Article about Billionaire Gary Morse

[jane032657]

Check out todays article about Gary Morse. very interesting story about himself and The Villages

Businessweek - Business News, Stock Market & Financial Advice (http://www.businessweek.com)

[borjo]

I read it but that bond stuff left me dizzy. Never did follow it. Those dollar figures are over my head. I did have to respect him for his ingenuity on how to make a profit yet providing such a wonderful place where so many people find joy.

[missypie]

Really good article, thanks!

[jmac1031]

Bravo to him!!! It takes money to make money along with some good timing..he created a lot of happiness.

[RichieLion]

I couldn't link to the story with the above hyperlink, but found it here.

Hidden Billionaire Morse a Man Behind Curtain at Villages - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-04/hidden-billionaire-morse-a-man-behind-curtain-at-villages)

[graciegirl]

I couldn't link to the story with the above hyperlink, but found it here.

Hidden Billionaire Morse a Man Behind Curtain at Villages - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-04/hidden-billionaire-morse-a-man-behind-curtain-at-villages)

Thanks Jane...and Richie. I couldn't link either but your link works RichieLion.

And Thank YOU Gary Morse if you are reading this. We G's would have never realized this part of our life could be the best... but thanks to your family's hard work, and your ability to see Shangra La in this not very interesting part of Florida, these Golden Years of ours are now set with diamonds. Your careful planning, including putting the right people in the right jobs and expecting nothing but the best from them and your careful risk taking let us share the fruits of your brilliant concept.

Live Long Gary Morse and continue to prosper.

And hugs from

Gracie

[GaryW]

Hidden Billionaire a Man Behind Village Curtain - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-06-04/hidden-billionaire-morse-a-man-behind-curtain-at-villages)

try this one

[redwitch]

Interesting article. Nothing new there, though. There do seem to some underlying hints at greed and ethic questions. I will admit I have never liked the idea that boards in TV were always 100% Morse employees. That just never seemed right to me.

I can't say I'm particularly grateful to the Morses or even Schwartz. I do believe there was great vision and a marvelous ability to turn that vision into reality. It wasn't done for some altruistic dream -- it was done to make money and the Morses have done that quite well. This takes nothing away from TV and our love of TV. To me, loving TV doesn't mean I have to love the Morses or even be particularly thankful to them. I thank them daily every time I open my purse and purchase something. Kudos to the Morses for showing the American dream is still alive and well.

[ssmith]

G Morse is 75. I sure hope he is VERY careful with the future of The Villages. I know the 3 kids have divvied(sp?) up the areas to run but also know that once they get older or health gets in their way then the next generation gets involved etc. Human nature and greed could sure cause some problems. I know this is all speculation but you have to remember I am still the Wannabe and want the place to remain WONDERFUL for many years to come.

Another thought about greed? I can't know the heart of the Morses but perhaps altruistism and greed both play a part. I just say that because I often have mixed intentions in my own heart over matters. Just sayin.

Love the Villages!

[Taltarzac725]

"'He�s kind of like the Wizard of Oz,' Andrew D. Blechman, author of 'Leisureville,' a book on retirement communities, said in a phone interview from his office in Great Barrington, Massachusetts. 'He�s the man behind the curtain. No one really knows him at the Villages.'� from Businessweek article.

I see that Andrew D. Blechman is back from Germany. He had been living there writing on some towns in Germany. Andrew D. Blechman - author of LEISUREVILLE and PIGEONS (http://www.andrewblechman.com/other_writings/eatingGermany.html) Magazine - What’s Eating Germany - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/12/what-8217-s-eating-germany/8305/)

Interesting article. I would be fascinated though with what kind of plans for the future the Morses have once the building is over.

[graciegirl]

Whoa.

I am a capitalist. THERE IS NO SIN in being successful financially. but there is a lot of class envy going on here and you can quickly tell a persons political leanings by how they react to the Morse family.

In building it's fortune the Morse family also changed a seriously poor county in Florida into one of it's best in terms of employment and business. And...if you build a better mouse trap is not the same as robbing from the poor.

Gary Morse could be a really corrupt person, I certainly don't know him personally, few do, but I see hundreds of ways that he could easily have given us less and made more money. The next time you are in any of the rec centers, regional, neighborhood, just lift one of the card chairs in the meeting rooms. Wait, before you do that, look around at the room and see all of the really expensive things hanging on the walls, the too many chandeliers on the ceiling, the unusual and high end floors...than lift the heavy chair that matches the decor of the building. It could have been a folding chair and he could have kept the money.

If you have played golf all of your life as many of us have, than you know the expense that it entails. If you are a golfer you know what is offered here, enough said on that. If you are aware of landscaping and the cost to maintain it, than look at the lush places, blooming waving, and dazzling with their color and the flowers changed out every six weeks.

Gary Morse is a very rich man. I know some rich folks and it seems that they got rich by getting up early and working hard.

[Bonny]

Thank you Gary Morse & the entire Morse family. I love it here. You've done an awesome job !

[Taltarzac725]

Whoa.

I am a capitalist. THERE IS NO SIN in being successful financially. but there is a lot of class envy going on here and you can quickly tell a persons political leanings by how they react to the Morse family.

In building it's fortune the Morse family also changed a seriously poor county in Florida into one of it's best in terms of employment and business. And...if you build a better mouse trap is not the same as robbing from the poor.

Gary Morse could be a really corrupt person, I certainly don't know him personally, few do, but I see hundreds of ways that he could easily have given us less and made more money. The next time you are in any of the rec centers, regional, neighborhood, just lift one of the card chairs in the meeting rooms. Wait, before you do that, look around at the room and see all of the really expensive things hanging on the walls, the too many chandeliers on the ceiling, the unusual and high end floors...than lift the heavy chair that matches the decor of the building. It could have been a folding chair and he could have kept the money.

If you have played golf all of your life as many of us have, than you know the expense that it entails. If you are a golfer you know what is offered here, enough said on that. If you are aware of landscaping and the cost to maintain it, than look at the lush places, blooming waving, and dazzling with their color and the flowers changed out every six weeks.

Gary Morse is a very rich man. I know some rich folks and it seems that they got rich by getting up early and working hard.

I admire the Morses too in creating the Villages. They took a tract of cow pasture and made it into a Disneyland for Seniors.

[Tom Hannon]

G Morse is 75. I sure hope he is VERY careful with the future of The Villages. I know the 3 kids have divvied(sp?) up the areas to run but also know that once they get older or health gets in their way then the next generation gets involved etc. Human nature and greed could sure cause some problems. I know this is all speculation but you have to remember I am still the Wannabe and want the place to remain WONDERFUL for many years to come.

Another thought about greed? I can't know the heart of the Morses but perhaps altruistism and greed both play a part. I just say that because I often have mixed intentions in my own heart over matters. Just sayin.

Love the Villages!

I agree with ssmith. Although unlikely, suppose the generation after this one takes over and says "No more free golf?" Or suppose they start playing Rap Music through the towns? Suppose this generation evicts people like Redwitch who don't bow down and pray to the the Almighty Moss God. We don't have to worry too much because in another 30 years or so, most of us will be dead and it won't matter.

Gary seems to be in great health and although he is a private person, he has to feel proud about his accomplishments. I've said this before. "Wonder if Gary checks in to TOTV once in a while just to see what people think of him."
I would.

[buggyone]

Interesting article. Nothing new there, though. There do seem to some underlying hints at greed and ethic questions. I will admit I have never liked the idea that boards in TV were always 100% Morse employees. That just never seemed right to me.

I can't say I'm particularly grateful to the Morses or even Schwartz. I do believe there was great vision and a marvelous ability to turn that vision into reality. It wasn't done for some altruistic dream -- it was done to make money and the Morses have done that quite well. This takes nothing away from TV and our love of TV. To me, loving TV doesn't mean I have to love the Morses or even be particularly thankful to them. I thank them daily every time I open my purse and purchase something. Kudos to the Morses for showing the American dream is still alive and well.

The Morse family had the vision to make The Villages as wonderful as possible and they certainly have succeeded. I cannot imagine a better place to live.

As for them making money - more power to them, I say. I know they make money off of my visits to restaurants, shops, and other Village places but I do not begrudge them one bit.

[jsw14]

The Morse family had the vision to make The Villages as wonderful as possible and they certainly have succeeded. I cannot imagine a better place to live.

As for them making money - more power to them, I say. I know they make money off of my visits to restaurants, shops, and other Village places but I do not begrudge them one bit.

Amen Bro:$::$:

[pappy1]

Thanks for the post - good article.

Have not seen these questions asked .....

What are the implications to Villagers if the State of Florida & IRS challenges are successful? Who would pay any taxes due? Could Villagers be "assessed" to meet the obligations if they are deemed due by the "Districts"? Who would vote on the validity of that assessmment...the same friends & family?

[redwitch]

The Morse family had the vision to make The Villages as wonderful as possible and they certainly have succeeded. I cannot imagine a better place to live.

As for them making money - more power to them, I say. I know they make money off of my visits to restaurants, shops, and other Village places but I do not begrudge them one bit.

Neither do I. I'm just not grateful to them for them making the money. I figure my willingness to spend money in TV is enough thanks to the Morses. I appreciate TV but, to me, the best thing here are the people who live here -- it was built the way it was to make money and more power to them for succeeding. And now I'm gonna get ready to have some fun and enjoy my life here.

[NotGolfer]

Whoa.

I am a capitalist. THERE IS NO SIN in being successful financially. but there is a lot of class envy going on here and you can quickly tell a persons political leanings by how they react to the Morse family.

In building it's fortune the Morse family also changed a seriously poor county in Florida into one of it's best in terms of employment and business. And...if you build a better mouse trap is not the same as robbing from the poor.

Gary Morse could be a really corrupt person, I certainly don't know him personally, few do, but I see hundreds of ways that he could easily have given us less and made more money. The next time you are in any of the rec centers, regional, neighborhood, just lift one of the card chairs in the meeting rooms. Wait, before you do that, look around at the room and see all of the really expensive things hanging on the walls, the too many chandeliers on the ceiling, the unusual and high end floors...than lift the heavy chair that matches the decor of the building. It could have been a folding chair and he could have kept the money.

If you have played golf all of your life as many of us have, than you know the expense that it entails. If you are a golfer you know what is offered here, enough said on that. If you are aware of landscaping and the cost to maintain it, than look at the lush places, blooming waving, and dazzling with their color and the flowers changed out every six weeks.

Gary Morse is a very rich man. I know some rich folks and it seems that they got rich by getting up early and working hard.

Kudos to you Gracie!! I so agree with you and don't understand why "some" are so suspicious and negative about the Morse family and blah, blah, blah. This kind of discussion has gone on before and frankly it's been hashed and rehashed. Alot of folks try to rub two nickles together to make more cash....some are greatly successful and others are not for whatever reason. Our country was founded on "Free Enterprise" and many are knocking at it's doors to come and try to find their dream here in the U.S. Mr Schwartz had an idea and ran with it...then his kids came along and took it further to what we have today. I personally love it here and am thankful each day for the blessings AND privilege we have to live here. IF these folks who are disparaging don't like it here, perhaps there is a better, more reasonable place to live. Just saying.........

[jojo]

Can anyone explain what this quote entails and whether it implies new development? "Morse and his family own 40 percent of Lazy B Cattle Ventures LLC. Current and former employees own the rest of the cattle farm, which uses some of the Florida land near the Villages that Morse plans to develop, according to the IRS."

[Bogie Shooter]

Thanks for the post - good article.

Have not seen these questions asked .....

What are the implications to Villagers if the State of Florida & IRS challenges are successful? Who would pay any taxes due? Could Villagers be "assessed" to meet the obligations if they are deemed due by the "Districts"? Who would vote on the validity of that assessmment...the same friends & family?

By the number of your posts, you must be new to TOTV.
Yes these questions have been asked many, many times on TOTV. Hundreds of posters have speculated, given their opinions....without the factual answer.
You can visit these sites or do a search on TOTV to form your own opinon.
Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/IRSupdate.aspx)
Property Owners, Association of Florida (http://www.poa4us.org/)
The Villages Homeowners Association (http://www.thevha.net/)

[batman911]

Thanks for the post - good article.

Have not seen these questions asked .....

What are the implications to Villagers if the State of Florida & IRS challenges are successful? Who would pay any taxes due? Could Villagers be "assessed" to meet the obligations if they are deemed due by the "Districts"? Who would vote on the validity of that assessmment...the same friends & family?

I believe the persons/entities that purchased the bonds would owe back taxes on any income derived from the bonds. That would probably cause these persons/entities to bring legal action against the original seller of the bonds to recover their losses. The bonds would be recalled and re-issued as taxable bonds (meaning the districts would pay more interest than they did on tax free bonds). It may not be such a bad thing since interest rates are probably much lower now than when to original bonds were issued.

[billethkid]

we are no more beholding to Gary Morse for making the TV anymore than we are to Jeff Immelt (CEO GE) for making our cook top and washer and dryer....however we do live exceptionally well here because of the results achieved in the way they went about presenting a product that we all enjoy so very much and is pretty much without comparison world wide.

To provide that product and become wealthy in the process is the American way. I am particularly impressed ever since I first met him and many of his family members at the low profile that they keep. I am also impressed with the fact they have elected to live here with us.

As for the subject of greed....why does it always seem to surface when talking about the wealthy? When greed is so much a part of everyone of us in varying degrees. I never met anyone....wealthy or not....who did not want to earn more, have more. The worst kind of greed in my opinion is in the hearts of those who begrudge those who have more than they do.....and especially of the wealthy.

Congratulation to Gary Morse for continuing his father's vision.....which those who follow Gary will do like wise. Why wouldn't they? Why quarrel with success?

btk

[Schaumburger]

Can anyone explain what this quote entails and whether it implies new development? "Morse and his family own 40 percent of Lazy B Cattle Ventures LLC. Current and former employees own the rest of the cattle farm, which uses some of the Florida land near the Villages that Morse plans to develop, according to the IRS."

I have not read the article yet -- where is the Lazy B Cattle farm in relation to TV?

[EdV]

Once again the press has been confused by the unusual nature of the structure of TV and printed an article with misinformation and unfounded innuendos. Then again, Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt sells newspapers.


No state government has the authority to grant federal tax free status to anything, including bonds issued by municipalities within its boundaries. The Florida statute 190 which authorized the establishment of Community Development Districts allows them to simply issue bonds. It�s up to the CDD that issues the bond to establish them as federally tax free if they feel they are qualified.
The 10 numbered CDD�s that comprise all of the residential homes and common areas within TV either are, or will eventually be controlled by a Board of Supervisors elected by the homeowners. Morse controls the two special CDD�s that contain all of his commercial properties and all the recreation centers and golf courses. But to imply that he controls all of the CDD�s is blatantly misleading.
When the article states that �Each time he created a district to issue bonds, Morse created a five-member board to run the community in lieu of a municipal government. The boards that approved 38 of the bond offerings were staffed almost entirely with his employees at the time the bonds were sold� it erroneously implies some sort of impropriety. Yet that is exactly how Chapter 190 dictates it should be done. Who should he have appointed, employees of Del Webb?
Finally, this article as well as many others issued by The Sentinel, seem to go out of their way to give the impression that because the IRS is challenging the special circumstances surrounding the tax free bonds issued by Morse�s two commercial CDDs, that the rest of the 10 residential CDDs and the 1600 CDDs in the state are somehow in jeopardy. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

The whole thing really boils down to the fact that the IRS wants the tax free bonds issued by the two commercial CDDs to be recalled and re-issued as taxable muni bonds and then a fine and payment of the lost tax revenue to be paid. Many millions of dollars involved no doubt, but multi-billionaire Morse with over 4 million square feet of commercial space in those two CDDs (not including Brownwood), he can handle it.

[quirky3]

I have not read the article yet -- where is the Lazy B Cattle farm in relation to TV?

From the minutes of a 12/5/2011 SUmter County Division of Planning & Development meeting:
http://sumtercountyfl.gov/archives/43/12-5-11.pdf

Lazy B Cattle Ventures, LTD - Major Development - Preliminary & Engineering Plan Approval
Accessed from either Clemente Court and/or Banderos Ave., west of US 441/27/The Villages
Chris Potts, Farner Barley & Associates, representative for the applicant, was present and requested
Preliminary and Engineering Plan approval to develop a parking lot addition to be used by a
commercial development known as Spanish Plaines.
Mr. Cornelius stated Planning and Development and Sumter County Fire Services had no comments.
Mr. Oxendine confirmed his comments were received by the applicant. Mr. Potts confirmed he
received the comments and they will be addressed.
Ms. Stalder confirmed her comments were received by the applicant. Mr. Potts confirmed he received
the comments and they will be addressed.
Mr. Hickey and Mr. Shrewsbury had no comments.
Mr. Hickey made a motion to recommend approval of the Preliminary and Engineering Plans subject
to all comments being addressed and revised plans being submitted. Mr. Shrewsbury seconded the
motion, and the motion carried.

[Golfer in Sanibel]

As for the subject of greed....why does it always seem to surface when talking about the wealthy? When greed is so much a part of everyone of us in varying degrees. I never met anyone....wealthy or not....who did not want to earn more, have more. The worst kind of greed in my opinion is in the hearts of those who begrudge those who have more than they do.....and especially of the wealthy.btk

Nice job. That was well stated. Of course we are at a time in this country where class envy is a tool of a certain political party to gain power and hold it. They accuse the wealthy of greed and improprieties while they break laws and live the same lifestyle of the billionaires with servants, butlers and personal jets. Wouldn't you like to be able to take a couple hundred of your friends and relatives to Europe for a week or two? Those in power that speak loudest of the greed of bankers, business owners and Wall Street are able to do exactly that, with your tax dollars. Is this a great country or what?:swear::swear:

[jsw14]

STOP & Think People......Everybody that Lives in TV is Living the Dream of what Gary Morse has developed. Ya got to spend $$$$$ too make $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$........

[cynkr67]

All good points!!

[ekdk92]

Don't want to get too political, but I object to assumptions that one's views on the success and wealth of the Morse family translates to party preference, Many beliefs on a variety of issues have formed my political views and I imagine the same is true for many others.

[Schaumburger]

From the minutes of a 12/5/2011 SUmter County Division of Planning & Development meeting:
http://sumtercountyfl.gov/archives/43/12-5-11.pdf

Lazy B Cattle Ventures, LTD - Major Development - Preliminary & Engineering Plan Approval
Accessed from either Clemente Court and/or Banderos Ave., west of US 441/27/The Villages
Chris Potts, Farner Barley & Associates, representative for the applicant, was present and requested
Preliminary and Engineering Plan approval to develop a parking lot addition to be used by a
commercial development known as Spanish Plaines.
Mr. Cornelius stated Planning and Development and Sumter County Fire Services had no comments.
Mr. Oxendine confirmed his comments were received by the applicant. Mr. Potts confirmed he
received the comments and they will be addressed.
Ms. Stalder confirmed her comments were received by the applicant. Mr. Potts confirmed he received
the comments and they will be addressed.
Mr. Hickey and Mr. Shrewsbury had no comments.
Mr. Hickey made a motion to recommend approval of the Preliminary and Engineering Plans subject
to all comments being addressed and revised plans being submitted. Mr. Shrewsbury seconded the
motion, and the motion carried.

Quirky, Thank you for posting that link. I skimmed the meeting minutes -- pretty dry stuff. I read the article -- pretty interesting.

[Challenger]

There are only three things any of us can do with our money (rich or poor). We can spend what we have , or in some cases more than we have, we can save(invest) it or we can burry it in a hole.
In the case of the first two options , at least from a financial standpoint, there is a societal benefit. When we , or the "rich" spend, jobs are created or sustained usually up and down the chain from management to blue collar to cleaning staff. I remember the luxury tax on boats some years ago and the hundreds of craftsmen and laborers who lost their jobs because of it. I hope that GM and many like him keep buying the toys that I can't afford.

When we( and the rich} hoard our funds buy investing, we create the capital on which a viable economy is built. I hope that GM and others keep hoarding(investing) so that we have the seed capital to build our industrial base and for our children to obtain loans for homes and college etc.Let's hope the investments and expenditures are made with some care regarding the morality of the products and companies involved.

Hopefully GM is philanthropic(I have no idea) as are Gates and Buffet and many many others with wealth who contribute $billons annually.

[jblum315]

I hope Gary Morse lives forever, because I don't know what might happen after he's gone. I thank him every day for the life he has made possible for us Villagers. The only fact in the story that I find questionable is the cost of his house. Only $1 million? I don't think so. His yacht cost more than that!!

[quirky3]

Quirky, Thank you for posting that link. I skimmed the meeting minutes -- pretty dry stuff. I read the article -- pretty interesting.

Yes, the reason I posted it is because it describes the physical location of the property.

[jerseyvillager]

To the Morse Family:

You can't please them all but you're doing a hell of a job pleasing the majority.

Thanks and keep up the good work and if that is making you money - BLESS YOU!

[Bonny]

To the Morse Family:

You can't please them all but you're doing a hell of a job pleasing the majority.

Thanks and keep up the good work and if that is making you money - BLESS YOU!
I definitely second that !!! :BigApplause:

[anarick]

Is there a Villages II in the making ???

[janmcn]

Is there a Villages II in the making ???

All rumors, articles, and innuendo point to it being in Texas.

[Bonny]

I've heard several and also it was in print, that definitely not Texas.

[Tom Hannon]

To the Morse Family:

You can't please them all but you're doing a hell of a job pleasing the majority.

Thanks and keep up the good work and if that is making you money - BLESS YOU!

I know someone in The Morse family reads these posts. It would be nice if Gary would respond once in a while. Send me a PM if you wish. I promise I won't forward what you say to anyone.

[Bogie Shooter]

I know someone in The Morse family reads these posts. It would be nice if Gary would respond once in a while. Send me a PM if you wish. I promise I won't forward what you say to anyone.

How do you know that??

[justjim]

The debate regarding TV tax free bonds has been going on for several years with the IRS with no closure. Goes to show you how complicated the Government can make things and how inept they are to even interpret their own rules and regulations. I do know this----Disney World was built under the same concept. The difference I can see in the two is that you can buy a piece of the action of Disney by buying a public traded company stock. Of course, no way to buy into the profits of The Villages. Just a thought. Before I retired (while looking at retirement communities) I had the opportunity to meet Mr. Harold Schwartz who was very warm and friendly to my wife and I as we visited the Sales Office. He use to "hang around" The Villages and greet people as they visited and was very friendly and personable. We have never met Mr. Morse who I understand is very very private. I've met a few people with "real money" in my life and they were always very nice.....Is this a Great County or what?

[Tom Hannon]

How do you know that??

Because if I was responsible for something like this and there was a website with Village Home Owners I'd like to check out what was being said about me. Also to read peoples complaints and see If I could do something to improve the situation.

I am not Gary Moss, Bogie , but I can't believe he or someone in his family doesn't sign on to TOTV once in a while

[graciegirl]

Because if I was responsible for something like this and there was a website with Village Home Owners I'd like to check out what was being said about me. Also to read peoples complaints and see If I could do something to improve the situation.

I am not Gary Moss, Bogie , but I can't believe he or someone in his family doesn't sign on to TOTV once in a while

I absolutely think so too.

[BogeyBoy]

I absolutely think so too.

I don't think so.

Gary Sorry, I meant to sign as Bogeyboy

[BaylorBear]

All rumors, articles, and innuendo point to it being in Texas.

Lord, I hope not!! It is too damn hot here!! That's why we are retiring from Austin, TX in December to The Villages -- for the cooler weather!! It was 97 yesterday and it is only early June. Summers here are 105+ for July through September!! The further south in Texas you go, it is even hotter!!

[BogeyBoy]

From the minutes of a 12/5/2011 SUmter County Division of Planning & Development meeting:
http://sumtercountyfl.gov/archives/43/12-5-11.pdf

Lazy B Cattle Ventures, LTD - Major Development - Preliminary & Engineering Plan Approval
Accessed from either Clemente Court and/or Banderos Ave., west of US 441/27/The Villages
Chris Potts, Farner Barley & Associates, representative for the applicant, was present and requested
Preliminary and Engineering Plan approval to develop a parking lot addition to be used by a
commercial development known as Spanish Plaines.
Mr. Cornelius stated Planning and Development and Sumter County Fire Services had no comments.
Mr. Oxendine confirmed his comments were received by the applicant. Mr. Potts confirmed he
received the comments and they will be addressed.
Ms. Stalder confirmed her comments were received by the applicant. Mr. Potts confirmed he received
the comments and they will be addressed.
Mr. Hickey and Mr. Shrewsbury had no comments.
Mr. Hickey made a motion to recommend approval of the Preliminary and Engineering Plans subject
to all comments being addressed and revised plans being submitted. Mr. Shrewsbury seconded the
motion, and the motion carried.

This is located near the hospital, another commercial development.

Lazy B owns many areas - some vacant commercial, some agricultural (aka tax write off), some shopping center.

[aljetmet]

I believe the persons/entities that purchased the bonds would owe back taxes on any income derived from the bonds. That would probably cause these persons/entities to bring legal action against the original seller of the bonds to recover their losses. The bonds would be recalled and re-issued as taxable bonds (meaning the districts would pay more interest than they did on tax free bonds). It may not be such a bad thing since interest rates are probably much lower now than when to original bonds were issued.

I think the penalty that the IRS would impose on the issuer of the bonds would more than compensate the IRS for the revenues it lost due to the tax-exempt status of the bonds. I agree, the bonds would have to be purchased back by the issuer. The question is at what value? Based on current interest rates, the value should be much higher than par. That would be very very expensive to the issuer of the bond. Yes, where would the money come from? I'm sure the developer would just eat it. He gets such high praises from the residents.... Which he really deserves even with this issue. He had accountants and attorneys set this up. This is America, need to be a true capitalist.

My guess is as good as anyone elses. It's only a guess.

.

[jsw14]

I know someone in The Morse family reads these posts. It would be nice if Gary would respond once in a while. Send me a PM if you wish. I promise I won't forward what you say to anyone.

How can the Morse family Not read TOTV.. That (imo) is their inspiration!!!!!

[manaboutown]

I do know this----Disney World was built under the same concept.

I believe I read somewhere that the Disney company came up with the concept and requested and lobbied through the legislation creating Florida's CDD statutes so they could finance and build Disney World. Other types of developers including the Morse family picked up on the concept and have utilized and benefitted from it.

As far as I am concerned Gary Morse is a very creative man capable of planning and developing his vision as well as a marketing genius. He sells by providing what people want at affordable cost. Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head to buy in The Villages, in fact quite the opposite - and what a pleasant experience that is! No governmental agency could have accomplished as much at anything near the same cost. Various business ventures and experiences over several generations combined to creat a knowledge and know-how base and along with creative ability and effort, thoughtful and careful planning, the willingness to take the huge risk and a lot of hard work of many kinds The Villages has been developed and is being smoothly and well operated. Although Del Webb probably started it all with Sun City in Arizona The Villages is several generations removed. It is like going from a 1918 biplane to a modern jet - and congrats Gary on owning four of them! You earned them the old fashioned way. Of course Gary has made money. That is one incentive yet I imagine he also quietly takes pride in a job well done as have Disney, Jobs and others.

[Pickle-junkie-Jim]

[URL Attempt (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54457)] User received an error - No action required!

Check out todays article about Gary Morse. very interesting story about himself and The Villages

Businessweek - Business News, Stock Market & Financial Advice (http://www.businessweek.com)
couldn't't locate the article within the link ... it's under hat section please?

[Advogado]

I think the penalty that the IRS would impose on the issuer of the bonds would more than compensate the IRS for the revenues it lost due to the tax-exempt status of the bonds. I agree, the bonds would have to be purchased back by the issuer. The question is at what value? Based on current interest rates, the value should be much higher than par. That would be very very expensive to the issuer of the bond. Yes, where would the money come from? I'm sure the developer would just eat it. He gets such high praises from the residents.... Which he really deserves even with this issue. He had accountants and attorneys set this up. This is America, need to be a true capitalist.

My guess is as good as anyone elses. It's only a guess.

.

Remember that the Developer is The Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc., a corporation, not the Morse family. Do you have any reason to believe that that corporation has adequate assets to cover the potentially huge liability to the Center Districts (which own our amenities) resulting from the IRS's sustaining its position?

[NotGolfer]

I believe I read somewhere that the Disney company came up with the concept and requested and lobbied through the legislation creating Florida's CDD statutes so they could finance and build Disney World. Other types of developers including the Morse family picked up on the concept and have utilized and benefitted from it.

As far as I am concerned Gary Morse is a very creative man capable of planning and developing his vision as well as a marketing genius. He sells by providing what people want at affordable cost. Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head to buy in The Villages, in fact quite the opposite - and what a pleasant experience that is! No governmental agency could have accomplished as much at anything near the same cost. Various business ventures and experiences over several generations combined to creat a knowledge and know-how base and along with creative ability and effort, thoughtful and careful planning, the willingness to take the huge risk and a lot of hard work of many kinds The Villages has been developed and is being smoothly and well operated. Although Del Webb probably started it all with Sun City in Arizona The Villages is several generations removed. It is like going from a 1918 biplane to a modern jet - and congrats Gary on owning four of them! You earned them the old fashioned way. Of course Gary has made money. That is one incentive yet I imagine he also quietly takes pride in a job well done as have Disney, Jobs and others.

Amen to this post!!! I agree....especially with the last sentence! TV has brought MUCH to this area...along with giving us and YOU a lovely place to spend our retirement years. :a040:

[Bonny]

Do you really think the Morses' need to read TOTV ?? I would think they have plenty to keep them busy that they really don't need to or have the time to sit & read this. We all love it, but I think they may be a little too busy creating great things for us to sit & read this. LOL

[Tom Hannon]

Do you really think the Morses' need to read TOTV ?? I would think they have plenty to keep them busy that they really don't need to or have the time to sit & read this. We all love it, but I think they may be a little too busy creating great things for us to sit & read this. LOL

Yes, I do think The Morse Family reads TOTV. Do you think that Steve Jobs never checked out Bill Gates's operating systems...or the other way around.

Gary has been pushing all the right buttons and although some people think he did it just for the money, but I can't believe it. Gary has to be in awe of the dream he created. Gary Morse is watching. Hey Gary? Back me up on this. Send a confirming email.

[redwitch]

Sorry, I can't imagine Gary or his family reading this forum. Do you think he would really care if we were unhappy with a restaurant or a contractor? He already knows the IRS issues (far better than we do, I would hope); he knows how to build something that makes people come. We are a very small part of TV -- I think there are more non-resident posters(wannabes and gonnabes) than residents here. Many residents here think TOTV is nothing more than a complaint center and want nothing to do with TOTV. Why would Morse think much more of us?

I do know some employees of TV read this column (not just Villagers) but, so far as I know, none have even met the Morses, let alone report what is written here to them.

This is not a Jobs/Gates thing. Heck, TOTV isn't even a POA/HOA thing. TOTV is something we love but not something that is going to give a lot of information to a Gary Morse.

[EdV]

... I do know this----Disney World was built under the same concept...

I believe I read somewhere that the Disney company came up with the concept and requested and lobbied through the legislation creating Florida's CDD statutes so they could finance and build Disney World....

Sorry but Disney World was built long before Florida�s CDD statute went into effect. You�re confusing this with Disney�s planned community called Celebration (http://www.celebrationcdd.org/f-a-q). This community of ~1000 homes was built in the mid 90�s and was established as a Florida CDD (http://www.floridacddreport.com/viewdistrict_list.cfm).

[graciegirl]

Sorry, I can't imagine Gary or his family reading this forum. Do you think he would really care if we were unhappy with a restaurant or a contractor? He already knows the IRS issues (far better than we do, I would hope); he knows how to build something that makes people come. We are a very small part of TV -- I think there are more non-resident posters(wannabes and gonnabes) than residents here. Many residents here think TOTV is nothing more than a complaint center and want nothing to do with TOTV. Why would Morse think much more of us?

I do know some employees of TV read this column (not just Villagers) but, so far as I know, none have even met the Morses, let alone report what is written here to them.

This is not a Jobs/Gates thing. Heck, TOTV isn't even a POA/HOA thing. TOTV is something we love but not something that is going to give a lot of information to a Gary Morse.

Yes I do think the Morses, all of them read this forum. It has a lot of bilge but it also is a finger on the pulse of their customer and potential customer. They are hands on and have improved on their ideas and concepts over time. That doesn't mean that they are gonna jump to build an indoor pool or add more exercise facilities or mandate fat free at their restaurants...in MY OPINION, but they are good businss people and they know what they can do to give the consumer the ultimate bang for their buck.

Plus something inside of me feels that they are so beyond making money that somewhere floats in the goals they have is establishing a place for seniors to live never before seen on this planet. Everyone would love a legacy to the time spent on this earth. I think this place is it.

Beats the heck outa the tombstone I have planned that says


WHAT?????

[robertj1954]

Interesting article. I read the book Leisureville when I first learned about The Villages and someone mentioned the book. This article, just like the book, is written with an agenda of painting the Morse family as greedy and corrupt by taking advantage of legal loop holes. That comes from a liberal bias which was very clear in the words written by Andrew Blechman (Leisureville.

I am sure mistakes were made over the years by the Morse family, but I reject the idea of any criminal intent or fraud. Mr. Morse is far too smart a businessman to get caught up in any out right criminal conduct. His attorneys and accountants are probably the best in the country and know when and how to use the Federal Tax Codes to his advantage, just like any other successful businessman. It has only been over the past four years where legal loopholes have been defined as criminal intent. Most of what is written in that Bloomberg article is like others on the far-left (Wall Street Protestors) who attempt to make villains out of hard working successful Americans. I reject that philosophy and it is the major reason why I oppose Obama and his social justice approach to government, which is simply a metaphor for socialism! Capitalism has been the core to America's greatness and I have always questioned the motives of anyone wanting to destroy it.

There should always be checks and balances in every system because absolute power always corrupts. Here in the Villages, the POA acts as a check on the power of the Morse family's influence and they do a very good job. The POA was not even mentioned in the article. I believe they had a role in getting the settlement between the Morse Family and District 1 with regards to over payments for district assets.

I have always admired successful people in this country, Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse certainly proved they have what it takes to reach the top. It is a shame how politics on the left today have divided people attempting to create class warfare. That is not the American way. The other day a very clear message was sent by Americans in Wisconsin. I believe that same message will resonate across the nation in November as Americans reject the liberals and their attempt to expand government. Thanks for sharing the article.

[jsw14]

Interesting article. I read the book Leisureville when I first learned about The Villages and someone mentioned the book. This article, just like the book, is written with an agenda of painting the Morse family as greedy and corrupt by taking advantage of legal loop holes. That comes from a liberal bias which was very clear in the words written by Andrew Blechman (Leisureville.

I am sure mistakes were made over the years by the Morse family, but I reject the idea of any criminal intent or fraud. Mr. Morse is far too smart a businessman to get caught up in any out right criminal conduct. His attorneys and accountants are probably the best in the country and know when and how to use the Federal Tax Codes to his advantage, just like any other successful businessman. It has only been over the past four years where legal loopholes have been defined as criminal intent. Most of what is written in that Bloomberg article is like others on the far-left (Wall Street Protestors) who attempt to make villains out of hard working successful Americans. I reject that philosophy and it is the major reason why I oppose Obama and his social justice approach to government, which is simply a metaphor for socialism! Capitalism has been the core to America's greatness and I have always questioned the motives of anyone wanting to destroy it.

There should always be checks and balances in every system because absolute power always corrupts. Here in the Villages, the POA acts as a check on the power of the Morse family's influence and they do a very good job. The POA was not even mentioned in the article. I believe they had a role in getting the settlement between the Morse Family and District 1 with regards to over payments for district assets.

I have always admired successful people in this country, Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse certainly proved they have what it takes to reach the top. It is a shame how politics on the left today have divided people attempting to create class warfare. That is not the American way. The other day a very clear message was sent by Americans in Wisconsin. I believe that same message will resonate across the nation in November as Americans reject the liberals and their attempt to expand government. Thanks for sharing the article.

Amen to that Bro........"God Bless America"

[Bogie Shooter]

Interesting article. I read the book Leisureville when I first learned about The Villages and someone mentioned the book. This article, just like the book, is written with an agenda of painting the Morse family as greedy and corrupt by taking advantage of legal loop holes. That comes from a liberal bias which was very clear in the words written by Andrew Blechman (Leisureville.

I am sure mistakes were made over the years by the Morse family, but I reject the idea of any criminal intent or fraud. Mr. Morse is far too smart a businessman to get caught up in any out right criminal conduct. His attorneys and accountants are probably the best in the country and know when and how to use the Federal Tax Codes to his advantage, just like any other successful businessman. It has only been over the past four years where legal loopholes have been defined as criminal intent. Most of what is written in that Bloomberg article is like others on the far-left (Wall Street Protestors) who attempt to make villains out of hard working successful Americans. I reject that philosophy and it is the major reason why I oppose Obama and his social justice approach to government, which is simply a metaphor for socialism! Capitalism has been the core to America's greatness and I have always questioned the motives of anyone wanting to destroy it.

There should always be checks and balances in every system because absolute power always corrupts. Here in the Villages, the POA acts as a check on the power of the Morse family's influence and they do a very good job. The POA was not even mentioned in the article. I believe they had a role in getting the settlement between the Morse Family and District 1 with regards to over payments for district assets.

I have always admired successful people in this country, Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse certainly proved they have what it takes to reach the top. It is a shame how politics on the left today have divided people attempting to create class warfare. That is not the American way. The other day a very clear message was sent by Americans in Wisconsin. I believe that same message will resonate across the nation in November as Americans reject the liberals and their attempt to expand government. Thanks for sharing the article.

This post would get a lot of feedback if it were in the political thread........where it belongs.

[Tom Hannon]

Sorry, I can't imagine Gary or his family reading this forum. Do you think he would really care if we were unhappy with a restaurant or a contractor? He already knows the IRS issues (far better than we do, I would hope); he knows how to build something that makes people come. We are a very small part of TV -- I think there are more non-resident posters(wannabes and gonnabes) than residents here. Many residents here think TOTV is nothing more than a complaint center and want nothing to do with TOTV. Why would Morse think much more of us?

I do know some employees of TV read this column (not just Villagers) but, so far as I know, none have even met the Morses, let alone report what is written here to them.

This is not a Jobs/Gates thing. Heck, TOTV isn't even a POA/HOA thing. TOTV is something we love but not something that is going to give a lot of information to a Gary Morse.

This is the first time in my life I have ever disagreed with Redwitch. I can not believe The Morse family isn't in tune with us. Especially in a post that has his name in it. Like they say "Big brother is watching."

[Tom Hannon]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;502716]Yes I do think the Morses, all of them read this forum. It has a lot of bilge but it also is a finger on the pulse of their customer and potential customer. They are hands on and have improved on their ideas and concepts over time. That doesn't mean that they are gonna jump to build an indoor pool or add more exercise facilities or mandate fat free at their restaurants...in MY OPINION, but they are good businss people and they know what they can do to give the consumer the ultimate bang for their buck.

Plus something inside of me feels that they are so beyond making money that somewhere floats in the goals they have is establishing a place for seniors to live never before seen on this planet. Everyone would love a legacy to the time spent on this earth. I think this place is it.

Beats the heck outa the tombstone I have planned that says

Well said, Gracie. You and I seem to be the only ones who feel The Morse's are reading TOTV posts.

[graciegirl]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;502716]Yes I do think the Morses, all of them read this forum. It has a lot of bilge but it also is a finger on the pulse of their customer and potential customer. They are hands on and have improved on their ideas and concepts over time. That doesn't mean that they are gonna jump to build an indoor pool or add more exercise facilities or mandate fat free at their restaurants...in MY OPINION, but they are good businss people and they know what they can do to give the consumer the ultimate bang for their buck.

Plus something inside of me feels that they are so beyond making money that somewhere floats in the goals they have is establishing a place for seniors to live never before seen on this planet. Everyone would love a legacy to the time spent on this earth. I think this place is it.

Beats the heck outa the tombstone I have planned that says

Well said, Gracie. You and I seem to be the only ones who feel The Morse's are reading TOTV posts.


but you and I TOMMY.......we are awesome. ;):coolsmiley::a040::):1rotfl:

[JLHart]

Interesting article. I read the book Leisureville when I first learned about The Villages and someone mentioned the book. This article, just like the book, is written with an agenda of painting the Morse family as greedy and corrupt by taking advantage of legal loop holes. That comes from a liberal bias which was very clear in the words written by Andrew Blechman (Leisureville.

I am sure mistakes were made over the years by the Morse family, but I reject the idea of any criminal intent or fraud. Mr. Morse is far too smart a businessman to get caught up in any out right criminal conduct. His attorneys and accountants are probably the best in the country and know when and how to use the Federal Tax Codes to his advantage, just like any other successful businessman. It has only been over the past four years where legal loopholes have been defined as criminal intent. Most of what is written in that Bloomberg article is like others on the far-left (Wall Street Protestors) who attempt to make villains out of hard working successful Americans. I reject that philosophy and it is the major reason why I oppose Obama and his social justice approach to government, which is simply a metaphor for socialism! Capitalism has been the core to America's greatness and I have always questioned the motives of anyone wanting to destroy it.

There should always be checks and balances in every system because absolute power always corrupts. Here in the Villages, the POA acts as a check on the power of the Morse family's influence and they do a very good job. The POA was not even mentioned in the article. I believe they had a role in getting the settlement between the Morse Family and District 1 with regards to over payments for district assets.

I have always admired successful people in this country, Harold Schwartz and Gary Morse certainly proved they have what it takes to reach the top. It is a shame how politics on the left today have divided people attempting to create class warfare. That is not the American way. The other day a very clear message was sent by Americans in Wisconsin. I believe that same message will resonate across the nation in November as Americans reject the liberals and their attempt to expand government. Thanks for sharing the article.

Oh yes me too!!! I have great admiration for someone that has managed to game the system by setting up special taxing districts (staffed and controlled by Morse) to issue tax fee bonds (paid for by resident amenity fees) to buy stuff from himself. All while making a cool billion or so over the last decade ... TAX FEE!! Now that is good work if you can get it.

Now which one of these icons thingy's is the sarcasm one?

[graciegirl]

Oh yes me too!!! I have great admiration for someone that has managed to game the system by setting up special taxing districts (staffed and controlled by Morse) to issue tax fee bonds (paid for by resident amenity fees) to buy stuff from himself. All while making a cool billion or so over the last decade ... TAX FEE!! Now that is good work if you can get it.

Now which one of these icons thingy's is the sarcasm one?

I am guessing you are annoyed by the editorial section of the paper?

[Taltarzac725]

Yes I do think the Morses, all of them read this forum. It has a lot of bilge but it also is a finger on the pulse of their customer and potential customer. They are hands on and have improved on their ideas and concepts over time. That doesn't mean that they are gonna jump to build an indoor pool or add more exercise facilities or mandate fat free at their restaurants...in MY OPINION, but they are good businss people and they know what they can do to give the consumer the ultimate bang for their buck.

Plus something inside of me feels that they are so beyond making money that somewhere floats in the goals they have is establishing a place for seniors to live never before seen on this planet. Everyone would love a legacy to the time spent on this earth. I think this place is it.

Beats the heck outa the tombstone I have planned that says


WHAT?????

They probably read it on occasion. Doubt if they are regulars on TOTV though. This site gets a huge amount of traffic and I cannot see a good businessman not keeping his friends close (as the saying goes). The Virginia Trace site has a link to TOTV and I learned about TOTV back in the Summer of 2007 from a talk Talk Host did at the Villages Computer Club. That's a lot of links to the Villages. *VIRGINIA TRACE,* THE VILLAGES,* FLORIDA (http://www.virginiatrace.com/)

[NotGolfer]

So....how many people go into business to "lose" money and not be successful?? Then, I ask, how many in business look for tax breaks and ways to invest their resources??

I have to wonder after being in this site for awhile now (a rhetorical question) why there are "some" who live here, who think the developer is out to "get" you??? If that's the case...then why stay here?? You could sell your place and move to another area, that doesn't offer as much as we have here! We are so blessed and privileged to have this beautiful place to enjoy our retirement years. Sure beats the snow/cold/ice of up north!!!

"IF" they should read this...I want to thank them for the ideas they have had and making this such a special place to live! :bigbow:

[hdh1470]

:agree:So....how many people go into business to "lose" money and not be successful?? Then, I ask, how many in business look for tax breaks and ways to invest their resources??

I have to wonder after being in this site for awhile now (a rhetorical question) why there are "some" who live here, who think the developer is out to "get" you??? If that's the case...then why stay here?? You could sell your place and move to another area, that doesn't offer as much as we have here! We are so blessed and privileged to have this beautiful place to enjoy our retirement years. Sure beats the snow/cold/ice of up north!!!

"IF" they should read this...I want to thank them for the ideas they have had and making this such a special place to live! :bigbow:

[jblum315]

So....how many people go into business to "lose" money and not be successful?? Then, I ask, how many in business look for tax breaks and ways to invest their resources??

I have to wonder after being in this site for awhile now (a rhetorical question) why there are "some" who live here, who think the developer is out to "get" you??? If that's the case...then why stay here?? You could sell your place and move to another area, that doesn't offer as much as we have here! We are so blessed and privileged to have this beautiful place to enjoy our retirement years. Sure beats the snow/cold/ice of up north!!!

"IF" they should read this...I want to thank them for the ideas they have had and making this such a special place to live! :bigbow:

I agree. I hope Gary Morse lives forever and keeps on making money.

[collie1228]

What would lead you to believe that Morse made a billion tax free (the post does say TAX FEE, and I'm assuming there is an "R" missing there)? I've kept up with all of the information on the IRS issue, and clearly Morse paid federal income taxes on the gain from the transactions. You have every right to criticize Morse for the IRS issue as it relates to tax free bonds, but you can't criticize him for not paying his federal income taxes. That would be untrue.

[quidam65]

As soon as I saw that Blechman was behind the article I knew what to expect--another hack job by one who believes we should all be part of a government-controlled collective. Individual rights and liberties are anathema to him and his liberal-minded ilk.

Anyone who has read his book Leisureville (and I would recommend it even for the most pro-Mr. Morse follower out there) knows his dislike for the modern-day age-restricted retirement community (he feels that places like TV should be outlawed) and for Mr. Morse.

Did Mr. Morse take advantage of a legal loophole in his creation and operation of TV? Of course. When Florida's CDD law was being written, it was certainly expected that the developer would control the CDD until enough people moved in and the development was sustainable, then transition it into either a resident-sustained entity or merge it into a city or county government. Nobody expected a situation whereby a CDD would be structured in such a way that it would never transition from a developer-controlled one.

I'm an outsider (both not living in Florida and not old enough to move to TV) but I commend Mr. Morse. His father had essentially a floundering real estate business that could have easily been yet another failed enterprise as so many are. But his son learned from others (Del Webb) how successful retirement communities operate, and went well above and beyond what Webb did at Sun City. Essentially he did at TV what Henry Ford did in the early years at Ford Motor Company (nearly complete vertical integration) with the added twist of being able to legally control a governmental entity as well.

[JLHart]

I am guessing you are annoyed by the editorial section of the paper?

The Daily Sun is a pathetic embarrassment to journalism. It is nothing more than another marketing arm for the Morse family's business enterprises and political positions.

[graciegirl]

The Daily Sun is a pathetic embarrassment to journalism. It is nothing more than another marketing arm for the Morse family's business enterprises and political positions.

Figured as much. And you are younger?

[JLHart]

As soon as I saw that Blechman was behind the article I knew what to expect--another hack job by one who believes we should all be part of a government-controlled collective. Individual rights and liberties are anathema to him and his liberal-minded ilk.
.

Yet you apparently can not wait to be a part of the Morse's controlled collective were your individual liberties are STRICTLY controlled by a vast array of covenants.

Welcome to The Villages!! Were you are free to do with your property exactly what we tell you can and remember ... it is Florida's friendliest hometown!!

[JLHart]

"Figured as much. And you are younger?"

Younger than what? and what does that have to do with the subject?

[graciegirl]

Yet you apparently can not wait to be a part of the Morse's controlled collective were your individual liberties are STRICTLY controlled by a vast array of covenants.

Welcome to The Villages!! Were you are free to do with your property exactly what we tell you can and remember ... it is Florida's friendliest hometown!!

A great many of us have moved from neighborhoods where there were very similar restrictions and some even more restrictive. Deed restrictions are a choice we make. No one says we must live here.

I asked if you were younger and you asked younger than what and I guess the answer would be...younger than 55. This area is primarily for the over 55 population. We follks who are over 55 have a great deal in common and most of us are retired after a long time working and a long time of careful planning to have the privilege to live here.

I am sorry you are unhappy but it appears that your unhappiness really doesn't have much to do with this place, more the circumstances that brought you here.

[JLHart]

A great many of us have moved from neighborhoods where there were very similar restrictions and some even more restrictive. Deed restrictions are a choice we make. No one says we must live here.

I asked if you were younger and you asked younger than what and I guess the answer would be...younger than 55. This area is primarily for the over 55 population. We follks who are over 55 have a great deal in common and most of us are retired after a long time working and a long time of careful planning to have the privilege to live here.

I am sorry you are unhappy but it appears that your unhappiness really doesn't have much to do with this place, more the circumstances that brought you here.

Your powers of psychoanalyzation suffer from acute lack of reading comprehension. I regret that the circumstances are necessary but accept them as part of life .... I HATE the place. Well, perhaps hate is to strong .... strongly dislike? .... loath? .... no, I hate it.

[redwitch]

The Daily Sun is a pathetic embarrassment to journalism. It is nothing more than another marketing arm for the Morse family's business enterprises and political positions.

And this is a surprise, why? I refuse to accept that The Daily Sun can even be considered journalism in any true sense, but it is amusing, especially the editorial page (if you don't believe 99% of the drivel written there). At least it has decent comics, Heloise and advice columns. What more does a "newspaper" really need today?

[quidam65]

Yet you apparently can not wait to be a part of the Morse's controlled collective were your individual liberties are STRICTLY controlled by a vast array of covenants.

Welcome to The Villages!! Were you are free to do with your property exactly what we tell you can and remember ... it is Florida's friendliest hometown!!

But those liberties are controlled by covenants that, should I decide to move to TV, are covenants that I FREELY CHOOSE to accept. I currently live in a house within a homeowners' association (and one who's entire amenities are a flower bed at the entrance to the subdivision), so I am well aware of what types of property restrictions and requirements exist.

Blechman, however, would like the GOVERNMENT to DENY people (those over age 55) the right to choose the covenants they wish, and instead FORCE them to accept the covenants it desires to IMPOSE upon them. The only senior-restricted communities he supports are assisted living centers. Places like TV, Sun City, etc. would be OUTLAWED in Blechman's ideal world.

I am sorry you are unhappy with the requirements of TV, either in theory or in practice. Given the current economy I understand that, if you are an unhappy TV resident, you may be unable to sell your residence without taking an unsustainable loss. I hope that the economy improves to where you can sell and move to a place more to your liking. Maybe Blechman can give you some assistance.

[graciegirl]

But those liberties are controlled by covenants that, should I decide to move to TV, are covenants that I FREELY CHOOSE to accept. I currently live in a house within a homeowners' association (and one who's entire amenities are a flower bed at the entrance to the subdivision), so I am well aware of what types of property restrictions and requirements exist.

Blechman, however, would like the GOVERNMENT to DENY people (those over age 55) the right to choose the covenants they wish, and instead FORCE them to accept the covenants it desires to IMPOSE upon them. The only senior-restricted communities he supports are assisted living centers. Places like TV, Sun City, etc. would be OUTLAWED in Blechman's ideal world.

I am sorry you are unhappy with the requirements of TV, either in theory or in practice. Given the current economy I understand that, if you are an unhappy TV resident, you may be unable to sell your residence without taking an unsustainable loss. I hope that the economy improves to where you can sell and move to a place more to your liking. Maybe Blechman can give you some assistance.

Actually it isn't hard to sell properties here and I think that what I understand about JLHart's situation is that he or she lives here with Mother.

And...it is my opinion that a good deal of the discontent read on these pages stems from the surprise some people have to find that the seniors who live here are overwhelmingly political conservatives.

[quidam65]

The Daily Sun is a pathetic embarrassment to journalism. It is nothing more than another marketing arm for the Morse family's business enterprises and political positions.

And I can rightfully say that {insert name of any major newspaper} is a pathetic embarrassment to journalism, and is nothing more than another marketing arm for the Democratic Party.

To my knowledge, there is no requirement that a TV resident must subscribe to The Daily Sun. Nor do I think that TV prohibits residents from subscribing to the Orlando Sentinel or any other local newspaper.

[quidam65]

Actually it isn't hard to sell properties here and I think that what I understand about JLHart's situation is that he or she lives here with Mother.

And...it is my opinion that a good deal of the discontent read on these pages stems from the surprise some people have to find that the seniors who live here are overwhelmingly political conservatives.

Gracie, I have read many of your posts here at TOTV and you are :eclipsee_gold_cup: !

If JLHart lives with Mother she should boot him/her out of the nest.

I agree that a lot of the discontent stems from the conservative political bent of TV (and look forward to hearing that Romney will make a stop). This is a problem with liberals--they cannot and will not accept the fact that the entire country will not simply :bowdown: to them willingly, so they try to force them to do so. But like the story of the little girl, she may be sitting on the outside but she's standing defiantly on the inside.

[Bettiboop]

I don't think so.

Gary Sorry, I meant to sign as Bogeyboy

Gary, is that you??? :D

[JLHart]

And this is a surprise, why? I refuse to accept that The Daily Sun can even be considered journalism in any true sense, but it is amusing, especially the editorial page (if you don't believe 99% of the drivel written there). At least it has decent comics, Heloise and advice columns. What more does a "newspaper" really need today?

Never said nor indicated that I was surprised ... I was asked my opinion of the daily rag and gave it.

[JLHart]

But those liberties are controlled by covenants that, should I decide to move to TV, are covenants that I FREELY CHOOSE to accept. I currently live in a house within a homeowners' association (and one who's entire amenities are a flower bed at the entrance to the subdivision), so I am well aware of what types of property restrictions and requirements exist.

Blechman, however, would like the GOVERNMENT to DENY people (those over age 55) the right to choose the covenants they wish, and instead FORCE them to accept the covenants it desires to IMPOSE upon them. The only senior-restricted communities he supports are assisted living centers. Places like TV, Sun City, etc. would be OUTLAWED in Blechman's ideal world.

I am sorry you are unhappy with the requirements of TV, either in theory or in practice. Given the current economy I understand that, if you are an unhappy TV resident, you may be unable to sell your residence without taking an unsustainable loss. I hope that the economy improves to where you can sell and move to a place more to your liking. Maybe Blechman can give you some assistance.

The key difference is that with government each individual has the ability to effect change ... your vote can and does count. Here in bubble world your daily life is controlled by the Morse family in perpetuate and you have little to no ability to effect change.

If you choose to live under those conditions ... so be it, go for it. But IMO if you think that you are freer by choosing to be regulated ... you are delusional.

as for the rest of your political analysis ... it is full of the typical rightwing strawman & red herring arguments.

[BobKat1]

This all goes back to the fact that one voluntarily signs the documents and agrees to the restrictions etc.

If you find out after the fact and don't like 'em or don't agree with them that's another matter.

It's nothing new with these types of things, goes on all of the time.

[JLHart]

Actually it isn't hard to sell properties here and I think that what I understand about JLHart's situation is that he or she lives here with Mother.

And...it is my opinion that a good deal of the discontent read on these pages stems from the surprise some people have to find that the seniors who live here are overwhelmingly political conservatives.

I do not remember making a single gender specific comment nor reference about my personal situation and I was not surprised in the slightest about the politically conservative nature of bubble world and the equally conservative counties that surround it.

[JLHart]

If JLHart lives with Mother she should boot him/her out of the nest.

I am the care giver ... but thanks for asking.

[Taltarzac725]

But those liberties are controlled by covenants that, should I decide to move to TV, are covenants that I FREELY CHOOSE to accept. I currently live in a house within a homeowners' association (and one who's entire amenities are a flower bed at the entrance to the subdivision), so I am well aware of what types of property restrictions and requirements exist.

Blechman, however, would like the GOVERNMENT to DENY people (those over age 55) the right to choose the covenants they wish, and instead FORCE them to accept the covenants it desires to IMPOSE upon them. The only senior-restricted communities he supports are assisted living centers. Places like TV, Sun City, etc. would be OUTLAWED in Blechman's ideal world.

I am sorry you are unhappy with the requirements of TV, either in theory or in practice. Given the current economy I understand that, if you are an unhappy TV resident, you may be unable to sell your residence without taking an unsustainable loss. I hope that the economy improves to where you can sell and move to a place more to your liking. Maybe Blechman can give you some assistance.

Is that what Blechman wrote? I only thumbed through Leisureville but did not get the impression that the writer wanted government to force covenants on home buyers. The NYT Times book review of Leisureville makes it sound like some 55+ Playboy mansion. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/books/review/Leland-t.html?_r=1

I have found that there are a good number of Democrats in the Villages. They just seem to like to stay in the woodwork more than the much more visible Republicans. There are also a lot of Independents.

[quidam65]

The key difference is that with government each individual has the ability to effect change ... your vote can and does count. Here in bubble world your daily life is controlled by the Morse family in perpetuate and you have little to no ability to effect change.

If you choose to live under those conditions ... so be it, go for it. But IMO if you think that you are freer by choosing to be regulated ... you are delusional.

as for the rest of your political analysis ... it is full of the typical rightwing strawman & red herring arguments.

If I choose to be voluntary regulated (by moving to TV) I can later choose to not be (by moving away from TV).

But if the government regulates me, to where can I go? Yes I can vote for someone who promises to lift the burden, but 1) s/he cannot pass or rescind laws alone, and 2) how many times has someone been elected on the promise of "hope and change", only to do the same things that his/her predecessor did, and many times more so?

As far as the rest of my arguments, those are not "rightwing strawman and red herring arguments". Blechman makes it crystal clear in his book that he opposes age-restricted communities outside of assisted living facilities. If you haven't read it, do so, especially the chapter titled "Cat in the Cradle" (yes it's named after the song, where he opines that people who move to places such as TV are like the father in the song who ignores his son in his younger days, only to have his son do likewise in his older ones).

Again, I'm sorry that upon moving to TV, you have suffered severe buyer's remorse. I hope that you can find a place more to your liking without suffering a severe financial penalty in doing so.

[quidam65]

Is that what Blechman wrote? I only thumbed through Leisureville but did not get the impression that the writer wanted government to force covenants on home buyers. The NYT Times book review of Leisureville makes it sound like some 55+ Playboy mansion. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/books/review/Leland-t.html?_r=1

I have found that there are a good number of Democrats in the Villages. They just seem to like to stay in the woodwork more than the much more visible Republicans. There are also a lot of Independents.

Prior to the 1980's apartment complexes could designate themselves as "all adult" complexes. Not surprisingly, the units were very small as they were designed for no more than 1-2 people each.

But a change in the Federal law eliminated the "all adult" restrictions. So instead of forcing people to accept covenants, the Government removed the right to enter into voluntary ones. Here in DFW there were numerous all adult complexes, among the nicest in the area. Today, they are the most unkept, crime-ridden areas you can find, and you do not have enough money to pay me to live in any of them.

Blechman, though, never discusses the fallout from the removal of the all adult restriction. He focuses, though, on the one major exemption from the "no all adult" rule--the 55+ one that is the basis for the modern retirement community such as TV. And he opposes it strongly except for assisted living facilities.

[Bogie Shooter]

Your powers of psychoanalyzation suffer from acute lack of reading comprehension. I regret that the circumstances are necessary but accept them as part of life .... I HATE the place. Well, perhaps hate is to strong .... strongly dislike? .... loath? .... no, I hate it.

Someone so unhappy should get out now, what are you waiting for??

[EdV]

.... I HATE the place. Well, perhaps hate is to strong .... strongly dislike? .... loath? .... no, I hate it.

It�s unfortunate that you have so much disdain for TV that you feel it gives you the right to use this great forum for a bully pulpit to pour so much vitriol into a discussion and not realize that you will neither learn much nor convince many people of your point.

[quidam65]

It’s unfortunate that you have so much disdain for TV that you feel it gives you the right to use this great forum for a bully pulpit to pour so much vitriol into a discussion and not realize that you will neither learn much nor convince many people of your point.

:bowdown:

Thank you. It's sad that not only does he dislike the area, or the structure, but the entire concept of voluntary restrictions on property. And even sadder, he seemingly supports Blechman's viewpoints.

But as I've outlined, Blechman doesn't just dislike the current structure of TV. If the Village Center and Sumter Landing CDD's were to be structured like the Districts 1-10 it would not suit him. Even if Mr. Morse and his progeny were to completely bow out of TV altogether he would still be unhappy. Blechman disapproves of the concept of the age-restricted community in its entirety and wants the Federal Government to outlaw it altogether.

[Challenger]

The Deed restrictions used in the Villages are not at all unusual in planned developments nation wide. I suspect there is much more to this posters displeasure than the literal enforcement of rules and regualtions.

I would not have bought any residential property in Fl that was not covered by comprehensive zoning and deed restrictions. Drive outside the Bubble into surrounding counties and see the mess that surrounds us

[quidam65]

Someone so unhappy should get out now, what are you waiting for??

S/he is probably underwater on the property and can't sell without taking an unsustainable financial loss.

[quidam65]

The Deed restrictions used in the Villages are not at all unusual in planned developments nation wide. I suspect there is much more to this posters displeasure than the literal enforcement of rules and regualtions.

I would not have bought any residential property in Fl that was not covered by comprehensive zoning and deed restrictions. Drive outside the Bubble into surrounding counties and see the mess that surrounds us

Reading some of his responses (calling my arguments "rightwing strawmen" among them) it seems that he's uncomfortable with a Republican calling the shots on property that he has developed at his own risk (taking it initially from his father who was not doing well at all selling lots) and selling it to people who are voluntarily willing to enter into those restrictions. If Mr. Morse was a Democrat running the CDD's he would probably be OK with it.

I currently live in a house within a homeowners' association. They are becoming the norm rather than the exception. They have their issues and are not for everyone. I may decide when I get closer to retirement that the rules and regulations for TV are not for me either. If so, I will stay where I am or move someplace more to my liking. But I will not criticize those who develop property with covenants nor those who choose to buy therein.

[janmcn]

S/he is probably underwater on the property and can't sell without taking an unsustainable financial loss.

If you had read all the posts, you would have read that the poster is a caregiver for a parent so financial loss probably has nothing to do with leaving or staying. Also, the poster is younger than most residents and would probably prefer a place a little more hip where they could attend a Bruce Springsteen concert instead of Danny and the Juniors and maybe wants to do some top shelf shopping, something TV doesn't have. Just guessing. Those are the biggest complaints I hear about TV - no good entertainment and no good shopping.

[graciegirl]

If you had read all the posts, you would have read that the poster is a caregiver for a parent so financial loss probably has nothing to do with leaving or staying. Also, the poster is younger than most residents and would probably prefer a place a little more hip where they could attend a Bruce Springsteen concert instead of Danny and the Juniors and maybe wants to do some top shelf shopping, something TV doesn't have. Just guessing. Those are the biggest complaints I hear about TV - no good entertainment and no good shopping.

ah yes. But think about 135 bucks a month for golf. To ME that is top entertainment.

[Taltarzac725]

If you had read all the posts, you would have read that the poster is a caregiver for a parent so financial loss probably has nothing to do with leaving or staying. Also, the poster is younger than most residents and would probably prefer a place a little more hip where they could attend a Bruce Springsteen concert instead of Danny and the Juniors and maybe wants to do some top shelf shopping, something TV doesn't have. Just guessing. Those are the biggest complaints I hear about TV - no good entertainment and no good shopping.

Orlando is very close. I know some people who actually work somewhere in Orlando and commute back-and-forth from the Villages.

I do often miss things which are only offered in bigger metros like Shakespeare Plays and other first run theater experiences, concerts of current Number One artists, and the like. Cannot say I miss all the traffic though I would find in a place like San Francisco, LA, Denver, or Minneapolis getting to these events.

One good thing about the Villages, we do not have a FOX news station here. That might be a yet though.

[jsw14]

Orlando is very close. I know some people who actually work somewhere in Orlando and commute back-and-forth from the Villages.

I do often miss things which are only offered in bigger metros like Shakespeare Plays and other first run theater experiences, concerts of current Number One artists, and the like. Cannot say I miss all the traffic though I would find in a place like San Francisco, LA, Denver, or Minneapolis getting to these events.

One good thing about the Villages, we do not have a FOX news station here. That might be a yet though.

Hmmmm, what does News have to do with entertainment??:shrug:

[Bogie Shooter]

Hmmmm, what does News have to do with entertainment??:shrug:

Its the same thing at Fox News.

[bimmertl]

ah yes. But think about 135 bucks a month for golf. To ME that is top entertainment.

Bet the non golfers don't think it's such a great deal!

[BobKat1]

It's hard not to notice that politics is always bubbling just beneath the surface in so many threads here on TOTV, and the slightest comment or observation wiil set off the usual political back and forth.

Question: Is it that way throughout TV or mainly an internet thing here on TOTV?

I ask because it would really be unpleasant to my wife and I if it were that way throughout TV with neighbors, friends and aquantances etc.

We both could care less what people's politjcal leanings are and frankly don't need or want to know.

I hope in the big picture of things that it's not an issue. Done with rant.

[Moderator]

This thread has become hopelessly off topic and entirely too political and will be closed.

To new members, all political topics and partisan discussions and arguments are not allowed in the main forum. There is a separate opt-in political subforum where more free wheeling discussion can be found.

Also, please discuss the topic at hand and avoid making personal comments to and about other members.

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