long term care insurance....advice?

[cquick]

My husband and I are thinking about purchasing Long Term Care Insurance. Does anyone have a policy they like? Or can recommend an insurance carrier?

Thanks, I don't plan to use it soon! but I like to be prepared!

[borjo]

John Hancock is who we have had for the past 8-10 years. My husband's premium went up one time in that period. It's one of the big LTC insurers.

[BostonCelt]

John Hancock is who we have....

John Hancock also. With whomever you go, try to go through a group or organization (such as your insurance co, or employment...) rather than just one-on-one with the LTC provider. You'll do better. Mine is through my insurance, USAA.

First, though, determine if you really need it, if now is the right time, and what you need or want. What you'll actually be doing is "insuring" your estate so it can be passed on to the heirs of your choice, rather than used up on nursing homes etc. In other words, you don't benefit, your heirs do. So make them pay the premiums!! Good luck!

[jane032657]

Boston Celt My husband is a CPA and that is what he tells his clients. Have your kids pay for their long term care insurance. They are protecting their inheritence.

Now having said that, as our kids are still late 20's and younger, we are paying for ours. We have Blue Cross through the CPA Association which is long term care insurance which would give you higher end assisted living when you might need it.

I used to be the Executive Director of a Sunrise Senior Living Assisted Living and Memory Care community. At minimum, you need a policy at today's market value that would pay about $6000 a month per person for assisted living and closrer to $9000 minimum if it is memory care. I know the industry very well, I have actually opened two new assisted livings and staffed them and ramped them up with residents. They charge for everything, aside from meals, the care you would need, which is when you use your long term care, is VERY expensive. You cannot use long term care policies until you have a need to have help with a minimum of three activities of daily living such as dressing, feeding, bathing, walking. Just so those who do not understand what it is get a picture of when you can use it.

[rjm1cc]

My husband and I are thinking about purchasing Long Term Care Insurance. Does anyone have a policy they like? Or can recommend an insurance carrier?

Thanks, I don't plan to use it soon! but I like to be prepared!
If you can aford it yes. You might get minimium coverage with the idea of paying part of the cost yourself and the rest with insurance.
There are relatively new policies that combine life insurance and long term care insurance. Ask arround as these might be of interest.

[cquick]

John Hancock also. With whomever you go, try to go through a group or organization (such as your insurance co, or employment...) rather than just one-on-one with the LTC provider. You'll do better. Mine is through my insurance, USAA.

First, though, determine if you really need it, if now is the right time, and what you need or want. What you'll actually be doing is "insuring" your estate so it can be passed on to the heirs of your choice, rather than used up on nursing homes etc. In other words, you don't benefit, your heirs do. So make them pay the premiums!! Good luck!

oh, what a good idea....make my son pay the premiums....RIIIGHT, like that's gonna happen! :a040::a040::a040::a040::a040:

[cquick]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I really appreciate it!

[RichieB]

In other words, you don't benefit, your heirs do. So make them pay the premiums!! Good luck!

Yeah, good luck is right !

We had whole life policies on each of our kids, and transferred the policies to them once they became of age, and had serious jobs. What did they do ? Cashed in the policies for the cash value. - GONE - !!

You can always tell a kid - but you can't tell him/her much !

[BostonCelt]

oh, what a good idea....make my son pay the premiums....RIIIGHT, like that's gonna happen! :a040::a040::a040::a040::a040:

Motivate him! Like, tell him he's out of the will. Tell him about your new heirs. Have fun with it! lol

[2BNTV]

I always say, "you can't tell someone anything but you can inform them". :)

Always good to give people options and hope they make the right decision.

[RichieB]

oh, what a good idea....make my son pay the premiums....RIIIGHT, like that's gonna happen! :a040::a040::a040::a040::a040:

:laugh: :agree:

[buzzy]

Another John Hancock customer here. We took out the policies at ages 62 & 60, two years before retirement. We don't have heirs, but this is a hedge against the surviving spouse getting wiped out.

When shopping, get several quotes for identical coverage. We did better with Hancock than my employer's group plan with Met Life, primarily because the group plan had fewer coverage options. We stayed away from smaller insurers.

[BostonCelt]

Yeah, good luck is right !

We had whole life policies on each of our kids, and transferred the policies to them once they became of age, and had serious jobs. What did they do ? Cashed in the policies for the cash value. - GONE - !!

You can always tell a kid - but you can't tell him/her much !

There's a whole school of thought out there that life insurance is an expense of living rather than a worthwhile investment vehicle, so that expense should be met as inexpensively as possible, namely, term, and that your investment dollars could do better elsewhere. Also, that if no one is financially dependent on you, you don't need life insurance.

Sounds like your kids went to that school.....

[ijusluvit]

I've just spent 3 months studying this topic. A broker we worked with found the best policy for us, one which pays cash direct to us monthly, once we qualify, and does not require us to continue to fill out forms to continue to receive benefits. The benefits are not restricted to a specific kind of care, such as home care, assisted living, etc. They are simply cash payments (hooray). Mutual of Omaha had the best of this type of policy.

[RichieB]

Sounds like your kids went to that school.....

I've heard it said on many occasions that the children of Baby Boomers are part of the "I want it ....... NOW" generation.

I've found that to be true.

[aljetmet]

:laugh: :agree:

I really don't want my grand kids to starve. I have an American Express credit card that pays 2 %. I send the money to the grand kids 529 accounts.

I guess we can sell our TV house and use the funds for long term care or use a reverse mortgage. Both my wife and I have pre-existing conditions that preclude us from getting long term care insurance (I think) I'll have to inquire again, just to make sure.

[Hal :-)]

John Hancock here too. My parents had 4 Yr LTC policies. Older plans with no COLA. Mom spent over 7 years in nursing home. Dad paid more than half the cost during the first 4 years. Then had to "spend down", paying all the costs. He passed with esophageal cancer and only a couple weeks in a nursing home. A lot of years of premiums for little benefit.

You'd think that would turn me off to LTC. But I still bought it. Two reasons. Flexibility - Dad wasn't happy with Mom's first home. Being private pay he easily moved her elsewhere. Secondly, I purchased a "Partnership" policy in NY. My assets are 100% protected. I don't believe this is available anymore. Partnership plans now only protect assets to the extent of coverage.

I recall the theory was you don't need LTC until you have a certain net worth, say 200K. And if you have a high net worth, say more than 800K, you can consider self-insuring. Like all insurance, there's a good chance you'll never get a return on your investment.

BTW, LTC protects assets for the kids and if you make the premiums, you are essentially taking it from their inheritance.

[RichieB]

I really don't want my grand kids to starve. I have an American Express credit card that pays 2 %. I send the money to the grand kids 529 accounts.

I guess we can sell our TV house and use the funds for long term care or use a reverse mortgage. Both my wife and I have pre-existing conditions that preclude us from getting long term care insurance (I think) I'll have to inquire again, just to make sure.

I don't want my kids or grandkids to starve either. Your AE card paying the 2% is a totally different issue, IMO. We've learned the hard way, and informed our kids that the Bank of Mom and Dad has closed. We have helped them out, but we cannot fund their everyday living. Sometimes they forget that their mother has a chronic illness which needs quite a bit of financial attention from time to time. At mention of this, their jaws drop in silence ! Hello !!

My wife wanted to get LTC and we investigated several plans through several companies. The general consensus was that LTC premiums were geared to providing benefits for 3 years in a nursing home. It is EASY to outlive these benefits ! Then what ?!!

also, you have to be careful in dealing with insurance people. Sometimes they do not have your best interests at heart - they have their own - in the form of COMMISSIONS !! Many sell you a policy that will take care of THEM and pay the highest commission. I learned this one the hard way, too.

In the end, bottom line, BE CAREFUL.


:spoken: This was a form of venting for me, and I feel better !

[CaptJohn]

Very interesting discussion. I have enjoyed everyone's input. Good food for thought. Thanks.

[BostonCelt]

....My wife wanted to get LTC and we investigated several plans through several companies. The general consensus was that LTC premiums were geared to providing benefits for 3 years in a nursing home. It is EASY to outlive these benefits ! Then what ?!!

also, you have to be careful in dealing with insurance people. Sometimes they do not have your best interests at heart - they have their own - in the form of COMMISSIONS !! Many sell you a policy that will take care of THEM and pay the highest commission. I learned this one the hard way, too.

In the end, bottom line, BE CAREFUL.

A couple of big, big points there.

When it comes to insurance companies it's all about statistics, actuarial tables, and commissions. They are not public service, their purpose is to take your money out of your pockets and put it in theirs for the benefit of their investors (which could be you and me maybe!)

Always, ALWAYS ask the broker how he's to get paid. If his income depends on your financial decisions, be careful. If he's paid whether or not you sign up, you're obviously safer. That's why annuities are always a no-no to me.....the salesperson (he's NOT a financial advisor, he's a SALESPERSON!) gets 8.5% commission the minute you sign so, tell me, whose financial interest does he really have in mind?

[LisaJ]

Thank you for this post!!! Hubby and I are currently researching long term care and trying to decide what to do. Does anyone have any advice on putting your assets in a trust? I'm told if your assets are in a trust they can't touch your assets??? Not sure how reliable this information is and would love to hear other opinions.

[RichieB]

A couple of big, big points there.

When it comes to insurance companies it's all about statistics, actuarial tables, and commissions. They are not public service, their purpose is to take your money out of your pockets and put it in theirs for the benefit of their investors (which could be you and me maybe!)

Always, ALWAYS ask the broker how he's to get paid. If his income depends on your financial decisions, be careful. If he's paid whether or not you sign up, you're obviously safer. That's why annuities are always a no-no to me.....the salesperson (he's NOT a financial advisor, he's a SALESPERSON!) gets 8.5% commission the minute you sign so, tell me, whose financial interest does he really have in mind?


:agree:

well spoken !

[BostonCelt]

Thank you for this post!!! Hubby and I are currently researching long term care and trying to decide what to do. Does anyone have any advice on putting your assets in a trust? I'm told if your assets are in a trust they can't touch your assets??? Not sure how reliable this information is and would love to hear other opinions.

An awful lot of personal circumstances involved there so, no matter what you hear, don't minimize the value of a good Estate Planning/Medicare/Medicaid attorney. Money well spent.....

[aljetmet]

I don't want my kids or grandkids to starve either. Your AE card paying the 2% is a totally different issue, IMO. We've learned the hard way, and informed our kids that the Bank of Mom and Dad has closed. We have helped them out, but we cannot fund their everyday living. Sometimes they forget that their mother has a chronic illness which needs quite a bit of financial attention from time to time. At mention of this, their jaws drop in silence ! Hello !!

My wife wanted to get LTC and we investigated several plans through several companies. The general consensus was that LTC premiums were geared to providing benefits for 3 years in a nursing home. It is EASY to outlive these benefits ! Then what ?!!

also, you have to be careful in dealing with insurance people. Sometimes they do not have your best interests at heart - they have their own - in the form of COMMISSIONS !! Many sell you a policy that will take care of THEM and pay the highest commission. I learned this one the hard way, too.

In the end, bottom line, BE CAREFUL.


:spoken: This was a form of venting for me, and I feel better !

My remarks were sort of tongue in sheet expressing that we ( retirees) give money to our kids and grand kids and not the other way around.

[Hal :-)]

...... That's why annuities are always a no-no to me.....

Commonly stated, Annuities are Sold, not Bought.

[RichieB]

My remarks were sort of tongue in sheet expressing that we ( retirees) give money to our kids and grand kids and not the other way around.

It's hard to tell, from behind the keyboard. I understand what you said.

Having said that, I stand by my comments. I mentioned that the current generation of parents are the "I want it now" generation.

Respectfully submitted......

[Hal :-)]

Thank you for this post!!! Hubby and I are currently researching long term care and trying to decide what to do. Does anyone have any advice on putting your assets in a trust? I'm told if your assets are in a trust they can't touch your assets??? Not sure how reliable this information is and would love to hear other opinions.

Thar's a very good question. To protect assets from Medicaid I think you have to completely give up control, i.e. non-revocable trust. This is different from a Living Trust, which does little more than avoid probate.

I have meticulously defined beneficiaries on financial assets which trumps a Will. My homes are the only major asset hanging free and I keep hoping for legislation to allow Beneficiary Deeds in my states. I'll keep hoping, maybe some day.

[Midge538]

My homes are the only major asset hanging free and I keep hoping for legislation to allow Beneficiary Deeds in my states. I'll keep hoping, maybe some day.

For real estate, quit claim deeds could be drawn and in Florida a beneficiary deed can be executed.

[Hal :-)]

For real estate, quit claim deeds could be drawn and in Florida a beneficiary deed can be executed.

I'm not ready to turn over my property with a quit claim. And a Google search (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-avoiding-probate-32070.html) says that Florida does not allow real estate to be transferred with a transfer-on-death deed, which is what I meant by beneficiary deed. But hopefully someday. Some states have made it available and I assume it'll spread.

[NJblue]

For those who have LTC insurance, what safeguards are there that the premiums won't rise to the point that they are unaffordable or at least so high that had you known that they would have become so high you never would have purchased the policy? My fear with policies of this sort is that you could pay the premiums for 20 years without missing a single one, but at some point the premiums may become so high that you decide to give it up - and watch all of your premiums paid go down the drain. The insurance companies know that you are loathe to watch this happen and hence are fairly free to raise your rate to whatever they want and the captive market will have little recourse but to pay up.

[maybesomeday]

We choose policies from Northwestern Mutual Life (NML). There were several things we liked about these policies
1. Because both spouses bought policies after 7 years of paying premiums if one spouse passes away the survivors policy is "paid up" with no more premiums due.
2. The daily benefit we choose does rise each year and the premium rises by the same percentage. In our case both rise by 5%. We can stop this increase at any time and the premium will also stop increasing. Yes, it will get very expensive but predictably so.
3. If we decide that we no longer can or wish to pay any more premiums the policy freezes and all the money we have paid in is available as a benefit.
The big financial risk is really for the healthy spouse. A single person may be ok with watching the assets get spent, but if one spouse is in LTC situation the other still needs to live.
Having watched how quickly money goes when someone requires long term care we feel this is a good investment.

[BostonCelt]

For those who have LTC insurance, what safeguards are there that the premiums won't rise to the point that they are unaffordable or at least so high that had you known that they would have become so high you never would have purchased the policy? My fear with policies of this sort is that you could pay the premiums for 20 years without missing a single one, but at some point the premiums may become so high that you decide to give it up - and watch all of your premiums paid go down the drain. The insurance companies know that you are loathe to watch this happen and hence are fairly free to raise your rate to whatever they want and the captive market will have little recourse but to pay up.

They'd be slitting their own throats, wouldn't they? Sure, they make a profit from current policyholders but they make the big bucks from selling lots and lots of future policies for a long time. If they raise premiums to the unaffordable level, that would pretty much close the doors, wouldn't it? Where's their future?

[Hal :-)]

For those who have LTC insurance, what safeguards are there that the premiums won't rise to the point that they are unaffordable or at least so high that had you known that they would have become so high you never would have purchased the policy? My fear with policies of this sort is that you could pay the premiums for 20 years without missing a single one, but at some point the premiums may become so high that you decide to give it up - and watch all of your premiums paid go down the drain. The insurance companies know that you are loathe to watch this happen and hence are fairly free to raise your rate to whatever they want and the captive market will have little recourse but to pay up.

Your concerns are valid. A major reason I went with Hancock was they had been in the business a long time and never had a premium increase. They can only increase rates with approval and it must be for an entire class (I'm not completely clear how a class is defined). A year or so ago, Hancock requested an large increase (40% ?). My renewal in Nov didn't change but I don't know about next time.

When I bought, long term affordability was obviously a consideration. And I assumed they had enough experience to set premiums properly. Surprise, they screw up and the customer pays.

Basically, it sucks that they can go back on a legal agreement. It's a one sided contract. But that's the system. It's like those credit card updates you get in the mail all the time. You signed a contract but they keep sending new fine print every time they want to change terms. It's a joke.

[Floridagal]

My husband and I have Long Term Health Insurance since we were 52 years of age and we are almost 70 now and it has not gone up one penny. When I had hip replacement surgery many years ago they were going to send over a nurse to help me for awhile ant no charge, but I was doing good and rejected it. I think it is a good policy to have as you'll never know when you will need it. By our taking it out before 55 years of age we got a great premium and the company is very nice to deal with.

[Midge538]

I'm not ready to turn over my property with a quit claim. And a Google search (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/florida-avoiding-probate-32070.html) says that Florida does not allow real estate to be transferred with a transfer-on-death deed, which is what I meant by beneficiary deed. But hopefully someday. Some states have made it available and I assume it'll spread.

Hal ... The 'Florida Enhanced Life Estate Deed' is available and leaves full control of the residence to the occupant until one passes .. ergo, the home could be sold, gifted etc. It also insulates one from possible outside claims against the named beneficiaries ..... these are very liberal clauses and fairly unique to Florida. It also protects the homestead from the probate process. However, Florida must be your 'homestead, ' so if you have a declared homestead in another state you would not be qualified. For most of us full time residents, a 'Florida Enhanced Life Estate Deed' is a valuable document to consider; it provides for the future but surrenders nothing. M

[Midge538]

Hal ... The 'Florida Enhanced Life Estate Deed' is available and leaves full control of the residence to the occupant until one passes .. ergo, the home could be sold, gifted etc. It also insulates one from possible outside claims against the named beneficiaries ..... these are very liberal clauses and fairly unique to Florida. It also protects the homestead from the probate process. However, Florida must be your 'homestead, ' so if you have a declared homestead in another state you would not be qualified. For most of us full time residents, a 'Florida Enhanced Life Estate Deed' is a valuable document to consider; it provides for the future but surrenders nothing. M

But of course, use a lawyer or Certified Planner."

[Hal :-)]

Hal ... The 'Florida Enhanced Life Estate Deed' is available and leaves full control of the residence to the occupant until one passes .. ergo, the home could be sold, gifted etc. It also insulates one from possible outside claims against the named beneficiaries ..... these are very liberal clauses and fairly unique to Florida. It also protects the homestead from the probate process. However, Florida must be your 'homestead, ' so if you have a declared homestead in another state you would not be qualified. For most of us full time residents, a 'Florida Enhanced Life Estate Deed' is a valuable document to consider; it provides for the future but surrenders nothing. M

Thanks Midge. I'll keep that in mind. I'm a snowbird, but considering homesteading to get out from under the NY tax umbrella. This would be just another reason to move the residence. Maybe next year.

[hheinecke]

The insurance agent, Rosemarie over at Cebert Wealth is very helpful. Her Phone number is 352-430-3083. She represents different carriers and different funding options. John Hancock is one of the companies she represents. She also helped me with my Medicare Supplement. She is honest and knowlegdeable.

[LisaJ]

Just had a conversation with my 72 year old father regarding long term care insurance. He does not have any and does not believe in purchasing it. He claims all 4 of my grandparents did not use it, my mother who passed away at 58 did not use it and his brother who passed at 67 did not use it. He believes the money you spend on long term care insurance should be invested. My question is, what percent of people who purchase ltc actually use it? Any thoughts or advice?

[christina.campbell46]

I accidentally read ‘car insurance’ and was going to tell you about a great quote I got from the AARP car insurance estimate calculator. But in any case, if you’re over 50, you should look into the AARP and the discounts they offer on care insurance. It’s a great bargain.