IRS resets bond challenge.

[graciegirl]

Copied from The Daily Sun 5/18/2012
STAFF REPORT

The Villages- Supervisors with the Village Center Development District were advised Thursday morning that the Internal Revenue Service is resetting its challenge into whether the District was entitled to tax exempt status on bonds issued from 1993 to 2004.

District Manager Janet Tutt advised that IRS officials filed a request for new information, which essentially restarts the IRS query, and Tutt said they could request even more information later, which would force the process to be repeated again.

"It's interesting they keep requesting information, some of which is duplication," Archie Lowry, the boards attorney said to supervisors.

Tutt said one positive is that IRS agents acknowledged for the first time in four years of investigations that amenity fee revenue stream is a valid aquired asset; however, there are still disputes.

"They (IRS) continue to double-count expenditures,and single count revenues," Tutt told supervisors.

District staff will revise its previous analysis and resubmit it to the IRS.

(The above copied from Friday's Daily Sun for those off campus. GG)

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Thanks for your post, Gracie!

Bill :)

[Bogie Shooter]

An update was posted on the VCDD site on 5/17. I think new information is at the end of the posting.
http://www.districtgov.org/images/IRSupdates/IRS%20Update%20-%205-17-12.pdf

[rp001]

Can someone who has studied this issue break it down as to what the possible consequences are to individual homeowners pls...I am new and not Privy to this situation....

[aljetmet]

Can someone who has studied this issue break it down as to what the possible consequences are to individual homeowners pls...I am new and not Privy to this situation....


:welcome:
If you search the forum you will find 100s of posts and 100s of opinions.

After reviewing most I still bought a lot...

[Posh 08]

:welcome:
If you search the forum you will find 100s of posts and 100s of opinions.

After reviewing most I still bought a lot...

Couldn't find a LIKE button. Anyway LIKE.

[Bogie Shooter]

Can someone who has studied this issue break it down as to what the possible consequences are to individual homeowners pls...I am new and not Privy to this situation....

The POA web site has some easy to understand explanations as published in their newsletter.
Property Owners, Association of Florida (http://www.poa4us.org/)

[rp001]

Thanks, I read the info and still see their is NO actual stated impact of a negative ruling against vcdd..There is vague reference that "we may not be able to provide amenities.....", with nothing being very specific...Seems the crux of the issue is the developer's relationship with vcdd..? I guess this will be just another governmental way to line a lot of attorney's pockets...I know this is oversimplified...And is extremely complex in nature...

[Advogado]

Thanks, I read the info and still see their is NO actual stated impact of a negative ruling against vcdd..There is vague reference that "we may not be able to provide amenities.....", with nothing being very specific...Seems the crux of the issue is the developer's relationship with vcdd..? I guess this will be just another governmental way to line a lot of attorney's pockets...I know this is oversimplified...And is extremely complex in nature...
Although there have been subsequent developments, the following article, which examines the potential impact on residents, remains valid today:
http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin200908.pdf

:posting:

[BlueHeronFan]

Sounds like Government IRS incompetance if they keep asking for the same thing over and over, even after being provided the requested info.

Hmmmm and 16,000 more of these IRS idiots just to deal with Obamacare.

Lord help us!

[rubicon]

Does a reset mean that the IRS is going to take a different approach to gaining discovery? It is not a good sign that they continue with this investigation

[rp001]

I don't get it..the link to the newsletter says NOTHING...It's jjust a discussion about what is going on...It seems everyone involved has failed to identify the impact..Only veiled threats..Very suspicious to me...then I don't trust any government,whether it is local or National...

[janmcn]

Does a reset mean that the IRS is going to take a different approach to gaining discovery? It is not a good sign that they continue with this investigation

I don't get it..the link to the newsletter says NOTHING...It's jjust a discussion about what is going on...It seems everyone involved has failed to identify the impact..Only veiled threats..Very suspicious to me...then I don't trust any government,whether it is local or National...

It is doubtful that the IRS is going to walk away and leave hundreds of millions of dollars on the table.

Nobody trusts the government. The government is incompetent.

It is the developer that is accused of wrongdoing, not the government.

[Posh 08]

It is doubtful that the IRS is going to walk away and leave hundreds of millions of dollars on the table.

Nobody trusts the government. The government is incompetent.

It is the developer that is accused of wrongdoing, not the government.

This will probably be moved to political but hey, the IRS and the government leaves money on the table every day.

IRS Pays Refunds to Dead People | Articles | The Vile Plutocrat (http://thevileplutocrat.com/bile/articles/irs-pays-refunds-to-dead-people/)

Issues: The IRS Pays Illegal Aliens $1,000 Per Child! | OFIR news illegal aliens crime immigrants America (http://www.oregonir.org/issues/irs-pays-illegal-aliens-1000-child)

[Pturner]

I don't get it..the link to the newsletter says NOTHING...It's jjust a discussion about what is going on...It seems everyone involved has failed to identify the impact..Only veiled threats..Very suspicious to me...then I don't trust any government,whether it is local or National...

Hi rp,
I think a clear-cut answer has not been provided because one does not exist. It would be similar to asking the impacts of a proposed bill or upcoming Supreme Court ruling, before the bill or ruling is written. Answers are necessarily speculative.

[Advogado]

Hi rp,
I think a clear-cut answer has not been provided because one does not exist. It would be similar to asking the impacts of a proposed bill or upcoming Supreme Court ruling, before the bill or ruling is written. Answers are necessarily speculative.
Exactly, but in a nutshell, as explained in the POA article that I cited above, the following is the RISK to Villagers: If an IRS victory imposes huge costs on the Center Districts, the Center Districts. (which own the amenity facilities not still owned by the Developer) will not have sufficient funds to continue to provide the amenities promised us by the Developer.

[graciegirl]

Exactly, but in a nutshell, as explained in the POA article that I cited above, the following is the RISK to Villagers: If an IRS victory imposes huge costs on the Center Districts, the Center Districts. (which own the amenity facilities not still owned by the Developer) will not have sufficient funds to continue to provide the amenities promised us by the Developer.

To be fair, Counselor, the will SHOULD be changed to a WOULD.

And please don't forget the IF, those who read the above.

[The Shadow]

The current IRS issue stared 3 years ago and I think one started earlier than that. What puzzles me is the IRS rules/laws are a given The Village criteria has not changed and 2+2 is still 4, I see nothing that looks like a shell game, the facts being the facts the answer I would think would be a given.

But what do I know, I am the one that thinks a marriage is a couple consisting of a man and a woman.

[Advogado]

The current IRS issue stared 3 years ago and I think one started earlier than that. What puzzles me is the IRS rules/laws are a given The Village criteria has not changed and 2+2 is still 4, I see nothing that looks like a shell game, the facts being the facts the answer I would think would be a given.

But what do I know, I am the one that thinks a marriage is a couple consisting of a man and a woman.

Because of the complexity of the situation, I don't think that you can get much more specific at this point. You can calculate the potential cost to the Center Districts if you want, but you would have to make assumptions regarding the amount of existing bonds that would have to be refinanced with taxable bonds, interest rates at the time of refinancing, the credit rating given to taxable bonds then issued (which would be tainted by the circumstances underlying their issuance), etc. If you want to do the calculations, let us know what assumptions you make and what the resulting cost is, but the cost will be a big.

The one negative impact on us that is certain is that our amenity fees are, in effect, now paying for the Center District's attorney to defend transactions that were structured to benefit the Developer.

I won't get into the marriage issue.