POA questions golf cart seat belt issue

[EdV]

It’s about time that the POA has finally decided to take issue with the Sherriff’s Department recommendation against using seat belts for golf carts in TV. They are raising issues and challenging the Sheriff’s Department to provide accident statistics to support their anti seatbelt position. Here is a link to the article (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201207.pdf).

It makes no sense to me to apply the same standards for golf carts that are used exclusively on golf courses to those used in TV for transportation. Golf course carts are usually governed down to 14mph, travel mostly on unidirectional paths and soft fairways. The carts in TV are zipping in and out of traffic at 20mph, careening in and out of narrow two way tunnels, and dealing with other cars and trucks whose drivers think a stop sign means slow down a little.

The other day I watched a 6 year old hop into the passenger seat of a cart. His feet were a good 6 inches above the floor and he held onto his knees for support as the driver sped off down the road. It’s crazy. Please folks, get 3 point belts installed on your carts and use them on the streets of TV.

[Bogie Shooter]

Ed, I didn't know the POA bulletin was delivered to Stonecrest. Only kidding I know you picked it up at Publix.:laugh:

[pooh]

Thanks, Ed....I agree.

[mulligan]

Without a real roll cage, I'd rather get tossed out in an accident than wind up with a cart on top of me. Just sayin'.

[paulandjean]

I would have to vote No for seatbelts

[EdV]

Without a real roll cage, I'd rather get tossed out in an accident that wind up with a cart on top of me. Just sayin'.

It would help if you would at least read the article and comment from that standpoint instead of just making rhetorical statements.

[EdV]

Ed, I didn't know the POA bulletin was delivered to Stonecrest. Only kidding I know you picked it up at Publix.:laugh:

Why bother when it's available on-line.

[NotGolfer]

Ed, your comment "sped off" is pretty much key here! Seatbelts aren't needed "if" the folks driving aren't speeding and adhering to the rules of the road! Accidents do happen but mostly by folks who are distracted if you've read the POA in the past (they've been posting the accidents).

[Joaniesmom]

It’s about time that the POA has finally decided to take issue with the Sherriff’s Department recommendation against using seat belts for golf carts in TV. They are raising issues and challenging the Sheriff’s Department to provide accident statistics to support their anti seatbelt position. Here is a link to the article (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201207.pdf).

It makes no sense to me to apply the same standards for golf carts that are used exclusively on golf courses to those used in TV for transportation. Golf course carts are usually governed down to 14mph, travel mostly on unidirectional paths and soft fairways. The carts in TV are zipping in and out of traffic at 20mph, careening in and out of narrow two way tunnels, and dealing with other cars and trucks whose drivers think a stop sign means slow down a little.

The other day I watched a 6 year old hop into the passenger seat of a cart. His feet were a good 6 inches above the floor and he held onto his knees for support as the driver sped off down the road. It’s crazy. Please folks, get 3 point belts installed on your carts and use them on the streets of TV.

Ed, Are you suggesting these seatbelts for everyone or just for children? If for children, how old or how large? What about babies? Carseats?

[CarGuys]

I see Bicycle riders wear safety Helmets. They are also mandatory for children. Then same person gets in a cart with no belts or doors and travels 20 mph or faster.

With no protection seems like a accident waiting to happen. Did I not read on this site of a woman killed who flew out the passenger seat and hit her head on the road?

It's a free country and it's your right to not buckle up. In fact I come form a State where Motorcycle Helmets are mandatory. Here the hair is flying in the Breeze, or the glare is reflecting off the head!

But to chance flying out hitting your head on the concrete curb or a tunnel or tree makes the wife and I opt for the three point belt system

[ilovetv]

Without a real roll cage, I'd rather get tossed out in an accident than wind up with a cart on top of me. Just sayin'.

The real difference here in TV is that getting tossed out onto the street pavement in front of an oncoming truck or car going 30 mph....that then runs over us....is far more deadly or maiming than getting thrown out onto golf course turf. Many of the fatalities here have been from being thrown out and then getting run over by a much bigger vehicle.

Also, getting thrown out and hitting one's skull on a concrete curb or on pavement is a lot more likely to result in massive brain bleeding and spillage than if the head hits golf course grass.

Driver/passenger ejection studies done on golf course turf really do not apply to driving on paved city streets in 20-30 mph car/truck traffic here.

[Barefoot]

Here the hair is flying in the Breeze, or the glare is reflecting off the head!

I just cannot believe that the State of Florida doesn't require helmets on motorcycles.

Apparently most injuries in golf carts happen when people fly out and hit their heads. Seems like seat belts or helmets would help. But they would certainly impact the feeling of freedom that a lot of wrinklies love.

[rubicon]

It’s about time that the POA has finally decided to take issue with the Sherriff’s Department recommendation against using seat belts for golf carts in TV. They are raising issues and challenging the Sheriff’s Department to provide accident statistics to support their anti seatbelt position. Here is a link to the article (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201207.pdf).

It makes no sense to me to apply the same standards for golf carts that are used exclusively on golf courses to those used in TV for transportation. Golf course carts are usually governed down to 14mph, travel mostly on unidirectional paths and soft fairways. The carts in TV are zipping in and out of traffic at 20mph, careening in and out of narrow two way tunnels, and dealing with other cars and trucks whose drivers think a stop sign means slow down a little.

The other day I watched a 6 year old hop into the passenger seat of a cart. His feet were a good 6 inches above the floor and he held onto his knees for support as the driver sped off down the road. It’s crazy. Please folks, get 3 point belts installed on your carts and use them on the streets of TV.

Ed forgive me for being the one to point out the elephant in the room but since you are not a resident of TV do you think its right that you ought to be pushing suggestions that affect residents here?.....just saying

[Challenger]

The real difference here in TV is that getting tossed out onto the street pavement in front of an oncoming truck or car going 30 mph....that then runs over us....is far more deadly or maiming than getting thrown out onto golf course turf. Many of the fatalities here have been from being thrown out and then getting run over by a much bigger vehicle.

Also, getting thrown out and hitting one's skull on a concrete curb or on pavement is a lot more likely to result in massive brain bleeding and spillage than if the head hits golf course grass.

Driver/passenger ejection studies done on golf course turf really do not apply to driving on paved city streets in 20-30 mph car/truck traffic here.

Makes sense to me !!

[rhredd1654]

My grandchildren (ages 6 & 8) know they have to buckle up when riding in the cart. I would not have it any other way. A sudden bump, quick turn, etc. would be enough to throw a child from the cart. I am distressed when I see "Grandma" driving the cart with a little one on her lap. Not safe!

[graciegirl]

So far I can't remember any reports of any little ones here being hurt due to a golf cart accident but...

I am fearful sometimes when I see little ones facing backward, with no adult beside them.

This is the summertime, the slow time of year for population and traffic and last high season, January, February and March, there was far too many serious accidents here with golf carts and cars and I am not sure just what would be the best way to prevent them.

I think most of us would be open to some change that might affect a plus to us all being more safe. I am thinking more and more about some numbers being attached to golf carts, but who would be in charge? There are many golf carts that drive on our streets from surrounding communities such as Stonecrest. In a situation like this, it can become a bureaucratic nightmare, but with more and more golf carts and no way to identify drivers who are driving erratically, it is hard to think of a way to let someone know who can stop someone who is a potential threat to safety.

Anyone have any good ideas?

P.S. Ed, it would be such a good idea for you to move here to The Villages. You are such a great benefit to us when it comes to information of any kind. I would vote for you for mayor, but we don't have a mayor, just a king and we didn't vote for him. But so far I like the king.

[EdV]

Ed forgive me for being the one to point out the elephant in the room but since you are not a resident of TV do you think its right that you ought to be pushing suggestions that affect residents here?.....just saying

I see nothing wrong with wanting to protect the grandchildren of TV residents when they are riding around TV on the streets that my county tax dollars maintain.

[2BNTV]

I would feel safer with a three point safety belt. To get throw from a cart or be in an accident at 20 MPH could result in severe injuries without a seat belt.

I always use my seat belt in my car and would want to use it in any traveling vehicle.

Just sayin........

[hotrodgirl]

When I came to TV for the first time I'm May, my creekside villa came with a golf cart included. The first time I took it for a spin, I was leaving the main street from the villas (Merriweather Way?) and took the turn perhaps a bit too fast to the golf cart path. I almost fell out and held myself in by hanging on to the steering wheel. Having never driven a cart before, it was a rude awakening! And those particular carts don't even go faster than 12 or 14 mph! I was MUCH more careful after that, became comfortable with the cart, but was always reminded of how dangerous it could be. I LOVE driving them around. Easy, peasy, and fun! But we need to be mindful of the dangers! I would not be adverse to a seat belt, for sure!

[bimmertl]

I would feel safer with a three point safety belt. To get throw from a cart or be in an accident at 20 MPH could result in severe injuries without a seat belt.

I always use my seat belt in my car and would want to use it in any traveling vehicle.

Just sayin........

Sorry for going off topic but enough of "just sayin", which adds nothing to a post.


Phrases To Be Banned: Just Sayin' (http://gawker.com/5259560/phrases-to-be-banned-just-sayin)

[EdV]

P.S. Ed, it would be such a good idea for you to move here to The Villages. You are such a great benefit to us when it comes to information of any kind. I would vote for you for mayor....

Oh Gracie, you’re too kind. Me Mayor? Rubicon and BogieShooter would go berserk.

I think the best that seatbelt proponents should hope for in TV is that after reviewing all the evidence and historical data, the Sheriff’s Department reverses its stand against them due to the special nature of the enormous golf cart transportation community that TV is.

In the past, any discussion about the merits of using seatbelts on carts would invariably end when someone would post that the Sherriff’s Department regularly attends community meetings and recommends against them.

So if the Sherriff’s Department even changed to a neutral position on this, at least people could make up their own minds without feeling like they’re going against official recommendations.

Hopefully, the POA will continue to keep the dialog running. It's too important to ignore.

[Barefoot]

Sorry for going off topic but enough of "just sayin", which adds nothing to a post.

Phrases To Be Banned: Just Sayin' (http://gawker.com/5259560/phrases-to-be-banned-just-sayin)

Maybe you should start a separate thread about "Phrases that Should be Banned from TOTV". Just saying. :)

[Posh 08]

If one feels the need for a golf cart seat belt go for it. How one protects themselves should be up to them. Case in point..........

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd502/posh2008/529930_10150823444788486_768948485_9520666_2644064 38_n.jpg

[rubicon]

I can tell you about some people thrown from a car and died as a result of that occurrence. However I have also seen where people were thrown from their vehicle without injury and the remaining people in that vehicle sustained fatal injuries. I can tell about a guy who is now a quadrparlegic because of the fact that in a roll over his seat belt damaged his spine Or the woman who went over an embankment with the vehicle on its top in low water (creek) but because she was locked in by her seat belt she drowned.

Let's look at the practical side here. First those in favor are desirng to create a law that does not now exist without any supporting and long term data and impose their desire on an entire community. The large costs associated with installing seat belts are an issue. The fact that seat belts cannot be properly anchored are another. Just exactly how many people who presently have seat belts installed in their carts use them while driving on these cart paths? How about the roads? A guy I play golf with had seat belts installed before he purchased his cart. He has nothing pleasant to say about them. By creating a golf cart seat belt law means the law has to be enforced and to be enforced it requires law enforcement, law enforcement that is already over burden . Finally to be enforced means to suffer a penalty normally a monetary penalty.

If the position of Mayor opens up I would like to throw my hat in the ring and campaign on this issue.

[LittleDog]

I had seat belts installed by C&C in a Yamaha with a MEE cab. Because of the cab I couldn't install 3 point belts so just have belts around the waist. They were anchored to the underside of the seat and it would seem to me that any cart could be installed with seat belts anchored that way. The belts go through the back of the seat. We feel much safer with these belts and the cost was reasonable.

John

[EdV]

.. If the position of Mayor opens up I would like to throw my hat in the ring and campaign on this issue.

The position of Mayor requires one to be able to stay on track and address the issue at hand. Nowhere in my original post did I even suggest a seatbelt law nor did the POA article that I referenced. And nowhere in my post did I advocate using them on cart paths as I specifically said “on the streets of TV”.

This thread is not about laws, regulations, fines, or installation expenses. It’s about the Sherriff’s Department taking a stand against golf cart seatbelts that may in fact prove to be more detrimental than helpful.

And as for embellishing one’s position with fictitious scenarios, I remember those very same fictitious scenarios being used over 4 decades ago when State seatbelt laws were first being debated.

[bimmertl]

Maybe you should start a separate thread about "Phrases that Should be Banned from TOTV". Just saying. :)

Good point, "boy howdy". That's another one.

[ilovetv]

Your attacking me where is a moderator when you need one. I am on track and my examples are actual events because they were all claims made against the insurance company I worked for. Please focus on Stonecrest politics.

I'm pretty sure that the original point was not that a law is needed to force seat belts, but that common sense tells us it's not worth it to be ejected (which can easily happen) and.....either get run over by a car/truck, or hit our skull on curb or pavement and have brain hemorrhage/spill and death.

It's not about golf usage of the cart. It's about automobile traffic use and getting ejected on the street.

We had seat belts installed immediately after getting our cart and seeing how easily a front wheel and steering wheel can get jarred by a gutter grate which then can lead to hitting the curb and toppling.....or by seeing how easily the passenger or driver can get thrown because of a sudden needed maneuver like braking, avoiding something in our path, or having to suddenly get over to the right a bit in the diamond lane because a car beside you is dangerously close, etc.

Obviously we don't use the seat belts on the golf course. But we don't leave our driveway without them fastened.

[memason]

Sorry for going off topic but enough of "just sayin", which adds nothing to a post.


Phrases To Be Banned: Just Sayin' (http://gawker.com/5259560/phrases-to-be-banned-just-sayin)


Whatever . . .

[Posh 08]

Whatever . . .

:icon_wink:

[justjim]

:ohdear:I just cannot believe that the State of Florida doesn't require helmets on motorcycles.

Apparently most injuries in golf carts happen when people fly out and hit their heads. Seems like seat belts or helmets would help. But they would certainly impact the feeling of freedom that a lot of wrinklies love.

Illinois doesn't require helmets for motorcycles either----there might be other States. I know it was a big isssue in Illinois a few years ago----first you had to wear helmets then "they" got it changed. Seat belts required in my golf cart----wear one if you want but they should not be mandatory. Next up: License plate for your golf cart ($100.00 a year) so we can find all the criminals riding around TV and put more sheriff deputies on patrol. "You have to be reasonable to reason." JustJim

[EdV]

....I am on track and my examples are actual events because they were all claims made against the insurance company I worked for.....

And so did I. Long enough to know that there isn't an insurance company on the face of this earth that would advocate against the use of seat belts.

[Russ_Boston]

If you guys will read the POA article and then do a search on TOTV and other web sites for 'deaths from golf carts in The Villages' you might change your mind. The fact is that the last 10 deaths of people in carts within TV have been from some sort of head injury. Either getting thrown from the cart and hit their head, or get run over by landscape truck or car, or hit their head on any other object. The video that Sumter county shows is not relevant to what happens around our town. Not one accident in the past 7 years that killed anyone was from a roll over where the cart crushed them. Not one. There have been some bad injuries from roll overs but no deaths in that time frame. I have seat belts in my cart and I use them unless I'm on the course.

I also think it's about time we challenged the conventional wisdom (thanks for starting this thread Ed) since we have real data on our side from these tragic deaths.

[graciegirl]

If you guys will read the POA article and then do a search on TOTV and other web sites for 'deaths from golf carts in The Villages' you might change your mind. The fact is that the last 10 deaths of people in carts within TV have been from some sort of head injury. Either getting thrown from the cart and hit their head, or get run over by landscape truck or car, or hit their head on any other object. The video that Sumter county shows is not relevant to what happens around our town. Not one accident in the past 7 years that killed anyone was from a roll over where the cart crushed them. Not one. There have been some bad injuries from roll overs but no deaths in that time frame. I have seat belts in my cart and I use them unless I'm on the course.

I also think it's about time we challenged the conventional wisdom (thanks for starting this thread Ed) since we have real data on our side from these tragic deaths.


Your opinion is very valued to me Russ, I think that you have good judgement and good evaluating skills, especially since you are now working in the hospital here.

Where did you get your golf cart seat belts installed and about how much do they cost?

[EdV]

Ah Russ, another breath of fresh air. Thanks for your factual input as always.

Gracie, the usual available retro fit retractable belt set is around $75-100 plus installation which is pretty straight forward. Just be sure to have one of the local cart shops (perhaps one that advertises on TOTV) install them. And be sure to get the retractable type so as Russ pointed out, you can leave them retracted away while on the course.

[Bogie Shooter]

Good point, "boy howdy". That's another one.

That is copyrighted by Gracie.............do you have permission to use it??

[graciegirl]

Good point, "boy howdy". That's another one.

Boy Howdy. Some of us didn't get our nap.:boxing2:

[Schaumburger]

My grandchildren (ages 6 & 8) know they have to buckle up when riding in the cart. I would not have it any other way. A sudden bump, quick turn, etc. would be enough to throw a child from the cart. I am distressed when I see "Grandma" driving the cart with a little one on her lap. Not safe!

:agree: I saw this at Lake Sumter Landing when I was in TV last month. Baby --about 6 months old -- sitting in "Grandma's" lap when they were in a golf cart driving around LSL right by the square. I'm not a mom or a grandma, but that did not look safe to me. Just my 2 cents.

[ilovetv]

If you guys will read the POA article and then do a search on TOTV and other web sites for 'deaths from golf carts in The Villages' you might change your mind. The fact is that the last 10 deaths of people in carts within TV have been from some sort of head injury. Either getting thrown from the cart and hit their head, or get run over by landscape truck or car, or hit their head on any other object. The video that Sumter county shows is not relevant to what happens around our town. Not one accident in the past 7 years that killed anyone was from a roll over where the cart crushed them. Not one. There have been some bad injuries from roll overs but no deaths in that time frame. I have seat belts in my cart and I use them unless I'm on the course.

I also think it's about time we challenged the conventional wisdom (thanks for starting this thread Ed) since we have real data on our side from these tragic deaths.

BRAVO, Russ!

[rubicon]

And so did I. Long enough to know that there isn't an insurance company on the face of this earth that would advocate against the use of seat belts.

Au contraire I did not say that, and the cases I cited were factual accident cases you labeled fictional. As you recall my initial post only question why someone not living in The Villages would take license to speak for said residents.

To say that x number of people died because... requires quite a bit of research....relative to what ? Injuries are categorize by type location ,etc over many years before any meaningful information can be gleaned by insurance companies and then they are not completely relied upon.

Finally I am not arguing for or against seat belts only attempting to expand on the complexities involving with this issue.

[thistrucksforyou]

I vote no...to many laws telling me what I can and can't do.....

[RichieLion]

There should be a regulation for children to be buckled in because of the real risk of ejection from the cart.

I've seen too many small children unprotected in carts while their oblivious "caretakers" are speeding around. If the driver has to apply the brakes quickly for any reason there's a good chance the child could get hurt.

The word of the day on this subject is "inertia".

[JeffAVEWS]

Interesting thread, but it seems to point to the need for the use of helmets more then seat belts ( I can hear the screams now). Anyhow, we are talking about golf carts, not LSV's, those should have belts installed. Perhaps the Sheriff's department would do better spending its resources finding all of the golf carts that are modified to do more then 19 mph (more screams).
I'm running for Night Mayor

[Barefoot]

If you guys will read the POA article and then do a search on TOTV and other web sites for 'deaths from golf carts in The Villages' you might change your mind. The fact is that the last 10 deaths of people in carts within TV have been from some sort of head injury. Either getting thrown from the cart and hit their head, or get run over by landscape truck or car, or hit their head on any other object. The video that Sumter county shows is not relevant to what happens around our town. Not one accident in the past 7 years that killed anyone was from a roll over where the cart crushed them. Not one. There have been some bad injuries from roll overs but no deaths in that time frame. I have seat belts in my cart and I use them unless I'm on the course.

I also think it's about time we challenged the conventional wisdom (thanks for starting this thread Ed) since we have real data on our side from these tragic deaths.

This is a poster that we should all respect. He speaks from a resident's point of view, but also from a medical perspective. I'm getting seat belts. :ho:

[EdV]

...Anyhow, we are talking about golf carts, not LSV's, those should have belts installed.....

Why do you think that. Do you really believe that the additional 5 mph allowed for LSVs justifies the need for seatbelts. No, as stated in the POA article it is because the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration realized that these vehicles would be primarily operated on streets along with cars, trucks and trailers. Which is exactly what the 40,000 golf carts in TV are being used for every day.

[Taltarzac725]

Safety Concerns Rise As Golf Carts Take to the Streets (http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2010/06/22/110892.htm)

"Each year, about 13,000 golf cart-related accidents require emergency room visits, and that number is rising as the economical, fun-to-drive carts become more popular on city streets, says Seluga, who analyzed statistics compiled by the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission.

Of those accidents, about 40 percent involve children younger than 16, and half of those are due to a fall from a moving golf cart." from the above linked Insurance Journal June 22, 2010 article.




The seat belt law in the Villages would be a State matter, so the Sheriff's Department's input would not be as important say as that of the FL Sheriff's Association or other statewide organizations. http://www.flsheriffs.org/ This would probably be a very hard law to get on the books since most of the golf carts in other parts of FL would be on golf courses and probably would rarely if ever have kids driving them or even as passengers.

Do think that a FL state law requiring anyone under 14 to wear seat belts in golf carts is a reasonable one. You rarely will see a kid under 14 driving or riding around on a golf course and perhaps the golf courses can fix some of their golf carts to have seat belts. There's still the problem of roll overs though.

[hotrodgirl]

Taltarzac, interesting and thought-provoking article. Thanks for finding and sharing it. While I think we all have our own opinions, I err on the side of safety. Perhaps seat belts will be in order when I finally get down there to purchase a cart! Not for everyone, but I don't mind having them! Thanks!

[justjim]

The fact is that Golf Carts were designed for golf courses. They were never designed to be used like they are in TV. Maybe a seat belt would help, in some cases, but if you want "real safety" you need to do much more than put a seal belt into a golf cart that was designed to be used at low speed on a golf course. For me, that is the bottom line.

[Russ_Boston]

Au contraire I did not say that, and the cases I cited were factual accident cases you labeled fictional. As you recall my initial post only question why someone not living in The Villages would take license to speak for said residents.

To say that x number of people died because... requires quite a bit of research....relative to what ? Injuries are categorize by type location ,etc over many years before any meaningful information can be gleaned by insurance companies and then they are not completely relied upon.

Finally I am not arguing for or against seat belts only attempting to expand on the complexities involving with this issue.

The POA has been detailing all reported cart crashes for some time in an attempt to point out that most involve being thrown/ejected from the cart. These are real reports and not just hearsay. If you do a search on TOTV for cart accidents you'll see many of the past 5 years that involved a death. All of those were from some sort of ejection. It's time for our governing bodies to use the real data from what has happened. I'm sure that the various police agencies (Sumter, Marion, Lake etc.) have the actual data and circumstances of each major crash that they are called to.

But no one is forcing anyone else to use belts. I don't have the real good 3 point retractable type like others but I may switch after thinking about it.

[Russ_Boston]

The word of the day on this subject is "inertia".

I like that.

[EdV]

FYI update. I just called a local cart shop and they said that the cost of a pair of retractable lap seat belts is around $200 installed depending upon make and year of the cart.

This is clearly not the huge expense some would have you believe and is certainly less than a day at Disney World with the grandkids would set you back.

[hdh1470]

I would think they should have cart makers do.Not cart shops that are not qualified on safety equipment.Maybe all new carts other then those sold to golf courses should have them.

[Jim 9922]

FYI update. I just called a local cart shop and they said that the cost of a pair of retractable lap seat belts is around $200 installed depending upon make and year of the cart.

This is clearly not the huge expense some would have you believe and is certainly less than a day at Disney World with the grandkids would set you back.

With 55,000 carts in TV that would cost us $11,000,000. I'd like the seat belt franchise!

Then lets license them all at $100 each year and spend another $5,500,000, or another $55,000,000 over the next 10 years! And some people complain about a $10 monthly CDD fee raise?!

Then lets do annual emissions inspections on all the gas carts and maybe leaky battery checks on the electrics.

And then we hire a whole bunch of over paid bureaucrats to do and enforce all this.

What I'm saying is, careful what you wish for!!

Please, don't bubble wrap me, I've been able to take care of myself and my family pretty well for 70 years.:boxing2:

[rubicon]

The POA has been detailing all reported cart crashes for some time in an attempt to point out that most involve being thrown/ejected from the cart. These are real reports and not just hearsay. If you do a search on TOTV for cart accidents you'll see many of the past 5 years that involved a death. All of those were from some sort of ejection. It's time for our governing bodies to use the real data from what has happened. I'm sure that the various police agencies (Sumter, Marion, Lake etc.) have the actual data and circumstances of each major crash that they are called to.

But no one is forcing anyone else to use belts. I don't have the real good 3 point retractable type like others but I may switch after thinking about it.

But Russ that is where we are going with all this. The POA always has good intentions but too often the things they do result with unintended consequences

[Posh 08]

FYI update. I just called a local cart shop and they said that the cost of a pair of retractable lap seat belts is around $200 installed depending upon make and year of the cart.

This is clearly not the huge expense some would have you believe and is certainly less than a day at Disney World with the grandkids would set you back.

Did you happen to ask about the cost of a roll bar?

[rubicon]

The fact is that Golf Carts were designed for golf courses. They were never designed to be used like they are in TV. Maybe a seat belt would help, in some cases, but if you want "real safety" you need to do much more than put a seal belt into a golf cart that was designed to be used at low speed on a golf course. For me, that is the bottom line.

Bingo! You have a vehicle made exclisively for golf courses and being used as a second vehicle. adding a seat belt alone will only exacerbate the safety issue. Again the POA action are resulting in unintened consequences.
As a side bar I believe the cost to install seat belts cost more than the $200 stated in a previous post. I need to follow up on this aspect for my satisifaction

[REDCART]

...As a side bar I believe the cost to install seat belts cost more than the $200 stated in a previous post. I need to follow up on this aspect for my satisifaction

In February Advantage Golf Cars (near CR 101) installed retractable seat belts on our EZGo. The total charge was $139.10.

[CarGuys]

I just cannot believe that the State of Florida doesn't require helmets on motorcycles.

Apparently most injuries in golf carts happen when people fly out and hit their heads. Seems like seat belts or helmets would help. But they would certainly impact the feeling of freedom that a lot of wrinklies love.

Driving down 441 toward Orlando Sunday. There next to the flashing lights was a Harley full Dresser on it's side. Rider on the road. Many EMT'S standing around looking at him. No Helmet no one working on him. Makes me think it's not a good thing to ride without a Helmet.

Now that is off topic as Helmets not OP original questions it was belts-

Another Poster brought up a very valid point. A three point belt system is not going to work without proper Roll Bar Construction. At present that is only on Tomberlin or other LSV vehicles.

This reinforces the on going debates / arguments /. "How come it's seems OK for some to drive 25 + in a modified cart designed to roll 15 mph with no protection?"

Yet a LSV has three point belts brakes suspension and 5-25 mph crash bumbers.

Again off Topic - Seems to me why not all keep the carts under 21 and let's those abusing the system in place get ticketed. And I hate a Police NANNY State.

However I also dislike people passing us while were at 25 in a legal LSV and the Yamaha goes smoking by at 25 + It's like Golf Cart Pony Car Wars starting. Let's just keep increasing speed till were all going 50

Just asking ?

H

[rubicon]

Driving down 441 toward Orlando Sunday. There next to the flashing lights was a Harley full Dresser on it's side. Rider on the road. Many EMT'S standing around looking at him. No Helmet no one working on him. Makes me think it's not a good thing to ride without a Helmet.

Now that is off topic as Helmets not OP original questions it was belts-

Another Poster brought up a very valid point. A three point belt system is not going to work without proper Roll Bar Construction. At present that is only on Tomberlin or other LSV vehicles.

This reinforces the on going debates / arguments /. "How come it's seems OK for some to drive 25 + in a modified cart designed to roll 15 mph with no protection?"

Yet a LSV has three point belts brakes suspension and 5-25 mph crash bumbers.

Again off Topic - Seems to me why not all keep the carts under 21 and let's those abusing the system in place get ticketed. And I hate a Police NANNY State.

However I also dislike people passing us while were at 25 in a legal LSV and the Yamaha goes smoking by at 25 + It's like Golf Cart Pony Car Wars starting. Let's just keep increasing speed till were all going 50

Just asking ?

H

CarGuy: I aprreciate your post. Let me pose a question. If being thrown from a golf cart is the issue and since being thrown from a motorcyle is a bigger problem should motorcycles be fitted with seat belts?

The issue isn't seat belts per se its the effectiveness of seat belts in golfcarts. If safety is the issue then I respectively suggest whether you are on a golfcart path or a golf course the potential for injury is there.
As for street legal vehicles , well I will only say that I would never drive my cart in regular traffic, heck I wouldn't drive a smart car in regular traffic.

Thanks again for your excellent comments. Enjoy doug's Fsih Fry


Personal Best Regards:

[EdV]

CarGuy: I aprreciate your post. Let me pose a question. If being thrown from a golf cart is the issue and since being thrown from a motorcyle is a bigger problem should motorcycles be fitted with seat belts?

The issue isn't seat belts per se its the effectiveness of seat belts in golfcarts. If safety is the issue then I respectively suggest whether you are on a golfcart path or a golf course the potential for injury is there.
As for street legal vehicles , well I will only say that I would never drive my cart in regular traffic, heck I wouldn't drive a smart car in regular traffic.

Thanks again for your excellent comments. Enjoy doug's Fsih Fry


Personal Best Regards:

CarGuy, if you can figure out this logic, please for the benefit of some of us, could you pass along your best interpretation because I sure can’t. Unbelievable.

[Russ_Boston]

CarGuy:should motorcycles be fitted with seat belts?



That's an easy logic one: Your head will still hit the ground or something when the bike falls. Belts make no sense in this case since the outcome is still hitting your head on something.

The cart seat belt is designed to keep you in the vehicle during a sudden move (like when people hit curbs and over correct).

[Russ_Boston]

that I would never drive my cart in regular traffic, heck I wouldn't drive a smart car in regular traffic.

Not sure what you mean by regular traffic but as you know the carts in the diamond lanes are basically in regular traffic. No? Not sure an LSV is in any more danger being in line with the cars than we are on the side of them on more than 2 feet or so when they pass.

[CarGuys]

CarGuy: I aprreciate your post. Let me pose a question. If being thrown from a golf cart is the issue and since being thrown from a motorcyle is a bigger problem should motorcycles be fitted with seat belts?

The issue isn't seat belts per se its the effectiveness of seat belts in golfcarts. If safety is the issue then I respectively suggest whether you are on a golfcart path or a golf course the potential for injury is there.
As for street legal vehicles , well I will only say that I would never drive my cart in regular traffic, heck I wouldn't drive a smart car in regular traffic.

Thanks again for your excellent comments. Enjoy doug's Fsih Fry


Personal Best Regards:

A Honda Gold Wing now has a Air Bag Option. My training in MC saftey said our only protection was common sense, being aware at all times of the other driver and upcoming possibilities. Knowing your machine and how to stop it or lay it down. And the leather riding gear on your body combined with gloves and a Helmet.

Tee Shirts, Flower pot skull cap fake Helmets or your bare mellon don't work. Hit the road without riding gear and you look like you just lost a battle with a Ninja Blender.

Now the truth.:icon_wink:

Last year I was riding in a loaner cart while the wife was driving. Big smile on her face enjoying the ride. Then outta know where another cart pulled out of a rec center ran over the white plastic divider in the trail and then swerved into our lane. The wife over reacted and jerked the wheel. Next thing I know ole Herv's playing trim the shrubs with my right side and hanging on for dear life with the left. I was 3/4 outta that cart and needed a underwear change!:ohdear: A lap bel would have kept me in.

In fact you see standard on most zero turn mowers

I miss DOUGS! BAD! Ready to head home for a fix!

[rubicon]

A Honda Gold Wing now has a Air Bag Option. My training in MC saftey said our only protection was common sense, being aware at all times of the other driver and upcoming possibilities. Knowing your machine and how to stop it or lay it down. And the leather riding gear on your body combined with gloves and a Helmet.

Tee Shirts, Flower pot skull cap fake Helmets or your bare mellon don't work. Hit the road without riding gear and you look like you just lost a battle with a Ninja Blender.

Now the truth.:icon_wink:

Last year I was riding in a loaner cart while the wife was driving. Big smile on her face enjoying the ride. Then outta know where another cart pulled out of a rec center ran over the white plastic divider in the trail and then swerved into our lane. The wife over reacted and jerked the wheel. Next thing I know ole Herv's playing trim the shrubs with my right side and hanging on for dear life with the left. I was 3/4 outta that cart and needed a underwear change!:ohdear: A lap bel would have kept me in.

In fact you see standard on most zero turn mowers

I miss DOUGS! BAD! Ready to head home for a fix!

Your right If people really want to be safe in carts then they need roll over bars, air bages, heavier floor boards, etc...that is all i was trying to explain.

anyway if you get back home don't forget a stop atr Lasca's italian Restaraunt. My ex dentist, his son and nephew started that place. Hope it has remained at the level of quality it had the last time I visited. Their veal was top quality...hope it remained.

ciao

[CarGuys]

Ate there many times. Needed a truck to haul me home sooooooo full! Small world Thanks for the update Rubicon

[Joaniesmom]

CarGuys: You refer to your lovely spouse as "the wife?" In 2012? //////////////

[CarGuys]

CarGuys: You refer to your lovely spouse as "the wife?" In 2012? //////////////

Yep and she labled me PMS - Putting up with Men's S----

We don't play the kissie Love political correct game. Why are relationship is strong and good.

Out of the Lemon Tree of Life I got a Peach " The Wife " and I'm still driving " Miss Daisy"

[Ela48823]

who installs seatbelts? I am having trouble finding someone to install in my new EZGO cart with curtis cab. The dealer would not do this. Thank you

[Advogado]

If you guys will read the POA article and then do a search on TOTV and other web sites for 'deaths from golf carts in The Villages' you might change your mind. The fact is that the last 10 deaths of people in carts within TV have been from some sort of head injury. Either getting thrown from the cart and hit their head, or get run over by landscape truck or car, or hit their head on any other object. The video that Sumter county shows is not relevant to what happens around our town. Not one accident in the past 7 years that killed anyone was from a roll over where the cart crushed them. Not one. There have been some bad injuries from roll overs but no deaths in that time frame. I have seat belts in my cart and I use them unless I'm on the course.

I also think it's about time we challenged the conventional wisdom (thanks for starting this thread Ed) since we have real data on our side from these tragic deaths.
Agree with you. Here is the most authoritative study on the subject that I could find: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/05-0431-W.pdf

It is heavy reading, but the conclusion is the following:
In its final ruling NHTSA concluded that “the conjecture by some commenters that it would be valuable to be able to jump out of an LSV are unsubstantiated speculation that is especially unpersuasive given the volume of data showing that ejection is extremely dangerous and that seat belts are remarkably effective at preventing ejection” [2]. The' agency concluded that it is desirable to require seat belts in LSV’s."

That study and the POA accounts of golf cart accidents persuaded me to have lap belts installed on my cart. (Probably 3-point belts would be better, but I think you are then talking about real money.)

With respect to the posters who say that all you need to do to prevent being injured is to be careful: Being careful does not protect you from the morons driving carts or cars or trucks while talking on their cell phones, returning drunk from the town squares, or just being generally reckless.

[REDCART]

who installs seatbelts? I am having trouble finding someone to install in my new EZGO cart with curtis cab. The dealer would not do this. Thank you

Last February Advantage Golf Cars (near CR 101) installed retractable seat belts on our EZGo. The total charge was $139.10.

[Advogado]

Bingo! You have a vehicle made exclisively for golf courses and being used as a second vehicle. adding a seat belt alone will only exacerbate the safety issue. Again the POA action are resulting in unintened consequences.
As a side bar I believe the cost to install seat belts cost more than the $200 stated in a previous post. I need to follow up on this aspect for my satisifaction

Until I spent some time researching the matter, I shared your skepticism about retrofitted seat belts. After researching the matter, I paid $137.50 for two lap belts at the EZ GO dealer in Buffalo Plaza. A good investment, I think. See my earlier post and the study linked therein.

[EdV]

Agree with you. Here is the most authoritative study on the subject that I could find: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/esv/esv19/05-0431-W.pdf

It is heavy reading, but the conclusion is the following:
In its final ruling NHTSA concluded that “the conjecture by some commenters that it would be valuable to be able to jump out of an LSV are unsubstantiated speculation that is especially unpersuasive given the volume of data showing that ejection is extremely dangerous and that seat belts are remarkably effective at preventing ejection” [2]. The' agency concluded that it is desirable to require seat belts in LSV’s."

That study and the POA accounts of golf cart accidents persuaded me to have lap belts installed on my cart. (Probably 3-point belts would be better, but I think you are then talking about real money.)

With respect to the posters who say that all you need to do to prevent being injured is to be careful: Being careful does not protect you from the morons driving carts or cars or trucks while talking on their cell phones, returning drunk from the town squares, or just being generally reckless.

Thanks for the link to the study and a wise chioce by you.

And here's a link to a short update in the Jan 2013 POA Bulletin (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201301.pdf).

[Indydealmaker]

It’s about time that the POA has finally decided to take issue with the Sherriff’s Department recommendation against using seat belts for golf carts in TV. They are raising issues and challenging the Sheriff’s Department to provide accident statistics to support their anti seatbelt position. Here is a link to the article (http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201207.pdf).

It makes no sense to me to apply the same standards for golf carts that are used exclusively on golf courses to those used in TV for transportation. Golf course carts are usually governed down to 14mph, travel mostly on unidirectional paths and soft fairways. The carts in TV are zipping in and out of traffic at 20mph, careening in and out of narrow two way tunnels, and dealing with other cars and trucks whose drivers think a stop sign means slow down a little.

The other day I watched a 6 year old hop into the passenger seat of a cart. His feet were a good 6 inches above the floor and he held onto his knees for support as the driver sped off down the road. It’s crazy. Please folks, get 3 point belts installed on your carts and use them on the streets of TV.
:agree:

[EdV]

Let me also revise my last sentence to “Please folks, get seat belts installed on your carts and use them on the streets of TV”. The 3 point style is probably not available for most carts, but even lap belts are better than no belts when driving in the streets of TV. And even if you choose not to use them, at least they'll be there for your grandkids.

[BobnBev]

Sounds like a good idea. Who installed yours and what was the $$$ total?

[EdV]

Just check with the cart vendors that advertise on this forum. Should be less than $150 or so.

[Indydealmaker]

Ed forgive me for being the one to point out the elephant in the room but since you are not a resident of TV do you think its right that you ought to be pushing suggestions that affect residents here?.....just saying

Huh!?

[duffysmom]

Rubicon a majority of the posters on TOTV are not residents. I for one value Ed's comments and have learned a lot from him. :ho:

[PennBF]

Over the past 5 years there have been a minimum of 2+ deaths from Cart accidents EACH YEAR. In 2012 there were approximately 6+ air lifted to Hospitals and about 12 taken to hospitals all from Cart Accidents. These are only the ones traceable. There has most likely been many more not reported or advertised. Carts ownership/usage has grown significantly over the past 5-6 years so the problem is going to just get worse. Along with seat belts it would very helpful if the Sheriff Office were more involved in managing the violations and ticketing those that totally don't care about safety. How many time has there been kids under 14 driving, some with multiple kids in the cart, how many have been ignoring the white lines to keep the cart in the lane and just pulled out into traffic, and so ons. Another serious problem are those who rent or come 6 months a year and think the cart is just fun and not a moving vehicle that can be dangerous if not driven properly and by responsible adults? Seat belts are a great idea but just one solution. Education and consquenses are what is needed...: Should add as an after thought how many times have you seen a guy leaning his leg out while driving or someone hanging their foot outside. The danger in this is if the foot hits the ground it is pulled up under the cart and a serious injury happens. oubowdown:

[travelguy]

check out the latest edition of the poa bulletin. listed are several accidents involving golf carts, particularly with bodily harm. one that really gets me is of a 61 year old driver with her 4 grandchildren with ages 9 down to 3 as passengers. and the 3 year old fell out of the cart when whe went around a corner. what was she doing with so many passengers, and no one was using a seat belt? seat belts are mandatory for autos, why not golf carts? and now I see that Rep. O'Toole is sponsoring a bill to allow LSV's to be deemed golf carts and therefore save the owners a lot of money in insurance. Ms. O'Toole...please get the priorities straight......passenger safety is infinitely more important than saving money on insurance.