Which Presidential candidate would you think would be better on victims' rights?

[Guest]

As you probably know by now, I have been very much interested in victims/survivors' rights since around February 1976 when my then English high school teacher's daughter, Michelle, was murdered on 2-24 in Reno, NV. This was while I was in high school. The police questioned any student in my English teacher's class who knew Michelle and a few months later had a policeman visit the class to talk about how we could get over this murder. He basically just gave us a tough love lecture by going over the history of murders in Northern Nevada.

Anyway, very publicized murders like Michelle's as well as Trayvon Martin's can test the criminal justice system. Michelle's was solved in 1979 through a jailhouse snitch who heard the murderer bragging about killing Michelle while in a prison in Louisiana.

Just who was the victim in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman matter though?

It seems to depend on one's views about self-defense, racism, and a number of other factors.

Both Mitt Romney and President Obama seem to have stayed above the fray of the Zimmerman/Martin matter and jus said what for the authorities to do their jobs.

From recent events, do you think that President Obama or Mitt Romney would be a better advocate for victims/survivors in various Federal cases?? Republicans have often been very strong on the issue of victims' rights; while often Democrats factor in the rights of the accused to a greater extent.

[Guest]

Neither as the impetus for victims rights generally is handled at the state level. Although Obma has shown a propensity to protect black victims ( Prof Gates, Tray Martin new black pahthers)

[Guest]

You keep refering to Travon Martin as a murder victim. Got proof?

I would think that Obama would be much more visable on victims rights, seeing that his existance politically is dependent on there being a lot of victims to pander to.

[Guest]

You keep refering to Travon Martin as a murder victim. Got proof?

I would think that Obama would be much more visable on victims rights, seeing that his existance politically is dependent on there being a lot of victims to pander to.

He was shot. He died. Makes him the victim unless George Zimmerman can show that he acted in self-defense.

I have written a lot of politicians about victims' rights since 1991. It has usually been the Republicans who do more than just lip service. That varies a lot though from politician to politician.

I have not written any politicians though about anything since around 2004. I kind of dropped the whole thing after moving to the Villages.

[Guest]

He was shot. He died. Makes him the victim unless George Zimmerman can show that he acted in self-defense.

I have written a lot of politicians about victims' rights since 1991. It has usually been the Republicans who do more than just lip service. That varies a lot though from politician to politician.

I have not written any politicians though about anything since around 2004. I kind of dropped the whole thing after moving to the Villages.

Did you write or get enraged when the 6 black fellows chased a young white boy to his front porch as he came home from school and lit him on fire on his own front porch in Kansas City about the same time as the tragedy in Orlando ?

Guess Al was busy and could not supply the rage and the stage !!!

If you need more examples to write on, I can find them for you

[Guest]

He was shot. He died. Makes him the victim unless George Zimmerman can show that he acted in self-defense.

I have written a lot of politicians about victims' rights since 1991. It has usually been the Republicans who do more than just lip service. That varies a lot though from politician to politician.

I have not written any politicians though about anything since around 2004. I kind of dropped the whole thing after moving to the Villages.

Your mistake, or maybe it's actually your bias, is shown in your classification of Martin as a victim of murder. If you would just refer to his death with the appropriate term of "homicide", you wouldn't catch so much grief.

By the way, you are really close to asserting that Zimmerman has to be proven innocent instead of the state having to prove him guilty of wrongful death in any verdict. That's not the way the justice system is supposed to work.

Or do you care?

[Guest]

Your mistake, or maybe it's actually your bias, is shown in your classification of Martin as a victim of murder. If you would just refer to his death with the appropriate term of "homicide", you wouldn't catch so much grief.

By the way, you are really close to asserting that Zimmerman has to be proven innocent instead of the state having to prove him guilty of wrongful death in any verdict. That's not the way the justice system is supposed to work.

Or do you care?

I have written again and again on TOTV to wait and see what the verdict is if this matter goes to trial. In the ordinary use of language, Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman. Which makes Trayvon Martin the victim of a gunshot wound from which he died.

Trayvon Martin funeral director: no signs of fight | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-funeral-director-no-signs-fight/)

[Guest]

He was shot. He died. Makes him the victim unless George Zimmerman can show that he acted in self-defense.

I have written a lot of politicians about victims' rights since 1991. It has usually been the Republicans who do more than just lip service. That varies a lot though from politician to politician.

I have not written any politicians though about anything since around 2004. I kind of dropped the whole thing after moving to the Villages.

I am a believer and victims rights but I think that we must be very careful in thinking that only some groups can be victims.

[Guest]

Romney would be the one of the two who would stand up for a victim of any race, creed, or color.

Obama has shown he couldn't care less about us whities, thru his A.G. doing nothing about the new black panther thugs at the Phila. polling place, thumping their billy clubs in hand at white voters, and thru his ENABLING of the destruction of Lucia Whalen who called the police rightfully because of a suspected intruder at Obama's professor buddy's home:

911 Caller Lucia Whalen: 'I Was The Target Of Scorn And Ridicule' - YouTube

[Guest]

And some groups can never be victims. :rant-rave:

[Guest]

And some groups can never be victims. :rant-rave:

Do you mean masochists?

[Guest]

there has been a big assumption put forth...Martin was shot and died, hence he is the victim.

The victim is not necessarily the one shot...it is your presumption/bias/belief.

Anyway the thread is not SUPPOSED to be about who anybody thinks the victim is in any specific case. It is about who would do a better representation of the victim...Romney or Obama.

Based on Obama's selective response to date, high profile, racial based, with a perceived gain for him out come, cases I would not choose him. He is what he is and he has demonstrated where his interests lie...vote accumulation opportunity.

I do not know enough about Romney, except to offer an opinion based on his behavior about people in general as we are able to observe in the different sources of information available about the man. My opinion is he is less dependent upon the need to make a mark or impression race wise. In that assumption alone I would choose Romney over Obama. As we learn more about Romney in the days ahead we will get a better perspective on our "guess" about his direction on "victims".

I do not need to know any more about Obama's perspective....it is the perspective that his interests are personal and racial based.

btk

[Guest]

Do you mean masochists?

No......no one comes out and says it but the implications are not so subtle.....:rant-rave:

[Guest]

No......no one comes out and says it but the implications are not so subtle.....:rant-rave:

A little too vague......ya lost me.

[Guest]

I have written again and again on TOTV to wait and see what the verdict is if this matter goes to trial. In the ordinary use of language, Trayvon Martin was shot by George Zimmerman. Which makes Trayvon Martin the victim of a gunshot wound from which he died.

Trayvon Martin funeral director: no signs of fight | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-funeral-director-no-signs-fight/)

Yes, but if it is determined that Martin forced the escalation of the shooting, then Zimmerman is a victim of shooting an aggressive person in self defense. Lets wait for the outcome.

[Guest]

there has been a big assumption put forth...Martin was shot and died, hence he is the victim.

The victim is not necessarily the one shot...it is your presumption/bias/belief.

Anyway the thread is not SUPPOSED to be about who anybody thinks the victim is in any specific case. It is about who would do a better representation of the victim...Romney or Obama.

Based on Obama's selective response to date, high profile, racial based, with a perceived gain for him out come, cases I would not choose him. He is what he is and he has demonstrated where his interests lie...vote accumulation opportunity.

I do not know enough about Romney, except to offer an opinion based on his behavior about people in general as we are able to observe in the different sources of information available about the man. My opinion is he is less dependent upon the need to make a mark or impression race wise. In that assumption alone I would choose Romney over Obama. As we learn more about Romney in the days ahead we will get a better perspective on our "guess" about his direction on "victims".

I do not need to know any more about Obama's perspective....it is the perspective that his interests are personal and racial based.

btk

In order to ask which candidate would be a better advocate for the victim, you first have to determine who is the victim. Is the victim the dead person or the person who shot him? Was the killing justified and does that make the killer the victim - or is the victim still the dead person? I say "killer" merely because you have the "killer" and the "killed".

As my friend, Rubicon, says - I opine, you decide.

[Guest]

In order to ask which candidate would be a better advocate for the victim, you first have to determine who is the victim. Is the victim the dead person or the person who shot him? Was the killing justified and does that make the killer the victim - or is the victim still the dead person? I say "killer" merely because you have the "killer" and the "killed".

As my friend, Rubicon, says - I opine, you decide.

In most cases, it seems very easy to determine just who the victim was in some crime. I have never got the impression that there are many innocent people in jail. There are some but it is probably less than 2% or so of those incarcerated. Those statistics though are very unreliable-- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/us/25bar.html?_r=1 Innocence Blog: How Many Innocent People are in Prison? (http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/How_Many_Innocent_People_are_in_Prison.php)

Some poorly written laws on victims' rights also may leave out vast groups of people because of how the law was written or because of some kind of political pressures put on the lawmakers.

The Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman case is a tragedy for both families involved no matter what happens in the future. A young man is dead and what looks like a good man's reputation is ruined. I do hope that the facts in the Zimmerman case come out though. Seems like both sides are rightfully sitting on the evidence because of just how emotional both sides have become in this. Trayvon Martin | Judge wants info about Zimmerman's Pay Pal accounts - OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/) George Zimmerman: Zimmerman evidence to be released soon. What will it show? - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-28/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-trayvon-20120428_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-police-headquarters) George Zimmerman Trayvon Martin discovery - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-29/news/os-george-zimmerman-discovery-20120429_1_delay-request-attorney-plans-legal-team)

[Guest]

Your mistake, or maybe it's actually your bias, is shown in your classification of Martin as a victim of murder. If you would just refer to his death with the appropriate term of "homicide", you wouldn't catch so much grief.

By the way, you are really close to asserting that Zimmerman has to be proven innocent instead of the state having to prove him guilty of wrongful death in any verdict. That's not the way the justice system is supposed to work.

Or do you care?

Bravo! This is an excellent response. Lots more insightful than your highly biased political viewpoints. This is actually a compliment so please don't look for hidden meaning.

[Guest]

You keep refering to Travon Martin as a murder victim. Got proof?

I would think that Obama would be much more visable on victims rights, seeing that his existance politically is dependent on there being a lot of victims to pander to.

Just for the record i am not call Tray Gates or new black panthers victims. I am saying Obama is calling them victims

[Guest]

Bravo! This is an excellent response. Lots more insightful than your highly biased political viewpoints. This is actually a compliment so please don't look for hidden meaning.

Not a good response though from RichieLion when reading my first post.

"Just who was the victim in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman matter though?

It seems to depend on one's views about self-defense, racism, and a number of other factors."

The above quote was from my first post in this thread where I state clearly that it is not clear who was the victim in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman fight because the facts have not come out as yet.

I also mentioned that I had a close connection to a murder victim-- through her mother my then high school English teacher in Reno, Nevada--whose murderers were not caught until three years later (in 1979). That caused a lot of speculation and other such manuevers on the part of the police and the media. The murder was on my birthday of 2-24 in 1976.