Socialized Medicine is Here!

[Guest]

Who would have ever thought Mr. Morse would champion the elimination of private enterprise in medical care?!!

Affectionately called "Marcus Welby" care, the Sun says "physicians will be paid generous salaries that are not tied to the volume of patients seen in a day or the number of tests and procedures ordered."

And WHO, you ask, will pay those salaries, and along with it, control those physicians, collect those reimbursements, and make big decisions about medical care?
The answer: the man behind the curtain.
Or as the sign says: 'The Villages Health Care Center'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually in favor of the Mayo teaming model, with electronic record keeping, (the kinds of things strongly promoted in Obama Care, incidentally). The elimination of repetitive and unnecessary testing and treatment is an essential ingredient in eventually getting control of astronomical health care costs. I am willing to give up my 'right' to have every test known to man in exchange for focused, personal care. I have no problem with Mr. Morse reinventing Marcus Welby.

But if, (excuse me, when), Mr. Morse makes it happen, there are going to be some angry folks when they find out they can't personally elect to have comprehensive testing to "rule out every possibility" of anything bad happening, unless they leave town and see a PRIVATE physician. The purist conservatives will holler about that and about how doctors will no longer be motivated to practice under socialism.

Who would have ever thought the target of conservative criticism for helping to destroy the "finest health care system in the world" would be our own Mr. Morse!

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure this is a private business enacting a model to entice you to use their services. I don't think you're going to be forced to go there.

You still can go to any other doctor's office and just ignore this enterprise. That is all this is, an enterprise.

I think in this business model, you're going to have the time to sit and discuss with your doctor the treatment options, if what is advertised is true.

Socialized Medicine, as it has come to be known, is a system where you don't have a choice by to go to doctor's the State approves and to receive treatment the State allows. This is something much different. This is not ObamaCare; now that's socialized medicine.

Unless I'm missing something?

[Guest]

Who would have ever thought Mr. Morse would champion the elimination of private enterprise in medical care?!!

Affectionately called "Marcus Welby" care, the Sun says "physicians will be paid generous salaries that are not tied to the volume of patients seen in a day or the number of tests and procedures ordered."

And WHO, you ask, will pay those salaries, and along with it, control those physicians, collect those reimbursements, and make big decisions about medical care?
The answer: the man behind the curtain.
Or as the sign says: 'The Villages Health Care Center'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually in favor of the Mayo teaming model, with electronic record keeping, (the kinds of things strongly promoted in Obama Care, incidentally). The elimination of repetitive and unnecessary testing and treatment is an essential ingredient in eventually getting control of astronomical health care costs. I am willing to give up my 'right' to have every test known to man in exchange for focused, personal care. I have no problem with Mr. Morse reinventing Marcus Welby.

But if, (excuse me, when), Mr. Morse makes it happen, there are going to be some angry folks when they find out they can't personally elect to have comprehensive testing to "rule out every possibility" of anything bad happening, unless they leave town and see a PRIVATE physician. The purist conservatives will holler about that and about how doctors will no longer be motivated to practice under socialism.

Who would have ever thought the target of conservative criticism for helping to destroy the "finest health care system in the world" would be our own Mr. Morse!

YEA, whats next, having to sit beside some poor person right in our own medical lobby. ECH....

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure this is a private business enacting a model to entice you to use their services. I don't think you're going to be forced to go there.

You still can go to any other doctor's office and just ignore this enterprise. That is all this is, an enterprise.

I think in this business model, you're going to have the time to sit and discuss with your doctor the treatment options, if what is advertised is true.

Socialized Medicine, as it has come to be known, is a system where you don't have a choice by to go to doctor's the State approves and to receive treatment the State allows. This is something much different. This is not ObamaCare; now that's socialized medicine.

Unless I'm missing something?

Yes, I believe you are missing something.

The business model here includes the key concepts that the doctors are employees. They, and their patients will no longer have exclusive control over decisions about testing and maybe even treatment. Those decisions will be guided "from above". Sure people can go elsewhere, but that doesn't change the model in effect in a place to which people are moving because medical care with accessibility and choice is so important to them.

And, as a 'centrist' on this, I'll say it again: This is not the wrong road to travel to improve health care. It's just so ironic that Mr. Morse is driving the bus.

[Guest]

This issue makes an interesting point. While I agree with Richie that there clearly is a difference when you are forced versus choose something, our government has become so powerful that with various regulations controlling "private providers" that no matter what soon there will be no choices to make. Like our president said, "under our health care program you can keep your current insurance if you like it."
What he didnt say is our program will force your current insurance out of existence and sorry but you will no longer have any choice.
Sweet, NOT.
I guess if you do not like the new health care in TV, you can move.. but where and at what cost?
JJ

[Guest]

Yes, I believe you are missing something.

The business model here includes the key concepts that the doctors are employees. They, and their patients will no longer have exclusive control over decisions about testing and maybe even treatment. Those decisions will be guided "from above". Sure people can go elsewhere, but that doesn't change the model in effect in a place to which people are moving because medical care with accessibility and choice is so important to them.

And, as a 'centrist' on this, I'll say it again: This is not the wrong road to travel to improve health care. It's just so ironic that Mr. Morse is driving the bus.

I understood it to mean that testing would be done elsewhere and that overhead not carried by the precise. It doesn't mean that tests would not be prescribed.

[Guest]

Yes, I believe you are missing something.

The business model here includes the key concepts that the doctors are employees. They, and their patients will no longer have exclusive control over decisions about testing and maybe even treatment. Those decisions will be guided "from above". Sure people can go elsewhere, but that doesn't change the model in effect in a place to which people are moving because medical care with accessibility and choice is so important to them.

And, as a 'centrist' on this, I'll say it again: This is not the wrong road to travel to improve health care. It's just so ironic that Mr. Morse is driving the bus.

This issue makes an interesting point. While I agree with Richie that there clearly is a difference when you are forced versus choose something, our government has become so powerful that with various regulations controlling "private providers" that no matter what soon there will be no choices to make. Like our president said, "under our health care program you can keep your current insurance if you like it."
What he didnt say is our program will force your current insurance out of existence and sorry but you will no longer have any choice.
Sweet, NOT.
I guess if you do not like the new health care in TV, you can move.. but where and at what cost?
JJ

Move??; what are you talking about. There are plenty of doctors in The Villages. You don't have to go to this new enterprise. If it doesn't appeal to you, you have plenty of options.

Ijusluvit; I think you have a huge misunderstanding of this new business. There is no committee deciding your medical fate. The point of paying the doctor's well is so they don't have to run a "mill" of multiple patients and testing in order to make a living. The incentive to do pointless testing and to run patients in and out would be decreased. You would have time to talk to your doctor about your concerns, and make a decision on what testing should be done. At least, that's the way they present it.

I believe you're getting a little hysterical here.

[Guest]

I tend to go along with RichieLion. This may turn out to be a shining example of free-market capitalism. I noticed that (in the recent newspaper articles) there was no mention of who pays the "generous salaries".

I believe this is going to be something along the lines of a health club for the wealthy. Anyone who "joins" or signs up to be a member, will pay a yearly fee of thousands of dollars for the privilege. This will be the rich man's health care. A member will be able to get an appointment without waiting and will get all the attention he/she needs or wants.

And this is nothing new. I've read about this many many years ago. Some people will be willing to pay 5 or 10 thousand dollars per year to have this premium service. That's where the money will come from to pay the generous salaries to doctors. If that's not free-market capatalism, I don't know what is.

Now you know why the health survey asked about your yearly incomes. They had to be sure there would be enough people with large incomes to pay for this kind of care.

However, if what I said is true, is this going to be the plan that makes The Villages Americas healthiest hometown?
This will cover only a small percentage of wealthier Villagers.

[Guest]

This plan appears to be the opposite of Obama Care, so yes, only the rich will benefit from this system; thereby, giving the conservatives of the Villages just what they feel they deserve. Special care for there money while the less fortunate die standing in line elsewhere. Just my observation and thank God I have great insurance and enough money to sign up for it. I feel guilty about leaving poor children without health care, but I did work for my money.

[Guest]

I tend to go along with RichieLion. This may turn out to be a shining example of free-market capitalism. I noticed that (in the recent newspaper articles) there was no mention of who pays the "generous salaries".

I believe this is going to be something along the lines of a health club for the wealthy. Anyone who "joins" or signs up to be a member, will pay a yearly fee of thousands of dollars for the privilege. This will be the rich man's health care. A member will be able to get an appointment without waiting and will get all the attention he/she needs or wants.

Really?, a club?.......Is this just an assumption or guess, or did you read this?

This doesn't sound right to me.

[Guest]

Ya can't find this unusual, the US has done it this way for Education and Health care for decades, so why not in The Villages. Money has always been the deciding factor in medical treatment quality and the quality of education for our children. The haves get the best doctors and hospital care and go to the best universities and the have not fight over the scrapes left behind that fall into government programs for education and medical care that will take Medicare/Medicaid for payment.

[Guest]

Move??; what are you talking about. There are plenty of doctors in The Villages. You don't have to go to this new enterprise. If it doesn't appeal to you, you have plenty of options.

Ijusluvit; I think you have a huge misunderstanding of this new business. There is no committee deciding your medical fate. The point of paying the doctor's well is so they don't have to run a "mill" of multiple patients and testing in order to make a living. The incentive to do pointless testing and to run patients in and out would be decreased. You would have time to talk to your doctor about your concerns, and make a decision on what testing should be done. At least, that's the way they present it.

I believe you're getting a little hysterical here.

Why would you suggest I'm a "little hysterical"?

Why not refrain from commenting, or just agree it's rather ironic that a noted conservative is orchestrating what is best called a "liberal" approach to medical care.

How about if I suggest you are a stubborn, intransigent conservative who cannot admit when our society might profit from a blend of private enterprise and public management?

[Guest]

Why would you suggest I'm a "little hysterical"?

Why not refrain from commenting, or just agree it's rather ironic that a noted conservative is orchestrating what is best called a "liberal" approach to medical care.

How about if I suggest you are a stubborn, intransigent conservative who cannot admit when our society might profit from a blend of private enterprise and public management?

I said hysterical because it seems you're going overboard on this enterprise, which is all it is. It's capitalism pure and simple.

I think you're way off the wall, and this is no where near anything like socialized medicine.

I'm just saying you're completely wrong about this.

You can call me names if you've run out of intelligent comment, but it doesn't help you.

[Guest]

Who would have ever thought Mr. Morse would champion the elimination of private enterprise in medical care?!!

Affectionately called "Marcus Welby" care, the Sun says "physicians will be paid generous salaries that are not tied to the volume of patients seen in a day or the number of tests and procedures ordered."

And WHO, you ask, will pay those salaries, and along with it, control those physicians, collect those reimbursements, and make big decisions about medical care?
The answer: the man behind the curtain.
Or as the sign says: 'The Villages Health Care Center'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually in favor of the Mayo teaming model, with electronic record keeping, (the kinds of things strongly promoted in Obama Care, incidentally). The elimination of repetitive and unnecessary testing and treatment is an essential ingredient in eventually getting control of astronomical health care costs. I am willing to give up my 'right' to have every test known to man in exchange for focused, personal care. I have no problem with Mr. Morse reinventing Marcus Welby.

But if, (excuse me, when), Mr. Morse makes it happen, there are going to be some angry folks when they find out they can't personally elect to have comprehensive testing to "rule out every possibility" of anything bad happening, unless they leave town and see a PRIVATE physician. The purist conservatives will holler about that and about how doctors will no longer be motivated to practice under socialism.

Who would have ever thought the target of conservative criticism for helping to destroy the "finest health care system in the world" would be our own Mr. Morse!Let me see if I have this right. Some of the most successful and revered medical practices in the country--the Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic, among others--provide care under this financial model. So now you're saying that "purist conservatives" will object and that this type of practice is socialized medicine?

Really? If that's the case, I'm in favor of that type of socialized medicine. And hooray for Gary Morse!

[Guest]

There are many doctors throughout the U.S.--I'm familiar with a group in north suburban Chicago--that are beginning to practice medicine using the following model...

Each doctor agrees to provide unlimited treatment to a maximum of 150 patients for an annual fee of $10,000, payable in advance. The doctor would no longer file for any insurance claims, nor would they maintain the record-keeping and billing systems needed to obtain payment for either Medicare or any private insurance company. However, each patient would be free to file and personally administer such claims using information provided to him by the doctor.

Using this model, each doctor in the practice would have an annual gross income of $1.5 million. From that amount, they would pay for all necessary office space, reception, nursing, insurance, and all office operating expenses. The model would suggest that each physician would have a pre-tax "salary" of about $1 million per year.

By limiting their patient load to only 150 patients, they would have sufficient time to schedule hour-long appointments with each patient on almost a monthly basis. Patients could see their doctor as often as they wished with a guarantee that they could schedule an appointment on very short notice and not endure any more than a few minutes wait in the doctor's waiting room. The doctors could really get to know each of their patients on a personal and intensive basis, providing only the necessary testing and care based on that intimate knowledge of each patient.
This is a model that could be very effective in actually "bending the cost curve" while at the same time vastly improving medical care. If I understand what Gary Morse is proposing, the new Villages system is pretty close to this model.

Socialized medicine? Absolutely not! A system that will likely result in much improved medical care and results? Probably.

So the arithmetic works, don't you think?

[Guest]

I'd be very curious as to how it works when it's not so streamlined - how they handle the exceptions to the rule.

For example, if I'm one of the 150 patients of a particular doctor, what if I don't like what he says concerning something that ails me? (Like my wife's doctor who has certain blind spots when it comes to problems that are exclusively female - not everything mind you, just a few things where he really seems out of touch). How does getting a 2nd opinion work?

[Guest]

Why would you suggest I'm a "little hysterical"?

Why not refrain from commenting, or just agree it's rather ironic that a noted conservative is orchestrating what is best called a "liberal" approach to medical care.

How about if I suggest you are a stubborn, intransigent conservative who cannot admit when our society might profit from a blend of private enterprise and public management?

I have been on the receiving end of stubborn, intransigent conservative tripe for years. It is a method of driving off anyone and everyone with even the most simple alternative to any issue. But keep in mind, there are some on this forum that supported Bachman, then Perry, then Santorum and even called me names when I continued to throw my support toward Romney. Well, look at who turned out to be the three stooges of the GOP candidates.

[Guest]

There are many doctors throughout the U.S.--I'm familiar with a group in north suburban Chicago--that are beginning to practice medicine using the following model...

Each doctor agrees to provide unlimited treatment to a maximum of 150 patients for an annual fee of $10,000, payable in advance. The doctor would no longer file for any insurance claims, nor would they maintain the record-keeping and billing systems needed to obtain payment for either Medicare or any private insurance company. However, each patient would be free to file and personally administer such claims using information provided to him by the doctor.

Using this model, each doctor in the practice would have an annual gross income of $1.5 million. From that amount, they would pay for all necessary office space, reception, nursing, insurance, and all office operating expenses. The model would suggest that each physician would have a pre-tax "salary" of about $1 million per year.

By limiting their patient load to only 150 patients, they would have sufficient time to schedule hour-long appointments with each patient on almost a monthly basis. Patients could see their doctor as often as they wished with a guarantee that they could schedule an appointment on very short notice and not endure any more than a few minutes wait in the doctor's waiting room. The doctors could really get to know each of their patients on a personal and intensive basis, providing only the necessary testing and care based on that intimate knowledge of each patient.
This is a model that could be very effective in actually "bending the cost curve" while at the same time vastly improving medical care. If I understand what Gary Morse is proposing, the new Villages system is pretty close to this model.

Socialized medicine? Absolutely not! A system that will likely result in much improved medical care and results? Probably.

So the arithmetic works, don't you think?

I've yet to to see any reference to how the costs for medical treatment would actually be paid in the Villages model. Will participants be members of the 10k Club? That of course is the polar opposite of socialized medicine, and I don't think this is What Mr. Morse has in mind. More likely he intends to work within the 'system', charging standard patient rates and submitting them for for insurance or medicare reimbursement for example. He will then be in a position to control costs and care to the extent he wishes to do so. Therefore, his model could well become a significant move away from the independent, private doctor/patient enterprise. I don't have a problem with this because I think it's about time models like this were put in place.

And I agree, hooray for Mr. Morse!

[Guest]

I have been on the receiving end of stubborn, intransigent conservative tripe for years. It is a method of driving off anyone and everyone with even the most simple alternative to any issue. But keep in mind, there are some on this forum that supported Bachman, then Perry, then Santorum and even called me names when I continued to throw my support toward Romney. Well, look at who turned out to be the three stooges of the GOP candidates.

You complain about me and you do likewise. You never learn. A whole post just to criticize me and not even comment about the issue at hand.....typical.

[Guest]

Really?, a club?.......Is this just an assumption or guess, or did you read this?

This doesn't sound right to me.

No, not really a club but I called it a club for lack of a better word. The generous incomes that were talked about are not just going to materialize out of thin air. So I assume they will be paid by those who sign up. You sign up, pay your yearly fee, and they agree to take care of your health care needs. In that case it would be a Health Maintenance Organization (HMO).

If the doctors only take care of relatively few people, with no waiting, it can't be a walk-in-clinic that's open to the public. In other words, it can't be inclusive, it has to be exclusive. Supply and demand: A lot of people will want to be a part of this but there will only be relatively few opinings. Therefore, when the supply is limited, the fee will be high.

No, I didn't read about this.