Hot water on demand units

[CarGuys]

Has anyone in TV installed a Hot water recirculate devise that stops the wasted gallons of cold water down the drain waiting for the hot to arrive.

Here in NY no big deal. In my Village home all I hear is quarters running down the drain for the VCDD sewer tax wasted fresh water and hot water electric.

Also timers for electric water heater on or off?

Herv

[Shimpy]

Has anyone in TV installed a Hot water recirculate devise that stops the wasted gallons of cold water down the drain waiting for the hot to arrive.

Here in NY no big deal. In my Village home all I hear is quarters running down the drain for the VCDD sewer tax wasted fresh water and hot water electric.

Also timers for electric water heater on or off?

Herv

I've thought about installing one of those instant hot water heaters under the sink since my kitchen takes enough water running waiting for hot water to fill a bath tub. Even then it really isn't that hot compared to the sink in my garage near the water heater. I hope someone can give us some good inflo.

[LittleDog]

I had a unit like that installed over the hot water heater. There was also a device put under the sink in the master bath. You can set a timer to when you want the hot water recirculated. It was installed by Solar Lights and More of Ocala. Their number is 1-800-347-9664.

John

[rjm1cc]

Has anyone in TV installed a Hot water recirculate devise that stops the wasted gallons of cold water down the drain waiting for the hot to arrive.

Here in NY no big deal. In my Village home all I hear is quarters running down the drain for the VCDD sewer tax wasted fresh water and hot water electric.

Also timers for electric water heater on or off?

Herv

There are systems that keep your water circulating. Do a web search. Here is an example. I am not recommending, just trying to give you a possible solution to research that you may not have known about.

Instant Hot Water Recirculating System - New Products - Watts (http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/IHWRS.asp)

[logdog]

We had one installed a couple of years ago with a timer. Works great. See:
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/contractors-services-91/instant-hot-water-39136/#post359129

[applesoffh]

We had to have a hot water recirculating pump installed as we had no hot water in the master bath. A timer was installed, also. Works like a charm, and was better than some of the suggestions we received, like raising the temperature of the hot water at the water heater. We had it done by the plumber who did the original plumbing work on the house...Mike Scott Plumbing.

[rhood]

If you are handy, the units are available at Home Depot and Lowes.

[Sable99]

I just closed on my house and the one thing I regret not doing is putting in an instant hot water faucet. We have one here in Michigan and Mom loves it!!! I sure hate to put it in now as they would have to cut through the granite. Yikes!

[jimbo2012]

I think you can do a splice into the existing hot water line leading upto the existing faucet.

HOwever, to have another hole drilled is no big deal either.

[CTgolfer]

Our neighbor's hot water tank broke and needed to be replaced. He looked into replacing it with the instant hot water instead. He indicated the cost to replace the traditional hot water tank was considerably cheaper and it would take a long time before he would see the break even cost.

[wendyquat]

Our neighbor's hot water tank broke and needed to be replaced. He looked into replacing it with the instant hot water instead. He indicated the cost to replace the traditional hot water tank was considerably cheaper and it would take a long time before he would see the break even cost.

The initial cost is more but ours (gas) paid for itself in less than two years. Sure was nice having all that hot water and never running out!

[bonrich]

Just be aware of the maintenance involved if you are experiencing hard water. Clogs up the heat tubes. Our plumber here up North doesn't recommend them, also takes a bit of time if more than one wants to shower back to back and the demand increases.

[jimbo2012]

As far as never running out that basic hot water tank can be upgraded by adding a super stor tank.

I have one in NY for 20 years never ran out.

[CarGuys]

Jimbo- Were getting off track here.

Not running out of hot water, getting the hot water to the shower quicker so one does not wait 45 seconds + for hot water. That is such a waste of fresh water.

In you garage you have hot instantly. As you progress to the master Bath is is like a Heines Ketchup Commerical. Anticipation!

I am not installing a instant hot water heater. They do NOT work well with electric if I had Gas then yes.

I do not have to worry about scale as I have a total whole home water system.

I was wondering about the water heater pumps and bypass systems you see at lowes or home depot. I have read some don't work very well as the valves fail? Was looking for information from those that have them in service.

[jimbo2012]

Herv, ok to refocus found this

How Much Energy is Wasted?

The systems vary in how much energy is wasted. The ones that run a pump 24/7 obviously waste more heat and electricity. The ones that work off a timer or thermostat would save some of this waste, but not nearly all of it.

The "demand" systems would be much more efficient, since they only circulate water when its actually needed.

I estimated the energy waste for recirculation by measuring the amount of energy my gas water heater uses with and without the recirculation loop enabled. With the recirculation system on, the gas burner comes on every 1.25 hours for 5.1 minutes. With the recirculation system off, the burner comes on every 5 hours for 5.1 minutes. All of these measurements were taken over the night period when no hot water was being used. If you go through the math on this, it comes out to 200 gallons of extra propane wasted per year to support the recirculation system. Or about $400yr.

I know we don't use propane but elec cost must be close.

Add the cost of the install ( I saw $700) and possible failure of valves etc.

Now how much a gallon is water at TV?

A shower uses 7 GPM, with a water saver head you can bring that to about 2.5 GPM.

How many minutes does the shower take to get hot?

Or how many quarters?


.

[graciegirl]

I'll stay with what we've got.

Energy is energy is energy.

[collie1228]

I brush my teeth using cold water from the hot water tap. After 30-45 seconds, I'm done brushing and the hot water has arrived. And it didn't cost me anything.

[Carla B]

In our house we run 3 gals. of water before the water gets hot in the shower. I know this because for a time we used to capture it and pour it on the parched lawn. But it was too hard to do, so now it just goes down the drain.

[CarGuys]

So at the min. 6 gallons a day X 7 days a week x 4 weeks a month x 12 months per year and aprox 2016 Gallons a year go down the drain.

What does this cost for fresh water billing including the sewer tax rate?

A circulation pump cost $350 installed. And 5 cents every hour it has to run. But is only runs a couple hours per day.

Bill where are you!:popcorn::popcorn:

From the Watts web site
An average home has 125 feet of 3/4" pipe. 125 feet of 3/4" pipe holds 3.14 gallons of
water. If hot water is used 10 times per day, 31 gallons of water is wasted running the faucets/
shower to get hot water. In a year, this equals to 11,461 gallons of water. 25.2 million homes
waste approximately 300 billion gallons of water annually.

I would not give a darn if this was my present home on a well with septic. But were in Florida and charged for water to come out of the tap and then we get charged again to watch it go down the drain. Thats like filling you cars fuel tank watching three gallons run on the ground before the tank starts to accepts the fuel. Oh well that $12 gone never used wasted. energy is energy is energy. Not buying that ?

[jimbo2012]

Looking at this calculation (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/478569-post10.html)

your wasted water in one year of 2016 gallons will cost $12 in year or a buck a month.

Do you get the same result?

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Herv, I've stayed out of the thread as you initially were looking for people who had a hot water recirculator installed. We almost did it when our current was built but opted out - had to draw the "financial line" on a few thing...... :)

My $.0295 worth: You can run the math any one of a number of ways to determine if it's a financially feasible thing to do. But I think what it'll really come down to is whether or not you want the convenience of having hot water all ready to go in the far reaches of your home.

Various ways to initiate the start up of the pump as some have already mentioned. I've also heard of people building a foot switch into the toe board of a cabinet - just tap it with your foot to fire up the pump.

Also keep in mind that if you're wanting cold water available towards the end of the pump cycle, say if you're wanting to brush your teeth before hopping into the shower.......you're going to have the reverse issue! The hot water side pumps into the cold water line - once the hot water gets to the pump, you'll have both lines being hot til you run the cold water for a while.

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable! :D

Bill :)

[bonrich]

One more thought here about how long it would take to payback the investment. Measure in if you are a full time resident or a part timer. That in itself would be the determinate factor, at least for me.

[getdul981]

Various ways to initiate the start up of the pump as some have already mentioned. I've also heard of people building a foot switch into the toe board of a cabinet - just tap it with your foot to fire up the pump.

Also keep in mind that if you're wanting cold water available towards the end of the pump cycle, say if you're wanting to brush your teeth before hopping into the shower.......you're going to have the reverse issue! The hot water side pumps into the cold water line - once the hot water gets to the pump, you'll have both lines being hot til you run the cold water for a while. Bill :)

We're seriously considering this device. Had not heard of the switch to turn on the pump immediately prior to needing hot water. That sounds like a great idea, but seems like it would take some extensive electrical work.

We were also told that the cross-over pipe at the distant faucet has a valve inside to stop the flow once the hot water reaches it. The pump at the tank does not create any pressure or else there must be a sensor to detect when the valve at the faucet closes.

[jimbo2012]

I brush my teeth using cold water from the hot water tap. After 30-45 seconds, I'm done brushing and the hot water has arrived. And it didn't cost me anything.

For the few pennies a day not sure I want the water from a hot water tank ingested, it has metals, bacteria and other contaminants, that can't grow in cold water.

In fact you're supposed to run water for 60 seconds to flush most contaminates from water standing in the pipes.

Also drain the hot water tank once a year to flush out rust and scale that accumulates in the bottom, when you turn on the faucet you stir up the bottom and that crap comes out the faucet.

[getdul981]

For the few pennies a day not sure I want the water from a hot water tank ingested, it has metals, bacteria and other contaminants, that can't grow in cold water.

And just where do you suppose all those things come from? Could it be from the cold water going into the tank???

[jimbo2012]

And just where do you suppose all those things come from? Could it be from the cold water going into the tank???

Not really, it comes primarily from the heating element itself and sacrificial anode, ever look inside an old one? they get pretty nasty.

That's why they should be turned off drained fill, drain again, once a year.
Try it you can catch the water coming out and look at the junk in bucket.

This is something any home owner can do no plumber needed

This Old House (http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20047191,00.html) video

Hot water can grow bacteria.

The source cold water is tested I assume daily

[Bill-n-Brillo]

We're seriously considering this device. Had not heard of the switch to turn on the pump immediately prior to needing hot water. That sounds like a great idea, but seems like it would take some extensive electrical work. .......

Greg, I have zero experience with the following product......but it does seem to have a very simple interface to allow manual activation by an external switch of your choosing:

Hot Water Circulator (http://www.redytemp.com/view-hot-water-circulator.php)

Bill :)

[aljetmet]

I found this that does not use electric:

Hot Water Lobster Instant Hot Water Valve Home Page (http://www.hotwaterlobster.com/?gclid=CMHF5YfdlrACFSdjTAod5Wuw7w)

Now I'm building a new house within a year. :MOJE_whot:

The problem with all recirculating solutions is that hot water enters your cold water supply to bring the hot water not used back to the hot water heater.

Therefore you have hot hot water but lukewarm cold water. Not so pleasant.

I read about a solution somewhere as I have been researching this.

You add another line from the fixture you want instant hot water water back to your hot water heater. So instead of connecting to the cold water supply you connect to this third dummy line.

Just wonder what TV would charge to add the third line?

I also found an electric pump that cost $179 to do this. I forgot to book mark so I need to find it again.

With this pump you need an outlet under your sink. It can be automated as well for under $30.

Picture this, you wake up, press the remote by the side of your bed and in about a minute or so you have hot water. If you have the third line you have no waste and cold water.

[CarGuys]

Cool! Well I mean its HOT! Keep us posted please.

I wonder why I have never had this probelm in any of our northern homes?

Seems like a Southern Home Build Thing?

[CarGuys]

Greg, I have zero experience with the following product......but it does seem to have a very simple interface to allow manual activation by an external switch of your choosing:

Hot Water Circulator (http://www.redytemp.com/view-hot-water-circulator.php)

Bill :)

Looks like waste the water or its easier to sell the home and return to NY. As per a previous post maybe te flow restrictor in the shower head is the main problem? Never had one of those before.

[aljetmet]

Cool! Well I mean its HOT! Keep us posted please.

I wonder why I have never had this probelm in any of our northern homes?

Seems like a Southern Home Build Thing?

I will.

When we were on our LSV, I took notice because this issue has come up before on TOTV.

Anyway it took about 3 minutes for hot water to reach the master bath.
I would say the MB was about 40 -50 feet from the hot water heater....

[aljetmet]

Here is the unit I found

Water Heaters and Tankless Water Heaters Work Better With a CP6000 Hot Water Demand System (http://www.chilipepperapp.com/howit.htm)

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Here is the unit I found

Water Heaters and Tankless Water Heaters Work Better With a CP6000 Hot Water Demand System (http://www.chilipepperapp.com/howit.htm)

It'll be interesting to see if TV will install the extra/return pipe back to the hot water heater for you........and at what cost! That could make or break the deal for that type of system.

If you opt for a system without the separate return line, you might want to take a look at the one from Grundfos, a manufacturer with a very broad-based business in the area of "moving water" - check their corp web site:

Grundfos USA* (http://us.grundfos.com/)


Here's the product description for their recirculation system:

Comfort System*| Grundfos (http://us.grundfos.com/products/find-product/comfort-pumps-up-10.html)


Installation instructions:

http://us.grundfos.com/products/find-product/comfort-pumps-up-10/_jcr_content/tabbedpanel/brochures/par2/downloads/download_1/file/file.res/L-UP-TL-043.pdf


Available via Amazon:

Amazon.com: Grundfos 595916 1/25 Horsepower Comfort Series Recirculator Pump: Home Improvement


Somewhat limited operational control as it comes from the factory, though - timer only. That set up could be modified for other means of control if you'd want to mess with it. But it is a bit unique in that the pump is installed at the hot water tank - no need to fool around with any electrical work underneath a sink. And the pump reads as though it's built like a tank!

With a system like the Grundfos noted above, simply adding additional valves at various sinks, etc. through the house (that might be on a separate branch line far away from the tank or the installed valve) will enable the 'instant' hot water to get to them as well - no need for additional pumps.

Just something else to think about...... :D

Bill :)

[CarGuys]

Here is the unit I found

Water Heaters and Tankless Water Heaters Work Better With a CP6000 Hot Water Demand System (http://www.chilipepperapp.com/howit.htm)

This system look like the easiest to install.

[jimbo2012]

Still fail to see the ROI on this install unless you're just looking to have gadgets.

Also how is this flushing the initial contaminates out of the hot water lines?

For 3 pennies a day to run water till hot is hard to beat with the added benefit of flushing the line.:shrug:

Here's a question, has anyone requested a water test result from the local water company?:read:

They have to supply it.

I saw the ours here in NY, went to HD and bought a whole house filter system.

Now as far a gadgets go I love them, I intend to put up a solar hot water system, it will cost more than I can save, but you know boys & toys. :MOJE_whot:


.

[aljetmet]

[QUOTE=Bill-n-Brillo;496449]It'll be interesting to see if TV will install the extra/return pipe back to the hot water heater for you........and at what cost! That could make or break the deal for that type of system.

If you opt for a system without the separate return line, you might want to take a look at the one from Grundfos, a manufacturer with a very broad-based business in the area of "moving water" - check their corp web site:

I've seen this one. Seems to be a much harder install and not in love with the timer idea... We'll see.