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View Full Version : The Electric Vehicle Debacle


Guest
03-03-2012, 11:59 PM
Friday General Motors announced that it is stopping manufacture of the Chevy Volt for an estimated five weeks. The actual shutdown will probably exceed that since Volt sales are falling far short of projections and GM has approximately 2,500 Volts at dealers and an additional 5,000 in inventory.

GM initially projected Volt sales of 30,000 in 2011 – later revised the target to 15,000 and finally to 10,000. Actual sales came in at 7,700. GM started 2012 with projected sales of 60,000 volts. YTD sales have totaled 1,700 Volts despite heavy advertising, including a Super Bowl commercial, and a $7,500 tax credit to the purchaser of each Volt. At this rate, selling off existing inventory will take closer to five month than five weeks.

It is difficult, to say the least, to determine how much money we taxpayers have spent on the Volt to date. Initial expenses included $450 million to GM for development expenses and $150 million given to LG Chem in Japan for development expenses. Since then $200 million have been provided to GM by the US Government to pay for the Volt assembly line and the battery assembly line. An addition $150 million has been provided to LG Chem and an additional $100 million by the state of Michigan to build a battery cell manufacturing facility in Holland Michigan. Michigan has committed to an addition $25 million in tax credits for a total of $275 million for a facility that will provide work for 300 workers at full capacity. LG Chem will continue to do the development and engineering in Korea.

On top of this, the taxpayers have paid $60 million in purchase incentives. President Obama is now proposing increasing the incentive to purchasers of the car from the existing $7,500 to $10,000.

President Obama is proposing to eliminate oil company incentives. I fully agree with that, but believe it should be an elimination of ALL incentives to the energy industry. I do not feel that I am entitled to ask you to help pay for my solar panels, windmills, car, etc. and I sure do not want to pay for yours!

GM has recently announced that the second generation Volt will be developed in cooperation with China and China will produce the Volts for the Chinese market and provide significant parts (probably the engine and associated hardware) to the United States production.

The two other EV producers in the US – Fisker and Tesla have received similar grants from this country to produce electric vehicles. Both companies received the same purchase incentive of $7,500 per vehicle despite the selling price being between $100,000 and $175,000. We have subsidized vehicles for Leonardo DeCaprio and Justin Beaver. That doesn’t seem right to me.

Guest
03-04-2012, 11:44 AM
You're forgetting some of the reasons surrounding this. Just to be a little more complete...

The Volt is in the $40,000 range - much cheaper than the Fiskers and Teslas. ...and the Model S Tesla is far under $100K.

The Volt has an image problem because of testing that was reported as showing batteries catching fire. What the press buried at the end of of articles, if they included the facts at all, was that the batteries caught fire THREE WEEKS after the accidents when the cars were stored in their wrecked condition without any coolant. Any idiot would know to disconnect systems after the accident. But they kept these cars in 'laboratory conditions' and that's when it happened.

The last knock on the Volt was that the Nissan Leaf EV was outselling it. Now, that's no longer true. The latest figures have the Volt outselling the Leaf.

The Volt has basically had to re-launch itself and is doing surprisingly well, given what it's been up against.

Guest
03-04-2012, 01:02 PM
The price would have to plummet for me to even take a look. The President said he was going to buy one in 5 years after he leaves office. He'll be able to afford one.

Guest
03-04-2012, 01:21 PM
Why doesn't he just buy one now and put his money where his mouth is?

Guest
03-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Why doesn't he just buy one now and put his money where his mouth is?

He could drive it around Camp David or better yet block off roads during his next 14 million dollar vacay to HI.

Guest
03-05-2012, 12:34 AM
You're forgetting some of the reasons surrounding this. Just to be a little more complete...

The Volt is in the $40,000 range - much cheaper than the Fiskers and Teslas. ...and the Model S Tesla is far under $100K.

The Volt has an image problem because of testing that was reported as showing batteries catching fire. What the press buried at the end of of articles, if they included the facts at all, was that the batteries caught fire THREE WEEKS after the accidents when the cars were stored in their wrecked condition without any coolant. Any idiot would know to disconnect systems after the accident. But they kept these cars in 'laboratory conditions' and that's when it happened.

The last knock on the Volt was that the Nissan Leaf EV was outselling it. Now, that's no longer true. The latest figures have the Volt outselling the Leaf.

The Volt has basically had to re-launch itself and is doing surprisingly well, given what it's been up against.

When I first questioned Volt sales you said it was caused by lack of inventory. Now that there's inventory running over, you attribute it to the press. Leaf sales lag today because of depleted inventory both here and in Japan. If you want a Leaf, you have to wait to get it. Leaf sales to date are over 50% higher than Volt sales and they still have approximately 10,000 people on a waiting list. Nobody has to wait for a Volt.

If you look objectively at the Volt vs the Leaf as EV's hits clear why the Volt is losing in the marketplace. The Volt's range as all electric is 40 miles according to independent testing. The Leaf's is 73 miles making it an excellent commuter car. The Volt costs approximately $44,500 comported to the Leaf's $35,000 when comparably equipped. Both receive the $7,500 incentive. The Volt has now been complicated by the addition of a gasoline engine. If you wish a gas engine your better choice is the Ford Fusion Hybrid ranked by US News as the best Mid-size sedan available in 2012. It's MSRP is less than $30,000.

Despite receiving approximately $1 billion in US taxpayer subsidies, the Chevy Volt fails miserably in head-to-head comparisons with the Leaf or the Fusion Hybrid. An honest slogan would be, "Get less by paying more."

The Volt is GM's answer to the Edsel. It's time to do what Ford did with the Edsel - kill it.

Guest
03-05-2012, 07:33 AM
BBQMan, I think you're being shortsighted. First, I was just trying to put some extra facts out there.

However, to address some of what you said..

Yes, TOTAL Leaf sales outnumber Volt sales - because the Leaf had a head-start.

Yes, Leaf vs. Volt *as an EV* will have the Leaf come out on top. However, Leaf vs. Volt as a *CAR* for real-world driving will have the Volt come out on top. I can commute to work in a Volt. It's iffy, at best, if I can do so in a Leaf and I'll be a lot more uncomfortable doing it as I'd worry about using the heat in the winter or a/c in the summer (I work 30 miles from home). When the Leaf is out of juice, I need a charging station and hours of time. Not so the Volt. If I'm *never* going to be more than 35 miles from home, the Leaf wins.

Your argument about the Volt being inferior to the Fusion Hybrid actually holds more water - MUCH more because now you're really a lot closer to comparing apples to apples. Truth be told, if I were in the market for a new car (just finished paying off my Camry so I'm enjoying 'no car payments' for a while), I would be looking more seriously at the forthcoming Ford C-Max entries - including a plug-in hybrid - that should be showing up at the end of this year.

Guest
03-05-2012, 10:47 AM
off topic but related!?
and how many jobs will be lost in the USA if the motors are made in China with the new GM/China cooperation....to reduce the cost?

btk