Obama's groveling to Islam is really paying dividends.

[Guest]

A supporter of the Human Rights Network group wears a mask of U.S President Barack Obama with a noose around his neck while holding the U.S flag during an anti-American rally in Karachi | View photo - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/supporter-human-rights-network-group-wears-mask-u-photo-151025752.html)

[Guest]

I guess Obama will be using the same response to the economy and how his jobs programs are working for his apology for the Koran being burned.
"it could have been worse"

The problem is this time he will have not saved or created anything.

Lets see, a book gets burned and Americans die. A little overkill to me.

Good plan Obama!

Three have died so far and more to come I am sure.

[Guest]

I guess Obama will be using the same response to the economy and how his jobs programs are working for his apology for the Koran being burned.
"it could have been worse"

The problem is this time he will have not saved or created anything.

Lets see, a book gets burned and Americans die. A little overkill to me.

Good plan Obama!

Three have died so far and more to come I am sure.

It would have been 30 without the needed apology. Burning their bible was a crude mistake and should have came with an apology.

[Guest]

It would have been 30 without the needed apology. Burning their bible was a crude mistake and should have came with an apology.

I can see that you are an ardent student of Niccolo Machiavelli and hsi Treastie "The Prince" .............Kool

[Guest]

It would have been 30 without the needed apology. Burning their bible was a crude mistake and should have came with an apology.


I bet that is as easy to track and verify as the jobs!

So when does someone apologize to use for all the deaths, flag burning, bible burning and hatred?

Why are we even still there?

[Guest]

It would have been 30 without the needed apology. Burning their bible was a crude mistake and should have came with an apology.

You have a link or source to back up that statement or is it just another one of your "honest opinions"?

[Guest]

There was a saying among us over in the Nam, "Kill them all, let God sort them out." Seems that would work really go over in that neck of the woods.

[Guest]

Obama's lofty opinion of what he thinks he wields. Going on four years now and one would think he would understand that words and optics do not work outside the USA.

Apologies were made by those in charge. Obama added zero value.....again.

btk

[Guest]

You know obama wants to be in muslim country so get the h out of the US and lets try to get this country back I'm sick of hearing about obama get him out Newt can do a better job. Sorry I'm ok now

[Guest]

I thought Islam was a peaceful religion.....

[Guest]

I thought Islam was a peaceful religion.....

I suppose the same comment could be made about any religion. I thought Christianity was a peaceful religion but how many people were killed in the crusades or during WWII by the Nazis (all christians). What we often forget is that while religions profess peace and peaceful relations, there are a lot of bad people in the world who often try to hide behind religion or profess to do God's will even though they are doing their own will.

Re the apology, I thought the Bible teaches one to turn the other cheek and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. By apologizing isn't President Obama, in fact, doing exactly what is taught by all the Judeo-Christian and Islamic holy books?

[Guest]

You know obama wants to be in muslim country so get the h out of the US and lets try to get this country back I'm sick of hearing about obama get him out Newt can do a better job. Sorry I'm ok now

No, you're not. :smiley:

[Guest]

You know obama wants to be in muslim country so get the h out of the US and lets try to get this country back I'm sick of hearing about obama get him out Newt can do a better job. Sorry I'm ok now





Newt can't even win his own Party's nomination !!! His own Party prefers a wackaddo like Sanitarium over Newt.

Trouble with Newt is that he is always the dumbest person in the room.

Anyway, the White House doesn't have enough bedrooms to accommodate all of Newt's mistresses, girlfriends, ex-wives - and whatever else it is he messes around with.

[Guest]

I thought Islam was a peaceful religion.....




Bet you also thought Christianity was a peaceful religion to, hu?

Abortion Doctor Killed By Christian Fundamentalist

Abortion Doctor Killed By Christian Fundamentalist (1/2) - YouTube

[Guest]

I suppose the same comment could be made about any religion. I thought Christianity was a peaceful religion but how many people were killed in the crusades or during WWII by the Nazis (all christians). What we often forget is that while religions profess peace and peaceful relations, there are a lot of bad people in the world who often try to hide behind religion or profess to do God's will even though they are doing their own will.

Re the apology, I thought the Bible teaches one to turn the other cheek and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. By apologizing isn't President Obama, in fact, doing exactly what is taught by all the Judeo-Christian and Islamic holy books?

I realize that bad people hide behind a religion to do their bad things. Christianity is founded on a doctrine of love. You might want to brush up on some history of the Third Reich. They were not Christians. Any pastor who dared to continue preaching the Gospel of Jesus, was "removed" from his pulpit.

Persecution of Christians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#Nazi_Germany)

Talking about the Crusades, you might want to do some research on that also. Not defending the Christians on this one, but most of their fighting was to defend against the Islamic attempt to convert or be killed/take over of the world.
http://www.firstprinciplesjournal.com/articles.aspx?article=1483

[Guest]

Bet you also thought Christianity was a peaceful religion to, hu?

Abortion Doctor Killed By Christian Fundamentalist

Abortion Doctor Killed By Christian Fundamentalist (1/2) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miTk8PU8Oh0)

I doubt that this guy was a true follower of Jesus, or a true PRO-LIFER. His actions do not meet the definition of a Christian Fundamentalist.

[Guest]

People who talk about the Crusades are dealers in antiquity. How many hundreds of years ago was that? (The Crusades did turn back Islam from it's dreams of world conquest, so maybe we should be examining it after all) But it's not the modern day Church and hasn't been for hundreds of years.

Also to bring up one guy, or even two guys, who are bad actors and happen to be Christian or have a warped idea of Christianity is still stupid as it doesn't reflect a Christian tenet.

Nazi's???...........seriously, Nazi's???...........Are you saying that the Fascist Nazi's attempt at world domination and the extermination of all who weren't Aryan was a "Christian Movement".............are you really trying to make that correlation????

Now Islam, there you have a religion that preaches the destruction of all that isn't part of their religion. It preaches the death of all who would leave that religion. To equate this violent religion with modern day Christianity is indicative of an ignorance of great proportion.

[Guest]

Play-offs? Play-offs?....Are you kidding me? ... Play-offs? :doh:

[Guest]

Richie: Hitler often used Christianity in his speeches. Among other things, Jews were considered the tools of Satan and to be persecuted for killing Christ.

From Mein Kampf:

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."


From the German Worker's Party (pre-Nazi name) 25-point "Programme":

24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest.


From Hitler's speech in Munich on 4/12/1922:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.


I could go on.

One major difference, though, is that many Christians rose up to defeat this guy - self-policing, if you will. There's not nearly enough of that in Islam - at least not yet.

[Guest]

You certainly could go on! Go ahead and quote Adolf's wicked book all day long, if you like. It is just another example of a false sheperd leading sheep astray. That doesn't change the fact that none of the quotes are in line with sound Biblical doctrine...hence, you can call the Nazis rhodedenrums, but don't expect them to ever pollinate!

[Guest]

i suppose the same comment could be made about any religion. I thought christianity was a peaceful religion but how many people were killed in the crusades or during wwii by the nazis (all christians). What we often forget is that while religions profess peace and peaceful relations, there are a lot of bad people in the world who often try to hide behind religion or profess to do god's will even though they are doing their own will.

Re the apology, i thought the bible teaches one to turn the other cheek and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. By apologizing isn't president obama, in fact, doing exactly what is taught by all the judeo-christian and islamic holy books?

bingo

[Guest]

Richie: Hitler often used Christianity in his speeches. Among other things, Jews were considered the tools of Satan and to be persecuted for killing Christ.

From Mein Kampf:


From the German Worker's Party (pre-Nazi name) 25-point "Programme":


From Hitler's speech in Munich on 4/12/1922:


I could go on.

One major difference, though, is that many Christians rose up to defeat this guy - self-policing, if you will. There's not nearly enough of that in Islam - at least not yet.

Big freakin' deal!!........Was Hitler endorsed by the Church???

Get real DJ.

[Guest]

Big freakin' deal!!........Was Hitler endorsed by the Church???

Get real DJ.

Some argue that Pius XII's silence was an endorsement. Just throwing that out. No opinion on it myself.

[Guest]

Richie: Which one?

The Catholic church who have never really lived down their silence on the matter? (To be fair, I'm not sure what to really make of that)

He said he was Christian - and got a lot of people following him in a very Christian country. Of course he's not what most people think of when they think of the "typical Christian" - but my point was that just wearing the label "Christian" doesn't make you better than others.

If I remember the passage correctly - "by their actions, ye shall know them".

[Guest]

Richie: Which one?

The Catholic church who have never really lived down their silence on the matter? (To be fair, I'm not sure what to really make of that)

He said he was Christian - and got a lot of people following him in a very Christian country. Of course he's not what most people think of when they think of the "typical Christian" - but my point was that just wearing the label "Christian" doesn't make you better than others.

If I remember the passage correctly - "by their actions, ye shall know them".

So maybe they should have destroyed the Church as well as the Third Reich? What in blazes are you talking about? To equate Nazi Germany with the Church is a despicable thing.

[Guest]

Richie: Which one?

The Catholic church who have never really lived down their silence on the matter? (To be fair, I'm not sure what to really make of that)

He said he was Christian - and got a lot of people following him in a very Christian country. Of course he's not what most people think of when they think of the "typical Christian" - but my point was that just wearing the label "Christian" doesn't make you better than others.

If I remember the passage correctly - "by their actions, ye shall know them".

Wearing the "label" of Christian doesn't even make you a Christian.
1 Samuel 16:77 But the Lord said..., “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees;[a] for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

Being a Christian doesn't mak you better than others either.
Romans 3:22-24
22 This righteousness is given through faith in[a] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

The passage you seek regarding knowing us by our actions is possibly this one.
John 13:3535 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

I think that Pope John II apologized for their lack of action during the Holocaust. However, the Church is an organization comprised of many members. Each one of these Christians have choices to make each day. Many Christians lost their lives to defending and hiding Jews, smuggling them to freedom, etc. Get a copy of Bonhoeffer, the biography of a Lutheran pastor who was executed by the Third Reich for his work to help Jews. Read the Hiding Place, an autobiography of a 54 year old Dutch lady, Corrie Ten Boom. She and her 80 year old father and 60 year old sister provide food, hiding and smuggled Jews out of Nazi occupied Holland. They were Christians in the Dutch Reformed Church. Both her father and sister died in the camps, but Corrie survived almost 2 years doing hard labor. When she was released, she lived to be 90 years old, travelling the world telling of the love of God. After the war was over, she met a former Nazi soldier who asked her for forgiveness. Which she gave to him!

My question is this-Which one of us would stand against the persecution of our Jewish neighbors? Which one of us would risk it all for the life of our neighbor or even a wrongly persecuted stranger in our midst? I for one cannot say what I would do, and I hope that I never am faced with the choice. Therefore, I have no right to judge the Catholic church, heirarchy OR common members, for whatever their response was, when they watched idlely by as their friends, neighbors, countrymen were herded off in the middle of the night and never seen again.

Here's another scripture reference for you-When the men brought an adulterous woman to Jesus to seek her punishment, Jesus looked at them all and ...John 8:7-11 He said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
“No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

[Guest]

I thought Islam was a peaceful religion.....

where did you ever get that idea?

[Guest]

Richie: Hitler often used Christianity in his speeches. Among other things, Jews were considered the tools of Satan and to be persecuted for killing Christ.

From Mein Kampf:


From the German Worker's Party (pre-Nazi name) 25-point "Programme":


From Hitler's speech in Munich on 4/12/1922:


I could go on.

One major difference, though, is that many Christians rose up to defeat this guy - self-policing, if you will. There's not nearly enough of that in Islam - at least not yet.

I presume that you will agree that sharia law is radical and bad?

Islam is sharia law. Ergo Islam is radical and bad.

I think it's that simple.

[Guest]

where did you ever get that idea?

Uh...just my attempt at sarcasm..

[Guest]

Not knowing all about Sharia law, I can't comment. The closest thing I *do* know a *little* about would be some of the Jewish kashrut (learned by osmosis from working for an observant Jew and becoming friends with him and his family over the course of 7 years).

There are aspects of Sharia law I've heard of that are clearly over the line. But, there's nothing wrong with writing a business contract stipulating, for example, that work will only be done during certain hours.

It goes over the line when stipulations start violating someone's rights - especially those that the court says you cannot sign away (as an example, you cannot sell yourself into slavery in this country).

The Bible itself has verses stating when it's ok to sell your kids into slavery and when you're allowed to stone your wife to death. If someone looked at that and said "Bible bad, Bible is Christianity, therefore Christianity bad", you'd disagree - with good reason.

Sharia doesn't apply to me and I will oppose any effort to make it so. The same holds true for the kashrut and many of the things in the Bible.

[Guest]

So maybe they should have destroyed the Church as well as the Third Reich? What in blazes are you talking about? To equate Nazi Germany with the Church is a despicable thing.

Now you have a great Idea. Lets use all we have learned in the past, destroy all current religions and start a new one that will be good for man kind.

[Guest]

Now you have a great Idea. Lets use all we have learned in the past, destroy all current religions and start a new one that will be good for man kind.

Good luck with that. I also think you need to look up the definition of "faith".

[Guest]

Good luck with that. I also think you need to look up the definition of "faith".

I have faith in GOD, not some perverted man made religion.

[Guest]

I have faith in GOD, not some perverted man made religion.

Your hate for other people is truly incredible.

[Guest]

Your hate for other people is truly incredible.

I love everyone except those that prey on other people like perverted priests. I have more respect for an armed robber than any Religious figure that take advantage of the week. Church leaders should be small and local as they become evil when they get large congregations.

[Guest]

I love everyone except those that prey on other people like perverted priests. I have more respect for an armed robber than any Religious figure that take advantage of the week. Church leaders should be small and local as they become evil when they get large congregations.

Sorry to see that you would give an armed robber any level of respect.

[Guest]

Richie - an honest question for you.

Would you believe me if I told you how hurt I was when I found out that it wasn't just Cardinal Law covering up for the pedophile priests in Boston? I remember having a discussion with some friends about how this would NEVER have happened under his predecessor, Cardinal Cushing.

...then the news broke, some weeks later, that Cushing was just as guilty as Law.

Until that point, I was hanging my hopes on Law being a 'rogue', if you take my meaning. The more the story broke, the more reams of documents that were turned over after the Church denying they existed... The more my heart broke and the more angry I became.

In all honesty, I think the thing I hated the most about all that (on a personal level) is how it tarnishes my memories of the good priests I grew up with. Though I was never molested in any way, the actions of those criminals planted doubt in my mind. I keep telling myself that Father Mike and Father Houde and others were just as good people after the revelations (which never had anything to do with them) as they were in my mind before.. But it's not easy.

[Guest]

Est-li failb ?(Is he weak?) Nicolas Skarzoy....Boy did he have Obama pegged.

[Guest]

Not knowing all about Sharia law, I can't comment. The closest thing I *do* know a *little* about would be some of the Jewish kashrut (learned by osmosis from working for an observant Jew and becoming friends with him and his family over the course of 7 years).

There are aspects of Sharia law I've heard of that are clearly over the line. But, there's nothing wrong with writing a business contract stipulating, for example, that work will only be done during certain hours.

It goes over the line when stipulations start violating someone's rights - especially those that the court says you cannot sign away (as an example, you cannot sell yourself into slavery in this country).

The Bible itself has verses stating when it's ok to sell your kids into slavery and when you're allowed to stone your wife to death. If someone looked at that and said "Bible bad, Bible is Christianity, therefore Christianity bad", you'd disagree - with good reason.

Sharia doesn't apply to me and I will oppose any effort to make it so. The same holds true for the kashrut and many of the things in the Bible.

Would you care to give us the locations of these verses (in bold from your quote) and the context in which they were written?

[Guest]

OK DJ, fine. You and Villager have lots of hate for the Catholic Church. I get it and find it appalling. You take every single opportunity to bash the Church, so don't deny it.

You're the same person who defends Islam at every opportunity and defends their "holy book, the Koran.

I'm shakin' my head DJ, I'm shakin' my head.

[Guest]

Richie - an honest question for you.

Would you believe me if I told you how hurt I was when I found out that it wasn't just Cardinal Law covering up for the pedophile priests in Boston? I remember having a discussion with some friends about how this would NEVER have happened under his predecessor, Cardinal Cushing.

...then the news broke, some weeks later, that Cushing was just as guilty as Law.

Until that point, I was hanging my hopes on Law being a 'rogue', if you take my meaning. The more the story broke, the more reams of documents that were turned over after the Church denying they existed... The more my heart broke and the more angry I became.

In all honesty, I think the thing I hated the most about all that (on a personal level) is how it tarnishes my memories of the good priests I grew up with. Though I was never molested in any way, the actions of those criminals planted doubt in my mind. I keep telling myself that Father Mike and Father Houde and others were just as good people after the revelations (which never had anything to do with them) as they were in my mind before.. But it's not easy.

This begs the question- Was/Is your faith in the Church of God OR the God of the Church? God's people are flawed, imperfect, perverse, wicked, hurtful people. BUT the greatest news of all time is that GOD LOVES EACH AND EVERYONE OF US FLAWED, IMPERFECT, PERVERSE, WICKED, HURTFUL PEOPLE. He has offered us FORGIVENESS! If He forgives, who are we not to?! Be angry, be hurt, be brokenhearted, for by so being-you are just the person He gave His life for. Open your tightly clenched fists and give all the pain and anger to Him. Don't hang your hopes on any people-Our hope is built on nothing less than Jesus love and His Righteousness. All other ground is sinking sand, djplong! ...as you well know. Only the Love of God in Christ will never let you down. Cast your cares on Him, for He cares for you!

[Guest]

OK DJ, fine. You and Villager have lots of hate for the Catholic Church. I get it and find it appalling. You take every single opportunity to bash the Church, so don't deny it.

You're the same person who defends Islam at every opportunity and defends their "holy book, the Koran.

I'm shakin' my head DJ, I'm shakin' my head.

I feel you take every opportunity to trash anyone that differs from you on ANY issue. I am shakin my head Richie, I am shakin my head.

[Guest]

Sorry to see that you would give an armed robber any level of respect.

I don't have respect for robber, I mean to say that I would give them the edge over a priest that uses his position the rape young boys. I hope you have the same Disrespect for priests that do that to little boys.

[Guest]

Richie, to be honest, I'm a little surprised at you. Have you missed or deliberately ignored every occasion where I have been VERY deliberate in stating what I find *good* in the Church (specifically the people I had personal interactions with)?

Yeah, I have a major beef with people like Ratzinger and Law. Have you wondered maybe WHY I'm so mad at them? Because they are a *cancer* in an institution that shouldn't be dragged down by their kind. Any other issues I have with the Church are rather minor in comparison - some are amusing if you look at them in the right light (like how not too many Catholics know what the Immaculate Conception really was - hint: it wasn't the angel visiting Mary).

I point out the double standards. Go ahead and read Exodus 21 and tell me how "enlightened" that is. Especially verses 20-21 where you can beat your slave so long as they don't die within a couple of days!

Yeah, you can find all kinds of violence in the Koran, but don't pretend the Bible doesn't contain the same kinds of passages that can be used to justify abhorrent behavior.

I wonder how many people who want to display the Ten Commandments in public buildings and use tax money for the displays even KNOW where they are in the Bible. Hint: It's the chapter right before the instructions on how to handle your slaves, Exodus 20.

How about the Bible-endorsed racism? If you have *Hebrew* slaves, you have to set them free in the Year of Jubilee - gentile slaves are to be passed on like an inheritance.

Again, it's the *double standard* that I object to. I support that crazy Constitutional idea of "Equal Protection Under the Law".

[Guest]

Some folks have the need to twist everything you say for their personal benefit. I also believe with all my heart that without religion and church leaders, this world would be much worse off; however, to condone through silence the vicious things done in the name of God behind the walls of Church's and in the pulpit needs to be addressed with stronger measures and stop overlooking it because it is the Church.

[Guest]

Richie, to be honest, I'm a little surprised at you. Have you missed or deliberately ignored every occasion where I have been VERY deliberate in stating what I find *good* in the Church (specifically the people I had personal interactions with)?

Yeah, I have a major beef with people like Ratzinger and Law. Have you wondered maybe WHY I'm so mad at them? Because they are a *cancer* in an institution that shouldn't be dragged down by their kind. Any other issues I have with the Church are rather minor in comparison - some are amusing if you look at them in the right light (like how not too many Catholics know what the Immaculate Conception really was - hint: it wasn't the angel visiting Mary).

I point out the double standards. Go ahead and read Exodus 21 and tell me how "enlightened" that is. Especially verses 20-21 where you can beat your slave so long as they don't die within a couple of days!

Yeah, you can find all kinds of violence in the Koran, but don't pretend the Bible doesn't contain the same kinds of passages that can be used to justify abhorrent behavior.

I wonder how many people who want to display the Ten Commandments in public buildings and use tax money for the displays even KNOW where they are in the Bible. Hint: It's the chapter right before the instructions on how to handle your slaves, Exodus 20.

How about the Bible-endorsed racism? If you have *Hebrew* slaves, you have to set them free in the Year of Jubilee - gentile slaves are to be passed on like an inheritance.

Again, it's the *double standard* that I object to. I support that crazy Constitutional idea of "Equal Protection Under the Law".

When you compare the teachings of the Church of a 1000 years ago to the Islam of today, it's a ludicrous if not ignorant comparison. I'm sorry, but that's the way I see it, notwithstanding your righteous indignation at being called on it.

[Guest]

Some folks have the need to twist everything you say for their personal benefit. I also believe with all my heart that without religion and church leaders, this world would be much worse off; however, to condone through silence the vicious things done in the name of God behind the walls of Church's and in the pulpit needs to be addressed with stronger measures and stop overlooking it because it is the Church.

Your words above have no meaning when compared to the vile invective you spewed in your earlier posts when you spoke of the Church.

[Guest]

Your words above have no meaning when compared to the vile invective you spewed in your earlier posts when you spoke of the Church.

Only in the minds of the slow. People that think and understand deep, get it and agree with me.

[Guest]

Richie, you just made my point.

Can you name a single Christian in favor of slavery as outlined in Exodus 21? Of course not. Neither can I. But it's in the book.

In the same way, not every Muslim is going to take the violence in the Koran to heart. I'll be the first one to grant you that, percentage wise, certain more Muslims *DO* pay attention to those verses.

There's one guy who's a close friend of mine who has some rather negative views about Jews. Another degree or two and I'd say he was racist - largely because of his experiences in the country he grew up (on the other side of the planet). Guess what - he's white and Christian.

You just can't lump people into a group and paint them all with a bad brush. I don't believe all Catholic priests are rapists, that all women are golddiggers, that all men are abusers-in-waiting (heard that from some radical feminist groups), etc.

[Guest]

Well that groveling is now paying off!

After out wonderful president went out to apologize for a MISTAKE and then the Afgans took the apology by killing/murdering many of our soldiers, and now the UN and Afghanistan's leaders are calling for an investigation and punishment for the soldiers that burned the books.

Well, I think they have already got their revenge by murdering our Americans and they can go to hell!

What a great return for the groveling!

I am sure some of you will say it could have been worse. So how many lives would be acceptable to you for this mistake.
Should we start killing them here in the USA for things as minor as this? No I don't think we should!! But I think it is time to put our foot down and say, stop this murder in your country NOW or tomorrow the aide stops and the troops leave and you can all rot in the hell you live in!

What kahunas!!!

[Guest]

Well that groveling is now paying off!

After out wonderful president went out to apologize for a MISTAKE and then the Afgans took the apology by killing/murdering many of our soldiers, and now the UN and Afghanistan's leaders are calling for an investigation and punishment for the soldiers that burned the books.

Well, I think they have already got their revenge by murdering our Americans and they can go to hell!

What a great return for the groveling!

I am sure some of you will say it could have been worse. So how many lives would be acceptable to you for this mistake.
Should we start killing them here in the USA for things as minor as this? No I don't think we should!! But I think it is time to put our foot down and say, stop this murder in your country NOW or tomorrow the aide stops and the troops leave and you can all rot in the hell you live in!

What kahunas!!!

We should have done that after the first two Americans were killed.

How does a human life equal in value to a Koran?

There is absolutely NO comparison...

[Guest]

We should have done that after the first two Americans were killed.

How does a human life equal in value to a Koran?

There is absolutely NO comparison...

Not to us Ceejay, but to these fanatics over there it does. These Muslims are more crazy than all of our Christian fanatics added together. We have our Tim McVeys but they have thousands of them.

[Guest]

We should have done that after the first two Americans were killed.

How does a human life equal in value to a Koran?

There is absolutely NO comparison...

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

[Guest]

:bigbow::bigbow::bigbow:

Not to us Katz, but to these fanatics over there it does. These Muslims are more crazy than all of our Christian fanatics added together. We have our Tim McVeys but they have thousands of them.

[Guest]

Not to us Ceejay, but to these fanatics over there it does. These Muslims are more crazy than all of our Christian fanatics added together. We have our Tim McVeys but they have thousands of them.

All the more reason for us to get the heck out of there.

We are just condoning their behavior..."oh, it's ok...your people are killing our people cause we burned your holy book...but we'll continue to aid and teach you cause what's a few human lives between friends...go ahead, keep killing us...the hell with all the families and friends who have lost their loved ones...your koran is so much more important than they are."

To me, that seems like the message we are sending.

God forbid we make any waves...let's just keep apologizing and offer up our citizens as sacrifices.

Obviously, they don't matter...

[Guest]

All the more reason for us to get the heck out of there.

We are just condoning their behavior..."oh, it's ok...your people are killing our people cause we burned your holy book...but we'll continue to aid and teach you cause what's a few human lives between friends...go ahead, keep killing us...the hell with all the families and friends who have lost their loved ones...your koran is so much more important than they are."

To me, that seems like the message we are sending.

God forbid we make any waves...let's just keep apologizing and offer up our citizens as sacrifices.

Obviously, they don't matter...

Bingo. I am a Viet Nam vet and say strongly WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN THERE. Civil wars should remain within the borders of the country. If the World says lets go then fine, but not one or a few should take the step.

[Guest]

Not to us Katz, but to these fanatics over there it does. These Muslims are more crazy than all of our Christian fanatics added together. We have our Tim McVeys but they have thousands of them.

I find myself in agreement.

I also find myself wondering why. The short version of the conclusion I'm coming to is that there's a lack of economic opportunity. Therefore, religion is the *only* thing these people have. There's nothing else out there for them.

There's an old joke that two countries that have McDonalds have never gone to war with each other. Not sure that's 100% true anymore (Uk/Argentina, etc) but I think the point is made.

[Guest]

I had an Iraqi friend in library school at Denver University. We corresponded a little after he went back to a library in Mosul in 1984. He started going on and on as time went by about our "ungodly country" and all the sins he saw the year or so he lived here in Denver around 1983-1984. I guess he saw that I subscribed to Playboy and drank from time-to-time with the other MA library students.

He had inviting me to visit him in Iraq and see the various ruins of their glory from about 2500 years before. That trip looked more and more unlikely as time went on. The last letter I got from him was around 1985.

This was during the Iran-Iraq war in which he had talked to me about the waves of teens being used as cannon fodder in what was a Holy War to him. It sounded like both sides were using kids as mine sweepers in the marshes that border Iran-Iraq. Not sure how true this was but it sounded like my friend's brother was high up in Saddam Hussein's military. My library school friend had a good source of information about that Iran-Iraq war. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basij http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

Anyway, my point from one close Iraqi friend for about 9 months, is that religion was the highest priority with him. There were other Arabs that hung around with my friend and none of them seemed as fanatical about religion as the Iraqi from Mosul. Seem to remember some Saudis and a few other Arabs of different nationalities.

Cannot remember if he was a Sunni or a Shi'ite but he certainly had a lot of rather sick Kurd jokes. The Kurd jokes kind of really soiled our friendship. From the position of his brother in Hussein's army I assume he was/is a Sunni. The last time I looked he was still a librarian in Mosul. This was a couple of years ago that I checked for his name on various Mosul area library web-sites.

I never met my friend's wife either. Whenever I visited she had to stay in the other room.

Iraq will probably always be a religious state. Kind of hard for some Americans to get how important religion is for many people in the Middle East.

[Guest]

Obama Admits He Is A Muslim - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28)
Great 10 minute video

[Guest]

Obama Admits He Is A Muslim - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28)
Great 10 minute video

Nothing in that video but short clips of statements that all lead up to:

HOWEVER, I AM A CHRISTIAN but the maker left the finished sentences out of the video. Very unethical lies. This is a flawed attempt to discredit Obama for the wrong reasons. He has made mistakes, but this silly Video is a lie and will backfire on anyone that thinks it is a true analysis of Obama's faith. If you can't find something with truth, you are damaging the GOP's chances of winning the election by using these lies as your case.

[Guest]

Obama Admits He Is A Muslim - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28)
Great 10 minute video

Please keep it up! And don't forget to vote Obama in 2012! :smiley:

[Guest]

Please keep it up! And don't forget to vote Obama in 2012! :smiley:

I went to law school at the U of MN (Class of 1989) with the only Congressman who is openly a Muslim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison At least, that's as far as I know.

With Keith Ellison then, you knew he was a Muslim; he never hid that. And, back in 1989, it sounded like he wanted to be on the US Supreme Court. I guess he had to settle-- so far at least-- on a Congressional seat from MN.

If Obama were a Muslim in hiding his Harvard Law classmates probably would have outed him by now. Kind of hard to hide very much in the pressure cooker of law school. With that many eyes of the shrewd and ambitious on you as just about every Harvard Law student would be, there is not much that you could really hide well. The competition to be on a law journal is also extremely intense. It was at MN and I can imagine just how much work it would take to become an Editor of a Harvard Law journal.

I did not know this man personally but had a live-in girlfriend who was also in the U of MN Class of 1990-- the same as Congressman Ellison-- who mentioned him from time-to-time.

[Guest]

I checked out an older CD from the Teaching Courses on the history and religion of Islam and found out just how ignorant I was about this very powerful force in much of the world. Picked up this CD from the Lady Lake PL.

This newer examination of Islam looks very interesting. We all could use more information about this religion.

Great World Religions: Islam (http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=6102)

I did not find this course in any local library though the last time I looked.

An important part of Islam seemed to me to be just how much it seemed to intertwine the religion into the state. Which is what you find in many Arab as well as non-Arab countries. Our Constitution fortunately forbids this establishment of a state religion.