Restaurant workers salaries

[Bill32]

S.B. 7210 passed the Florida senate and heading to the house.

Tampa based OSI partners ( Carrabas, Bonefish, Outback ) got the Senate to draft a bill to lower the minimum wage for restaurant workers who make tips from $4.65 to $2.13 per hour, They don't get any benifits, have to pay for their own health care, many are single parents ..... WHAT!.....IS IT JUST ME!!!!!!!!!!! So OSI Partners gave $130,000. to a few dozen republican senators to sell out some of the lowest paid and hardest working members of our community. Shameful.....................Shameful. If you think its hard to find decent servers now just see what you get if this bill passes!! Next time people feel like beating up on unions remember this is why we have them! These hard working young men and women have no one to represent them, if these establishments could pay them nothing they would! So now I think as a restaurant goer, OK, I guess we will see our menu prices go down.........YEAH RIGHT.

So now I'll take a few hours tracking down email addresses of the supporting restaurants and names of restaurants who don't support this bill.

[Bill32]

In the interest of complete disclosure I worked many years in the restaurant business, am a union member ( not restaurant) and was a small business owner.

[Bill32]

Florida House of Representatives - Representatives (http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Representatives/representatives.aspx)

Senators - The Florida Senate (http://www.flsenate.gov/Senators/)

Links to contact our " esteemed" Representatives and senators

[graciegirl]

S.B. 7210 passed the Florida senate and heading to the house.

Tampa based OSI partners ( Carrabas, Bonefish, Outback ) got the Senate to draft a bill to lower the minimum wage for restaurant workers who make tips from $4.65 to $2.13 per hour, They dont any benifits, have to pay for their own health care, many are single parents ..... WHAT!.....IS IT JUST ME!!!!!!!!!!! So OSI Partners gave $130,000. to a few dozen republican senators to sell out some of the lowest paid and hardest working members of our community. Shameful.....................Shameful. If you think its hard to find decent servers now just see what you get if this bill passes!! Next time people feel like beating up on unions remember this is why we have them! These hard working young men and women have no one to represent them, if these establishments could pay them nothing they wood! So now I think as a restaurant goer, OK, I guess we will see our menu prices go down.........YEAH RIGHT.

So now I'll take a few hours tracking down email addresses of the supporting restaurants and names of restaurants who don't support this bill.

I read this in The Daily Sun and I couldn't believe what I was reading.

All the more reason to tip well. I appreciate the good service found in so many of our restaurants. The service is sometimes better than the food and I am thinking of places like Toojays, Cane Garden, Mallory and Glenview. Thank you servers. That is hard work that is much appreciated.

This legislation needs to be reversed!

[blueash]

Bill, I love your outrage and willingness to stand up for the workers. I suspect that business interests are trying to save themselves $$ with this proposal and that spending $$ to "convince" (see alternate definition of bribe) the legislature to go along is their plan. I'd love to see a requirement that business which choose this new lower salary will guarantee the state they will use that savings to hire new workers and need to prove it by demonstrating that their labor cost did not go down. After all we all know that decreasing costs to businesses will increase jobs they can offer.

The proposed bill has an interesting catch. I'm not sure how it would play out in the real world. Under present law the server must be directly paid the Florida Minimum wage for tipped employees of 4.65/hr as there is a presumption of an additional 3.02/hr in tips making the total 7.67/hr which is Florida Minimum Wage. Thus the owner is paying 4.65 and the server is only guaranteed 7.67

The bill changes it to the owner having an option of paying a lower salary of the Federal Minimum wage for tipped employees which is 2.13/hr but the owner must guarantee that the total salary + tips equals 130% of Florida minimum wage, or 7.67 x1.3 = 9.98/hr If the tips do not give the server enough the owner must make up the difference. And they have to elect which salary structure they want a year at a time. So the real issue here is whether the average server makes at least 6.86/hr in tips. The irony of it all is that is you work at a busier/pricier restaurant where your tips are higher, the owner can get away with directly paying you less but the server can be sure of getting 9.98. Whereas at a lower cost lower tips place the owner won't want to take a risk on being liable for the extra money and he will choose to go with the old system where the server can only be sure of 7.67/hr. Full analysis is at http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2012/7210/Analyses/hXkS/dVNG97m9xBgEr8lhIzS8gI=%7C11/Public/Bills/7200-7299/7210/Analysis/2012s7210.pre.cm.PDF
Sorry for the long post

[Moderator]

Let's try to keep the discussion as non political as possible and focus on the issue of restaurant wages. If the discussion strays too far, it may be headed for the subscriber only political forum.

So far, so good....

[Hal :-)]

I'd like to tip as a show of appreciation for exceptional service (common elsewhere in the world). How did we get to the point that we're forced to kick in for basic wages? Shouldn't that be built into the cost? It seems to me that this just allows establishments to lower prices by exploiting the staff. It's really unfair, all too often the quality of the service has nothing to do with the server and is entirely out of their control.

[Bill32]

Maybe one of the reasons I'm a little more sensitive with this subject is that i'm reading Ken Follett's new book " Fall Of Giants". We tend to forget where we came from and how we ended up in The Villages. Everyone should be reminded on how difficult it was for the working class in the late 1800's and early 1900's. This behavior by the restaurant industry should be a rude awakening for all of us!

[Bill32]

Moderator, Maybe this should be posted on the political forum also but it is still a restaurant issue. I'm getting in touch with all our local politicians, Democrat or Republican, doesn't matter, I'm a registered Independent. Also the parent companies of as many restaurant chains that I can find and register my shock!

[ilovetv]

Bill, I love your outrage and willingness to stand up for the workers. I suspect that business interests are trying to save themselves $$ with this proposal and that spending $$ to "convince" (see alternate definition of bribe) the legislature to go along is their plan. I'd love to see a requirement that business which choose this new lower salary will guarantee the state they will use that savings to hire new workers and need to prove it by demonstrating that their labor cost did not go down. After all we all know that decreasing costs to businesses will increase jobs they can offer.

The proposed bill has an interesting catch. I'm not sure how it would play out in the real world. Under present law the server must be directly paid the Florida Minimum wage for tipped employees of 4.65/hr as there is a presumption of an additional 3.02/hr in tips making the total 7.67/hr which is Florida Minimum Wage. Thus the owner is paying 4.65 and the server is only guaranteed 7.67

The bill changes it to the owner having an option of paying a lower salary of the Federal Minimum wage for tipped employees which is 2.13/hr but the owner must guarantee that the total salary + tips equals 130% of Florida minimum wage, or 7.67 x1.3 = 9.98/hr If the tips do not give the server enough the owner must make up the difference. And they have to elect which salary structure they want a year at a time. So the real issue here is whether the average server makes at least 6.86/hr in tips. The irony of it all is that is you work at a busier/pricier restaurant where your tips are higher, the owner can get away with directly paying you less but the server can be sure of getting 9.98. Whereas at a lower cost lower tips place the owner won't want to take a risk on being liable for the extra money and he will choose to go with the old system where the server can only be sure of 7.67/hr. Full analysis is at http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2012/7210/Analyses/hXkS/dVNG97m9xBgEr8lhIzS8gI=%7C11/Public/Bills/7200-7299/7210/Analysis/2012s7210.pre.cm.PDF
Sorry for the long post

The "long post" helped understand what they're doing. Further proof that they cannot keep their power-grubbing, politicking hands out of ANYTHING!!!! They have to have power over every single thing that goes on....and that's why our governments aren't worth a SH**.

[ilovetv]

S.B. 7210 passed the Florida senate and heading to the house.

Tampa based OSI partners ( Carrabas, Bonefish, Outback ) got the Senate to draft a bill to lower the minimum wage for restaurant workers who make tips from $4.65 to $2.13 per hour, They don't get any benifits, have to pay for their own health care, many are single parents ..... WHAT!.....IS IT JUST ME!!!!!!!!!!! So OSI Partners gave $130,000. to a few dozen republican senators to sell out some of the lowest paid and hardest working members of our community. Shameful.....................Shameful. If you think its hard to find decent servers now just see what you get if this bill passes!! Next time people feel like beating up on unions remember this is why we have them! These hard working young men and women have no one to represent them, if these establishments could pay them nothing they would! So now I think as a restaurant goer, OK, I guess we will see our menu prices go down.........YEAH RIGHT.

So now I'll take a few hours tracking down email addresses of the supporting restaurants and names of restaurants who don't support this bill.

Thanks for defending the tipped servers, etc., but unionizing them is NOT the answer!!!

All that does is confiscate MORE of the pathetic $4.67/hr they get now, for forced union dues that will not be used to defend the living wage, but WILL be used to pay for campaigns of politicians interested only in their own re-election and self-preservation.

We need to let Outback, Carrabas, Bonefish and the other companies supporting this know that they WILL earn themselves a giant boycott if they keep this up.

[thistrucksforyou]

Thanks for defending the tipped servers, etc., but unionizing them is NOT the answer!!!

All that does is confiscate MORE of the pathetic $4.67/hr they get now, for forced union dues that will not be used to defend the living wage, but WILL be used to pay for campaigns of politicians interested only in their own re-election and self-preservation.

We need to let Outback, Carrabas, Bonefish and the other companies supporting this know that they WILL earn themselves a giant boycott if they keep this up.



As a union supporter I say good luck on getting any 2 people to agree on anything....How many people have you heard saying we need good paying jobs in this country and go to wal-mart or a car dealership and buy a foreign product,,,I truely believe people will do what is good for them in the now and don.t care about someone elses problem...After all they had there problems when they were young and now its someone elses problem. GOOD LUCK !

[redwitch]

One thing to remember is that servers have to "tip back" other employees -- the busboy, the hostess, the expediter, some even the bartender (who usually makes more in tips than the servers) and manager. Thus, that $7.67 becomes even less since another 10% minimum goes to others. There is something patently wrong with someone barely making minimum wage (if that) having to help pay the salaries of others.

When I was a server in high school and college, all tips were ours. If we wanted to give the busboy some extra money because of extra help, we did so as a choice, not a requirement. Also, we were able to decide how much to declare on taxes for tips. Did we cheat? Of course we did but it was the only way to get a decent wage. Today, the IRS takes an automatic 18% out for tips, based on meal tickets, not on the actual tips received. For every Gracie, there are three who think 10% is a great tip.

I've never been a big fan of unions but I can see the reasoning about having them for servers. Those in truly high-end restaurants are not going to want a union in. Those in the chain restaurants and mom and pop types might. However, are we willing to pay the higher prices for eating out this would require? There is no question who would be footing the bill?

[Posh 08]

When our girls would work as servers they would have to go in early and stay later to do "side work". This is rolling silver, slicing lemons, refilling salt/pepper etc. While doing these duties, they were on the clock, way below minimum wage. I never thought that was fair.

[momesu]

I read this in The Daily Sun and I couldn't believe what I was reading.

All the more reason to tip well. I appreciate the good service found in so many of our restaurants. The service is sometimes better than the food and I am thinking of places like Toojays, Cane Garden, Mallory and Glenview. Thank you servers. That is hard work that is much appreciated.

This legislation needs to be reversed!

Gracie I totally agree with you.
Suzanne

[momesu]

As a union supporter I say good luck on getting any 2 people to agree on anything....How many people have you heard saying we need good paying jobs in this country and go to wal-mart or a car dealership and buy a foreign product,,,I truely believe people will do what is good for them in the now and don.t care about someone elses problem...After all they had there problems when they were young and now its someone elses problem. GOOD LUCK !

I find this a very sad comment on what has happened in much of our country. Sad but oh too true.

What I need to do is try my best not to fall into this pattern. I can't change the way others act but I can control how I do!

Suzanne

[momesu]

When our girls would work as servers they would have to go in early and stay later to do "side work". This is rolling silver, slicing lemons, refilling salt/pepper etc. While doing these duties, they were on the clock, way below minimum wage. I never thought that was fair.

Yep and now tips for that time to bring up wage....it was the same thing for my son when he worked a waiter. He loved the job but quit after a few months because even with tips he could not make enough money for the time he put in to justify the long hours for the type pay he was receiving. He worked at a big chain restaurant by the way that loved to boast there low prices.....and yes the tips he received had to be divided up between him and many others.

Suzanne

[2BNTV]

I read this in The Daily Sun and I couldn't believe what I was reading.

All the more reason to tip well. I appreciate the good service found in so many of our restaurants. The service is sometimes better than the food and I am thinking of places like Toojays, Cane Garden, Mallory and Glenview. Thank you servers. That is hard work that is much appreciated.

This legislation needs to be reversed!

:agree:

My son works in the hotel management field so I am somewhat sensitive to the needs of server and people who are dependent on tips to realize a living wage. I generally overtip when out at restaurants.

[Oren L Miller]

When our girls would work as servers they would have to go in early and stay later to do "side work". This is rolling silver, slicing lemons, refilling salt/pepper etc. While doing these duties, they were on the clock, way below minimum wage. I never thought that was fair.

I am one of the over tippers also. Ask my wife. I have been called by my credit card company because sometimes the tip was as large as the bill. But I also think the restaurant owners should pay them a legitimate wage. The owners are responsible for getting customers in the door. The owners are responsible for the quality of the food. All the tip should be for is the service rendered by the waitstaff.

[Bill32]

Thanks for defending the tipped servers, etc., but unionizing them is NOT the answer!!!

All that does is confiscate MORE of the pathetic $4.67/hr they get now, for forced union dues that will not be used to defend the living wage, but WILL be used to pay for campaigns of politicians interested only in their own re-election and self-preservation.

We need to let Outback, Carrabas, Bonefish and the other companies supporting this know that they WILL earn themselves a giant boycott if they keep this up.

I'm not suggesting they unionize, but I am pointing out that with no organized opposition the Restaurant owners, or our Government for that matter, these workers will be better off going on welfare and than they would have a standard of living better than the workers making $ 2.00/hr. I know many restaurant workers and in the off season they might bring home $20.00 per shift in tips. I just think this is a blatant way of increasing their profits at the expense of their workers.

On other point if it wasn't for unions we wouldn't have a middle class. There is good and bad in every organization just look at congress!

[Bill32]

One thing to remember is that servers have to "tip back" other employees -- the busboy, the hostess, the expediter, some even the bartender (who usually makes more in tips than the servers) and manager. Thus, that $7.67 becomes even less since another 10% minimum goes to others. There is something patently wrong with someone barely making minimum wage (if that) having to help pay the salaries of others.

When I was a server in high school and college, all tips were ours. If we wanted to give the busboy some extra money because of extra help, we did so as a choice, not a requirement. Also, we were able to decide how much to declare on taxes for tips. Did we cheat? Of course we did but it was the only way to get a decent wage. Today, the IRS takes an automatic 18% out for tips, based on meal tickets, not on the actual tips received. For every Gracie, there are three who think 10% is a great tip.

I've never been a big fan of unions but I can see the reasoning about having them for servers. Those in truly high-end restaurants are not going to want a union in. Those in the chain restaurants and mom and pop types might. However, are we willing to pay the higher prices for eating out this would require? There is no question who would be footing the bill?

Redwitch, The minimum wage for workers in Fl. who get tips is about $ 4.65. not $ 7.67 so they want to cut that to $ 2.13 !! And it isn't just the chain restaurants that will cut but our country clubs also. Cane garden is an exception and is village owned, they pay their tipped employees above the $4.65 min. I'm on a fixed income like most of us here and I don't want to pay more for a dinner out so I'm not advocating raising their already meager salary just don't cut it to such an embarrassing level. And don't think this will help with the quality of servers we get or think we will get a reduction in our meal prices........

[Bill32]

When our girls would work as servers they would have to go in early and stay later to do "side work". This is rolling silver, slicing lemons, refilling salt/pepper etc. While doing these duties, they were on the clock, way below minimum wage. I never thought that was fair.

It was never fair Posh, I bet in two years you will have to be bi-lingual to converse with all of your wait staff.................bring on the illeagles!

[Bill32]

:agree:

My son works in the hotel management field so I am somewhat sensitive to the needs of server and people who are dependent on tips to realize a living wage. I generally overtip when out at restaurants.

I agree and always tip well but that should not take the responsibility away from the employer to care for their workers. We are indirectly subsidizing their payroll now!

[mac9]

Having worked as a server while in school, I am sympathetic to the crap salaries that they receive. When I receive good service, I always tip 25 - 30%, but I never put it all on my credit card. I will put a few dollars as the tip on my card and leave the rest in cash. I have been thanked by many servers!

[Sail41]

Nobody needs or should need to work for 2 and change. Especially at the large chain resturants. Tip your server well, if they are good. They make you meal enjoyable. This bill is not a good thing for Florida.

[ilovetv]

I'm not sure where the original poster got the summary and effects of the FL Senate bill 7210, but what I'm reading in the actual bill text AND "Analysis" posted by the Florida Senate is NOT what was said above:

"22 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida:
23
24 Section 1. Optional guaranteed wage for tipped employees.
25 For tipped employees who meet eligibility requirements for the
26 tip credit under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, an
27 employer may elect to guarantee that all such employees receive
28 a wage, including tips, equal to at least 130 percent of the
29 state minimum wage ($7.67 per hour) established pursuant to s. 448.110, Florida
30 Statutes, rounded up to the next cent.
31 (1) The employer shall make this election in writing. This
32 written election must be dated and prominently displayed in a
33 conspicuous, accessible place on the employer’s premises and
34 must remain in effect for at least 1 year until revoked by the
35 employer.
36 (2) If an employer fails to pay a tipped employee the wage
37 guaranteed under this section, or engages in any discriminatory
38 or retaliatory action prohibited under s. 448.110, Florida
39 Statutes, the employer is subject to the civil actions and fines
40 provided for under s. 448.110, Florida Statutes.
41 (3) An employer that pays a tipped employee the wage
42 guaranteed under this section is deemed to have fulfilled the
43 employer’s obligations with respect to payment of the state
44 minimum wage. This section does not affect an employer’s
45 obligation to comply with the requirements of the federal Fair
46 Labor Standards Act.
47 Section 2. This act shall take effect July 1, 2012.

See "Bill Text" and "Analyses" at this site:

Senate Bill 7210 (2012) - The Florida Senate (http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2012/7210)

ALSO: This is the related FEDERAL law (in the Analysis page):

Currently, Florida’s minimum wage is $7.67 per hour.
Employers of tipped employees, who meet eligibility requirements for the tip credit under the Fair Labor Standards Act, may count tips actually received as wages under the Florida minimum wage. However, the employer must pay tipped employees a direct wage. The direct wage is calculated as equal to the minimum wage ($7.67) minus the 2003 tip credit ($3.02), or a direct hourly wage of $4.65 as of January 1, 2012.5

Fair Labor Standards Act
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) prescribes standards for minimum wages, overtime pay, recordkeeping, and child labor.11 It is administered by the U.S. Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division. The current federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. The required minimum
BILL: SPB 7210 Page 3
cash wage for tipped employees is $2.13 per hour; employers may take a tip credit of up to $5.12 from the federal minimum wage. There are additional notice requirements that employers must make to tipped employees in order to use the tip credit.

Employers electing to use the tip credit provision must be able to show that tipped employees receive at least the minimum wage when direct (or cash) wages and the tip credit amount are combined. If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct (or cash) wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage of $7.25 per hour, the employer must make up the difference.......

I'm no lawyer, but to me--as a former server with relatives who are now--this seems fair!

[ilovetv]

...

[graciegirl]

I'm not sure where the original poster got the summary and effects of the FL Senate bill 7210, but what I'm reading in the actual bill text AND "Analysis" posted by the Florida Senate is NOT what was said above:

"22 Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Florida:
23
24 Section 1. Optional guaranteed wage for tipped employees.
25 For tipped employees who meet eligibility requirements for the
26 tip credit under the federal Fair Labor Standards Act, an
27 employer may elect to guarantee that all such employees receive
28 a wage, including tips, equal to at least 130 percent of the
29 state minimum wage ($7.67 per hour) established pursuant to s. 448.110, Florida
30 Statutes, rounded up to the next cent.
31 (1) The employer shall make this election in writing. This
32 written election must be dated and prominently displayed in a
33 conspicuous, accessible place on the employer’s premises and
34 must remain in effect for at least 1 year until revoked by the
35 employer.
36 (2) If an employer fails to pay a tipped employee the wage
37 guaranteed under this section, or engages in any discriminatory
38 or retaliatory action prohibited under s. 448.110, Florida
39 Statutes, the employer is subject to the civil actions and fines
40 provided for under s. 448.110, Florida Statutes.
41 (3) An employer that pays a tipped employee the wage
42 guaranteed under this section is deemed to have fulfilled the
43 employer’s obligations with respect to payment of the state
44 minimum wage. This section does not affect an employer’s
45 obligation to comply with the requirements of the federal Fair
46 Labor Standards Act.
47 Section 2. This act shall take effect July 1, 2012.

See "Bill Text" and "Analyses" at this site:

Senate Bill 7210 (2012) - The Florida Senate (http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2012/7210)

ALSO: This is the related FEDERAL law (in the Analysis page):

Currently, Florida’s minimum wage is $7.67 per hour.
Employers of tipped employees, who meet eligibility requirements for the tip credit under the Fair Labor Standards Act, may count tips actually received as wages under the Florida minimum wage. However, the employer must pay tipped employees a direct wage. The direct wage is calculated as equal to the minimum wage ($7.67) minus the 2003 tip credit ($3.02), or a direct hourly wage of $4.65 as of January 1, 2012.5

Fair Labor Standards Act
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) prescribes standards for minimum wages, overtime pay, recordkeeping, and child labor.11 It is administered by the U.S. Department of Labor, Wage and Hour Division. The current federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. The required minimum
BILL: SPB 7210 Page 3
cash wage for tipped employees is $2.13 per hour; employers may take a tip credit of up to $5.12 from the federal minimum wage. There are additional notice requirements that employers must make to tipped employees in order to use the tip credit.

Employers electing to use the tip credit provision must be able to show that tipped employees receive at least the minimum wage when direct (or cash) wages and the tip credit amount are combined. If an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct (or cash) wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage of $7.25 per hour, the employer must make up the difference.......

I'm no lawyer, but to me--as a former server with relatives who are now--this seems fair!

Oh dear, please put it in your own words. It sounds like the servers will be paid less hourly before tips.

Also, is this a change in the works or a done deal? Is it lower than it was?

[Bill32]

As registered independents my wife and I voted for you and mostly other Republicans. We were shocked and outraged by a bill passed by the senate to lower the wage of some of the hardest working, lowest paid workers in our community from about $4.65 to $2.13 per hr.! Yes, that's $2.13 per hour! We personally know many restaurant workers in our community, many single mothers, they break their backs to try to support themselves, their family's, and stay off the welfare roles. Once the restaurant owners force these hard working people out all we will have is illegal workers ( who are used to a much lower standard of living ) doing the work. Shameful........................shameful.

We know the reasoning the restaurant owners are using and its almost embarrassing to us that they think we're that stupid!!! They are only interested in increasing their own profits at the expense of the wait staff.

We will watch all of our elected officials and their position on this issue and any issue involving pay and working conditions for our hard working Americans.

We will personally make sure all in our community of 80,000 going to 110,000 residents will also know the positions our elected officials take. Already the community blogs are hot with this issue. Please do all you can do to stop this bill.

Respectfully,

[Bill32]

ilovtv, read between the lines.........if the restaurant association wants this bill sponsored it is not intended to benefit the servers it is to benefit them! This wasn't introduced by the workers! You would have to be a lawyer to decipher the laws they write in congress, keep it simple, if the Restaurants want this it's for their benefit only.

[Bobcuse]

Having worked as a server while in school, I am sympathetic to the crap salaries that they receive. When I receive good service, I always tip 25 - 30%, but I never put it all on my credit card. I will put a few dollars as the tip on my card and leave the rest in cash. I have been thanked by many servers!

I must be naive about leaving tips on my credit card. I always try to be generous with tipping good servers but never thought about the tax implications for them as I didn't know anything about how tips are reported as income. In reading another post somewhere here, I thought it implied that the total food bill is assigned to a server and the IRS assumes that 18% of the bill should be tip income for that server? Can someone clarify please....is a cash tip more beneficial for a server, and do these servers at Carrabbas, Outback, et al share their tips? Thanks for the info.

[2BNTV]

I agree and always tip well but that should not take the responsibility away from the employer to care for their workers. We are indirectly subsidizing their payroll now!

I agree but waiters and waitresses have to live and most employers are not doing what's right by them. I also agree this bill must be defeated. This puts an undue burden on the workers.

It is what it is for the time being until the relationship between employer and employee changes for the better.

IMHO - I don't see the restaurant industry changing in the near future.

[memason]

From everything I have read about this bill and the details that were posted by ilovetv, which came directly from the bill language, it seems to me that this bill actually has a positive impact on servers. They will be guaranteed a minimum wage of $7.67/hr....

I am not able to find a single link that substantiates the claims made by the OP or that the restaurant association is behind this bill.

Bill32....perhaps you can provide some links that substantiate your claims.

Sorry...I just don't get it...

[redwitch]

I must be naive about leaving tips on my credit card. I always try to be generous with tipping good servers but never thought about the tax implications for them as I didn't know anything about how tips are reported as income. In reading another post somewhere here, I thought it implied that the total food bill is assigned to a server and the IRS assumes that 18% of the bill should be tip income for that server? Can someone clarify please....is a cash tip more beneficial for a server, and do these servers at Carrabbas, Outback, et al share their tips? Thanks for the info.

If you can avoid it, do not leave the tip on the credit card -- pay it in cash. You may tip 20% but many tip 10% (some even less or nothing regardless of how good the service). The IRS is going to deduct a minimum of 18% of the bill, so, yes, paying in cash does help the server -- the IRS can't claim the server is making more than 18% . So far as I know, the larger chains don't pool their tips but many small restaurants do. Also, some restaurants (including some of the chains) immediately take 10% of either the tip or the bill (whichever is larger) for tipouts.

BTW -- My comment on $7.67 was using the factors that were given to "insure" the worker got the minimum wage. If only it was true!

[Bill32]

A typical shift is 5 to 6 hours, at $7.67/ hr = 42.18 per shift, per 5 day's = $210.92/ wk. before taxes. Now take out food, clothing, housing, health care,etc and tell me how that would work for you? Most tip workers make ends meet by doing double shifts and no days off. Also now at this time of year their take home is more than the minimum wage. Average this for the year and they are able to stay off the welfare roll's. We are talking about grownups living on their own having much the same costs as we do.

OSI Partners out of Tampa pushed for this legislation and don't for a minute think they had the best interest of their workers in mind.

[memason]

A typical shift is 5 to 6 hours, at $7.67/ hr = 42.18 per shift, per 5 day's = $210.92/ wk. before taxes. Now take out food, clothing, housing, health care,etc and tell me how that would work for you? Most tip workers make ends meet by doing double shifts and no days off. Also now at this time of year their take home is more than the minimum wage. Average this for the year and they are able to stay off the welfare roll's. We are talking about grownups living on their own having much the same costs as we do.

OSI Partners out of Tampa pushed for this legislation and don't for a minute think they had the best interest of their workers in mind.

We can all do simple math.... Everyone working for minimum wage is in this same position...just the way it is.

Where's you PROOF that OSI Partners or any other association pushed this legislation? As I read the bill, it seems to be an improvement. Where is it not? They are not being paid $2.13/hr as previously claimed.

I just want to see the facts!

[Graytop]

A typical shift is 5 to 6 hours, at $7.67/ hr = 42.18 per shift, per 5 day's = $210.92/ wk. before taxes. Now take out food, clothing, housing, health care,etc and tell me how that would work for you? Most tip workers make ends meet by doing double shifts and no days off. Also now at this time of year their take home is more than the minimum wage. Average this for the year and they are able to stay off the welfare roll's. We are talking about grownups living on their own having much the same costs as we do.

OSI Partners out of Tampa pushed for this legislation and don't for a minute think they had the best interest of their workers in mind.

We live in America,...if these workers don't like their wage or anything else about their employment, no one is forcing them to stay there. People work where they work because they've made a decision. Do we really need to reduce them to "victim" status? :cryin2:

Why would you want to badmouth a company that's providing thousands of jobs to people,...perhaps you'd be happier if they didn't exist? ...You're living in a dream world if you think that restaurant jobs are ever going to pay a lot. It's just the way it is...I would guess that most servers understand going in that their "bread & butter" is in the tips, not what the restaurant pays them.

Go start your own restaurant and pay your workers whatever you want.:wave:

[ilovetv]

ilovtv, read between the lines.........if the restaurant association wants this bill sponsored it is not intended to benefit the servers it is to benefit them! This wasn't introduced by the workers! You would have to be a lawyer to decipher the laws they write in congress, keep it simple, if the Restaurants want this it's for their benefit only.

This language in the text of the bill is not difficult to understand:

27 employer may elect to guarantee that all such employees receive
28 a wage, including tips, equal to at least 130 percent of the
29 state minimum wage ($7.67 per hour) established pursuant to s. 448.110, Florida
30 Statutes, rounded up to the next cent.

So, this added, optional method of calculating the guaranteed tipped worker pay is 130% of $7.67, or $9.91 per hour including tips earned and any difference the employer would have to fill in if tips were insufficient to bring it up to the 130% of minimum.

A sample letter below by the Florida Restaurant & Lodging Association explains that they back this proposed option as "a guarantee of higher, stable wages to many of our tipped workforce" that suffers with seasonal fluctuations, time of day, and the economy.

Everyone here knows that restaurant business gets slower and tip opportunities become less in the summer, and because of time of day, and because of consumers' belt tightening.

It's apparent that the bill is to guarantee a stable wage for servers who work in places where business fluctuates a lot, like at country clubs up north where lengthy periods of rain and mud can absolutely kill golf and the club restaurant business for weeks.

Full-time tipped workers cannot rely on tips in fluctuating situations like this and so some clubs pay an hourly wage higher than regular minimum wage, to lend income stability for slow weeks/seasons. Here in FL, we have obviously "high and low" seasons.

A FL example of why the bill is to guarantee higher pay is this: A few years ago, we went to an Outback a few miles from DisneyWorld in a residential area where friends rented a Disney vacation home. When we got our bill and were calculating our tip, the server told us "we get regular minimum wage, not the lower tipped minimum wage, because it's hard to attract good servers with the way Disney pays them so much more per hour". He told us that in order to compete with Disney pay for servers, Outback was paying them more per hour. He also mentioned the difficulty with seasonal fluctuations in business/tips.

According to the Bill Analysis I posted earlier from the state legislative site (not political blogs and Huffington Post) it says clearly that tip money is to be claimed to fill in the difference from $2.13/hour and regular state minimum wage, and "IF an employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct (or cash) wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the minimum hourly wage of (federal) $7.25 per hour, the employer must make up the difference.......

So in other words, if a server's tips do not fill in the difference between $2.13 and FL minimum wage of $7.67, the employer has to fill that in and bring it up to 130% of minimum, under this new wage calculation option the bill provides. This is a decent wage a server can count on every day he/she works, regardless of whether business is slow or nonexistent because of season or bad weather.

See this sample letter explaining the position of the Florida Restaurant & Lodging Association....

Tipped Employee Sample Letter - Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association (http://www.frla.org/frla-news/item/925-tipped-employee-sample-letter)

[blueash]

You are a server at Bonefish. Under the law now you are paid $4.65 from your employer and whatever you get in tips. The government assumes you get the $3.02 in tips to bring you up to 7.65. (Note that if you do not get $3.02/hr in tips I believe there is an obligation for the employer to pay you more to make up the difference.. whether the employer really does that, I don't know.). But you work at Bonefish so in fact you average $10.00/hr in tips making your total hourly income $14.65. Under the proposal you still will get $10/hr in tips but the employer will only pay you $2.13 so your income drops to $12.13. Now the restaurant has cut their employee cost in half!
If on a really slow night you only make $4.00/hr in tips then your total for that night is only 6.13/hr and the employer must make up the difference to $9.91. If you almost always can get away with paying 2.13/hr which saves you 2.52/hr and rarely have to cover shortages then you make a lot more money. If on the other hand you own a waffle house, then you stay with 4.65/hr so you aren't at risk for the higher make-up cost. The irony here is the expensive diner owner ends up paying less than half to hire a server (2.13/hr) compared to the owner of the Waffle House ( 4.65/hr).
IMHO we ought to encourage a system where all employers should pay a living wage and not make the customers' tips the essential component of income. For those who travel, you recognize that in Europe tipping is only loose change. In that way if you were a server at a more expensive restaurant the ownership would pay you more in salary to get a better quality employee, just like any other business. And that extra cost for a higher paid server would be passed on to the patron as a higher price meal. But you see, you're already paying the higher price because you add the tip to the meal charge. Raise the meal charge 18% and give it all to the wait staff. Stop encouraging servers to lie on their taxes.

[blueash]

A sample letter below by the Florida Restaurant & Lodging Association explains that they back this proposed option as "a guarantee of higher, stable wages to many of our tipped workforce" that suffers with seasonal fluctuations, time of day, and the economy.

See this sample letter explaining the position of the Florida Restaurant & Lodging Association....

Tipped Employee Sample Letter - Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association (http://www.frla.org/frla-news/item/925-tipped-employee-sample-letter)

The letter is VERY revealing as it is a fill in the blank and sent to your representative/senator form. It begins "I am a small restaurant owner". Really? No large restaurant owners in this organization?? Well the FRLA is according to its website a legislative lobbying interest whose goals are to save the owners of these businesses $$ in taxes and fees. No where on the website is there ever a single mention of representing the workers in these industries or trying to be sure they make more money.

"The mission of FRLA is to Protect, Educate, and Promote the hospitality industry. The power and influence of FRLA is indisputable with a legislative track record to back it up. Led by CEO Carol Dover and an active Board of Directors, FRLA has been effective in influencing legislation that has saved the industry $1.2 billion in taxes and fees over the past 10 years. The association is committed to safe-guarding the needs of the hospitality industry and improving the business climate."

So please no more arguments about how they are just doing it to try to make the servers get a slightly better wage. How Orwellian.. lower your wages to raise your income.

[ilovetv]

The letter is VERY revealing as it is a fill in the blank and sent to your representative/senator form. It begins "I am a small restaurant owner". Really? No large restaurant owners in this organization?? Well the FRLA is according to its website a legislative lobbying interest whose goals are to save the owners of these businesses $$ in taxes and fees. No where on the website is there ever a single mention of representing the workers in these industries or trying to be sure they make more money.

"The mission of FRLA is to Protect, Educate, and Promote the hospitality industry. The power and influence of FRLA is indisputable with a legislative track record to back it up. Led by CEO Carol Dover and an active Board of Directors, FRLA has been effective in influencing legislation that has saved the industry $1.2 billion in taxes and fees over the past 10 years. The association is committed to safe-guarding the needs of the hospitality industry and improving the business climate."

So please no more arguments about how they are just doing it to try to make the servers get a slightly better wage. How Orwellian.. lower your wages to raise your income.

It's not mainly to get the servers a "slightly better wage". It's mainly to assure workers that on days/weeks/seasons when business is slow or nothing, they can count on a guaranteed 130% of the state minimum wage, including their tips filling in the gap between $2.13 and minimum.

And if they did not earn that much in tips, the employer has to fill in the gap up to the 130% of state minimum, in the new optional calculation that is tied to the federal and IRS requirements.

I know servers who sometimes work a slow afternoon shift and they might make only $5 in tips because there were no customers. So they got a dollar an hour in tips, and their "tipped minimum wage" of $4.67. Basically they got enough to buy gas to get there and back and buy a box of cereal and gallon of milk on the way home.

The new optional calculation gives workers a minimum earnings they can count on if few or no customers come in.

[Here2Stay]

Shameful for sure. Best way to address the issue and make a statement to these restuarants.....don't support any of them! When their sales drop, maybe the message will be heard loud and clear!

[redwitch]

We live in America,...if these workers don't like their wage or anything else about their employment, no one is forcing them to stay there. People work where they work because they've made a decision. Do we really need to reduce them to "victim" status? :cryin2:

Why would you want to badmouth a company that's providing thousands of jobs to people,...perhaps you'd be happier if they didn't exist? ...You're living in a dream world if you think that restaurant jobs are ever going to pay a lot. It's just the way it is...I would guess that most servers understand going in that their "bread & butter" is in the tips, not what the restaurant pays them.

Go start your own restaurant and pay your workers whatever you want.:wave:

Most servers work as such because they are the only jobs they can find. Few want this as a career choice. Yes, it's their fault they're unskilled and probably uneducated but that doesn't mean they should be exploited. Yes, they are well aware that they depend on tips to survive and that their employer is not going to pay them the minimum wage, let alone a living wage. However, how many jobs do you know where you have to help pay the wages of your co-workers? Most servers do and it comes out of their tips. So, even if this bill becomes law, servers still will not be making the minimum wage. Show me another industry today in the United States where it is possible to LEGALLY work for less than the minimum wage on a regular basis.

If the legislature really wants to help servers, how about making it illegal for servers to have to start early to do prep work or stay late to clean up and be off the clock for that period? How about forcing employers to pay support staff the minimum wage and not force servers to pay tip-backs? This bill serves no one but the big chains.

[Graytop]

Most servers work as such because they are the only jobs they can find. Few want this as a career choice. Yes, it's their fault they're unskilled and probably uneducated but that doesn't mean they should be exploited. Yes, they are well aware that they depend on tips to survive and that their employer is not going to pay them the minimum wage, let alone a living wage. However, how many jobs do you know where you have to help pay the wages of your co-workers? Most servers do and it comes out of their tips. So, even if this bill becomes law, servers still will not be making the minimum wage. Show me another industry today in the United States where it is possible to LEGALLY work for less than the minimum wage on a regular basis.

If the legislature really wants to help servers, how about making it illegal for servers to have to start early to do prep work or stay late to clean up and be off the clock for that period? How about forcing employers to pay support staff the minimum wage and not force servers to pay tip-backs? This bill serves no one but the big chains.

When you talk about helping to pay the wages of co-workers, are you referring to pooling tips?...If so, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've always been disappointed with restaurants that do not allow their servers to keep their own tips. It takes away the incentive for personal excellence.

From a business standpoint, companies are always looking for ways to reduce expenses and they shouldn't be regarded as evil or being "the big bad wolf" for doing so. They are in business to make a profit. Some people seem to think that making a profit is wrong or evil. Any business that doesn't keep a close eye on their bottom line will not survive long,.....then no one will have a job there. And I don't see where it's a bad thing when a company is looking for ways to legally pay less taxes. They would be foolish not to, and yet some people seem to think that these companies have an inexhaustable source of money to give to the government or employees. Here is a news bulletin,....your employer is not in business to provide you a living, not primarily,.... That may be a benefit to you for working there. They are in business to make a profit for themselves. If people are too naive to understand this, then private sector business is doomed in our country.

[mulligan]

If it weren't for the large number of older (resident?) servers, who are willing to work cheaply for something to do or just play money, it would probably be worth the effort to organize a villages-wide local union, and demand a better pay system. A minimum living wage( like san francisco's at around $10), or a stop to tip sharing. Let the servers raise their standard of living.

[Bill32]

We can over think any issue to death. I'm not a lawyer or a CPA. We all here in The Villages have been around the block a few times. I married into restaurant family in my previous life and no it inside out. I've owned my own business ( not hospitality) am a union member for many years, so I've been around. I'll say again, you can look at this from any angle you want to but if it quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

IF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WANTS THIS BILL IT'S FOR THEIR BENEFIT NOT THE WORKERS.

Keep it simple friends, maybe some of you can come up with examples on how lowering someones wages improved their standard of living?????

[Bill32]

Unfortunately we are probable better informed than the workers but maybe someone should ask them how they would feel getting a pay cut. If they feel they would be better of at the state minimum wage than why break your back waiting tables??? Work for McDonald's or Walmart!

[Bill32]

From everything I have read about this bill and the details that were posted by ilovetv, which came directly from the bill language, it seems to me that this bill actually has a positive impact on servers. They will be guaranteed a minimum wage of $7.67/hr....

I am not able to find a single link that substantiates the claims made by the OP or that the restaurant association is behind this bill.

Bill32....perhaps you can provide some links that substantiate your claims.

Sorry...I just don't get it...

Here is one article

Florida Minimum Wage Could Be Slashed For Restaurant Workers (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/08/florida-minimum-wage-servers_n_1263031.html)

[Bill32]

If it weren't for the large number of older (resident?) servers, who are willing to work cheaply for something to do or just play money, it would probably be worth the effort to organize a villages-wide local union, and demand a better pay system. A minimum living wage( like san francisco's at around $10), or a stop to tip sharing. Let the servers raise their standard of living.

This is a classic case where a union would be useful.

[Bill32]

Ken Follett's new book based during the late 1800's and early 1900's. Very interesting time period when workers were trying to raise their standard of living to where they are today. Classic struggle between the ruling class and the workers.

[mulligan]

Just to be completely clear, I meant a reasonable minimum PLUS tips.

[Graytop]

We can over think any issue to death. I'm not a lawyer or a CPA. We all here in The Villages have been around the block a few times. I married into restaurant family in my previous life and no it inside out. I've owned my own business ( not hospitality) am a union member for many years, so I've been around. I'll say again, you can look at this from any angle you want to but if it quacks like a duck it's probably a duck.

IF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WANTS THIS BILL IT'S FOR THEIR BENEFIT NOT THE WORKERS.

Keep it simple friends, maybe some of you can come up with examples on how lowering someones wages improved their standard of living?????

....I respect your opinion though I don't neccesarily agree,...thank you for starting this thread. It spurs investigation and good dialogue...

[Bill32]

When you talk about helping to pay the wages of co-workers, are you referring to pooling tips?...If so, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've always been disappointed with restaurants that do not allow their servers to keep their own tips. It takes away the incentive for personal excellence.

From a business standpoint, companies are always looking for ways to reduce expenses and they shouldn't be regarded as evil or being "the big bad wolf" for doing so. They are in business to make a profit. Some people seem to think that making a profit is wrong or evil. Any business that doesn't keep a close eye on their bottom line will not survive long,.....then no one will have a job there. And I don't see where it's a bad thing when a company is looking for ways to legally pay less taxes. They would be foolish not to, and yet some people seem to think that these companies have an inexhaustable source of money to give to the government or employees. Here is a news bulletin,....your employer is not in business to provide you a living, not primarily,.... That may be a benefit to you for working there. They are in business to make a profit for themselves. If people are too naive to understand this, then private sector business is doomed in our country.

No one objects to them making a profit. The point is they are banding together to depress wages to make a higher profit. I'm really surprised that so many here don't get it. Cook the food better, give better service, spruce up the decor, run some specials, go the extra mile, that's free enterprise but donating large sums of money to certain Senators campaigns to get legislation favoring them is just wrong!
If the government wanted to help the small business people cut their taxes and regulations. not cut the already meager salary of the employees.

[Bill32]

....I respect your opinion though I don't neccesarily agree,...thank you for starting this thread. It spurs investigation and good dialogue...

No problem, glad to help..........:bigbow:

[redwitch]

When you talk about helping to pay the wages of co-workers, are you referring to pooling tips?...If so, I agree wholeheartedly with you on that. I've always been disappointed with restaurants that do not allow their servers to keep their own tips. It takes away the incentive for personal excellence.

From a business standpoint, companies are always looking for ways to reduce expenses and they shouldn't be regarded as evil or being "the big bad wolf" for doing so. They are in business to make a profit. Some people seem to think that making a profit is wrong or evil. Any business that doesn't keep a close eye on their bottom line will not survive long,.....then no one will have a job there. And I don't see where it's a bad thing when a company is looking for ways to legally pay less taxes. They would be foolish not to, and yet some people seem to think that these companies have an inexhaustable source of money to give to the government or employees. Here is a news bulletin,....your employer is not in business to provide you a living, not primarily,.... That may be a benefit to you for working there. They are in business to make a profit for themselves. If people are too naive to understand this, then private sector business is doomed in our country.

No, I'm not talking about pooling tips -- don't like the practice but at least everyone earned the tips. I'm talking about servers having to give up 10% of their tips to pay busboys, hostesses, expediters and the like (sometimes even managers!!). BTW -- this 10% is not always figured by actual tips; frequently, it is the 18% IRS figure. So, even if this bill were to be passed to "guaranty" servers a minimum of $7.67 an hour, the reality is the vast majority would still be making less. No matter how look at it, servers are helping to pay the salaries of their co-workers. Talk about obscene!

But, using your logic, I guess this practice is perfectly acceptable and should be accepted by servers (sadly, it is but only because they have no choice). I suppose it is also acceptable that servers have to work off the clock to do prep and closing work? No, there is nothing wrong with a business trying to make a profit but should that profit be made by cheating others?

Don't forget that this bill greatly favors large chains. It will cause smaller restaurants to go out of business, much like chain supermarkets got rid of ma and pa grocery stores. Our kids don't miss those grocery stores since they never saw them. I do.

[Graytop]

No, I'm not talking about pooling tips -- don't like the practice but at least everyone earned the tips. I'm talking about servers having to give up 10% of their tips to pay busboys, hostesses, expediters and the like (sometimes even managers!!). BTW -- this 10% is not always figured by actual tips; frequently, it is the 18% IRS figure. So, even if this bill were to be passed to "guaranty" servers a minimum of $7.67 an hour, the reality is the vast majority would still be making less. No matter how look at it, servers are helping to pay the salaries of their co-workers. Talk about obscene!

But, using your logic, I guess this practice is perfectly acceptable and should be accepted by servers (sadly, it is but only because they have no choice). I suppose it is also acceptable that servers have to work off the clock to do prep and closing work? No, there is nothing wrong with a business trying to make a profit but should that profit be made by cheating others?

Don't forget that this bill greatly favors large chains. It will cause smaller restaurants to go out of business, much like chain supermarkets got rid of ma and pa grocery stores. Our kids don't miss those grocery stores since they never saw them. I do.

I was just stating that it's normal for a company to watch their expenses. If they're mistreating their employees and cheating them out of wages, then that is wrong. If this is such a large problem in the restaurant industry then people should unite and fight for change, but lets not just relegate restaurant workers into some sort of "victim" status. I see a tendency going on in society to villify big business no matter what kind of business it is. If there are facts to back it up, fine, if not, let's not just jump on the "evil corporations" bandwagon,...that's too easy. Go out there and fight for your cause!

I have worked in restaurants, a couple different times in my life, so I'm not completely ignorant of what goes on in there.

I apologize if I've offended anyone by my comments. Like you, I'm entitled to my views, even if they are wrong sometimes. :) Thanks for responding. My lips are sealed,....this is my last post on this thread unless I'm asked to respond.

[The Villager II]

I have a standard tip of 20% or if very happy with service, then 25 to 30%. I always give tips in cash even when paying the bill on a credit card. Cash is easy to manage by the wait person. If you want to get a better picture of how things work, go to the parking lot and watch what the wait staff drive up in compared to the owner. That will not tell the whole story, but gives you and idea of how the profits are distributed. Before you give me the monitary risk for the owner vise the waiters, also include what your toughts are on the labor given through the act of serving the customers.