Mediterranean Diet?

[jimbo2012]

Want more information of the health benefits of olive oil and the Mediterranean Diet? Check out the video below by Jeff Novick. about 8 min.

Olive Oil is NOT Health Food but Sick Food - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GfBKauKVi4M)

Ounce for ounce, olive oil is one of the most fattening, calorically dense foods on the planet. The bottom line is that oil will add fat to our already plump waistlines, heightening the risk of disease, including diabetes and heart attacks, says Dr. Joel Fuhrman.

Dr. Esselstyn agrees, stating that between 14 and 17% of olive oil is saturated, artery-clogging fat, every bit as aggressive in promoting heart disease as the saturated fat in roast beef.

“They (oils) contain saturated fat which immediately injures the endothelial lining of the arteries when eaten. It doesn’t matter whether it’s olive oil, corn oil, or any other kind of oil”, he says.

[asianthree]

what about coconut oil

[jimbo2012]

It's oil so same category, coconut milk is ok.

[pooh]

Jimbo, sounds like you're issuing diet advice without information on the patient.

[jimbo2012]

I'm not offering any advise, only options from my own experiences and what I've researched.

Nor am I referring to a patient.

I merely found an interesting video that I thought I would share, nothing more.

[Villages PL]

I agree that the standard American diet is way too high in saturated fat, especially from all the many animal products. And I agree that those who have a family history of heart disease must take special care to limit saturated fat.

However, I just remembered reading something years ago about the fact that we need some saturated fat in our diets. If we don't get any from our diets our bodies will manufacture it but it won't be as good as what we would get from food. It's important for the building of cell membranes and it also serves as fuel for your heart and other tissues. The bottom line: Saturated fats should be strictly limited but not completely eliminated.

The amount you would get from using a small amount of olive oil, for example, would not be harmful.

For a more complete explanation, search the following: "Why do you need saturated fat? Wiki answers.com"

[jimbo2012]

a small amount of olive oil, for example, would not be harmful.

For a more complete explanation, search the following: "Why do you need saturated fat? Wiki answers.com"

I'm going to disagree on that point, Wiki is great but not exactly a medical source.

a small amount is harmful, like a drop of gas on a fire.

see this little clip

[lightworker888]

Here is a link that will explain why some healthy fat is necessary. Coconut oil is the healthiest oil and is great for cooking. Use organic virgin coconut oil which is available in stores and on the internet. There are many references at the bottom of the article. See if the message resonates with you. I am also using it on my psorias spot and it is is clearing up. It also has anti fungal and anti viral properties so I think it is worth checking out. The first link is to the article and the second link is to the coconut research center.

LW888


The Great Fat Debate - Why Virgin Coconut Oil Is Best (http://www.naturalnews.com/022313.html)



Coconut Research Center Home Page (http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/)

[pooh]

Surely Jimbo is talking about adults in these diet discussions since children , especially very young children need additional nutrients he feels are not good for a body.
Am I correct in making that assumption, Jimbo?

[jimbo2012]

yes I agree, kids are a whole other topic, I don't speak to my gran kids about it, other than to say eat as many veggies as you want.

[pooh]

Here is a link that will explain why some healthy fat is necessary. Coconut oil is the healthiest oil and is great for cooking. Use organic virgin coconut oil which is available in stores and on the internet. There are many references at the bottom of the article. See if the message resonates with you. I am also using it on my psorias spot and it is is clearing up. It also has anti fungal and anti viral properties so I think it is worth checking out. The first link is to the article and the second link is to the coconut research center.

LW888


The Great Fat Debate - Why Virgin Coconut Oil Is Best (http://www.naturalnews.com/022313.html)



Coconut Research Center Home Page (http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/)

I have my virgin coconut oil in the fridge and a small amount with my cosmetics and facial products in the bathroom. It is a great face and hand moisturizer!
It's great to cook with, imparting no flavor to whatever you cook in it, however, I do like fried eggs and the coconut oil just doesn't give it the flavor a tiny bit of butter does... ;)

[Down Sized]

Diets and Politics are two subjects that will never be settled. All i can do is throw my two-cents worth in.
Two years ago I was 78 lbs. heavier than I am now. I started out with a salmond and salad diet, which is like the Mediterranean diet. The most important thing is get up and exercise, exercise, exercise. It doesn't matter what kind just keep moving. At the same time you can't go out in the Villages and eat every night, walk around Sumter Landing eating ice cream cones, or setting at Cody's for happy hour and eating specials everyday. That's what I was told was the cause of The Villages' 30. (weight gain the first year.) I wasn't told what the second year averag was.
I think some of that is probably more important than a spoon full of olive oil. Even though I don't use any oil. Only Pam Spray & that sparingly.
When a person looses several pounds and their joints quit hurting and they can bend over to tie their shoes, that is a life changing event & a big moral booster. Try it. I guarantee You'll like it.

[Villages PL]

Ounce for ounce, olive oil is one of the most fattening, calorically dense foods on the planet. The bottom line is that oil will add fat to our already plump waistlines, heightening the risk of disease, including diabetes and heart attacks, says Dr. Joel Fuhrman.

Yes, I agree with the above statement as it applies to the average overweight person that eats the standard American diet. But I don't. I'm at my lowest possible ideal weight. If I go any lower, I'd be underweight. So that doesn't apply to me.

Dr. Esselstyn agrees, stating that between 14 and 17% of olive oil is saturated, artery-clogging fat, every bit as aggressive in promoting heart disease as the saturated fat in roast beef.

I use 2 teaspoons of olive oil per day and that gives me less than 2 grams of saturated fat. I also use about 1/4 cup of walnuts and that gives me 2 grams of saturated fat. And I enjoy good health with lower than average blood pressure. Usually 100/50

I think you missed the essence of the link. He was critical of those who eat the standard American diet and then use olive oil and wine thinking it will make everything okay. It doesn't. I don't recall him ever saying that there's no safe amount of olive oil consumption when used in a vegan diet.

[jimbo2012]

"no safe amount of olive oil consumption when used in a vegan diet"

He does say that, in fact did in a conversation I had with him.

He stated - zero oil.

[jackz]

Average Life Expectancy: 81.86 years

Italians live an average of 3.37 years longer than Americans. Many experts draw a connection between their longevity and diet--which is more than just pasta, meat, and cheese. The Mediterranean diet is credited with lowering the risk for all sorts of diseases. The antioxidants found in olive oil and red wine--two key features of an Italian meal--can improve cholesterol, prevent blood clots, and stave off heart disease, according to the American Heart Association. Italians also rely on spices like basil, oregano, and garlic to flavor their cuisine, while Americans depend heavily on salt. As such, Italians improve their odds against high blood pressure and stroke

[De Lis]

Have known many Italians who ate the Med. Diet all their lives - didn't help one bit. It's mostly all about genes.

[Villages PL]

"no safe amount of olive oil consumption when used in a vegan diet"

He does say that, in fact did in a conversation I had with him.

He stated - zero oil.

Okay, but he (Novick) did say the following in the above film clip: "If you're eating a really healthy diet, can you get away with a little bit of olive oil? (Then he shrugs) But if you're eating an American diet, should you be putting olive oil on it? No!"

He didn't answer the first question but the assumption is, "yes", you can get away with it. But, for me, it's more than just getting away with it, I need the calories and some fat to utilize the fat soluble vitamins.

[jimbo2012]

Many experts draw a connection between their longevity and diet--which is more than just pasta, meat, and cheese. The Mediterranean diet is credited with lowering the risk for all sorts of diseases. The antioxidants found in olive oil and red wine--two key features of an Italian meal--can improve cholesterol, prevent blood clots, and stave off heart disease, according to the American Heart Association. Italians also rely on spices like basil, oregano, and garlic to flavor their cuisine, while Americans depend heavily on salt. As such, Italians improve their odds against high blood pressure and stroke

I'm going to disagree that oil can improve cholesterol, prevent blood clots, and stave off heart disease in Italy, can you please cite that info.

Cause of death
Coronary disease
Italy 19%
US 21%

Stroke
Italy 14%
US 7%

Diabetes
Italy 4.3%
US 3.6%

Stomach Cancer
Italy 2.47%
US .6%

High BP
Italy 7%
US 3%
Source (http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/italy-stroke)

Oh I agree with the wine :highfive:

[PR1234]

I'm with you Lightworker888....I have been using at least 4TBLSP of Coconut Oil a day for the last year, whether in cooking or even just eating a spoonful. It does wonders....Google and see all the great articles about it.:thumbup::thumbup:

[jimbo2012]

It does wonders....Google and see all the great articles about it

Goggle works both ways try "negative effects coconut oil"

It is better than other oils, but...

[graciegirl]

Pickle it first, add a little sugar at the end of cooking and drink a beer with it.

[jackz]

Jimbo,
The article I posted quotes the American Heart Association as the source.



QUOTE=jimbo2012;542463]I'm going to disagree that oil can improve cholesterol, prevent blood clots, and stave off heart disease in Italy, can you please cite that info.

Cause of death
Coronary disease
Italy 19%
US 21%

Stroke
Italy 14%
US 7%

Diabetes
Italy 4.3%
US 3.6%

Stomach Cancer
Italy 2.47%
US .6%

High BP
Italy 7%
US 3%
Source (http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/italy-stroke)

Oh I agree with the wine :highfive:[/QUOTE]

[lightworker888]

I looked up negative effects of coconut oil and here is a link. Seems that there is no definitive evidence and note that the naysayers or cautioners are those associated with FDA and the like, which always makes me leery of the motive.

Bad Effects Of Using Coconut Oil | LIVESTRONG.COM (http://www.livestrong.com/article/141282-bad-effects-using-coconut-oil/)

Seems that the argument re being a saturated fat is flawed as coconut oil has a different chain of molecules that make it different from other saturated fats. It may or may not be the "miracle" oil that some think of it as, but from all that I've read on both sides, it is still the only oil I use for cooking and I use olive oil for salads and uncooked uses. The one oil I stopped using years ago was canola oil, but that's another story!


LW888

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I just got Dr Esslestyn's book and am trying hard to follow his program. I have 3 stents in my coronary arteries and have put on a bit of weight over the past few years. I have read a lot of different books on nutrition and sometimes don't know what to believe. A few years back, Dr Atkins and Dr Agatston seemed to make a lot of sense and had studies to back up what they were saying. Prior to that I was trying to follow the sports nutrition program of Dr Robert Haas which was the complete opposite of what Atkins and Agatston had to say. Now I'm looking at Dr Esslestyn. It all makes complete sense, but it's very difficult to totally change the way that you've been eating for most of your life.
Are there a lot of people here in TV that follow Dr Esslestyn's diet? Maybe we can form an informal club.

No Oil -- Not Even Olive Oil! - YouTube

[Villages PL]

I'm going to disagree that oil can improve cholesterol, prevent blood clots, and stave off heart disease in Italy, can you please cite that info.

Dr. Earl Mindell R.PH., M.PH., PH.D, author of the Vitamin Bible, has stated that olive oil can help lower cholesterol. Olive oil was one of several food items listed for the purpose of lowering cholesterol. Dr. Mindell is a registered pharmacist.

Of course it goes without saying that some Italians can mess things up by overeating certain food items like spaghetti, meatballs and sausage. In other words, if they gain too much weight by overeating the wrong foods, olive oil and wine may not be enough to prevent disease.

[jimbo2012]

I have 3 stents in my coronary arteries and have put on a bit of weight over the past few years.
Are there a lot of people here in TV that follow Dr Esslestyn's diet? Maybe we can form an informal club.


:BigApplause:

You R about to see the biggest improvement in your coronary health starting in 3-4 weeks. The plaque will start to decrease, there have been documented patients that have completely opened up their blockages in under 30 months.

As to losing weight don't even think about it, eat as much as U want and U will lose anyway.

If U would like Dr. E contact info PM me.

Club? I may be interested in that.

[Barefoot]

... sometimes don't know what to believe.

You can find a book or a doctor or a fad or an internet source to support almost any position. There are no magic solutions, although you'll hear about a new one every day. I believe that living a joyful life will make you healthy.

[Villages PL]

Now I'm looking at Dr Esslestyn. It all makes complete sense, but it's very difficult to totally change the way that you've been eating for most of your life.

There's another one that may be easier to follow. It is: "The Cardiovascular Cure" by John P. Cooke PHD. You don't have to be a vegetarian or vegan to reverse heart disease. If I remember correctly, his book allows for small amounts of lean meat. (Maybe not red meat but perhaps chicken-breast and fish.)

[lightworker888]

I was about to say the same thing. My DH has been doing so much searching lately and depending on your filter, you can find a reason not to eat anything! We are currently back to watching our PH more closely and we are finding that 1tsp of baking soda, 1tsp of molasses in a cup of water which we split between us has really helped to get the PH consistently around 7.

When using the internet and deciding which path to follow, I have also found that it is necessary to check out more than one approach. That is why moderation is so important especially when we are hyped up about something. For me the 80-20 rule works best and helps to keep things in perspective. That being said, I know that it is easy to slip back if you haven't really embraced a particular lifestyle so we tend to go strict at first and then when we ease back we don't slip back as much. The only thing we have never gone back to was macrobiotic which I am sure is good for us, but I couldn't get excited about anything I ate and my DH really hated polenta. Now that there is so much out there about corn, it is probably just as well that we aren't eating it any more.

BTW I tried the baking soda and Apple Cider Vinegar for brushing teeth and removing plaque last night..........I'm a convert! It felt REALLY plaque free and squeaky clean.

[graciegirl]

Villages Pl. What is the motivation for the posting on here about the diet and health practices that you have chosen for yourself? Do you care about all of us? Are you concerned that your insurance rates will go up with all of our bad habits? Do you want to share your good information? Do you want to make a difference?

I have found with these sorts of things that I can only marginally influence the folks who are most tuned in to me.

I think it is interesting to know what others do about their diet and their health ....to a point...and that point is that I will consult the experts who guide my health issues; the institutions and doctors and medical experts who have saved my life and continued to guide my health choices.

I have noticed that seven or eight people are trying the vegan diet that you and Jimbo promote. I hope that makes you feel good.

Again I ask. What is your goal in talking about your diet on this forum?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

You can find a book or a doctor or a fad or an internet source to support almost any position. There are no magic solutions, although you'll hear about a new one every day. I believe that living a joyful life will make you healthy.

And you base that belief on what scientific evidence? Isn't that a magic solution?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Dr. Earl Mindell R.PH., M.PH., PH.D, author of the Vitamin Bible, has stated that olive oil can help lower cholesterol. Olive oil was one of several food items listed for the purpose of lowering cholesterol. Dr. Mindell is a registered pharmacist.

Of course it goes without saying that some Italians can mess things up by overeating certain food items like spaghetti, meatballs and sausage. In other words, if they gain too much weight by overeating the wrong foods, olive oil and wine may not be enough to prevent disease.

According to Dr Esslestyn some studies have shown a slight decrease in LDL and a slight increase in HDL connected to olive oil. But longer term studies and autopsies of the people in these studies have shown no difference in coronary artery disease between the people in these studies.

[Barefoot]

And you base that belief on what scientific evidence? Isn't that a magic solution?

No scientific evidence at all, no, not a bit. I don't think a joy-filled life is a magic solution or anything new! That style of living has probably been around for at least 3,000 years. But if you live a joy-filled life, even if you die young, you'll probably die happy. You won't find it promoted by Dr. Oz because he can't make any money from selling pills.

[jimbo2012]

Gracie, I'm only answering for myself not VillagePL,

This thread was about the Mediterranean Diet not vegan diet.

why you ask, simple only to allow others to investigate the benefits of a vegan diet with facts, not the writings of non qualified self proclaimed experts.

I have received PM's from folks here that thank me for bringing this to their attention.

I was first introduced be the books of Dr's. Dean Ornish Esseletyn and Campbell. These were the foundation of Bill Clinton's turn around in his diet.

I not only see the results in my wife and myself but other close family members and friends that changed the eating habits as have now several million in the USA.

Are there other diets that will help sure, the issue is do they help a little or lot.

Do what works for you if you like meat fine, do it, you're all adults.

Remember most vegans don't take any or very limited meds.


.

[jimbo2012]

There are no magic solutions, .

You said it, a vegan diet is not magic, it's too simple.

[Barefoot]

You said it, a vegan diet is not magic, it's too simple.

And Dr. Oz can't sell it in a pill.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

One of the problems that I'm finding is that it is sometimes difficult to find products that are recommended. For example it is very difficult to find non fat soy milk. I can find 1.5%. I did find some fat free, but it comes in small quantities and is vert expensive. Why is fat free cow's milk not allowed? It would seem to me that if the objective is to eliminate fat from the diet then fat free cow's milk would be better for you than 1.5% soy milk.

What about olives? I know that olive oil is prohibited, but what about olives? I find nothing in the book on that.

I also wonder why all oils are banned, but foods that contain those oils, such as corn are allowed. If I eat corn, am I not consuming corn oil?

I also have Dr Dean Ornish's book though I haven't read it yet. I understand that he allows egg whites and some other animal based proteins. Does anyone have any experience with the Ornish program?

[Villages PL]

Villages Pl. What is the motivation for the posting on here about the diet and health practices that you have chosen for yourself? Do you care about all of us? Are you concerned that your insurance rates will go up with all of our bad habits? Do you want to share your good information? Do you want to make a difference?

Why do baseball fans or baseball players like to talk about baseball? Why do people like to talk about books on the "book board"? Why do Villagers like to talk about the Villages?

I have found with these sorts of things that I can only marginally influence the folks who are most tuned in to me.

Sometimes one never knows how much someone else gets influenced. A few decades back I was restricting fat in my diet. That's because I kept hearing announcements on the radio that said, "eat less fat". Less? Less than what? And then one day I visted some friends and a woman told me, "you need some fat in your diet". Well, her suggestion didn't have an immediate effect but I always remembered it. And eventually I started reading a Zone book and learned how to consume some good fats in reasonable amounts.

I think it is interesting to know what others do about their diet and their health ....to a point...and that point is that I will consult the experts who guide my health issues; the institutions and doctors and medical experts who have saved my life and continued to guide my health choices.

Does that mean you depend on your medical doctor(s) for your nutritional/dietary advice? Is that your only source of information?

I have noticed that seven or eight people are trying the vegan diet that you and Jimbo promote. I hope that makes you feel good.

I'm not keeping score. And just because I'm a vegan doesn't mean everyone else has to be a vegan. You probably got that idea because I may have given the reasons why I think being a vegan is important for my health. I think it provides the lowest possible risk for all kinds of degenerative diseases. But if someone else decides to choose eating animal protein and doesn't mind the additional risk, that's their decision.

Again I ask. What is your goal in talking about your diet on this forum?

I explaned it above. What's your goal? Why are you here? What do you hope to accomplish?

[Villages PL]

According to Dr Esslestyn some studies have shown a slight decrease in LDL and a slight increase in HDL connected to olive oil. But longer term studies and autopsies of the people in these studies have shown no difference in coronary artery disease between the people in these studies.

Based on what you have said above, what does the longer term study prove? That cholesterol makes no difference in coronary artery disease?

[Villages PL]

One of the problems that I'm finding is that it is sometimes difficult to find products that are recommended. For example it is very difficult to find non fat soy milk. I can find 1.5%. I did find some fat free, but it comes in small quantities and is vert expensive. Why is fat free cow's milk not allowed? It would seem to me that if the objective is to eliminate fat from the diet then fat free cow's milk would be better for you than 1.5% soy milk.

Why do you need to drink any kind of milk? What is the point of it?

What about olives? I know that olive oil is prohibited, but what about olives? I find nothing in the book on that.

I had the same idea once until I read the nutrition label in the supermarket. The sodium content of olives is very high. The next time you go to the supermarket, read the label and see what you think.

I also wonder why all oils are banned, but foods that contain those oils, such as corn are allowed. If I eat corn, am I not consuming corn oil?

It's simply to keep fat consumption to a minimum. Whether it's necessary or not is another story.

I also have Dr Dean Ornish's book though I haven't read it yet. I understand that he allows egg whites and some other animal based proteins. Does anyone have any experience with the Ornish program?

I read a few of his books and I seem to remember that one of his books offered a choice of diet plans. And the idea is to pick one based on what you are trying to accomplish.

[lightworker888]

In one of the sources that my DH came across, I discovered an interesting fact that makes alot of sense to me in the larger picture. Apparently sand is in refined table salt and it is very abrasive in the arteries and the body sends cholesterol to the sites to stop the damage. In fact the H&L stand for High and Low in reference to the carriers of cholesterol, not the cholesterol itself.

We need cholesterol for many functions and if we stop using refined table salt and use unrefined sea salt (which is pink or grey and not white) then we would accumulate less cholesterol in our arteries.

Sodium in the processed foods and packaged foods are refined salts so even low sodium is the wrong kind of salt. We need salt in order to keep the potassium/sodium pump primed and balanced in our cells, so reducing table salt and using unrefined salt would be a health benefit. Redmond Real Salt, Celtic Salt or Himalayan sea salt are all good salts.

We take 1/2tsp in warm water every morning as soon as we get up and then I salt food liberally. All the essential minerals and trace elements are in the salt so you are getting a good natural source of nutrition.

Just some information that I thought was worth sharing. Also, watch the amount of soy you consume as it is next to impossible to get non-gmo soy and if you are anywhere near hypo thyroid it can really send you over the edge. There are so many other options that I avoid it as much as I can.

FWIW
LW888

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Why do you need to drink any kind of milk? What is the point of it?

I use it in cereal. It's also in several recipes in Dr Esselstyn's book.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

In one of the sources that my DH came across, I discovered an interesting fact that makes alot of sense to me in the larger picture. Apparently sand is in refined table salt and it is very abrasive in the arteries and the body sends cholesterol to the sites to stop the damage. In fact the H&L stand for High and Low in reference to the carriers of cholesterol, not the cholesterol itself.

We need cholesterol for many functions and if we stop using refined table salt and use unrefined sea salt (which is pink or grey and not white) then we would accumulate less cholesterol in our arteries.

Sodium in the processed foods and packaged foods are refined salts so even low sodium is the wrong kind of salt. We need salt in order to keep the potassium/sodium pump primed and balanced in our cells, so reducing table salt and using unrefined salt would be a health benefit. Redmond Real Salt, Celtic Salt or Himalayan sea salt are all good salts.

We take 1/2tsp in warm water every morning as soon as we get up and then I salt food liberally. All the essential minerals and trace elements are in the salt so you are getting a good natural source of nutrition.

Just some information that I thought was worth sharing. Also, watch the amount of soy you consume as it is next to impossible to get non-gmo soy and if you are anywhere near hypo thyroid it can really send you over the edge. There are so many other options that I avoid it as much as I can.

FWIW
LW888

What you say about refined vs unrefined may be true, but from what I understand the amount of salt that our bodies need is very, very small. So, I don't think that I'll be liberally salting my food.
Also, I have high blood pressure so doesn't even the unrefined salt increase blood pressure in those who suffer from hypertension?

[jimbo2012]

I use it in cereal. It's also in several recipes in Dr Esselstyn's book.

We use unsweetened almond or soy milk, Blue Diamond, or Pacific brands in wax container look on shelf not in fridg, but after opening must put in fridg. they cost about $2-$3 a quart.

We go to Publix, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, many other supermarkets.




Also, I have high blood pressure so doesn't even the unrefined salt increase blood pressure in those who suffer from hypertension?

Correct, remember you need to monitor your BP in a few weeks will start to drop.

In a few months you may need to talk to your Dr. about cutting down on your BP meds, look for slight dizzyness as a first sign, but if you get a inexpensive unit from a store try to take your BP and write it down several times a week.

The plaque in your body will start to decrease as it does the wall of all your blood vessels will be more flexible which is why your BP will drop.

[jimbo2012]

In one of the sources that my DH came across, I discovered an interesting fact that makes alot of sense to me in the larger picture. Apparently sand is in refined table salt and it is very abrasive in the arteries and the body sends cholesterol to the sites to stop the damage.

Never heard that before, please tell us the source of that info.

How does sand get absorbed into the blood stream, I find that difficult to how a solid grain can pass thru the cells.

Oil damages the arteries like that and plaque forms.

-------------

SALT in general

Salt-composed of sodium and chloride-is a mineral that is ubiquitous in the food supply. Unfortunately, this means that it is too easy to take in large quantities without even realizing it. We only need 1,500 mg per day, and yet, the average American consumes 3,466 mg daily. High amounts can lead to or exacerbate high blood pressure, can increase the risk of gastric cancer, and are taxing on the kidneys.

Many people are also salt-sensitive. A mere teaspoon of salt contains 2,300 mg of sodium, which is already more than our daily requirement. To prevent over consumption, limit processed foods, cheese, many restaurant dishes, and cook with as little salt as possible. Further, add the salt you cook with towards the end of cooking so the flavor will be noticeable. Remember that your palate quickly adjusts to how much salt you consume…the more you have, the more you need. It is easy to slowly wean off salt, and eventually, you will notice you don’t prefer salty foods.

[lightworker888]

Check out " Salt your way to Health" by Dr. Brownstein. It will give you all the info and you can watch on you tube also. He is the expert on salt and iodine, 2 of the nutrients that are both missing and misunderstood in our diets. If I had to choose, they would be the 2 I would include in my regimen as they are the hardest to get the amounts we need from just the food. The epidemic development of hypothyroidism and the misuse of real salt are key in the decline of our nations' general health.

Here are 2 links that will get you started. Be sure to check out the rest of the talks. The salt info on 2/4 of the first link is the one on salt that will directly answer your salt question. All the info is important on both talks so I encourage you to listen so you get the whole picture.

Salt & Iodine Enhance Your Health (1/4) - YouTube


Dr. David Brownstein on Iodine Part 1/3 - YouTube


LW888

[jimbo2012]

Why is fat free cow's milk not allowed? It would seem to me that if the objective is to eliminate fat from the diet then fat free cow's milk would be better for you than 1.5% soy milk.

It's an animal product, so no.

What about olives? I know that olive oil is prohibited, but what about olives? I find nothing in the book on that.

Very high in salt I think, but I suppose the oil in the olive itself not being processed may be ok, but I don't for sure.

I also wonder why all oils are banned, but foods that contain those oils, such as corn are allowed. If I eat corn, am I not consuming corn oil?


The oils are what contributed to your blockages they irritate the endothylium lining, building plaque it's in Dr. E books and DVD.

The corn used to make most oil is yellow dent corn, also called field corn—a different variety than the sweet corn you find at the grocery store. A medium ear of dent corn has about 4.74 grams of fat. Most of that is contained in the germ, the innermost part of the kernel. (A medium ear of sweet corn has about 1.06 grams of fat, though it still qualifies as low fat under FDA guidelines.)

It takes a lot of corn to make corn oil. A 56-pound bushel yields 1.6 pounds, or about 700 milliliters, of oil, says Shannon McNamara, spokeswoman for the Corn Refiners Association.

In corn refining , the kernel is separated into its component parts: the fiber-rich outer hull, the starch-and-protein-rich endosperm, and the oil-rich germ. To do this, the kernels are steeped in slightly acidified water, which loosens the hull and makes the endosperm swell up; then they’re ground coarsely. A centrifuge removes the lighter germ from the rest of the corn. The remaining grounds are passed through a series of screens. The endosperm, which grinds into small particles because it’s soft, passes through the screens. The larger pieces of hull stay behind.

After being cleaned and dried, the germ is pressed to extract the oil, much in the same way olives or canola seeds would be. Most producers then use a solvent such as hexane to extract more oil from the pressed germ.

----

Eating plants & veggies in a natural state our body digests the food the way our bodies were meant to.

[Villages PL]

In Jean Carper's book on Alzheimers (and age related memery loss), she devotes chapter 76 to olive oil. She starts by recalling all the many good effects that extra-virgin olive oil can have. For example, she said it's good for coagulation, cholesterol, blood pressure, strong bones and heart. And now there are studies to indicate that it helps fight mental decline and Alzheimer's. Everything, she said, is backed up by studies.

Jean Carper is a medical journalist with 23 books to her credit. The above chapter is from: "100 Simple Things You Can Do To Prevent Alzheimer's And Age-Related Memory Loss"

[jimbo2012]

I'm surprised that you quoted her work as though she was a qualified expert ie: a doctor or researcher.

She was a senior medical correspondent for CNN, but not a doctor.

She's simply a journalist, albeit a very good one.

[Villages PL]

I'm surprised that you quoted her work as though she was a qualified expert ie: a doctor or researcher.

Not true. I identified her as a medical jurnalist.

She was a senior medical correspondent for CNN, but not a doctor.

Having that position shows she was trusted to relay medical news from the medical community to the public.

[senior citizen]

Check out " Salt your way to Health" by Dr. Brownstein. It will give you all the info and you can watch on you tube also. He is the expert on salt and iodine, 2 of the nutrients that are both missing and misunderstood in our diets. If I had to choose, they would be the 2 I would include in my regimen as they are the hardest to get the amounts we need from just the food. The epidemic development of hypothyroidism and the misuse of real salt are key in the decline of our nations' general health.

Here are 2 links that will get you started. Be sure to check out the rest of the talks. The salt info on 2/4 of the first link is the one on salt that will directly answer your salt question. All the info is important on both talks so I encourage you to listen so you get the whole picture.

Salt & Iodine Enhance Your Health (1/4) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cho8yQt3Co8)


Dr. David Brownstein on Iodine Part 1/3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QCZAmXHqg&playnext=1&list=PL4CDBEDFE664D675F&feature=results_video)


LW888

I've read and "thought about" similar issues with regard to salt useage that your recent posts have explained........

Years ago, everyone knew that you needed the iodine and the salt to keep things balanced. Salt was a precious commodity in the past.

Similarly, we all knew we needed that winter or spring tonic that our grandmothers doled out in the form of cod liver oil.......and other natural remedies. Now, Vitamin D3 is big business in supplemental forms, when all one needs is a few minutes per day of sun exposure.....to get the much needed sunshine vitamin.

From babyhood today, kids are covered with floppy hats....sunglasses and slathered with sun block. WE all played out with none of that.

Might I add, that when the FEAR of skin cancer came in vogue and everyone began slathering sun screen all over themselves and their children........or staying out of the sun entirely, is when all the "rheumatism" type ailments became so prevalent.......now referred to as auto immune diseases............whereas in our "grannie's day" it was just part of the aging process.....and the winter aches and pains were normal.
Not in need of a specialist.

People of old knew that the sun was a healer. I know about the ozone layer, etc. ..........just saying. Everything in moderation. To ban everything is not good.

People didn't have so much STRESS worrying about everything in the old days. Even with most cancers, there is no pain until the very end.
We remember what it was like back in the '50s and '60's and even the early '70s.............no chemo, no radiation........more power to the ones now "fighting through" this terrible disease, however, oftentimes as we've seen with our own eyes...........it's the cure that causes the terrible symptoms that have to be dealt with.........and the prolonged suffering for some patients.

We saw a movie the other evening about a child who had been conceived just to have her organs harvested for her elder sister who had leukemia.
Sad story, but eventually, the teenaged older sister, dying of cancer, convinced the younger girl to become emancipated from being an organ and bone marrow donor to "save" her sister...........it really hit home what that poor teenager went through from early childhood. A surprise ending of sorts.........as even the lawyer had wondered why the younger sister had come to that decision alone.........."to everything there is a season"......people should not fear death which is just a transition.......

Obviously, there are all kinds of cancers, but we've seen the worst......and the potential cure and treatment that these folks went through was horrific.......they died anyway. Had they not gone through with the radiation and chemo.........their quality of life would have been much better. Even doctors know this, but they have to follow the rules of the hospital to which they belong. Nuff said.

[jimbo2012]

The U.S. Department of Agriculture lists typical sodium content for thousands of foods -- and some of these numbers may shock you:

Dehydrated onion soup mix (1 packet): 3,132 milligrams

Seasoned bread crumbs (1 cup): 2,111 milligrams

Spaghetti sauce (1 cup): 1,203 milligrams

Canned chicken noodle soup (1 cup): 1,106 milligrams

Frozen turkey and gravy (5 ounces): 787 milligrams

Canned cream-style corn (1 cup): 730 milligrams

Teriyaki sauce (1 tablespoon): 690 milligrams

Vegetable juice cocktail (1 cup): 653 milligrams

Beef or pork salami (2 slices): 604 milligrams

Canned jalapeno peppers (1/4 cup, solids and liquids): 434 milligrams

Read more: Salt Shockers: 10 High-Salt Foods You Don't Expect | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190914,00.html#ixzz24StFaJFp)

[senior citizen]

The U.S. Department of Agriculture lists typical sodium content for thousands of foods -- and some of these numbers may shock you:

Dehydrated onion soup mix (1 packet): 3,132 milligrams

Seasoned bread crumbs (1 cup): 2,111 milligrams

Spaghetti sauce (1 cup): 1,203 milligrams

Canned chicken noodle soup (1 cup): 1,106 milligrams

Frozen turkey and gravy (5 ounces): 787 milligrams

Canned cream-style corn (1 cup): 730 milligrams

Teriyaki sauce (1 tablespoon): 690 milligrams

Vegetable juice cocktail (1 cup): 653 milligrams

Beef or pork salami (2 slices): 604 milligrams

Canned jalapeno peppers (1/4 cup, solids and liquids): 434 milligrams

Read more: Salt Shockers: 10 High-Salt Foods You Don't Expect | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,190914,00.html#ixzz24StFaJFp)

Excellent post........all that sodium is in EVERYTHING.

BETTER TO COOK FROM SCRATCH.......add or not add salt as desired........

Processed foods all have HIGH SODIUM.

Restaurant foods all have high sodium. Not all restaurants cook from scratch.

Who doesn’t love a great cup of soup? It is a quick-lunch option, warm you up on a cold rainy day and just an all around yummy large meal alternative. Some do not always have time to cook a large pot of soup unless you set aside time to make it in the crock pot. So we go to quick alternatives like canned soup.

Minestrone Soup: each serving packs in 960 mg of sodium, yes, if you eat the whole can you have consumed 1,920 mg of sodium in just one little meal. A soup that only has 90 calories packs in the awful extra ingredients that we sometimes overlook basing everything on lower calorie and lower carb options.

In most processed foods, like processed soups, the manufacturing company packs in the sodium so that they can keep the freshness of the product until purchased from grocery shelves. Shelf life, I think I’d rather keep up my shelf life and not waste a few days because I consumed a sodium packed, quick fix soup.

BUT we do need some sodium in our diets, just how much do we need? Dietary Guidelines for Americans recommends limiting sodium to less than 2,300 mg a day or 1,500 mg if you’re age 51 or older and even less if you have chronic health issues.

Here is a list of some common high-sodium foods:

Breakfast Cereal – 50-60% more sodium than salty snack items
Chocolate Milk – High in sodium to extend the shelf life
Flavored Rice – Generally containing more than 700 mg of sodium per cup
Salad Dressings – 350 mg of sodium per serving (that’s just 2 tablespoons!)
Breakfast Pastries – 200 mg in just one pastry (yes, 1 DONUT)
Wheat Crackers – 340 mg of sodium (not all wheat crackers are even whole wheat, read your labels)
Cottage Cheese – Generally first on the list of high sodium foods at more than 400 mg of sodium per serving
We must have sodium for our bodies to work properly, but taking into consideration more often how much we consume may help you down the road. Hydration is also a very important part your body’s sodium levels and for proper kidney function.


So you may say, I eat healthy most of the time including my afternoon cottage cheese and fruit blend snack, and I just cannot understand why I keep gaining weight or why I am at a plateau? Consider this, excess sodium plays a major role in excess weight gain and water retention. Sodium may also be increasing the mass of white fat cells , which increase fourfold before dividing. High sodium may also create a condition known as hypertension or even metabolic syndrome.


Here are some ideas to help cut your excess sodium intake -
Instead of adding salt and premade flavoring seasonings to your dishes, consider adding fresh herbs that act as flavoring such as garlic, oregano, rosemary, cilantro, basil, etc.
If you must buy processed foods, read your labels. Choose more heart healthy options, which generally have reduced amounts of sodium and cholesterol. Also, don’t recognize those long ingredients? Chances are you probably don’t want to ingest it.
Low-fat and/or low-calorie DOES NOT always mean healthy! Low-fat is generally packed with more sugar additives and low-calorie can be packed with more sodium.
Choose fresh vegetables instead of frozen vegetables when possible. Frozen vegetables, though frozen, are still a processed food. Unless you are making a dish that requires an out of season vegetable, I would always opt for the fresh version and your dish will be packed with more flavor.
Limit your store-bought pickled items such as pickles, specialty olives, etc. These items are loaded with preservatives for their brine.
Lastly, FAST FOOD . . . Yes, we are all guilty of the occasional indulgence of fast food, but these meals contain enormous amounts of sodium along with added fat and calories that will blow your clean eating plan.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

It's dangerous to make blanket statements about anything. In any study that's done never do 100% of the study partcipates reap the benifits or show the negative side effects of whatever is being studied. Certain ethnic groups respond to medication or food or nutrition different than other ethnic groups. In some cases males respond different than females and so on. i have been part of an on going study (last 10 years) still unpublished. I consume 65% of my caloric intake a day in animal fats and plant oils. my arteries are clean as a whistle, I lost 50 pounds at the start of the study and have kept it off. And i have 7% body fat

[pooh]

It's dangerous to make blanket statements about anything. In any study that's done never do 100% of the study partcipates reap the benifits or show the negative side effects of whatever is being studied. Certain ethnic groups respond to medication or food or nutrition different than other ethnic groups. In some cases males respond different than females and so on. i have been part of an on going study (last 10 years) still unpublished. I consume 65% of my caloric intake a day in animal fats and plant oils. my arteries are clean as a whistle, I lost 50 pounds at the start of the study and have kept it off. And i have 7% body fat

Very interesting! Will the study continue much longer?

[Barefoot]

i have been part of an on going study (last 10 years) still unpublished. I consume 65% of my caloric intake a day in animal fats and plant oils. my arteries are clean as a whistle, I lost 50 pounds at the start of the study and have kept it off. And i have 7% body fat

Whoaaa Nellie ....I'm wondering what Jimbo and VP have to say about this post.:eek:

[Joaniesmom]

I have thoroughly read and considered every post in this thread. And there have been a lot of them! Thanks to everyone who have taken the time and thought to write. As a result I have decided to modify a lifelong rule which I have never broken. From here on in I will never discuss politics, religion or dietary rules with anyone.

Best wishes and happy eating to all!

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Very interesting! Will the study continue much longer?

It's a 20 year study. I of course have no idea what the results have been for any of the other particpates and of course like any study they can always publish and or end the study at any time. I just think it's dangerous to issue blanket statements about anything! responsible researchers will never issue statements stating all people should do this or that activity or protocol. When novice that base their advice to others from a few books or from research based on Google searches I think it's dangerous. Every one is different, every one reacts to the same stimulus differently.

[jimbo2012]

I consume 65% of my caloric intake a day in animal fats and plant oils. my arteries are clean as a whistle, I lost 50 pounds at the start of the study and have kept it off. And i have 7% body fat

Good for you.

Exactly what type of diet is this, how long are you on it?

How do you know your arteries are clean?

What tests did you have?

[graciegirl]

It's a 20 year study. I of course have no idea what the results have been for any of the other particpates and of course like any study they can always publish and or end the study at any time. I just think it's dangerous to issue blanket statements about anything! responsible researchers will never issue statements stating all people should do this or that activity or protocol. When novice that base their advice to others from a few books or from research based on Google searches I think it's dangerous. Every one is different, every one reacts to the same stimulus differently.

It is good to read your post. I agree completely.

I cringe when I read that a certain diet can prevent cancer. There are all kinds of variables in statements like that. We know that a good diet makes us healthier, but how extreme is too extreme for optimum good health?

Isn't it better to strive for more fruits and vegetables and less saturated fats in our diet and to up our exercise and moving about? I get the feeling from the two big vegan/vegetarian posters here that advocate this extreme diet that nothing else but theirs is a good enough life style.

I respect their sincere feelings and I admit that their postings has made me think twice about red meat, but we all need to be reasonable in our expectations for ourselves and others.

It is better to make improvement for the long term than to strive for the extreme and fail. It would be hard for most of us to eschew all meats and dairy and I am not convinced it is healthy-er.

[pooh]

It's a 20 year study. I of course have no idea what the results have been for any of the other particpates and of course like any study they can always publish and or end the study at any time. I just think it's dangerous to issue blanket statements about anything! responsible researchers will never issue statements stating all people should do this or that activity or protocol. When novice that base their advice to others from a few books or from research based on Google searches I think it's dangerous. Every one is different, every one reacts to the same stimulus differently.

Thank you, and I agree with all you've said. Continued success, for you, and all others taking part in this study. Hopefully when it is complete, data will provide an even better view of the correlation between diet, health and well being.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I agree that the standard American diet is way too high in saturated fat, especially from all the many animal products. And I agree that those who have a family history of heart disease must take special care to limit saturated fat.

However, I just remembered reading something years ago about the fact that we need some saturated fat in our diets. If we don't get any from our diets our bodies will manufacture it but it won't be as good as what we would get from food. It's important for the building of cell membranes and it also serves as fuel for your heart and other tissues. The bottom line: Saturated fats should be strictly limited but not completely eliminated.

The amount you would get from using a small amount of olive oil, for example, would not be harmful.

For a more complete explanation, search the following: "Why do you need saturated fat? Wiki answers.com"
From the Wiki article that you posted
Adequate consumption of unsaturated fats will indirectly provide the miniscule amount of saturated fat needed by the human body. Saturated fat can be very dangerous, and someone who's health necessitates vigilance in this matter should not be given a free pass to consume saturated fats, nor should they use palm oil as a healthy option.

[jimbo2012]

Isn't it better to strive for more fruits and vegetables and less saturated fats in our diet and to up our exercise and moving about? I get the feeling from the two big vegan/vegetarian posters here that advocate this extreme diet that nothing else but theirs is a good enough life style.

I never said that, I only offered to info and my results.
You can lead a horse to water...........

Extreme, not really millions are making the change.

It would be hard for most of us to eschew all meats and dairy and I am not convinced it is healthy-er.

It may be harder to deal with cancer or other ailments (with many meds) than eat better.

Gracie, did you yet read the two books or watch the dvd's I suggested yet?

Want an alternative, try a vegan diet with condiment size (2" x 2") portions of meat.

Dairy can easily be replaced.

[Villages PL]

It's dangerous to make blanket statements about anything.

If I say a vegan lifestyle is better than any other lifestyle, how dangerous can that be? Has anyone ever died in their attempt to become a vegan?


In any study that's done never do 100% of the study partcipates reap the benifits or show the negative side effects of whatever is being studied.

We assume a certain minimum level of knowledge about these things. Nothing is ever 100% when it comes to health and nutrition and everyone should know this.


Certain ethnic groups respond to medication or food or nutrition different than other ethnic groups. In some cases males respond different than females and so on.

Why mention medication? The mediterranean diet is about food, not medication. Ethnic groups: where's the proof that different ethnic groups respond differently to food and nutrition? And how many parents feed their daughters differently than they feed their sons? I never noticed it in my family or any other family.


i have been part of an on going study (last 10 years) still unpublished.

Does this study have a name? I'm in the "NIH AARP Diet and Health Study" and it's been going since 1995. They have already published severl papers in medical journals.


I consume 65% of my caloric intake a day in animal fats and plant oils. my arteries are clean as a whistle, I lost 50 pounds at the start of the study and have kept it off. And i have 7% body fat

Your health reminds me of the health my father had. He ate a good amount of meat, eggs, cheese etc every day. And at age 78 or 79 it was determined (by some type of body scan) that his arteries were "clean as a whistle". But his diet did not protect him from cancer and Alzheimer's. He had both at the same time and died from one or both of those diseases. I believe it said "cancer" on his death certificate.

So you need to find the diet that will give you the best protection from ALL degenerative diseases. In other words, you need to cover all the bases. For most people veganism will accomplish this. And, remember, it's never about 100% certainty, it's all about reducing risk.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

If I say a vegan lifestyle is better than any other lifestyle, how dangerous can that be? Has anyone ever died in their attempt to become a vegan?

*** the danger is in recommending anything without knowing someones medical issues. What are your qualifications for making this or any recommendations? are you licensed to pratice medicine? are you licensed to pratice anything?




We assume a certain minimum level of knowledge about these things. Nothing is ever 100% when it comes to health and nutrition and everyone should know this.

*** who assumes this knowelge?? you?? well that's a little dangerous for anyone that's not you. Again how did you attain this knowledge? What makes you qualified to say any more than this is what I do and it works for me?




Why mention medication? The mediterranean diet is about food, not medication. Ethnic groups: where's the proof that different ethnic groups respond differently to food and nutrition? And how many parents feed their daughters differently than they feed their sons? I never noticed it in my family or any other family.

*** For anyone that assumes a certain minimum level of knowledge you should then know that food is medicine and in fact many medicines come from products and / or by products of food we eat. After all you are talking about using food to impact your over all health




Does this study have a name? I'm in the "NIH AARP Diet and Health Study" and it's been going since 1995. They have already published severl papers in medical journals.

*** Not all studies are the same this study has a number not a name and the publication protcol is different for each study. Since I'm a subject of the study they didn't consult me on how or when they would publish




Your health reminds me of the health my father had. He ate a good amount of meat, eggs, cheese etc every day. And at age 78 or 79 it was determined (by some type of body scan) that his arteries were "clean as a whistle". But his diet did not protect him from cancer and Alzheimer's. He had both at the same time and died from one or both of those diseases. I believe it said "cancer" on his death certificate.

*** How do you know anything about my health?? I just gave you some basic information not my overall health. Guess what there are people that are vegan that also die from degenerative diseases. There are also people that drink and chain smoke cigarettes and live to be 100 so what's your point. Just because your father died from horrible diseases don't use that to make your point. Diet is not the only thing that may or may not contribute to diseases how about enviromental issues? I guess everyone has it wrong if you eat vegan you will live forever and never have a degenerative disease? Please show me the study that shows this result!

So you need to find the diet that will give you the best protection from ALL degenerative diseases. In other words, you need to cover all the bases. For most people veganism will accomplish that. And, remember, it's never about 100% certainty, it's all about reducing risk.

Again what makes you qualified to say veganism is the answer? It might be for you, but that doesn't make it right for everyone.

See*** answers above

[Cantwaittoarrive]

This discussion reminds me of an example that illustrates the futility of the (my way is the right way crowd). If you want to go from LA to New York City you can choose many, many different routes. You can choose to fly, you can choose to drive, take a train, run, walk, bike skip, take a ship and many other ways. You can head north, south, east or west. Some ways are slower, some are faster, some more fun, some not so much. But they will all eventualy get you to your destination. Who has the right to tell you one way is better than the other or your way is wrong and my way is correct. Part of the joy of life for me is trying different things, keeping an open mind and discovering there are always more than one answer that works.

[Barefoot]

This discussion reminds me of an example that illustrates the futility of the (my way is the right way crowd). If you want to go from LA to New York City you can choose many, many different routes. You can choose to fly, you can choose to drive, take a train, run, walk, bike skip, take a ship and many other ways. You can head north, south, east or west. Some ways are slower, some are faster, some more fun, some not so much. But they will all eventualy get you to your destination. Who has the right to tell you one way is better than the other or your way is wrong and my way is correct. Part of the joy of life for me is trying different things, keeping an open mind and discovering there are always more than one answer that works.

I love your perspective. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Villages PL]

I just think it's dangerous to issue blanket statements about anything! responsible researchers will never issue statements stating all people should do this or that activity or protocol. When novice that base their advice to others from a few books or from research based on Google searches I think it's dangerous. Every one is different, every one reacts to the same stimulus differently.

I don't recall anyone ever saying, "ALL people should do this or that activity". It's one thing to give an opinion that you think a certain diet is the most protective against degenerative diseases and to then back it up with large long-term studies, but where did the word "ALL" come from? Did someone on this thread say "ALL" people?

Before anyone criticizes someone for saying something, there should at least be someone who actually said it. If you can come up with the actual statement, we can then try to judge how it was intended.

My statement in the previous post was, "for MOST people veganism will accomplish this". The word "MOST" is different from saying "ALL". And, furthermore, it's nothing more than a suggestion. That's what the Medical And Health Disscussion Board is for. We discuss and make suggestions. As far as I know, no special qualifications are needed for discussion on this board.

Again I ask, "has anyone ever died attempting to become a vegan"?

[pooh]

.....

Again I ask, "has anyone ever died attempting to become a vegan"?

I will assume you mean adults, VPL and not children.

[Villages PL]

I will assume you mean adults, VPL and not children.

I think mother's milk is needed in the beginning for good growth and development. And that's not veganism. Also, if kids don't get some form of concentrated protein during their growing years, they will likely be shorter than average. But kids have been raised on vegan diets. For example, the author of "The China Study" raised his kids on a vegan diet and one son was a co-author of the book.

[pooh]

I think mother's milk is needed in the beginning for good growth and development. And that's not veganism. Also, if kids don't get some form of concentrated protein during their growing years, they will likely be shorter than average. But kids have been raised on vegan diets. For example, the author of "The China Study" raised his kids on a vegan diet and one son was a co-author of the book.

I probably should clarify, I'm talking about very young children, infants and children probably less than 2 years of age. Their nutritional needs are quite different and a vegan diet probably will not provide necessary, vital nutrients needed during critical growth periods.


The information you are providing is for adults, I have no doubt. Planning a vegan diet to meet the nutritional needs of an adult does take some initial planning to insure necessary vitamins, minerals, and adequate protein are provided so cells can function, repair and rebuild. It seems you are doing well making the correct nutritional choices to keep you healthy and happy.

[galeforce]

That was going to be my question too, what about coconut oil. I know you waid any oil but does that include coconut oil?

[jimbo2012]

That was going to be my question too, what about coconut oil. I know you waid any oil but does that include coconut oil?

Yes it irritates the endothelium lining as well as all other oils, if you want to reduce plaque in the arteries ALL oils need to be eliminated.

When irritated plaque adheres to the location and builds/blocks from there over several years.

Image shows the lining inside a blood vessel wall, they are only one cell in thickness and very fragile when exposed to oil.


http://wikipremed.com/image_science_archive_68/040602_68/337050_Anatomy_artery_68.jpg


Vascular endothelial cells line the entire circulatory system, from the heart to the smallest capillaries.
These cells have very distinct and unique functions that are paramount to vascular biology.

These functions include fluid filtration, such as in the glomeruli of the kidney, blood vessel tone, hemostasis, neutrophil recruitment, and hormone trafficking. Endothelium of the interior surfaces of the heart chambers are called endocardium.

Dr's Esseltyn and Ornish agree on this, I personally have benefited by eliminating oil from my diet in 7 months - big changes.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I don't recall anyone ever saying, "ALL people should do this or that activity". It's one thing to give an opinion that you think a certain diet is the most protective against degenerative diseases and to then back it up with large long-term studies, but where did the word "ALL" come from? Did someone on this thread say "ALL" people?

Before anyone criticizes someone for saying something, there should at least be someone who actually said it. If you can come up with the actual statement, we can then try to judge how it was intended.

My statement in the previous post was, "for MOST people veganism will accomplish this". The word "MOST" is different from saying "ALL". And, furthermore, it's nothing more than a suggestion. That's what the Medical And Health Disscussion Board is for. We discuss and make suggestions. As far as I know, no special qualifications are needed for discussion on this board.

Again I ask, "has anyone ever died attempting to become a vegan"?

First I didn't criticizen you for anything. My coment was not directed towards you or anything you said. If you feel guilty because what you were truely thinking is what I expressed I guess you should own those feeling. I asked you what makes you qualified to give advice. I think if you expect people to follow or listen to your advice, knowing what makes you qualified to give that advice is vital, otherwise you're dangerous and so is anyone else that gives advice on diet and health that isn't qualified to give it. I commented on the results of a study I'm in and for some reason you like to try and discredit anyone that isn't on the same path as you, that's so sad that you would be so insecure. I beleive there might be benefits to several different lifestyles including the vegan lifestyle.

But I stand by my statement that advice from unqualified people is dangerous!!

Any vegan moms PLEASE PLEASE don't breastfied your baby without consulting your doc and a lawyer!

Vegan breast feeding and death

BABY DEATH BY VEGANISM - 6 Vegan Baby Starvation Cases - Parents convicted of murder - INHS (http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html)
Baby Breastfed By Vegan Mother Dies (http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/baby-breastfed-by-vegan-mother-dies/)
[Severe vitamin B12 deficiency in infants brea... [Ugeskr Laeger. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19852900)
[Developmental delay in breastfed chil... [Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16553042)

Possible higher rates of breast cancer in women
Lessons from dietary studies in Adventists an... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12936947)

Danger caused by vegan diet
Strict vegan, low-calorie diet administered by careg... [Med Law. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16082865)

Answers for non-vegans
Twenty-Two Reasons Not to Go Vegetarian - Weston A Price Foundation (http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/not-to-go-vegetarian)
Articles showing benefits
Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets. [Proc Nutr Soc. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16441942)
Mortality in vegetarians and non-vegetari... [Public Health Nutr. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529)

Imagine that the Med and Vegan diet both have benefits how oh how can there be two good diets
Nut consumption, vegetarian diets, ischemic h... [Am J Clin Nutr. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479222)
Maybe eating meat doesn’t cause cancer, who knows for sure?
Risk of death from cancer and ischaemic heart disease in... [BMJ. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8025458)


Have fun I'm sure you will work to discredit each and everyone of these you don't agree with and we can go back and forth trading studies to support whatever position someone wants to but I'm done and actual have a life

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Yes it irritates the endothelium lining as well as all other oils, if you want to reduce plaque in the arteries ALL oils need to be eliminated.

When irritated plaque adheres to the location and builds/blocks from there over several years.

Image shows the lining inside a blood vessel wall, they are only one cell in thickness and very fragile when exposed to oil.


http://wikipremed.com/image_science_archive_68/040602_68/337050_Anatomy_artery_68.jpg


Vascular endothelial cells line the entire circulatory system, from the heart to the smallest capillaries.
These cells have very distinct and unique functions that are paramount to vascular biology.

These functions include fluid filtration, such as in the glomeruli of the kidney, blood vessel tone, hemostasis, neutrophil recruitment, and hormone trafficking. Endothelium of the interior surfaces of the heart chambers are called endocardium.

Dr's Esseltyn and Ornish agree on this, I personally have benefited by eliminating oil from my diet in 7 months - big changes.

Unless you are qualified please stop giving advice. Even the experts don't know the answers but you are passing them out like you actually are an expert at something besides using Google

Here’s one that says good
Coconut fats. [Ceylon Med J. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17180807)

Here’s one that says bad
Fatty acid composition and possible health... [West Indian Med J. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10948851)

[jimbo2012]

First of all I think you should be mindful that this is a forum, as such it is for an exchange of ideas and opinions.

I'm as free as you to express them.

No one herein is a self proclaimed expert.

Civility aside your personal attack is unwarranted.

[senior citizen]

[QUOTE=Cantwaittoarrive;550768]First I didn't criticizen you for anything. My coment was not directed towards you or anything you said. If you feel guilty because what you were truely thinking is what I expressed I guess you should own those feeling. I asked you want makes you qualified to give advice. I think if you expect people to follow or listen to your advice knowing what makes you qualified to give that advice, otherwise your dangerous and so is anyone else that gives advice on diet and health that isn't qualified to give it. I commented on the results of a study I'm in and for some reason you like to try and discredit anyone that isn't on the same path as you, that's so sad that you would be so insecure. I beleive there might be benefits to several different lifestyles including the vegan lifestyle.

But I stand by my statement that advice from unqualified people is dangerous!!



************************************************** ************************************************** ***********************************
DEAR cantwaittoarrive......

I've known a lot of folks who loved the all meat, fats, etc. diet of years ago.........and who thrived on it as a matter of fact.
For them, just eliminating all the starches and bread products worked like a charm..........

I always believe whatever people have personally experienced as that is their path in life......and if it's the right one for them........so be it.
However, like you, I know that other things work for other folks.

I also know that oftentimes the extremely health conscious type fanatics do not live any longer than an average happy go lucky person who doesn't dwell on their health 24/7.

Nothing in this world is black or white. There are all shades inbetween.
No one body is identical. People who have supposedly done everything "right" by the book re their health, still die young. No one lives forever.

I've tried to explain to the poster you are answering, that I've known plenty of vegans and vegetarians who died young, of cancer, even after following a rigid diet of healthful fruits and veggies and shunning all fatty foods, meats, etc. So, go figure. I don't have the answers, that's for sure........just know that everyone is different and exposed to many other things that might determine whether one continues to enjoy good health or experience bad health. All of my "vegans", etc. were athletes, so they were NOT couch potatoes. They also had cancer in their heredity background.

It may NOT be all about food but about the environment we all live in.
It may just be genetics..

Whenever our plumber cleans our oil furnace, he always states that he'll probably end up with lung cancer......breathing in the oily fumes, which are pretty bad, I might add........he's young, but smart enough to know that. Many "dis eases" are environmental......so unless we all go and live in isolation, we are bound to get something.

Today I'm wondering about these new smart meters they installed on our homes up here..........some say they can cause or activate/speed along existing cancers......similar to cell phone useage.

Just read that we could have opted out. I wonder if they'd bring back our
analog meter??

WE just had a change in electric companies to one in Canada. After reading the long announcement put out by the Environmental Health doctors re the health dangers of these smart meters..........I can't believe we just let the guy install one a few days ago...........

So, live and let live. Personally, I don't really care what anyone else eats as long as the rest of us are free to choose our own path..........

Some days, we may want to eat totally healthy and other days we might want to splurge. Last time I looked it was not a crime. PEACE.

[graciegirl]

MMS: Error (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0908292)

Sorry, it wouldn't link.

I was trying to link a huge study done in China in 2007 about diabetes becoming more prevalent in the Chinese population. It was an article published in The New England Journal of Medicine which most people hold up as the finest in printing valid medical research.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Yes it irritates the endothelium lining as well as all other oils, if you want to reduce plaque in the arteries ALL oils need to be eliminated.

When irritated plaque adheres to the location and builds/blocks from there over several years.

Image shows the lining inside a blood vessel wall, they are only one cell in thickness and very fragile when exposed to oil.


http://wikipremed.com/image_science_archive_68/040602_68/337050_Anatomy_artery_68.jpg


Vascular endothelial cells line the entire circulatory system, from the heart to the smallest capillaries.
These cells have very distinct and unique functions that are paramount to vascular biology.

These functions include fluid filtration, such as in the glomeruli of the kidney, blood vessel tone, hemostasis, neutrophil recruitment, and hormone trafficking. Endothelium of the interior surfaces of the heart chambers are called endocardium.

Dr's Esseltyn and Ornish agree on this, I personally have benefited by eliminating oil from my diet in 7 months - big changes.

First of all I think you should be mindful that this is a forum, as such it is for an exchange of ideas and opinions.

I'm as free as you to express them.

No one herein is a self proclaimed expert.

Civility aside your personal attack is unwarranted.

***Yes it irritates the endothelium lining as well as all other oils, if you want to reduce plaque in the arteries ALL oils need to be eliminated.

When irritated plaque adheres to the location and builds/blocks from there over several years.

Image shows the lining inside a blood vessel wall, they are only one cell in thickness and very fragile when exposed to oil.***

You presented the above as if it's fact and didn't express it as "ideas and opinions" tha'st great just present your qualifications to present these fact otherwise clearly state the it's an ideas, opinion.

[jimbo2012]

I was trying to link a huge study done in China in 2007 about diabetes becoming more prevalent in the Chinese population. It was an article published in The New England Journal of Medicine which most people hold up as the finest in printing valid medical research.

(By the way in China 46,000 is not huge)

Sure it says that the people eating the western diets are gaining weight and having issues

The prevalence of diabetes increased with increasing age (3.2%, 11.5%, and 20.4% among persons who were 20 to 39, 40 to 59, and ≥60 years of age, respectively) and with increasing weight (4.5%, 7.6%, 12.8%, and 18.5% among persons with a body-mass index [the weight in kilograms divided by the square of the height in meters] of <18.5, 18.5 to 24.9, 25.0 to 29.9, and ≥30.0, respectively). The prevalence of diabetes was higher among urban residents than among rural residents (11.4% vs. 8.2%)

[senior citizen]

MMS: Error (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0908292)

Sorry, it wouldn't link.

I was trying to link a huge study done in China in 2007 about diabetes becoming more prevalent in the Chinese population. It was an article published in The New England Journal of Medicine which most people hold up as the finest in printing valid medical research.


Gracie:
I just read it. I think it's due to all the American fast food restaurants that infiltrated Asia.........just like we all enjoy Chinese takeout, they have really accepted the western diet, for good or ill........

We all know the junk that is in these fast food products, but sometimes when traveling, even we stop at the golden arches to stretch, etc.

Many years ago we had a lightbulb moment when we saw the movie KING CORN.......high fructose corn syrup IS NOW IN EVERYTHING.......where it never used to be..........you can rent it from Netflix or search for it on Direct TV if you have satellite....

Foods prepared from scratch are still the best for everyone's health.
Processed foods are loaded with unnatural "stuff".

Plot Summary for
King Corn (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1112115/) (2007 (http://www.imdb.com/year/2007/))

King Corn is a feature documentary about two friends, one acre of corn, and the subsidized crop that drives our fast-food nation. In King Corn, Ian Cheney and Curt Ellis, best friends from college on the east coast, move to the heartland to learn where their food comes from. With the help of friendly neighbors, genetically modified seeds, and powerful herbicides, they plant and grow a bumper crop of America's most-productive, most-subsidized grain on one acre of Iowa soil. But when they try to follow their pile of corn into the food system, what they find raises troubling questions about how we eat-and how we farm.

[jimbo2012]

You presented the above as if it's fact and didn't express it as "ideas and opinions" tha'st great just present your qualifications to present these fact otherwise clearly state the it's an ideas, opinion.

It is a fact, (not my opinion out of thin air) supported and documented by Dr's Esseltyn, Campbell and Ornish in many books and the movie Forks over Knives.

Read my post again you missed a few points above I think.

[Barefoot]

BABY DEATH BY VEGANISM - 6 Vegan Baby Starvation Cases - Parents convicted of murder - INHS (http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html)
Baby Breastfed By Vegan Mother Dies (http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/baby-breastfed-by-vegan-mother-dies/)
[Severe vitamin B12 deficiency in infants brea... [Ugeskr Laeger. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19852900)
[Developmental delay in breastfed chil... [Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16553042)

Possible higher rates of breast cancer in women
Lessons from dietary studies in Adventists an... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12936947)

Danger caused by vegan diet
Strict vegan, low-calorie diet administered by careg... [Med Law. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16082865)

Answers for non-vegans
Twenty-Two Reasons Not to Go Vegetarian - Weston A Price Foundation (http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/not-to-go-vegetarian)
Articles showing benefits
Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets. [Proc Nutr Soc. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16441942)
Mortality in vegetarians and non-vegetari... [Public Health Nutr. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529)

Imagine that the Med and Vegan diet both have benefits how oh how can there be two good diets
Nut consumption, vegetarian diets, ischemic h... [Am J Clin Nutr. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479222)
Maybe eating meat doesn’t cause cancer, who knows for sure?
Risk of death from cancer and ischaemic heart disease in... [BMJ. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8025458)
I'm done and actual have a life

It is a fact, (not my opinion out of thin air) supported and documented by Dr's Esseltyn, Campbell and Ornish in many books and the movie Forks over Knives. Read my post again you missed a few points above I think.

Jimbo's research has led him to draw certain conclusions. Can'tWait's research has led to some very different conclusions. I think one could find a book or movie or study to support almost any conclusion. As a matter of fact, I think I read a study the other day that concluded that people that drink and smoke are jolly good fun.

[quirky3]

Jimbo's research has led him to draw certain conclusions. Can'tWait's research has led to some very different conclusions. I think one could find a book or movie or study to support almost any conclusion. As a matter of fact, I think I read a study the other day that concluded that people that drink and smoke are jolly good fun.

:agree::beer3:

[Moderator]

There are many opinions about appropriate diet. Please remember to address the topic and not the poster.

Thank you.

[Villages PL]

First I didn't criticizen you for anything. My coment was not directed towards you or anything you said. If you feel guilty because what you were truely thinking is what I expressed I guess you should own those feeling. I asked you what makes you qualified to give advice. I think if you expect people to follow or listen to your advice, knowing what makes you qualified to give that advice is vital, otherwise you're dangerous and so is anyone else that gives advice on diet and health that isn't qualified to give it. I commented on the results of a study I'm in and for some reason you like to try and discredit anyone that isn't on the same path as you, that's so sad that you would be so insecure. I beleive there might be benefits to several different lifestyles including the vegan lifestyle.

But I stand by my statement that advice from unqualified people is dangerous!!

Any vegan moms PLEASE PLEASE don't breastfied your baby without consulting your doc and a lawyer!

Vegan breast feeding and death

BABY DEATH BY VEGANISM - 6 Vegan Baby Starvation Cases - Parents convicted of murder - INHS (http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html)
Baby Breastfed By Vegan Mother Dies (http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/baby-breastfed-by-vegan-mother-dies/)
[Severe vitamin B12 deficiency in infants brea... [Ugeskr Laeger. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19852900)
[Developmental delay in breastfed chil... [Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16553042)

Possible higher rates of breast cancer in women
Lessons from dietary studies in Adventists an... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12936947)

Danger caused by vegan diet
Strict vegan, low-calorie diet administered by careg... [Med Law. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16082865)

Answers for non-vegans
Twenty-Two Reasons Not to Go Vegetarian - Weston A Price Foundation (http://www.westonaprice.org/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/not-to-go-vegetarian)
Articles showing benefits
Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets. [Proc Nutr Soc. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16441942)
Mortality in vegetarians and non-vegetari... [Public Health Nutr. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529)

Imagine that the Med and Vegan diet both have benefits how oh how can there be two good diets
Nut consumption, vegetarian diets, ischemic h... [Am J Clin Nutr. 1999] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10479222)
Maybe eating meat doesn’t cause cancer, who knows for sure?
Risk of death from cancer and ischaemic heart disease in... [BMJ. 1994] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8025458)


Have fun I'm sure you will work to discredit each and everyone of these you don't agree with and we can go back and forth trading studies to support whatever position someone wants to but I'm done and actual have a life

The first story is enough for me so I won't waste time reading all of them. In the first story it was said that the parents didn't follow the doctors' advice. The baby was sick and the parents did nothing.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I think it needs to be kept in mind that the statue's of Florida require any one giving out Diet and or nutrition advice has to have a certain level of education and be licensed and partcipate in continuing education. I beleive a few polsters on this and other threads are coming dangerously close to praticing without a license. I also beleive if anyone chooses to follow their advice and is injured they may have grounds for an action. I'm suprised TOTV doesn't require a clear statement by each participate when they post that they are not an expert and not licensed. Here is the link to the requirements

Licensure Requirements - Florida Dietetics & Nutrition Practice Council - Licensure Requirements (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/dietetics/nd_lic_req.html)

[Villages PL]

Licensing requirements are for dietitians or nutritionists who want to offer their services in exchange for a fee. I, for one, don't call myself a dietitian or a nutritionist and I don't charge a fee. Discussion boards are exempt because they are considered to be opinion based.

[Cantwaittoarrive]

Licensing requirements are for dietitians or nutritionists who want to offer their services in exchange for a fee. I, for one, don't call myself a dietitian or a nutritionist and I don't charge a fee. Discussion boards are exempt because they are considered to be opinion based.

Sorry not true

[Moderator]

Thread is straying from original topic. Please keep discussion on topic. Another thread can be opened for new topics.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I had been taking fish oil to try to lower my cholesterol and also for inflammation. I have had several orthopedic issues over the years. I stopped taking it a few weeks ago and noticed that my hips have started to hurt. I was told several years ago that eventually I would need new hips and had cortisone shots about eight years ago that helped a lot. I haven't had any trouble since the shots and had been taking fish oil regularly. I'm wondering if stopping the fish oil has to do with this sudden resurgence of hip pain. I'm also taking glucosamine and chondroitin, but recently read that glucosamine is made from shellfish shells. What is De Esslestyn's position on fish oil or glucosamine for inflamation?

[Cantwaittoarrive]

I had been taking fish oil to try to lower my cholesterol and also for inflammation. I have had several orthopedic issues over the years. I stopped taking it a few weeks ago and noticed that my hips have started to hurt. I was told several years ago that eventually I would need new hips and had cortisone shots about eight years ago that helped a lot. I haven't had any trouble since the shots and had been taking fish oil regularly. I'm wondering if stopping the fish oil has to do with this sudden resurgence of hip pain. I'm also taking glucosamine and chondroitin, but recently read that glucosamine is made from shellfish shells. What is De Esslestyn's position on fish oil or glucosamine for inflamation?

Why would you change whats working for you based on what someone on a internet discussion board says. Please talk to someone that knows you like your doctor and work with them for a treatment that's taylored for your exact needs

[jimbo2012]

What is De Esslestyn's position on fish oil or glucosamine for inflamation?

I don't know, I can give you his email to ask him directly.