Developers Responsibility RE Sinkholes and Disclosures

[jackz]

I posted the following yesterday in the Ask Legal and after never hearing back from Legal, I am posting in the general forums so I can hear from other residents.

Would appreciate your input:

Original Post:



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We put a deposit on a lot in Sanibel in Sept 2011 and are scheduled to start our build in early Sept 2012.

When we signed our agreement for the lot there was no information about sinkholes in the area as it was new.

Last week a large sinkhole opened up on the lot next to ours.

What is the Delelopers responsibility regarding disclosing this info and any new options to us?

Could we withdraw our offer based on this new information?

Thanks

[rubicon]

I believe your answer to these questions is going to be found in the contract that you signed....and of course as lawyers will tell you contracts were made to be broken. having said that it would appear that a builder would be unable to build a home on a lot that was not solid because he would obviously end up eating it all. I can't imagine the Developer would allow the house to be built until it was confirmed that the lot was solid. also there are insurance implications here because the insurance company is going to make claim against anyone and everyone if damage should ensue

Perhaps this event is a good thing because you have an oppotunity to ensure the lot is solid. I would also believe that since Florida was the state were " they are selling you swamp land" became national that Florida has laws against such things.

My ister-in-law had a huge sink hole and she knew it was coming because her neighbors also experienced the same thing. So you are wise in building a good defense and not making any assumptions

Good Luck

[jimbo2012]

Could we withdraw our offer based on this new information?



I would say yes.

Others on this forum have changed lots, just because they found one they liked better.

I would not withdraw or cancel your contract (which I think U can also based on a geological change which just occurred.)
Keep your build date and plans to move etc.

There R about 400+ lots to switch to and keep your build date, of course if if you don't get agreement to do this contact a lawyer.

I read something in Fl law "Specifically, knowledge of a sink hole on an adjoining lot has been held to constitute a material fact which must be disclosed to a potential buyer". Meaning there is case law on this issue.

Your sales rep should get back to U with answer asap.

Don't depend on on phone calls use faxes, email, certified letters to keep a paper trail.

[2 Oldcrabs]

If you make enough "noise" they will change your lot. Getting your money back is a whole other question. When we had a problem with what was happening with the Rec ctr A/C unit, we asked for our money back several times. The answer was NO REFUNDS. After some unfriendly discussion, they agreed to move us and build on another lot. You could "sue" but, the developer has deep pockets and your "playing in his ball park".:mad:

[tucson]

I posted the following yesterday in the Ask Legal and after never hearing back from Legal, I am posting in the general forums so I can hear from other residents.

Would appreciate your input:

Original Post:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We put a deposit on a lot in Sanibel in Sept 2011 and are scheduled to start our build in early Sept 2012.

When we signed our agreement for the lot there was no information about sinkholes in the area as it was new.

Last week a large sinkhole opened up on the lot next to ours.

What is the Delelopers responsibility regarding disclosing this info and any new options to us?

Could we withdraw our offer based on this new information?

Thanks

Yes and yes. It's a law that sellers have to disclose all negatives regarding real estate issues.

[graciegirl]

This is NOT directed at JackZ the original poster.. This is my general view. I have changed my post becaue it was pointed out that it sounded harsh, and it did. JackZ is one of my favorite posters and has a very reasonable concern.

I am sure that the developers will follow all disclosure laws. They are too big and too successful to circumvent the law. They don't need to. What is one lot to them?

I would expect the developers to do the right thing. That said.

They are running a for profit business and they aren't anyone's mom. In the past I have read about people who were angry because they missed the four percent discount by a few days etc. We missed a $20,000 discount on the lot we bought by a couple of weeks. If they do it for one, they have to do it for all. This is a different situation entirely.

When a person signs to buy it is a legal binding contract but if an enormous change occurs such as being underwater etc, it seems that would be alter the situation

JackZ
Why not call and ask? The person to begin the conversation with is your sales rep.

That is MY opinion after having lived here for four years and listening and reading and watching what has happened in that time to us and to others. I feel that JackZ will have his interests protected. Bad publicity would harm the developer.

(I think JackZ may be still out of the country and in different time zone to have a direct conversation on phone with sales rep)

.

[Bogie Shooter]

I posted the following yesterday in the Ask Legal and after never hearing back from Legal, I am posting in the general forums so I can hear from other residents.

Would appreciate your input:

Original Post:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We put a deposit on a lot in Sanibel in Sept 2011 and are scheduled to start our build in early Sept 2012.

When we signed our agreement for the lot there was no information about sinkholes in the area as it was new.

Last week a large sinkhole opened up on the lot next to ours.

What is the Delelopers responsibility regarding disclosing this info and any new options to us?

Could we withdraw our offer based on this new information?

Thanks

My question to you is, What was the developer's response to your concern's?

[jackz]

Have emailed sales rep yesterday, awaiting response.

[hotrodgirl]

I believe that until you have your design team meeting and give your 20% deposit, you may change your mind and either switch lots, purchase a spec home or a resale that is listed with TV. I actually did switch lots shortly after my initial deposit of 7500.00 solely based of the fact that I liked it better! No hassle, no problem. My agent drew up the necessary papers and all was done via e-mail. I don't believe you need to worry if you wish to change.

[jimbo2012]

hrg, that's great first hand info for Jack, but even if you put your 20% down & construction didn't begin it should not be an issue.

But what if construction began.......time for more aggravation I suppose.

[Villages PL]

This may seem too simplistic but it seems to me the developer is in the business of selling "buildable" lots. If a sinkhole opens up next door, it's highly questionable as to whether it continues to be buildable. I would say it's not, at least not in the near future, until time proves the hole is not getting bigger.

[hotrodgirl]

But what if construction began.......time for more aggravation I suppose.

If construction had already begun, the developer or builder would be responsible as you would have not closed and would have no Homeowner's insurance yet. They would either have to repair to spec,or offer a new lot I would think. If you had a close date of 3 weeks out, would they not have to do so? Perhaps extend that date and offer something back perhaps?

[asianthree]

I don't think anyone from legal if going to give you an answer

[Barefoot]

Have emailed sales rep yesterday, awaiting response.

Jack, please keep us in the loop. It must be tough trying to get answers when you're on the other side of the globe! It's a well know fact that the Developer likes Happy Home Owners. I doubt you'll have a problem changing lots.

[rjm1cc]

Good question. I have the same question and just started working on the answer. I think the person selling the property is a licensed real estate salesman and has to answer your questions but does not have to disclose anything else for a building lot. I asked the sinkhole question of a few salesmen, knowing about specific sinkholes, and do not think they really answered my question but assuming they probably meet the legal requirements. One option would be to check with the County building inspector. On a more practical matter I would ask for a new lot and avoid anything near a water features.

[CarGuys]

I believe that until you have your design team meeting and give your 20% deposit, you may change your mind and either switch lots, purchase a spec home or a resale that is listed with TV. I actually did switch lots shortly after my initial deposit of 7500.00 solely based of the fact that I liked it better! No hassle, no problem. My agent drew up the necessary papers and all was done via e-mail. I don't believe you need to worry if you wish to change.

If you cannot make your build date and the one year date goes by you forfeit that lot and the money down goes to another lot plus a additional deposit which goes into escrow against the new home. Or correct me if wrong all?

[hotrodgirl]

I believe that is the way my agent explained it to me. You would not lose your initial 7500 unless you decided not to build at all...

[justjim]

We were told by our sales Rep. that if we wanted to change lots prior to building that it would be "no problem". We built in Sanibel. Just a thought-----The developer has a LOT of dirt/sand moved around prior to laying out a Village and some of these so called "sinkholes" could be settling from all the dirt that was moved around. I'm no engineer but common sense tells me that is a real possibility.

[bobdel]

Question on the Sanibel sinkhole. What street/address was this on?

[2 Oldcrabs]

I believe that is the way my agent explained it to me. You would not lose your initial 7500 unless you decided not to build at all...

They will apply your money to another another lot, spec house and I think a resale, if they have the listing. Unless thinks have changed in the last year, NO Refunds. There have been cases where people have starting building and something "happens" medically or back home and people lose their deposit or go to settlement and then put the house up for sale. You will see a few "never lived in" for sale. :sad:

[Cedwards38]

Sinkhole in Sanibel? Does anyone know the location (street address) of this Sanibel Sinkhole? Thanks.

[janmcn]

Sinkhole in Sanibel? Does anyone know the location (street address) of this Sanibel Sinkhole? Thanks.

According to another thread, the sinkhole was on Fenwick Loop, no lot number mentioned.

[GatorFan]

Will they still sell that lot to another buyer who does not know a sinkhole was on the lot next to it?

[asianthree]

Will they still sell that lot to another buyer who does not know a sinkhole was on the lot next to it?

good question

[Bogie Shooter]

Question has been asked on other threads.............maybe you can find the answer there.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sinkholes-displace-two-villages-homeowners-55844/

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sanibel-fenwick-loop-washout-ground-collapse-55610/

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/new-sinkhole-st-james-edenville-path-55594/

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/potential-buyer-sinkhole-suggestion-55698/

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/sinkhole-photos-ashland-55247/

There are more threads..........enjoy

[buzzy]

Drove by Fenwick today. Sinkhole is filled in on the empty lot, and the spot in the street is filled in and paved over.

[asianthree]

so do you think you can get insurance on that lot?

[bobdel]

Not sure if the location of the Sanibel sink hole was but i would like to know street location. Thanks

[graciegirl]

Will they still sell that lot to another buyer who does not know a sinkhole was on the lot next to it?

The developers are not dumb nor have I seen any reason to distrust them. They have a solid business based on pleasing the customer and they know how we villagers all communicate.

The answer to your question in my mind is I seriously doubt it , plus they must follow all disclosure laws.

[Opulence]

I posted the following yesterday in the Ask Legal and after never hearing back from Legal, I am posting in the general forums so I can hear from other residents.

Would appreciate your input:

Original Post:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We put a deposit on a lot in Sanibel in Sept 2011 and are scheduled to start our build in early Sept 2012.

When we signed our agreement for the lot there was no information about sinkholes in the area as it was new.

Last week a large sinkhole opened up on the lot next to ours.

What is the Delelopers responsibility regarding disclosing this info and any new options to us?

Could we withdraw our offer based on this new information?

Thanks

It's almost 2 weeks since your original post inquiring as to the Developers responsibility RE Sinkholes and Disclosures. Have you had a response back from your agent, whom you mentioned that you contacted regarding same? I certainly hope you have an response back/answer after all this time and ask if you would mind sharing it with the rest of us. Thanks.

Betty

[jackz]

I did hear back from our agent and was informed that the $7500 deposit on our lot could be transfered to another lot or a Spec Home with no problem.

Also did more research on the event and received assurances re: stability of our lot to build on as well as additional information about the fact that the area that had the problem had drainage pipes leading to the retention pond which may have failed and contributed to the problem.

The area was repaired and I have determined that it will not be a problem having our home/lot insured.

We have till the end of August when we have our designer appt to decide to build on the current waterfront lot or elsewhere. At this point we are leaning towards staying with our lot.

Thanks to all for comments and feedback.

[Opulence]

I did hear back from our agent and was informed that the $7500 deposit on our lot could be transfered to another lot or a Spec Home with no problem.

Also did more research on the event and received assurances re: stability of our lot to build on as well as additional information about the fact that the area that had the problem had drainage pipes leading to the retention pond which may have failed and contributed to the problem.

The area was repaired and I have determined that it will not be a problem having our home/lot insured.

We have till the end of August when we have our designer appt to decide to build on the current waterfront lot or elsewhere. At this point we are leaning towards staying with our lot.

Thanks to all for comments and feedback.



Well that's wonderful news. How very reassuring to learn that your have choices if so desired and that it is not a major issue, as I assume you first thought it could be. :beer3: Wishing you the best.

Betty

[Vic&Judy]

I did hear back from our agent and was informed that the $7500 deposit on our lot could be transfered to another lot or a Spec Home with no problem.

Also did more research on the event and received assurances re: stability of our lot to build on as well as additional information about the fact that the area that had the problem had drainage pipes leading to the retention pond which may have failed and contributed to the problem.

The area was repaired and I have determined that it will not be a problem having our home/lot insured.

We have till the end of August when we have our designer appt to decide to build on the current waterfront lot or elsewhere. At this point we are leaning towards staying with our lot.

Thanks to all for comments and feedback.

That's great news!!! Having a choice will certainly relieve pressure. The fact that this problem, whatever caused it has been apparently remediated is important, since the risk of this type of event is throughout the Villages and could occur on any lot you might choose.

I'm one of your potential new neighbors across the road on Fenwick and wish you the best of luck in your decision and the subsequent building process.

Vic

[Barefoot]

I did hear back from our agent and was informed that the $7500 deposit on our lot could be transfered to another lot or a Spec Home with no problem.

We have till the end of August when we have our designer appt to decide to build on the current waterfront lot or elsewhere. At this point we are leaning towards staying with our lot. Thanks to all for comments and feedback.

Congratulations on getting clarification of this situation. I'm not surprised that the Developer is cooperative. I've yet to see anyone being treated unfairly by the Powers That Be.