BOND Question Anyone Familiar With this Situation

[KeepingItReal]

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[Pturner]

Hi KeepingIt,

Yes, them's the rules. There's only one time a year that you can pay the bond in full without penalty and that is in July. They send you a notice. Did you use a TV agent? If so, I'm very surprised you were not told.

BTW, welcome to TOTV.

[KeepingItReal]

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[Ragman]

Thanks much but our house was not even built until the end of August, we came down the end of October and closed November 11 and paid the bond in full at our closing PLUS another year's interest on money we don't owe.

I had almost the same time line as you.

Check your settlement statement and you'll see the bond payment as well as the assessments were prorated to your closing date (just like property taxes).

The cut-off for all bond payments is July. You could have waited until July to pay the bond at the same amount.

The VCDD staff was very helpful to me explaining the process. You might want to talk to them with an open mind before involving the government and lawyers in what is almost assuredly a losing proposition.

:wave:

[Villager Dude]

Is any part of the bond payment tax deductable ?

Thanks

[elevatorman]

The bond was most likely issued in 2009 or 2010. Go here and you can find your bond amortized by district & section (sec # is on your green ID card) Village Community Development Districts (http://www.districtgov.org/departments/Finance/amortization_sumter.aspx) The bond can only be paid once a year. If you had waited until July you would have paid the same amount.

[KeepingItReal]

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[Ragman]

Is any part of the bond payment tax deductable ?

Thanks

Sorry,no :yuck:

[The Shadow]

Problem is not a thing about the additional pro-rated year was disclosed to us by our agent even though we ask repeatedly. We were not privy to the closing numbers until after the deposit was made and then it was too late. If this information had been given to us then it would have been a decision for us to pay it or not. This may be VCCD policy but I want to know if it is in compliance with the state regulations for CDDs.

Did your agent disclose to you the on going IRS tax free bond issue and its potential negative effects on your investment? Did your agent tell you that you were not paying off the tax free bond? (That�s tax free to the bond holder.) Did your agent tell you part of your amenity fees are used to pay legal fees to deal with the IRS?

[KeepingItReal]

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[graciegirl]

Did your agent disclose to you the on going IRS tax free bond issue and its potential negative effects on your investment? Did your agent tell you that you were not paying off the tax free bond? (That’s tax free to the bond holder.) Did your agent tell you part of your amenity fees are used to pay legal fees to deal with the IRS?

Ongoing is right. Heading into the fifth year now and still no terrible bad thing .

And the amenity fees paying legal fees....where in the world did that come from?

Sometimes I wonder just what is the motivating force for this kind of negativity and scare tactics?

[graciegirl]

Thanks much but our house was not even built until the end of August, we came down the end of October and closed November 11 and paid the bond in full at our closing PLUS another year's interest on money we don't owe.

So your new home was a spec built home? Since you closed on it well after it was built? Or perhaps your home was started in August and you closed in November.
PTurner is right.
Everyone has the same rules about payment of the bond.

[ilovetv]

Ongoing is right. Heading into the fifth year now and still no terrible bad thing .

And the amenity feels paying legal fees....where in the world did that come from?

Sometimes I wonder just what is the motivating force for this kind of negativity and scare tactics?

It takes a really small person to want a new TV resident--and owner of what could well be one's lifetime dream home--to feel like they've "been had"...

....when for most people here, buying a home here has been one of the best decisions we've ever made.

[The Shadow]

Ongoing is right. Heading into the fifth year now and still no terrible bad thing .

And the amenity fees paying legal fees....where in the world did that come from?

Sometimes I wonder just what is the motivating force for this kind of negativity and scare tactics?

I am sorry the lawyers fighting the IRS get their money from where?

[bimmertl]

Ongoing is right. Heading into the fifth year now and still no terrible bad thing .

And the amenity fees paying legal fees....where in the world did that come from?

Sometimes I wonder just what is the motivating force for this kind of negativity and scare tactics?

Here's a link to the June POA newsletter. Page 4 makes it clear the legal fees in the ongoing IRS battle, which by now exceed $500,000, are being paid for by amenity fees.

http://www.poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201206.pdf

[mickey100]

Thanks bimmertl. Yes, our amenity fees are being used to pay the half million dollars in legal fees. The investigation has been going on for almost 5 years now and shows no sign of being resolved. Of course we all hope for a good outcome, but there are no guarantees and we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[zcaveman]

Hi KeepingIt,

Yes, them's the rules. There's only one time a year that you can pay the bond in full without penalty and that is in July. They send you a notice. Did you use a TV agent? If so, I'm very surprised you were not told.

BTW, welcome to TOTV.

I was under the impression that you could pay the bond off anytime up to July without incurring the interest charge for that year. The only reason to wait until July is that you could get some interest on the money in the bank before paying the bond off. If you waited until after the July cutoff you would have to pay that year's interest payment also.

Fronm the districtgov.org: http://www.districtgov.org/happening/index.aspx

Bond Payoff Cutoff Date Reminder

For those of you who received your Bond Payoff Notices back in May and might have set them aside to pay off your bond closer to the cutoff date, now is the time to dig out your notice if you intend to pay it off before the July 20th cutoff date.

Paying off your bond by July 20th will eliminate any further yearly bond assessments on your tax bill. However, if you pay your bond after the July 20th cut-off date, you will incur one last annual bond assessment on the November 2012 tax bill and your payoff amount will change. The payoff amount will be reduced by the amount of principle paid in the November 2012 tax bill assessment.

Our Bond Specialists are available to answer any questions you may have about the bond on your property. You may contact them at 352-751-3900 or you are welcome to come to the Districts’ Customer Service Center at 3201 Wedgewood Lane with your questions or bond payoffs.

Z

[graciegirl]

Here is a link to article in this month's POA Bulletin

A BRIEF CHRONOLOGY OF IRS VS. VCCDD AND SLCDD (http://poa4us.org/irschronology_poa.html#article3)

[KeepingItReal]

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[KeepingItReal]

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[ilovetv]

Knowing that about 80% of the homes for sale in TV belong to residents moving WITHIN the Villages (to down-size or up-size), and that the remaining bond principal transfers to the next owner and does not affect the listing price of the home, newbies might want to consider not paying off the bond in the first few years.

[mickey100]

The bond interest is charged a year in advance and billed to you in the fall for the coming year. Once July passes you are locked and must pay next year's interest even if you pay it off. You also pay a $107 administrative fee every year along with the nearly 7% interest on the bond amount which goes down only a couple hundred or so each year for quite a while.

In one of the article Janet Tutt said the amenity fee would not increase if the bond issue comes out adversley. How is that possibly correct if already the legal fees are being paid from amenities fees?

Good question!!!! Sure would seem like that money has to come from somewhere, so they must be cutting back on some service in order to pay it.

[Number 6]

My understanding is that the Amenity Fee is what we owners (S of 466 anyway) have agreed to pay the Developer for certain amenities. What it costs him to provide that is up to him. What I am saying is that there is no "pool" of funds to provide amenities as far as we owners are concerned. I suspect that the Developer makes a profit on providing amenities to the owners. What would be the Amenity Fee if the residents owned and maintained the amenities? The problem here is if we were to buy the hard assets from the Developer, the value would not be based on replacement cost of the assets, but the ability to collect certain Amenity Fees. That is why the cost seems so high.
Now I am not bashing the Developer as I knew what I was getting into. In fact my fear is that the residents will take control of all of the amenities and refuse to keep them up as well as the Devleoper. I understand the Developer's motive and that is to sell homes. The owners goal may be to reduce the Amenity Fee at he expense of upkeep.

[graciegirl]

I hope and pray I do not live long enough for the homeowners to take over the decision making here.

There is a constant barrage of negative posts against the developer and in my opinion it is motivated by his success, his wealth, his political leanings and contributions. As far as I know not one single person who I have met in the greater than four years that I have lived here has met the developer in person. We can only speculate about who he is and what his motives are.

I am a second generation German and we know clean. I know the man can't be all bad or he wouldn't keep this enormous place so clean, and so painted, and so kept up and give us so many beautiful rather than just functional things in our rec centers.

I am worried about some of the brand new posters in the last week or so who came on full of nasty insinuations about processes and procedures. I have to wonder if sometimes posters who constantly hammer about the greed and the monopoly and all that stuff aren't people who in some way are competitors of the owners here or stand somehow to gain if this place fails.

I am a 72 year old woman who is on her second house in The Villages and I never dreamed I could be this happy and so fulfilled and enjoy so much in this stage of my life. I wish with all my heart that every person who has worked hard enough to be able to retire could find this kind of place for themselves.

I am a real person and I WAS a cheerleader at Columbus South in 1957. So please don't yell at me. I am honest about this. I speak from my heart.

[zcaveman]

I was under the impression that you could pay the bond off anytime up to July without incurring the interest charge for that year. The only reason to wait until July is that you could get some interest on the money in the bank before paying the bond off. If you waited until after the July cutoff you would have to pay that year's interest payment also.

Fronm the districtgov.org: VCDD What's Happening (http://www.districtgov.org/happening/index.aspx)

Bond Payoff Cutoff Date Reminder

For those of you who received your Bond Payoff Notices back in May and might have set them aside to pay off your bond closer to the cutoff date, now is the time to dig out your notice if you intend to pay it off before the July 20th cutoff date.

Paying off your bond by July 20th will eliminate any further yearly bond assessments on your tax bill. However, if you pay your bond after the July 20th cut-off date, you will incur one last annual bond assessment on the November 2012 tax bill and your payoff amount will change. The payoff amount will be reduced by the amount of principle paid in the November 2012 tax bill assessment.

Our Bond Specialists are available to answer any questions you may have about the bond on your property. You may contact them at 352-751-3900 or you are welcome to come to the Districts� Customer Service Center at 3201 Wedgewood Lane with your questions or bond payoffs.

Z

Unfortunately NO, the interest is charged to you up front. In our case our house was not even built until late August, we had no opportunity to pay it off in JULY, we received no letter in May (of course). With all that we paid the bond in full at closing on November 08, 2011 and they want to and did tack on another $1,363.38 interest for October 01, 2011 thru September 30 , 2012 even though we don't even owe on our bond.

Have you called the number I mentioned above to see what they say about your problem?

[Bogie Shooter]

My understanding is that the Amenity Fee is what we owners (S of 466 anyway) have agreed to pay the Developer for certain amenities. What it costs him to provide that is up to him. What I am saying is that there is no "pool" of funds to provide amenities as far as we owners are concerned. I suspect that the Developer makes a profit on providing amenities to the owners. What would be the Amenity Fee if the residents owned and maintained the amenities? The problem here is if we were to buy the hard assets from the Developer, the value would not be based on replacement cost of the assets, but the ability to collect certain Amenity Fees. That is why the cost seems so high.
Now I am not bashing the Developer as I knew what I was getting into. In fact my fear is that the residents will take control of all of the amenities and refuse to keep them up as well as the Devleoper. I understand the Developer's motive and that is to sell homes. The owners goal may be to reduce the Amenity Fee at he expense of upkeep.

Isn't the purpose of the elected members of the Amenity Authority Committee to do just that...................administer the spending of amenity fees??? Granted it is only north of CR466 at this time but, it eventually will be south as well.

[tboy123golf]

Great post! The Villages is a true example of the saying - "you get what you pay for". It is truely the #1 retirement community.

I believe many of the negative comments toward the developer / family are from outsiders or those that are just negetive about everything. We are buildin a new home in community because we are happy with what the developed has created.

[ilovetv]

This IRS and bond matter has been discussed ad nauseaum in prior threads. Here's a good place to get your fill....especially looking at Misky's post #132 of this thread:

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/latest-development-irs-tax-exempt-bond-investigation-40713/index14.html#post377119