Dugger Miscarriage

[The Village Girl]

OK so someone started to post this earlier. I think it's an interesting topic,

http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/14/10401084-duggars-talk-about-their-miscarriage-next-pregnancy

Could you consider having that many children? Even if you could afford it?

Do you think you can give the time needed to your children if you had that many?

Do you think they are raising these children, or are their children raising these children?

How many children are enough?

[CarolSells]

I used to have a sign on my fridge that said, "You can't scare me I had teenagers!".

I did raise two wonderful sons, albeit as a single parent, which is a bit different but I honestly don't know how they do it! Maybe having so many is actually less dramatic.

To each his own, of course, but I worry about the long term effects on these children of these reality shows. And the recently posted photos of their stillborn child (although clearly none of my business) is slightly disturbing because it seems like some things deserve a bit of dignity and privacy.

But I'm not always in step, wrinklie that I am. :ohdear:

[momesu]

I used to have a sign on my fridge that said, "You can't scare me I had teenagers!".

I did raise two wonderful sons, albeit as a single parent, which is a bit different but I honestly don't know how they do it! Maybe having so many is actually less dramatic.

To each his own, of course, but I worry about the long term effects on these children of these reality shows. And the recently posted photos of their stillborn child (although clearly none of my business) is slightly disturbing because it seems like some things deserve a bit of dignity and privacy.

But I'm not always in step, wrinklie that I am. :ohdear:

Agreed! I raised 3 and that was plenty for me. At that point their father and I were out numbered......

I feel for anyone that suffers a miscarriage as my first pregnancy ended in one and it is not easy to deal with the emotions that come it losing a child. I can't even imagine posting pictures of the lost child for strangers to gawk at. That is beyond my comprehension. For me that would reduce the child to a thing not a precious loved and lost baby.

Suzanne

[jane032657]

I raised three university educated, professional, children of my own, much of the time as a single mom. I also fostered 55 special needs and high risk children over a time period of 12 years, inclusive of children with autism, severe behavior, drug addicted, invovled in the sex trade, and children from abusive homes.

What I have seen is that there is a wide range of capacity among parents, no matter how many children. And many children means that other children carry responisbility, there is no way around it. There are pros and cons, but I think if there is love in the heart of parents and enough abillity financially, emotionally, physically and personally, then that is what the deciding factor is, for one or ten children. We do not get to choose what type of family we are born into, but parents should make the choice of what type of life they are going to offer to their children, before they have them. And future parents need to be open to the fact that children come with different personalities, needs, and challenges, and one better be prepared to meet those challenges because those children are your children and they need all the love and support you have to give.

There is no one answer, but I do think looking at your own capacity to give life to or to take on children through fostering or adoption is critical so that you are prepared for what being a parent entails forever. It is the hardest job, the most rewarding job, the most important job and requires no training, certification, classes, preparation, or pre qualification. Giving life is easy, maintaining and nurturing the life of a child is a never ending responsibility.

[CarolSells]

I raised three university educated, professional, children of my own, much of the time as a single mom. I also fostered 55 special needs and high risk children over a time period of 12 years, inclusive of children with autism, severe behavior, drug addicted, invovled in the sex trade, and children from abusive homes.

What I have seen is that there is a wide range of capacity among parents, no matter how many children. And many children means that other children carry responisbility, there is no way around it. There are pros and cons, but I think if there is love in the heart of parents and enough abillity financially, emotionally, physically and personally, then that is what the deciding factor is, for one or ten children. We do not get to choose what type of family we are born into, but parents should make the choice of what type of life they are going to offer to their children, before they have them. And future parents need to be open to the fact that children come with different personalities, needs, and challenges, and one better be prepared to meet those challenges because those children are your children and they need all the love and support you have to give.

There is no one answer, but I do think looking at your own capacity to give life to or to take on children through fostering or adoption is critical so that you are prepared for what being a parent entails forever. It is the hardest job, the most rewarding job, the most important job and requires no training, certification, classes, preparation, or pre qualification. Giving life is easy, maintaining and nurturing the life of a child is a never ending responsibility.

Thank you so much for your lovely post and for all of the love and nurturing that you gave all of these children. They were all certainly lucky to have had you in their lives. My hat is certainly off to you.

[ilovetv]

I think this reality show stuff is sick. It seems to bring out the worst in people.....like an insatiable appetite for attention, and idolatry.

God commands, "thou shalt have no other gods before me". Sometimes people construct other types of "golden calves" that they put first in their lives.....like money, power, drugs/alcohol, celebrity status, and power to reproduce.

[BostonCelt]

I raised three university educated, professional, children of my own, much of the time as a single mom. I also fostered 55 special needs and high risk children over a time period of 12 years, inclusive of children with autism, severe behavior, drug addicted, invovled in the sex trade, and children from abusive homes.....

NowTHAT'S a hero, folks......IMHO....

[jblum315]

Whatever became of OctoMom?

[Happinow]

Jane, you are a wonderful woman! Bless you. I had one healthy child, a girl, 21 years ago. I knew right after I had her that one was enough. (I can still recall the 36 hours of labor) I love her with everything I am and am grateful to have experienced motherhood. For me, I can't imagine any more than one child. When I bundle all of the joy, headache, heartache, sleepless nights, teenage years and adolescence, i'm glad for just one. Nobody can take those years away from me and I wouldn't trade them for anything, but it was enough for me. As for the Duggars, I think it's wrong to sensationalize having 21 children. Although it seems to work for them, I keep thinking about all women who can't have children and then go back to the Duggars with 21. I think they have about 18 kids many. Just my opinion, I'm not right nor am I wrong.

[graciegirl]

I personally could not handle that many children and I think that if I had more than four I would not be taking REALLY good care of them. I worry too much, I am too perfectionistic and would make my children and myself crazy.(We had two and the second one had a number of serious health issues) Henry was involved in his job and was away a goodly amount of time when the children were small and the raising of them was put in my hands most of the time.

I think that the Duggars are true to their beliefs and there are a good number of people that believe as they do. I am a Catholic and in years past, many Catholics had really large families and felt it was right to do so.

Whether it is the best situation for a child or for a family depends on the folks who make up that family and their ability to handle all of the challenges and problems and opportunities that raising a large family entail, not the least of which is to feed and clothe and educate them.

I love children very much and have very high expections for doing a good job at parenting. I couldn't do it. The children would be short changed if I was the mother of 19, although I am sure I would love every one of them.

It takes a lot more than love.

[Barefoot]

I raised three university educated, professional, children of my own, much of the time as a single mom. I also fostered 55 special needs and high risk children over a time period of 12 years, inclusive of children with autism, severe behavior, drug addicted, invovled in the sex trade, and children from abusive homes.

What I have seen is that there is a wide range of capacity among parents, no matter how many children. And many children means that other children carry responisbility, there is no way around it. There are pros and cons, but I think if there is love in the heart of parents and enough abillity financially, emotionally, physically and personally, then that is what the deciding factor is, for one or ten children. We do not get to choose what type of family we are born into, but parents should make the choice of what type of life they are going to offer to their children, before they have them. And future parents need to be open to the fact that children come with different personalities,
needs, and challenges, and one better be prepared to meet those challenges because those children are your children and they need all the love and
support you have to give.

There is no one answer, but I do think looking at your own capacity to give life to or to take on children through fostering or adoption is critical so that you
are prepared for what being a parent entails forever. It is the hardest job, the most rewarding job, the most important job and requires no training,
certification, classes, preparation, or pre qualification. Giving life is easy, maintaining and nurturing the life of a child is a never ending
responsibility.

Jane, you are a very good person. I admire you. :ho:

[jane032657]

Thanks for your kind comments. Really the purpose of my post was to say that children bring challenges and anyone thinking about having one, ten or beyond my understanding, nineteen, need to be prepared to lovingly address the needs that their children will have. And heaven knows all children bring suprises! Wonderful and sometimes, well, not what was in our picture of parenthood. Most of the children I fostered came from homes that could not provide the initial nurturing the children needed, let alone the oppositional behavior that developed later; or the behaviors and special needs that overtook their lives; or they could not face up to the early violations their children experienced and later acted out on. Sometimes I think having unusually large number of children becomes like an addition, trying to fulfill an empty spot in someone's being that never does get fulfilled until they face why the emptiness is there.
One of the best stories I have is when the parents robbed a bank in Alberta, then came into British Columbia and were arrested. They had their four year old son with them. When the child was brought to our home, at Easter weekend, he had all new clothes, toys and a backback...at least they shared their heist and ensured their son was well dressed before coming into foster care.:coolsmiley:

[DaleMN]

Simply put....they are idiots. :ohdear:

[The Village Girl]

Simply put....they are idiots. :ohdear:


And.... we've got a winner!!!! :clap2::clap2::clap2:

I don't know if it's "they" as much as her! I don't hear him say too much.

But someone needs to get a grip!!!!

She says the whole family wants more children. All of them? Every child? Really? For those of us who have raised children, you know how hard it is to get two children to agree on breakfast much less another child!

I love dogs, but if I had 20 dogs in my home, someone would come and take them out of the home! And, I think God wants me to have those dogs!

Can someone say, BATS@#T CRAZY????

[BostonCelt]

And.... we've got a winner!!!! :clap2::clap2::clap2:

I don't know if it's "they" as much as her! I don't hear him say too much.

But someone needs to get a grip!!!!

She says the whole family wants more children. All of them? Every child? Really? For those of us who have raised children, you know how hard it is to get two children to agree on breakfast much less another child!

I love dogs, but if I had 20 dogs in my home, someone would come and take them out of the home! And, I think God wants me to have those dogs!

Can someone say, BATS@#T CRAZY????

I've never seen the show...and probably won't....so I don't know....but what if they're raising good, happy, healthy future productive members of society, should we hang them anyway? Or just stay with judgmental namecalling?

Just curious...

[The Village Girl]

I've never seen the show...and probably won't....so I don't know....but what if they're raising good, happy, healthy future productive members of society, should we hang them anyway? Or just stay with judgmental namecalling?

Just curious...


Naw, I don't want to hang them. The judgmental name calling is enough for me! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

So... this now leads me to the question... Do you think this is normal?

[BostonCelt]

Naw, I don't want to hang them. The judgmental name calling is enough for me! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

So... this now leads me to the question... Do you think this is normal?

Define "normal". Not "average", but "normal". Is one kid normal? Four? None? 2.1?? Is marriage normal? Single? Two, three, four marriages? Divorce? Same sex marriage? Homosexuality? On and on...... Who get to say? And then what for the "abnormal"?

[The Village Girl]

Define "normal". Not "average", but "normal". Is one kid normal? Four? None? 2.1?? Is marriage normal? Single? Two, three, four marriages? Divorce? Same sex marriage? Homosexuality? On and on...... Who get to say? And then what for the "abnormal"?

Not fair! I answered your question and then asked a question. You didn't answer my question... You just skipped a step and asked! You can't skip a step! You have to play the game right!

Do you think 22 children is normal? 20 live and two dead. The doctors say she takes a risk trying to have more and most likely won't carry and still they continue to try to have them. Because, God is giving them to them as a blessing. She posted pictures of her dead baby on the internet. Normal or not?

Wait! You are right! Normal is not the right word. Substitute "normal" for "sane". Now, let's start again. Is she sane? I say NOT!

[BostonCelt]

Not fair!..... Now, let's start again. Is she sane? I say NOT!

LOL! "Sane"?? Ooooooh, nooooo....now we're ALL in trouble!! LOL

[The Village Girl]

LOL! "Sane"?? Ooooooh, nooooo....now we're ALL in trouble!! LOL

OK... right again!!!!

I agree with you that she isn't hurting anyone. I agree that, from what I can see, the children appear to be good kids. Even if one turns out to be an ax murderer... she has still beat the odds.

From what I have read they are paying for the children from money they make and take no assistance from the government. Except now they have a show.

For some strange reason I find this woman troubled? I question he mental health. I don't know what he thinks as she appears to be the spokesperson for the family.

Someone brought this up in another thread and then removed it for fear of "offending" and I thought/think it's a good topic.

To be honest, I think EVERYONE has made good points!

Do you think SHE is raising these children, or are the older children raising the younger children?

[ilovetv]

This seems like addictive behavior.

And t.v. and internet AND the money GREEDY producers keep on exploiting and exalting addictive behaviors, making it seem within the norm when it's risky, selfish and destructive.

[Golfingnut]

This seems like addictive behavior.

And t.v. and internet AND the money GREEDY producers keep on exploiting and exalting addictive behaviors, making it seem within the norm when it's risky, selfish and destructive.

I am with you. This shows signs of OCD. Its like drinking, if you drink in moderation, it may even have beneficial aspects to it. Kids in moderation should be somewhere between 1 and 4. Just my humble opinion don't ya know

[ceejay]

Someone brought this up in another thread and then removed it for fear of "offending" and I thought/think it's a good topic.

I thought the title of the original post was offensive...not the Duggars or the topic itself.

Please...continue the conversation! :)

[BostonCelt]

...Kids in moderation should be somewhere between 1 and 4.....

"...between 1 and 4...."

I forgot....is that "normal" or "sane"???

Personally, I think all kids, whether it's one or twenty, should be born at the age of 18 and immediately have to spend 4 years in the Army before being allowed in the house....

[BostonCelt]

....Do you think SHE is raising these children, or are the older children raising the younger children?

Don't know, don't care. Hell, I don't know half the things MY kids are doing, much less hers. And half the stuff I DO know about mine is none of my business, it seems...

Seriously, best I know the older kids seem to be the products of positive discipline so someone's been in charge. I'll bet it's been, and still is, Mom and Dad....

[The Village Girl]

[/QUOTE]This seems like addictive behavior.

And t.v. and internet AND the money GREEDY producers keep on exploiting and exalting addictive behaviors, making it seem within the norm when it's risky, selfish and destructive.

Now that you mention it.... It does seem addictive. I've heard there are women who LOVE to have "babies". Maybe she is one of them.

I wonder if there is a 12 step program for this addiction.

I thought the title of the original post was offensive...not the Duggars or the topic itself.

Please...continue the conversation! :)

Of course ceejay. I did know that, and the title was questionable. But I did think this was a great "hot topic".

"...between 1 and 4...."

I forgot....is that "normal" or "sane"???

So you did raise kids! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:



Personally, I think all kids, whether it's one or twenty, should be born at the age of 18 and immediately have to spend 4 years in the Army before being allowed in the house....




OK... for me... 1 is too many. Did I say that outloud? Not to mention, I support retroactive abortion. If you can abort before they are born, I see no reason to stop there! Abort at 16!!!


Don't know, don't care. Hell, I don't know half the things MY kids are doing, much less hers. And half the stuff I DO know about mine is none of my business, it seems...

Seriously, best I know the older kids seem to be the products of positive discipline so someone's been in charge. I'll bet it's been, and still is, Mom and Dad....

Honestly, I think it becomes someone's business when they put it out to the world. If you want someone to "mind their own business" shouldn't you mind your own? By that I mean to not share it with the world?

Now, to on of my thoughts. If the older children are raising the younger children. What kind of a life do they have? Does it make them more responsible or do they miss their childhood? Wouldn't buying a dog do the same thing?

[The Village Girl]

I still think she's BATS@#T crazy!!!

[BostonCelt]

Not to mention, I support retroactive abortion.

Now, to on of my thoughts. If the older children are raising the younger children. What kind of a life do they have? Does it make them more responsible or do they miss their childhood? Wouldn't buying a dog do the same thing?[/QUOTE]

You're for retroactive abortion at 16....and repeatedly comparing having kids with having dogs....and you think it's your business to be concerned about the life of her kids because, as young adults, they help around the house with younger siblings??? Did I miss something?

[The Village Girl]

You're for retroactive abortion at 16....and repeatedly comparing having kids with having dogs....and you think it's your business to be concerned about the life of her kids because, as young adults, they help around the house with younger siblings??? Did I miss something?

When you put it THAT way it sound so tawdry!!!!

But... Yes! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

OK... Yes to retroactive abortion!

One hand = 22 children Other hand = dog Yep, that's where my mind goes!

Actually, I'm not sure it's anyone's business! But they put it out there and like a rubber necker, we can't help but look! Keep in mind that I have never seen their "reality" TV show.

Helping around the house with young siblings and 20 children? That's where it could be other peoples business. How much do they have to "help" to make it work? My question is, how much do they have to "help"? Do they have a "normal" childhood?

BTW, I'm asking the questions around here! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

[BostonCelt]

BTW, I'm asking the questions around here! :1rotfl::1rotfl::1rotfl:

LOL! And two thumbs up for Honesty!!
Keep up the good work!

[2BNTV]

I raised three university educated, professional, children of my own, much of the time as a single mom. I also fostered 55 special needs and high risk children over a time period of 12 years, inclusive of children with autism, severe behavior, drug addicted, invovled in the sex trade, and children from abusive homes.

What I have seen is that there is a wide range of capacity among parents, no matter how many children. And many children means that other children carry responisbility, there is no way around it. There are pros and cons, but I think if there is love in the heart of parents and enough abillity financially, emotionally, physically and personally, then that is what the deciding factor is, for one or ten children. We do not get to choose what type of family we are born into, but parents should make the choice of what type of life they are going to offer to their children, before they have them. And future parents need to be open to the fact that children come with different personalities, needs, and challenges, and one better be prepared to meet those challenges because those children are your children and they need all the love and support you have to give.

There is no one answer, but I do think looking at your own capacity to give life to or to take on children through fostering or adoption is critical so that you are prepared for what being a parent entails forever. It is the hardest job, the most rewarding job, the most important job and requires no training, certification, classes, preparation, or pre qualification. Giving life is easy, maintaining and nurturing the life of a child is a never ending responsibility.

Great Post. Eloquent.

[janmcn]

Perhaps the miscarriage was God's way of saying enough is enough.

[BostonCelt]

Perhaps the miscarriage was God's way of saying enough is enough.

Could be....guess we'll never know....but if so, all the normal healthy pregnancies/deliveries would then be God's way of saying........what?

(Probably not a place we want to go with this thread......)

[BritParrothead]

Perhaps the miscarriage was God's way of saying enough is enough.

Just thinking the same thing. Still a sad thing to happen to anyone.