Two couple ownership

[eweissenbach]

Has anyone on the forum owned a home in TV with another couple? We came for our lifestyle preview two years ago in April 2010, and after getting our dates asked some good friends of ours if they would like to join us. We enjoyed our LSP together so much that we decided to rent together in April 2011 (both couples had obligations that did not allow us to get away earlier that year). We then decided to rent again in February and March of this year together. The two men like to play golf and pickleball, have a few drinks, go to the squares, barbeque, and eat out. The women like to do zumba, and yoga, and dance classes and go to the squares and eat out. We all agree that we are not likely to ever be interested in full time residency, as we have family elsewhere. We are compatable in our religion, our politics, and generally just get along perfectly without getting on each others nerves (not an easy relationship to find in my experience.) We have talked for the last two years about going together and purchasing a three bedroom home which we could share sometimes, and stay seperately sometimes. We would, of course, need a buy and sell agreement to allow either party to opt out of the partnership, or determine disposition of the property at the death of any party. One of the upsides to this is obviously, financial - the price of the property would be split, as would the normal expenses and taxes. Another upside we have found is the ability to have a golf or pickleball partner at the ready as well as a partner in all the other activities in which we want to get involved.

Again, if anyone has had experience with this type of arrangement, good or bad, I would like to hear about it, or if you have any insights or thoughts fire away.

[graciegirl]

I. being old and observant, would not share my home ownership with anyone who did not give birth to one of us or I did not give birth to.

In business I would frequently do business with people in partnership and rarely did a business partnership work past five years.

[asianthree]

i agree even business partners can change over time. i would not be a fan

[Indy-Guy]

I have met two couples who did this the guys are cousins. It worked out great other than when the kids and grand kids came down as they were all wanted to come at the same times since they grand kids were all in the same school system with the same schedules. But for the adults only it worked out great. They have since sold the first place and both couples purchased side by side villas and now all the kids and grand kids come and all enjoy The Villages together.

[asianthree]

if you rented out does all four resident passes have to be turned in?

[jnieman]

The only problem I could see happening is what if one couple uses it way more than the other couple and then the other couple can see that they are not getting their fair share. Maybe if you each had to pay so much money each time you used it and that money goes into a pot to split?

[eweissenbach]

if you rented out does all four resident passes have to be turned in?

We don't plan to rent it out

The only problem I could see happening is what if one couple uses it way more than the other couple and then the other couple can see that they are not getting their fair share. Maybe if you each had to pay so much money each time you used it and that money goes into a pot to split?

We have discussed this and don't see it as a problem. We each have in mind staying Jan thru April and at least a couple months otherwise. If anything becomes a problem that cannot be overcome, the buy-sell agreement would state that the party that wants out can announce their interest in selling - the other party would have 30 days to either buy out the other party at the appraisal price or a price otherwise agreed upon, or agree to put it on the open market for sale.

As for Gracie's familial concern, I would rather do this with this particular couple than with any other party, including siblings, children or other relatives. This is an unusually compatable relationship - unlike any other I can think of.

[asianthree]

sounds like you have it figured out...enjoy

[rubicon]

Since amenities are charged per household it means those households that double up are getting double the pleasure and double the fun for 1/2 the costs. It means retirement homes in The Villages are being treated as time shares in some cases also. As The Villages grow this type of arrangement will show to have a negative and materially affect on amenities. It also means that the single home concept is negated. Now add to that the fact that people buy homes here as rental only and upward of three couples share this rental at the same time. So much for the illusion of a retirement community we are moving to a resort concept.

[eweissenbach]

Since amenities are charged per household it means those households that double up are getting double the pleasure and double the fun for 1/2 the costs. It means retirement homes in The Villages are being treated as time shares in some cases also. As The Villages grow this type of arrangement will show to have a negative and materially affect on amenities. It also means that the single home concept is negated

That could become a slight concern, but I think it is overstated. We inquired about the amenities and were told that one amenity fee would accomidate everyone on the deed with a resident pass. We were hoping and expecting that we could each get a resident pass by paying double amenity fees. We were not looking for a "free - or half-price ride", and were surprised with that answer. Perhaps the powers that be will rethink that, and I would be fine with it if they did. I don't think it is fair to characterize our intent as somehow "cheating" other residents. After all, if four of us stay an average of six months each, and pay the monthly amenity fee, it will be relatively the same usage of amenities as a couple who stays twelve months.

[jimbo2012]

Ed, you almost can look at this like pre-nup agreement, just layout the possibilities, the 4 you sit with a lawyer for a bit sign, enjoy.

[eweissenbach]

Ed, you almost can look at this like pre-nup agreement, just layout the possibilities, the 4 you sit with a lawyer for a bit sign, enjoy.

U R correct. I am a Charted Financial Consultant, and have worked with attorneys on buy and sell agreements for thrirty years. Anticipating every contingency and having a procedure to handle it is the only way to enter into a partnership of this kind. Rosey Scenario makes a great date, but she can turn into a disaster come closing time.

[Posh 08]

Plain and simple. Don't do it. Only one women under one roof.

[asianthree]

best case you become even better friends, worst case you hate each other in the end....only time will tell

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Ed, you're an intelligent individual. Do what you feel is best for you and the others involved - look at all the facts and all sides of the equation (which I believe you have) and then go with your gut.

Bill :)

[elbear]

Two heads make a monster.

[eweissenbach]

Two heads make a monster.

You have apparently had some very bad experiences - that is too bad.

[eweissenbach]

Ed, you're an intelligent individual. Do what you feel is best for you and the others involved - look at all the facts and all sides of the equation (which I believe you have) and then go with your gut.

Bill :)


Thanks Bill - I will.:popcorn:

[Mama C]

i have always heard not to do business with family or fiends

[eweissenbach]

i have always heard not to do business with family or fiends

LMAO: Not sure if that was on purpose or accidental or a Freudian slip, but I will definitely avoid doing business with fiends. :a20::a20:

[l2ridehd]

One issue that you will need to address is master bedroom usage. Most homes have a large master bedroom with en suite bathroom. Guest bedrooms and bathrooms are very small with small closets. So who gets to sleep where when both couples are there for 3 or 4 months? Also I have been told each home only gets two resident ID's. Who gets those? Two golf carts and two cars? Need a large home with a very large garage. Probably a premier with a three car garage.

A better solution would be to each buy a smaller home very close together, even side by side. Two patio villas or two courtyard villas. Even two small ranch homes side by side or on the same street. Also give you lots of extra space for other friends and family.

[graciegirl]

One issue that you will need to address is master bedroom usage. Most homes have a large master bedroom with en suite bathroom. Guest bedrooms and bathrooms are very small with small closets. So who gets to sleep where when both couples are there for 3 or 4 months? Also I have been told each home only gets two resident ID's. Who gets those? Two golf carts and two cars? Need a large home with a very large garage. Probably a premier with a three car garage.

A better solution would be to each buy a smaller home very close together, even side by side. Two patio villas or two courtyard villas. Even two small ranch homes side by side or on the same street. Also give you lots of extra space for other friends and family.


That is a good solution. We had friends, two couples, who together bought a cabin at the lake. They got along fine there, but the kids would come and bring friends and they would not take good care of it and that caused tension. If someone spills wine or coffee on the furniture it usually can be fixed if attended to right away but not if it is set in and dried for weeks....as an example. Or if one couple would arrive to find that the beds weren't changed and stuff was left in the refrigerator and the blinds weren't pulled. or the water wasn't turned off, or the door left unlocked...it is hard to express criticism of another's kids or guests.

I think the side by side or near each other idea is a very good thing to consider. I think anyone could get along with you Coach Ed, and I know you choose like friends, but think and think again on this.

Familiarity breeds contempt.Plus....

What if one couple never puts a new toilet paper roll in? When you're older, little things mean a lot. ;)

[rubicon]

That could become a slight concern, but I think it is overstated. We inquired about the amenities and were told that one amenity fee would accomidate everyone on the deed with a resident pass. We were hoping and expecting that we could each get a resident pass by paying double amenity fees. We were not looking for a "free - or half-price ride", and were surprised with that answer. Perhaps the powers that be will rethink that, and I would be fine with it if they did. I don't think it is fair to characterize our intent as somehow "cheating" other residents. After all, if four of us stay an average of six months each, and pay the monthly amenity fee, it will be relatively the same usage of amenities as a couple who stays twelve months.

eweissenbach: My apology. My remarks were not directed toward you or anyone. However you have drawn on a sensative area for me because from my view any such arrangements threaten the original intent of TV being a retirement community. The Developer has shown his propensity to make TV a resort style sort of draw and I for one feel retirees will be lost in the shuffle.

[mulligan]

Methinks the developer needs to look closely at this issue. If everyone on the deed gets an ID, we could have group ownership, and a whole new set of nightmares with lower degrees of vested interest by owners.

[2BNTV]

Ed:

It sounds like you thought long and hard on living together with this couple.
Have you been on trips before where you shared acomendations? Was it totally harmonious?

I have a friend that is like a brother to me and stay at his house once in a while. We are totally harmonious and never have any problems. BTW - He's married.

It sounds like a win win situation that you are going into with your eyes wide open. I say go for it.

[cathyw]

Ed,
It seems that you have thought this thru and have tested the waters by living with each other for a two month stretch already. Since it worked for you, I say " Go For It" You are very lucky to have found such a good friendship.

[eweissenbach]

One issue that you will need to address is master bedroom usage. Most homes have a large master bedroom with en suite bathroom. Guest bedrooms and bathrooms are very small with small closets. So who gets to sleep where when both couples are there for 3 or 4 months? Also I have been told each home only gets two resident ID's. Who gets those? Two golf carts and two cars? Need a large home with a very large garage. Probably a premier with a three car garage.

A better solution would be to each buy a smaller home very close together, even side by side. Two patio villas or two courtyard villas. Even two small ranch homes side by side or on the same street. Also give you lots of extra space for other friends and family.

The master bedroom is a concern, and we have thought about it a lot. When we stayed in an Iris this year we simply switched the bedrooms after the first month. One of our criteria for a home is a good second bedroom and bath - some homes have a large master and the second bedroom is way too small. We have considered having a Zinnia built, which has essentially two master bedrooms. The garage issue could be problematic, but we have looked at two-car plus gc garages, and even three car garages with an adequate lot. Leaving one car out is not beyond consideration, since my car has not been in a garage for nine years. As for the resident passes, we checked on that early on and were told that all four would get resident passes if we were all on the deed. Two seperate places would be possible but we have pretty well settled on the sharing of one as ideal for us. Since neither of us plan to be there anywhere near full time, we feel the cost sharing of taxes, utilities, cable, etc. when not there makes sense for us as long as we can get along.

[eweissenbach]

Ed,
It seems that you have thought this thru and have tested the waters by living with each other for a two month stretch already. Since it worked for you, I say " Go For It" You are very lucky to have found such a good friendship.

This is, of course, the key. We have gone on vacations with other friends and family members many times over the years, and by the time we got back were ready to strangle each other. We are so compatible with this couple that we hate to leave when the time comes. My wife and the lady have been friends since they were infants and are both very easygoing and loving, and like the same activities. Myself and the gentlemen have been friends since college and both like to go to bed and get up about the same time, have eerily similar belief systems, similar senses of humor, and like to do the same things. We have stayed together in TV three times now - first for a six day LSP in 2010, a month in Summerhill in 2011, and two months in Hemingway in 2012. We already have a place rented for Feb and Mar for 2013.

[cgalloway6]

Since you are both familiar with renting, why not one couple buy the house and rent to the other? Would make tax time easier(one couple getting the deductions, rather than splitting interest and property taxes to the satisfaction of IRS) and also parting ways if at some point things don't work out.

[cathyw]

I know of people who rent every year together and have this problem. They have decided that odd years, one person gets the master bedroom and even years, the other. It seems to work for them.

[asianthree]

its like you found soul mates, that's hard to find happy house finding

[jimbo2012]

Bedroom issue can be resolved by designing the house with two masters.

This can be done on new designer or re-sale by remodeling.

But it is easier on a new build with the right floor plan to start.

One example is the Ivy the two from bedrooms can be redesigned into one, then one master in in the rear one in the front with a bedroom inbween for more privacy.

I'm sure there are others that lend themselves as weel.

[Jim 9922]

Go for it!. We've partnered with another family on 2 vacation lake homes over the years. Never had a problem even including a combined 7 children.
In fact, 2 of the son's families (one from each side) have combined to buy out one of our properties and continue using it with their 2 families.
One word of caution, you really have to know and trust your partners whole families to make it work!

From the business end I suggest that the property be held in a corporate-type of entity so that you are isolated from liabilities that could arise from the property itself or the the actions of your partner family (i.e golf cart accident in joint owned cart). AND BUY ADEQUATE LIABILITY INSURANCE

I would also include a "drop dead" buyers clause in your agreement. If you decide to sell or break up the partnership and one partner wants the property, an offer is made, but the other party has the right to buy that propery from the offering partner at that price and terms, no negotiations.
It is amazing how fair that offer becomes when the offerer has a good chance of losing it. And, it avoids appraisers, legal fights, etc.

To your future partnership!:beer3:

[eweissenbach]

Go for it!. We've partnered with another family on 2 vacation lake homes over the years. Never had a problem even including a combined 7 children.
In fact, 2 of the son's families (one from each side) have combined to buy out one of our properties and continue using it with their 2 families.
One word of caution, you really have to know and trust your partners whole families to make it work!

From the business end I suggest that the property be held in a corporate-type of entity so that you are isolated from liabilities that could arise from the property itself or the the actions of your partner family (i.e golf cart accident in joint owned cart). AND BUY ADEQUATE LIABILITY INSURANCE

I would also include a "drop dead" buyers clause in your agreement. If you decide to sell or break up the partnership and one partner wants the property, an offer is made, but the other party has the right to buy that propery from the offering partner at that price and terms, no negotiations.
It is amazing how fair that offer becomes when the offerer has a good chance of losing it. And, it avoids appraisers, legal fights, etc.

To your future partnership!:beer3:

Good advice Jim, thanks!

[janmcn]

The real test for your friendships will come when four people have to decide what upgrades you want in your new house. Spending as much time looking at homes and talking it over while vacationing next year would be a good starting point, then when the time comes to build, you'll know what you want.

[rubicon]

methinks the developer needs to look closely at this issue. If everyone on the deed gets an id, we could have group ownership, and a whole new set of nightmares with lower degrees of vested interest by owners.

bingo!

[eweissenbach]

The real test for your friendships will come when four people have to decide what upgrades you want in your new house. Spending as much time looking at homes and talking it over while vacationing next year would be a good starting point, then when the time comes to build, you'll know what you want.

We have already had those discussions, and even priced out a few options on a designer Zinnia with our agent. When looking at resales we almost always agree on whether it would be a possibility at the right price if we were in the market. If anyone does not like it we will not buy it.

[Pookirgirl]

Yes...we did it with friends. The agreement was everything was split down the middle for expenses and if one person wanted out...the other could either buy them out or we would sell it. As this was not going to be our "forever" home, none of us were ready for retirement, we opted to make this purchase for our future vacations here until that time. We did place it into Property Management for a while but we were not thrilled with their policies. We actually had to pay them money to use our own home. We went with a private property management person who did not and her percentage for managing was almost half of TV. After two years, we agreed to sell the home.