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Guest
07-28-2012, 11:06 AM
The following was copied from a lengthy Facebook post. It does not originate fom any biased Right or Left Wing Group or Publication. Quite eye opening for those among you who are willing to open their eyes.


How I lost my fear of Universal Health Care

When I moved to Canada in 2008, I was a die-hard conservative Republican. So when I found out that we were going to be covered by Canada’s Universal Health Care, I was somewhat disgusted. This meant we couldn’t choose our own health coverage, or even opt out if we wanted too. It also meant that abortion was covered by our taxes, something I had always believed was horrible. I believed based on my politics that government mandated health care was a violation of my freedom.

When I got pregnant shortly after moving, I was apprehensive. Would I even be able to have a home birth like I had experienced with my first 2 babies? Universal Health Care meant less choice right? So I would be forced to do whatever the medical system dictated regardless of my feelings, because of the government mandate. I even talked some of having my baby across the border in the US, where I could pay out of pocket for whatever birth I wanted. So imagine my surprise when I discovered that Midwives were not only covered by the Universal health care, they were encouraged! Even for hospital births. In Canada, Midwives and Dr's were both respected, and often worked together.


I went to my first Midwife appointment and sat in the waiting room looking at the wall of informational pamphlets. I never went to the Dr growing up, we didn’t have health insurance, and my parents preferred a conservative naturopathic doctor anyways. And the doctor I had used for my first 2 births was also a conservative Christian. So I had never seen information on birth control and STDs. One of the pamphlets read “Pregnant Unexpectedly?” so I picked it up, wondering what it would say. The pamphlet talked about adoption, parenthood, or abortion. It went through the basics of what each option would entail and ended by saying that these choices were up to you. I was horrified that they included abortion on the list of options, and fact that the pamphlet was so balanced instead of “pro-life.”


During my appointment that day, the midwife asked her initial round of questions including whether or not I had desired to become pregnant in the first place. Looking back I am not surprised she asked that, I was depressed at the time, (even though I did not list that on my medical chart) and very vocal about my views on birth control (it wasn’t OK, ever.) No wonder she felt like she should ask if I was happy to be having this baby. But I was angry about the whole thing. In my mind, freedom was being violated, my rights were being decided for me by the evils of Universal Health Care.


Fast forward a little past the Canadian births of my third and fourth babies. I had better prenatal care than I had ever had in the States. I came in regularly for appointments to check on my health and my babies’ health throughout my pregnancy, and I never had to worry about how much a test cost or how much the blood draw fee was. I didn't have to skip my ultrasound because of the expense. With my pregnancies in the States, I had limited my checkups to only a handful to keep costs down. When I went in to get the shot I needed because of my negative blood type, in Canada it was covered. In fact I got the recommended 2 doses instead of the more risky 1 dose because I didn’t have to worry about the expense. I had a wide array of options and flexibility when it came to my birth, and care providers that were more concerned with my health and the health of my baby than how much money they might make based on my birth, or what might impact their reputation best. When health care is universal, doctors are free to recommend and provide the best care for every patient instead of basing their care on what each patient can afford.


I found out that religious rights were still respected. The Catholic hospital in the area did not provide abortions, and they were not required too. I had an amazing medically safe birth, and excellent post-natal care with midwives who had to be trained, certified and approved by the medical system.


I started to feel differently about Universal government mandated and regulated Health care. I realized how many times my family had avoided hospital care because of our lack of coverage. When I mentioned to Canadians that I had been in a car accident as a teen and hadn’t gone into the hospital, they were shocked! Here, you always went to the hospital, just in case. And the back pain I had endured ever since would have been investigated and cared for with whatever X-rays, Physiotherapy or even Surgery that was needed, which would have been at no cost to me. In our particular province, even chiropractic care was provided after a car accident by the provincial care insurance.When I asked for prayers for my little brother who had been burned in an accident, they were all puzzled why the story did not include immediately rushing him to the hospital. When they asked me to clarify and I explained that many people in the States are not insured and they try to put off medical care unless absolutely needed, they literally could not comprehend such a thing.


I started to wonder why I had been so opposed to government mandated Universal Health care. Almost every western country in the world has Universal Insurance of some kind, except the USA. Here in Canada, everyone was covered. If they worked full-time, if they worked part-time, or if they were homeless and lived on the street, they were all entitled to the same level of care if they had a medical need. People actually went in for routine check-ups and caught many of their illnesses early, before they were too advanced to treat. People were free to quit a job they hated, or even start their own business without fear of losing their medical coverage. In fact, the only real complaint I heard about the Universal Health Care from the Canadians themselves, was that sometimes there could be a wait time before a particular medical service could be provided. But even that didn’t seem to be that bad to me, in the States most people had to wait for medical care, or even be denied based on their coverage. Depending on where one lived and how rural the area was, one's access to care could be limited, and that was regardless of what country one lived in. The only people guaranteed immediate and full service in the USA, were those with the best (and most expensive) health coverage or wads of cash they could blow. In Canada, the wait times were usually short, and applied to everyone regardless of wealth. If you were discontent with the wait time (and had the money to cover it) you could always travel out of the country to someplace where you could demand a particular service for a price. Personally, I never experienced excessive wait times, I was accepted for maternity care within a few days or weeks, I was able to find a family care provider nearby easily and quickly, and when a child needed to be brought in for a health concern I was always able to get an appointment within that week.


The only concern I was left with was the fact that abortion was covered by the Universal Health Care, and I still believed that was wrong. But as I lived there, I began to discover I had been misled in that understanding as well. Abortion wasn’t pushed as the only option by virtue of it being covered. It was just one of the options, same as it was in the USA. In fact, the percentage rates of abortion are far lower in Canada than they are in the USA, where abortion is often not covered by insurance and can be much harder to get. In 2008 Canada had an abortion rate of 15.2 per 1000 women (In other countries with government health care that number is even lower), and the USA had an abortion rate of 20.8 abortions per 1000 women.


And suddenly I could see why that was the case. With Universal coverage, a mother pregnant unexpectedly would still have health care for her pregnancy and birth even if she was unemployed, had to quit her job, or lost her job. If she was informed that she had a special needs baby on the way, she could rest assured knowing in Canada her child’s health care needs would be covered. Whether your child needs therapy, medicines, a caregiver, a wheelchair, or repeated surgeries, it would be covered by the health care system. Here, you never heard of parents joining the army just so their child's "pre-existing" health care needs could be covered. In fact, when a special needs person becomes an adult in Canada, they are eligible for a personal care assistant covered by the government. We saw far more developmentally or physically disabled persons out and about in Canada, than I ever see here in the USA. They would be getting their groceries at the store, doing their business at the bank, and even working job, all with their personal care assistant alongside them, encouraging them and helping them when they needed it. When my sister came up to visit, she even commented on how visible special needs people were when the lady smiling and waving while clearing tables at the Taco Bell with her caregiver clearly had Downs Syndrome.


I also discovered that the Canadian government looked out for its families in other ways. The country mandates one year of paid maternity leave, meaning a woman having a baby gets an entire year after the birth of her baby to recover and parent her new baby full-time, while still receiving 55% of her salary and her job back at the end of that year. Either parent can use the leave, so some split it, with one parent staying at home for 6 months and the other staying at home for 6 months. I could hardly believe my ears when I first heard it. In America, women routinely had to return to work after 6 weeks leave, many times unpaid. Many American women lost their jobs when becoming pregnant or having a baby. I knew people who had to go back to work 2 weeks after giving birth just to hang onto their job and continue making enough money to pay the bills. Also every child in Canada gets a monthly cash tax benefit. The wealthier families can put theirs into a savings account to pay for college someday (which also costs far less money in Canada by the way), the not so wealthy can use theirs to buy that car seat or even groceries. In the province we lived in, we also received a monthly day care supplement check for every child under school age. I made more money being a stay at home mom in Canada than I do in the States working a part-time close to a minimum wage job. And none of the things I listed here are considered “welfare” they are available to every Canadian regardless of income. For those with lower incomes than we had there are other supports in place as well.

If a woman gets pregnant unexpectedly in America, she has to worry about how she will get her own prenatal care, medical care for her child, whether or not she will be able to keep her job and how she will pay for daycare for her child so she can continue to support her family. In Canada those problems are eliminated or at least reduced. Where do you think a woman is more likely to feel supported in her decision to keep her baby, and therefore reduce abortions?


Since all of these benefits are available to everyone, I never heard Canadians talking about capping their incomes to remain lower income and not lose their government provided health coverage. Older people in Canada don’t have to clean out their assets to qualify for some Medicare or Social Security programs, I knew older people who went in for procedure after procedure, and we never heard about dwindling resources, kids paying for their parents medical expenses, or being forced to use up life insurance or funeral savings in order to get the health care they needed. I heard of inheritances being left even amongst the middle classes. Something I had only heard about in wealthy families in the USA.



And lest you think that the Canada system is draining the government resources, their budget is very close to balanced every year. They’ve had these programs for decades. Last year Canada’s national debt was 586 billion dollars, the USA has 15.5 trillion dollars in national debt. Canada has about one 10th the population of the US, so even accounting for size, the USA is almost 3 times more indebted. And lest you think that taxes are astronomical, our median income taxes each year were only slightly higher than they had been in the States, and we still got a large chunk of it back each year at tax time.


In the end, I don’t see Universal health care as an evil thing anymore.
Comparing the two systems, which one better values the life of each person?


Which system is truly more family friendly?

Guest
07-28-2012, 11:18 AM
Ridiculous!! First of all, we're past the time to worry about having babies. We are at the exact age where we need to worry about heart transplants, knee replacements, hip replacements, etc.. all which you will wait for for months on end. If their health care is so great they wouldn't be coming to the grand old USA for their surgeries. Just rubbish.

Guest
07-28-2012, 11:24 AM
Ridiculous!! First of all, we're past the time to worry about having babies. We are at the exact age where we need to worry about heart transplants, knee replacements, hip replacements, etc.. all which you will wait for for months on end. If their health care is so great they wouldn't be coming to the grand old USA for their surgeries. Just rubbish.

Wasn't suggesting you have a baby. Guess you missed the broader perspective.

Guest
07-28-2012, 11:33 AM
Ridiculous!! We are at the exact age where we need to worry about heart transplants, knee replacements, hip replacements, etc.. all which you will wait for for months on end. If their health care is so great they wouldn't be coming to the grand old USA for their surgeries. Just rubbish.

As a Canadian, I don't know anyone who has gone to the USA for surgery.

I'm curious ... do you have first-hand knowledge of the Canadian health care system?

Guest
07-28-2012, 01:12 PM
Ridiculous!! First of all, we're past the time to worry about having babies. We are at the exact age where we need to worry about heart transplants, knee replacements, hip replacements, etc.. all which you will wait for for months on end. If their health care is so great they wouldn't be coming to the grand old USA for their surgeries. Just rubbish.

Sounds like the typical right wing closed mind. BTW my children worry about babies, so I care about that, and would even if they weren't. Rubbish is a good word for this.

Guest
07-28-2012, 01:31 PM
This from Joe Posnanski's blog regarding the London Games Opening Ceremony:

For instance, there were hospital beds getting pushed around in odd patterns until they spelled words like “GOSH.” This made absolutely no sense to me. I have since learned that this was to honor the National Health Service — which the media guide says “more than any other unites our nation.” And GOSH stands for Great Ormond Street Children’s Hospital, which is where J.M. Barrie gave all his royalties from “Peter Pan.” So now it makes sense.

Oh those wild eyed liberal/progressive/marxist Brits. They "honor the National Health Service - which more than any other unites our nation". They need a good old dose of American independence where people who don't have insurance get inadequate preventive care, and then when things get really bad, they go to the emergency room, where the rest of us pay for them anyway. But by george, I choose my doctors and don't have to worry about a death panel.

Guest
07-28-2012, 02:00 PM
FYI I know that many seniors are having cataract surgery and I wanted to say that in Canada, our provincial health care cost for the surgery is covered whether it is in a hospital or an approved clinic. The basic lens for distance is covered also, but if you want a more specialized lens (eg. multifocal) then there is an surcharge. All related appointments are also covered, so the only additional cost would be possible parking and any upgrading a person might choose. If you have additional insurance, depending upon the policy, there is a % covered over and above the basic cost.

There is usually a wait of up to 3 months although some people who are in urgent need would probably be able to get surgery sooner.

We recognize that this is all possible because of our higher taxes, but we feel fortunate that we can all pool our resources and get the peace of mind that comes with our universal health care coverage. Even those of us, who don't go to doctors often, know that should a crisis arise, we will always have access to medical intervention and/or hospitalization and that is very reassuring.

My late MIL used to say that she was always grateful that she had the income that required her to pay taxes and we feel the same way. Thankfully as we age, there are still enough of us to cover the costs!


LW888

Guest
07-28-2012, 02:11 PM
Ridiculous!! First of all, we're past the time to worry about having babies. We are at the exact age where we need to worry about heart transplants, knee replacements, hip replacements, etc.. all which you will wait for for months on end. If their health care is so great they wouldn't be coming to the grand old USA for their surgeries. Just rubbish.


As a Canadian, I don't know anyone who has gone to the USA for surgery. I'm curious ... do you have first-hand knowledge of the Canadian health care system?

No doubt there will be a huge stress on any health care system with Boomers needing to have worn-out parts replaced.

But I ask again Hulababy, where do you get your information about the Canadian Health Care System?

Guest
07-28-2012, 02:32 PM
The Prime Minister (or some higher up) went to the U.S. a couple of years ago for surgery.

Guest
07-28-2012, 02:53 PM
The Prime Minister (or some higher up) went to the U.S. a couple of years ago for surgery.

The Canadian Prime Minister is like Obama, he's a Top Dog. No-one higher up except for God. :smiley:

There was a Provincial Premier that went to the US for heart surgery in 2010. And that caused a lot of press. In his case, I believe there was a new technique being pioneered in Florida, and he wanted to take advantage of that. It was widely reported as the Canadian Prime Minister, but that wasn't the case.

I have no doubt that there are some very wealthy Canadians who go the the USA for surgery. No doubt at all. But I think it is erroneous to think it happens frequently. Heck, if I were a Billionaire who needed an operation, I'd probably shop around all over the world for the best procedure.

Guest
07-28-2012, 03:20 PM
I know people who have gone the Mexico for dental work. Therefore Mexico must have superior dental care than the U.S.

Guest
07-28-2012, 03:23 PM
... and yet you have the Tea Party and the Republican scare-mongers saying there will be a huge medical doctor shortage because of the Affordable Care Act. All the doctors will quit because they will only get a pittance for all their work and we will have to rely on doctors from India.

Maybe the scare-mongers should check out the number of students studying medicine at the universities in the USA. Then report back here and tell us there is no one studying medicine and becoming medical doctors.

Shame on the Tea Party. They are a disgrace to the United States.

Guest
07-28-2012, 03:27 PM
If you study the polls, the majority of the majority of people who oppose The Affordable Care Act are people over age 65. They have their medicare, but don't want other people to have health care.

Guest
07-28-2012, 04:41 PM
... and yet you have the Tea Party and the Republican scare-mongers saying there will be a huge medical doctor shortage because of the Affordable Care Act. All the doctors will quit because they will only get a pittance for all their work and we will have to rely on doctors from India.

Maybe the scare-mongers should check out the number of students studying medicine at the universities in the USA. Then report back here and tell us there is no one studying medicine and becoming medical doctors.

Shame on the Tea Party. They are a disgrace to the United States.

Yea!

Guest
07-28-2012, 10:06 PM
"....Born and raised in Canada, I once believed that government health care is compassionate and equitable. It is neither.

My views changed in medical school. Yes, everyone in Canada is covered by a "single payer" -- the government. But Canadians wait for practically any procedure or diagnostic test or specialist consultation in the public system.

The problems were brought home when a relative had difficulty walking. He was in chronic pain. His doctor suggested a referral to a neurologist; an MRI would need to be done, then possibly a referral to another specialist. The wait would have stretched to roughly a year. If surgery was needed, the wait would be months more. Not wanting to stay confined to his house, he had the surgery done in the U.S., at the Mayo Clinic, and paid for it himself.

Such stories are common. For example, Sylvia de Vries, an Ontario woman, had a 40-pound fluid-filled tumor removed from her abdomen by an American surgeon in 2006. Her Michigan doctor estimated that she was within weeks of dying, but she was still on a wait list for a Canadian specialist.

Indeed, Canada's provincial governments themselves rely on American medicine. Between 2006 and 2008, Ontario sent more than 160 patients to New York and Michigan for emergency neurosurgery -- described by the Globe and Mail newspaper as "broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain."

Only half of ER patients are treated in a timely manner by national and international standards, according to a government study. The physician shortage is so severe that some towns hold lotteries, with the winners gaining access to the local doc.

Overall, according to a study published in Lancet Oncology last year, five-year cancer survival rates are higher in the U.S. than those in Canada. Based on data from the Joint Canada/U.S. Survey of Health (done by Statistics Canada and the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics), Americans have greater access to preventive screening tests and have higher treatment rates for chronic illnesses. No wonder: To limit the growth in health spending, governments restrict the supply of health care by rationing it through waiting......."

Canada's ObamaCare Precedent - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html)

Guest
07-28-2012, 10:29 PM
...

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:36 AM
I think the anger and the attacks of the "liberal" posters on this thread directed toward the conservative posters who actually were commenting on the OP is a bigger issue for me.


In other words, you don't have any ammunition to combat the support for The Affordable Care Act that the Canadian experiance suggests.

Guest
07-29-2012, 07:28 AM
If Obama thinks the Canadian healthcare system is so good, why did the Premier of Newfoundland, Danny Williams, travel to America for heart surgery????Williams was unapologetic about his decision to fly to Miami for treatment. He said "This was my heart, my choice and my health"

Likewise, former prime minister of Canada, Jean Chretien, flew to the U.S. to go to the Mayo clinic. so, if America offers the best treatments, why would we want to have socialized medicine as they have in Canada?? Or is it possible ObamaCare isn't just about socialized medicine???? If you look closely, you'll find it's really about the "redistribution of wealth" That's correct - comprehend the Nasty reality. Obamacare isn't about health care - it' about the government stealing from the "makers" and giving to the "takers" That's right you libs. Get in Line BEHIND someone else who hasn't paid a dime and doesn't belong in this country in the first place!! It's going be one long hell of a ride. let's hope maybe your gone before it begins!! If not, enjoy the ride!! And don't worry about it, you'll find out what's in the bill AFTER they pass it. Adios Amigo

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:07 PM
If Obama thinks the Canadian healthcare system is so good, why did the Premier of Newfoundland, Danny Williams, travel to America for heart surgery????Williams was unapologetic about his decision to fly to Miami for treatment. He said "This was my heart, my choice and my health" Likewise, former prime minister of Canada, Jean Chretien, flew to the U.S. to go to the Mayo clinic. so, if America offers the best treatments, why would we want to have socialized medicine as they have in Canada?? Or is it possible ObamaCare isn't just about socialized medicine???? If you look closely, you'll find it's really about the "redistribution of wealth" That's correct - comprehend the Nasty reality. Obamacare isn't about health care - it' about the government stealing from the "makers" and giving to the "takers" That's right you libs. Get in Line BEHIND someone else who hasn't paid a dime and doesn't belong in this country in the first place!! It's going be one long hell of a ride. let's hope maybe your gone before it begins!! If not, enjoy the ride!! And don't worry about it, you'll find out what's in the bill AFTER they pass it. Adios Amigo



There was a Provincial Premier (Danny Williams) that went to the US for heart surgery in 2010. And that caused a lot of press. In his case, I believe there was a new technique being pioneered in Florida, and he wanted to take advantage of that. It was widely reported as the Canadian Prime Minister, but that wasn't the case. I have no doubt that there are some very wealthy Canadians who go the the USA for surgery. No doubt at all. But I think it is erroneous to think it happens frequently. Heck, if I were a Billionaire who needed an operation, I'd probably shop around all over the world for the best procedure.

Just because a country like Canada has socialized medicine, it doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to the the latest and best medical techniques. Yesterday I posted about Canadians visiting other countries for medical advice or surgery (above post). There are probably some prominent Americans who have visited Europe to learn about new techniques. This is nothing new.

Socialized medicine works very well in Canada. But it's not perfect, it's expensive, and it's not easy to implement. I'm not sure that the US is ready for the challenges of implementation, or that the citizens are willing to be heavily taxed to support it.

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:35 PM
Wow! I can just envision how many liberals became speechless after the above mentioned commentary concerning th problems associated with Canada's single payer pla. The stories mimick those coming abroad from england, et al. I guess the best way you make the AffordableHealthCare Act adfordable is to deny many people treatment both those procedures deemed too expensive by the Act, those individuals deemed not to benefit from the procedure best on its cost and some procedures because it would create too high a frequency of use.

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:40 PM
In other words, you don't have any ammunition to combat the support for The Affordable Care Act that the Canadian experiance suggests.

I don't battle bullcrap. It's pointless.

The constant vitriol of the "liberals" to conservative posters is here and real, and much more pertinent to this forum; IMHO.

But most here know how I view the unconstitutional decision of the Supreme Court, particularly the absurd explanation of InJustice Roberts, to pass this unconstitutional law by redefining a penalty to a tax (which is still a penalty). which is traitorous to the Constitution and that's all I'll discuss about this unconstitutional law.

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:45 PM
Just because a country like Canada has socialized medicine, it doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to the the latest and best medical techniques. Yesterday I posted about Canadians visiting other countries for medical advice or surgery (above post). There are probably some prominent Americans who have visited Europe to learn about new techniques. This is nothing new.

Socialized medicine works very well in Canada. But it's not perfect, it's expensive, and it's not easy to implement. I'm not sure that the US is ready for the challenges of implementation, or that the citizens are willing to be heavily taxed to support it.

Good post. A question I have that I think is relevant here is this:

About 50% of Americans pay no federal income tax at all. Is this a similar circumstance in Canada, where half of national healthcare consumers "have no skin in the game", and therefore they do not care if those taxes are increased hugely on those who do pay?

Why do half of all Americans pay no federal income taxes? - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/why-do-half-of-all-americans-pay-no-federal-income-taxes/2011/07/11/gIQA8olBuI_blog.html)

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:46 PM
Just because a country like Canada has socialized medicine, it doesn't mean they have exclusive rights to the the latest and best medical techniques. Yesterday I posted about Canadians visiting other countries for medical advice or surgery (above post). There are probably some prominent Americans who have visited Europe to learn about new techniques. This is nothing new.

Socialized medicine works very well in Canada. But it's not perfect, it's expensive, and it's not easy to implement. I'm not sure that the US is ready for the challenges of implementation, or that the citizens are willing to be heavily taxed to support it.

Expensive?.......hard to implement?...........heavily taxed populace?...........decline in medical innovation?............decline in number of doctors?...............bureaucrats deciding efficacy of further medical treatment?..............lengthy waits for doctor's appointments?.............Ohhh, we can't wait.

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:48 PM
I don't battle bullcrap. It's pointless.

The constant vitriol of the "liberals" to conservative posters is here and real, and much more pertinent to this forum; IMHO.

But most here know how I view the unconstitutional decision of the Supreme Court, particularly the absurd explanation of InJustice Roberts, to pass this unconstitutional law by redefining a penalty to a tax (which is still a penalty). which is traitorous to the Constitution and that's all I'll discuss about this unconstitutional law.

Correct me if I'm wrong (undoubtedly the most unecessary comment I have ever typed), but haven't you been critical of the name-calling by posters like buggy, dale, waynet etc.? Seems in the past few weeks you have embraced the name calling - The Amateur, marxists, InJustice Roberts come to mind. Is it just liberals or others with whom you disagree, coming up with cutesy or inflammatory names that is troubling to you?

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:52 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong (undoubtedly the most unecessary comment I have ever typed), but haven't you been critical of the name-calling by posters like buggy, dale, waynet etc.? Seems in the past few weeks you have embraced the name calling - The Amateur, marxists, InJustice Roberts come to mind. Is it just liberals or others with whom you disagree, coming up with cutesy or inflammatory names that is troubling to you?

It has been going on for years and very insulting to other forum members.

Guest
07-29-2012, 05:59 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong (undoubtedly the most unecessary comment I have ever typed), but haven't you been critical of the name-calling by posters like buggy, dale, waynet etc.? Seems in the past few weeks you have embraced the name calling - The Amateur, marxists, InJustice Roberts come to mind. Is it just liberals or others with whom you disagree, coming up with cutesy or inflammatory names that is troubling to you?

I've been talking about the attacks on the posters of conservative ideas here, for lack of an intelligent answer on this forum, and not of the public figures that are the subjects of these threads.

You haven't been paying attention.

Guest
07-29-2012, 06:02 PM
It has been going on for years and very insulting to other forum members.


FOR YEARS!!............FOR YEARS......

Aren't you some new addition to this forum??

Every post I've posted that alluded to you being someone who's been here before under many different names has been deleted, as will this one no doubt.

Maybe I was just mistaken...............but how would a really new poster like you know about anything on this forum that's allegedly been going on for years?

Guest
07-29-2012, 08:04 PM
Expensive?.......hard to implement?...........heavily taxed populace?...........decline in medical innovation?............decline in number of doctors?...............bureaucrats deciding efficacy of further medical treatment?..............lengthy waits for doctor's appointments?.............Ohhh, we can't wait.

Just scare tactics by the reactionary right wingers. Do not believe a word of it.

Reactionary right wingers seem to think they know the answers to situtations that have not arisen. Must be nice to be clairvoyant. You would be a great addition to the Psychic Hotline at 99 cents per minute.

Hey, that is the Obama Administration creating a job for you, Richie! :1rotfl::clap2:

Guest
07-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Just scare tactics by the reactionary right wingers. Do not believe a word of it.

Reactionary right wingers seem to think they know the answers to situtations that have not arisen. Must be nice to be clairvoyant. You would be a great addition to the Psychic Hotline at 99 cents per minute.

Hey, that is the Obama Administration creating a job for you, Richie! :1rotfl::clap2:

Don't have to be clairvoyant; just have to be educated. You can attain that lofty goal by reading. Try reading outside the leftist approved box.

I'll exercise a bit of futility in posting some links, you won't read, that might educate you, if you did, to what's being predicted. Unlike you, I don't take people's words for things, especially this President, and I tend to read just a bit.


RealClearPolitics - Dems' Health Care Plans Mean Lower Quality, Long Waits (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/30/obamacare_means_lower_quality_long_waits_106553.ht ml)

Obamacare Expected to Increase Loss of Doctor-Owned Practices | Heartlander Magazine (http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/obamacare-expected-increase-loss-doctor-owned-practices)

EconomicPolicyJournal.com: Why Life Expectancy Will Decline Under ObamaCare (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/06/why-life-expectancy-will-decline-under.html)

Why Obamacare's Medicaid Expansion Will Reduce Health Care Access - Megan McArdle - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-obamacares-medicaid-expansion-will-reduce-health-care-access/254275/)

CBO: Obamacare Will Spend More, Tax More, and Reduce the Deficit Less Than We Previously Thought - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/07/27/cbo-obamacare-will-spend-more-tax-more-and-reduce-the-deficit-less-than-we-previously-thought/)

Poll: 59 Percent of Businesses Say ObamaCare 'Step in Wrong Direction' | CNSNews.com (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/poll-59-percent-businesses-say-obamacare-step-wrong-direction)

Guest
08-09-2012, 08:34 AM
Ridiculous!! First of all, we're past the time to worry about having babies. We are at the exact age where we need to worry about heart transplants, knee replacements, hip replacements, etc.. all which you will wait for for months on end. If their health care is so great they wouldn't be coming to the grand old USA for their surgeries. Just rubbish.

You're believing a lie.

Google the term "medical tourism".

By demographics, approximately 10 times as many people should be coming to the US from other countries than go to other countries FROM the US.

The reality is that 10 times as many people LEAVE the US for medical procedures as come here from foreign countries.

Heck, two people who are working in my department *in the Air Force*, were flying to Mexico for dental work because even after air fare, the price was cheaper. (One cancelled due to escalating violence near the airport she was flying to)

Guest
08-09-2012, 04:48 PM
If you study the polls, the majority of the majority of people who oppose The Affordable Care Act are people over age 65. They have their Medicare, but don't want other people to have health care.

Janmcn: You make a good point. Medicare is a type (hybrid) of Universal Health Care for those 65 and older. Can you imagine not having Medicare? I know that I am opening myself up to criticism from my conservative friends but I have tried to keep an open mind about so called Universal Health Care. I am not a fan of the affordable Care Act but some things make sense to me: First, coverage for pre-existing conditions. Why should a person of modest means have to spend all of his/her life savings on a health problem that an insurance company will not cover? I also like the fact that my Son can keep my grandson on his health policy until he is 26 and finished his education. I don't care for the so called "tax" for not taking out health insurance and I'm afraid of the impact on small business. That was a bad compromise.

I can remember when I was about 14 and my father's place of employment closed. Our family had no health insurance for a while. Lucky it didn't wipe out what little our family possessed.

Finally, most of us who have muddled through the health care system with a complicated health issue have seen first hand what a "mess" the system currently is in. So much paperwork and so much to try and understand in the so called "billing system." When my Mother passed away after a long illness and my sister and I trying to understand what was what---impossible!

Health care is a very complicated subject. We all have our biases and ideology regarding Government involvement in our lives. Besides being a conservative, I am a realist. Obamacare will probably not be abolished even by President Romney. Unless, unless the Senate is also won. I'm hoping that Romney, Advisor's and staff will come up with a viable alternative for Health Care Reform because in my book it is badly needed. "He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help." A. Lincoln

Guest
08-09-2012, 05:04 PM
There is a website that I will try to find that will tell the posters on this forum what insurance will cost them under the state exchanges. My sister told me about it, and she found out her $500.00 per month healthcare will be cut by 40%. You just plug in your income and your zip code. Anybody know what it is?

Guest
08-09-2012, 05:08 PM
There is a website that I will try to find that will tell the posters on this forum what insurance will cost them under the state exchanges. My sister told me about it, and she found out her $500.00 per month healthcare will be cut by 40%. You just plug in your income and your zip code. Anybody know what it is?

I understand that Florida, Texas and some other States are refusing to setup Exchanges. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Guest
08-09-2012, 05:13 PM
There is a website that I will try to find that will tell the posters on this forum what insurance will cost them under the state exchanges. My sister told me about it, and she found out her $500.00 per month healthcare will be cut by 40%. You just plug in your income and your zip code. Anybody know what it is?

Do not know if this is what you are looking for but it is a start..

Search Results | Best Health Insurance Plans | US News (http://health.usnews.com/health-insurance/search?state=florida&zip=32162&county=marion&coverage=individual&dob=1952-06-15&sex=m&tobacco=n&)

Once you enter your info it will direct you to another site

Guest
08-09-2012, 05:54 PM
I understand that Florida, Texas and some other States are refusing to setup Exchanges. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct that Florida is refusing to set up Exchanges, which means the federal government will come in and set them up for them.

Guest
08-10-2012, 11:41 AM
There is a website that I will try to find that will tell the posters on this forum what insurance will cost them under the state exchanges. My sister told me about it, and she found out her $500.00 per month healthcare will be cut by 40%. You just plug in your income and your zip code. Anybody know what it is?

Whenever Congress "helps" with a price decrease of 40% for one group, you can be sure there is an increase of about 80% for the group that is actually working and paying in the taxes.

Guest
08-10-2012, 11:45 AM
Faulty.

Guest
08-10-2012, 07:01 PM
There is a website that I will try to find that will tell the posters on this forum what insurance will cost them under the state exchanges. My sister told me about it, and she found out her $500.00 per month healthcare will be cut by 40%. You just plug in your income and your zip code. Anybody know what it is?

I'm sorry that I can't be more helpful as I don't know the actual website address but the Washington Post has an interactive function that provides information of what you should expect to pay for health insurance once the exchanges are implemented. You enter your income and family size and it provides information on cost of insurance, cost of deductibles and other relevant features of the ACA. This function often appears on the same page as news stories re: the ACA.

While I am awaiting full implementation in 2014, for 2012 my health insurance costs have been reduced by 13% thanks to the ACA and I am very grateful for that. When my health insurance costs me more than $6000 per year, this 13% reduction is not "chump change" and has only happened thanks to enactment of the ACA. BTW - Two things - 1. This 13% did not come from any taxpayer money but came from the insurance company - and actually as a direct result of what I paid to them. 2. Health insurance costs are second highest (only to my mortgage) is my monthly expenses.

Guest
08-10-2012, 07:18 PM
The idea that the government is going to control health care and insurnce combined is a very very scary think. Projection costs already have about double. Doctors in general say they will bail out. Medicare and medicaid willl all be rolled into one plan and people are saying they can await ObamaCare. What can one say that's post modernism thinking:ohdear:

Guest
08-10-2012, 07:45 PM
The idea that the government is going to control health care and insurnce combined is a very very scary think. Projection costs already have about double. Doctors in general say they will bail out. Medicare and medicaid willl all be rolled into one plan and people are saying they can await ObamaCare. What can one say that's post modernism thinking:ohdear:

It sounds as though the scare techniques of the Tea Party has got to you. The statement of "doctors in general say they will bail out" is overblown. The "poll" taken by the Tea Party of doctors at retirement age showed that doctors of retirement age are going to think of retirement. Why not? There are plenty of younger doctors and students in medical schools to take their paces. Do not worry. Do not believe the claptrap from the Tea Party.

Chances are, Rubicon, you will not notice any difference with your healthcare from what you have right now. You get along good now, it will continue. Just think that you cannot be dropped from your health insurance if you get sick or old. That is a very good thing. Lots of plusses will take place for you. You cannot be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions.

Guest
08-10-2012, 08:15 PM
It sounds as though the scare techniques of the Tea Party has got to you. The statement of "doctors in general say they will bail out" is overblown. The "poll" taken by the Tea Party of doctors at retirement age showed that doctors of retirement age are going to think of retirement. Why not? There are plenty of younger doctors and students in medical schools to take their paces. Do not worry. Do not believe the claptrap from the Tea Party.

Chances are, Rubicon, you will not notice any difference with your healthcare from what you have right now. You get along good now, it will continue. Just think that you cannot be dropped from your health insurance if you get sick or old. That is a very good thing. Lots of plusses will take place for you. You cannot be denied health insurance for pre-existing conditions.

Once again, and nobody seems to care about this, nice benefits maybe, BUT HOW DO WE PAY FOR IT ?????

CBO has already jacked up the cost of this unread bill and it WILL rise and they will tell you that the cost will rise.

Nobody, like children at Christmas, want to address how anyone can afford this law. I have listed what the law says in regards to paying for it on a number of occassions and shown how it is ALL.....ifs and maybes.

If we cannot afford anything now, how do we add this to the country and pay for it. There WILL BE A BILL GUYS !!! IT IS NOT FREE !!!

And just a smattering of comments on Doctors...I sure cant, as you seem to think you can, predict the future but there is concern...

From the Washinton Post..

"he health-care reform law is accelerating a shift away from private practices as doctors, fearful of new costs and regulations, “run for cover” under the protection of large hospitals"

Health-care law driving doctors away from small practices, toward hospital employment - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/health-care-law-driving-doctors-away-from-small-practices-toward-hospital-employment/2012/07/19/gJQALB9bwW_story.html)

From CNN....

" When the Supreme Court upheld the Affordable Care Act in a 5-4 ruling Thursday, the American Medical Association was quick to release a statement in support of the "historic" decision that will give more people access to health coverage.

But (and there's always a "but") medical professionals across the country are wondering: When an additional 32 million Americans get medical insurance, who exactly is going to treat them?

"We've expressed some concerns before about whether or not we're going to have enough physicians out there," AMA President-Elect Ardis Hoven said.

They have good reason to worry.

Your health care is covered, but who's going to treat you? - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/29/health/doctor-shortage-affordable-care-act/index.html)

And someday, somehow, we need to address in this country what our President said this law would address and it does not, by his own admission.....the actual health care COSTS and TORT reform !

Guest
08-10-2012, 11:16 PM
Plenty of doctors left in the US to treat everyone. The 32 million people will not all be seeking healthcare at one time so it is not like having 32 milliion new patients. Anyhow, look at The Villages. We have a fast growing community. About 3 years ago, it was 67,000 and now it is about 89,000. Plenty of doctors here and also lots of specialists. Quite a few from India and other countries and they are all excellent.

Plenty of doctors will still graduate medical school and become healthcare providers.

Do not fall into the brew that the Tea Party tries to scare you with.

The attached link also tells some alternatives that are very interesting.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/13/christensen.doctors/index.html