Voter ID? Are you in favor of it or not?

[Guest]

If yes we could assume one believes there is a voter fraud problem that needs to be solved.

If you are against voter ID tell us why.

It has been known for way too many years about how much voter fraud there is in this country. I 100% am in favor of voter ID. What possible rationale could there be against the requirement?

The only reason for elected officials to be against voter ID is keeping their constituency from being upset....the ones who do not want to follow the rules and I will leave it open....for a number of reasons....none of which are valid to strike down voter ID.

Just another example of a simple problem made complex by the political impact. I suggest the politicians do something unique....do what is right for once....stand and be counted. The majority after all would be with them.

btk

[Guest]

If yes we could assume one believes there is a voter fraud problem that needs to be solved.

If you are against voter ID tell us why.

It has been known for way too many years about how much voter fraud there is in this country. I 100% am in favor of voter ID. What possible rationale could there be against the requirement?

The only reason for elected officials to be against voter ID is keeping their constituency from being upset....the ones who do not want to follow the rules and I will leave it open....for a number of reasons....none of which are valid to strike down voter ID.

Just another example of a simple problem made complex by the political impact. I suggest the politicians do something unique....do what is right for once....stand and be counted. The majority after all would be with them.

btk

I began a similair thread about 2 min before your BTK and if it is ok, will simply add to yours BTK and delete mine...

Assuming
that this is what it appears it is.....down right scary

"U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder has declared that there is no proof that in-person voter fraud is a problem. He's about to see proof that even he can't deny.
In a new video provided to Breitbart.com, James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas demonstrates why Holder should stop attacking voter ID laws--by walking into Holder’s voting precinct and showing the world that anyone can obtain Eric Holder’s primary ballot. Literally.
The video shows a young man entering a Washington, DC polling place at 3401 Nebraska Avenue, NW, on primary day of this year--April 3, 2012--and giving Holder’s name and address. The poll worker promptly offers the young man Holder’s ballot to vote.
The young man then suggests that he should show his ID; the poll worker, in compliance with DC law, states: “You don’t need it. It’s all right. As long as you’re in here, you’re on our list, and that’s who you say you are, you’re okay.”
The young man replies: “I would feel more comfortable if I just had my ID. Is it alright if I go get it?" The poll worker agrees."

O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

[Guest]

on target!!

btk

[Guest]

James O'Keefe is a conservative activist who has made a reputation for himself of misrepresenting the truth on many occasions. One would be very foolish to believe any video provided by him or his organization.

I would think that posters would check out their sources before posting on this forum.

[Guest]

James O'Keefe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O'Keefe)

As to the DC Voting ID Law as exposed by O'Keefe's Project, how many times do you believe this happens??

http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx

[Guest]

The Wikipedia information on James O'Keefe was very enlightening. Basically, one would be very foolish to believe any video of his or his organization.

[Guest]

"In showcasing more blatant liberal hypocrisy, an undercover PJTV investigation highlights liberal groups like the Center for American Progress and the Advancement Project who have the audacity to require photo identification in order to enter their buildings.

Each of these groups has vocally opposed state laws requiring voters to show proof of identification, yet they require it to enter their Washington, D.C., offices."


See video:

Video: Liberals opposing voter ID laws require ID to enter their buildings | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/04/06/video-liberals-opposing-voter-id-laws-require-id-to-enter-their-buildings/)

[Guest]

As long as you ensure there are measures for the poor to have VALID access to whatever kind of Voter ID card you're talking about, I have no problem with this.

Don't disenfranchise those who shouldn't be and then you're only turning those away who SHOULD be turned away.

[Guest]

forget the sources for just one minute and try to answer the the question.

I guess if every class of person, poor, black etc can find a way to get a drivers license or social security number, etc, they will do likewise for a voter ID.

The subject matter, contrary to those who want to continue to present it as such, has nothing to do with preventing anybody legally entitled to vote, to do so. It has all to do with preventing those who are not supposed to be voting from doing so.

How much more simple can it get than that?

btk

[Guest]

As long as you ensure there are measures for the poor to have VALID access to whatever kind of Voter ID card you're talking about, I have no problem with this.

Don't disenfranchise those who shouldn't be and then you're only turning those away who SHOULD be turned away.

perhaps a voter registration/id mobile unit can be assembled and continually scheduled to continuously loop through communities in order to perform the tasks normally conducted at an election office. could be done on a statewide or countywide basis.

motor vehicle agencies could also be set up for providing ids as has been proposed by others.

i know there is significant cost to such proposals - but i'd rather see my tax dollars spent on a voter registration and id program than some of the programs states, counties and local govt spend it on!

[Guest]

Forget the source? LOL - the entire basis for this thread is O'Keefe, who is a phony - just like this thread.

You were far more entertaining when you were whinning about birth certificates.

[Guest]

perhaps a voter registration/id mobile unit can be assembled and continually scheduled to continuously loop through communities in order to perform the tasks normally conducted at an election office. could be done on a statewide or countywide basis.

motor vehicle agencies could also be set up for providing ids as has been proposed by others.

i know there is significant cost to such proposals - but i'd rather see my tax dollars spent on a voter registration and id program than some of the programs states, counties and local govt spend it on!

This is an excellent suggestion. Although the facts don't point to there being a lot of voter fraud, I am not against a voter ID card as long as this is advertised and made available well in advance of any election. The day is probably coming when everyone will be required to have a national ID card much like a social security card, but with your photo and address on it.

[Guest]

James O'Keefe is a conservative activist who has made a reputation for himself of misrepresenting the truth on many occasions. One would be very foolish to believe any video provided by him or his organization.

I would think that posters would check out their sources before posting on this forum.

WHAT TRUTH has been misrepresented please ???????????

[Guest]

coralway...you as usual regarding my intents...just cut the political jousting and answer the question and stop trying to make it what it is not....just one time.

How can you not address a simple question without getting your partisan fluff in a tizzy....just once.

btk

[Guest]

James O'Keefe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O'Keefe)

As to the DC Voting ID Law as exposed by O'Keefe's Project, how many times do you believe this happens??

Voter ID: State Requirements (http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx)

While you are personally crucifying the messenger we will put you down as it is ok to disinfranchise votes and voters...it is ok to STEAL votes.

Got it...wow, you folks will defend anything.....you are actually ok because " how many times do you believe this happens??"

ONCE is more than enough and I would prefer checking ids that having black panthers outside with clubs

[Guest]

We are lucky here in Florida that anyone who doesn't have a voter ID doesn't need one to vote by mail. All a person needs to do is call and request a mail in ballot. No ID required. I expect that churches, etc, will really be advocating to their parishiners to take advantage of the mail-in ballots.

[Guest]

Let's set aside for just a moment the politics of this issue. Ask yourself would you accept a check from a person that refused to verify who they are with a photo ID? I could go on with a dozen more (Would you) questions. Our democracy depends on the election of leaders based on the majority via electoral college.

Anyone rejecting the photo ID card requirement places our free democracy at risk. Just ask the Russian people, Venezulian people, Etc.

Every citizen legally entitled to vote should be required to present a photo ID card to verify their letigimacy. We simply cannot afford fradulent voting.

States have offered free photo ID cards to any citizen. So what's the next excuse . Eric Holder's arguments are weak and transparent

[Guest]

Let's set aside for just a moment the politics of this issue. Ask yourself would you accept a check from a person that refused to verify who they are with a photo ID? I could go on with a dozen more (Would you) questions. Our democracy depends on the election of leaders based on the majority via electoral college.

Anyone rejecting the photo ID card requirement places our free democracy at risk. Just ask the Russian people, Venezulian people, Etc.

Every citizen legally entitled to vote should be required to present a photo ID card to verify their letigimacy. We simply cannot afford fradulent voting.

States have offered free photo ID cards to any citizen. So what's the next excuse . Eric Holder's arguments are weak and transparent

Exactly! If a cop pulls you over what is the first thing he asks for? I can't believe there are people so naive as to believe everyone is going to tell the truth and we don't need to verify who they are. The state will issue an official ID. Of course you must show you are who you say you are. If you have a problem with that then we don't want you voting. We want only verified citizens deciding who is going to lead OUR country.

[Guest]

Liberals are really the mind numbed robots they call Republicans. The liberal line as promoted by the administration and it's compliant national media is; "registration is no good, because is disenfranchises Americans at the polling place who cannot or will not carry identification". The fact that you cannot conduct any other important business in this country without proof of identification is irrelevant to the observant liberal.

They couldn't care less about the rights or wrongs of this issue, they do what they're told.

[Guest]

Liberals are really the mind numbed robots they call Republicans. The liberal line as promoted by the administration and it's compliant national media is; "registration is no good, because is disenfranchises Americans at the polling place who cannot or will not carry identification". The fact that you cannot conduct any other important business in this country without proof of identification is irrelevant to the observant liberal.

They couldn't care less about the rights or wrongs of this issue, they do what they're told.

What do you tell the elderly African-American person who uses maybe their social security card, voter registration or a utility bill as identification because that's all they have, but none of them are acceptable as ID to vote because they don't have a photo? This person can't go to the DMV for a free voter ID card, since they were not allowed to be born in a hospital due to their race, and there is no birth certificate or record of them ever being born. I would imagine this situation is not uncommon only among the elderly, but anyone born before the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964.

Lucky for us here in Florida, you don't need voter ID to vote by mail so this elderly person can vote by just calling and requesting a mail-in ballot. Not all states have this advantage.

Some residents of TV who moved here from other parts of Florida may be surprised on election day when they're not allowed to vote if they haven't changed their address. Part of the new law does not allow you to change your address on election day.

[Guest]

Forget the source? LOL - the entire basis for this thread is O'Keefe, who is a phony - just like this thread.

You were far more entertaining when you were whinning about birth certificates.

What difference does the source make as long as it is true, real and actual ?

It ACTUALLY HAPPENED...and the DOJ had a response like this...

"“It’s no coincidence that these so-called examples of rampant voter fraud consistently turn out to be manufactured ones.”

They are correct, no question about it...NO voter fraud, but what happened was true. The folks you question were very careful to get it on camera, to never even say that he WAS Holder thus not impersonating and never tried to vote.

And what is strange, as states pass laws requiring them (Pennsylvania being the most recent) the DOJ ignores things like when Indiana's really strict voter id law was upheld by the US Supreme Court 6-3 and written by a LIBERAL justice.

There is an article out today about how the FBI is concerned about our liberal (not intended to be political) attitude throughout the world is allowing SPIES to enter our universities all over the globe. We already have voter id law in more than half of our states and yet the United States Department of Justice opposes it.

Our DOJ is actually blocking implementing in two states.

[Guest]

What do you tell the elderly African-American person who uses maybe their social security card, voter registration or a utility bill as identification because that's all they have, but none of them are acceptable as ID to vote because they don't have a photo? This person can't go to the DMV for a free voter ID card, since they were not allowed to be born in a hospital due to their race, and there is no birth certificate or record of them ever being born. I would imagine this situation is not uncommon only among the elderly, but anyone born before the Civil Rights Act passed in 1964.

Lucky for us here in Florida, you don't need voter ID to vote by mail so this elderly person can vote by just calling and requesting a mail-in ballot. Not all states have this advantage.

Some residents of TV who moved here from other parts of Florida may be surprised on election day when they're not allowed to vote if they haven't changed their address. Part of the new law does not allow you to change your address on election day.

That's an interesting concern. I know a few caucasians who were also born at home. Must have been a real pain for them to get birth certificates too.

[Guest]

there is an organization dedicated to seeking out voter fraud and preventing it....True the Vote...i am sure if you google it you will get all kinds of actual statistics on how often this has been discovered...way too often!!!

[Guest]

That's an interesting concern. I know a few caucasians who were also born at home. Must have been a real pain for them to get birth certificates too.

I am going to investigate my home state of PA at some point, but if they worked they had to have a SSN.....paystubs, bank accounts, etc. I know some state will allow that as ID.

And someone mentioned someone moving and not changing their address. To me, this is just an extension of our already simply undercutting any personal responsibility ! To me, if that happens that is YOUR fault and totally irresponsible.

There will be concerns always and the groups against it are pretty predictable, but what is obscene is our own DOJ.

[Guest]

I am going to investigate my home state of PA at some point, but if they worked they had to have a SSN.....paystubs, bank accounts, etc. I know some state will allow that as ID.

And someone mentioned someone moving and not changing their address. To me, this is just an extension of our already simply undercutting any personal responsibility ! To me, if that happens that is YOUR fault and totally irresponsible.

There will be concerns always and the groups against it are pretty predictable, but what is obscene is our own DOJ.

If it were only as simple as using a SSN, paystubs, bank accounts, etc. Unfortunately, some states are requiring a state issued photo ID. In Florida, you can't even get in the door to renew your drivers license or state issued ID without a birth certificate or passpost. In Texas, they will accept a gun license but not a college ID issued from a state run school.

[Guest]

If it were only as simple as using a SSN, paystubs, bank accounts, etc. Unfortunately, some states are requiring a state issued photo ID. In Florida, you can't even get in the door to renew your drivers license or state issued ID without a birth certificate or passpost. In Texas, they will accept a gun license but not a college ID issued from a state run school.

I think all that is good

[Guest]

YES to an ID. Also, I want to hear how Holder tries to gets out of this one!

[Guest]

YES to an ID. Also, I want to hear how Holder tries to gets out of this one!

I would suppose the same way he keeps protecting the action of the Black Panthers which I think is criminal, and literally so, based on hate speech which is a violation of the law. That is to simply ignore it because he is NEVER called out on what he does or does not do.

[Guest]

I would suppose the same way he keeps protecting the action of the Black Panthers which I think is criminal, and literally so, based on hate speech which is a violation of the law. That is to simply ignore it because he is NEVER called out on what he does or does not do.

...and exactly why (in your opinion) is AG Holder never called out on what he does or does not do?

[Guest]

...and exactly why (in your opinion) is AG Holder never called out on what he does or does not do?

He is the highest law man in the land. To whom do we report him? The lier?

[Guest]

This would kill two birds. One voter fraud and two, food stamp (check card) fraud. The food stamp system needs to be tightened up.

[Guest]

I suspect it would/could have an impact on the myriad of immigration issues as well (hence another political reason to not support the proposal....eh?).

btk

[Guest]

He is the highest law man in the land. To whom do we report him? The lier?

Good point

[Guest]

Originally Posted by CMANN
"He is the highest law man in the land. To whom do we report him? The lier?"


CMANN,

Why would you be reporting AG Holder to GEORGE "JUNIOR" BUSH? Of course, that is who you would have to be referring to as The Liar. (Sadaam has weapons of mass destruction, invade Iraq for lower oil prices, "Mission Accomplished", etc)

[Guest]

Originally Posted by CMANN
"He is the highest law man in the land. To whom do we report him? The lier?"


CMANN,

Why would you be reporting AG Holder to GEORGE "JUNIOR" BUSH? Of course, that is who you would have to be referring to as The Liar. (Sadaam has weapons of mass destruction, invade Iraq for lower oil prices, "Mission Accomplished", etc)

Hey politicians, lips moving........

[Guest]

For those that think it's ok to not show picture id maybe rec centers should just do the same or maybe airports,trains and other place where you must show picture id.Voter fraud does happen Im from Chicago has happened their even when they had to show id.The dead would often vote.

[Guest]

James O'Keefe is a conservative activist who has made a reputation for himself of misrepresenting the truth on many occasions. One would be very foolish to believe any video provided by him or his organization.

I would think that posters would check out their sources before posting on this forum.

James O'Keefe is following in the footsteps of the Late Mike Wallace who practiced similiar journalism on 60 Minutes and earlier shows.

[Guest]

James O'Keefe is following in the footsteps of the Late Mike Wallace who practiced similiar journalism on 60 Minutes and earlier shows.

Mike Wallace was feared as a journalist. James O'Keefe seems to get more laughter than fear.
More akin to Candid Camera than 60 Minutes.

News Desk: James O’Keefe Still Hasn’t Found His Voter Fraud : The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2012/04/james-okeefe-still-hasnt-found-his-voter-fraud.html)

[Guest]

Seems to me that laughing at the possibility of voter fraud is ....well..suspicious I suppose.

I find that possibility chillIng and am amazed at anyone who does find it funny.

[Guest]

There may be genuine reasons to have a National ID system, but it would have to be phased in over a reasonable length of time. Many of my Democratic/Liberal friends may have a problem with this, but I don't. In my opinion, fraudulent voting is not a serious issue. To hurry it up is a serious issue. I will be opened minded about it and this is an opportunity for my mind to be changed by facts. Please link recent (last two decades) credible data by state that says otherwise. By credible data, I not talking about some one's opinion. Documented facts would do just fine. MSNBC nor Fox need to apply!

The real problem appears to be winning an election this year for the Conservatives/GOP. If your candidates aren't viable, keeping Democratic/Liberal voters away from the polls is a major benefit toward that end. If it can't be won on it's merits - cheat.

Xavier

[Guest]

As long as you ensure there are measures for the poor to have VALID access to whatever kind of Voter ID card you're talking about, I have no problem with this.

Don't disenfranchise those who shouldn't be and then you're only turning those away who SHOULD be turned away.

I agree.
JJ

[Guest]

'X', I was fine with your post and the need for "facts".

Then you went and spoiled it with partisan, talking point opposition slandering. You take a general condition (voter fraud) that has been known to exist for years for every election no matter whether R or D and then attempt to make it specific to facilitate the need for Republicans to turn voters away for the ridiculous reasons you list:

"The real problem appears to be winning an election this year for the Conservatives/GOP. If your candidates aren't viable, keeping Democratic/Liberal voters away from the polls is a major benefit toward that end. If it can't be won on it's merits - cheat."

You usually maintain your support for your party and your beliefs without the usual slandering done so frequently by some of your compatriots. The back end of your post is really demeaning to your past style.

Without links and facts and what ever else you call for above. Can you reach a non partisan, business, common sense, R or D neutral opinion why YOU think voter ID is either a good idea or a bad idea.

The real issue is if in fact voter fraud no matter how much there is or insignificant, if the voter registration/ID at the polls streamlines the entire process and eliminates the opportunity for fraud.....why not do it.
Really try to think without a partisan bent. Problem solve like in school or at work where nobody ever needed to include a diatribe on party preference to make a point.

Ditto the above for any others that are trying to make a partisan banquet out of ham sandwich.

btk

[Guest]

There may be genuine reasons to have a National ID system, but it would have to be phased in over a reasonable length of time. Many of my Democratic/Liberal friends may have a problem with this, but I don't. In my opinion, fraudulent voting is not a serious issue. To hurry it up is a serious issue. I will be opened minded about it and this is an opportunity for my mind to be changed by facts. Please link recent (last two decades) credible data by state that says otherwise. By credible data, I not talking about some one's opinion. Documented facts would do just fine. MSNBC nor Fox need to apply!

The real problem appears to be winning an election this year for the Conservatives/GOP. If your candidates aren't viable, keeping Democratic/Liberal voters away from the polls is a major benefit toward that end. If it can't be won on it's merits - cheat.

Xavier

It is not new....been going on for about 8 years and now MOST states have some form of id requirements for voting and has not been hurried. It is pretty much voted on by the states in referendum (not sure if 100%)..Pennsylvania was the last state to pass this law.

Hard to KNOW for sure how much fraud....not something that folks will own up to for sure. Been reports for years, investigated and could not find strong enough evidence to support prosecution.

Listen, the time is very near where you will need a federal or state id anyway..for many other reasons and you can prevent just ONE case of somebody cheating with their vote, it is worth all the effort.

[Guest]

Here is an article that atually demonstrates voter fraud usinig Holder's name and surprise surprise Holder looks you straight in the face and essentially says "it ain't so"


Justice Downplays Stunt that Stole Holder's Vote (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/holder-vote-stunt-fraud/2012/04/09/id/435314?s=al&promo_code=E9DE-1)

[Guest]

the link below for informational use, shows the map of the US color coded to show\
STRICT PHOTO
PHOTO
NON PHOTO
NO VOTER ID

Voter ID: State Requirements (http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx)

[Guest]

Here is an article that atually demonstrates voter fraud usinig Holder's name and surprise surprise Holder looks you straight in the face and essentially says "it ain't so"


Justice Downplays Stunt that Stole Holder's Vote (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/holder-vote-stunt-fraud/2012/04/09/id/435314?s=al&promo_code=E9DE-1)

Isn't that amazing and folks find it "laughable" (possibility of stealing votes = laughable, OR they demean the messenger. It shows how easily it can be done, and the DOJ "downplaying" it is pretty scary since they are supposed to enforce voting law.

[Guest]

You can't use a utility bill to get a social security number. Yet, unfortunately in New Hampshire, you CAN use a utility bill to register to vote at the polls.

Well, a few years ago, my ex-mother-in-law was rear-ended by a driver who got out of the car, panicked and left the scene. Fortunately nobody was seriously hurt. HOWEVER - the guy's license plate fell off the car. The cops traced it to a woman who said that her car was stolen. The police are pretty sure she was lying since she hadn't reported it stolen until just then. The cops said that, most likely from their experience, the driver was a friend here illegally - perhaps the whole family was.

Well, they had electric and water service there. They most likely had cable. That means these illegals COULD VOTE (using those bills as 'proof' of residency) - and that is something I'm VERY much against.

[Guest]

You can't use a utility bill to get a social security number. Yet, unfortunately in New Hampshire, you CAN use a utility bill to register to vote at the polls.

Well, a few years ago, my ex-mother-in-law was rear-ended by a driver who got out of the car, panicked and left the scene. Fortunately nobody was seriously hurt. HOWEVER - the guy's license plate fell off the car. The cops traced it to a woman who said that her car was stolen. The police are pretty sure she was lying since she hadn't reported it stolen until just then. The cops said that, most likely from their experience, the driver was a friend here illegally - perhaps the whole family was.

Well, they had electric and water service there. They most likely had cable. That means these illegals COULD VOTE (using those bills as 'proof' of residency) - and that is something I'm VERY much against.

I don't often agree with you but allow me to on this one. Folks can make fun of the people who showed how easy it is to "steal" anothers vote but instead of the DOJ poking a bit of fun, they might put on a serious face to it.

[Guest]

Here is an article that atually demonstrates voter fraud usinig Holder's name and surprise surprise Holder looks you straight in the face and essentially says "it ain't so"


Justice Downplays Stunt that Stole Holder's Vote (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/holder-vote-stunt-fraud/2012/04/09/id/435314?s=al&promo_code=E9DE-1)

I just love these gotcha things. About as useful as a pimple on one's behind. Since he never voted, I guess we'll never know if he would have been arrested. Republican activists love this approach. <yawn>

Xavier

[Guest]

A 2006 report of a five year probe put out of the US Justice Department (Bush's Justice Department) found a total of 53 voter fraud convictions nationwide. That's 53 over a five year period. This is what I'm talking about when I ask for links for credible data.

It's 5MB file: Click Here (http://www.justice.gov/criminal/pin/docs/arpt-2006.pdf)

Xavier

[Guest]

It is not new....been going on for about 8 years and now MOST states have some form of id requirements for voting and has not been hurried. It is pretty much voted on by the states in referendum (not sure if 100%)..Pennsylvania was the last state to pass this law.

Hard to KNOW for sure how much fraud....not something that folks will own up to for sure. Been reports for years, investigated and could not find strong enough evidence to support prosecution.

Listen, the time is very near where you will need a federal or state id anyway..for many other reasons and you can prevent just ONE case of somebody cheating with their vote, it is worth all the effort.

How many of the states that have or are now pushing through these potentially voter disenfranchising ID laws have Democrat Governors? Knowing this information might just give you the idea of why some are looking at their ulterior motives.

53 convictions nationwide over a 5 year period! (see my post above) Is it right to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands to catch the small number that break the rules? Yeah, we don't want them to get away with it, but can't we be reasonable and put together something nationwide in a well thought out plan?

Xavier

[Guest]

How many of the states that have or are now pushing through these potentially voter disenfranchising ID laws have Democrat Governors? Knowing this information might just give you the idea of why some are looking at their ulterior motives.

53 convictions nationwide over a 5 year period! (see my post above) Is it right to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands to catch the small number that break the rules? Yeah, we don't want them to get away with it, but can't we be reasonable and put together something nationwide in a well thought out plan?

Xavier

If republicans had spent as much time trying to find a good candidate with good constructive ideas as they have worrying about voter fraud, perhaps then President Obama would have something to worry about. As it is today, there are no more toss-up states. The president is leading in the polls in all previously labeled toss-up states. Gov Romney has only won the primary in blue states or states that are heavily mormon. With Rick Santorum out of the race, evangelicals will have to swallow hard to vote for Romney. Can you spell L-A-N-D-S-L-I-D-E?

[Guest]

Here are forms of ID used for voting at Florida polls. Just what is the problem with asking for one of these??? How is anyone "disenfranchised" by being asked for one of these?

At the polls, you will be asked to provide a valid picture identification with signature. The following photo ids will be accepted:

Florida driver’s license
Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
United States passport
Debit or credit card
Military identification
Student identification
Retirement center identification
Neighborhood association identification
Public assistance identification.

Voting Information - Florida Division of Elections - Department of State (http://election.dos.state.fl.us/voting/voting-info.shtml)

[Guest]

Notice some folks jumping for glee based on polls and they may end up that happy, but as someone who has been involved INTIMATELY with politics for many many years, allow me to caution you how much time is left AND to share, as folks on here seem to be in love with polls...

In March of 1980 Carter led Reagan by 25 points and lost

In June of 1992 Clinton was not even 2nd..Perot was..Clinton was 3rd Clinton beat George HW Bush

And let me assure beyond any chance of being wrong that the guns will now ONLY be aimed at Obama and there are weaknesses and Romney has all the money to insure that all americans know it.

Not saying Romney will win or anything...I just KNOW from experience, it is much too early to begin to cheer....on that fact I am positive...been there and done that.


PS...Just wanted to add that the last electoral chart I saw the race would be a dead heat as of now.

[Guest]

I really still don't get this debate. I have ALWAYS had to provide my photo ID to vote for as long as I can remember. How can we possibly be debating whether or not people should be required to do so?!?! On the other hand, the guy in the White House didn't have to provide proof of anything before being put on the ballot...silly me! :shocked:

[Guest]

I really still don't get this debate. I have ALWAYS had to provide my photo ID to vote for as long as I can remember. How can we possibly be debating whether or not people should be required to do so?!?! On the other hand, the guy in the White House didn't have to provide proof of anything before being put on the ballot...silly me! :shocked:

check those who object to this....HARD HARD VERY HARD LEFT WING

AND of course our own Department of Justice !!!!!

[Guest]

I really still don't get this debate. I have ALWAYS had to provide my photo ID to vote for as long as I can remember. How can we possibly be debating whether or not people should be required to do so?!?! On the other hand, the guy in the White House didn't have to provide proof of anything before being put on the ballot...silly me! :shocked:

He came from Chicago where the way is to cheat,lie ,payoff who ever and plead the 5th when caught.Jesse Jackson Jr is being investigated for trying to buy a senate seat yet Pelosi still endorses him makes you wonder who the hell votes for these clowns.And the guy you refer too gets a sweetheart deal on property next to his.which was payoff for the hud deals Resko made.

[Guest]

Notice some folks jumping for glee based on polls and they may end up that happy, but as someone who has been involved INTIMATELY with politics for many many years, allow me to caution you how much time is left AND to share, as folks on here seem to be in love with polls...

In March of 1980 Carter led Reagan by 25 points and lost

In June of 1992 Clinton was not even 2nd..Perot was..Clinton was 3rd Clinton beat George HW Bush

And let me assure beyond any chance of being wrong that the guns will now ONLY be aimed at Obama and there are weaknesses and Romney has all the money to insure that all americans know it.

Not saying Romney will win or anything...I just KNOW from experience, it is much too early to begin to cheer....on that fact I am positive...been there and done that.


PS...Just wanted to add that the last electoral chart I saw the race would be a dead heat as of now.




Can you post a link to that electoral chart that shows the race would be a dead heat as of now?

[Guest]

Isn't that amazing and folks find it "laughable" (possibility of stealing votes = laughable, OR they demean the messenger. It shows how easily it can be done, and the DOJ "downplaying" it is pretty scary since they are supposed to enforce voting law.

I find absolutely nothing laughable about the 2000 or 2004 Presidential elections. I do find it totally laughable when some dipstick goes out of his way to punk someone to enhance their political stance when the problem is so minuscule.

Xavier

[Guest]

Can you post a link to that electoral chart that shows the race would be a dead heat as of now?

"Gallup has released their state-by-state Presidential approval polling. The results do not look good for the President. If you take the simple analysis that any state with a negative rating will go to the Republican, and any state with a positive rating will go to Obama, November promises to be a bloodbath for the incumbent."

2012 Electoral College Projection | Race 4 2012 (http://race42012.com/category/2012-electoral-college-projection/)

You can find them all over the place...they vary of course depending on the bias

AND most importantly they will change pretty quickly now that the race is down to two...could favor Obama or Romney, but polls at this time in an election year are worthless.

[Guest]

1. Unless a person has no legitimate financial means of support, it is impossible to exist in this country.
2. States requiring Voter IDs will provide a free ID including access/travel to the issuing location.
3. I am constantly amazed by the number of people who get out the driver's seat of a vehicle, go into a store to buy tobacco or alcohol, then say they do not have proof of age.
4. Why do proponents have to "prove" illegal voting occurs? (Only the obtuse would deny it exists.) Why not be proactive by doing a Barney Fife? "Nip it, nip it in the bud."

[Guest]

A 2006 report of a five year probe put out of the US Justice Department (Bush's Justice Department) found a total of 53 voter fraud convictions nationwide. That's 53 over a five year period. This is what I'm talking about when I ask for links for credible data.

It's 5MB file: Click Here (http://www.justice.gov/criminal/pin/docs/arpt-2006.pdf)

Xavier

Those are the one's that got caught...what about all the others who got away with it?

[Guest]

1. Unless a person has no legitimate financial means of support, it is impossible to exist in this country.
2. States requiring Voter IDs will provide a free ID including access/travel to the issuing location.
3. I am constantly amazed by the number of people who get out the driver's seat of a vehicle, go into a store to buy tobacco or alcohol, then say they do not have proof of age.
4. Why do proponents have to "prove" illegal voting occurs? (Only the obtuse would deny it exists.) Why not be proactive by doing a Barney Fife? "Nip it, nip it in the bud."

:bigbow:

[Guest]

I just love these gotcha things. About as useful as a pimple on one's behind. Since he never voted, I guess we'll never know if he would have been arrested. Republican activists love this approach. <yawn>

Xavier

Hi Xavier: I avoid the "is so" is not" game playing. so let me pose this scenario.

America today is so security conscious there is not much we can do buy or go that doesn't require identification. so exactly how many people do you really think are inconvienced by presenting a photo ID card. Say what you will or will what you say but it is critical to America,Americans and those countries affected by the presidential outcome that a fair clean and legal election take place. It surprises me that liberals who have at the front of their agenda "fairness" can't seem to grasp the need for "fairness in our election process. By demanding photo ID's we satisify everyone that dead people and dogs didn't vote and that every American who wanted to vote did so but only once.

[Guest]

It's only the liberals who are against proving who you are when you want to vote in an election.

I find this very instructive.

I also have to laugh heartily when proponents of having people prove who they are are called "extremists". Is that hilarious, or what?

[Guest]

It's only the liberals who are against proving who you are when you want to vote in an election.

I find this very instructive.

I also have to laugh heartily when proponents of having people prove who they are are called "extremists". Is that hilarious, or what?

Richielion: Liberals are even creative in their opposition. I mean their excuses are so lame, Geeezzz. I'm done with this thread

[Guest]

It's a villainous world. I don't see why some have a beef with the picture ID. Hiding something would be my guess.

[Guest]

Why don't the Republicans just admit it? The only reason they want voter ID, and I do mean the only reason, is to suppress voting in their favor. They can wrap themselves around the ridiculous notion that voter fraud is rampant and they want to solve a problem that doesn't even exist all they want but their motives are clear. :ohdear:

[Guest]

Why don't the Republicans just admit it? The only reason they want voter ID, and I do mean the only reason, is to suppress voting in their favor. They can wrap themselves around the ridiculous notion that voter fraud is rampant and they want to solve a problem that doesn't even exist all they want but their motives are clear. :ohdear:

That would be hard to do for an honest person. Why should I lie to appease the left?

[Guest]

Why don't the Republicans just admit it? The only reason they want voter ID, and I do mean the only reason, is to suppress voting in their favor. They can wrap themselves around the ridiculous notion that voter fraud is rampant and they want to solve a problem that doesn't even exist all they want but their motives are clear. :ohdear:

The only thing I would admit is that your post is total unadulterated b.s.

Why don't you admit that the only reason you're against voter i.d. is so that people who aren't legally qualified to vote can do so?

There is no other reason this this most important of all public functions is the only thing that you insist shouldn't require you to prove who you are.

Why do you want them to be able to vote?

If you say that's not the reason, I say your pants on on fire.

P.S. If what you're saying is that people who are legally not able to vote, do indeed get to vote, they would vote for Democrats. Why don't you just come out and say it. Just be honest about it.

[Guest]

Why don't the Republicans just admit it? The only reason they want voter ID, and I do mean the only reason, is to suppress voting in their favor. They can wrap themselves around the ridiculous notion that voter fraud is rampant and they want to solve a problem that doesn't even exist all they want but their motives are clear. :ohdear:

No Dale, you have the situation quite backwards. The reason Republicans support voter id is to ensure that the principle each man/women gets one vote and only one vote. The reason Democrats oppose it is to continue ballot box stuffing and illegal voting. The only examples we have seen of voter intimidation have been those done by Democrats. The only examples of illegal registration are those done by Democrats. The only examples of forged signatures are again those by Democrats. Please tell me why you are so opposed to the idea of one and only one vote for each person.

[Guest]

I would just like to hear ANY rational explanation from those against voter ID why they think it is a bad or not a good idea.

PLEASE, PLEASE if it is humanly possible see if the answer can be rational and not partisan. I know it is a lot to ask. And also that you may not be allowed to do so!!

But let's see if one is willing to give it a try.

btk

[Guest]

There may be genuine reasons to have a National ID system, but it would have to be phased in over a reasonable length of time. Many of my Democratic/Liberal friends may have a problem with this, but I don't. In my opinion, fraudulent voting is not a serious issue. To hurry it up is a serious issue. I will be opened minded about it and this is an opportunity for my mind to be changed by facts. Please link recent (last two decades) credible data by state that says otherwise. By credible data, I not talking about some one's opinion. Documented facts would do just fine. MSNBC nor Fox need to apply!

The real problem appears to be winning an election this year for the Conservatives/GOP. If your candidates aren't viable, keeping Democratic/Liberal voters away from the polls is a major benefit toward that end. If it can't be won on it's merits - change the rules (I exchanged "change the rules" with the word "cheat").

Xavier

A 2006 report of a five year probe put out of the US Justice Department (Bush's Justice Department) found a total of 53 voter fraud convictions nationwide. That's 53 over a five year period. This is what I'm talking about when I ask for links for credible data.

It's 5MB file: Click Here (http://www.justice.gov/criminal/pin/docs/arpt-2006.pdf)

Xavier

How many of the states that have or are now pushing through these potentially voter disenfranchising ID laws have Democrat Governors? Knowing this information might just give you the idea of why some are looking at their ulterior motives.

53 convictions nationwide over a 5 year period! (see my post above) Is it right to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands to catch the small number that break the rules? Yeah, we don't want them to get away with it, but can't we be reasonable and put together something nationwide in a well thought out plan?

Xavier

I find absolutely nothing laughable about the 2000 or 2004 Presidential elections. I do find it totally laughable when some dipstick goes out of his way to punk someone to enhance their political stance when the problem is so minuscule.

Xavier

Xavier

[Guest]

Xavier, you may be right that it would disenfranchise hundreds of thousands and I will agree with you if you can introduce me to even five of hundreds of thousands. That shouldn't be too difficult if what you say is true. There must be at least 50,000 here in Florida.

[Guest]

I don't get all Xavier's repostings. Nothing in anything he's saying explains why voter I.D. is a bad idea. Regardless of how many people have been convicted of voter fraud, the chance of voter fraud is there. Just as a bank won't cash your check without I.D. you should have to prove you are who you are to vote. It's the only thing that makes sense.

[Guest]

No Dale, you have the situation quite backwards. The reason Republicans support voter id is to ensure that the principle each man/women gets one vote and only one vote. The reason Democrats oppose it is to continue ballot box stuffing and illegal voting. The only examples we have seen of voter intimidation have been those done by Democrats. The only examples of illegal registration are those done by Democrats. The only examples of forged signatures are again those by Democrats. Please tell me why you are so opposed to the idea of one and only one vote for each person.

It seems we disagree. :icon_wink:

[Guest]

It seems we disagree. :icon_wink: You say we disagreed and I concur. I believer in the principle of one person, one vote. You apparently do not.

[Guest]

You say we disagreed and I concur. I believer in the principle of one person, one vote. You apparently do not.

No, I believe on one vote for one person. What I don't believe in is one party attempting to suppress voting to their advantage. But their will never be an admission on the part of Republicans as to their real motive so to argue is not worth it. :(

[Guest]

hmmmmnnnn, starting to look like they may not be allowed to respond without partisan banter!

btk

[Guest]

Lets see you need a id to bank,if your on any form of public aid,to travel and to drive and do just about anything.So who are these people that don't have any form id.I do not know 1 person with out it so wheres the problem?

[Guest]

In Florida one doesn't need ID to vote by mail. It's as simple as calling your elections office and requesting a mail-in ballot. The supervisors of election encourage everyone to vote by mail. It makes their jobs that much easier on election day.

[Guest]

the FL call in /mail routine pretty much demonstrates the problem trying to be solved beautifully!!

btk

[Guest]

IMHO I think early voting should be eliminated. I say this as someone who always votes early. I think absentee ballots should be for shut-ins only. Everybody knows when election day is. If you can't be in town to vote then you're out of luck. I know this is harsh and I'm ready for the arrows.

[Guest]

No, I believe on one vote for one person. What I don't believe in is one party attempting to suppress voting to their advantage. But their will never be an admission on the part of Republicans as to their real motive so to argue is not worth it. :(

The Republican's real motive: only proven legally qualified people can vote.

The Democrat's real motive: let everyone vote without scrutiny.

You're welcome Dale.

[Guest]

We are lucky here in Florida that anyone who doesn't have a voter ID doesn't need one to vote by mail. All a person needs to do is call and request a mail in ballot. No ID required. I expect that churches, etc, will really be advocating to their parishiners to take advantage of the mail-in ballots.

Could I ask that you clarify your comment intent? I'm sure that you are not suggesting that churches would advocate voter fraud? That would be a very unkind, let alone uncalled for statement. Surely that was not your intent.

[Guest]

Richie I like the guidelines you provided but would modify the presentation ever so slightly:

For voter voter ID: only proven legally qualified people can vote.

Against voter ID: let everyone vote without scrutiny (as many times as possible).

How could ANYBODY be against it?

btk

[Guest]

[/I][/B]

Could I ask that you clarify your comment intent? I'm sure that you are not suggesting that churches would advocate voter fraud? That would be a very unkind, let alone uncalled for statement. Surely that was not your intent.

My intent was to say that elderly African-American people who can't get a birth certificate because they were not allowed to be born in a hospital because of their race and therefore cannot get a voter ID, have the option of voting by mail in Florida. These people have been voting for years, but were never required before to have a government issued photo ID.

[Guest]

My intent was to say that elderly African-American people who can't get a birth certificate because they were not allowed to be born in a hospital because of their race and therefore cannot get a voter ID, have the option of voting by mail in Florida. These people have been voting for years, but were never required before to have a government issued photo ID.

janmcn Really! You believe that an "elderly" person having lived that long hadn't secured a photo ID card. Really!

[Guest]

As I dwell on this subject, a few thoughts....

.....Last week, Obama’s home state of Illinois passed a law requiring government-issued photo identification for the purchase of industrial drain cleaners. NO outrage over this

.....Many grocery stores if not all require a photo Id to pay with a credit card.

....Airline traffic requires a photo id

....Buying alchol requires a photo ID

....You cannot apply for social services without a photo id (just learned this one)


That is one side of the picture...

Illegal immigrants are infamous for lying and defrauding the photo id requirements to get jobs and it is so prevelant that states are now passing strong laws to punish these folks. WHY would they not lie to vote ? It seems it is easier than buying something to unclog your drain or buy booze or apply for welfare.

Now put them all togther and you have a recipe for disaster

The democratic party and our government is concerned about folks being disinfranchised. They mention some specific cases. The money they spend, the democratic party, etc, to bus voters in and go house to house to take folks to the polls would for sure pay to assist those who need help to get an id..dont you think.

[Guest]

janmcn, The following are required to apply for Medicare benefits for identification purposes:

• your original birth certificate or other proof of birth [more info] (You may also submit a copy of your birth certificate certified by the issuing agency).;
• your original citizenship or naturalization papers [more info];
• a copy of your U.S. military service paper(s) (e.g., DD-214 - Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty) if you had military service before 1968; [more info]; and
• a copy of your W-2 form(s) [more info] and/or self-employment tax return [more info] for last year.

With these you should be able to get a photo id. Are you telling me that these 'elderly African American people' have not received Social Security benefits? I will agree with you if you can introduce me to just five of these people. Otherwise, your argument does not hold water. This may seem stubborn, but I'm from Missouri and you have to show me.

[Guest]

janmcn, The following are required to apply for Medicare benefits for identification purposes:

• your original birth certificate or other proof of birth [more info] (You may also submit a copy of your birth certificate certified by the issuing agency).;
• your original citizenship or naturalization papers [more info];
• a copy of your U.S. military service paper(s) (e.g., DD-214 - Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty) if you had military service before 1968; [more info]; and
• a copy of your W-2 form(s) [more info] and/or self-employment tax return [more info] for last year.

With these you should be able to get a photo id. Are you telling me that these 'elderly African American people' have not received Social Security benefits? I will agree with you if you can introduce me to just five of these people. Otherwise, your argument does not hold water. This may seem stubborn, but I'm from Missouri and you have to show me.

Meet Dorothy Cooper and Thelma Mitchell. I'll be back with three more as soon as I get back from cheerleading practice.


96-Year-Old Black Woman Denied Right to Vote in Tennessee - COLORLINES (http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/10/96-year-old_tennessee_african-american_woman_denied_voter_id_because_she_didnt_h ave_her_marriage_lic.html)


http://www.nationofchange.org/93-year-old-tennessee-woman-who-cleaned-state-capitol-30-years-denied-voter-id-1324999846

[Guest]

Meet Dorothy Cooper and Thelma Mitchell. I'll be back with three more as soon as I get back from cheerleading practice.


96-Year-Old Black Woman Denied Right to Vote in Tennessee - COLORLINES (http://colorlines.com/archives/2011/10/96-year-old_tennessee_african-american_woman_denied_voter_id_because_she_didnt_h ave_her_marriage_lic.html)


93-Year-Old Tennessee Woman Who Cleaned State Capitol for 30 Years Denied Voter ID | NationofChange (http://www.nationofchange.org/93-year-old-tennessee-woman-who-cleaned-state-capitol-30-years-denied-voter-id-1324999846)

1. I do not doubt the veracity of the general story, but if you have to go to websites like this you are stretching quite a bit.

2. In both cases, there was a clerical error and each has a sentence, albeit not emphazed that each of them could actually vote one they did what was required.

3. I actually as a result of MY error in not understanding had that problem (the marriage certificate) with my wifes drivers liscense renewal, readily fixed.

4. This sentence from your second link "The incident is the just latest in a series of reports of senior citizens being denied their constitutional right to vote under restrictive new voter ID laws pushed by Republican governors and legislatures. These laws are a transparent attempt to target Democrat constituencies who are less likely to have photo ID’s, and disproportionately affect seniors, college students, the poor and minorities." says it all...TOTAL AND COMPLETELY POLITICAL.

5. I am betting that there are older black women who vote Republican.

6. Even though they can vote, no matter your distorted presentation, can they buy drain cleaner ?