Would welfare be a thing of the past?.. if:

[jebartle]

food stamps receipients get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash
for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want
steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Medicaid. get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal legations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. If you want to reproduce or use
drugs, alcohol, or smoke, then get a job.

housing. Ever live in a military barracks?

You will maintain your property in a clean and good state of repair.
Your home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week
or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways
of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the "common good.."

Violatimg someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you
say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider
that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing
absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at
least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes,
that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov't
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

This was written by a 21 year old.

[rubicon]

I believe I understand what you are saying. I believe you are saying or suggesting that instead of giving a person a " hand out" we give them a "hand up". The only concern I have with this is just what government agency do you believe is capable of effectively dealing with this scenario?

[Happinow]

Well said. But I don't agree with the no voting. Everyone has the right to vote. It doesn't cost anything to go pull some levers.

As for the welfare state of the country in general, I currently live in a pretty depressed area. Once I saw a women who received public assistance, in the grocery checkout line with one of them large birthday sheet cakes. The kind that would feed 15 people. It seemed that if she couldn't afford it with her own money that Betty Crocker puts the cake mix in a box then we just add water and eggs for about 2 dollars. Then I saw a women in a grocery store with a lot of really good food....shrimp, cocktail sauce, ya know kinda fancy stuff. Then she pulled her benefits card out. I got so mad I think I had steam coming out of my ears. This is a really sore subject for me and I could go on and on about what I see in my area but it makes me too mad.

There's a lot of 16 year olds walking multiple babies in carriages too. The more children they have, the more money they get from you and I. Birth control should be mandatory for them and it should be free to everyone.

[waynet]

As long as we go where the real money is and that is corporate welfare some of what you say might have merit.

[Penguin]

Does my heart good knowing that there are young people in this country not willing to let it go to the dogs. Way to go young man!!!!

[RichieLion]

I'm a bit surprised by this thread. I don't often applaud you Jeb, but I do now.

The safety net should not be a hammock, a wise man said.

[Hal :-)]

Oh boy. I can't let this pass.

It looks like this was actually written by a retired Army Sergeant from Gatesville, Texas. Published as a letter to the editor in the Waco Tribune, Nov 18, 2010 (Google it).

No offense, but I'm betting you go to the mailbox to pick up your check(s) every month.

I, for one, appreciate the struggle young people face today, I've never known anyone on welfare, but I know everyone I do know would be totally destroyed to even ask for help.

That said, it's time to appreciate OUR situation. We have 14 million unemployed, or underemployed. A ruling class that only wants to cut social programs to support the military-industrial complex and corporate welfare.

Personally, I am scared to death reading about Iran these days. Deja Vu all over again. We have pursued so many unnecessary wars since WWII. We attacked Iraq under the pretext of WMD, which they denied. It turned out, after $1 trillion, 4000 American dead, a destroyed country, and an estimated 100,000 Iraqi dead, that, indeed, there were no WMDs. All we did was enrich Haliburton and the rest.

Here we are again. Iran denies trying to produce a nuclear weapon (you can't prove a negative). Even Panetta has said Tehran hasn't decided on a bomb yet. Is there any question where we're heading?

We spend more on the Military that the rest of the world COMBINED! We give them the budget and they have to justify it. Meanwhile, China runs around the world buying oil rich real estate and copper mines in Afghanistan. Are we stupid or what?

Let's wake up. Poor people are not the biggest problem we face.

Sorry to get political. It probably doesn't matter, I expect this posted to be deleted by Admin anyway.

[RichieLion]

Oh boy. I can't let this pass.

It looks like this was actually written by a retired Army Sergeant from Gatesville, Texas. Published as a letter to the editor in the Waco Tribune, Nov 18, 2010 (Google it).

No offense, but I'm betting you go to the mailbox to pick up your check(s) every month.

I, for one, appreciate the struggle young people face today, I've never known anyone on welfare, but I know everyone I do know would be totally destroyed to even ask for help.

That said, it's time to appreciate OUR situation. We have 14 million unemployed, or underemployed. A ruling class that only wants to cut social programs to support the military-industrial complex and corporate welfare.

Personally, I am scared to death reading about Iran these days. Deja Vu all over again. We have pursued so many unnecessary wars since WWII. We attacked Iraq under the pretext of WMD, which they denied. It turned out, after $1 trillion, 4000 American dead, a destroyed country, and an estimated 100,000 Iraqi dead, that, indeed, there were no WMDs. All we did was enrich Haliburton and the rest.

Here we are again. Iran denies trying to produce a nuclear weapon (you can't prove a negative). Even Panetta has said Tehran hasn't decided on a bomb yet. Is there any question where we're heading?

We spend more on the Military that the rest of the world COMBINED! We give them the budget and they have to justify it. Meanwhile, China runs around the world buying oil rich real estate and copper mines in Afghanistan. Are we stupid or what?

Let's wake up. Poor people are not the biggest problem we face.

Sorry to get political. It probably doesn't matter, I expect this posted to be deleted by Admin anyway.

Why do you think this would be deleted? You're only stating your opinion and no more than that.

[philnpat]

No offense, but I'm betting you go to the mailbox to pick up your check(s) every month.

Hal...
I believe our social security checks are funded by our past employers and from our own pockets. It's income that we've earned and saved through our working careers. I take offense at your suggestion that it is comparable to a form of welfare.

[graciegirl]

As long as we go where the real money is and that is corporate welfare some of what you say might have merit.

I don't understand your post.

[graciegirl]

Does my heart good knowing that there are young people in this country not willing to let it go to the dogs. Way to go young man!!!!

I kinda doubt that it was written by a young man. But Boy are there valid points.

Pride and the work ethic. And saving. And not taking from others...and planning, and not having to have it right now. And doing without until you can afford it. Those are things I understand.

That doesn't mean that there aren't people on welfare who need it, but oh is that program abused. ABUSED. And we who have worked longer than eight hour days all of our lives and saved and did things to further our money like cook and clean our own homes and clip coupons and cut our kids hair and sew and not just charge things...are going outa style real quick.

This probably should be in political. But good common sense is not limited to either party and missing in both.

[Moderator]

So far, this discussion has stayed civil, on topic, and not too deeply into heated political debate.

As long as it remains so, it will stay in General where more readers will have a chance to read and participate.

However, if the discussion becomes rancorous or too political, it will be moved to the subscriber-only political forum.

[The Villager II]

Being a staunch Conservative, I support this message.

[allus70]

Percentage of Program Beneficiaries Who Report They “Have Not Used a Government Social Program”
Program “No, Have Not Used a

Government Social Program”

529 or Coverdell 64.3
Home Mortgage Interest Deduction 60.0
Hope or Lifetime Learning Tax Credit 59.6
Student Loans 53.3
Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit 51.7
Earned Income Tax Credit 47.1
Social Security—Retirement & Survivors 44.1
Pell Grants 43.1
Unemployment Insurance 43.0
Veterans Benefits (other than G.I. Bill) 41.7
G.I. Bill 40.3
Medicare 39.8
Head Start 37.2
Social Security Disability 28.7
Supplemental Security Income 28.2
Medicaid 27.8
Welfare/Public Assistance 27.4
Government Subsidized Housing 27.4
Food Stamps 25.4
Source: Suzanne Mettler, “Reconstituting the Submerged State: The Challenge of Social Policy

[Hal :-)]

No offense, but I'm betting you go to the mailbox to pick up your check(s) every month.

Hal...
I believe our social security checks are funded by our past employers and from our own pockets. It's income that we've earned and saved through our working careers. I take offense at your suggestion that it is comparable to a form of welfare.

Agreed. My point was simply that life is good for those of us getting Social Security, pensions, or other no-stings income. But I think it's easy to miss the "real" world outside our bubble. By some measures this may be the first generation to leave the children worse off. Frankly, we had it good during the the age of the Great American Empire . Who knows what the future holds.

[jebartle]

See we all have common ground, irregardless of party.....:bigbow::bigbow:

[buggyone]

Your Social Security contribution was about 7% of your pay. Chances are (a Johnny Mathis song?) that your lifetime benefits from Social Security will greatly out do your contributions.

I know in the case of my 20% VA disability check that it has paid me a heck of a lot more in the 40 years that I have been out of the Army than all the monthly salary checks I received during the 3 years in the Army.

My mother received survivor benefit check for about 30 years from the government after my father passed away. I am sure that was more than he earned during his time as a government employee.

Figure it out. If you worked for 40 years with an average salary of $35,000, you would have contributed $105,000 (at 7.5%) to FICA. You start collecting at age 62 and live until 80. That is 18 years. The first $5,800 per year is what you contributed. I read the average SS pay check is $1600 per month. That is $19,200 per year or $13,400 MORE than what was contributed. No, your Social Security benefits are far more than what you ever paid into the system! Social Security is a form of government welfare! Quit complaining about welfare until you start returning all the excess of your Social Security check.

[philnpat]

Your Social Security contribution was about 7% of your pay. Chances are (a Johnny Mathis song?) that your lifetime benefits from Social Security will greatly out do your contributions.

I know in the case of my 20% VA disability check that it has paid me a heck of a lot more in the 40 years that I have been out of the Army than all the monthly salary checks I received during the 3 years in the Army.

My mother received survivor benefit check for about 30 years from the government after my father passed away. I am sure that was more than he earned during his time as a government employee.

Figure it out. If you worked for 40 years with an average salary of $35,000, you would have contributed $105,000 (at 7.5%) to FICA. You start collecting at age 62 and live until 80. That is 18 years. The first $5,800 per year is what you contributed. I read the average SS pay check is $1600 per month. That is $19,200 per year or $13,400 MORE than what was contributed. No, your Social Security benefits are far more than what you ever paid into the system! Social Security is a form of government welfare! Quit complaining about welfare until you start returning all the excess of your Social Security check.

I, as of yet, have not started collecting SS...it's not guaranteed...tomorrow I might not survive a roundabout and would not collect anything!

[ceejay]

I have a question....

What happens to the money in the Social Security fund that is NOT distributed to its' rightful beneficiary?

Case in point...my husband died at age 53 after paying into it for his whole life. All I received from Social Security was a $250 death benefit. Whip-de-do.

I'm sure that there are many, many people who died whose family never saw a cent of that money.

Yes, I know that survivors with young children receive it until they reach a certain age. Or that I can collect on it when I turn 62 as long as I don't remarry (which is another discussion).

I wonder what the funds are in that category...any answers?

[jbdlfan]

Your Social Security contribution was about 7% of your pay. Chances are (a Johnny Mathis song?) that your lifetime benefits from Social Security will greatly out do your contributions.

I know in the case of my 20% VA disability check that it has paid me a heck of a lot more in the 40 years that I have been out of the Army than all the monthly salary checks I received during the 3 years in the Army.

My mother received survivor benefit check for about 30 years from the government after my father passed away. I am sure that was more than he earned during his time as a government employee.

Figure it out. If you worked for 40 years with an average salary of $35,000, you would have contributed $105,000 (at 7.5%) to FICA. You start collecting at age 62 and live until 80. That is 18 years. The first $5,800 per year is what you contributed. I read the average SS pay check is $1600 per month. That is $19,200 per year or $13,400 MORE than what was contributed. No, your Social Security benefits are far more than what you ever paid into the system! Social Security is a form of government welfare! Quit complaining about welfare until you start returning all the excess of your Social Security check.

You stole my thunder! Many will take more than they ever paid in.
The whole idea of drug testing for Welfare should scare the daylights out of everyone. Am I the only one that sees that as an invasion of privacy and giving up our personal liberties? I don't do drugs and have no plans to ever do them. But I certainly don't want the taxpayers paying for a drug test. Hey, how about testing college students in order to get student loans and grants. I know, how about we test for the Homestaed Exemption (we'll check vision and alchohol for that one) or teachers and firefighters.....I'd suggest Congress, but I actually agree with that one!

[KayakerNC]

I have a question....
What happens to the money in the Social Security fund that is NOT distributed to its' rightful beneficiary?
Case in point...my husband died at age 53 after paying into it for his whole life. All I received from Social Security was a $250 death benefit. Whip-de-do.
I'm sure that there are many, many people who died whose family never saw a cent of that money.
Yes, I know that survivors with young children receive it until they reach a certain age. Or that I can collect on it when I turn 62 as long as I don't remarry (which is another discussion).
I wonder what the funds are in that category...any answers?

You could consider it a mortality credit AKA mortality yield. Contributions paid by those who die earlier than expected contribute to the overall pool and help provide an increased return to survivors.
Too bad the "Lock Box" doesn't have a politician proof lock.

[kandj]

I paid Social Security contributions for the last 45yrs through a payroll tax. This paid for my parents ss. Now it is my time. I went without a lot of things. Worked two jobs of 40hr overtime sometimes, seven days a week sometimes both. I got layed-off sometimes, so I took anything I could find even at a lot less pay than what I had been making.
My son went to college. When he left 911 happened so he enlisted. He makes about 45K a yr with BAH and has to pay taxes on it He has a wife and two childen. If he was on welfare, he would get housing paid for. Food card so that is paid for. He does not get that. Utilites like oil heat and electric they don't pay him for that.They give a cell phoneto welfare recipients too. He dose not get that. And in most cases they get 15K or more for spending money. He does not get that. Clothing allowance for Kids - He does not get that. He is drug tested, if he test positive he gets housing in Levenworth. Alcohol - 3 beers in one 24hr time he will lose good conduct and a pay raise and could be kicked out.His Wife can not work a regular job becase he can be called on duty anytime and has to go. He can be relocated anywere at anytime they want him too. Sometimes he will joke that welfare might be a raise in his economic ladder.
Most of our service members live like this and noone worries about their feeling or self-esteem. Military families are providing us with a service. Why should welfare famlies live better than the military families? Something is VERY wrong with this picture!

God Bless are military members and their families.
Jim

[buggyone]

CeeJay,

Are you sure you were not entitled to any Social Security at the time of your husband's passing away and you have to wait until you are 62?

One of my friends was killed in a store robbery many years ago. His two sons (6 and 8) were paid monthly benefits until they got to college. His widow found a boyfriend and has continued living with him for about 27 years now - never married. I don't know if this was soley because SS benefits would stop for the boys if she remarried or if she was also getting SS benefits.

I know several people here in The Villages living together but not married for reasons of alimony, pensions, or Social Security benefits.

[janmcn]

Widow's benefits start at age 60 is what I recollect.

[Hal :-)]

......
Figure it out. If you worked for 40 years with an average salary of $35,000, you would have contributed $105,000 (at 7.5%) to FICA. You start collecting at age 62 and live until 80. That is 18 years. The first $5,800 per year is what you contributed. I read the average SS pay check is $1600 per month. That is $19,200 per year or $13,400 MORE than what was contributed. No, your Social Security benefits are far more than what you ever paid into the system! Social Security is a form of government welfare! Quit complaining about welfare until you start returning all the excess of your Social Security check.

I accept your calculation but Social Security is an Insurance program, just like private industry. The I in FICA is Insurance. Private insurance companies turn premiums into benefits everyday. It's their job to keep it in balance. Social Security was designed to do the same. The FICA "Premiums" are exactly like private insurance premiums. They come from after-tax dollars. On the benefit side, just like private insurance, some win, some lose.

By law Social Security must be actuarially sound. They can not borrow money. Hence, in recognition of the impending Boomer Bubble, excess contributions were collected and the system is set to pay full benefits for about the next 30 years. Sadly, most of us will no longer be around at that point.

To your point, some of us may not need the full benefit and maybe it should be limited or completely eliminated. My classic example is Ronald Reagan. When he took office at age 70, he reach max benefit and his checks automatically arrived at the White House every month. Clearly, he was entitled, since he paid the premiums all those years. But, maybe there's a better way.