A Positive Concept For The New Medical Centers

[Villages PL]

Since it is hoped that the new medical centers will represent the very best in medical care, it may offer a unique opportunity to reward those who have demonstrated personal responsibility in taking care of their own health. This is what's needed to make it a true partnership between medical care and (personal) self-care.

Like anything else in life, opportunities are often limited. To get into college, you must apply and meet requirements. To get a job, you must apply. There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.

Do you like this concept? If so, what should the requirements be?

:wave:

[momesu]

Since it is hoped that the new medical centers will represent the very best in medical care, it will offer a unique opportunity to reward those who have demonstrated personal responsibility in taking care of their own health. This is what's needed to make it a true partnership between medical care and individual care.

Like anything else in life, opportunities are often limited. To get into college, you must apply and meet requirements. To get a job, you must apply. There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.

Do you like this concept? If so, what should the requirements be?

:wave:

Ah personal responsibility.....not a popular concept in today's culture. Everything seems to always be someone else fault. Someone else put the temptation in my way....temptation to eat too much. drink too much and exercise too little. It takes too much money or time to cook and eat well. Not to speak of the personal rights and that no one should be allowed to tell me how I should live my life or what things I should do to keep myself safe and healthy. Not sure how to make one take responsibility for there choices in life. What I might consider prudent someone else would consider an intrusion on their personal rights and visa versa.

Suzanne

[TommyT]

There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.


WHAT A STATEMENT ..... SHEEEEEEEEEESH !!!!!!!! :22yikes:

[mulligan]

You'd only have access to the facility if you don't need it???

[Mudder]

How are you going to measure "personal responsilbility"! It can be measured in many different ways and what about genetics? I get what you 're saying and I sorta like the idea, but just don't see it happening, to many variables.

[CarGuys]

Like anything else in life, opportunities are often limited. To get into college, you must apply and meet requirements. To get a job, you must apply. There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.

Do you like this concept? If so, what should the requirements be?

:wave:

Nooooooooooooooooooooo? Are you from the New Health Care take a pain pill then Die Plan? I work out an try to not over indulge but that sounds harsh to me. And I'm not from the Kissie Love How can I make your Day Have a Cookie Clan either.

[Pturner]

Since it is hoped that the new medical centers will represent the very best in medical care, it will offer a unique opportunity to reward those who have demonstrated personal responsibility in taking care of their own health. This is what's needed to make it a true partnership between medical care and individual care.

Like anything else in life, opportunities are often limited. To get into college, you must apply and meet requirements. To get a job, you must apply. There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.

Do you like this concept? If so, what should the requirements be?

:wave:

Hmmm, let's see. How about:


Don't drink or smoke.
Exercise at least 60 minutes every day. Wait, is that responsible enough? Wouldn't it be a bit irresponsible not to include cardio for heart, muscle building to reduce BMI and stretching for flexibility?
Must weigh no more or less than "normal range" for your age and sex.
Must have a "good" or better BMI regardless of weight
Must not allow your skin to be exposed to the sun for more than, what, 30 minutes a day? An hour would be irresponsible, right?
Must get at least 90 percent of the Daily Recommended Allowance of all nutrients that have recommended daily allowances. It might be irresponsible to not get all our nutrients
Must not eat sugar (except that contained in whole fruit)
White bread? Fergit about it. You're out!

Is this what you have in mind? Have I left anything out?

[Hancle704]

I don't think it's about personal responsibility. Rather I think it will be about personal financial ability to pay up front in order to buy into the program. How else would these Marcus Welby-like doctors be able to receive the generous salaries mentioned in the Daily Sun?

[skyc6]

Exactly! And it won't be us who decides who gets in or not, so really, this is probably a moot post! :)

[Ooper]

Yep! :agree:

[Hancle704]

Since I have not seen it mentioned in the newspaper or, in TOTV threads, I am wondering if this concept is employed elsewhere, if a patient who establishes a relationship with one of these Marcus Welby-like physicians, is hospitalized, does the same doctor still see the patient in hospital, re-hab facility, nursing home? Or is patient care turned over to hospitalist in addition to specialist needed for treatment?

[Villages PL]

I don't think it's about personal responsibility.

That's right, it's not. But I can dream, can't I?

Rather I think it will be about personal financial ability to pay up front in order to buy into the program. How else would these Marcus Welby-like doctors be able to receive the generous salaries mentioned in the Daily Sun?

I heard that Medicare Advantage Plans (HMO's) receive something like $700. per month to take care of each person. That's $8,400 per year. It may be more than that today. If the Villages plan is not an HMO, I would think they need to make up that money in some other way. So perhaps it may be as you suggest. Only time will tell.

Note: I was told that the new centers would serve less patients per hour but would make up for it, financially, by providing less duplication (i.e., less testing and other proceedures). That makes sense for an HMO. If you get X amount of Medicare money per month (per person), the less testing you do, the more money you get to keep. Otherwise, if the centers are not HMOs, I don't see how they can make any money by providing less testing.

[Villages PL]

How are you going to measure "personal responsilbility"! It can be measured in many different ways and what about genetics? I get what you 're saying and I sorta like the idea, but just don't see it happening, to many variables.

I agree that it could be measured in many different ways. But I would keep it simple. Take a measure of body fat percentage: The NIH says a healthy body fat percentage for men is 13 to 17 percent. But the average male has a body fat percentage of 17 to 19 percent.

The ideal for women is 20 to 21%. But the actual average, for U.S. women, is22 to 25%.

There are special scales that one can step up on to get a reading of their body fat percentage. Make the upper limit 17% for men and 21% for women. It's quick and easy and will be a great service because a lot of people don't know what their percentage is. If they don't pass the test, they could always go back and try again at 3 to 6 month intervals.

Athletes often come in at a lower percentage. Mine, the last time I checked, was 11%. That's not dangerous for a man. Dangerous would be between 3 and 6%.

[Mudder]

OK, that would be a starting place. There are many people who would be shocked at their percentage of body fat. That is a pretty good indication of state of health.

[Pturner]

I agree that it could be measured in many different ways. But I would keep it simple. Take a measure of body fat percentage: The NIH says a healthy body fat percentage for men is 13 to 17 percent. But the average male has a body fat percentage of 17 to 19 percent.

The ideal for women is 20 to 21%. But the actual average, for U.S. women, is22 to 25%.

There are special scales that one can step up on to get a reading of their body fat percentage. Make the upper limit 17% for men and 21% for women. It's quick and easy and will be a great service because a lot of people don't know what their percentage is. If they don't pass the test, they could always go back and try again at 3 to 6 month intervals.

Athletes often come in at a lower percentage. Mine, the last time I checked, was 11%. That's not dangerous for a man. Dangerous would be between 3 and 6%.

These scales don't actually measure body fat. They run an electrical current through the body, calculate the electrical impedance (since electricity conducts better through water and tissue than fat), then, plugging the person's height and weight into a formula, make a calculation/ average "guestimate" of body fat.

I have read conflicting accounts of their accuracy.

[Villages PL]

These scales don't actually measure body fat. They run an electrical current through the body, calculate the electrical impedance (since electricity conducts better through water and tissue than fat), then, plugging the person's height and weight into a formula, make a calculation/ average "guestimate" of body fat.

I have read conflicting accounts of their accuracy.

How about if we use BMI in combination with the "electrical impedance" device?" If a person's body fat percentage is too high and has a BMI over 25 they will not qualify. If a third test is needed, they could measure the person's waist and wrist. Wrist size in inches X 4.55 equals ideal waist size.

[Carla B]

How about if we use BMI in combination with the "electrical impedance" device?" If a person's body fat percentage is too high and has a BMI over 25 they will not qualify. If a third test is needed, they could measure the person's waist and wrist. Wrist size in inches X 4.55 equals ideal waist size.

Holy Cow! Where can I buy a corset?

[TF Hutch]

So.... Health services for those least likely to need it?
Perhaps a "pay by the pound for services" business model would be more appropriate.

[momesu]

How about if we use BMI in combination with the "electrical impedance" device?" If a person's body fat percentage is too high and has a BMI over 25 they will not qualify. If a third test is needed, they could measure the person's waist and wrist. Wrist size in inches X 4.55 equals ideal waist size.

I hope this is not the case becasue if it is I should have a 27inch waist. :22yikes: That is never going to happen again. I had it once when I was maybe 18 and the doctor was on me about being severely underweight for my 5'11" height.......

[Villages PL]

I hope this is not the case becasue if it is I should have a 27inch waist. :22yikes: That is never going to happen again. I had it once when I was maybe 18 and the doctor was on me about being severely underweight for my 5'11" height.......

With your height, I assume you would do better with the BMI?

[Villages PL]

You'd only have access to the facility if you don't need it???

I take that as a vote of confidence; you believe that normal weight people don't need very much medical care. All the more reason to put some sort of incentive in place to incourage people to maintain a healthy weight.

[Villages PL]

Holy Cow! Where can I buy a corset?

Carla B, you are a funny lady! :)

[momesu]

With your height, I assume you would do better with the BMI?

That would make me much happier as my BMI is 23. :a040:
And other than RA I consider myself very healthy. Can't be too bad since I made it through 24 hours straight at Disney on Feb 29 without collapsing. Though doing that may say something about my mental state according to some.......
Suzanne

[looneycat]

Since it is hoped that the new medical centers will represent the very best in medical care, it may offer a unique opportunity to reward those who have demonstrated personal responsibility in taking care of their own health. This is what's needed to make it a true partnership between medical care and (personal) self-care.

Like anything else in life, opportunities are often limited. To get into college, you must apply and meet requirements. To get a job, you must apply. There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.

Do you like this concept? If so, what should the requirements be?

:wave:

If so, what should the requirements be?...um, let me see....I'd say needing medical care..you do not put restrictions on care..period

[Villages PL]

That would make me much happier as my BMI is 23. :a040:
And other than RA I consider myself very healthy. Can't be too bad since I made it through 24 hours straight at Disney on Feb 29 without collapsing. Though doing that may say something about my mental state according to some.......
Suzanne

I realized later that I had left out something very important. When you do the calculation for wrist measurement, the resulting number is your "ideal" waist measurement. But just as no one is expected to be at their ideal BMI or body-fat-percentage, we shouldn't expect people to be at their ideal waist measurement. Most likely you'd be able to add 5 or 6 inches and still pass the test.

[skyc6]

I am fairly new to The Villages, so after reading the articles in the paper, I decided to call the 3 DR.s who are said to be headed to the first such office near Colony to check on insurance they will accept. I have an insurance and also a supplement insurance.
I was quickly told that this office will do no filing of supplemental insurance--medicare or not. I asked if they would wait for payment until I had filed with my supplement, and was also told no.
I was told all 3 Dr.s will only file primary insurance and then the patient will pay the remainder and file their supplemental insurance themselves and reimburse themselves later. I have not found this to be the case at other dr.s offices so far.

[Villages PL]

I find your suggestion to be disgusting elitist crap. Your suggestion is the worst form of bigotry I've ever heard, health elitism....hate is disgusting in any form, its a shame to see someone who hates others because they are not as 'responsible' as they are!

All of that emotional name calling and you don't even know me. Just look at the the words and the phrase you have used: 1) bigotry 2) elitism 3) hates others.

Wow, you got that from my post? And all because I would like to see something in place to encourage personal responsibility?

:)

[Mudder]

villagerPL, just curious, do you do Yoga? You strike me as someone who would be a participant. I do Yoga several times a week and gain much from it.

[looneycat]

All of that emotional name calling and you don't even know me. Just look at the the words and the phrase you have used: 1) bigotry 2) elitism 3) hates others.

Wow, you got that from my post? And all because I would like to see something in place to encourage personal responsibility?

:)

let's see, bigotry - if you are not living a healthy life style you need not apply
elitism - see 1 and only those who have earned this Reward
hates others - see 1 and 2 and you others who don't deserve this reward too bad!

look at what you said - not enough room for everybody - only us elite who practice a 'healthy' life style deserve it as a reward

do you know yourself? I sincerely apologize if you did not mean to come off sounding like a 'health elitist' but you did.

I will give you an example...there's limited parking at the hospital so don't bother to come if you're not driving a caddy or better
it's kind of the same statement so I'm pretty sure it's not really what you meant, right?

[RichieLion]

let's see, bigotry - if you are not living a healthy life style you need not apply
elitism - see 1 and only those who have earned this Reward
hates others - see 1 and 2 and you others who don't deserve this reward too bad!

look at what you said - not enough room for everybody - only us elite who practice a 'healthy' life style deserve it as a reward

do you know yourself? I sincerely apologize if you did not mean to come off sounding like a 'health elitist' but you did.

I will give you an example...there's limited parking at the hospital so don't bother to come if you're not driving a caddy or better
it's kind of the same statement so I'm pretty sure it's not really what you meant, right?

This is one of those times I've got to agree with you, looneycat.

The self righteous elitist always make me a bit ill.

Can I get insurance for that?

[graciegirl]

Although Villages Pl and I sometimes disagree on how he looks at medicine and health, I don't see any reason for name calling.

Villages Pl seems to me to be very, very concerned about the issues of health for all and particularly seniors.

The reason for the forum is to say how we think and feel and how we look at things. And to disagree if we see it another way.

I have not been successful in changing Villages Pl mind on how he looks at things, but no matter, I sense him to be a good person.

I think there has been way too much meanness lately.

Those who accuse others of bigotry frequently find the term thrown back on themselves.


big·ot·ry

   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] Show IPA
noun, plural -ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creed), belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot).







Be calm and type.

[Challenger]

Since it is hoped that the new medical centers will represent the very best in medical care, it may offer a unique opportunity to reward those who have demonstrated personal responsibility in taking care of their own health. This is what's needed to make it a true partnership between medical care and (personal) self-care.

Like anything else in life, opportunities are often limited. To get into college, you must apply and meet requirements. To get a job, you must apply. There won't be room for everyone in the new medical centers, so why not use it as a unique opportunity to REWARD those who can demonstrate a certain level of personal responsibility in their own healthcare.

Do you like this concept? If so, what should the requirements be?

:wave:
Where does the determination of Personal Responsibility begin? How do we deal with the following issues in rationing health care?
use of alcohol, tobacco, legal and illegal drugs, tanning beds . failure to use sun block, stress injuries from running etc, trauma from activies like skydiving , and other sports injuries . Who determines what is the Personal Responsibility?
If one is injured while speeding , does he deserve care?

[Russ_Boston]

It is not the short term acute care costs that cripple our system. It is the long term chronic care. I'm not saying that anyone doesn't deserve care, they do. But if there are initiatives for those that go many years only seeing their primary care for check ups then I'm all for that. As a nurse for the past 3 years I see the same people coming back all the time. For many it was none of their own doing but still the costs are astronomical. If some are lucky enough to remain healthy (even if it's just dumb luck or great genes) then I have no issue with their costs being less.

[TOTV Team]

A prior post has been removed. Comments are to be directed at the topic and not a user please.

[Mudder]

Thank you Administrator, no one deserves that type of verbal bullying or abuse.

[Pturner]

How about if we use BMI in combination with the "electrical impedance" device?" If a person's body fat percentage is too high and has a BMI over 25 they will not qualify. If a third test is needed, they could measure the person's waist and wrist. Wrist size in inches X 4.55 equals ideal waist size.

Um... a waist is a terrible thing to mind. :D

[graciegirl]

Um... a waist is a terrible thing to mind. :D

You ain't right.

Please don't change.:wave:

[graciegirl]

Um... a waist is a terrible thing to mind. :D

:1rotfl::clap2:

[memason]

Um... a waist is a terrible thing to mind. :D

Damn....that's funny!

[looneycat]

Although Villages Pl and I sometimes disagree on how he looks at medicine and health, I don't see any reason for name calling.

Villages Pl seems to me to be very, very concerned about the issues of health for all and particularly seniors.

The reason for the forum is to say how we think and feel and how we look at things. And to disagree if we see it another way.

I have not been successful in changing Villages Pl mind on how he looks at things, but no matter, I sense him to be a good person.

I think there has been way too much meanness lately.

Those who accuse others of bigotry frequently find the term thrown back on themselves.


big·ot·ry

   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] Show IPA
noun, plural -ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creed), belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

2. the actions, beliefs, prejudices, etc., of a bigot (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot).







Be calm and type.

if the topic was one that would help seniors with health care why was its' basic 'concept' how to bar certain people from receiving medical care? As a 'concept' to improve medical care it would suggest ways to bar people from a medical practice?. mull that over a bit...oh and please excuse me for answering an off topic post!
:confused:

[graciegirl]

if the topic was one that would help seniors with health care why was its' basic 'concept' how to bar certain people from receiving medical care? As a 'concept' to improve medical care it would suggest ways to bar people from a medical practice. mull that over a bit...oh and please excuse me for answering an off topic post!
:confused:

Looney. A forum is a place to talk about things. To type about things.

We can choose venting or presenting arguments. We may try to see where someone is coming from and what point they are trying to make and to think of a way to phrase the way we think so as to change minds.

We can state how we look at things. We can differ, we can agree and we can disagree. We may try to keep an open mind. We should try not to be impatient. May be a good idea to try to use words in such a way as to teach, not anger. Probably do better to say what we think without disrespecting another's views by name calling.

Some of us can do all that better than others.

PTurner and Bill of Bill-n-Brillo always manage to say it nice, say it smart, say it funny, say it respectfully. I yearn to be just like them.
.
That is just what I think. I like and listen to plenty of folks who don't agree with that or anything I think.

[Villages PL]

villagerPL, just curious, do you do Yoga? You strike me as someone who would be a participant. I do Yoga several times a week and gain much from it.

I don't do Yoga. I never got interested in it but I suppose it can be a good thing. I like to walk and I do some weight lifting. I have a gym membership. What's the benifit from doing Yoga? Is it to be relaxed and more physically fit?

[Villages PL]

Where does the determination of Personal Responsibility begin? How do we deal with the following issues in rationing health care?

I'm not for rationing health care. My suggestion was for the Villages Health Centers only. Being that the USF/Villages health alliance is an experimental project, I thought it would be interesting and informative to add the concept of a certain level responsibility on the part of patients. The doctors will be putting in their best effort, hopefully. So, I wonder what extra effort we will be willing to bring to the table. Should we expect the doctors to do it all?

Will we be saying the following to these doctors? "Here I am doc, I'm overweight because I eat too much of the wrong foods. As a result, I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol etc.. Now fix me. Give me some medications to cover up my symptoms." Is that a good doctor/patient relationship where the doctor is expected to do it all?

I chose weight because it's something that can be easily tested. The doctors themselves could decide on something else.

[looneycat]

I'm not for rationing health care. My suggestion was for the Villages Health Centers only. Being that the USF/Villages health alliance is an experimental project, I thought it would be interesting and informative to add the concept of a certain level responsibility on the part of patients. The doctors will be putting in their best effort, hopefully. So, I wonder what extra effort we will be willing to bring to the table. Should we expect the doctors to do it all?

Will we be saying the following to these doctors? "Here I am doc, I'm overweight because I eat too much of the wrong foods. As a result, I have high blood pressure and high cholesterol etc.. Now fix me. Give me some medication to cover up my symptoms." Is that a good doctor/patient relationship where the doctor is expected to do it all?

I chose weight because it's something that can be easily tested. The doctors themselves could decide on something else.

so after I am 'accepted' by marcus welby and co., do I have to step on the ole BMI scale before entering so that when I slip over the limit it goes 'BEEP' and locks me out because I have been irresponsible? it is so easy to test. oh and would it beep if I fell to 10% because now I'm possibly at risk of as many problems as if I were over?

[looneycat]

Looney. A forum is a place to talk about things. To type about things.

We can choose venting or presenting arguments. We may try to see where someone is coming from and what point they are trying to make and to think of a way to phrase the way we think so as to change minds.

We can state how we look at things. We can differ, we can agree and we can disagree. We may try to keep an open mind. We should try not to be impatient. May be a good idea to try to use words in such a way as to teach, not anger. Probably do better to say what we think without disrespecting another's views by name calling.

Some of us can do all that better than others.

PTurner and Bill of Bill-n-Brillo always manage to say it nice, say it smart, say it funny, say it respectfully. I yearn to be just like them.
.
That is just what I think. I like and listen to plenty of folks who don't agree with that or anything I think.

again , an off topic post, but I mean that in the nicest way! :bowdown:

[graciegirl]

again , an off topic post, but I mean that in the nicest way! :bowdown:

Boy Howdy. ;)

[Villages PL]

The self righteous elitist always make me a bit ill.

Be careful, RichieLion, this is an elitist town. Villagers are generally the best at everything. We are the friendliest, healthiest(?), best educated and wealthiest hometown. We even have a Mensa club and an elite political board.

[looneycat]

Be careful RichieLion, this is an elitist town. Villagers are generally the best at everything. We are the friendliest, healthiest(?), best educated and wealthiest hometown. We even have a Mensa club and an elite political board.

that's kind of a unexpected hoot! I quit MENSA when I was 22 because I found them to be elitist snobs in the NY area!