Deadly Intersection

[TomW]

The St. Charles intersection with Tamarind Grove and Southern Star Way needs immediate attention. I believe someone counted 5 major accidents within at 10 month period with one fatality. They are still building more homes in the area so that intersection will see continued high use. I think the villa wall on the Tamarind Grove side contribute to the problem but I'm not a traffic engineer so that is only an observation. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can look at that intersection and see that it is a problem. The intersection is poorly designed as is the cart crossing on Colony Blvd. and the bottleneck that has been created at Bailey Trail and Buena Vista gate. I assume this all falls under the jurisdiction of county government but someone needs to act before others are injured or worse.

[Bogie Shooter]

The St. Charles intersection with Tamarind Grove and Southern Star Way needs immediate attention. I believe someone counted 5 major accidents within at 10 month period with one fatality. They are still building more homes in the area so that intersection will see continued high use. I think the villa wall on the Tamarind Grove side contribute to the problem but I'm not a traffic engineer so that is only an observation. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can look at that intersection and see that it is a problem. The intersection is poorly designed as is the cart crossing on Colony Blvd. and the bottleneck that has been created at Bailey Trail and Buena Vista gate. I assume this all falls under the jurisdiction of county government but someone needs to act before others are injured or worse.

Go to this site to see a list of Sumter County Commissioners, with their bio's and telephone numbers. You can act!
Sumter County, FL - Official Website - About the Commissioners (http://sumtercountyfl.gov/index.aspx?nid=67)

[TomW]

Thanks Bogie. I sent an Email to Commissioner Mack expressing my concerns. Perhaps others may wish to do so as well.

[Bogie Shooter]

Thanks Bogie. It is for sure that this is under the jurisdiction of Sumter County?

A phone call would clarify that issue.

[Tom Hannon]

About five months ago I was on Tamarind Groove heading towards St. Charles. I blew the stop sign and went thru the intersection and onto Southern Star. Never saw the stop sign and if traffic was coming I would have been history. My fault yes, but as Tom W said, I think the villa wall has a lot to do with it. I also know of another neighbor who almost got killed at the same intersection and his incident was never reported. A Red light is needed as we have on Canal and Bailly Trail.

[Bogie Shooter]

Does the villa wall block the view of he stop sign?

[FMF Doc]

The St. Charles intersection with Tamarind Grove and Southern Star Way needs immediate attention. I believe someone counted 5 major accidents within at 10 month period with one fatality. They are still building more homes in the area so that intersection will see continued high use. I think the villa wall on the Tamarind Grove side contribute to the problem but I'm not a traffic engineer so that is only an observation. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can look at that intersection and see that it is a problem. The intersection is poorly designed as is the cart crossing on Colony Blvd. and the bottleneck that has been created at Bailey Trail and Buena Vista gate. I assume this all falls under the jurisdiction of county government but someone needs to act before others are injured or worse.

I know of four accidents. Whatever happened there this morning has not been verified, all we know is a heolcopter landed in that vicinity.

Every accident has been caused by people either not stopping at the stop signs already in place or stopping and not paying attention to what traffic is approaching.

I don't see how any more stop signs, traffic lights or blinking lights is going to fix stupid or I don't give a crap.

[Bogie Shooter]

I know of four accidents. Whatever happened there this morning has not been verified, all we know is a heolcopter landed in that vicinity.

Every accident has been caused by people either not stopping at the stop signs already in place or stopping and not paying attention to what traffic is approaching.

I don't see how any more stop signs, traffic lights or blinking lights is going to fix stupid or I don't give a crap.

:agree:

[Tom Hannon]

Part of the problem is coming down Tamarind Groove toward St. Charles because of the villa wall, the driver can't see the upcoming intersection of the left side.

[FMF Doc]

Part of the problem is coming down Tamarind Groove toward St. Charles because of the villa wall, the driver can't see the upcoming intersection of the left side.

I think what you are saying Tom is even when stopped the visibility to the left from Tamarind Grove Run is limited?

Perhaps we would have more luck in having signs warning of a dangerous intersection or limited visibility ahead placed both ways on St. Charles and Tamaring Grove and Southern star.

[BarryRX]

About five months ago I was on Tamarind Groove heading towards St. Charles. I blew the stop sign and went thru the intersection and onto Southern Star. Never saw the stop sign and if traffic was coming I would have been history. My fault yes, but as Tom W said, I think the villa wall has a lot to do with it. I also know of another neighbor who almost got killed at the same intersection and his incident was never reported. A Red light is needed as we have on Canal and Bailly Trail.
There is obviously a "design" flaw at the intersection of St. Charles and Tamarind (Southern Star). Where I lived in NW Ohio, we of course had many rural roads where intersections only had stop signs. At one particularly dangerous intersection in Ohio, they put blinking red lights around the border of the stop sign. The lights were powered by a small solar panel. There has not been another accident at that intersection since they modified the stop sign. Simple and very inexpensive solution that saved lives.

[mrsanborn]

There is obviously a "design" flaw at the intersection of St. Charles and Tamarind (Southern Star).

The major design flaw is the person behind the wheel. Yes, this intersection is busy during the day. One option to a signal would be to squeeze the cart lanes 50 to 75 feet into the vehicle lanes prior to the intersection as is done on the major signaled intersections such as Bailey and St Charles. I would hate to think that might slow traffic down though. How that courtyard wall could be a contributing cause to "blow" a stop sign, well, the answer is above my prior pay grade.

[PaPaLarry]

The major design flaw is the person behind the wheel. Yes, this intersection is busy during the day. One option to a signal would be to squeeze the cart lanes 50 to 75 feet into the vehicle lanes prior to the intersection as is done on the major signaled intersections such as Bailey and St Charles. I would hate to think that might slow traffic down though. How that courtyard wall could be a contributing cause to "blow" a stop sign, well, the answer is above my prior pay grade.
I agree!!!!!!!

[swimdawg]

The major design flaw is the person behind the wheel. Yes, this intersection is busy during the day. One option to a signal would be to squeeze the cart lanes 50 to 75 feet into the vehicle lanes prior to the intersection as is done on the major signaled intersections such as Bailey and St Charles. I would hate to think that might slow traffic down though. How that courtyard wall could be a contributing cause to "blow" a stop sign, well, the answer is above my prior pay grade.

Leave it to a fellow "Wheatfielder" to tell it like it is! :BigApplause:

[looneycat]

I observe stop signs, and you know what I hear as a result? the squeal of tires as the car behind me attempts to stop, I guess he thought I like to risk my life too!
:ho:

[BarryRX]

The major design flaw is the person behind the wheel. Yes, this intersection is busy during the day. One option to a signal would be to squeeze the cart lanes 50 to 75 feet into the vehicle lanes prior to the intersection as is done on the major signaled intersections such as Bailey and St Charles. I would hate to think that might slow traffic down though. How that courtyard wall could be a contributing cause to "blow" a stop sign, well, the answer is above my prior pay grade.
There are hundreds of stop sign intersections here in The Villages, but we have had a few major accidents in the last few weeks at this one. Statistically, the odds of that happening are just too high without there being something else contributing to it. Is there something in the design of the road that makes it difficult to see the stop sign? I don't know, but I believe that something else besides bad driving is going on at that intersection. Unlike other busy intersections like the one at St. Charles and Pennecamp, the one at St. Charles and Tamarind Grove is a 4 way intersection. I don't know if this is a contributing cause or not. But in the meantime, people are getting hurt, and often they are the innocent party in the accident.

[FromAus]

This morning about 7:15 my better half and I were on the way to MVP and as we approached St Charles on Tamirand Grove we could see EMS and a fire engine as well as the helicopter. We stopped at the stop sign (a normal occurance). Coming from the other direction on Southern Star a person driving a cart fairly fast in the wrong lane lane passed the fire engine and EMS vehicle. As they approached the stop sign they barely even slowed down, made a right hand turn and never looked in any direction. I don't think anything would have stopped them.

[zonerboy]

Unfortunately the driver with the "major design flaw" is not necessarily the one killed or seriously injured in these crashes. It may be the person just cruising along minding their own business until they get creamed.
Any actions which might help prevent these accidents should be given serious consideration and not blithely dismissed.

[TomW]

We can all agree that bad driving AND something else is going on at that intersection. At this point, I encourage others to write to the commissioners and register your concerns. It would be most effective if residents of the district wrote. I live just outside the district that contains that intersection but frequently travel through that area. The Email address of the commissioners is available at the link contained in the second post of this thread. "The life you save may be your own."

[getdul981]

The major design flaw is the person behind the wheel. Yes, this intersection is busy during the day. One option to a signal would be to squeeze the cart lanes 50 to 75 feet into the vehicle lanes prior to the intersection as is done on the major signaled intersections such as Bailey and St Charles. I would hate to think that might slow traffic down though. How that courtyard wall could be a contributing cause to "blow" a stop sign, well, the answer is above my prior pay grade.

This sounds like a very good and simple solution. That's exactly what has been done on the main road into Sanibel going to Bonifay Country Club from Morse Blvd. All traffic merges into a single lane and, although it may be a bottleneck at times, I'll bet they have fewer accidents there.

[BarryRX]

I actually made the drive in my car on Tamarind today. As I was on Tamarind approaching St. Charles, the stop sign is clearly visible from a long way away. I felt sure that I would notice something that made seeing the stop sign difficult, but I didn't. Where I used to live in NW Ohio, in some rural areas they would sometimes put LED lights around the border of the stop sign. These lights were powered by a small solar panel. It was impossible to miss the stop sign with a bunch of LED lights blinking on it. It was an easy an inexpensive solution to a dangerous problem.

[tracy1j]

I actually made the drive in my car on Tamarind today. As I was on Tamarind approaching St. Charles, the stop sign is clearly visible from a long way away. I felt sure that I would notice something that made seeing the stop sign difficult, but I didn't. Where I used to live in NW Ohio, in some rural areas they would sometimes put LED lights around the border of the stop sign. These lights were powered by a small solar panel. It was impossible to miss the stop sign with a bunch of LED lights blinking on it. It was an easy an inexpensive solution to a dangerous problem.

We have a house near that intersection, but we are not there right now. Could the stop sign on Tamarind be blocked at times by golf carts in the right lane?

[champion6]

We have a house near that intersection, but we are not there right now. Could the stop sign on Tamarind be blocked at times by golf carts in the right lane?I live in Tamarind Grove. Visibility of the stop signs is definitely not a problem.

[PaPaLarry]

We have a house near that intersection, but we are not there right now. Could the stop sign on Tamarind be blocked at times by golf carts in the right lane?
If so, maybe carts shouldn't have a lane there' instead merge with traffic. Better yet, they should merge with traffic, so they don't get hit by car turning. Oh well, what do I know. I'm sure with enough complaints, they will fix the problem. I just want all of us to live Happily ever after!!!!!

[FMF Doc]

If so, maybe carts shouldn't have a lane there' instead merge with traffic. Better yet, they should merge with traffic, so they don't get hit by car turning. Oh well, what do I know. I'm sure with enough complaints, they will fix the problem. I just want all of us to live Happily ever after!!!!!

On Tamarind Grove Run the carts do merge with the car lane. Coming the opposite way on Southern Star they do not and the cart lane runs all the way to St. Charles.

If people would just make a complete stop, look both ways and not enter St. Charles unless absolutely safe to do so we wouldn't have had these incidents happen.

[zonerboy]

The fatal accident at this intersection last July, and the near fatal one last week were both caused by drivers blowing right thru the stop signs as if they weren't even there.
Streets in The Villages were designed to keep traffic moving (slowly, yes, but moving none the less). Thus, if you're lucky and have good timing, you can travel five and a half miles on Buena Vista from 466 to 466A without having to come to a stop once. Similarly, once you enter the gate on the south end of St. Charles you can breeze along past numerous intersections for two and a quarter miles until you reach the traffic light at Baily Trail.
So maybe we get just a little bit complacent and aren't even on the lookout for perfectly visible stop signs. IMHO the idea of placing some sort of flashing light on the stop signs at this intersection is a good one.
Stay alert when you are driving. Stop talking on your d##n cell phones. Lives are at stake!

[janmcn]

Are these drivers residents or non-residents or does anybody know?

[jtdraig]

I agree with you. The crossings you mention have not been well planned for a future that now has most of the area north of 466A developed. Traffic flows, auto and carts, can gridlock at Colony and at Buena Vista/St Charles with long waits to cross which breeds impatience which breeds potential accidents. There is a coziness between developers and Counties on planning, traffic flow, etc. I encountered this when I wrote a letter to the Lake County Manager asking for a review of the 466/rolling acres intersection because of the u-turns to get into the new medical center. The answer was that Developers "approved" the entrances and traffic flows as a part of the process. According to the folk at the landscaping farm there, accidents are very common at that intersection. So, I don't have high hopes. One would think that the colony problem could be resolved by running a cart path in back of the bank into the colony plaza shopping center which would help alleviate backups....but we will have to see.