About 63% of Villagers are on 3 to 4 meds per day

[Villages PL]

This was part of the result of the USF survey. Also, a high percentage of Villagers said they felt they were in good health. So, the overwelming conclusion of the survey is that we ARE the healthiest hometown in America. See, all that's needed is to declare victory, just as I predicted.

Nowhere in the lecture was the above contradiction pointed out. I believe it's possible to feel healthy while being in poor health. For example, a person taking pain medication for XYZ disease may feel well while the disease still exists. That's healthy? All sorts of medications exist for covering up symptoms while the underlying problem goes uncorrected.

I raised this issue after the lecture and was told the following: The important thing is how people feel.

This is what this USF/Villages health alliance has been about from the very beginning. You live your lifestyle, whatever it may be, and when you get sick, you go to a medical doctor and he/she will make you healthy by prescribing medications or operating on you. Comparatively little attentinon will be paid to dietary or nutritional changes.

[gomoho]

This is what this USF/Villages health alliance has been about from the very beginning. You live your lifestyle, whatever it may be, and when you get sick, you go to a medical doctor and he/she will make you healthy by prescribing medications or operating on you. Comparatively little attentinon will be paid to dietary or nutritional changes.[/QUOTE]

I sure hope you are wrong and won't the care be dictated by the patient's demands? If enough folks walk in there with good questions and asking for alternatives to meds the docs will eventually respond or the program won't get off its feet.

Also isn't how you are feeling pretty subjective? Not sure how you could really measure something like that without labs and stress tests and the likes of such. But then again so much of how we feel is mind over matter and maybe The Villages just makes people feel good!

Whatever I am still going to be positive about this new health alliance and hope it becomes what they are promising.

[ilovetv]

It's a free country. People exercise their right to choose to either get a prescription filled, or not.

Just because doctors' time is spent treating acute illness and acute/chronic diseases and less on nutrition/diet does not mean the people have never heard of healthy diet benefits. It also doesn't mean that doctors don't ever talk about it. You're not there in the exam room and office consultation time, to know what the drs do and don't do.

[lightworker888]

VPL You have brought up a very good point, however I expect that you are singing to the choir. It is a difficult idea to teach, when people have been raised to think of symptoms as "sickness" and lack of symptoms to mean "health". In fact a lot of people are treating symptoms which are related to the body "healing" and stopping the healing process (German New Medicine). That is called a "hanging healing" which continues until the initial cause of the disease is resolved. Many people live their lives with "hanging healings" that never resolve and consider themselves "healthy".

Also, most people will not change their habits consistently until they have a healing crisis and often the changes that they make will not necessarily address the primary cause. For most people, the information is overwhelming and the status quo works as long as the symptoms stay under the radar. The standard outlook is "don't fix something that ain't broke" and the problem with that is that you can't always find what is broke or even know that it is broke.

So to paraphrase Barefoot joyfully living your life has has its merits, at least that way, you will leave with a smile!

LW888

[pooh]

You must remember that some people on meds arrived here on those meds and some medications should not stopped without review of the prescribing physician. Some drugs contraindicate certain foods being ingested.
Can better diet make people healthy? Maybe....maybe not. Again I will state that some bodies will not tolerate some foods, foods that might need to be ingested to help a body get needed And necessary nutrients.

Learning to eat foods that are nutritious is something we all might benefit from, but no matter what you say or I say, we all live in a manner we've learned, adjusted to. Some recognize they need to do something to make life better for them....for some it's weight loss, for some, it's exercise, for others, it's diet. In order to do anything, people need to WANT to do something. If they decide to forgo what some consider the road to good health, well, they must deal with the consequences of their decision. Health care is there to help people in need, be they suffering from obesity, COPD, heart or vascular disease, a broken leg or bacterial infection. Physicians take an oath to provide care to all who come to them. They aren't necessarily trained in advanced nutrition. They can make recommendations, but it is up to the patient to either take the advice or not.

[Mikeod]

To me, your view of a treatment plan is too narrow. When a patient enters a clinic for help with an existing problem, they want that problem to go away. An effective treatment plan, for that patient, has to address both the underlying cause of the symptoms and the symptoms themselves. While there may be a long term benefit from alterations in lifestyle, including diet, if those recommendations do not provide near term relief of the symptoms, the patient will decide that the provider has not helped them. And they will decide to not follow the long term treatment plan, no matter how much the provider extolls the benefits.

I agree that a treatment plan that addresses only the symptoms without consideration of the underlying cause(s) is incomplete. But surely you realize that there are diseases for which nutrition/diet offer no relief and for which there is no real treatment that will eliminate the disease. COPD comes to mind. Symptomatic relief is about all that can be done. The opportunity to employ lifestyle changes is past.

[jimbo2012]

Ask yourself this, how many times have U been waiting to see your Dr for 20-90 minutes and a drug salesman is buzzed right in in two minutes.

Why does the dr give priority to to the drug dealers?

Simple they make money on scripts, more than your office visit.

Diet plays a big role in many (not all) maladies but U know my position on that.

I will say I take no drugs since changing my diet.

The OP said 63% take 3-4 meds how many take 1 or 2 90%???????

[pooh]

Ask yourself this, how many times have U been waiting to see your Dr for 20-90 minutes and a drug salesman is buzzed right in in two minutes.

Why does the dr give priority to to the drug dealers?

Simple they make money on scripts, more than your office visit.

Diet plays a big role in many (not all) maladies but U know my position on that.

I will say I take no drugs since changing my diet.

The OP said 63% take 3-4 meds how many take 1 or 2 90%???????

I'm happy for you....no meds. And I do take exception to the drug salesmen comment. While it may seem they are taking up physician time, they may not be. Offices have medical managers, they could be the ones seeing the pharmaceutical rep(s). Remember, the physician needs to treat all who come to him and not all maladies can be successfully treated with diet alone. If there is a new med that may offer some help, I'd want my physician to know.

[graciegirl]

Ask yourself this, how many times have U been waiting to see your Dr for 20-90 minutes and a drug salesman is buzzed right in in two minutes.

Why does the dr give priority to to the drug dealers?

Simple they make money on scripts, more than your office visit.

Diet plays a big role in many (not all) maladies but U know my position on that.

I will say I take no drugs since changing my diet.

The OP said 63% take 3-4 meds how many take 1 or 2 90%???????

Doctors don't make money on prescriptions. No Doctor I have ever visited see pharmaceutical sales people and make patients wait.

We see our doctors twice a year and don't feel ill. They evaluate our wellness. A lot of illnesses have no apparent symptoms; Cancer, thyroid overactivity or underactivity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure.

Because people take medication doesn't mean they are sick or feel ill, many medications keep them well.

My doctor discusses diet and exercise regularly. He is also interested in our level of happiness or unhappiness.

The fact that seniors take medications often mean they are taking care of themselves and living healthily.

Overweight and or plaque in arteries is not the only cause of hypertension. Eating too much fat is not the only cause of high cholesterol. Proper diet will not cure hyper or hypothyroidism or prevent cancer.

[jimbo2012]

Doctors don't make money on prescriptions.


Here's the money paid to Dr's in Fl, $56 million and this (http://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/states/florida) is only the reported payments not under the table.

Here's another article (http://dangerousprescriptiondrugs.weebly.com/pharma---how-much-do-they-pay-doctors.html)


In total, more than 1,200 Jacksonville-area physicians received $3.1 million from a dozen drug companies during the previous 2 1/2 years, according to a database created by ProPublica, a nonprofit investigative news organization. here (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2011-12-11/story/does-your-doctor-get-payola-prescriptions#ixzz24DvV5KpW)

That's why the drug company reps walk in ahead of the patients, yes they talk to Doctors.


The fact that seniors take medications often mean they are taking care of themselves and living healthily.


I wouldn't call that "living healthy" I call it drugs of convenience rather than correct the cause.
Of course there are drugs that R absolutely needed, I'm speaking about BP, cholesterol, triglycerides meds that can be eliminated with diet & exercise.

[graciegirl]

I don't think either of these articles made your point.

[Applepie]

I guess I am not in the 63% I am over 70 years old. And I take NO medications of any kind. ( blood pressure, cholesterol etc) I am not overweight. I exercise everyday and eat a sensible diet- meat, potatoes, vegetables, fruit, chocolate, wine. I am happy camper.

[asianthree]

its all in the genes... i take no meds either and come from a family of extreme high blood pressure choleserol and are diabetic, just lucky

[gomoho]

So read today's article in the Daily Sun to find out what the survey REALLY revealed. Quite a different slant on the senior's taking meds here and the rest of what has been reported in the OP.

[Villages PL]

So read today's article in the Daily Sun to find out what the survey REALLY revealed. Quite a different slant on the senior's taking meds here and the rest of what has been reported in the OP.

Yes, I see she said 88% because she added in those who rated their health as exellent. I didn't remember what that percentage was.
Good plus excellent = 88% But where does the article say anything about the percentage of seniors taking drugs? That was a very high percentage too, especially if you add in those who take 1 or more drugs per day.

Also, in the newspaper she mentioned cholesterol problems at 42.5% That seems about right. But hypertension 28%? I have a hard time believing that. I always thought it would be much higher. I just did a search that said one out of 4 adults have high blood pressure. But at age 70 it goes up sharply to 2 out of 3. Could it be that some (on the survey) did not report high blood pressure because it's not high when they take their medications?

One thing I consider a mistake is when Petersen said she believes that The Villages survey is the largest ever conducted of older American adults. (33,000 Villagers) In the "NIH AARP Diet and Health Study" over 500,000 people filled out detailed questionnaires and sent them in. The study is still going today.

Here's something you might find interesting: At the lecture, Dr. Petersen said there were (about) 24% of Villagers on diets. One would think she would say, "Good for you! There seem to be quite a few Villagers who want to be healthier!" Instead she said, "What's that all about?!" Is that the way to encourage people to be healthier?

[lovsthosebigdogs]

Doctors don't make money on prescriptions. No Doctor I have ever visited see pharmaceutical sales people and make patients wait.

We see our doctors twice a year and don't feel ill. They evaluate our wellness. A lot of illnesses have no apparent symptoms; Cancer, thyroid overactivity or underactivity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure.

Because people take medication doesn't mean they are sick or feel ill, many medications keep them well.

My doctor discusses diet and exercise regularly. He is also interested in our level of happiness or unhappiness.

The fact that seniors take medications often mean they are taking care of themselves and living healthily.

Overweight and or plaque in arteries is not the only cause of hypertension. Eating too much fat is not the only cause of high cholesterol. Proper diet will not cure hyper or hypothyroidism or prevent cancer.

Once again well written and the voice of reason. Thank you, Gracie.
I hope those of you who look down on others who need meds to continue to feel well will realize that it's not always in a person's control and not always a "punishment" linked to poor diet and lack of ecercise. I have a cholesterol level in the low 100s, bp is 110/70, I am around 110 lbs before pizza (yes, I do eat it sometimes!) and I take meds regularly. It helps me have a better life and I am glad for medical science. I suppose I could be sanctimonious and suffer without, but I'd rather just be happy. I think you CAN take meds and be healthy. One doesn't exclude the other.

[KayakerNC]

:agree:I don't think either of these articles made your point.

[billethkid]

some medications are referred to as "maintenance medications".
Taking a cholesterol med to keep the numbers right or better. The alternative, do no maintenance/preventative meds and wait for a potential catastrophic event?

It would be nice to be able to see a breakout of the data describing differing categories of meds i.e long term maintenance-no medical event, maintenance-post medical event both short term and long term, temporary medication, meds for peace of mind (or something like that...not really sick or needed), et al.

It may not change the overall health outlook but would provide an improved understanding of the often described "health" of the patient.

Another factor to consider, for some, is the fact that the resident is covered by some sort of insurance private or medicare or other. Allowing more frequent visits of a non critical or just in case type visit resulting in a just in case type Rx (difficult to really define or apply!!!).

And if it would be possible to see data that would do some breakdown like the above but by income levels. I do not think there would be any doubt the lower the income the less doctor visits and less medication use would follow. In the lower income categories there would no doubt be those who should be on meds but cannot afford them and there would also be those who do not need any meds and because they cannot afford to go to the doctor in the first place.....are better off than a counterpart in a higher income.

Just a lot of different ways, as usual, to look at data...to make a case or not.

btk

[senior citizen]

You must remember that some people on meds arrived here on those meds and some medications should not stopped without review of the prescribing physician. Some drugs contraindicate certain foods being ingested.
Can better diet make people healthy? Maybe....maybe not. Again I will state that some bodies will not tolerate some foods, foods that might need to be ingested to help a body get needed And necessary nutrients.

Learning to eat foods that are nutritious is something we all might benefit from, but no matter what you say or I say, we all live in a manner we've learned, adjusted to. Some recognize they need to do something to make life better for them....for some it's weight loss, for some, it's exercise, for others, it's diet. In order to do anything, people need to WANT to do something. If they decide to forgo what some consider the road to good health, well, they must deal with the consequences of their decision. Health care is there to help people in need, be they suffering from obesity, COPD, heart or vascular disease, a broken leg or bacterial infection. Physicians take an oath to provide care to all who come to them. They aren't necessarily trained in advanced nutrition. They can make recommendations, but it is up to the patient to either take the advice or not.

Pooh is correct in that most medications cannot just be stopped cold turkey without consulting with their original physician. Years ago we lost a dear friend who was sick and tired of her (and her husbands and her son's thirty some pill bottles on the kitchen window, which they had to take each morning, etc......so she just stopped cold turkey. She told me she was going to do it. She hated swallowing the big horse pills and nothing was helping.......plus they kept passing the body around from specialist to specialist..............I told her she'd better check with her primary doc first..........

We were leaving on a trip out of town to help our daughter look for her wedding gown........our friend wanted us to measure for a table cloth while there.........which she was getting as a gift...........

Sad to say, when we returned.........said friend could no longer speak; had suffered a stroke......long story, but she had stopped taking a necessary pharmaceutical for her high blood pressure........she went downhill from there..........very sad. She was like a grandmother to all of us.

Myself and a lot of our friends are for NOT going on pharmaceuticals to begin with........as there are alternative remedies.......holistic remedies that all those little purple, red, blue and yellow pills cannot cure.

My own step father got very ill when he mixed up several of his prescriptions and either overdosed or missed a dose......he had them all together in a little baggy. We were on a trip to Maine with him and my mom when he got very very ill............scary. I saw her hand him the bag that morning. The blind leading the blind.

p.s. This was before we knew how confused she was and figured that they were both adults of 79 years young and didn't want to interfere.
I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he knew what was in that baggy and when he should take it. It all turned out fine in the end.....but he was lucky. My husband later "invented" for fun......a little pill bottle that would prevent such happenings.....never did anything with it, or when he did, they said the patent had already been granted, as I now recall.

[Bonnevie]

as a pharmacist I will give you my unscientific view of patients. By far the healthiest patients I see are the ones on the fewest medications. I have seen 90 year olds who look great and people who are 65 look like they have one foot in the grave. While genetics is certainly a factor, there is also attitude. Some patients want a medication prescribed for everything. Instead of making lifestyle changes they want a pill. A great example is Prevacid--thousands of people were put on that mediation for stomach upset when they may have been better off losing weight or modifying habits. The patients I consider healthier, avoid taking medications unless absolutely necessary. They realize they all come with side effects. As people age, the risk of side effects increase yet the doctors feel pressured to prescribe something or the patients don't feel like they got what they came for. Also, in the litigious atmosphere they are in, the doctors feel they have to prescribe meds to cya (cover their a#$%). I have more and more respect for the doctor my mother had in her senior years who asked her if she was going to take something if he prescribed it and if she said no, he didn't order it. Myself, when I look for a doctor, I look for one who doesn't prescribe a lot of meds.

[senior citizen]

as a pharmacist I will give you my unscientific view of patients. By far the healthiest patients I see are the ones on the fewest medications. I have seen 90 year olds who look great and people who are 65 look like they have one foot in the grave. While genetics is certainly a factor, there is also attitude. Some patients want a medication prescribed for everything. Instead of making lifestyle changes they want a pill. A great example is Prevacid--thousands of people were put on that mediation for stomach upset when they may have been better off losing weight or modifying habits. The patients I consider healthier, avoid taking medications unless absolutely necessary. They realize they all come with side effects. As people age, the risk of side effects increase yet the doctors feel pressured to prescribe something or the patients don't feel like they got what they came for. Also, in the litigious atmosphere they are in, the doctors feel they have to prescribe meds to cya (cover their a#$%). I have more and more respect for the doctor my mother had in her senior years who asked her if she was going to take something if he prescribed it and if she said no, he didn't order it. Myself, when I look for a doctor, I look for one who doesn't prescribe a lot of meds.

EXCELLENT POST. From what we've seen, the side effects from the first prescription lead to the next specialist and the next "drug" and on and on.

We do have doctors up here who believe "less is more".........

Our pet peeve are the arthritis drugs with the side effects of lymphoma, cancers of the blood, tuberculosis, fungal diseases, and on and on.......
Good gracious..........morning stiffness is no fun; neither are swollen joints but the side effects mentioned above are definitely not welcomed.

I had quite a few friends and neighbors who never ever smoked a day in their life come down with fatal lung cancers........had chemo and radiation for a year or so........ultimately passed on,having lost all feeling in their hands and feet......nerve damage. Also blood clots from the "ports"; constant hospitilizations. Most recently I read that SOME arthritis drugs can lead to LUNG CANCER?????????????? That was a new wakeup call to me. I will continue to use "heat" and topical salves or rollon menthol and herbal type relief........but refuse to take anything orally.

Yes, we do remember that "pink stomach" pharmaceutical ad that we'd see at dinnertime.........I think it was the same drug?

Also, years ago (not too long) there was a cardiologist who falsely claimed on t.v. commercials that he also took a certain drug........you no longer see him on t.v. Obviously, he did it for the money.

They must think people are total idiots. We also have pharmacists as friends and neighbors and do appreciate your sound honest input.

I agree that a lot of folks are NOT happy until they get an RX.
There is no magic pill for today's ills.

My husband believes that the pharmaceutical companies "run" the networks..........that's all that's on the commercials during prime time news..........plus ABC evening news has turned into a health show with Diane interviewing Dr. Rich every day..........and then that theory flips and flops by the next month or so............

[graciegirl]

as a pharmacist I will give you my unscientific view of patients. By far the healthiest patients I see are the ones on the fewest medications. I have seen 90 year olds who look great and people who are 65 look like they have one foot in the grave. While genetics is certainly a factor, there is also attitude. Some patients want a medication prescribed for everything. Instead of making lifestyle changes they want a pill. A great example is Prevacid--thousands of people were put on that mediation for stomach upset when they may have been better off losing weight or modifying habits. The patients I consider healthier, avoid taking medications unless absolutely necessary. They realize they all come with side effects. As people age, the risk of side effects increase yet the doctors feel pressured to prescribe something or the patients don't feel like they got what they came for. Also, in the litigious atmosphere they are in, the doctors feel they have to prescribe meds to cya (cover their a#$%). I have more and more respect for the doctor my mother had in her senior years who asked her if she was going to take something if he prescribed it and if she said no, he didn't order it. Myself, when I look for a doctor, I look for one who doesn't prescribe a lot of meds.

I do agree with you almost entirely. Twenty pounds weight loss and Prilosec may be out the door and hypertension medication too....One pill too many or one pill too few can kill you...over time. Only a very good physician can make that call for me. Some medication are life savers and prolong our lives and some are at best borderline with dangerous side effects.

I read what Billethekid wrote and it does worry me that people who don't have the money are not seeing the doctor as often as they should and probably not unless they are sick and do not get the screening tests that would divert something developing into a far more serious situation.

I also think that some people turn to the quicker and easier fix of supplements and natural medication because of the lack of funds and fear of doctors...SOMETIMES.

I think that taking a lot of untested and unproven supplements and holistic cures is dangerous. I think a healthy diet, exercise, good companions, keeping up with medical issues, seeing your doctor..and dentist regularly and taking their advice is a good common sense approach.

We have to realize too that just as the pharmaceutical manufacturers make a lot of money, so do the people who manufacture supplements.

No one can tell us seniors what to do. We will do what we all think best of course. And everyone has a different idea on that.

I just wish you all health and happiness.:)

[billethkid]

as a pharmacist I will give you my unscientific view of patients. By far the healthiest patients I see are the ones on the fewest medications. I have seen 90 year olds who look great and people who are 65 look like they have one foot in the grave. While genetics is certainly a factor, there is also attitude. Some patients want a medication prescribed for everything. Instead of making lifestyle changes they want a pill. A great example is Prevacid--thousands of people were put on that mediation for stomach upset when they may have been better off losing weight or modifying habits. The patients I consider healthier, avoid taking medications unless absolutely necessary. They realize they all come with side effects. As people age, the risk of side effects increase yet the doctors feel pressured to prescribe something or the patients don't feel like they got what they came for. Also, in the litigious atmosphere they are in, the doctors feel they have to prescribe meds to cya (cover their a#$%). I have more and more respect for the doctor my mother had in her senior years who asked her if she was going to take something if he prescribed it and if she said no, he didn't order it. Myself, when I look for a doctor, I look for one who doesn't prescribe a lot of meds.


Excellent post...thanx for sharing your experienced insight into a very significant issue in our "culture" these days.

btk

[lightworker888]

I understand where you are coming from Gracie, and with your medical experiences, it is a conclusion that is understandable. We all make our choices based on what we know and what we have experienced.

From my experience, I have used various supplements but do not regularly use ones that I have not researched. Supplementation has an old long history, be it from herbs, both eastern and western, homeopathy or any other natural source. In fact treating "sickness" by natural means is in every culture and seems to be based on holistic understanding. It has such a long written and anecdotal history of success, that I fail to see how it should be dismissed. Every individual has a unique biochemical makeup and everything that we put into our bodies reacts somewhat differently so I expect that some of the "side effects" of drugs might be because of our individual uniqueness.

I do not use supplements that are in the drug stores as they are usually made by a branch of big pharma companies that are trying to get into the "natural health" arena. I prefer companies that have a longer history of making their supplements from a natural source rather than a "lab" source.

We all need to be careful of anyone to whom we trust our life. We give that power over by choice and we have to live with the consequences of making that choice. I am doing my best to trust myself and my choicemaking as I know that in the end I am the only one living my life so there is no one else to take the fallout.

And I am doing it as joyfully as I know how to it, moment by moment and day by day!

Love 'n Light
LW888

[graciegirl]

I understand where you are coming from Gracie, and with your medical experiences, it is a conclusion that is understandable. We all make our choices based on what we know and what we have experienced.

From my experience, I have used various supplements but do not regularly use ones that I have not researched. Supplementation has an old long history, be it from herbs, both eastern and western, homeopathy or any other natural source. In fact treating "sickness" by natural means is in every culture and seems to be based on holistic understanding. It has such a long written and anecdotal history of success, that I fail to see how it should be dismissed. Every individual has a unique biochemical makeup and everything that we put into our bodies reacts somewhat differently so I expect that some of the "side effects" of drugs might be because of our individual uniqueness.

I do not use supplements that are in the drug stores as they are usually made by a branch of big pharma companies that are trying to get into the "natural health" arena. I prefer companies that have a longer history of making their supplements from a natural source rather than a "lab" source.

We all need to be careful of anyone to whom we trust our life. We give that power over by choice and we have to live with the consequences of making that choice. I am doing my best to trust myself and my choicemaking as I know that in the end I am the only one living my life so there is no one else to take the fallout.

And I am doing it as joyfully as I know how to it, moment by moment and day by day!

Love 'n Light
LW888

Lightworker, You and Senior and Billethekid and Barryrx...and so many others make my life so much nicer. There are so many different ways of looking at things and you folks that I just mentioned in particular phrase what you have to say in such a way as to make everyone who reads it think about your insight. You are always adding to my information.

Thank you all for being you.

[Villages PL]

It's a free country. People exercise their right to choose to either get a prescription filled, or not.

Not sure why you always bring up "freedom" as though that's an issue here.

Just because doctors' time is spent treating acute illness and acute/chronic diseases and less on nutrition/diet does not mean the people have never heard of healthy diet benefits. It also doesn't mean that doctors don't ever talk about it. You're not there in the exam room and office consultation time, to know what the drs do and don't do.

It's impossible to know about every doctor-patient relationship but it's easy to learn about the condition of the doctoring profession in general. Many books have been written by doctors about doctors. Some people know from personal experience and/or from stories they have heard from friends, family and message boards.

Isn't this the reason why Villagers are enthusiastic about the new Villages Health Care Centers? Isn't it because these centers hold the promise of better operating systems and better doctors? Marcus Welby M.D.s?

Of course it remains to be seen how much better it will be. That's because some very important aspects will remain the same: 1) these Marcus Welbys will still not be nutritionists (not that I expect them to be) 2) patients for the most part will still have the same mind set that doctors should prescribe some miraculous medication(s) that will fix everything (requiring little or no effort on the part of the patient) and 3) doctors have been trained in medicine and naturally want to please their patients by prescribing medications to relieve symptoms.

[Villages PL]

I think that taking a lot of untested and unproven supplements and holistic cures is dangerous.

It's not always dangerous but it certainly has that potential. It comes under the heading of self experimentation. There's no guarantee that the herb or supplement will contain what the label says it contains. And when a person starts combining several different herbs and supplements there's no telling what effect the combination will have on their health.

Hundreds and hundreds of people, perhaps thousands, have died by combining various untested herbs and supplements.

Search such headings as, "5 Dangerous Herbs And Supplements That Can Kill"

and "What You Don't Know Might Kill You - Supplements"

[ilovetv]

Not sure why you always bring up "freedom" as though that's an issue here.

It's impossible to know about every doctor-patient relationship but it's easy to learn about the condition of the doctoring profession in general. Many books have been written by doctors about doctors. Some people know from personal experience and/or from stories they have heard from friends, family and message boards.

Isn't this the reason why Villagers are enthusiastic about the new Villages Health Care Centers? Isn't it because these centers hold the promise of better operating systems and better doctors? Marcus Welby M.D.s?

Of course it remains to be seen how much better it will be. That's because some very important aspects will remain the same: 1) these Marcus Welbys will still not be nutritionists (not that I expect them to be) 2) patients for the most part will still have the same mind set that doctors should prescribe some miraculous medication(s) that will fix everything (requiring little or no effort on the part of the patient) and 3) doctors have been trained in medicine and naturally want to please their patients by prescribing medications to relieve symptoms.

I bring up "freedom" here because nobody on meds here takes them at gunpoint nor threat of prosecution/jail. The person decides on their own volition to take them or not.

It really has nothing to do with the new TV primary doctor clinics that are opening here in order to pay physicians well enough to have some take-home pay while seeing few enough patients per day to be able to spend time with them to DO the counseling for a healthier, pill-free lifestyle.

It was stated from the outset of the "Marcus Welby" analogies on this subject in the Daily Sun, that with Medicare patients being the majority, the only way for the physicians to make more than their costs of running the practice is to see huge numbers of patients.....which equals only a couple of minutes per patient.

The practice will probably be subsidized by those who are setting this up, so that a good salary can be paid the physician, regardless of income losses due to low reimbursement from Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, and from unpaid bills.

I think this new practice setup is a good thing, like all the good things the developers have done here where we can exercise and be active outdoors all year round! I found it impossible to swim, run, bicycle etc. on ICE, snow and slush!

[Villages PL]

I bring up "freedom" here because nobody on meds here takes them at gunpoint nor threat of prosecution/jail. The person decides on their own volition to take them or not.

But why say it in the first place? Did anyone say otherwise? I'm asking because this is not the first time you have brought up this argument.

It really has nothing to do with the new TV primary doctor clinics that are opening here in order to pay physicians well enough to have some take-home pay while seeing few enough patients per day to be able to spend time with them to DO the counseling for a healthier, pill-free lifestyle.

I think it does have something to do with it because you argued against what I said in my opening post. You argued in favor doctors. But in the past you also argued in favor of the new health clinics because supposedly they will represent a needed improvement. You can't have it both ways. Which is it? We are okay the way we are? Or we need a new system with better doctors?

It was stated from the outset of the "Marcus Welby" analogies on this subject in the Daily Sun, that with Medicare patients being the majority, the only way for the physicians to make more than their costs of running the practice is to see huge numbers of patients.....which equals only a couple of minutes per patient.

Then the current system is failing us. Why did you speak up on behalf of it in your first reply to me?

The practice will probably be subsidized by those who are setting this up, so that a good salary can be paid the physician, regardless of income losses due to low reimbursement from Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance, and from unpaid bills.

And the subsidy comes from where? All the evidence points to the fact that the money will come from the patients. There's no free lunch.

I think this new practice setup is a good thing, like all the good things the developers have done here where we can exercise and be active outdoors all year round! I found it impossible to swim, run, bicycle etc. on ICE, snow and slush!

It will be better for those who don't mind paying a monthly or yearly fee. It's called "concierge service".

[gomoho]

[
It will be better for those who don't mind paying a monthly or yearly fee. It's called "concierge service".[/QUOTE]

Please show me one place you have read or have even been able to deduce that this is going to be "concierge service". And why are you beating it up so badly when it hasn't even started. Sometimes things really do work out for the better - believe it or not. Give it a chance to get off the ground and then make a decision if it works for you or not.

[ilovetv]

"......The Villages-USF Health partnership is now poised to revolutionize health care.

Over the coming months and years, The Villages Health will establish a new patient-focused model of care reminiscent of the days of Marcus Welby, the fictional family doctor whose warm bedside manner and availability was a sharp contrast from today’s medical system that compensates doctors for quantity rather than quality.

“Medicare is a lifesaving program but it has been set up in such a way that doctors are no longer able to care for us senior citizens in the same manner that we grew up with,” said Villages developer Gary Morse. “Medicare pays a doctor for every patient he sees, not how much time he spends with that patient. If the doctor sees 100 patients a day, he or she makes twice as much as seeing 50 patients.”

The result of that volume-driven system has changed the way most doctors operate.

“Now doctors are incentivized to go into business, hire a business manager, set up their own records system, buy their own testing equipment and get paid for every test they can give to as many patients as they can run through their office,” Morse said.

The Villages Health will operate differently. Physicians will be paid generous salaries that are not tied to the volume of patients seen in a day or the number of tests or procedures ordered. And although Medicare reimbursements will still be utilized, that payment system will no longer drive how patients are treated. The salaried physicians will be able to focus on their patients as individuals, giving them the personal time and attention they need......."
http://www.thevillages.com/usf-0310.htm

In other words, the partnership of The Villages and USF Health will set up and manage the business operations and costs, and consolidate the "business managers, records systems, testing equipment", and staffing more under one roof/system, to reduce overhead costs and make Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance receipts go further toward paying the physicians a decent set salary that does not fluctuate downward due low reimbursements/collections and rising overhead costs like malpractice insurance and employee costs like wages and benefits.

[Villages PL]

"......The Villages-USF Health partnership is now poised to revolutionize health care.

Over the coming months and years, The Villages Health will establish a new patient-focused model of care reminiscent of the days of Marcus Welby, the fictional family doctor whose warm bedside manner and availability was a sharp contrast from today’s medical system that compensates doctors for quantity rather than quality.

“Medicare is a lifesaving program but it has been set up in such a way that doctors are no longer able to care for us senior citizens in the same manner that we grew up with,” said Villages developer Gary Morse. “Medicare pays a doctor for every patient he sees, not how much time he spends with that patient. If the doctor sees 100 patients a day, he or she makes twice as much as seeing 50 patients.”

The result of that volume-driven system has changed the way most doctors operate.

“Now doctors are incentivized to go into business, hire a business manager, set up their own records system, buy their own testing equipment and get paid for every test they can give to as many patients as they can run through their office,” Morse said.

The Villages Health will operate differently. Physicians will be paid generous salaries that are not tied to the volume of patients seen in a day or the number of tests or procedures ordered. And although Medicare reimbursements will still be utilized, that payment system will no longer drive how patients are treated. The salaried physicians will be able to focus on their patients as individuals, giving them the personal time and attention they need......."
The Villages - Florida's Friendliest Retirement Hometown - New Home Sales, Home Resales, Build Your Dream Home (http://www.thevillages.com/usf-0310.htm)

In other words, the partnership of The Villages and USF Health will set up and manage the business operations and costs, and consolidate the "business managers, records systems, testing equipment", and staffing more under one roof/system, to reduce overhead costs and make Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance receipts go further toward paying the physicians a decent set salary that does not fluctuate downward due low reimbursements/collections and rising overhead costs like malpractice insurance and employee costs like wages and benefits.

Well, it sounds good so I hope you're right but I'll believe it when I hear from some of those who become patients.

[gomoho]

We are on the waiting list - so apparently a whole lot of us like this idea.

[Villages PL]

Please show me one place you have read or have even been able to deduce that this is going to be "concierge service". And why are you beating it up so badly when it hasn't even started. Sometimes things really do work out for the better - believe it or not. Give it a chance to get off the ground and then make a decision if it works for you or not.

Just because I predicted that there will be a monthly or yearly fee, does that mean I'm "beating it up"?

I based my judgement on a radio program where healthcare experts had a discussion about concierge type clinics. Everything I heard fit the discription of the clinics we will soon have in The Villages.

[gomoho]

This is what this USF/Villages health alliance has been about from the very beginning. You live your lifestyle, whatever it may be, and when you get sick, you go to a medical doctor and he/she will make you healthy by prescribing medications or operating on you. Comparatively little attentinon will be paid to dietary or nutritional changes.

No the above quote from your OP is why I think you are beating it up. The concierge statement came later on. All I am is saying is "give it a chance and then make your decision".

[Villages PL]

This is what this USF/Villages health alliance has been about from the very beginning. You live your lifestyle, whatever it may be, and when you get sick, you go to a medical doctor and he/she will make you healthy by prescribing medications or operating on you. Comparatively little attentinon will be paid to dietary or nutritional changes.

No the above quote from your OP is why I think you are beating it up. The concierge statement came later on. All I am is saying is "give it a chance and then make your decision".

So far, I can only judge by what I heard coming from the lectures and what I heard coming from a focus group that I took part in. The clinics may do better but how will I be able to judge that?

Most people don't like to complain, especially on this board. Some do complain about doctors but they often get dismissed as cranky. And a good report from someone will carry more weight with those who are big Villages promoters. So how are we to arrive at an objective evaluation?

USF said they will do an evaluation but I hardly consider them to be objective. They are big believers in prescribing medication. That's already known. I found that out when I asked my question: "Shouldn't we judge the health of a community by the percentage of people taking 3 or 4 medications per day, rather than the percentage of people [subjectively] claiming to be in good health?" And she said, "the most important thing is how people feel."

[Bonnevie]

3 or 4 medications really isn't that much if someone has a chronic disease such as diabetes, cardiac, or copd. It's not unusual to have multiple meds treating a condition. I had a patient the other day who was 92 on only 3 meds. They were maintenance meds for conditions that were well controlled. He was one of the ones with a positive attitude and I was shocked to see he was 92. The patients that I consider worse are the ones who have a back ache and want a muscle relaxer, a pain med, then their stomach is upset so they get prilosec...on and on until literally I have patients on 20 or more medications.

[perrjojo]

:BigApplause:I'm happy for you....no meds. And I do take exception to the drug salesmen comment. While it may seem they are taking up physician time, they may not be. Offices have medical managers, they could be the ones seeing the pharmaceutical rep(s). Remember, the physician needs to treat all who come to him and not all maladies can be successfully treated with diet alone. If there is a new med that may offer some help, I'd want my physician to know.

:agree::BigApplause:
I agree. Drug reps also provide the newest information and education on RX meds. Doctors DO NOT get paid for prescribing meds. Actually, some insurance actually give them incentives to NOT prescribe meds. I'm not sure this is such a good idea either. Many complain that doctors order tests to make more money. Unless the doctor actually performs that test, he/she does NOT get paid. The testing lab/facility gets paid.

[Down Sized]

Ask yourself this, how many times have U been waiting to see your Dr for 20-90 minutes and a drug salesman is buzzed right in in two minutes.

Why does the dr give priority to to the drug dealers?

Simple they make money on scripts, more than your office visit.

Diet plays a big role in many (not all) maladies but U know my position on that.

I will say I take no drugs since changing my diet.

The OP said 63% take 3-4 meds how many take 1 or 2 90%???????

When you have 1/3 of people retirement age that are obese, this cause all kinds of aches and pains plus many other diseases. I guess we shouldn't even go into the alcohol on top of the weight issues we have here. Go figure.:icon_hungry:

[perrjojo]

When you have 1/3 of people retirement age that are obese, this cause all kinds of aches and pains plus many other diseases. I guess we shouldn't even go into the alcohol on top of the weight issues we have here. Go figure.:icon_hungry:

:BigApplause::agree:So many like to complain about Doctors. My son is a family physician and do you know what his biggest complaint is?
Patients come in and he offers lifestyle changes that they don't adopt. He prescribes meds that they don't take. They come back in and complain they are still not well. Hmmmmm. Also he is the only physician in his county that accepts Medicaid patients. These patients get paid mileage for their trip to the doctor and some of them get paid more for coming to see him than he does for the office visit. He has one full time person to file their claims and tries to find a specialist to see them if they need it. The number of "back office" people it takes to get reimbursed for insurance, Medicare and Medicaid is amazing to me. So while some are complaining about their doctors, that doctor may have some thoughts about you too.:smiley::smiley::smiley:
BTW, he has been in practice 22 years and sees more patients than he did 10 years ago and gets paid less.

[Villages PL]

Many complain that doctors order tests to make more money. Unless the doctor actually performs that test, he/she does NOT get paid. The testing lab/facility gets paid.

But isn't it true that many tests generate return visits to the doctor? I was getting one blood test per year. The result: Everyting is always good. No problems and no need for drugs. But this last time the doctor asked me to get more blood work in 6 months. Quest Diagnostics does the blood work but it's always followed by another office visit to my doctor, even if the results are good.

[perrjojo]

But isn't it true that many tests generate return visits to the doctor? I was getting one blood test per year. The result: Everyting is always good. No problems and no need for drugs. But this last time the doctor asked me to get more blood work in 6 months. Quest Diagnostics does the blood work but it's always followed by another office visit to my doctor, even if the results are good.

I have always gotten my test results by mail or email. If there was a problem I was called to come in. I can't speak for what others do.

[jimbo2012]

the blood work but it's always followed by another office visit to my doctor, even if the results are good.

What we do is ask that a copy of the results be mailed to us, which they must do.

Or if you get a script have that request written in.

No follow up if you wish.

[billethkid]

we also ask to have a copy sent to us when they send it to the doctor. It is easy to interpret and then if there are questions one can set an appointment for blood work follow up with the doctor. To go in as as matter of course to have the doctor tell one all is OK is one of the problems with health care....not necessary expenses. They do it because medicare will pay for it. That in itself is not a reason to go to the doctor to get the results.

btk

[Russ_Boston]

3-4 meds?

I'll tell you from actual experience as an RN at TVRH that people who are inpatients at the hospital average MUCH more than 3 home meds. It's rare if anyone over the age of 50 has 2 or less. Many, many have 10 or more!

I'm not saying it's wrong or right - just letting you know my experience over the past 8 months at TVRH.

And PS > My personal doc up north (and so far down here) has never, ever left my room to talk to a RX rep. I know for a fact that he made them come on a certain day, at a certain time. And he gave all all of the 'free' samples to those people who could use a break (money wise).

[jimbo2012]

3-4 meds?

I'll tell you from actual experience as an RN at TVRH that people who are inpatients at the hospital average MUCH more than 3 home meds. It's rare if anyone over the age of 50 has 2 or less. Many, many have 10 or more!


If over 50 taking 2 or less is rare, what is over 60 taking none?

[Russ_Boston]

If over 50 taking 2 or less is rare, what is over 60 taking none?
Not sure what you are asking. My point is that people over the age of 50 in TVRH (vast majority of my patients are 70 or so) take many, many meds. And yes the older they are the more pills they seem to take. I don't think I've had one patient yet over the age of 60 with no home meds.

[jimbo2012]

Russ what I'm saying is my wife & I take no meds, so you're saying that's unheard of in your practice, interesting

Can I ask what R the most used drugs treating ie: BP, cholesterol etc.

Also is there a correlation of number of meds and obesity?

[manaboutown]

Not sure what you are asking. My point is that people over the age of 50 in TVRH (vast majority of my patients are 70 or so) take many, many meds. And yes the older they are the more pills they seem to take. I don't think I've had one patient yet over the age of 60 with no home meds.

I am 70 years of age and take no meds. I get a check up about once a year and all is well, so far..

[graciegirl]

Russ what I'm saying is my wife & I take no meds, so you're saying that's unheard of in your practice, interesting

Can I ask what R the most used drugs treating ie: BP, cholesterol etc.

Also is there a correlation of number of meds and obesity?

I have asked several times for your age, Jimbo. That makes a big difference in a lot of things. I am guessing you are in your early fifties. Am I correct? I didn't take any meds when I was in my early fifties.

Your diet isn't the total answer to good health, no matter how much YOU believe it is. There is NO shame in taking medicine to maintain your health. It goes without saying that just about every person I have ever met knows that an optimum weight and a healthy exercise regimen is important to maintaining good health together with a varied low fat diet containing a lot of fruits and vegetables and small portions of meat/protein.

HOW OLD ARE YOU? I am 72.

There is no doubt that the most prescribed drugs are for hypertension and to lower cholesterol. Those drugs are prolonging our lives. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Russ_Boston]

I have asked several times for your age, Jimbo. That makes a big difference in a lot of things. I am guessing you are in your early fifties. Am I correct? I didn't take any meds when I was in my early fifties.

Your diet isn't the total answer to good health, no matter how much YOU believe it is. There is NO shame in taking medicine to maintain your health. It goes without saying that just about every person I have ever met knows that an optimum weight and a healthy exercise regimen is important to maintaining good health together with a varied low fat diet containing a lot of fruits and vegetables and small portions of meat/protien.

HOW OLD ARE YOU? I am 72.

There is no doubt that the most prescribed drugs are for hypertension and to lower cholesterol. Those drugs are prolonging our lives. I don't see anything wrong with that.

All great points Gracie (and BTW you look marvelous for 72!).

Yes I would say BP is the number 1 med category (ACE inhibitors etc.). Then drugs for AFIB or other heart rate issues (Beta blockers, CCB etc.). Then statins for cholesterol. Then thyroid issues (synthroid etc.). And a surprising number of men with ED meds.

People also take many non-RX meds like Baby aspirin, Vit C,D,E,multi, PPI (think Prilosec generic).

I've had many patients with over 15 meds.

[Bonnevie]

I would say the most meds I see are for blood pressure and/or cardiac related illnesses--most of them also end up on statin drugs for cholesterol, diabetes--lots of people with type II (used to be called adult onset), and smokers end up with several inhalers for copd

[Down Sized]

Im 63 and take no meds at all. I do take supplements such as fish oil, vitamin D, and low dose aspirin. I eat right and ride my bicycle 2 hours a day five days a week. I'm like most people, I would like to go to Panera or McDonalds every morning. Eat pizza two or three times a week or go to Sonny's BBQ and get daily specials all you can eat $9.99 but I don't because there would be a price to pay (3 -10 meds a day.) Mostly dew to overweight conditions and obesity. A third of people my age are obese. With that causes many medical problems.

[jimbo2012]

I have asked several times for your age, Jimbo.

HOW OLD ARE YOU? I am 72.



As I said I'll tell you when we meet maybe 9/21.

All great points Gracie (and BTW you look marvelous for 72!).

Yes I would say BP is the number 1 med category (ACE inhibitors etc.). Then drugs for AFIB or other heart rate issues (Beta blockers, CCB etc.). Then statins for cholesterol. Then thyroid issues (synthroid etc.). And a surprising number of men with ED meds.

People also take many non-RX meds like Baby aspirin, Vit C,D,E,multi, PPI (think Prilosec generic).

I've had many patients with over 15 meds.

Do you mention (or in fact believe yourself) that BP, cholesterol and ED, can be corrected with diet.

Yes I said ED.


.

[lightworker888]

"We are what we eat". That being said, each person comes to their understanding of that in their own time. If you have been raised with that understanding, then it is easier to make food choices based more on health than on gustatory preferences.

In many cultures, food is a central focus and preparation and ritual is very important and I am sure that it is harder for many of those raised in that type of environment to make food choices based on health, until there is some personal reason that sends them in that direction.

For many people, as we get older, unless there is some compelling reason to change our practice, it isn't a priority for us and it is often viewed as depravation, particularly if we have been raised with food (especially something sweet) as a reward.

At 70 and 72 my DH and I have not taken any meds for over 30 years and for me that includes aspirin. As a matter of fact the only prescriptive thing I ever remember taking is 1/4 Valium on my doctor's insistence, for a few weeks after my first husband died.

We do use homeopathic remedies and flower essences when we feel the need for some additional support and I suppose that could be construed as medicinal. I am just thankful that we have had the experience and opportunity to walk a different path.

However I recognize that each person comes to his/her own decision about what to eat and what to take and there is no one size fits all path. More important is feeling good about the choices you are making and joyfully eating whatever you are choosing.

Some experts have said that the attitude with which you eat is more important than what you eat and I believe there is truth in that too and goes a long way in living a happy life, which is, after all is said and done, the goal of each of us. I think.

Bon Appetit!

LW888

[Down Sized]

[QUOTE=jimbo2012;548251]As I said I'll tell you when we meet maybe 9/21.



Do you mention (or in fact believe yourself) that BP, cholesterol and ED, can be corrected with diet.

Yes I said ED.


.[/QUOTE

For sure. I'm living proof of that. I weighed 268 lbs. When I went for a health screening the year I retired my glucose and cholesterol was red lining. The nurse asked if I was taking any BP medicine. When I said no, all she said was you need to.
After retiring instead of going on all the medicines I changed all eating habits, started exercising every day. Now my weight is 182 and all vitals are normal. All just from loosing the fat.

[graciegirl]

As I said I'll tell you when we meet maybe 9/21.






.

Well, I have to think you are much younger. Your son is in college. Our grandson is in college. Age does make a difference in health and 20 years makes a LOT of difference.

[jimbo2012]

Never said my son was in college???
I'm older than you're thinking. :a20:

[graciegirl]

Never said my son was in college???
I'm older than you're thinking. :a20:

Didn't you tell us he was studying law?

[jimbo2012]

several years ago he was, sorry for the confusion, he has his own practice.

[Down Sized]

several years ago he was, sorry for the confusion, he has his own practice.

He probably is still studying law then:pepper2:

[Russ_Boston]

As I said I'll tell you when we meet maybe 9/21.



Do you mention (or in fact believe yourself) that BP, cholesterol and ED, can be corrected with diet.

Yes I said ED.


.

I do think that diet and exercise play a vital role in your health. I wouldn't be much of a nurse if I didn't think that way. And yes sometimes these conditions can be corrected by this alone (especially when they are accompanied by a large weight loss - just watch Biggest Loser). But there are many people who have unexplained high BP or heart arrhythmia that would die (or die younger) without medications.

[gomoho]

Well said Gracie...

[Barefoot]

Your diet isn't the total answer to good health, no matter how much YOU believe it is. There is NO shame in taking medicine to maintain your health. It goes without saying that just about every person I have ever met knows that an optimum weight and a healthy exercise regimen is important to maintaining good health together with a varied low fat diet containing a lot of fruits and vegetables and small portions of meat/protein.

There is no doubt that the most prescribed drugs are for hypertension and to lower cholesterol. Those drugs are prolonging our lives. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Well said GG and Russ Boston.

[Villages PL]

I have asked several times for your age, Jimbo. That makes a big difference in a lot of things. I am guessing you are in your early fifties. Am I correct? I didn't take any meds when I was in my early fifties.

When I first moved to the Villages my neighbors said the same thing to me when I told them I didn't take any medications. They said, "wait 'til you get older." I was only about 60 or 61. That was so frustrating because I knew I was doing the right thing, diet wise. Today I'm 71 and still don't need medication. But can I tell them I was right? No, they have all passed away.

Your diet isn't the total answer to good health, no matter how much YOU believe it is.

It may not be the total answer for various reasons. Most people won't do it
so how can it be the total answer, or even a partial answer?

There is NO shame in taking medicine to maintain your health.

If you have to because you reject dietary measures, well, then I guess you have to take medication.

It goes without saying that just about every person I have ever met knows that an optimum weight and a healthy exercise regimen is important to maintaining good health together with a varied low fat diet containing a lot of fruits and vegetables and small portions of meat/protein.

I guess you are speaking for everyone because you have presumably met a lot of people. And if they all knew what was best, most likely everyone else does too. And that's how you know what's best. Right?

[jimbo2012]

Nicely said, I can only add

“We should focus on diet, not drugs.”

[Villages PL]

3-4 meds?

I'll tell you from actual experience as an RN at TVRH that people who are inpatients at the hospital average MUCH more than 3 home meds. It's rare if anyone over the age of 50 has 2 or less. Many, many have 10 or more!

I'm not saying it's wrong or right - just letting you know my experience over the past 8 months at TVRH.

Thanks for your insight on this topic. It doesn't match up with the information that was given at the first USF lecture. Perhaps it's because people who get admitted to the hospital have greater health issues than the average person who doesn't need hospitalization.


My opinion: I see a progression that starts with the standard American diet. Poor diet, like smoking, can take several decades to bring about poor health. So, when some health issue developes, people don't see it as a failure on their part because all they did was eat the standard diet like everyone else. So why change anything? Most people continue eating the same diet.

With the same diet, it's only a matter of time before another drug gets added for something else. At age 65, 9 out of 10 people take at least one medication. By around 70 it might be 2. By age 75 the average is 3 to 4 medications, and 5 or more is not uncommon.

It's not unlike smoking, drinking or gambling addiction, in that it starts with one and then progresses (i.e., one cigarette, one drink or one gamble). So when we hear about 10 to 15 medications, it's just further evidence of the future direction for the average drug taking senior.

[Down Sized]

Let's face it. Some people are just self destructive. Whether its food, alcohol, or cigarettes. Thay know it's all bad, BUT ;;;:loco:

[Villages PL]

Let's face it. Some people are just self destructive. Whether its food, alcohol, or cigarettes. Thay know it's all bad, BUT ;;;:loco:

Thanks, you made me laugh with the Loco icon at the end. :wave:

[Russ_Boston]

Thanks for your insight on this topic. It doesn't match up with the information that was given at the first USF lecture. Perhaps it's because people who get admitted to the hospital have greater health issues than the average person who doesn't need hospitalization.


Remember I deal with locals as well as Villagers. And many patients in the hospital are not there for the first time.

[jimbo2012]

A common problem in illegal drug and device marketing cases is doctors’ willingness to delude themselves into thinking that cash, lucrative trips and other kickbacks do not affect them, said Mr. Morris, the chief counsel.

“Somehow physicians think they’re different from the rest of us,” Mr. Morris said. “But money works on them just like everybody else.”

Mr. Sullivan, the United States attorney, said officials hoped to send a strong message to doctors. “I have been shocked at what appears to be willful blindness by folks in the physician community to the criminal conduct that corrupts the patient-physician relationship,” he said

Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/health/policy/04doctors.html?_r=1) NY Times full article

[Mikeod]

A common problem in illegal drug and device marketing cases is doctors’ willingness to delude themselves into thinking that cash, lucrative trips and other kickbacks do not affect them, said Mr. Morris, the chief counsel.

“Somehow physicians think they’re different from the rest of us,” Mr. Morris said. “But money works on them just like everybody else.”

Mr. Sullivan, the United States attorney, said officials hoped to send a strong message to doctors. “I have been shocked at what appears to be willful blindness by folks in the physician community to the criminal conduct that corrupts the patient-physician relationship,” he said

Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/health/policy/04doctors.html?_r=1) NY Times full article
A rather simple fix was/is employed by the medical group I worked for. Pharmaceutical reps had no access to the providers directly. They met with the chief pharmacists at the medical centers. A pharmacy board consisting of pharmacists and physicians met regionally to discuss each medication. Only after evaluation of the cost/benefit/effectiveness/safety of a med could it be added to our formulary. To be added, a med had to have demonstrated in independent studies or in-house trials that there were significant advantages over one already in use.

The pharmacy department also controlled samples, and distributed them to the appropriate departments as needed.

Our members would often ask for particular meds they saw advertised on TV. If there was a compelling advantage/reason for a non-formulary med for that particular patient, it would be prescribed. But the pharmacy tracked non-formulary requests and they were reviewed for appropriateness.

Our providers were prohibited from accepting gifts from pharmaceutical companies. If they were to speak at meetings about a particular medication or procedure, they were only allowed to accept a small honorarium in addition to actual expenses as they were still receiving their regular salary while away. This also had to be reported to the medical group and was tracked.

[Villages PL]

Remember I deal with locals as well as Villagers. And many patients in the hospital are not there for the first time.

When people come back again and again, I assume it's often because of end-of-life situations like advanced lung cancer or emphysema. Is that correct?
And do they come mostly from nursing homes?

[graciegirl]

I can think of a lot of reasons why the same people would return to the hospital again and again. Diabetic episodes. Brain bleeds. Kidney stones. All of those have caused repeated hospitalizations for friends.
Chronic inflammatory colitis... alcoholism causes bleeding. Addiction to prescription drugs. Falls. Infectious diseases. People over the age of 55 have a high incidence of pneumonia.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/0115/p257.html

[jimbo2012]

That link was 12 years old, here's one (http://www.aarp.org/health/doctors-hospitals/info-03-2012/hospital-admissions-older-adults.html) a bit more recent.

Not sure why you included kidney stones?

Hospitals don't do much for them and they occur in younger adults as well.

Cardiac is number one.

[graciegirl]

That link was 12 years old, here's one (http://www.aarp.org/health/doctors-hospitals/info-03-2012/hospital-admissions-older-adults.html) a bit more recent.

Not sure why you included kidney stones?

Hospitals don't do much for them and they occur in younger adults as well.

Cardiac is number one.

People who have kidney stones are admitted because of the heavy pain medication that must be administered and observed. Kidney stones can be chronic and can be caused by diet.

[jimbo2012]

Also they can occur as a side affect to certain meds.

[Villages PL]

Can better diet make people healthy? Maybe....maybe not. Again I will state that some bodies will not tolerate some foods, foods that might need to be ingested to help a body get needed And necessary nutrients.

When I recommend a certain diet, I'm targeting those who can tolerate all or most foods. Just like the government's food pyramid (It may be called food-steps now). Not that I approve of all of the governments recommendations. But the point is this: They make recommendations whether or not it will suit everyone.

If we were to live in a world where no one could make recommendations unless they suited everyone, where would we be? The field of nutrition would be set back to what date in history?

[pooh]

Also they can occur as a side affect to certain meds.

Or sometimes, calcium supplements.

[Villages PL]

To me, your view of a treatment plan is too narrow. When a patient enters a clinic for help with an existing problem, they want that problem to go away. An effective treatment plan, for that patient, has to address both the underlying cause of the symptoms and the symptoms themselves. While there may be a long term benefit from alterations in lifestyle, including diet, if those recommendations do not provide near term relief of the symptoms, the patient will decide that the provider has not helped them. And they will decide to not follow the long term treatment plan, no matter how much the provider extolls the benefits.

I never suggested it should be all about lifestyle. I'm simply trying to point out that right now it's mostly one sided in favor of medications and operations. I had hoped this issue would be addressed by the health alliance but it wasn't addressed in any significant way. It seems the health alliance was set up by medical doctors for medical doctors.

This is not the way to make The Villages "Americas healthiest hometown". At least it won't do it in any significant way. The way it is now, it just amounts to tinkering around the edges.

[jannd228]

You must remember that some people on meds arrived here on those meds and some medications should not stopped without review of the prescribing physician. Some drugs contraindicate certain foods being ingested.
Can better diet make people healthy? Maybe....maybe not. Again I will state that some bodies will not tolerate some foods, foods that might need to be ingested to help a body get needed And necessary nutrients.

Learning to eat foods that are nutritious is something we all might benefit from, but no matter what you say or I say, we all live in a manner we've learned, adjusted to. Some recognize they need to do something to make life better for them....for some it's weight loss, for some, it's exercise, for others, it's diet. In order to do anything, people need to WANT to do something. If they decide to forgo what some consider the road to good health, well, they must deal with the consequences of their decision. Health care is there to help people in need, be they suffering from obesity, COPD, heart or vascular disease, a broken leg or bacterial infection. Physicians take an oath to provide care to all who come to them. They aren't necessarily trained in advanced nutrition. They can make recommendations, but it is up to the patient to either take the advice or not.

I would never contradict another, BUT, everyone needs to remember that the health care industry is now the health care tax industry, or what they always were a business. I lived in MA until recently, my experience with the doctors was not only horrifying but humiliating. MA has the mandated health care, which is in my opinion a mess. You need to know what they are doing, why they are doing it and how much profit they are making.

You have to let go of the concept that the PCPs are there to help you, they aren't. They are mandated what to order for tests, prescriptions and care. I contracted Aspergillosis while caring for an elderly man whose family had abandoned him. It is an infection from an allergic reaction to mold or in my case penicillium or penicillin. When you hear about people who burn their houses down because of mold, pay attention that is the only way to get rid of it. I am healing because I am now in the care of an alternative physician whose specialty is this rare condition. If you are taking multiple meds, read what they are for, do not take anything anyone tells you for granted. Just my 2 cents worth.