Results of ignoring Modified Phase III Restrictions

[Sparty6971]

This issue has been touched upon a little but I asked for and received more info from the Regulatory folks at the water conservancy district that covers Sumter County (most of The Villages). A couple of days ago my lawn care company visited to check my irrigation system since the grass is starting to look a bit over-stressed. The technician said it was working fine but he on his own volition changed the Hunter Controller to irrigate twice per week. I said no that can't happen since we are under a Modified Phase III restriction now which limits us to only once per week. The technician said not to worry about that, every one irrigates at least a couple of times a week and anyway it's my lawn, not the water conservancy people's lawn. Well, I told him to set it back to the legal restriction settings. Does anyone else remember the television show in the late 50s that usually ended with Mom saying to the kid, "Two wrongs don't make a right"? I wrote to the water conservancy to find out what the results would be if I were caught violating the restrictions. Here is the email I just received today (July 17).

"If the irrigation company is adjusting the systems to water on the wrong day and/or time, it would ultimately be the responsibility of the homeowner to have the system readjusted or risk a fine of up to $500 (for each occurrence). If the technician caused the fine, by adjusting the system to water incorrectly, then the technician or the technician�s company may be responsible in a civil proceeding. If you would like to provide us with the company name and address, we are willing to send a letter, letting them know that they causing their customers to risk a fine by adjusting their irrigation systems incorrectly. If you should have any additional questions or concerns, please reply to this email or call us at 1-800-848-0499."

I know a lot of TOTV people will blow this off as "It is my lawn and it costs a lot more than $500 to replace the grass." I won't argue with that but I'll bet if you get caught once, you will be reinspected often again. Just saying. . .

[mulligan]

Thanks for the info BUT, I have a problem with them putting my lawn at risk while at the same time allowing continuing new construction. New construction means additional potable water hookups, new landscaping needing daily watering to survive, and new golf courses needing millions of gallons every day. This does not even consider the 3,500 unit apartment complex being built at the intersection of powell rd. and 466a. If the water supply is critical enough to jeopardize my investment, stop the new construction NOW.

[skip0358]

I know there's a restriction but here's a question? If you water at night who's going to check? And if a water 1 day for a total of 2 hours or twice a week for a total of 2 hours, what's the difference?

[aljetmet]

Wonder if drilling a well would be worth while.

[Bill-n-Brillo]

Wonder if drilling a well would be worth while.

No can do - wording specific to "no wells" is in the deed restrictions.

Bill :)

[Sparty6971]

I hear you both and can't / won't argue the merits of the restrictions. And who will know if you are watering if you do it at night (which almost everyone does)? Beats me but anyone can report a violation - even anonymously. I'm just saying at $500 a pop everyone needs to make their own decision. If we're lucky the current watering restriction will be allowed to expire the end of this month, or at least it will be lowered to a less restrictive level as it was previously and we can at least go back to twice a week just like those in Lake County can already do.

Oops! Thanks jblum315. Yes, I meant twice a week not twice a day. :)

[jblum315]

I hear you both and can't / won't argue the merits of the restrictions. And who will know if you are watering if you do it at night (which almost everyone does)? Beats me but anyone can report a violation - even anonymously. I'm just saying at $500 a pop everyone needs to make their own decision. If we're lucky the current watering restriction will be allowed to expire the end of this month, or at least it will be lowered to a less restrictive level as it was previously and we can at least go back to twice a day just like those in Lake County can already do.

You meant to say twice a week, didn't you?

[graciegirl]

Has anyone reading this forum heard of anyone having to pay the five hundred bucks?

I have heard of people saying they got a warning. If we didn't restrict ourselves somewhat, than it would be bad for all of us.

You can water stuff with your hose at anytime. Most of the yards are small enough to keep things from dying if you would sprinkle them with your hose.

[jimbo2012]

A few operative words I see.

risk a fine of up to $500

Risk means it may or may not occur.

Up to can mean a dollar > $500

My guess is a repeat offender may get fine higher than a first timer.

Also you have a chance to pled your case and argue many issues.

Water your lawn IMO.

[batman911]

Two words: Soaker hoses

[jimbo2012]

Two words: Soaker hoses

one word: invisible :thumbup:

[applesoffh]

Thanks for the info BUT, I have a problem with them putting my lawn at risk while at the same time allowing continuing new construction. New construction means additional potable water hookups, new landscaping needing daily watering to survive, and new golf courses needing millions of gallons every day. This does not even consider the 3,500 unit apartment complex being built at the intersection of powell rd. and 466a. If the water supply is critical enough to jeopardize my investment, stop the new construction NOW.

EXCELLENT post...and, really, it doesn't get truer than this!

[graciegirl]

EXCELLENT post...and, really, it doesn't get truer than this!

Stopping the new construction wouldn't be good for the people who work on the houses and for us in general. It adds value to all of our homes as long as the construction continues. We wouldn't want to wish to live in a place where things just dried up, literally and figuratively.

At least that is how it looks to me. The ban on watering, by the way is a state wide situation and we are in the St. Johns River water management district .http://www.sjrwmd.com/ So it is a situation that is not just limited here in TV.

PLUS...let us be realistic. Drive around TV, nothing is dying. It rains practically every day in the summer.

Don't I remember a post from you saying the developers were "hypocrites" when the sprinklers were running during the heavy rain of tropical storm Debby to keep down the danger of flooding? It takes a while living here, at least a year, to see that everything is pretty much run alright. Maybe a lot better than alright.

[gmcneill]

A response to the statement, who is going to catch you if you water at night?

Just saying: I've seen white vcdd pickup trucks driving through the 'hood here in St James well after midnight, on more than one occasion.

[Down Sized]

Has anyone else noticed while driving around you see sprinklers running at all times during the day. Several even at 3 & 4 in the afternoon. Late afternoon and evening hours will likely cause a fungus in your yard, if done regularly During the day- watering, lot of the water will evaporate. The inspector for my house set the timer for 1am. He said at that time setting i shouldn't have a fungus problem. The sun will dry the grass early morning. I'm talking about residential yards.

[Bogie Shooter]

Two words: Soaker hoses

those are not allowed either.

Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/PdfView/PdfView.aspx?path='/PdfUpload/Water) Shortage Order Information.pdf'&ql=standard

The Southwest Florida Water Management District�s Governing Board issued a
Modified Phase III Water Shortage that took effect on March 10, 2012 for the
northern counties. The order restricts residential and commercial irrigation of
lawns and landscaping to one-day-per-week. In addition to residents and
commercial facilities in Sumter County, the restrictions also apply to residents
and commercial facilities in the Marion County portion of The Villages as their
water is supplied by facilities regulated by SWFWMD.
The following is a summary of the restrictions.
 Lawn and landscape irrigation may only occur before 8 a.m. or after 6 p.m.
on the designated once-per-week watering schedule.
 Handwatering or microirrigation of non-lawn landscape can be done any
day, but only before 8 a.m. or after 6 p.m.
 Certain exemptions are available, such as allowances for new plant
material.
 Car washing is limited to once per week on the designated watering days
as shown below.
 Fountains and other aesthetic-only water features may only operate 4
hours per day.
 Pressure washing is only allowed for necessary purposes, such as prior to
painting or sealing. Aesthetic concerns do not constitute a �necessary�
purpose.
Addresses with �house numbers� �. May only irrigate on �
Ending in 0 or 1 Monday
Ending in 2 or 3 Tuesday
Ending in 4 or 5 Wednesday
Ending in 6 or 7 Thursday
Ending in 8 or 9 Friday
All customers must modify their irrigation timer to only irrigate once per week in
accordance with the above table. For complete details or to ask questions about
these restrictions, visit the Southwest Florida Water Management

[asianthree]

they know when you over water you get a letter in the mail that you are using too much water and to fix it

[Villageshooter]

Thanks for the info BUT, I have a problem with them putting my lawn at risk while at the same time allowing continuing new construction. New construction means additional potable water hookups, new landscaping needing daily watering to survive, and new golf courses needing millions of gallons every day. This does not even consider the 3,500 unit apartment complex being built at the intersection of powell rd. and 466a. If the water supply is critical enough to jeopardize my investment, stop the new construction NOW.

You are on target,,,, sometimes when you have your head in the sand,, they cant see the light of the truth!! and that is what has happened,, folks keep watering because they are trying to be the good little drones they want us to be,,, me I have stopped watering all together,,, if it turns brown i will bale it and roll it an smoke it! I haVe not received one letter for that malfuncitioning sprinkling controller ,,,my yard is still as green as everyone around me.. Have been able to replace the batteries in my cart with the money i have saved...btw i understand there will be section 8 housing in an area of that apartment complex they wont put sprinklers in that area I am sure.

[graciegirl]

Stopping the new construction wouldn't be good for the people who work on the houses and for us in general. It adds value to all of our homes as long as the construction continues. We wouldn't want to wish to live in a place where things just dried up, literally and figuratively.

At least that is how it looks to me. The ban on watering, by the way is a state wide situation and we are in the St. Johns River water management district .Website of the St. Johns River Water Management District (http://www.sjrwmd.com/) So it is a situation that is not just limited here in TV.

PLUS...let us be realistic. Drive around TV, nothing is dying. It rains practically every day in the summer.

Don't I remember a post from you saying the developers were "hypocrites" when the sprinklers were running during the heavy rain of tropical storm Debby to keep down the danger of flooding? It takes a while living here, at least a year, to see that everything is pretty much run alright. Maybe a lot better than alright.

bump

[Joaniesmom]

Two words: Soaker hoses

Absolutely! First thing I'm going to do when I get down there. Most of my "lawn" is decorative stone. Why water my stones when I only need to water single plants. Actually I want to look onto drip systems that allow a slow drip of water to each plant. They use that system almost universally in Israel. Very short of water there. Is that what you were referring to by "soaker" hoses?

[rubicon]

You are on target,,,, sometimes when you have your head in the sand,, they cant see the light of the truth!! and that is what has happened,, folks keep watering because they are trying to be the good little drones they want us to be,,, me I have stopped watering all together,,, if it turns brown i will bale it and roll it an smoke it! I haVe not received one letter for that malfuncitioning sprinkling controller ,,,my yard is still as green as everyone around me.. Have been able to replace the batteries in my cart with the money i have saved...btw i understand there will be section 8 housing in an area of that apartment complex they wont put sprinklers in that area I am sure.

I wonder what your neighbors think? People in our area who have failed to water properly have all ended up with a cinch bug problem.

As for being invisible water companies have wireless meters being installed and can tell at any given time whether you are taking a shower, washing clothes, etc. it creeps me out but then government is not high on my list.

I had a problem with my water system and the utility company set me a warning and then came to my home to inspect. We worked it out as it was accidental. heck i don't want to give them any more oif my hard earned cash than need be...and i am especially mad about the three tier system in sumter county.

[k2at]

They do not have to catch u running your sprinklers on the wrong dates or running them twice a week. They monitor ur water usage on the meter and know the size of ur property. Therefore, they can very easily determine if u r using more water than u shud. Big brother is watching.

[jimbo2012]

Ok but sprinkler heads can output 1-10 gpm, so if your putting out 10gpm how would they know

[mulligan]

Run the system and read the meter

[batman911]

Absolutely! First thing I'm going to do when I get down there. Most of my "lawn" is decorative stone. Why water my stones when I only need to water single plants. Actually I want to look onto drip systems that allow a slow drip of water to each plant. They use that system almost universally in Israel. Very short of water there. Is that what you were referring to by "soaker" hoses?

Soaker hoses are not the same as drip lines. Soaker hoses are made of porous material that allows the water to seep out along the entire length of the hose. I use mine for a sidewalk strip of grass that would be difficult to water with sprinklers without watering the street and sidewalk. I wonder if anyone has considered burying soaker hoses in their grass areas. Water directly to the soil with no airborne evaporation.

[eweissenbach]

Interesting how many people are "law and order" advocates and are first in line to criticize young people in the square, or people who save seats at the square or people whose pets poop where they are not supposed to etc. etc. etc., but when it comes to their precious lawn they are willing to break the rules and brag about it. It seems it all depends on whose ox is being gored.

[perrjojo]

Interesting how many people are "law and order" advocates and are first in line to criticize young people in the square, or people who save seats at the square or people whose pets poop where they are not supposed to etc. etc. etc., but when it comes to their precious lawn they are willing to break the rules and brag about it. It seems it all depends on whose ox is being gored.
:bigbow:

[mrsanborn]

I fully understand the reasoning for the restriction. What irritates me though is the 10% surcharge that is tacked onto the base per thousand rates of both the potable and irrigation waters to cover the loss of revenue due to the lack of water useage (conservation). If you have a better explanation as to why a surcharge was added, then by all means enlighten me.

[KeepingItReal]

....

[Bogie Shooter]

Villages should set the example, homes built before ours next door and on this street water the lawns daily with water running down the curb into the storm drains from over watering. Anything goes until you buy it and then you are restricted.

Isn't that new sod??

[graciegirl]

Villages should set the example, homes built before ours next door and on this street water the lawns daily with water running down the curb into the storm drains from over watering. Anything goes until you buy it and then you are restricted.

They are establishing a lawn.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

A few weeks ago they closed some golf courses so that they could run the irrigation systems because the ponds were getting too full. If that's the case, why do we still have watering restrictions?

Why don't they allow the ponds to get higher then they do? Why is it that I see one pond up beyond the tree line and another one almost dry?

Just some questions that I've been pondering for several weeks now.

[mulligan]

"ponds" or retention areas actually have nothing to do with the water sources, except rainwater runoff. It is actually water that is prevented from draining down into the aquifer because the "ponds have a plastic liner. Water levels vary quite a bit because TV has the ability to move water to where it is needed through the storm drain system. The restrictions are put in place by the Southwest Florida Water Management District, based on lack of rainfall in the southwestern part of the state.

[Bogie Shooter]

A few weeks ago they closed some golf courses so that they could run the irrigation systems because the ponds were getting too full. If that's the case, why do we still have watering restrictions? Our water doesn't come from the ponds.Why don't they allow the ponds to get higher then they do? They would overrun their banks and cause flooding and washouts[/COLOR].Why is it that I see one pond up beyond the tree line and another one almost dry?Water is moved from one to the other as needed.Just some questions that I've been pondering for several weeks now.

...

[justjim]

If you are lucky to live in the St. Johns River Water District you can legally water 2 days a week. That is Lake County. If I were Tiger Woods, I could hit a golf ball from my yard into Lake County. Well almost----but you get the point. We are all pulling water out of the exact same Aquifer.

[graciegirl]

Sumter County, FL - Official Website - Watering Restrictions (http://www.sumtercountyfl.gov/index.aspx?NID=428)

[Mikeod]

"ponds" or retention areas actually have nothing to do with the water sources, except rainwater runoff. It is actually water that is prevented from draining down into the aquifer because the "ponds have a plastic liner. Water levels vary quite a bit because TV has the ability to move water to where it is needed through the storm drain system. The restrictions are put in place by the Southwest Florida Water Management District, based on lack of rainfall in the southwestern part of the state.
Additionally, if they allow the water in the retention ponds to get too high, there is a risk of water getting under the liner and undermining the ground underneath and damaging the liner, leading to loss of all the water in the pond.

[CarGuys]

Thanks for the info BUT, I have a problem with them putting my lawn at risk while at the same time allowing continuing new construction. New construction means additional potable water hookups, new landscaping needing daily watering to survive, and new golf courses needing millions of gallons every day. This does not even consider the 3,500 unit apartment complex being built at the intersection of powell rd. and 466a. If the water supply is critical enough to jeopardize my investment, stop the new construction NOW.

Agree! AS they pour the water on the dirt, roads new homes design centers and golf courses.

How can their be a restriction when all this new constructions is being allowed?

Then we have the ponds full and they pump em dry for sink hole protection.

[k2at]

They don't have to see u watering ur lawn at 3:00AM to cite u. All they have to do is measure ur usage for the month, look at ur lot size and they can figure out how much u r using. If they want to enforce the ban, it is an easy task for them without even leaving their office.

[asianthree]

They don't have to see u watering ur lawn at 3:00AM to cite u. All they have to do is measure ur usage for the month, look at ur lot size and they can figure out how much u r using. If they want to enforce the ban, it is an easy task for them without even leaving their office.

that's how you get the bad letter that says you are using too much water

[JoeC1947]

They don't have to see u watering ur lawn at 3:00AM to cite u. All they have to do is measure ur usage for the month, look at ur lot size and they can figure out how much u r using. If they want to enforce the ban, it is an easy task for them without even leaving their office.

It's not that cut and dry. The only thing the water company knows is what your usage is. Excess usage could simply be a broken sprinkler head or a leaking pipe. Believe me when I say the the water company employees aren't that smart.

[Bogie Shooter]

It's not that cut and dry. The only thing the water company knows is what your usage is. Excess usage could simply be a broken sprinkler head or a leaking pipe. Believe me when I say the the water company employees aren't that smart.

What is your opinion of the intelligence of golf course workers, restaurant servers, the mail station employess..............................

[JoeC1947]

What is your opinion of the intelligence of golf course workers, restaurant servers, the mail station employess..............................

All I meant was that no one in the water company is going to take the time to try and figure out what your usage should be based solely on your lot size nor do they have a magic formula that they use, they can guess but there are too many variables like leaks and broken heads. I didn't say they were stupid. I don't appreciate your comment which I would take to mean that according to you, I think everyone is stupid. Nice try but I ain't biting so go fishing someplace else if you're trying to make trouble. :shrug:

[Russ_Boston]

All I meant was that no one in the water company is going to take the time to try and figure out what your usage should be based solely on your lot size nor do they have a magic formula that they use, they can guess but there are too many variables like leaks and broken heads. I didn't say they were stupid. I don't appreciate your comment which I would take to mean that according to you, I think everyone is stupid. Nice try but I ain't biting so go fishing someplace else if you're trying to make trouble. :shrug:


We can only go by what you TYPE Joe, not what you think you meant. You actually typed that "Believe me when I say the the water company employees aren't that smart"

So please don't berate others who may question what you meant.

My 2 c.

[Bogie Shooter]

All I meant was that no one in the water company is going to take the time to try and figure out what your usage should be based solely on your lot size nor do they have a magic formula that they use, they can guess but there are too many variables like leaks and broken heads. I didn't say they were stupid. I don't appreciate your comment which I would take to mean that according to you, I think everyone is stupid. Nice try but I ain't biting so go fishing someplace else if you're trying to make trouble. :shrug:

I was not fishing. Calling folks at the water dept not very smart was not necessary. Saying things like that on TOTV and trouble will come to you.
And I did not appreciate your comment.

[JoeC1947]

We can only go by what you TYPE Joe, not what you think you meant. You actually typed that "Believe me when I say the the water company employees aren't that smart"

So please don't berate others who may question what you meant.

My 2 c.

You are right Russ.

[JoeC1947]

I was not fishing. Calling folks at the water dept not very smart was not necessary. Saying things like that on TOTV and trouble will come to you.
And I did not appreciate your comment.

You are right Bogie.

[jarhead67]

Interesting how many people are "law and order" advocates and are first in line to criticize young people in the square, or people who save seats at the square or people whose pets poop where they are not supposed to etc. etc. etc., but when it comes to their precious lawn they are willing to break the rules and brag about it. It seems it all depends on whose ox is being gored.

I totally agree with this statement and must say being new to the Villages I'm really impressed with integrity of my new neighbors. I hope there is a posting of breakable rules and unbreakable rules so I'll know which ones I choose to break:a20: and yes as Graciegirl stated these are probably the same people who complain about everything else, hey! maybe there can be a new club started just for the rule breakers/bitchers, I all in!

[Mikeod]

I hope the district monitors by the amount of water used. My area of TV has a lot of clay under the surface, so water tends to run off or pool. As a result, a lot of my zoysia is infested with torpedo grass.Torpedo grass loves wet conditions, and the clay soil creates just that situation with normal watering. After discussing this with my lawn maintenance company, their suggestion was to divide my sprinkler times by 4 or 5 and water four days a week at the reduced times. So, my system may be running on an "off" day but my total water use will actually be less than if I ran it twice a week at the regular run times per zone.

They will also be spraying an herbicide that may control the torpedo grass. It will discolor the zoysia but it should recover in a few weeks.

[Russ_Boston]

I hope the district monitors by the amount of water used. My area of TV has a lot of clay under the surface, so water tends to run off or pool. As a result, a lot of my zoysia is infested with torpedo grass.Torpedo grass loves wet conditions, and the clay soil creates just that situation with normal watering. After discussing this with my lawn maintenance company, their suggestion was to divide my sprinkler times by 4 or 5 and water four days a week at the reduced times. So, my system may be running on an "off" day but my total water use will actually be less than if I ran it twice a week at the regular run times per zone.

They will also be spraying an herbicide that may control the torpedo grass. It will discolor the zoysia but it should recover in a few weeks.

Mike - Like most government bodies they care more about follow what's written on the page instead of the real intent. Of course the most important thing is the TOTAL gallons of water used. That makes sense. But try telling that to any bureaucrat (including many on this board!). If I were in charge I wouldn't care about WHEN you watered only the amount. But rules being rules we're not allowed to alter them. If someone would like to use real logic to debate this I'm all ears. But don't give me "I follow rules and so should you". They have our total gallon usage at their fingertips and they could easily ID any flagrant abusers. (Yes, I know that you could have a leaky broken pipe but you could get one warning to check and fix that - no?).

[jimbo2012]

So what's to prevent you from watering off your potable water which has no limits?

[graciegirl]

I am learning so many things. In some parts of the country a rule is a rule. In other parts a rule is a suggestion.

[Russ_Boston]

So what's to prevent you from watering off your potable water which has no limits?


Who says that has no restrictions? The restriction is on lawn watering not source. At least as far as I can discern.

And the official page: http://sumtercountyfl.gov/index.aspx?nid=428 also says twice per week now.

[the square]

The VCCD drivers on the mid night shift report report improper watering to their control center. The follow ups are done at the end of each month..

[jimbo2012]

Do they count how many showers U take?

I think that's a bit paranoid.

[Mikeod]

So what's to prevent you from watering off your potable water which has no limits?
Our deed prohibits using a sprinkler attached by hose to the faucet on the house. It's apparently OK to stand there with a hose and water, but not put a sprinkler on the end and leave it on the ground.

[justjim]

I believe there is a shortage of water about the same as Climate Change is being caused by the pollution from my car and/or the 95% clean coal fired power plant located wherever. I use to work for the "Government" and know first hand how "Government" can and usually does overreact to various issues. If 'they" were consistent regarding water restrictions that would be one thing but the fact that less than a mile away one government agency says you can water as much as you want but where I live another says something else makes no sense when we are both getting water from the exactly same aquifer. But because I was for years just a poor humble public servant---guess what----- I usually follow the rules. Like most people----USUALLY!