Why The USF/Villages Health Alliance Is a Bad Idea

[Villages PL]

The health alliance is a bad idea because it represents two parties with opposing goals. The Villages half of the partnership seeks to promote business, which involves the promotion and sale of fast food (i.e., processed foods). (This covers all types of food outlets including supermarkets.) And the USF half of the partnership seeks to promote healthy eating habits as part of an overall healthy lifestyle.

Do you see the conflict of interests, or the push and pull of opposing goals? These two should never have tied the knot. Is it too late for an annulment? It's like two people getting married in a hurry and then discovering that he wants to have a lot of children and she doesn' want to have any. They can't have it both ways.

To the extent that USF succeeds, the Villages fast-food business will fail. Picture two people an a seesaw....as one goes up, the other comes down. Failure is built into this health study because we don't have both parties working together, even though, on the surface, it may appear as though they are.

[Bigben007]

What????????????????????

[graciegirl]

The health alliance is a bad idea because it represents two parties with opposing goals. The Villages half of the partnership seeks to promote business, which involves the promotion and sale of fast food (i.e., processed foods). (This covers all types of food outlets including supermarkets.) And the USF half of the partnership seeks to promote healthy eating habits as part of an overall healthy lifestyle.

Do you see the conflict of interests, or the push and pull of opposing goals? These two should never have tied the knot. Is it too late for an annulment? It's like two people getting married in a hurry and then discovering that he wants to have a lot of children and she doesn' want to have any. They can't have it both ways.

To the extent that USF succeeds, the Villages (processed) fast-food business will fail. Picture two people an a seesaw....as one goes up, the other comes down. Failure is built into this health study because we don't have both parties working together, even though, on the surface, it may appear as though they are.

I think it is far to simplistic to think that. Think a bit. You are concentrating on your passion which is eating healthily. The Villages rent space to restaurants and in some of those we can make wise food choices. The USF is conducting a research which they are funded to do, thus providing work for the researchers and information, if it is good enough that will further fund them.

Some of the researchers eat fast food...I am sure of that, and I am trying to make you smile VillagePl.

[golf2140]

the health alliance is a bad idea because it represents two parties with opposing goals. The villages half of the partnership seeks to promote business, which involves the promotion and sale of fast food (i.e., processed foods). (this covers all types of food outlets including supermarkets.) and the usf half of the partnership seeks to promote healthy eating habits as part of an overall healthy lifestyle.

Do you see the conflict of interests, or the push and pull of opposing goals? These two should never have tied the knot. Is it too late for an annulment? It's like two people getting married in a hurry and then discovering that he wants to have a lot of children and she doesn' want to have any. They can't have it both ways.

To the extent that usf succeeds, the villages (processed) fast-food business will fail. Picture two people an a seesaw....as one goes up, the other comes down. Failure is built into this health study because we don't have both parties working together, even though, on the surface, it may appear as though they are.

dah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mulligan]

I can't believe that it's a bad thing for the villages to offer a group to USF for study and research that represents the fastest growing segment of the population. With the wide cross section of Americans concentrated here, some useful data can be gleaned with regard to the healthcare needs of older people. That being said, I don't expect the majority of us will rush out and start living on bunny food and soy milk. Let's see what they come up with.

[Challenger]

The health alliance is a bad idea because it represents two parties with opposing goals. The Villages half of the partnership seeks to promote business, which involves the promotion and sale of fast food (i.e., processed foods). (This covers all types of food outlets including supermarkets.) And the USF half of the partnership seeks to promote healthy eating habits as part of an overall healthy lifestyle.

Do you see the conflict of interests, or the push and pull of opposing goals? These two should never have tied the knot. Is it too late for an annulment? It's like two people getting married in a hurry and then discovering that he wants to have a lot of children and she doesn' want to have any. They can't have it both ways.

To the extent that USF succeeds, the Villages (processed) fast-food business will fail. Picture two people an a seesaw....as one goes up, the other comes down. Failure is built into this health study because we don't have both parties working together, even though, on the surface, it may appear as though they are.
Here we go with the conspiricy theories again. Bad bad Developer

[rubicon]

Here we go with the conspiricy theories again. Bad bad Developer

Challenger: I was not going to respond until I came across your post. I don't know how you got from there to here but IMHO no one said anything about the developer. The OP was questioning the competing differences between what they sell and what the health people recommend. Clearly the survey can be beneficial, to some, if both sponsors learn something from it.

[BOMBERO]

What????????????????????

dah !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks for posting what I was having a hard time
trying to put into words.....:ohdear:

[Floridagal]

Lets give everybody a chance and see what develops. When all said and done, everyone can make their own choices.

[Mudder]

VillagerPL has a major problem with processed food and anything that remotely is connected with that type of food. What a stretch to go from dislike of all processed food to bad mouthing a collaboration that undoubtedly will benefit many people. I'm going to eat a couple of slices of Velveta chesse now!

[Villages PL]

I think it is far to simplistic to think that.

Good observation. I purposely kept it simple because it's all too easy to get lost in the details.

Think a bit. You are concentrating on your passion which is eating healthily.

Yes, but it's more than my passion. Healthy eating is the most important aspect of a healthy lifestyle.

The Villages rent space to restaurants and in some of those we can make wise food choices.

Yes, but if you look at the overall picture, about 95% of the food is highly processed. In many of the restaurants it's all processed. I used to go out with a neighborhood group to eat and most of the time I was lucky to find one healthy item on the menu. Most people, if they eat out often enough, will eventually cave in to other choices, out of bordom.


Some of the researchers eat fast food...I am sure of that, and I am trying to make you smile VillagePl.

I am smiling. Did you see all of those paper-thin young women working on the project? I wonder what their diet consists of.

[Villages PL]

Here we go with the conspiricy theories again. Bad bad Developer

Those are your words, not mine. I'm just saying what exists. And that which exists is neither a conspiricy nor a theory. Just because the developer is a good business man does not mean that he is conspiring against anyone. And yet it is fairly obvious that there are tons and tons of junk food being consumed daily in The Villages.

[ariel]

I'm a part timer and fairly new so I didn't attend the lecture by USF regarding their plan. I got the survey today and it looks pretty standard to me for surveys like this. Longitudinal studies like the AARP one VillagerPL is a part of will yield stronger data in the end, but it takes years to do these. This one is a one shot in time look at a selected population. Findings will be interesting and when the results are written up I would expect that the weaknesses (limitations) of the study will be discussed by the authors.

[Pturner]

Villages PL,

No, I don't see it as a conflict that restaurants rent space from the developer and that the developer gave USF the opportunity to conduct this study.

For one thing, people already know that it's healthier to eat healthy foods. However, some people are more concerned or passionate about health risks than others. Some people love food for pleasure more than for sustenance. For some, the joy they get from the food itself, and/or from the socializing involved with eating out, are worth the risks-- much like athletes who participate in sports that risks injury.

Secondly, it's no skin off the developer's teeth if restaurants start offering some healthful choices.

The irony is, the fact that the developer owns a hospital would be a better argument-- though still not a good one-- for a conflict than that some of his tenants are restaurants.

That argument fails too. Many hospitals, doctors and other health care organizations participate in health research and/or fund and support wellness programs.

[salpal]

on a different note, forms came with pre-coded numbers in corner, am I being paranoid in thinking that questionnaires are not 100 percent private?

[Villages PL]

on a different note, forms came with pre-coded numbers in corner, am I being paranoid in thinking that questionnaires are not 100 percent private?

I don't believe they are 100% private. What they mean, in my opinion, is they generally don't care who sends in a certain response. There are just too many of them for them to be too interested in any particular survey response. However, they did mention that the code tells them which village the survey came from. Does it tell them more than that? Does it give them access to your address? If they have your address, they might have a way of coming up with your name too.

They have been telling people to come in to the office if they didn't get a survey. If they don't have an address code, how can they protect against those who go to the office for a second, third, forth or fifth survey? If each of us is not on record, how would they know? Try going in to the office to get a second survey (tell them you didn't get one) and see if they ask for your name and/or address. If they do ask, tell them, "no", it's supposed to be anonymous. Just tell them what Village you're from.

That being the case, anyone could come for a survey from other nearby subdivisions. Is that what we are to believe?

[graciegirl]

[
...

[Villages PL]

I can't believe that it's a bad thing for the villages to offer a group to USF for study and research that represents the fastest growing segment of the population. With the wide cross section of Americans concentrated here, some useful data can be gleaned with regard to the healthcare needs of older people. That being said, I don't expect the majority of us will rush out and start living on bunny food and soy milk. Let's see what they come up with.

When I said USF is going to promote healthy eating I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Based on the lectures they gave, I have some doubt as to how much serious effort they will put into it. In the very first lecture, Dr. Peterson mentioned healthy eating but skipped over it so quickly, you would have missed it if you sneezed. So I could see from the very beginning that there was NO enthusiasm for it. And one thing I'm pretty sure of is that they won't achieve much unless they make healthy eating their number one priority. No bonified health study would do otherwise.

To think they might come up with something else is like thinking that we can, or should, reinvent the wheel. :22yikes:

[pooh]

Just to throw a little bit more into this particular discussion of what one eats and the state of health or unhealth....consider that genetics play a big part in our life span, not accounting for accidents. My Dad, bless his heart, passed away about two years ago at the age of 97. His Mother, his Grandmother, also lived into their late 90's. Their diets were beyond anything one would consider good....lots of meat, butter, fried foods, cold cuts, little dairy, not much on veggies, plenty of white bread, Dad and Great Grandma smoked, they drank, not heavily, but did have liquor now and then. For years and years, food fried was fried in hot lard.

I have nothing against eating good for you foods, however, as time passes, foods once considered to be bad for us are now on the good list...remember nuts, oils, wine... chocolate :) ....now on the good list.
Even Adelle Davis didn't live forever.

[Bogie Shooter]

[QUOTE=Villages PL;457238]I don't believe they are 100% private. What they mean, in my opinion, is they generally don't care who sends in a certain response. There are just too many of them for them to be too interested in any particular survey response. However, they did mention that the code tells them which village the survey came from. Does it tell them more than that? Does it give them access to your address? If they have your address, they might have a way of coming up with your name too.

They have been telling people to come in to the office if they didn't get a survey. If they don't have an address code, how can they protect against those who go to the office for a second, third, forth or fifth survey? If each of us is not on record, how would they know? Try going in to the office to get a second survey (tell them you didn't get one) and see if they ask for your name and/or address. If they do ask, tell them, "no", it's supposed to be anonymous. Just tell them what Village you're from.

That being the case, anyone could come for a survey from other nearby subdivisions. Is that what we are to believe?[/Q

What would I gain by filling out 10-15 of the forms???

[Villages PL]

Villages PL,

No, I don't see it as a conflict that restaurants rent space from the developer and that the developer gave USF the opportunity to conduct this study.

I kind of thought people would read something into what I said that I didn't actually say. I never mentioned the developer specifically, although, he is a big part of The Villages. I talked about the goal of "The Villages" being to promote and sell fast food. Yes, from the very beginning, the developer had a vision of what would be needed to build a successful, thriving community. And he was exactly right. That's what we have, a successful thriving community. But we're not healthier than any other community. I would think we are about the same. And that means we suffer from very high rates of degenerative diseases.

So, to get back to what I was saying: By "Villages" I mean not only the developer but everything that has been put in place thus far: The infrastructure. You can't undo it. McDonald's is going to be McDonald's, Wendy's is going to be Wendy's and Burger King is going to be Burger King, just to name a few. There are all the many supermarkets that advertise and sell more processed foods than anything else. The infrastructure is all firmly inplace and it's not going to change. We're not going to stop having parades, are we? No, and people will line up in a long long line for sausage grinders, right? What's a parade without the food? We're not going to stop having ice cream socials, are we? Who wants to play bingo without ice cream? Gotta have it. What about the barbeque competitions? Gotta have that too. How about the fund raising spagetti dinners? And how about the fund raising pancake breakfasts? I think you get the idea by now.

We want to have our cake and eat it too. No one has thought about the need to make any sacrifices. So this health study is going nowhere.

I need to cut this off for now. More later. :wave:

[Mikeod]

When I said USF is going to promote healthy eating I gave them the benefit of the doubt. Based on the lectures they gave, I have some doubt as to how much serious effort they will put into it. In the very first lecture, Dr. Peterson mentioned healthy eating but skipped over it so quickly, you would have missed it if you sneezed. So I could see from the very beginning that there was NO enthusiasm for it. And one thing I'm pretty sure of is that they won't achieve much unless they make healthy eating their number one priority. No bonified health study would do otherwise.

To think they might come up with something else is like thinking that we can, or should, reinvent the wheel. :22yikes:

Do you really believe the intent of the study is to come up with a treatment plan? It certainly seems so. Consider that the population being studied is mostly seniors who have had a considerable amount of time to develop good and bad lifestyle habits, the result of which is the overall well-being they now experience. The study questions seek to identify more precisely the population here, including their good and not so good actions that affect their health. Once the information is processed (Oops, I said a bad word, there.), they will be able to make recommendations to the overall population on how to maximize their lives while still enjoying their remaining years.

I reject your premise that medications are inherently bad. You are certainly welcome to your view that healthy eating is the primary source of good health, but it far too simplistic, in my view. It would seem you believe that if I have an unsettled family situation, a stressful job in a polluted environment, get no exercise, and have ancestors that died at an early age from heart disease or diabetes or cancer, that if I follow your "healthy eating" I will be completely healthy and can avoid medical intervention, especially in the form of "drugs". You don't think healthy eating will modify DNA, do you?

[Villages PL]

For one thing, people already know that it's healthier to eat healthy foods. However, some people are more concerned or passionate about health risks than others. Some people love food for pleasure more than for sustenance. For some, the joy they get from the food itself, and/or from the socializing involved with eating out, are worth the risks-- much like athletes who participate in sports that risks injury.

Yes, you are correct. I believe the majority of people will not change. Those who have been health minded in the past will continue to be health minded. And those who place a high value on eating for pleasure will continue eating what they eat. So it will be all too easy for USF to throw up their hands and say, "we can't make people eat a healthy diet if they don't want to." And that will be the end of that. That's exactly what I predict they will do. So then they will get down to what they really want to do: They will concentrate on the doctor-patient relationship. That won't hurt the infrastructure that's already in place. If anything it will help the doctoring business. They will also concentrate on building up the medical, nursing home, assisted living and other such infrastructure. And the developer, no doubt, will happily come in to help that effort. That's what I think it's really all about. For example, if someone is unable to live on their own, one might conclude that they will be healthier in a good nursing home or assisted living facility. And they will say that they did it in the name of making Villagers healthier. :22yikes: Well, that's my opinion.

Must stop again: More later. :wave:

[Villages PL]

Just to throw a little bit more into this particular discussion of what one eats and the state of health or unhealth....consider that genetics play a big part in our life span, not accounting for accidents. My Dad, bless his heart, passed away about two years ago at the age of 97. His Mother, his Grandmother, also lived into their late 90's. Their diets were beyond anything one would consider good....lots of meat, butter, fried foods, cold cuts, little dairy, not much on veggies, plenty of white bread, Dad and Great Grandma smoked, they drank, not heavily, but did have liquor now and then. For years and years, food fried was fried in hot lard.

I have nothing against eating good for you foods, however, as time passes, foods once considered to be bad for us are now on the good list...remember nuts, oils, wine... chocolate :) ....now on the good list.
Even Adelle Davis didn't live forever.

Thanks, pooh, for adding to the discussion. Genetics do play a part in health and longevity. For example, some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some may be born with few. This probobly explains why your ancestors could eat lots of meat, butter, fried foods, cold cuts and dairy.

As far as smoking, my grandfather, who lived to 97, smoked until he was thirty. He also worked in coal mining after he came to the U.S.. Perhaps his healthy diet compensated for it. Okinawans who smoke don't seem to have any health problems because of it. It's thought that their healthy diets compensate for the harm done by smoking.

With your ancestors, perhaps it was the liquor and quality vegetables (even thought a small amount). There may be other things like CoQ10 which is produced by the liver. Maybe they produced a lot of it.

I believe my family has a lot of cholesterol receptors too because no one in my large extended family has ever had heart trouble. Having said that, I am a vegan because I'm trying to avoid getting cancer. Imagine, I could be eating all the meat I want but have to worry about something else besides getting heart trouble. But I don't really miss it. I will have a sardine or two once in a while. I love fruit, vegetables, whole grains and legumes etc..

[Russ_Boston]

The health alliance is a bad idea because it represents two parties with opposing goals. The Villages half of the partnership seeks to promote business, which involves the promotion and sale of fast food (i.e., processed foods). (This covers all types of food outlets including supermarkets.) And the USF half of the partnership seeks to promote healthy eating habits as part of an overall healthy lifestyle.

Do you see the conflict of interests, or the push and pull of opposing goals? These two should never have tied the knot. Is it too late for an annulment? It's like two people getting married in a hurry and then discovering that he wants to have a lot of children and she doesn' want to have any. They can't have it both ways.

To the extent that USF succeeds, the Villages fast-food business will fail. Picture two people an a seesaw....as one goes up, the other comes down. Failure is built into this health study because we don't have both parties working together, even though, on the surface, it may appear as though they are.

No mater how wildly successful USF is: The fast food business is here to stay. I also see many 'locals' at the fast food places on 466 and 441.

I don't think that we, having over 100K population, have any concerns when it comes to restaurant choices. (Except a locally owned finer dining establishment. but that is a different topic).

[Russ_Boston]

on a different note, forms came with pre-coded numbers in corner, am I being paranoid in thinking that questionnaires are not 100 percent private?

I have seen surveys like this before and USF dosen't really care about who we are as much as they care about what we are. For example their data would say something like "survey #298 has 1 male and 1 female between the ages of X and Y and they don't smoke, drink lightly etc etc.). They don't really care about the names. Your just a number to them.

[pcogg1]

I view this completely different. Maybe if you choose to eat in this manner then exercise more with the wonderful free programs the Villages offer to us. I enjoy visiting the health center once a week to see my progress in my BMI. It's all free to all of us! Take advantage of this so we can all hope to live a long fulfilled healthy life.
Patti
Village of Pennecamp

[Villages PL]

I view this completely different. Maybe if you choose to eat in this manner then exercise more with the wonderful free programs the Villages offer to us. I enjoy visiting the health center once a week to see my progress in my BMI. It's all free to all of us! Take advantage of this so we can all hope to live a long fulfilled healthy life.
Patti
Village of Pennecamp

Thanks for your input, Patti. If that's what works for you, go for it. But just a word of caution: If you reinforce bad eating habits and then rely on exercise to burn the excess calories, what happens if, for whatever reason, you can't continue to exercise? Or, if you can't continue at the same high level?

Based on my observations, here's what happens. The exercise stops at some point but the bad eating habits remain. Here's just one example: I knew a woman in the villages who used to work as a traffic cop up north. She would get out in the middle of a busy intersection and direct the cars. Between that and raising three kids, she was very neat and trim. She showed me her pictures. When she moved to The Villages, she continued to be active by walking 3 or 4 miles per day. But by the time she was 75, her knees began to hurt, so she gradually cut back on the walking. But after several decades of practicing bad eating habits, she couldn't change enough. Her height was 5' 1" and her weight went up to 195 lbs.. That's obese. (She passed away about 4 years ago.)

So that's the way it usually works. Just thought I would give you a heads up on that.

:wave:

[pooh]

Thanks, pooh, for adding to the discussion. Genetics do play a part in health and longevity. For example, some people are born with lots of cholesterol receptors and some may be born with few. This probobly explains why your ancestors could eat lots of meat, butter, fried foods, cold cuts and dairy.

As far as smoking, my grandfather, who lived to 97, smoked until he was thirty. He also worked in coal mining after he came to the U.S.. Perhaps his healthy diet compensated for it. Okinawans who smoke don't seem to have any health problems because of it. It's thought that their healthy diets compensate for the harm done by smoking.

With your ancestors, perhaps it was the liquor and quality vegetables (even thought a small amount). There may be other things like CoQ10 which is produced by the liver. Maybe they produced a lot of it.

I believe my family has a lot of cholesterol receptors too because no one in my large extended family has ever had heart trouble. Having said that, I am a vegan because I'm trying to avoid getting cancer. Imagine, I could be eating all the meat I want but have to worry about something else besides getting heart trouble. But I don't really miss it. I will have a sardine or two once in a while. I love fruit, vegetables, whole grains and legumes etc..

We must each do what we feel is best for our bodies and our lives. Personally, I don't fare well on lots of fruit, veggies and grains. My body seems to need more protein. If you're doing well, I commend you.
Did Dad and his family have genetics on their side? I'm sure they did, but exactly what helped them live long lives, I don't know with any certainity. Many may be born with genetic predispositions to medical conditions and in these instances, medications can be a Godsend for them. Do you feel there is a genetic predisposition for heart disease in your life?

Every individual is responsible for the vessel that is their body. You are doing what you feel you need must to stay healthy. May you continue to experience good health, live long and prosper... :)

You and I grew up in cities fairly close to each other. Since moving to Florida, I've "met" more people from where I grew up.... kind of nice... ;)

[FMF Doc]

[QUOTE=pooh;457702]Did Dad and his family have genetics on their side? /QUOTE]

I'll bet they didn't worry too much about what they ate or what they were going to die from. Worry and stress along with emotional and spirtual sickness take a big toll in our lives.


Redd Foxx had a good quote on healthy people laying in hospitals dying of nothing.

[pooh]

[QUOTE=pooh;457702]Did Dad and his family have genetics on their side? /QUOTE]

I'll bet they didn't worry too much about what they ate or what they were going to die from. Worry and stress along with emotional and spirtual sickness take a big toll in our lives.


Redd Foxx had a good quote on healthy people laying in hospitals dying of nothing.

So true, emotional well being helps in maintaining physical well being. Just as one can will themselves to live, they can will their life to end.

Questions in the survey asked about emotional well being in a fashion....many older adults do deal with depression from various causes.

Personally, I didn't find the survey to be particularly invasive privacy wise....questions asked are like questions physicians might ask their older patients. People did not have to respond, those that did might not have necessarily give accurate answers, either. Unless the response is overwhelming, I'm not sure the results will be conclusive. Time will tell.

[SALYBOW]

I view this completely different. Maybe if you choose to eat in this manner then exercise more with the wonderful free programs the Villages offer to us. I enjoy visiting the health center once a week to see my progress in my BMI. It's all free to all of us! Take advantage of this so we can all hope to live a long fulfilled healthy life.
Patti
Village of Pennecamp

Where is this health center? How much does it cost to go to the exercise centers? Do you pay by the month or the year?

[Villages PL]

Do you feel there is a genetic predisposition for heart disease in your life?

No, not at all. As a matter of fact, my arteries are so clean and flexable that my normal resting blood pressure is 100/50. I just need to make sure I stay well hydrated during the night or else it may go too low. But I'm used to it.

May you continue to experience good health, live long and prosper... :)

Thanks, I wish you the same. :wave: