So Newt's idea is probably the best thing I've ever heard of. No don't give them citizenship until they have been documented for lets say ten years but make them pay taxes and not benefits till they are legal. After all they have broken our laws we didnt ask them to do that. Put them on probation id you will.

[Guest]

What is wrong with enforcing the laws of the land that are currently on the books regarding the process for legal immigration into the USA?

Why is it selective? If one is coming across the Atlantic they must follow the laws of the land to get in. Imagine, having to wait, standing in line to show paperwork before being allowed to enter. Even coming from Canada?

So why are so many Americans working so hard at trying to figure out how to deal with "ILLEGAL" immigrants?

So why all the duress over an issue that already has a solution? Because of the politics!! It is as simple as that. This is what we get when it becomes questionable whether to do what is right.

Follow the law like those coming across all our other borders. Just like we all have to do when we go to Mexico or any other civilized country.

Is it any wonder why other countries are always ready to try us on? When they see the law is applied sometimes and other times not.

Totally ridiculous side stepping the real underlying issues for the sake of a few spine less politicians.

btk

Another spot on post by BTK...how can you argue with the law?

[Guest]

What is wrong with enforcing the laws of the land that are currently on the books regarding the process for legal immigration into the USA?

Why is it selective? If one is coming across the Atlantic they must follow the laws of the land to get in. Imagine, having to wait, standing in line to show paperwork before being allowed to enter. Even coming from Canada?

So why are so many Americans working so hard at trying to figure out how to deal with "ILLEGAL" immigrants?

So why all the duress over an issue that already has a solution? Because of the politics!! It is as simple as that. This is what we get when it becomes questionable whether to do what is right.

Follow the law like those coming across all our other borders. Just like we all have to do when we go to Mexico or any other civilized country.

Is it any wonder why other countries are always ready to try us on? When they see the law is applied sometimes and other times not.

Totally ridiculous side stepping the real underlying issues for the sake of a few spine less politicians.

btk

Bingo.

[Guest]

You want the Governor to pick the strawberries ??????

The governor and legislature set the immigration policy for the state.

[Guest]

The governor and legislature set the immigration policy for the state.

Hence....


Brewer invited Obama to visit border (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/01/brewer-invited-obama-to-visit-border/1?csp=34news)


This is what happens....

[Guest]

Jan Brewer is a moron that makes even Sarah Palin look educatable.

[Guest]

Jan Brewer is a moron that makes even Sarah Palin look educatable.

We all know how you feel about Jan Brewer, Buggy.

But this was in response to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by janmcn
The governor and legislature set the immigration policy for the state.

Is this not what happened when the governor tried to set the immigration policy for her state?

[Guest]

As long as we pay American not to work, we will need border crossers to help with the jobs those bums will not do.

[Guest]

Gingrich also supports a "guest worker program". Now I know there will be some who will violently object to legally permitting foreign workers into the country to do work that could be done by unemployed Americans. But, it's work that needs to be done and Americans apparently choose not to work that hard, or work for the wages that foreign workers agree to, so such a program makes sense to me. Maybe if we eliminated the generous unemployment benefits and welfare, Americans might get hungry enough to actually work.

What say all of you here in the Political forum?

I agree to this extent: Several decades ago, when I was in my early 30s, a coworker kept nagging me to take him to an orange grove so he could pick oranges. (He didn't have a car.) Eventually, I gave in and decided I would try it myself, as a means to earn some extra money.

I was in good physical condition but couldn't believe how difficult it was. No one will ever know unless they try it themselves. That's why I have to laugh when I hear talk-show hosts run off at the mouth about how Americans would/could do it. I don't believe the average American would be able to do it.

This is for several reasons: For example, the ladders they provide are not light weight aluminum. They are made of rough cut heavy timber to make sure that no one would ever want to steal one. These ladders are very tall and heavy and need to be moved frequently. And it's quite a balancing act trying to move from one tree to another without toppling over.

Then try filling up a bushel bag that's hung around your neck while up on the ladder. Think it's easy? Go try it! And walking up and down a ladder, with a heavy weight hung around your neck, isn't exactly easy on your feet.

In order to get your money, you have to fill up a BIG (heavy plastic) container. You get paid by the container which holds a bazillion bushels. And one container doesn't pay all that much. I don't remember exactly what it worked out to but I think you'd be lucky to get about .50 cents per bushell at the time.

Picking oranges in Florida is NOT a job for the average American.

[Guest]

Picking oranges in Florida is NOT a job for the average American.

What a crock. If you are out of work and need money, then pick oranges, clean toilets, do what is necessary, besides having the government give you money, food stamps and whatever else so that you don't have to work. So far all we have done is teach people that they don't have to work to get what they want. Time to stop that and get back to making your own way without taking what I have worked for. You bet, I have, never picked oranges, but have topped a lot of corn, cleaned buidings and done whatever as a first or second job to make ends meet. Get off your dead beat a** and help yourself.

[Guest]

Jumping right into picking oranges would be tough for the "average" american. Maybe some of the fitter ones could have a go at it. The grove owners probably don't have time for farting around. Perhaps flipping burgers, washing dishes, floating concrete, busing tables, truck driving or whatever would be better. If they are not to high to function.

[Guest]

What is wrong with enforcing the laws of the land that are currently on the books regarding the process for legal immigration into the USA?

Why is it selective? If one is coming across the Atlantic they must follow the laws of the land to get in. Imagine, having to wait, standing in line to show paperwork before being allowed to enter. Even coming from Canada?

So why are so many Americans working so hard at trying to figure out how to deal with "ILLEGAL" immigrants?

So why all the duress over an issue that already has a solution? Because of the politics!! It is as simple as that. This is what we get when it becomes questionable whether to do what is right.

Follow the law like those coming across all our other borders. Just like we all have to do when we go to Mexico or any other civilized country.

Is it any wonder why other countries are always ready to try us on? When they see the law is applied sometimes and other times not.

Totally ridiculous side stepping the real underlying issues for the sake of a few spine less politicians.

btk

This is a convenient fantasy. We are talking about over 11 million people here. The effort to root them out and deport them all would be the most disruptive, costly disaster you could imagine. And because it would rip families and communities apart it would the 21st century version of the Civil War.

And btw ... that guy you detest, who has shown absolutely no leadership and has yet to do one constructive thing... he has presided over the deportation of almost 300,000 illegal immigrants in the last three years, far more than any previous President in history.

[Guest]

This is a convenient fantasy. We are talking about over 11 million people here. The effort to root them out and deport them all would be the most disruptive, costly disaster you could imagine. And because it would rip families and communities apart it would the 21st century version of the Civil War.

And btw ... that guy you detest, who has shown absolutely no leadership and has yet to do one constructive thing... he has presided over the deportation of almost 300,000 illegal immigrants in the last three years, far more than any previous President in history.

Stop paying Americans NOT TO WORK and they will do the jobs done by these folks and they will return home on their own.

[Guest]

Stop paying Americans NOT TO WORK and they will do the jobs done by these folks and they will return home on their own.

I agree. Drug test them also before they collect unemployment and disability.

[Guest]

I agree. Drug test them also before they collect unemployment and disability.

They tried that in Florida before the courts put a stop to it, and guess how many tested positive - 2%, much less than 8% of the general population that uses drugs.