Religious Liberty and Civil Society

[Guest]

...."Notre Dame University, which employs more than 5,000 people, is going to be given the choice of either expressly violating its religious convictions or paying a $10 million fine to the federal government. It’s bad enough that any employer with a moral objection has to spend his money this way, but it is especially egregious to compel religious institutions to do so."
"....,the fact of the administration’s willingness to do this sheds light on its hostility to (or at the very least its contempt for) religious liberty. But it’s not quite that simple. This incident (and especially the nature of the exemption that the administration was willing to grant, which is essentially an exemption for actual houses of worship but not for other religiously-affiliated institutions) also sheds light on a very deeply rooted problem in our tradition of religious liberty itself—a problem that should cause those of us inclined to seek recourse in “conscience protection” and religious exemptions to pause and think."


from this article
Religious Liberty and Civil Society - By Yuval Levin - The Corner - National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/289647/religious-liberty-and-civil-society-yuval-levin)

[Guest]

katz: Nortre Dame is yet another institution to feel the sting of this scorpion. Nortre Dame enthusiatically welcome Obama to speak over the complaints of many catholics. Liberal catholic leaders got what they deserved when they without thought fawned all over this guy. Yet we cannot allow Obama to continue to ignore the U.S. Constitution and the will of the people. I just wish people would take off the rose colored glasses long enough to see what this guy is up to. Geezzzz

[Guest]

I just want to point out for those blind followers on this issue....

EJ DIONE is someone who has always supported this WH, and this is a quote from Wikipedia on him...

"A frequent critic of the Bush Administration, Dionne writes from a liberal viewpoint."

The link given to read has this at the beginning...


"When even E.J. Dionne can’t quite bring himself to defend the Obama administration’s assault on religious liberty, you know the president must have a real problem. In his column today, Dionne tries his best to avoid making his point too clear. He spends most of his time laying out all the nice things Obama has said to liberal Catholics and only then turns to how Obama has now utterly betrayed them. But the point is straightforward: The president is willing to pay lip service to religious liberty, but when it comes time for action he wants to enforce the agenda of the radical left and to push civil society out of the government’s way."

This is mainly for those who choose to ignore all links that folks supply and if they were intellectually honest they at least should have some context and respect for the person who supplied the link

[Guest]

Yes, that is just what the country needs. Santorum changing the USA to Vatican West. Thinking American voters have seen right through his extremism and Santorum is just one more on the Republican rubbish heap like Cain, Perry, and Bachmann.

[Guest]

I often wonder....well, pretty much know if posters on here ever even read the links supplied and do their due dilligence or simply wing it as they fly by with the one liners.

It is a shame...so much to learn....not necessary to agree,but wouldnt it be great if those who object to some things do so with some credibility and knowledge ?

[Guest]

...."Notre Dame University, which employs more than 5,000 people, is going to be given the choice of either expressly violating its religious convictions or paying a $10 million fine to the federal government. It’s bad enough that any employer with a moral objection has to spend his money this way, but it is especially egregious to compel religious institutions to do so."
"....,the fact of the administration’s willingness to do this sheds light on its hostility to (or at the very least its contempt for) religious liberty. But it’s not quite that simple. This incident (and especially the nature of the exemption that the administration was willing to grant, which is essentially an exemption for actual houses of worship but not for other religiously-affiliated institutions) also sheds light on a very deeply rooted problem in our tradition of religious liberty itself—a problem that should cause those of us inclined to seek recourse in “conscience protection” and religious exemptions to pause and think."


from this article
Religious Liberty and Civil Society - By Yuval Levin - The Corner - National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/289647/religious-liberty-and-civil-society-yuval-levin)

so much more crap from the republican right and people who try to turn every mention of contraception into a religious matter. If you truly believe that it is in any way a strike against religious freedom to say that the insurance company must also cover contraceptives you are not being truthful to yourself! what happened to acts of conscience? Use of these drugs is what the church finds unacceptable but that is up to the individual so in essence you are saying that the church is against free will and your ability to be faithful to your beliefs. So Notre Dame University is willing to pay $10,000,000 to remain religiously intolerant. enjoy that....especially when remarking about poor families with 8 kids..

[Guest]

so much more crap from the republican right and people who try to turn every mention of contraception into a religious matter. If you truly believe that it is in any way a strike against religious freedom to say that the insurance company must also cover contraceptives you are not being truthful to yourself! what happened to acts of conscience? Use of these drugs is what the church finds unacceptable but that is up to the individual so in essence you are saying that the church is against free will and your ability to be faithful to your beliefs. So Notre Dame University is willing to pay $10,000,000 to remain religiously intolerant. enjoy that....especially when remarking about poor families with 8 kids..

looneycat: for the liberal leaners there is conflicting news concrning the issue of contraceptives. It seems that the liberals Hollywood darlings are having quite an uptick in pregnancies. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. it appears only law students care about free contraceptives

[Guest]

for anyone interested, there will be a nationwide Religious Liberty rally in 120 cities across the country tomorrow at noon...our local one will be in ocala near the courthouse...if you care about this issue, this is a good time to show up and be counted....the govt is attacking the catholic church in many insidious ways, including having Chase freeze the Vatican's bank account. they will do the same to the smaller churches and synagogues eventually. the ocala courthouse is off of rte 40, after crossing over 27, a couple blocks up on the left, 2nd st, i believe...you should be able to see a big bus parked nearby....of course you probably won't see it on the news!

[Guest]

I don't get how this is an attack on the catholic church when 90% of all catholic women use or have used contraceptives. I'm really sick of all this attack nonsense. No one is being attacked and no ones religious freedom is being taken away. As for freezing money there is a case pending about the catholic church laundering money so the assets are being frozen. As have said before I am a catholic and feel no threat from anyone.

[Guest]

We were in town that weekend for our daughter's graduation from Saint Mary's and our son was a junior at Notre Dame at the time. Notre Dame has a standing invitation to the president of the USA to speak at the graduation. Obama took advantage of the open invitation. Father Jenkins was of the mind that he could bring the pro-abortion leader of the free world in and show him the error of his ways via unconditional love. Obama had other plans and turned it around on Father Jenkins. HIt remains to be seen how powerful the love of the Notre Dame community is.
HOWEVER...
When I posted this article, I personally was noticing the point that Bucco makes. The writer of this article is a long standing loyal supporter of Obama... Maybe, just maybe, someone in the crowd is finally willing to point out the unsepakable truth that the Emperor is naked!

[Guest]

Sometimes I wish I was persecuted the way that Churches are in this country. They get to keep their donations tax-free. That's BILLIONS of dollars.

[Guest]

Sometimes I wish I was persecuted the way that Churches are in this country. They get to keep their donations tax-free. That's BILLIONS of dollars.

"There is said to be an old Arabian proverb: "If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow." This expression is especially pertinent in the tax exemption context. Churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it. If the government is allowed to tax churches (or to condition a tax exemption on a church refraining from the free exercise of religion), the camel's nose is under the tent, and its body is sure to follow. But that's not just my opinion; it's the understanding of the U.S. Supreme Court.

In its 1970 opinion in Walz vs. Tax Commission of the City of New York, the high court stated that a tax exemption for churches "creates only a minimal and remote involvement between church and state and far less than taxation of churches. [An exemption] restricts the fiscal relationship between church and state, and tends to complement and reinforce the desired separation insulating each from the other." The Supreme Court also said that "the power to tax involves the power to destroy." Taxing churches breaks down the healthy separation of church and state and leads to the destruction of the free exercise of religion."

Why don't churches pay taxes? - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/features/religion/la-oew-lynn-stanley23-2008sep23,0,2226105.story)